Mentally Oddcast Transcript: Artist & Guy Who Lives with Chronic Insomnia Brian MagGregor.
Hear an audio version of this podcast here.
Learn more about our guest here.
00:00:01.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
You are listening to The Mentally Oddcast. My name is Wednesday Lee Friday, and with us this week we have Brian McGregor, who is a nationally recognized fine artist and muralist who owns a gallery in the center of downtown Savannah, that's the one in Georgia.
00:00:18.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
He graduated from SCAD and I just had it pulled up what SCAD is and then I deleted it. So i'm but I'm a genius. We'll go over that later. But he has an illustration degree in his.
00:00:31.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
And his romantic surrealism oil paintings are inspired by the collective unconscious, utilizing thousands of handwritten dreams collected over two decades, collaged into the backgrounds of his fine art paintings. That's amazing. His large scale public art projects can be seen. across the southeast on shopping center buildings, city properties, private residences, including a 5 ,000 square foot Subaru dealership ceiling. And we're totally going to talk about that later. Welcome, Brian.
00:01:05.79
Brian MacGregor
Well thank you for having me.
00:01:07.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
Thanks for being here. And I want to let everyone know, um just to give some context about guests, because I have all sorts of different relationships with the guests on this show. You are someone who I do not know in real life.
00:01:20.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
I saw your art online and I super liked it. And then I looked over your profile and saw, hey, that guy's neurodivergent to an extent. So I'm going to see if he wants to be on the show.
00:01:32.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then I was one of those. annoying people that friend someone on Facebook and then immediately sends a message asking for something, which, you know.
00:01:40.55
Brian MacGregor
Oh, man. So what gave it away? i have to be I'm curious.
00:01:44.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
um i I think it was. there I think it was... ah
00:01:49.89
Brian MacGregor
It's just inherent.
00:01:50.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean... and
00:01:51.01
Brian MacGregor
Okay.
00:01:51.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well on the one hand if I see artists that I like if an art ah an art piece speaks to me, odds are the person is neurodivergent in one way or another, because that's just the kind of art that speaks to me. But maybe maybe I just got lucky.
00:02:06.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, yay, neurodivergence. Because honestly, that's one of the... the trickiest parts of the show i've been doing it for a while now and i still haven't found a good way to approach a stranger and be like, hey, what kind of nuts are you?
00:02:20.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
like what what is what What is it that hinders you from? You know, I don't really know how to phrase that. Some people get offended when they're asked if they're neurodivergent. Like what? You think there's something wrong with me?
00:02:31.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like.
00:02:32.16
Brian MacGregor
Yeah, I can definitely see that Saying what kind of crazy are you could be taken as a really fun kind of conversation starter or or not.
00:02:32.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know
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Wednesday Lee Friday
and
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Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:02:43.09
Brian MacGregor
Amen.
00:02:42.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
depending on what kind of crazy they are, right?
00:02:44.98
Brian MacGregor
Yes, exactly. Yeah.
00:02:47.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
Um. Generally speaking though, we do like to start by asking guests to tell us about the first horror movie that they remember seeing. So what's yours?
00:02:59.04
Brian MacGregor
Sure. Well, because... I listened ahead of time to your podcast and. figured this out. Of course, I have several answers. i have the uh
00:03:08.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:03:09.94
Brian MacGregor
The literal answer. So that would be Gremlins. so i saw that i think i had probably like four maybe
00:03:14.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice.
00:03:17.13
Brian MacGregor
uh And. Yeah, so. You know. a mom takes it i eventually fall asleep all that stuff and you probably know that kremlins ah Because...
00:03:28.85
Brian MacGregor
It would make it McDonald's, right? So they had a toy line. for it so people thought it was a kids movie and that's why it was there Barely. And um so that movie is why, fun fact.
00:03:40.99
Brian MacGregor
while we have the rating system that we have. today.
00:03:44.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
the The PG-13 rating, yep.
00:03:44.51
Brian MacGregor
Before it was just... Yeah, because it was just like NC-17 or something before. And then, so then they broke it down.
00:03:50.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, it went it went
00:03:50.96
Brian MacGregor
and then
00:03:51.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
It went right from PG to R. and so people decided that they needed something in between because that and i think temple of doom was the other movie that was used as an example of of why we had the rating because you don't necessarily
00:03:54.87
Brian MacGregor
Yeah, okay.
00:04:05.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
want to restrict kids from seeing a movie like that without their parents because you know certainly a kid of 12 or 13 could conceive a ble handle a movie like gremlins but you also don't want to send the message like hey bring your kindergartner they'll they'll love it because they may not love it
00:04:23.86
Brian MacGregor
So now the horror movie that first scared me.
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Wednesday Lee Friday
Because, you know, gremlins.
00:04:28.10
Brian MacGregor
Okay. So now that would be put in the theater. So that's Pet Sematary 2.
00:04:32.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:04:34.77
Brian MacGregor
So, nineteen ninety yeah, 1992 with a like a friend and...
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Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh wow.
00:04:38.93
Brian MacGregor
And friend's dad. uh but yeah not appropriate for an 11 year old Oh, really? Scared the crap out of me. Giving me night terrors for the first time.
00:04:46.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
wow
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Brian MacGregor
that was That's a really...
00:04:48.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow. And you know,
00:04:50.12
Brian MacGregor
i've I've seen clips again like recently. It's like, wow, that's a really scary movie, actually. And like I'm not frightened by horror movies today.
00:04:56.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
Is.
00:04:58.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
hu Yeah, that that's a creepy one.
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Brian MacGregor
Yeah.
00:05:00.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's an interesting answer.
00:05:01.60
Brian MacGregor
Yeah.
00:05:01.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
I've never i've never gotten that answer. um Now, I want to talk a little bit about sharks, because the first ah work of yours that I saw was a shark.
00:05:08.71
Brian MacGregor
Uh huh.
00:05:11.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I actually think of sharks as being horror movie characters, first and foremost, which is not really fair to to sharks. But I was a toddler when Jaws came out, so it was the most terrifying thing I'd ever seen.
00:05:24.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
But what are your feelings about sharks, like in a general sense?
00:05:28.50
Brian MacGregor
Oh, in in a general sense, I mean, from the movie sense. you know because yeah i was also pretty young when i saw jaws and it Also scared them. crudowny too Um, But in... in The wide open sense, I mean.
00:05:43.79
Brian MacGregor
Shirts get a bad rap. ah They're basically dinosaurs. Right. um
00:05:49.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm.
00:05:50.38
Brian MacGregor
like But they don't really kill that many people. like Hippos kill. far more people. Right.
00:05:57.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
00:05:57.57
Brian MacGregor
Like that. uh But ah yeah, I mean, if I saw one. at the beach or something. new I would definitely be frightened and kind of want to get away from it. but In general, no, they're they're wonderful.
00:06:10.03
Brian MacGregor
amazing creatures that Clean up the... Clean up the dead. so to speak.
00:06:15.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice, nice Now, a lot of your art does feature various kinds of ocean creatures. In addition to sharks, I've seen whales, ah an octopus. um what ah What, why ocean creatures?
00:06:29.73
Brian MacGregor
You know... ah Well, I do have a fascination with them. I do think they look kind of alien. uh and i do kind of like um that sort of surreal nature of of ah creatures like that, especially like oceanic creatures.
00:06:43.57
Brian MacGregor
I would say another part of it's practical. So I do live on the coast. um So I do li like. No. On the beach, I live downtown. ah in a victorian house here but like um The beach isn't far, so Tybee is not far and we go all the time.
00:06:59.44
Brian MacGregor
So I think part of it, too, is that that's a theme.
00:07:00.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:07:02.81
Brian MacGregor
Here's to that stuff. Ready. to like ain't kind of thing.
00:07:08.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. Yeah, that's interesting because I'm in Michigan, so sure, sure.
00:07:10.50
Brian MacGregor
but That's the practical answer. I guess.
00:07:13.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, we're at where I am, wherere we're surrounded by water. and ah But i'm I'm kind of inland, you know, Ann Arbor isn't like really. Shore adjacent. um but um What was I gonna say? I had a thought and then it it escaped my head.
00:07:32.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
um But yeah, you mentioned ocean creatures looking kind of alien. and and that And that is certainly true, especially like the deeper you go. And the interesting thing is that.
00:07:44.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
The earth is mostly water. There's a whole lot more water than land. And yet. Maybe like we're the ones that are alien? You know, like if, if fish would.
00:07:53.15
Brian MacGregor
Oh. Comparatively speaking, numbers wise, for sure. Yeah.
00:07:57.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and like if fish were to perceive us, they would be like, wow, you're slow and lumbering and you just. kind of hobble around on those two sticks. What's that about? You know, like they would probably think that we're equally weird.
00:08:12.86
Brian MacGregor
Most certainly. And I mean, I would say too with that.
00:08:14.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now.
00:08:16.11
Brian MacGregor
That alien part. back to the horror movies. So the horror movie I love. would be Alien. an alien so that's my first like kind of um
00:08:24.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice.
00:08:28.23
Brian MacGregor
I would say like. Probably saw that maybe when I was eight in my brother's room and his like tiny. TV. back in the day late at night or something he was out of town and like i watched that and and i was not scared by i was just enthralled by
00:08:35.100
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:08:41.73
Brian MacGregor
the artistry. of it at as a child and like hooked immediately into that hrd gear and getting inspired by all of that kind of stuff so Anything within that kind of... um and realistic.
00:08:57.29
Brian MacGregor
creatures. that makes sense in their environment. I think from the design standpoint, I find really interesting.
00:09:06.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and Giger, I mean, it's he's so fascinating.
00:09:06.55
Brian MacGregor
So.
00:09:09.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
There was like so much to see. And as a child, discovering Yeager must have been kind of wild because a lot of his art is like. phallic and and sort of it's all like tied up with with sex things.
00:09:24.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
00:09:25.31
Brian MacGregor
Yeah, yeah um
00:09:25.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then. It's alien.
00:09:28.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh go ahead.
00:09:29.14
Brian MacGregor
I didn't see it that. No, no, that's fine. um i can kind of see past that sort of stuff it's interesting So I grew up on going to sci-fi conventions. There's one in Baltimore. So I grew up in Richmond, Virginia.
00:09:43.04
Brian MacGregor
And we went to Baltimore, Balticon. every year. Actually, since the year I was born. ti Click. you know. when I went to college. And.
00:09:51.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:09:52.10
Brian MacGregor
so i was exposed to really kind of crazy movies and like really interesting like sci-fi not just sci-fi movies but horror movies as well and Just a lot. I was exposed to a lot of...
00:10:04.86
Brian MacGregor
Um, Pretty far out there. creative thinking. kind of stuff. so When I saw it. Giger's work, even as a kid, like I wasn't frightened by it. What I saw was a really good artist.
00:10:18.09
Brian MacGregor
That's... That's what I saw. I saw really cool artwork.
00:10:20.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:10:20.95
Brian MacGregor
and That kind of thing. so I get it. You know, so it's weird as an adult. ah Looking back at some of his... paintings and stuff now and books and whatnot that I have. More. I can be more.
00:10:36.09
Brian MacGregor
um thrown off by it Now that I did then which I kind of find interesting.
00:10:42.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, it makes sense because like just taking Alien as an example, the xenomorph itself, when you watch that movie, it's difficult to. really parse like what you're seeing what kind of animal it is how does it move what is it because it seems it It seems like, it well, it is small at first and and sort of.
00:11:05.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know, like larval and then as it gets bigger it's harder and harder to tell but then by the end when it's on the outside and it's trying to get back into the ship, you know, after Ripley blasted out of the the shuttle.
00:11:21.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
I remember just being struck by the thought of like...
00:11:22.29
Brian MacGregor
Right.
00:11:24.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
oh that's it's a dude in a suit like the whole movie i'm like is that is that puppetry like what are because there wasn't cgi yet so it's like what is that how are they doing it oh it's a person
00:11:28.22
Brian MacGregor
Yeah.
00:11:34.35
Brian MacGregor
No, yeah. yeah yeah
00:11:39.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
it's So...
00:11:40.04
Brian MacGregor
Yeah, and the...
00:11:40.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's...
00:11:40.70
Brian MacGregor
the i think what struck me to as so ah the design but the life cycle of the creature is really what
00:11:46.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. Yep.
00:11:47.56
Brian MacGregor
Um, just makes it... so realistic. as something that...
00:11:53.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
00:11:54.47
Brian MacGregor
Good. actually exist out there and kind of makes it as a creature. a far off in deep space that... Yeah. Bye. You know, the the eggs could.
00:12:05.49
Brian MacGregor
thr Sure, they could thrive for a thousand years on this ship, on this planet. Why not? Until it was like a... you know uncovered by somebody and that it wakes up and then this creature comes out of it mean we have things we have like ah viruses and things on earth that would ah also do the same thing.
00:12:23.73
Brian MacGregor
so it's kind of a
00:12:24.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, yeah, as earth people, we are used to the like egg larva pupa adult. trend transition we're used to you know like there were those worms in the in in Antarctica and they Thought they were dead, but then they woke them up, and they're like these black worms that can kind of move through the ice like a regular worm moves through soil.
00:12:41.13
Brian MacGregor
Right.
00:12:46.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, okay, so... Aliens aren't ridiculous. They're just not what we're used to seeing because we live in cities and towns, you know? So. Yeah.
00:12:58.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's a... it's It's wild because while things seem alien and foreign, there is also a familiarity to that, which I think is how it it grounds the viewer.
00:13:10.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
into the fear, you know because it it doesn't seem ridiculous. It seems plausible, but just not what we're used to.
00:13:20.28
Brian MacGregor
Right. Yeah, and and so... Things like this. is From going to Balticon and being exposed to... all the art. And they would have... a lot of these especially the older ones and the new ones happen to the the conventions like this.
00:13:32.85
Brian MacGregor
I have an art gallery section. So where you can buy the art directly from the artist. And then also there's a guild hall kind of area where...
00:13:38.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep. yep
00:13:40.96
Brian MacGregor
people have tables set up and you can buy their wares but in the art gallery is really cool because that section. Generally, people are not. standing next to their work. It's just the artwork that's there.
00:13:52.67
Brian MacGregor
And so it's more of a... ah Not really traditional gallery sense. i wouldn't put it that way, because it's well like, you know. on. movable walls kind of stuff.
00:14:04.23
Brian MacGregor
But you can be exposed to...
00:14:04.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
Uh huh.
00:14:06.52
Brian MacGregor
real current. day illustrators. and artists in. especially in the 80s and 90s. Uh, where. There wasn't online. You could only find this stuff in magazines.
00:14:20.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
00:14:20.90
Brian MacGregor
It was really special.
00:14:20.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
00:14:22.38
Brian MacGregor
It was really, really special kind of time. To be able to kind of... get up close, and then also meet the meet the people. Because especially that one was a much smaller one. I would say more like... say 3 ,000 to 5 ,000 people, something like that.
00:14:34.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh wow.
00:14:35.34
Brian MacGregor
Um, As opposed to Dragon Con, which could be like... If you're familiar with that. In Atlanta.
00:14:41.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
00:14:41.60
Brian MacGregor
ah that's you know could I don't know the numbers, but 80 to 100 ,000 or something.
00:14:46.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm. Well, I know you gotta to get a hotel a year in advance or you're gonna miss it.
00:14:50.48
Brian MacGregor
Yes.
00:14:50.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
So.
00:14:51.43
Brian MacGregor
Yes, exactly. Yeah.
00:14:54.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, all my friends are nerds, so i'm I'm... quite familiar with with those concepts my buddy uh met j .o bar at a at a comic con a while ago and it was the kind of experience where if you say the right thing to a famous illustrator they'll sit and talk with you for an hour if they can't if the line isn't super long or whatever so yeah
00:15:14.11
Brian MacGregor
Oh yeah, for sure. For sure. And that's the great.
00:15:16.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
And...
00:15:17.04
Brian MacGregor
kind of experience of that stuff.
00:15:18.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well...
00:15:19.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
And before the internet, that was really the only way that you could get access to these kinds of people. Because now it's totally different, you know? Because when I was a kid, if you wanted to talk to a famous person. The hardest part was tracking down an address for them. And you might have to go get like a Tiger Beat magazine or go to the library and ask the librarian to help you. You know, finding the address was a big deal. And then you had to think so much about what you wanted to say and how you were going to say it. And then you send the letter off and maybe you get a response and maybe you don't.
00:15:52.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
But now it's just like, oh, Stephen King's on Twitter. where He says something that makes me mad. So I'm going to go tell him he's an a-hole. Like, no, that's not what this discourse is supposed to be.
00:16:00.70
Brian MacGregor
Yeah.
00:16:02.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
Or or is it?
00:16:03.11
Brian MacGregor
Exactly.
00:16:03.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
are we does Does it help us to not put these people on pedophiles now that we know what they have for dinner every night because they tell us? Like, I don't know. I don't know what the answer is. but
00:16:14.37
Brian MacGregor
Right, yeah.
00:16:14.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
but it's certainly different than it was when we were kids.
00:16:15.06
Brian MacGregor
i mean it
00:16:18.55
Brian MacGregor
It's definitely something that we have to kind of navigate. you know there's always the pluses and minuses of it when it comes to that kind of stuff like i try to for social media stuff anyway, from like...
00:16:24.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm.
00:16:28.77
Brian MacGregor
Thankfully, I meant. you through it right from doing this so like i just Try to keep. my own. work that I'm posting out there. positive and kind of what I'm I guess my... goals.
00:16:42.77
Brian MacGregor
Right. Directing towards like, oh, what am I doing now? Et cetera, et cetera. As opposed to kind of like talking about. really kind of going towards political stuff kind of things because I don't know. It seems kind of pointless on my scale if I were super, super famous.
00:16:58.38
Brian MacGregor
uh person or something like that maybe uh maybe it would make a difference kind of thing but I find. It's... I personally find.
00:17:09.28
Brian MacGregor
I make. a better Kind of like. i guess i should say like moving the needle of where I want things to go. just by kind of showing what I want to put out there into the world.
00:17:24.15
Brian MacGregor
Yeah.
00:17:24.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. So you don't you don't talk about politics or sociopolitics publicly?
00:17:32.10
Brian MacGregor
Yeah, not really. I mean, like personally, I do. Yeah. for sure. Um,
00:17:36.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
but But not in in relation to your art. Like if you have an art page, it's not going to have politics on it.
00:17:39.70
Brian MacGregor
I... I don't. I don't. Yeah, I did for a little bit there, said something about like a... for when Georgia went. blue and i was like oh great cool i just posted a picture of the back of somebody's truck that had that i was like oh Right all on. Kudos.
00:17:54.64
Brian MacGregor
Um, And go. you know, some flack and stuff from it. And then I just realized. I... You probably know the quote of like artists are dangerous because they know.
00:18:05.57
Brian MacGregor
Um, everybody in society. Right. Because they mingle with...
00:18:08.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep. Yep.
00:18:10.52
Brian MacGregor
all levels of society. And.
00:18:13.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm.
00:18:13.33
Brian MacGregor
I have friends that I know people of. The whole spectrum. I mean... All of the spectrums. And... Oh. From you name it, you know, to...
00:18:25.89
Brian MacGregor
Great. neurodivergent to gay, straight, left, right. middle to everything i do i talk to you and deal with everybody And.
00:18:37.44
Brian MacGregor
So I'm not trying to... push anybody off because I kind of feel like we all actually have the same. goals in mind. We just have a different way of getting there. Now, there will be a couple of people that I don't agree with that are just going to go down the route of.
00:18:53.29
Brian MacGregor
um saying certain people shouldn't exist. So now that's... Not cool. But.
00:18:59.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, you know, it's a tricky thing because I think 10 years ago, I probably would have agreed.
00:19:01.10
Brian MacGregor
ah
00:19:06.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
that most people want basically the same things that people want to be happy and safe and not
00:19:12.94
Brian MacGregor
Mm-hmm Mm-hmm.
00:19:13.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
Desperate, you know, people want a solid foundation. They want to know where their next meal is coming from, a nice place to live, safety, you know. but After watching a whole lot of people vote their livelihoods and their health away in order to make sure that a trans kid can't play school sports.
00:19:33.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, I'm not trying to draw you into a political discussion, but I'm saying that for me, it's it's much more difficult.
00:19:37.81
Brian MacGregor
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah
00:19:40.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
to stay silent in the face of that. But that might always also be why I'm i'm relatively unsuccessful and extremely poor.
00:19:44.97
Brian MacGregor
Exactly.
00:19:50.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because... If I feel like someone should go fuck themselves, I'm. Probably, like, unless i'm I'm working customer service again. Which I hope to never do.
00:20:01.20
Brian MacGregor
It's kind of like...
00:20:01.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
00:20:02.27
Brian MacGregor
People, when when people notice you. as being a hopefully Notice he was being a good example. and then they kind of be around you and then have a quiet conversation on the side with you it becomes...
00:20:14.63
Brian MacGregor
more approachable in a sense and you can kind of change minds i kind of feel like with a lot of that unfortunately in our Past election stuff. It's more like. a You know, they just twisted people. They used people.
00:20:28.44
Brian MacGregor
you know, the scare people, scare tactics. So they got people that. would probably not think that way to think that Yeah. Now be frightened of the other. Quote. I don't see them as necessarily bad people because I live ah you know live in the South.
00:20:42.78
Brian MacGregor
Just see it as a... Naivete. Thank you. I guess so, in one sense. They're ah redeemable, I guess is what I'm trying to get at.
00:20:52.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow. um I hope you're right. I'm in the north, so it's it's kind of a different... situation. um I'm intrigued by what you said about leading by example and then having the conversation quietly.
00:21:06.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
because that is not my approach. But I can absolutely see the value in that now that you're saying it. that like Maybe the quiet cut because people Don't want to feel embarrassed.
00:21:19.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
A lot of people don't want to be called out publicly. If I do something fucked up, like if I publish an article and I get a very. obvious fact wrong or there's an enormous typo, I will be embarrassed. when people point it out and i've actually reacted badly to that in the past because my attitude is well why would you say that publicly why wouldn't you say it quietly but when it's politics It feels disingenuous.
00:21:46.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
to not be passionate and animated and and loud when it's it's stuff like people's rights. but But I think you're right. I think that that is not...
00:21:57.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
always the most effective way to go about it i can get very locked in the mindset of Well, you're hurting people and you're not stopping, so why don't you just go to hell?
00:22:08.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know Why should anyone bother with you?
00:22:08.99
Brian MacGregor
yeah and there's Yeah, there's a per I guess the persuasion argument kind of thing comes comes to it where... the calm conversation with individuals they go like well you know like there's a lot on the right have All of a sudden now they're...
00:22:24.72
Brian MacGregor
Fine with gay people. Yeah. they ah Well, i actually, I'm okay with this.
00:22:27.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, they...
00:22:29.97
Brian MacGregor
it This doesn't really bother me. Oh man, that is that leaps and bounds from where they were not that long ago.
00:22:36.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and maybe they're realizing what's what's actually important. And that those things don't matter as much.
00:22:41.14
Brian MacGregor
Yeah. Right right and and it's because and i think because more people are open and more people are out so then It's seen as, you know.
00:22:44.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
in In the...
00:22:51.06
Brian MacGregor
Anyhow. we've We've gotten down a tangent a little bit. but but it's good.
00:22:55.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh no, on a podcast?
00:22:55.81
Brian MacGregor
I think that's good.
00:22:57.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
Please, say it ain't so.
00:22:58.02
Brian MacGregor
Yeah, yeah. yeah yeah But I will say to bring it back to the art kind of aspect within this.
00:23:01.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well.
00:23:04.80
Brian MacGregor
uh So for me, kind of I collect people's dreams and I use that for my work. and i uh but this There's a time when that would. Bee. an extremely political act.
00:23:17.35
Brian MacGregor
you know be able to talk about that kind of stuff. And there's ah there's even times in my gallery where I i talk about to people and people some people feel really uncomfortable. It's interesting. I get both ends of the spectrum of people that uh when i talk about dreams that get like kind of weirded out and i i can see like through it their eyes into their mind that they Go to a dark place about dreams?
00:23:41.76
Brian MacGregor
And so they go like, oh, why would you do that? And suddenly they... uh they don't like the subject anymore they want to leave the gallery and then i have other people that come in they're like oh that's really cool and get really excited about it because their view of dreams.
00:23:56.98
Brian MacGregor
is from like a helpful, positive kind of place. And so...
00:24:01.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
How interesting.
00:24:03.74
Brian MacGregor
it It really is interesting. uh and it tells a lot about so psychologically about where these individual people are So in a sense, like it's.
00:24:14.55
Brian MacGregor
political in the sense of like i'm being who i am but i want to draw and paint. Um, positive things. i come I work from a positive place. I didn't always. So my work.
00:24:28.32
Brian MacGregor
ah initially was born out of more of a darker place and kind of started more black and white sepia tones and dark stuff But I've been drawing and painting now for my life. Ever since I was a child, I've done 500 something plus paintings in my life. So.
00:24:42.90
Brian MacGregor
I've grown through a lot of some of that stuff and i would like to still kind of do some dark stuff here and there but I like working from a... a positive place.
00:24:54.16
Brian MacGregor
into the work and then Many respects. That can also be seen as a political act. because in the high fine art world. um They want to do disgusting art.
00:25:05.29
Brian MacGregor
Disgusting art is what is hip and cool. So like the... um ripped open organ that's you know, pulsing. blood like onto the gallery floor.
00:25:15.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure.
00:25:17.57
Brian MacGregor
That's the high art. currently. you know, that's what's seen is, is amazing. So and in a way, like...
00:25:23.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, it's it's so Wild, because that that just speaks to what you were saying about...
00:25:23.80
Brian MacGregor
i
00:25:30.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
it not being necessary to be confrontational. Because the art that you're describing...
00:25:34.08
Brian MacGregor
o
00:25:35.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
is i mean a ripped open organ is highly confrontational it is daring you to look at it daring you to feel something about it
00:25:40.06
Brian MacGregor
yeah Yes.
00:25:43.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know, defying you to ignore it. And. While there certainly is value in that, I can also appreciate that not everyone wants to feel that way. And you might also like I'm a big proponent of trigger warnings.
00:25:58.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
though I imagine that's a little more difficult for visual art, but that people have a right to choose.
00:25:58.79
Brian MacGregor
oh Yes.
00:26:04.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
when and if they want to see something. you know So.
00:26:09.38
Brian MacGregor
Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, and I don't want to say, and also too, I want to... disclaimer in a sense i'm not saying that's probably kind of disgusting stuff is bad I'm not even saying that. I have... ah a viewpoint of open for all. work It just.
00:26:24.83
Brian MacGregor
That's not the direction in which I take mine. All right. personally. I could see the value of what people do with that, but like the shock art kind of thing.
00:26:35.75
Brian MacGregor
Can totally have its place and especially when you're trying to get a message across or a certain kind of. kind of thing Yeah. For me, I would say.
00:26:45.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure.
00:26:46.26
Brian MacGregor
my artwork. Personally, aside from I do like commercial work as well and and all this kind of stuff. but and within my fine art. It. does satisfy a need that I have. Like I can't.
00:26:59.57
Brian MacGregor
work a regular job. like i just I just can't.
00:27:02.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
oh
00:27:03.73
Brian MacGregor
i can't I can't I'm self-employed.
00:27:03.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
I get it.
00:27:06.86
Brian MacGregor
I've always been self-employed. Click. but I really like it that way. just I personally can't have a... ah how to say I can't have all...
00:27:18.01
Brian MacGregor
boss hanging over me. However, my clients don't feel like that. My clients don't feel like a boss.
00:27:22.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
00:27:22.97
Brian MacGregor
My clients that I'm talking to with, with stuff on like murals to like fine art stuff. They want to work with me. And it's not a...
00:27:34.62
Brian MacGregor
It's not a hierarchy in that sense. We're much more on like a similar plane. It's not one of us's.
00:27:39.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
00:27:40.52
Brian MacGregor
bigger than the other one. And so it becomes, I view it and...
00:27:42.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
00:27:44.46
Brian MacGregor
hopefully it comes across to the other person as a collaboration.
00:27:48.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm. Yep. Yep. i' ah you know I'm a writer and editor, so that speaks to me. The idea that having a boss and then maybe he has a boss, so he's not even making his own decisions and having there be just that whole like, well, maybe you could take a day off.
00:28:01.15
Brian MacGregor
ah Right.
00:28:05.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Maybe you can't. We'll get back to you. As opposed to just relating to someone like a human being and knowing that they respect you and your work, that they wouldn't replace you in a second if you were out the door.
00:28:18.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
So yeah, I totally get that. And I wish... That. Because to me, it feels more like the difference between a an underfunded public school and a Montessori school. Wait.
00:28:30.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know so maybe Maybe there are people that can thrive in an environment that's extremely rigid and boxy and all of your time is controlled like you're in the military or something.
00:28:30.68
Brian MacGregor
o Interesting.
00:28:41.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
But if you're a creative person, you need an environment where you can follow your passions, where you're treated respectfully, where your passions are treated respectfully, which is, I mean, even if you have a job you like and you're good at it, that is not always something you get is people that respect the things that you're good at.
00:29:01.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
So yeah, that that makes a whole lot of sense because I did a lot of customer service jobs and and Joe jobs, sales, stuff like that. And then I found out I was autistic and shouldn't have been anywhere near customer service. And that's why I always had so much difficulty with it. because you know i didn't understand people that ask you questions that they don't want the answers to or just like
00:29:23.83
Brian MacGregor
a
00:29:24.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
weird situations where it's like well i'm a person why aren't you talking to me like i'm a person Why, you know, like, just because there's a counter in between us doesn't mean that I'm your servant and you want to control what I do with my face. Like, I don't have to smile at you.
00:29:40.38
Brian MacGregor
This is all sounding.
00:29:40.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's not why I'm here.
00:29:42.53
Brian MacGregor
This is all sounding very familiar.
00:29:44.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right? Right? Yeah, yeah.
00:29:47.60
Brian MacGregor
Uh...
00:29:47.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
and it And it sucks because it's so hard to make a living in the arts.
00:29:48.34
Brian MacGregor
Yeah.
00:29:51.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
And we're the people that typically, unless, you know, you got like a rich family or whatever.
00:29:52.16
Brian MacGregor
Anyways.
00:29:57.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
you're probably going to end up in a Joe job sooner or later, and you're not going to like it.
00:29:57.79
Brian MacGregor
Yeah.
00:30:02.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, it's like all the waiters that are trying to be actors.
00:30:06.07
Brian MacGregor
Right. Yeah. I mean. where i was going to take this yeah i have a problem with like i guess authority figures for too long So. ah stems from my room
00:30:16.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and you know...
00:30:17.46
Brian MacGregor
my debt for my dad and whatnot.
00:30:17.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
If I may.
00:30:19.59
Brian MacGregor
But.
00:30:19.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
it' it It may not even be authority figures.
00:30:19.77
Brian MacGregor
ah
00:30:22.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
It may be like the... bullshit of authority the the throwing of your weight around the look how look you have to listen to me because i'm middle management and i make two dollars more an hour than you like so freaking what dude get over yourself
00:30:26.17
Brian MacGregor
Yes. Yes.
00:30:37.47
Brian MacGregor
ah Well, it's it's for me. I've really worked on thinking about. How does my... brain function. How? Is it the... I pick, choose jobs and work that I'm doing. Why is it that I... pick the artwork I pick.
00:30:52.95
Brian MacGregor
I constantly analyze my process. and pick it apart. And and i've I filmed myself working, which... this Sometimes is, is, uh, a pain but i do like at the end of the day when i'm doing murals and or finer stuff actually... re-watching that and then reviewing it.
00:31:12.03
Brian MacGregor
And recently from kind of.
00:31:12.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm.
00:31:14.82
Brian MacGregor
watching many different YouTube videos on this. Apparently that's a really good practice. to review your work. because then you can kind of start breaking down all right, what am I doing that's successful? What am I doing that works within? What am I happy with that I'm doing? What am I doing that doesn't work?
00:31:30.73
Brian MacGregor
and editing. And so that makes me become faster and faster and faster. So where I'm going with this is that... I really like creating my own process. to things.
00:31:42.93
Brian MacGregor
I like to know. how I'm working, what hours I'm going to be working on a project. I'm very project oriented. And I'll get something done within the amount of time that they ask me to.
00:31:53.59
Brian MacGregor
they're like we need it done and blah blah blah and i'll have a conversation with them with this and the other and i'll just make it work Then. figure it out. But that's because I'm setting my own. hours and schedule.
00:32:04.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
00:32:05.39
Brian MacGregor
and And I'm i'm quickly...
00:32:04.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
right
00:32:07.64
Brian MacGregor
I've done so many different. commissioned pieces. since the 90s. that I can quickly... in a conversation with somebody. Oh, okay.
00:32:18.41
Brian MacGregor
This is going to take me X number of days in my head. i could Okay, we'll take this much paint to cover the surface. i I'll need this kind of equipment, all this stuff, and do some calculations to it.
00:32:28.87
Brian MacGregor
So that makes it a... I guess. Like... Know thyself.
00:32:36.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. Sure, sure. Well, and for creative types, it is very important to control your environment, your schedule. your I mean, for for best results, you know.
00:32:47.83
Brian MacGregor
Yes, exactly
00:32:47.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
Um, So we're going to talk more about your work, but there is one thing I wanted to touch on first, because I am aware that you are a fan of the classic animated video game, the first one that looked like a legit cartoon, and I think also the first one that cost a dollar to play, and that is Dragon's Lair.
00:33:09.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now I would love to hear about your history with this game.
00:33:14.97
Brian MacGregor
Well, I probably first came across this. yeah in richmond in a uh i don't remember the name of the ah video arcade now, but my brother... is five years older than me and he was big into video games and arcade games. and So huge.
00:33:29.28
Brian MacGregor
uh we would go together to a lot of those and play all kinds of stuff. And. I mean, just the sheer fact with, like, Dragon's Lair. it's It's all animated.
00:33:40.24
Brian MacGregor
They hand drew...
00:33:40.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm.
00:33:42.18
Brian MacGregor
every scene throughout the whole video game. And. I love it. the experimentation of it. There just isn't anything else. Thank you. out there that exists.
00:33:54.13
Brian MacGregor
And. That's because it was hard. And I...
00:33:57.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:33:58.11
Brian MacGregor
Totally respect that. And I find that. Really great. it iss Beautiful. I mean, it's a game. it's just
00:34:04.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm.
00:34:04.78
Brian MacGregor
Gorgeous. From the standpoint of a video game, there's parts of it that are like it's just unbelievably difficult. And you're mostly going. You're deciding to go straight left. you know right or back kind of stuff so it's Peace.
00:34:19.94
Brian MacGregor
simple from from that aspect of it But the... It's... I just see it as a beautiful. Uh, artistic experiment. Have a look.
00:34:30.55
Brian MacGregor
of the video.
00:34:32.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. I mean, when I was a kid, I had no concept of how difficult, you know, like the difference between hand-drawn animation and what you'd see on an Atari 2600, you know, where it's just these little stick figures, but because there was a a little...
00:34:51.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
like eight bit piece sticking out of their heads it was like oh my god they're wearing hats The future is here, you guys.
00:34:58.65
Brian MacGregor
That's the thing.
00:34:58.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
This is what art is. And then you look at Dragon's Lair and it looks... like on par with a He-Man cartoon, basically.
00:35:06.17
Brian MacGregor
Oh, yeah.
00:35:06.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
but but
00:35:06.67
Brian MacGregor
I mean, and with classic Disney. That kind of like that level.
00:35:10.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
00:35:11.35
Brian MacGregor
Bye-bye. artistry kind of stuff. and
00:35:14.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah and it's not really until i was an adult that i looked back and was like wait a minute that is a video game with hand-drawn animation no wonder it's a dollar because at the time you're like this game is really hard i'm gonna die in under a minute and that was a whole dollar so you know and meanwhile there's like three people at the grocery store line behind you because our dragon slayer was at the grocery store next to the penny pony um
00:35:28.60
Brian MacGregor
yes exactly
00:35:32.29
Brian MacGregor
Yep.
00:35:40.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
And yeah, I mean, it was an experience, like but I mean. That's back when video games had almost a sense of community around them because the same people would be hanging around the video game section when you go to the store or the mall or whatever.
00:35:56.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know. Just like the early days of that, of just talking about games. and You know, and then our parents would. jump in and be like in my day we had pinball machines it's like dude nobody cares this is a cartoon video game we're trying to play get out of here So...
00:36:13.60
Brian MacGregor
Yeah, but and I got the...
00:36:14.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, yeah.
00:36:15.50
Brian MacGregor
I got to play it again recently. at a convention so that's what you're you're You're speaking up because I posted a photo of it.
00:36:21.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes. Yes.
00:36:22.52
Brian MacGregor
Um, And so that was ah in it.
00:36:22.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm.
00:36:24.86
Brian MacGregor
in Atlanta. a game convention up there that brought vintage um video games uh there's also a whole board game section and stuff that did as well but in the video game. area it was just great because you know You paid for tickets for the event and stuff, but they were free.
00:36:42.07
Brian MacGregor
So you could actually... trying. get a lot further in Dragon's Lair. Then. you've ever could paying for it because you end up paying like $50 just to like...
00:36:52.91
Brian MacGregor
like
00:36:53.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
00:36:54.76
Brian MacGregor
into the castle and a little further. you know uh So you could just keep. keep playing until your your fingers bleed and your hands break off Oh man, it was just... just Such an amazing.
00:37:09.26
Brian MacGregor
Amazing time to play all these different games because they had... Hundreds. hundreds Hundreds of different. classic arcade games. Again, they were set up to be free. so you just play one for a couple of minutes move on to another one people would interchange with them. and Really good stuff. and ah Galaga.
00:37:28.17
Brian MacGregor
is my brother's favorite and that became one of my favorites of course too centipede no
00:37:33.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh yeah. Yeah.
00:37:37.01
Brian MacGregor
Classics.
00:37:37.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that's... and centipede is such a simple game i remember at one point they were making a watch with a center peak game on it. And. It's just amazing to me. But that concept of like.
00:37:50.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
an arcade where all the games are free that's the kind of thing that would blow a kid's mind that just exists today and it's not i mean it's it's kind of a big deal because it's cool but like there are a lot of things like that now that as a kid we would dream of it What if I could?
00:38:06.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
Get someone to deliver Taco Bell to my house. And now that's a thing. You know, what if
00:38:11.23
Brian MacGregor
there's there's one in the There's one in the mountains that I thought they did a really good job. it's uh current pinball games, but also classic. Uh, that. it's i want to say like 10 bucks or something like that and yet that's covers you for an hour
00:38:26.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh my gosh.
00:38:26.79
Brian MacGregor
And you get a little wristband and then you can get. food and drinks there and stuff too and they had I want to say probably something like 70, 80 games. No, probably even more than that, but anyway.
00:38:37.84
Brian MacGregor
um a lot
00:38:38.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's awesome!
00:38:39.15
Brian MacGregor
all different kind of pinball games. So you do that so somewhere between. 10 to $20 that you might spend. And then they're there. free obviously after that. And I feel like that's a really smart business model.
00:38:51.41
Brian MacGregor
On there.
00:38:51.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah it is because the place there's a you know like a fun time place around here and it has some cool stuff but it it's all paying like by the games individually
00:38:52.12
Brian MacGregor
on their part.
00:39:02.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, you know, they have the machines where you can try to win something and, you know, you get the boyfriends that are there for an hour trying to win some little plushie. But. The last time I went to one of those they had a giant hungry hungry hippos. That's like, uh Like a playground ride. Like it's that big where you sit on the hippo and it's a big lever that you work with two hands.
00:39:24.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
and And try to eat the... you know, the the big giant balls, which I realize is not a video game, but in terms of like retro gaming and stuff you wished existed when you were a kid.
00:39:36.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
Holy crap, Giant Hungry Hungry Hippos was so where it's at.
00:39:39.88
Brian MacGregor
Oh. I mean, they had one, I ah took a picture of it as well, that my friend Greg. that we went to the convention with. was uh not a video game and but it was set up in like the kind of arcade style And it had a metal... rod going across the bottom and a but whole bunch of holes and a maze and you would just take this like metal ball you would twist these knobs and kind of it raise the...
00:40:03.54
Brian MacGregor
the uh rod up and down on the sides and so you move the ball and you try and not have it Go into law.
00:40:06.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:40:10.49
Brian MacGregor
home. of like the first ones. And, um Eh. That ended up being such a cool game that we ended up playing. Um, you know ah in this whole environment of Um,
00:40:23.54
Brian MacGregor
video games and stuff, that was one that we kept coming back to. So there's there's definitely time and place for all that kind of stuff.
00:40:29.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
Neat. Neat. So yeah, so let's get into your art. Now, I know that you are a painter. um i also i have i saw some pieces that had some sculpting components are you also the sculptor
00:40:45.56
Brian MacGregor
ah Oh, yeah yeah. Yeah, for sure. yeah i've done Um, three-dimensional
00:40:52.96
Brian MacGregor
kind of work. So I build my own frames. I call them these mixed frames. And I take. several different frame pieces. And frame sticks the full length. eight-foot frame sticks. And I chop them up and I rearrange them and I make these kind of sculptural frames out of them. So I've been doing that since 2008.
00:41:11.71
Brian MacGregor
so i've played around with smaller bits of sculptural stuff and of course i've been in art classes. Go ahead. All the way back from when I was a kid. from like ah i art museum classes to independent classes to to an art tutor. and I went to an art high school, then I went to college for, so I've done like three-dimensional stuff along the way, but I don't.
00:41:35.47
Brian MacGregor
I haven't done too many sculptures until recently. where I was asked to build this. Um, Shark. And if I'll circle back around again to how I was talking about knowing how you think.
00:41:51.46
Brian MacGregor
Um, So. For me, play. Because... extremely important. Because... many artists talk about and say. And so I don't. come to artwork being paid for artwork and this and the other as a negative.
00:42:05.65
Brian MacGregor
Bye. I strive to always be an artist all the time in my mind. and my daily life. So. I even think about art when I'm not working, etc., because I i love it.
00:42:16.68
Brian MacGregor
So I I got this gig of the shark. Because I made some helmets and masks of a fox. for my wife and I for when we were going to a Renaissance Fair.
00:42:28.03
Brian MacGregor
So I built these out of out of cardboard, right?
00:42:28.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:42:31.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
h
00:42:31.98
Brian MacGregor
So I made them out of cardboard and I put like Celtic knots on them and just... Having fun. This was not for sale. This was made. strictly for me. I wasn't even putting it in the gallery to sell it.
00:42:42.81
Brian MacGregor
And this wasn't a commission, again. Just. because i'm having fun And so one of my collectors... uh saw that She saw this piece. And she had already hired me for...
00:42:56.04
Brian MacGregor
a mural. on their wall at at their at their business. It's a tea shop. And so she said. uh hey would you could you do this? And show when I went in there one day, she showed me a video of somebody making a Oh.
00:43:10.58
Brian MacGregor
3D Shark they thought about. buying it from them, they realize that person lives in Alaska or something and could never ship it.
00:43:15.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:43:16.75
Brian MacGregor
They couldn't ship it here, you know? So she said, hey, could you make that? i've I watched the video for... about You know, 30 seconds. isn it Yeah. Yeah I could make you something like that.
00:43:27.97
Brian MacGregor
For sure. And I... it wasn I wasn't. you know, bullshitting. I wasn't piercing. Like, I can figure that out. Yeah. I'll figure out how to do it. um I hadn't. built anything like that.
00:43:40.30
Brian MacGregor
That does mean it.
00:43:40.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
the confidence on you, man.
00:43:42.58
Brian MacGregor
that doesn't mean i couldn't so you know so i was like okay give me some time um but i've built like a deck i've built decks i've built like a
00:43:42.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's dope.
00:43:51.48
Brian MacGregor
tower and sky deck so you know like i've made Things. smaller. Within like a three-dimensional I have a three-dimensional mind poor stuff. um As in...
00:44:04.94
Brian MacGregor
Well, if it's still me, not everybody could do this, but... thinking about an object. and then turning it in your mind. Right, so if you take, say, like a...
00:44:12.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:44:13.91
Brian MacGregor
um a banana or a bowl of fruit or whatever and you can in Imagine that in your imagination. So you see it straight on. And now...
00:44:22.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm.
00:44:23.71
Brian MacGregor
Turn that bull it just in your mind And being able to.
00:44:27.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
No. It's making my head hurt.
00:44:29.45
Brian MacGregor
And be able to. And being able to think about.
00:44:31.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
its
00:44:32.65
Brian MacGregor
what What does that banana and apple look like? on the other side of it Right.
00:44:37.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, I'm just going to describe it using words.
00:44:37.56
Brian MacGregor
What does it look like if you turn the bowl at an angle?
00:44:39.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Come on, dude.
00:44:39.91
Brian MacGregor
Yeah.
00:44:40.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
00:44:42.95
Brian MacGregor
ah if If you flip it over now, how does it look? And et cetera. Right, so being able to spin an object. in your mind kind of thing as just a visual thinking. process So I'll...
00:44:53.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I assure you that is not a skill that everyone has. My goodness.
00:44:56.90
Brian MacGregor
No. No, very apparently not. well like um So i I think in that kind of way. And... with with painting and... in art so i think about the way light hits an object so that i'm drawing it from like kind of a sculptural standpoint So then... leapfrogging that into an actual three-dimensional object.
00:45:17.88
Brian MacGregor
to me isn't. Um, It's definitely a challenge For sure. but there's like the learning curve is less i guess
00:45:28.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. I gotcha.
00:45:31.61
Brian MacGregor
it's It's sort of like a musician.
00:45:31.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now.
00:45:34.70
Brian MacGregor
knowing how to play many different wind wind instruments. And then somebody goes like, oh, well, can you play this wind instrument from... that you've never heard of. You know, and they probably can they probably can
00:45:43.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
00:45:46.30
Brian MacGregor
you know
00:45:47.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, okay, see that makes sense. I know people that do that with string instruments. You know, it's like they're proficient with like guitar and bass and violin.
00:45:52.34
Brian MacGregor
Correct.
00:45:56.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
So if you hand them a dulcimer, they can totally do something with it, even though they've never picked one up before.
00:45:59.73
Brian MacGregor
They may not be able to do it well and they'll do some practice or something.
00:46:03.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
00:46:04.48
Brian MacGregor
But it'll, but it'll like the, uh, the. leapfrogging to that concept isn't going to be. terribly difficult.
00:46:11.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
no and plus you know you'll You'll be more confident because it is in your field of expertise, even though it isn't what you typically do.
00:46:21.45
Brian MacGregor
Yeah, and...
00:46:21.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
Um.
00:46:23.01
Brian MacGregor
I will say another part two is... I think in the arts. Um, that people don't think about enough. is sort of shopping for your clients.
00:46:34.57
Brian MacGregor
Two. to a certain way. and your collectors and your people.
00:46:36.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
00:46:38.68
Brian MacGregor
So you connect with your people through over conversation. And that I want to say that's probably my superpower. Ever since I've been doing commissioned stuff since I was a teenager. So that was it. 10th grade have done. stuff for people.
00:46:53.94
Brian MacGregor
And so I have a conversation with people and I can tell in the conversation whether or not I can work with them. And that is.
00:47:01.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that is its own skill, man, because, yeah, I can tell you.
00:47:02.20
Brian MacGregor
Huge. That is huge.
00:47:06.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
i've I've definitely had experiences with clients where, you know, three weeks in, you're like, my God, what the hell did I agree to?
00:47:07.82
Brian MacGregor
but
00:47:14.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know.
00:47:15.04
Brian MacGregor
Right.
00:47:15.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Well, people, for example, that have just written their first book.
00:47:15.99
Brian MacGregor
Right. Yeah.
00:47:19.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then it turns out that they're not happy with the editing because they tried to publish a first draft in the book. isn't really finished yet so every other page they want to make changes you know crazy stuff like that that if i had had a sharper eye and a more discerning understanding of the the client creator relationship i never would have worked with those people in the first place but i didn't know you know
00:47:42.83
Brian MacGregor
Yeah, there's there's a lot of. uh, bringing things up. There's a lot of saying. okay, this is how I work. And then going like, this is the timeline. And so I always try to tell people what I would want to hear.
00:47:54.37
Brian MacGregor
If I'm hiring somebody for something, what do I want?
00:47:56.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure, sure.
00:47:57.01
Brian MacGregor
Yes. I want to hear what their process is like. i want to hear when they're going to send me stuff i want to hear
00:48:00.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm.
00:48:03.24
Brian MacGregor
um You know. i ah And then asking good questions, right? when they want something etc all the all the things all those good questions to ask them but also telling them, okay, this is my process.
00:48:15.87
Brian MacGregor
and not be I hear from so many artists. that they're like oh i don't want to have to teach people how Uh... process goes. Well. Tough noogies, man.
00:48:25.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:48:25.86
Brian MacGregor
Sorry, like not everybody knows how your individual process works. so Too bad.
00:48:32.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and I mean, you can.
00:48:32.36
Brian MacGregor
teach people how the process works.
00:48:35.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
That can all be in your contract, you know, just put it in the contract so they're written records.
00:48:38.08
Brian MacGregor
Yeah.
00:48:39.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that's another thing that I had to learn really early on is not to just have a verbal gentleman's agreement with people because people aren't.
00:48:43.96
Brian MacGregor
exactly
00:48:48.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
Always gentlemen. So you got to write that shit down. um
00:48:53.15
Brian MacGregor
I've had my... My first contract I made, I think I was like 15, 16. i think one page yeah from going to the these conventions and then i talked to these artists table round tables and stuff and
00:48:57.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice.
00:49:05.54
Brian MacGregor
I grew up thankful both way. artists, my parents were artists on there. They're off time. So my mom was a seamstress. and and quilter and all kinds of stuff my dad did woodworking kind of stuff and they would they would went to craft fairs and sold their Your stuff and whatnot.
00:49:22.70
Brian MacGregor
ah And we're in the Richmond Crafters Guild. So I grew up around. all these people that I was able to ask all these. questions too early on. And ta-ra-bah. That gave me...
00:49:33.46
Brian MacGregor
Such a framework. to work on where like it's Really intimidating these days to think. And people do not understand how small business works. My wife and I were just talking about this the other night because we're both small business owners.
00:49:42.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. True.
00:49:46.53
Brian MacGregor
And they have this. people that have never really worked on. small business kind of thing. They have this vision that they're going to get. Up off the ground in three months. and smooth sailing from then on.
00:49:58.85
Brian MacGregor
Yeah, it never works that way.
00:49:59.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:50:00.12
Brian MacGregor
I've been doing this even for 30 years and like 20 plus years solid. Like. Now. Sorry, I'm constantly going. like Wow, I'm still doing it? How do I keep getting asked to do more work?
00:50:15.16
Brian MacGregor
I don't even know how it it' just like feels like magic.
00:50:15.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
That is...
00:50:17.38
Brian MacGregor
I don't understand it.
00:50:18.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. Heh. Now, I'm aware that you've painted at least one ceiling. um which I'm sure makes everybody compare you to Da Vinci.
00:50:26.30
Brian MacGregor
Yes.
00:50:29.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
um what What is...
00:50:30.43
Brian MacGregor
Oh, I've only heard that a couple of times. Yeah.
00:50:32.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
Only a few times compared to one of the greatest creators of of humanity. um just just just occasionally. um so So here's what I want to know.
00:50:43.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
Tell me something about painting a ceiling that a pleb like myself would never know.
00:50:51.37
Brian MacGregor
Um... Hmm. Well, being able to... I mean, you could deduce any of these things, I would guess, but... uh when you're up on a ceiling it is ridiculously hard to see any further than say like two feet around your head.
00:51:08.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure, that makes sense.
00:51:09.29
Brian MacGregor
Right. So you can only really work within like that kind of framework of it. Um, So I've done a couple of ceilings. i paint one at my house i did one recently for for for a client. here in Savannah.
00:51:25.24
Brian MacGregor
and on their in their meditation room. Pain 1. And I did one for Subaru. and Believe it or not, the one on the Subaru ceiling was the first time. i painted a ceiling.
00:51:37.71
Brian MacGregor
And that was. 5000 square feet. And I'm very...
00:51:41.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh my gosh.
00:51:42.67
Brian MacGregor
are very expensive. job and I had to say like Sure, I could do this.
00:51:49.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
but
00:51:49.63
Brian MacGregor
Good. I figure it out. I'll see you. yeah i mean i've painted stuff on walls so why not You get up. Uh...
00:51:58.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow
00:51:59.62
Brian MacGregor
And yeah, there were there was a there was a very large learning curve and and it was a construction site, which I do actually find I enjoy. painting murals and like construction sites and stuff i've done it a number of times now There's something to do with like wearing the yellow bright yellow vest.
00:52:17.03
Brian MacGregor
And. Just feeling like I'm... around all the ah The guys are just like getting dirty. Having fun. like building stuff and then they're
00:52:24.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice.
00:52:25.39
Brian MacGregor
they would kind of stand up behind me or watching me draw and paint and always asking questions Um, But yeah, so the ceiling. So that one I'll say the Subaru one. This is 20 feet.
00:52:36.77
Brian MacGregor
to give you a frame of reference. Um, The floor space. 3 ,500 square feet. And then so the ceiling was that but then I brought the mural down around the edges.
00:52:49.68
Brian MacGregor
Love it. And it was clouds. So I painted an entire ceiling of clouds. um
00:52:54.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:52:56.57
Brian MacGregor
Yeah. And the timeline was real short. So it was over the span of two months, but I could not. Paint. That two months. they did they put a like sealer on the floor for cars because they're bringing cars in is a kind of a showroom slash a place where people would bring their car in to kind of look at. to get like observed and stuff.
00:53:17.79
Brian MacGregor
So anyway... Um, It's massive. So my working time. ended up being 16 days. which in hindsight is...
00:53:29.56
Brian MacGregor
Just batshit crazy. Because it's like...
00:53:32.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:53:33.42
Brian MacGregor
eight to 10 hours a day, somewhere between six, eight to 10 hours a day. i'm right-handed and yeah sure i can kind of paint with my left hand but That's a whole lot of your arm up.
00:53:44.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
oh yeah
00:53:45.28
Brian MacGregor
So... And it's 20 feet in the... The air. So I'm using a lift. So a scissor lift. So I got a scissor left, comes up off the ground. It was up to the top.
00:53:57.05
Brian MacGregor
And for this gig, just ah just to say, like from like... price point i had to figure all this stuff out construction site all that stuff i negotiated it in for them to... rent the lift.
00:54:07.89
Brian MacGregor
Because I had a strong feeling. that this project was not going to go on my timeline. uh that it was going to extend and that was it ended up being a very smart move because it'll end up being two months which That is all.
00:54:20.78
Brian MacGregor
and expensive. rental. Just to tell you.
00:54:23.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh yeah.
00:54:25.60
Brian MacGregor
To give you a little bit. uh So anyhow. So I'm up here. Oh, it's ceiling painting this. I'm realizing I can't. and it's It's pretty expressive clouds. It's not just a puffy cloud. puffy cloud it's It's a lot of colors and kind of blends out.
00:54:41.50
Brian MacGregor
I'm realizing that. I can't. project an image on the ceiling for this. I can't really do a grid. either. um So all these different techniques. artists use to take your design and then kind of enlarge it.
00:54:57.15
Brian MacGregor
I can't really use any of those for this. It is just... Too massive. of a project. So I just have to freehand it. So I have...
00:55:05.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh man.
00:55:06.21
Brian MacGregor
Maya. Yeah, so I have my sheets there and stuff. But like. i'm not gonna say it was easy because it was not and i stressed a lot so i'm not putting that But just there's a big difference when something is organic shapes.
00:55:19.34
Brian MacGregor
and clouds you can Kind of play with a fair amount now we do know what clouds look like and they do behave by certain rules. And I did, I didn't. wasn't going for photo realism, but I wasn't going for cartoon.
00:55:32.53
Brian MacGregor
I was going for somewhere like... closer more to realism. but not necessarily photo.
00:55:36.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:55:37.17
Brian MacGregor
Right. ah for this particular piece. So I had to keep a lot of that in mind while I'm... sketching out. so On this thing, I bring the lift up. Give you an idea.
00:55:49.22
Brian MacGregor
And this thing is about the size of a car. give you also frame or reference I'm standing out on the ceiling. like And I'm just using my arm to make. big half circles. And.
00:56:00.25
Brian MacGregor
Big light. pieces and stuff like that kind of throwing my arm all over the place to create shapes And then I bring the lift all the way down to the ground. And then I even had like the spot on the floor.
00:56:11.51
Brian MacGregor
with like a tarp down where I would lay there so I could just look up at the ceiling. Amen. kind of playing out my next moves okay what am i going to draw over here what am i going to draw here And also what I did ahead of time was I asked them. if they were going to be painting the drywall. those in there.
00:56:27.94
Brian MacGregor
And they said, yes. So I said, well, If you're going to be painting anyway, can you paint it blue? instead of white. So they did that. So that that saved me. Four days of time.
00:56:40.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow
00:56:41.17
Brian MacGregor
So it's like... I just assumed I saw just a solid color blue. So from that, I thought about that ahead of time. And this all came from experience, right? If this was the first gig I had ever done kind of like this, I wouldn't have thought I had to. to say any of this stuff. It would have.
00:56:57.90
Brian MacGregor
Yes. the budget. probably wouldn't have been what it was. And I would have been running out the lift. and I couldn't even hire anybody.
00:57:08.54
Brian MacGregor
Because I have to have special insurance for a job like that.
00:57:12.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right that makes sense
00:57:12.70
Brian MacGregor
So. If... if i do hire somebody they also have to have this special insurance, liability insurance. and it becomes... a lot so i do get artists from time to time okay can i help you out with this project this this project there And if it's like for a school or like kind of something.
00:57:33.17
Brian MacGregor
or a personal or like private. Cut a piece. I i could. But for these kind of like the bigger that I like corporate gigs like that. It's...
00:57:43.40
Brian MacGregor
See, it's tricky. at all it's not It's not easy. to be able to do that I kind of end up having it.
00:57:48.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:57:49.52
Brian MacGregor
I have to do them myself. which Which is fine.
00:57:52.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:57:52.75
Brian MacGregor
I mean, I don't mind doing that.
00:57:55.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
That makes so much sense. And yeah, that most of that would never have occurred to me. without uh without. hearing that so Wow.
00:58:04.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Okay, we actually have to take just a quick pause in our discussion, because this is the part of the show where I acknowledge the big donors. to the show. um If you want to be a donor to the Mentally Oddcast, you could do that on Ko-fi .com and find us there um this month. we were this I guess, yeah, it's it's a month because the the giving is for the month. So we want to thank Allison Huff, Nimue Ravenhall, That One Fool.
00:58:38.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
Uh huh. my good friend Loki, Brianna Simmons, Lilith Ang, the man who goes by Rusty Shackleford, and the delightful couple of Bradley and Fred.
00:58:50.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that's everyone. So thanks to all of them. And if you would like to join their illustrious ranks, please do so. um Our donation tiers start, I think, at $1 or $2 a month, something like that.
00:59:04.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
so You know, that that might work into your budget. You just never know. um so ah So, Brian, you live with insomnia that is so severe.
00:59:15.100
Wednesday Lee Friday
that it can impact your work and general functionality when untreated. now I want to preface these questions by impressing on listeners that when we talk about chronic insomnia, We're not just saying. it's hard to sleep sometimes, or I didn't get enough sleep last night, or, I mean, it's, it's a real issue. Personally, I had untreated apnea for the first
00:59:40.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
37 years of my life. And I can point to a whole lot of things that it caused that were not good for me. um it It can impact your physical health, your mental health. Like sleep is the foundation of good health. If you are not sleeping, it is going to detract from your overall well-being. Okay, so having said that, um when did this begin for you?
01:00:07.18
Brian MacGregor
A teenager. Yeah, which it is the more I've researched into it, that's pretty typical. but it can for anybody that.
01:00:12.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm.
01:00:13.67
Brian MacGregor
suffers from like severe insomnia or can suffer from severe insomnia Um, So yeah, I was about 15. So something like that.
01:00:21.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now, the the science says that teenagers need more sleep than adults. In fact, your teenage years, like 13 to 16 or 17, sometimes older for boys, you need the most sleep in your life that you have needed since you were a baby.
01:00:38.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like it's it's super important for teens because of all the the mental and physical changes that are going on.
01:00:38.73
Brian MacGregor
Correct.
01:00:45.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
So when when did you like, um, How long between the time that you noticed that something was wrong, were you able to get treatment?
01:00:55.05
Brian MacGregor
I've never gotten treatment for it. No, that it's I just ah suffered through it and dealt with it. And to be honest, the art. is my treatment.
01:01:06.42
Brian MacGregor
That's my. by therapy. So being an artist and... being able to get myself fully immersed into that. and is uh because Let's do this. I am a passionate person.
01:01:19.68
Brian MacGregor
And I... from some other people, I kind of have more. or especially when i was younger and i still feel it now have more emotions. than some other people do. like him.
01:01:30.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm.
01:01:31.48
Brian MacGregor
Um, that are really strong. And... ah So I have to like... and maybe not bring those out all the time around other people. as i sure you could probably relate to.
01:01:44.11
Brian MacGregor
Um,
01:01:44.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure, sure
01:01:46.76
Brian MacGregor
But yeah, it would be overthinking. It stemmed from like overthinking and... Um, not being able to get out of a spiral.
01:01:57.33
Brian MacGregor
and and then kind of creating a downward spiral kind of aspect of it So for instance, if something was bothering me at all. And sometimes it could be nothing bothering me. It could just be like, I didn't go to. bad at a decent time.
01:02:11.11
Brian MacGregor
And then... That kind of kicked me out of the schedule one night. And then the following night, for whatever reason, we stay up too late for X, Y, and Z. And then the next night. I kinda had a little trouble sleeping.
01:02:23.34
Brian MacGregor
And then the next night. I didn't sleep at all. And then all of a sudden now it's... going to that spiral work. I could potentially not sleep for like a week. And. It could be like...
01:02:34.65
Brian MacGregor
done debilitating. to where brain rot, like. At the very moment. I have had decent sleep. Not great. Like I've... i barely remember a time when I went to bed at night.
01:02:48.95
Brian MacGregor
And they just woke up in the morning. Click. that thought to me. And that... some adults. could still do that. It's just like. Wow, that must be... That must be amazing.
01:03:01.28
Brian MacGregor
to like close your eyes, and then you just wake up.
01:03:01.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:03:04.61
Brian MacGregor
in the morning wow that's gonna be like that's like magic you just unplugged and i just woke up Holy shit.
01:03:10.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
and and woke up feeling like refreshed and functional like what what even is that
01:03:10.98
Brian MacGregor
Um, Arrested Yeah.
01:03:16.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
So do you think that...
01:03:17.20
Brian MacGregor
Yeah.
01:03:18.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
um So would would you say that your insomnia is caused by anxiety? Or do you think there's a ah physical component as well?
01:03:28.60
Brian MacGregor
It's both. um Yeah, there's physical component, but yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yeah, yeah, for sure. anxiety. And. um There is a... Part of it. to um where I think I process things.
01:03:44.22
Brian MacGregor
in a very quick... way like a little too quick so that kind of Um, and so So my writing isn't that great. I'm slightly...
01:03:55.32
Brian MacGregor
very, very slightly dyslexic. I used to be a whole lot worse. kind of overcome a fair amount of that So my spelling is atrocious. it It's because I have a ah visual. mindset so that's that's not how i approach words and necessarily in that that sense right Um,
01:04:11.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:04:11.66
Brian MacGregor
but I... Think about things on like a very quick kind of sort of uh deep level especially at night So that. That can just kind of like...
01:04:23.13
Brian MacGregor
I do. an endless spiral and that's mostly from from Outsaber. where it comes from, but it could be from. um And... current. life It could be I have a big mural project coming up.
01:04:36.24
Brian MacGregor
And I'm thinking of... All the steps. I'm gonna need to do. for the next day. And the fact that this project. years. in the public eye.
01:04:46.95
Brian MacGregor
And... The news may be coming out the next day and interviewing me for something. or You know. ah I'm going to hear about it because it's going to be like.
01:04:57.79
Brian MacGregor
uh like for instance this current one i'm working on it's on a very busy road so I'm hearing from people that are see me working on it. during the day and all this stuff. and And it's really cool, but it's also...
01:05:10.13
Brian MacGregor
It can be very nerve-wracking. In the sense of going through, okay. How am I going to approach this? and you know And I'm breaking down all my processes. All that stuff.
01:05:21.64
Brian MacGregor
it's It can be a little tricky to unplug.
01:05:25.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'm sure. I'm sure. I wonder um Now, you say that you're not. treated which to me means that you do not have a diagnosis Nor are you receiving ongoing like medication.
01:05:38.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
From a doctor. is Is that accurate?
01:05:40.32
Brian MacGregor
Correct.
01:05:41.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:05:41.91
Brian MacGregor
Right.
01:05:42.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
So.
01:05:42.33
Brian MacGregor
Boom.
01:05:42.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
did you try anything over the counter to sleep melatonin uh gummies any uh Any kind of sleep aid?
01:05:50.41
Brian MacGregor
Yeah. metonins Melatonin didn't really do anything for me. uh cummings didn't Actually, the the one of the best. things that has helped me.
01:06:00.49
Brian MacGregor
I mean... but i am now deep into the 40s, so... ah And my wife was like, you're gonna you've developed snoring. So you're going to have to start sleeping on the couch.
01:06:12.89
Brian MacGregor
And so I actually wear this device with my tongue. Now that pulls my tongue out. So part of it is comes from physical kind of... stuff of where I'm like. tongue goes back into my throat and wakes me up.
01:06:25.80
Brian MacGregor
And. Currently, now I snore. I did not before last year. for this year. But this... plastic piece like or silicone goes on the end of my tongue and pulls my tongue out just a little bit I've been able to sleep.
01:06:40.89
Brian MacGregor
so much better. From.
01:06:43.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's a
01:06:44.09
Brian MacGregor
wearing that.
01:06:44.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's a type of apnea, dude.
01:06:46.79
Brian MacGregor
Yeah, yeah, I know. My brother had a sleep apnea. So it's.
01:06:49.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
now This...
01:06:50.95
Brian MacGregor
It's not far. ah
01:06:53.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because i'm I'm listening to you and I'm thinking in my head over and over again. Why haven't you had a sleep study? Why aren't you letting doctors handle this? But it occurs to me that both you and your wife are, you own your own businesses, which means your insurance situation.
01:07:08.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
could be such that you can't just go and get a sleep study if you want one.
01:07:11.07
Brian MacGregor
Yeah. We have insurance now, but yeah. ah I had insurance for a good long time when I was like, I was able to pay like $100 a month and then.
01:07:22.42
Brian MacGregor
and then uh and then for a number of years i just yeah i just went without
01:07:23.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure.
01:07:26.45
Brian MacGregor
So. just kind of
01:07:28.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, because Georgia, they did not take the ah the Medicaid expansion, the ACA expansion.
01:07:28.64
Brian MacGregor
Yeah, just that one.
01:07:32.87
Brian MacGregor
correct no they did not They did not.
01:07:33.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
So... So that just kind of screws everyone.
01:07:35.47
Brian MacGregor
Yeah.
01:07:36.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I'm really lucky I'm in Michigan. So even though we have UHC, there are still programs that help.
01:07:40.12
Brian MacGregor
Yeah.
01:07:43.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
poor people such as myself get the medical care I need to not die. So that's that's been nice. So is is there a reason that you haven't gone in for a sleep study then?
01:07:55.32
Brian MacGregor
ah You know, to be honest, I think it's just from uh, being raised in a sense that I kind of. We just didn't go to the doctor that much.
01:08:07.29
Brian MacGregor
I wouldn't say it's like a toughen it up. but Maybe. Kinda. that kind of aspect slash like it doesn't feel like uh it's like so low grade in a sense because sometimes it comes in and that the insomnia aspect of it um To where. oh yeah i mean it sucks i might like not sleep for like Yeah, a week or so. Like I said, and I'm i'm just i'm just trash. But then I've i've worked my life.
01:08:33.67
Brian MacGregor
In such a way around that, that I don't. generally have to go anywhere too early unless I'm working on a mural project. I can just take the day off if I want to. um So I've engineered my life that way. And like, I'm not.
01:08:46.89
Brian MacGregor
I'm wealthy, obviously, I'm an artist, so like you know that comes and goes, and some months some years are much better than others. but i have a hard time like i can't I can't and nor do I want to pay.
01:08:58.03
Brian MacGregor
$1 ,200 for health insurance. I'm sorry, I'm just not gonna do that.
01:09:01.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure.
01:09:03.16
Brian MacGregor
That's just ah unfathomably like insane to me. I'm just not going to do it. I have a gallery that I i've run and I pay like rent to. um so And, you know, it is life. you know as expensive as it is, you know. already.
01:09:21.34
Brian MacGregor
Um, from all those things. So it just...
01:09:23.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well and... So many things about health insurance are just bullshit. Just like the premiums are absurdly high. And then you have a deductible on top of that. And then they still want to like veto things that your doctor says you need. Right now, like my husband.
01:09:40.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
is uh the the main breadwinner in our home and i am on his work insurance but in order to allow me to be on his work insurance they took away the tier that was employee plus spouse and so there's a tier for employee plus kids.
01:09:56.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
But for me to be on the insurance, it has to be employee plus family. So we're...
01:10:02.39
Brian MacGregor
you
01:10:02.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
basically paying to ensure children that don't exist and they still want to say oh you know we're not going to cover your CPAP parts we're not going to cover you know that ambulance bill like just crazy stuff that's like what do you mean you're not gonna i mean they had the siren on it wasn't a casual ambulance trip so Yeah, I get that, that insurance.
01:10:26.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
is largely I mean, it's it's a scam now. Like, I think it started out well-intentioned. Let's pool our resources together to make sure everybody gets care.
01:10:37.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
But the primary goal for insurance companies is not to provide care. It's to make money for shareholders, which is why they they fight so hard against universal health care, because it would decimate them.
01:10:44.90
Brian MacGregor
Yeah, exactly. it's
01:10:49.48
Brian MacGregor
there there used to be an old There used to be an old way when... um when humans mostly had Lived in villages of say 200 to 300 some people And the doctor is in the village.
01:11:01.32
Brian MacGregor
essentially got paid to keep people well. That's when they it was when people were not feeling well and were sick. they They didn't get paid. So they have an incentive.
01:11:13.57
Brian MacGregor
to keep people well we currently live in the exact opposite of that
01:11:17.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:11:20.73
Brian MacGregor
So that's a big part.
01:11:21.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep, yep. and And I know we were trying not to get political, but...
01:11:23.10
Brian MacGregor
But I...
01:11:26.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nixon man Nixon and his buddies at Kaiser Permanente that's who did this to us and then Reagan was like Hey, let's invent HMOs.
01:11:27.80
Brian MacGregor
Yeah. Oh yeah.
01:11:31.61
Brian MacGregor
We are.
01:11:34.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
like Dude.
01:11:35.20
Brian MacGregor
Yeah, and get...
01:11:35.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Let's not.
01:11:35.82
Brian MacGregor
And get rid of the yeah get rid of the mental health. hospitals. and Yeah. Oh yeah.
01:11:41.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:11:43.81
Brian MacGregor
Mm hmm.
01:11:44.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
so
01:11:45.40
Brian MacGregor
I think for me personally, like probably the, yeah, just dealing with. the Kind of. things probably by uh Just like... of the reason why i hadn't really and i know i've brought it up but the solutions were Didn't seem helpful.
01:12:01.63
Brian MacGregor
I've brought it up to doctors and stuff before that. It was kind of like Audrey. you know go to bed at the same time which is a really good. thing And I agree with.
01:12:12.02
Brian MacGregor
um now, but like, oh, try not to.
01:12:13.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
in In theory.
01:12:14.27
Brian MacGregor
Why not to think about things so much before you go to bed? Oh yeah, that's a great idea too. Um, Yeah. Certainly. sort of aspect like that.
01:12:23.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I'll tell you what, staying off the internet before bed was huge for me because not only do I think the screens do some kind of.
01:12:24.39
Brian MacGregor
yeah
01:12:28.88
Brian MacGregor
Yeah.
01:12:31.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
weird like keep in the back of your brain awake thing but also
01:12:35.26
Brian MacGregor
Oh they do.
01:12:36.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
it's It's very difficult to... um Like I can't check my email and then do a lap. over my social media and not end up angry about something or sad.
01:12:47.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, it's like, oh.
01:12:48.05
Brian MacGregor
No, it's it's a blue light. yeah it's the blue light that comes off the screen
01:12:50.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like. Nothing terrible happened in the world today, but aw, this person that I know peripherally lost their pet.
01:12:54.50
Brian MacGregor
Yeah.
01:12:57.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
How awful. And then I'll, you know, I'm thinking about that when I go to bed. So. Yeah. And that's the thing is that sleep is so important and yet it can be difficult to discern.
01:13:11.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
at what point it's like a health problem that requires medical intervention. because yeah like like you're pointing out depending on how you were raised you might never feel that way or something very severe would have to happen.
01:13:26.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, like falling asleep at the wheel or you know something crazy like that.
01:13:29.27
Brian MacGregor
Right. Exactly. And and actually one one of my best friends. He... He... like later like he has a way where he has an arc so it's way worse than than i do so we have these conversations often about uh lack of sleep. and And et cetera. And so.
01:13:48.46
Brian MacGregor
he Literally. Yeah. Hey y 'all. did drive off a road once. and It's awesome.
01:13:54.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
Ugh, that's so scary.
01:13:54.36
Brian MacGregor
it's And he he not nods asleep. sometimes when um When it gets too warm in a room or like you just finished eating or. Or we're playing a board game that's getting to a boring place. it's starts to go ah go awake and we have to just kind of shake him.
01:14:10.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
Ha ha! Kind of hard not to take that personally, my goodness.
01:14:10.72
Brian MacGregor
So I...
01:14:13.89
Brian MacGregor
Oh, I don't. I haven't done it for so long, so I don't think I personally can.
01:14:17.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
it
01:14:17.60
Brian MacGregor
but like i don't have that like i know i don't have that it's it's more uh you know. smaller things but but
01:14:27.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
So does this struggle? Find its way into your work. Or did it ever?
01:14:32.29
Brian MacGregor
It does.
01:14:32.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
i mean I think you mentioned before you were doing... things that were not as as bright and positive as as what you do now. Tell us about that.
01:14:42.82
Brian MacGregor
Oh, sure. Yeah. So, I mean, that that's this is what brought in the dreams for me. so Bye.
01:14:50.54
Brian MacGregor
this The most severe time. Probably not the most severe, but pretty close to the most severe. time like ah in college after a breakup. I... Couldn't sleep for a month.
01:15:02.27
Brian MacGregor
A whole month. like um I used to know the exact hours and days and all that shit, but I mean, I... Definitely went to...
01:15:13.46
Brian MacGregor
a very dark place in my mind and so much so that people i could see people didn't want to be around me and avoided rooms and stuff that i was in i didn't even have to say anything it's just the energy that i'm projecting Right.
01:15:26.64
Brian MacGregor
and when I finally was able to go to sleep again. And I... Did it have to take some kind of medication to knock myself out. uh which worked When I went to sleep, I had like this epiphany kind of dream.
01:15:42.21
Brian MacGregor
we're I had. Eight dreams in a row. i've never had that before i've had two or three different kinds of dreams that i could breakdown as to what those dreams are so i knew they were distinctly different dreams But this was the first time in my life and ever.
01:15:57.82
Brian MacGregor
Go ahead. Eight. different, distinct dreams as in they took place in a different place. uh different characters around them maybe it was a different time period maybe it was a different theme etc right
01:16:11.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:16:11.52
Brian MacGregor
And so when I woke up from that, I was like, Holy crap. So I wrote them down and I remembered them backwards. I remembered... the dream from the one that was the most fresh. from waking up.
01:16:21.97
Brian MacGregor
And then I remembered the second one, I wrote it down. And I went, oh, wow. and I don't remember the third one. Oh, oh shit. And I keep remembering further back. And... The Insight.
01:16:33.04
Brian MacGregor
that I gathered from... How those dreams were structured. the characters that were in them. the different types of archetypes. that were involved.
01:16:43.99
Brian MacGregor
Um, just so many different aspects of dreams and how they play out. became very apparent to me and i just i just absolutely like thought it was really really fascinating and i had been reading writing down my dreams ah before this.
01:17:00.37
Brian MacGregor
for a number of years since I was 10. So I was already familiar with this world. This wasn't new. But this was a major really kind of insight. And it gave me something positive to think about.
01:17:12.35
Brian MacGregor
And after I slept. and i took notes on this and stuff i was making sure that i didn't do this because i was taking showers all the time I was. eating little bits of food because I wasn't hungry, but I was forcing myself to eat.
01:17:25.68
Brian MacGregor
And all this stuff. So before. And then after I finally got... And this was after. four hours of sleep. my dear was not much But that four hours of sleep was... Phew. That's such a like a life. invigorating thing I woke up from that and suddenly.
01:17:43.67
Brian MacGregor
people are not running away from me and I was able to be around people and it was a positive kind of thing. and uh Bye. just got to work on a whole other series of pieces inspired from dreams.
01:17:57.39
Brian MacGregor
inspired from those dreams that I had. And it was just a really... Um... Therapeutic? process.
01:18:07.79
Brian MacGregor
going through all this. And that series was really popular too. like People really liked it. I did a solo show with it. i sold a whole bunch of the paintings from that show uh people loved the dream text.
01:18:21.37
Brian MacGregor
So I... glued the dream text into the backgrounds of the paintings. And at that particular time, there were it started off with my own dreams and then over time uh from talking to people about this work other people kind of came to me said Oh, I had this really.
01:18:39.58
Brian MacGregor
cool dream that was very powerful in my life and this that and the other happened And. So i I would interview people and I wrote them down. And then after from that.
01:18:50.95
Brian MacGregor
would have started showing in galleries. I had a place that was constantly showing. so i hung a Dreams are on the wall. And I invited the public to write in it. So I've been doing that now.
01:19:01.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh my gosh!
01:19:04.08
Brian MacGregor
Yeah, and so I've been doing that now since 2003. 23 years.
01:19:07.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
that's Amazing! You are blowing my mind right now.
01:19:10.31
Brian MacGregor
so
01:19:11.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
this This whole story is just blowing my... I can't even remember my own character's names half the time. And and listen to what you... I mean... Yeah, my my mind is blown right now. This is incredible.
01:19:22.92
Brian MacGregor
so So this kept developing over the years, right? And then I would talk to people, people would come up to me. And so I've talked about insomnia with people and I've talked about like... dreams, different things. in like And I really want people to write down. but Not just the dream they had last night, or not just...
01:19:39.46
Brian MacGregor
the dream of like being naked in the classroom. Not those.
01:19:44.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
01:19:43.95
Brian MacGregor
But like the more. what is that really more unique one that you've had that Somebody else hasn't had that. That one that. um
01:19:53.50
Brian MacGregor
uh for instance like i kind of dream where somebody told me about like They were driving a car and like went over a cliff and it started flipping in the air and then they passed through the car like as if they were a ghost or something.
01:20:04.18
Brian MacGregor
and then like land gently on the grass in the car like you know flies off in the distance or something. Dreams that are just really... surreal and all inspiring and unique and kind of...
01:20:16.43
Brian MacGregor
transformative and I want people to write down those. So I've asked people to do that. Yeah, I know. Thousands of them. that I've collected over the years from ah different languages to all ages of people from It's mostly...
01:20:31.16
Brian MacGregor
A lot of teenagers, of course, right?
01:20:33.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm.
01:20:33.95
Brian MacGregor
um Less people in their 40s and 50s, which makes sense for busy We dream less during that time period. and then people that are older so it's used from Mostly.
01:20:46.57
Brian MacGregor
ah Teenagers in the 20s. In the book. Kids. And then it's like 60 plus. Those are the most.
01:20:54.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
01:20:55.64
Brian MacGregor
And then people in between of different varying ages.
01:20:56.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:20:58.82
Brian MacGregor
and stuff that but also write it down.
01:21:02.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
wow Now, this is going to sound like a non sequitur, but do you have an Apple Watch?
01:21:09.50
Brian MacGregor
I do not
01:21:10.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. And the reason I'm asking. is is ah like twofold. One is that an Apple Watch will... watch your sleep for you and tell you and show you exactly how much time you've spent in REM sleep.
01:21:24.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
So if you're someone who catalogs their dreams, that could be very helpful information to have.
01:21:26.46
Brian MacGregor
and
01:21:29.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, I have apnea and it also messes up my heart.
01:21:31.78
Brian MacGregor
It's such a respect.
01:21:32.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
So the other thing an Apple Watch will do is tell you your numbers while you're sleeping, what your heart rate is, how much oxygen you're getting, what your respiratory rate is.
01:21:33.03
Brian MacGregor
Hmm.
01:21:43.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
It'll tell you all of that. So that if you're you're keeping track. You'll know. more than just because I find that it can take me. you know, nine or 10 hours to get five or six hours of sleep.
01:21:58.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because even with a CPAP, I wake up a lot.
01:21:59.45
Brian MacGregor
Right.
01:22:01.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
So yeah, I'm bringing it up for that reason, because I think you might find it fascinating, the information that you can get from it.
01:22:08.54
Brian MacGregor
That's a good point.
01:22:08.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
And.
01:22:09.52
Brian MacGregor
i so My inclination is because I don't... I don't like technology so but i realize i live in a world that i have to deal with it so i have to I'm a paper and pencil.
01:22:16.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure. Sure. Hmph.
01:22:21.52
Brian MacGregor
Good guy.
01:22:21.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm.
01:22:22.28
Brian MacGregor
Just straight up. I am hardcore that way. I don't even, people draw on iPads and like. Good for you. fuck I draw on paper first.
01:22:30.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
You haven't. any you You haven't invested in the Cintiq.
01:22:32.37
Brian MacGregor
i draw on paper first
01:22:34.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
Is that really for you?
01:22:36.78
Brian MacGregor
No, it's not for me. I...
01:22:38.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
01:22:38.30
Brian MacGregor
I i find I like to draw things physically. I like the size of things and I scan it in. and things every Unfortunately, everything has become digital. But I like to work in the real first and then bring it in. So I'm saying this.
01:22:53.41
Brian MacGregor
my initial input you brought up the apple watch i was like oh god i would couldn't sleep with that on But then. I tell myself no. She has valid points. This is a good idea. Think about this. Do this once or twice.
01:23:04.14
Brian MacGregor
Because it could be something really interesting. I think my wife has an Apple Watch. I wouldn't go buy one for this. But. That. would be cool. to actually try that. and do that for a couple of nights.
01:23:16.99
Brian MacGregor
and write beth write down the feedback. that i get from that.
01:23:20.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, well, and the older models are really affordable right now.
01:23:20.88
Brian MacGregor
But yeah
01:23:23.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
You can get one for, you know, 200 bucks or whatever if they're they're not.
01:23:28.04
Brian MacGregor
Nice.
01:23:27.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
prohibitively expensive on many budgets. Um.
01:23:31.35
Brian MacGregor
It... yeah it's more of the of the fear of then liking it and then i have another technology that i have hanging around me.
01:23:39.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I can certainly understand that.
01:23:40.75
Brian MacGregor
We're like, oh, this is useful. And now it's another thing.
01:23:44.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, it's very easy to get addicted to. All of those devices are very easy to get addicted to. We're an Apple household, so we have a lot of the main Apple stuff.
01:23:50.93
Brian MacGregor
Yes. Same. Same.
01:23:54.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
Not not the home control stuff. That's a little demon seed for me. but um plus we're in an apartment so i don't want to hook up a robot to control my heat or whatever but Yeah, I get it. I get i get the... ah the i mean i don't want to use the word luddite because i think that's kind of insulting but I can't decide if that's an insulting word or not.
01:24:15.19
Brian MacGregor
Um. I'm...
01:24:17.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
If it's, you know.
01:24:18.18
Brian MacGregor
there There was a slow to adopt. was like a term i think uh
01:24:22.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:24:23.46
Brian MacGregor
There was something something like that. and i Definitely that. for sure for like technology i am a slower adopt
01:24:27.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
no
01:24:30.96
Brian MacGregor
Kind of got like... I... Something comes out, I'm like... Cool. I will see that in five to 10 years from now.
01:24:37.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I definitely don't want to buy the alpha version of something. I think when I wanted a Kindle, I waited like two years because I wanted the price to come down, but I also wanted them to work the bugs out of it before I bought one.
01:24:50.02
Brian MacGregor
Yeah, it's all the above. um I also get. I'm not. See, I'm definitely full of conundrums because I'm not in my ways because I'm constantly adapting my ah my processes of things.
01:24:59.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm.
01:25:00.86
Brian MacGregor
But I... Do you tend to like... ah certain aspects of how I work. And then. Like I have a GoPro, right? So I use that and I'll film. stuff so i have an app on my phone that i do like the videos and stuff and that i've had to kind of teach myself.
01:25:14.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm
01:25:16.46
Brian MacGregor
of Okay, now I guess um ah I make videos and stuff too, because that's... That's important. for the socials and all the stuff.
01:25:25.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
01:25:25.38
Brian MacGregor
And. So there's... there's there's things in my life that I'm having to do that with but that and I have a Yeah. we're talking right now through.
01:25:36.76
Brian MacGregor
Apple EarPods. computer. Which?
01:25:40.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm.
01:25:40.59
Brian MacGregor
Also, like I have an app, so what when I'm drawing and painting, especially on murals, I listen to audiobooks.
01:25:47.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh nice. Nice.
01:25:49.11
Brian MacGregor
Ciao. It's great listening to Dungeon Crawler Carl right now.
01:25:52.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
Hehehehehehe.
01:25:52.39
Brian MacGregor
so eating through those and it's Fantastic.
01:25:58.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, well, Deniman, he's he's just great.
01:25:58.75
Brian MacGregor
and i oh
01:26:00.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
I love that guy. Um, So you're you're actually working on a magazine article right now. I would like to hear more about that.
01:26:08.79
Brian MacGregor
Sure, yeah. so um Dreamtime magazine. It's with IASD. So that's the International Association for the Study of Dreams. That sort of thing.
01:26:19.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:26:19.82
Brian MacGregor
So I've been associated with them for... 20 plus years now. One of the members came into the gallery I used to show in here in Savannah. ah before Before I open my own studio gallery.
01:26:34.40
Brian MacGregor
And. Just like. Loved my work right away. Saw the dream pages. I was like, oh. you would love this group like you need to come to one of the conventions So I went to one of them that's and they... Do them a different. places around the world and Europe to...
01:26:48.34
Brian MacGregor
one of the ones I went to to California, california New York. and all over, right? um they change up the place. once a year where they do them. And it's for about four days. And they have a whole conference where they talk about the latest dream studies.
01:27:02.09
Brian MacGregor
sleep studies. etc. And.
01:27:05.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mhm.
01:27:06.03
Brian MacGregor
uh very much from a carl jung standpoint which is great because that's that's That's my main influence, not less of a Freudian viewpoint, but more of a Carl Jung viewpoint. So thankfully they do as well.
01:27:18.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now, just to let everybody know, Jung is the guy with the id, the ego and the superego.
01:27:18.82
Brian MacGregor
Um,
01:27:23.85
Brian MacGregor
<unk>ud
01:27:25.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
That was Freud? Wait, which guy is young? Wait, is he the The shadow self guy.
01:27:29.08
Brian MacGregor
So.
01:27:31.75
Brian MacGregor
ah Yeah, they both have ah elements of that, but yeah, so... um Carl Jung took more from, I'll just try and sum up. More from. a worldview.
01:27:44.16
Brian MacGregor
Right? So he saw things from like different cultures. So he got more like inspiration from different cultures. uh about dreams and like yeah and sleepwear I'd say Freud was more focused.
01:27:57.87
Brian MacGregor
on. Uh... be just European background kind of things and your mother in early childhood. and young. Expanded that.
01:28:08.81
Brian MacGregor
into... aspects of the archetypes. synchronicity so into a much much broader kind of um viewpoint. I guess would be a good way to say it.
01:28:18.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. Okay.
01:28:22.42
Brian MacGregor
uh Freud was much more of a narrower kind of thing. It was still... You know, and obviously he's the most famous of... the psychologist and therapist at that time.
01:28:32.65
Brian MacGregor
but um we've actually moved on. pretty far away from both of them. but Young would be one that. Currently, people still come. reference more of I would say.
01:28:44.61
Brian MacGregor
Feels like.
01:28:46.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. Yeah, I used to be super into Abnormal Psych. and um It had actually led to like me being one of those people that's always watching the serial killer streamers.
01:29:00.03
Brian MacGregor
Mhm.
01:28:59.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, all those And that's... can have an impact on mental health over time. so i've I try to put some limits on that if I can, even though I'm a horror person.
01:29:06.98
Brian MacGregor
Yes.
01:29:11.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sometimes it's just, it's a little much because I start to realize like, oh my God, my door was left unlocked. How am I still alive? You know, like it, it gives you ah a rather bleak interpretation of the world around you.
01:29:25.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
I actually think helicopter parenting is a direct result of police procedurals and their popularity. And. uh streamers on serial killer shows that it it definitely makes people more suspicious of each other
01:29:33.05
Brian MacGregor
Oh for sure.
01:29:39.34
Brian MacGregor
Yeah, a thousand percent. yeah i mean just all these different tracking devices on all their phones and stuff i mean like that blows me away how people like freely. Give away all that information. But anyway, back to dream time. ah Magazine.
01:29:56.13
Brian MacGregor
uh so it's it's great so like in that magazine they talk about like ah again like all the latest dream science kind of stuff and so my my article was talking about um ah the past 20 years, so in 2006.
01:30:10.15
Brian MacGregor
uh one of the great dream conferences and they have an art show that they do which is really cool that they do this uh So they have an art show where everybody like different people can. obviously contribute that are going to the convention. And. ah This one year is the first year they did an award. that had like a monetary value to it and whatnot.
01:30:32.72
Brian MacGregor
So they gave an award. i won I won the first place for it. And it was a really big deal to me. at that time.
01:30:38.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure.
01:30:40.20
Brian MacGregor
And I was thinking about... potentially maybe even moving on to a different subject of dream away from dreams. I had been doing it for about three years at that time. in 2006. And.
01:30:51.36
Brian MacGregor
I was like, oh, maybe I'm done. I don't know. And just from the feedback. from this group. of how much they understood. what I was doing with my fine art staff.
01:31:01.52
Brian MacGregor
It was just. phenomenal so that's kind of like what i ended up writing about in this um Dreamtime magazine enough. pretty much kind of how things over the past 20 years have morphed and changed from.
01:31:14.52
Brian MacGregor
that event. In my work um to collecting more dreams with them in different languages and how it evolved. kind of over time. How? I started doing some pieces for people.
01:31:26.93
Brian MacGregor
really powerful pieces that were like... ah Either somebody in the family had... cancer or we're dying or terminal disease or this, that or the other. and they wanted to do a portrait.
01:31:38.47
Brian MacGregor
painting of them, but not necessarily a literal portrait. But.
01:31:42.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:31:42.70
Brian MacGregor
one that filled with symbolism. and like dream symbols and this, that, and the other. of that person and that work is just i mean talk about it emotional impact.
01:31:58.35
Brian MacGregor
right like pieces that the the family is really gonna like value and cherish.
01:31:59.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure. Yeah.
01:32:03.46
Brian MacGregor
and to like be a part of that is such an honor to be asked to do that kind of stuff So there was a wave when like I did a whole lot of work like that. So. kind of talk about. those pieces. And then to how...
01:32:17.42
Brian MacGregor
Things have shift. I didn't talk about in the article about. COVID. Thought about that kind of later. of how that time period kind of shifted the the art scene in savannah and my gallery and stuff and at just different things. and aspects of how certain stuff has changed. So I've pivoted more towards doing kind of commercial kind of murals and stuff i still do the dream work And...
01:32:43.98
Brian MacGregor
Those pieces. But in a way now. that work. can be even more focused. and powerful. on an individual basis.
01:32:56.84
Brian MacGregor
because of the time that I spend with them.
01:32:57.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:32:59.14
Brian MacGregor
Does that make sense?
01:33:00.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, absolutely.
01:33:00.67
Brian MacGregor
And then... Yeah, and then ah And I still, and I. love my Thankfully. ah My. commercial pieces and murals and stuff, I do very much have a lot of enjoyment out of doing to them. And. like other people do too, but it's a different kind of body of work.
01:33:18.68
Brian MacGregor
So I'm just kind of like branched out more from. during that that time. So it's it's just like a... I think it's important for all of us. To go back over like.
01:33:28.91
Brian MacGregor
a 20 year time. Period. and think about. our workers. uh, grown and shifted and where are we going? currently.
01:33:38.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, that that actually makes a ton of sense, and it kind of hits hard for me right now, because I'm in the process of re-releasing my long-form horror fiction catalog. um which is only three books but They came out in. ah Two of them, well, 2007, 2009 and 2012 is when they initially came out.
01:34:00.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, uh... So yeah, so reading over my my novel, my debut novel that I started writing in 2000. Three, I think? Is uh...
01:34:11.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's been enlightening and embarrassing, kind of like when you find your high school. poetry journal or your i guess in your case your art journal just that whole like
01:34:18.35
Brian MacGregor
sure Of course.
01:34:21.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow. I'm glad I'm better. No one tell anyone about this. you know it ah Yeah, and it it's such a... interesting way to reflect.
01:34:33.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
not just on your work and how it's grown, but obviously on on you and your life and how it's different now. So. So yeah, that's that is highly relatable.
01:34:43.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
Highly relatable. Um,
01:34:45.67
Brian MacGregor
ah Yeah, and it it helps us grow. I mean, it helps us grow, helps us think. And. i don't know i don't Want to be like. pigeonholed into certain things or feel like um uh the i want to feel like the universe is guiding me in a direction not pushing me
01:35:05.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure, sure.
01:35:06.03
Brian MacGregor
Does that make sense? uh so what i'm
01:35:07.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
I don't remember who said that the unexamined life is not worth living, but it's true.
01:35:12.97
Brian MacGregor
Mmm.
01:35:14.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's very true.
01:35:14.76
Brian MacGregor
Yes, I do know that quote. Yes, it is very true.
01:35:16.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
Hmm.
01:35:17.82
Brian MacGregor
Yeah, I... as artists and creatives. We were very fortunate. to... even be exposed to these thoughts.
01:35:28.37
Brian MacGregor
and to do this kind of stuff that i would say a lot of
01:35:28.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
mm-hmm
01:35:31.53
Brian MacGregor
There's a lot of people, especially in the States. That. just don't even it doesn't even occur to them until much much much later on life to even be reflective and think about like kind of where they are
01:35:40.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right, and then you know what they do? Those those unreflective people that don't want to do the inner work. Those are the ones that go to chat GPT or whatever and say, make me something.
01:35:50.58
Brian MacGregor
Yes.
01:35:51.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then they pretend to be an artist. And it makes me so mad because the whole point, I mean, they're called the humanities. That's what we call the arts.
01:36:01.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
So if you're just getting some sort of like. computerized Sudoku to to. puzzle together a bunch of scraps of other people's work and pretend like you made it.
01:36:14.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'm. I'm so offended by the concept of it. Plus, you know, it it takes work away from from people like me who need to work from home. And the writing jobs go away because people would rather just use an AI, even if it's wrong, even if it's...
01:36:23.57
Brian MacGregor
Thanks for having me. Exactly.
01:36:29.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
bad even if you know the the work itself isn't even very good it's like Do you just want a thing or do you want a good thing? that came from inside of a person.
01:36:42.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because that's, I mean, really at its core. Art is about translating emotion into something tangible. or experience or or concepts and thoughts.
01:36:53.64
Brian MacGregor
Yes.
01:36:53.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
And. AI doesn't have any of those things.
01:36:55.08
Brian MacGregor
Very much so.
01:36:56.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
It doesn't have life experience. It hasn't had its heart broken.
01:36:58.83
Brian MacGregor
No, that's it.
01:36:59.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
It hasn't had ah its house catch on fire. like it it Doesn't. live so it can't explain what it feels like to live, which is what art is for.
01:37:11.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know
01:37:11.87
Brian MacGregor
ai AI is a plagiarism machine that shoots for the middle.
01:37:15.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm. Yes.
01:37:17.25
Brian MacGregor
So it shoots from it shoots for mid right That's its goal.
01:37:20.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:37:21.11
Brian MacGregor
That is its goal.
01:37:21.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:37:21.84
Brian MacGregor
Its its goal is made. it's it's In all honesty, like they say, they scan in all their artwork and books. and all all of this material and then they to seal it down.
01:37:30.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well... Isn't there an AI that's, I think... There's an AI that's literally called mid-journey.
01:37:38.89
Brian MacGregor
Yes, there is.
01:37:39.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like... Like, that's insane!
01:37:41.60
Brian MacGregor
Oh that's funny.
01:37:42.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's like, why are you...
01:37:43.04
Brian MacGregor
That's funny, but yes.
01:37:44.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
why
01:37:46.29
Brian MacGregor
But yes, well so they they've it's really obvious in posters. So there's been a lot of comments about that.
01:37:50.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes.
01:37:51.10
Brian MacGregor
People are like, I'm not going to go to a anything with posters.
01:37:51.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes.
01:37:53.83
Brian MacGregor
So in posters, it's extremely obvious. right so it goes directly to the mid so it becomes really really apparent the second that you see it so we're all becoming very very aware of it where it becomes that there's more shades of gray when it comes to writing.
01:38:10.34
Brian MacGregor
and within fine art kind of kind of work and prints and kind of stuff because it's a little bit harder for the... ah the average people to see it. But in posters, it's it's just like... you know I mean... It's so clearly obvious.
01:38:21.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:38:23.83
Brian MacGregor
ah But I wanted to say, too, so there's a...
01:38:24.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
in
01:38:27.02
Brian MacGregor
There's a friend of mine, collector. and novel. All right. or a writer. Daryl. Grizzle. Zee Grizzle. i've done some artwork illustrations and stuff for him for his books ah for some of his short stories and stuff before, one called...
01:38:45.51
Brian MacGregor
Um, I never meant to start a murder cult.
01:38:49.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh my.
01:38:50.02
Brian MacGregor
So. I'm just putting this out there that he might be a cool guest for you in the future.
01:38:55.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, yeah, well
01:38:55.77
Brian MacGregor
And...
01:38:57.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, to have him listen to this episode and if he likes me, he should hit me up.
01:39:01.00
Brian MacGregor
I... I will. I will. i'm Just putting that out there. But... I'm going with that because he... Could have. Just... Not at the time, because it didn't exist when he did this. I don't remember when the book was, but I think 10 years ago.
01:39:15.99
Brian MacGregor
um But he could now. He could have just typed in the imagery that he wanted for this book. instead of hiring me.
01:39:23.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure, absolutely.
01:39:24.47
Brian MacGregor
Yeah. You could have used AI.
01:39:24.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and i I hear that a ton from writers.
01:39:25.69
Brian MacGregor
and Good night.
01:39:28.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
They write the book themselves, according to them. But because they can't draw and they don't have a lot of money, they use that as an excuse to have an AI cover. And obviously no one should buy an AI written book because why would you bother to read someone that... Some. that they couldn't bother to write it you know like what what even is that but the cover Like.
01:39:52.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
I wouldn't buy a book with an AI cover because I'm just morally opposed to generative AI. But it makes me so mad that people will say, oh, I wrote the book myself, so it's okay to use an AI cover. And I understand the concept of it because when...
01:40:11.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
AI graphics first became available I was using them. I used them on the magazine that I published because I thought that it was basically like Photoshop. that it was a computer just like creating it out of out of like you know pictures and whatever. like I didn't realize that it was all made of stolen art.
01:40:32.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
And between that and coming to understand the environmental impact, I was like, oh, shit. I need to stop doing this immediately. So we stopped doing it.
01:40:41.30
Brian MacGregor
If they had...
01:40:42.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
We admitted it in the magazine.
01:40:42.81
Brian MacGregor
Yeah.
01:40:43.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
We did a mea culpa saying like, okay, we didn't know, but we get it now. Because I think transparency is important. Admit what you did. um and then move forward doing better, which is what we tried to do. We don't have the magazine anymore because it was costing me too much money.
01:40:59.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
And wasn't. you know, I gave it three years to be profitable and that, that didn't happen. so Yeah, anyway.
01:41:06.86
Brian MacGregor
but Yeah, I mean I have Been taking on a nuanced-ish view of it. I will just say from the beginning. They grew up. Well, the Air Cavaliers could have... done a much better job and they just just They just came out with cannons. blaring at the creative.
01:41:22.93
Brian MacGregor
community which was just terrible so i i studied illustration right
01:41:23.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm.
01:41:27.15
Brian MacGregor
college. the entire point, the whole point. of illustration. So you create an artwork. And then any use, it doesn't matter what it is. Cover. It doesn't matter. Amy. use scan it Whatever.
01:41:41.25
Brian MacGregor
you pay a percentage. of use So. number of book covers that something's on, magazine, etc., depending on how broad. Um, of range it's been going to be printed that that's where the scale goes up for price, right?
01:41:56.29
Brian MacGregor
That's the business model.
01:41:57.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm.
01:41:58.46
Brian MacGregor
Well, they just stole it. and scanned it in. So, but On one hand, They say. The art is not valuable. Well, if the earth's not valuable, then don't, then you.
01:42:09.38
Brian MacGregor
then don't scan it in.
01:42:10.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:42:12.61
Brian MacGregor
So. you go then go buy your own artwork. or pay a percentage. to then use that. our work to scan into this machine. So on the one hand, singing it has no value. so that that they just steal it.
01:42:26.39
Brian MacGregor
but then wanting to sell the product. of to create it at the end. It makes no sense. ah the The argument makes no sense whatsoever. Now...
01:42:34.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and they got pretty mad when Quartz said you can't copyright AI art.
01:42:35.35
Brian MacGregor
if they
01:42:40.19
Brian MacGregor
Yes. Thank God that happened.
01:42:42.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
it
01:42:42.50
Brian MacGregor
ah But like they could have gone a different route. They... they they could have given certain artists like a percentage they could have hired people to have done that the amount of goodwill that would have made they could have gone a very different route and people would have a very different.
01:42:55.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
mm-hmm
01:42:56.55
Brian MacGregor
opinion of the y6 they could have done that but they chose not to They also could have taken... taken anything over 50 years right so gone from the 70s and below and just use that artwork and said future models may have something different.
01:43:04.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm.
01:43:11.22
Brian MacGregor
But. our model we've only taken this Thank you. could have done that. And that also would have been acceptable. that would have been fine. And like things that are copyright free, et cetera. It's been a while.
01:43:22.76
Brian MacGregor
And then... So a model like that. where if they had done something like that and then you've given this program to artists and they and you say,
01:43:33.44
Brian MacGregor
Now you can add in your own artwork. that you've been doing for a couple of decades into this. And... to come up with a concept for something. Right?
01:43:44.44
Brian MacGregor
To type in an idea and then it creates you a concept not that the final result, right?
01:43:44.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:43:48.38
Brian MacGregor
I don't believe in that now the final result but to create your concept of it inspired by your own work. I see a value in that. I could see how that could be very helpful.
01:43:59.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
So that's, ah I think, called a Laura, where it's...
01:43:59.97
Brian MacGregor
um I...
01:44:03.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
01:44:03.67
Brian MacGregor
Yes.
01:44:04.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
and you You sort of put it over an existing. ah ai and then yeah because writers are doing that too they're feeding their own work into it And then that creates their own model so that they can have it outlined and even draft in some cases in their own style.
01:44:22.02
Brian MacGregor
Yeah, there's a slippery slope where it can become. You're just making yourself. also made and you don't. because you don't grow. Um, i I personally have not used any of the AI. stuff myself again.
01:44:36.47
Brian MacGregor
I slowly adopt. I push all this stuff out. I don't. I don't
01:44:40.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
But.
01:44:40.97
Brian MacGregor
want it i don't want it i didn don't even want it in my life
01:44:41.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
Best thing for you, really.
01:44:43.67
Brian MacGregor
I don't want it in my life. I don't want another thing. that I don't want another bill. like I don't want it.
01:44:47.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure, sure
01:44:49.40
Brian MacGregor
But like. um i have taken an interest like interesting nuanced view on this. standpoint from. I've had several clients starting this year. right in January.
01:45:00.27
Brian MacGregor
and through this year. Now it's been four. I think three or four clients. that have... Brought me. an AI image. for like what they want as a reference.
01:45:13.23
Brian MacGregor
So... but This gets interesting because I'm on many different groups of different mural groups and people are like, oh oh no, anti-blood, this, that, the other. I'm like... No guys, you don't understand. This is... This is actually the... one acceptable. view of this to me personally.
01:45:29.16
Brian MacGregor
They're not using it as the end result. That I am firmly 1 ,000 % against. You don't just type something into AI and then just use that. That's...
01:45:40.76
Brian MacGregor
Awful. Trash. But... I... Yet. where it can be helpful for a client to sit and to talk to me. and say I want something similar to this.
01:45:53.44
Brian MacGregor
And also, again... Not that they're bringing me this thing saying, I want exactly this. that I'm going to have a deep conversation with them. about them. Ha ha.
01:46:03.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:46:04.51
Brian MacGregor
they they bring me this image of something and they say like here's these flowers and blah blah blah blah that's this kind of thing about Um, this room, you know for like for this mural and i go cool that's cool uh so to me like this Doesn't look very interesting. i'll I'll kind of explain.
01:46:22.21
Brian MacGregor
How I'm going to elevate. The peace. and make it better. And I'm going to add in some different elements. and Uh... and bring my own style into it.
01:46:32.92
Brian MacGregor
And I have that conversation with him before I even draw it. Then they go, oh, okay, cool. That's great. And I get a deposit. And then I start working on. the image inspired by what they sent me.
01:46:46.29
Brian MacGregor
Before, people were sending me clips from Google, you know image references and this, that, and the other.
01:46:46.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean...
01:46:51.32
Brian MacGregor
This I have. I have much... less disdain for her. I'm i'm more of like... borderline okay. with that.
01:47:02.23
Brian MacGregor
Use. Love it.
01:47:03.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and that's a I mean, it it can be very difficult. particularly for someone who doesn't create as a part of their regular life. to find the words to express what they want visually.
01:47:17.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, like that's that's not a skill that everyone has.
01:47:17.70
Brian MacGregor
Very much so.
01:47:20.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
I wish there was a way to mitigate the environmental impact. I think that's going to take us way forward in terms of like. practical non-theft related AI use.
01:47:32.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
01:47:32.74
Brian MacGregor
Fully agreed.
01:47:33.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because that's that's the part that's hard to justify, especially me, you know, as a poor person, the electric.
01:47:33.71
Brian MacGregor
Bye.
01:47:39.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
build hikes that we have had especially i mean the summer has been pretty hot so we've been running the air um
01:47:42.23
Brian MacGregor
little
01:47:46.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
They're they're crippling I mean...
01:47:47.21
Brian MacGregor
we've been having We've been having them here too.
01:47:49.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, like, it's it's rough.
01:47:49.50
Brian MacGregor
Yeah. I love this.
01:47:51.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
So.
01:47:52.42
Brian MacGregor
Yeah.
01:47:52.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
I... We'll look forward to seeing a way to mitigate that because, I mean, there are things. that AI are good for. What I am opposed to, and I and think you are too, is is generative AI in the arts or as the arts.
01:48:08.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know, like as some sort of replacement for for human art. um So yeah, I think ultimately we're on the same page on that. We're actually nearing the end of our time.
01:48:21.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I had i had one quick question for you, even though it it might have a ah huge answer.
01:48:24.45
Brian MacGregor
By all means.
01:48:26.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
But let's say you have unlimited money. unlimited supplies and all the time in the world what would you create and where would you put it
01:48:37.80
Brian MacGregor
oh I mean, okay, sure. i create art centers no i mean similar to city market art center that i'm in now ah Unlimited. supplies, and or yeah. but I would create... an arts center in every city.
01:48:52.92
Brian MacGregor
around the world that people could have. either rent out spaces kind of similar to to myself. currently. um That is basically like job incubator space.
01:49:04.20
Brian MacGregor
the creator spaces.
01:49:04.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure.
01:49:05.90
Brian MacGregor
um That can be almost anything for small business. So I'm going to get. I'm going to go to travel because I've traveled around the world. and see many things that kind of like inspire these ideas so in morocco for instance Um,
01:49:20.41
Brian MacGregor
I was there with a friend and that was from morocco and they were taking me to different places so we we're gonna make dinner for the night Well, we stopped by. no more than like say 16 or more. different stalls. to pick up.
01:49:35.05
Brian MacGregor
onions Pick up this, that, and the other, et cetera, right? All these different. things for the meal. We pay. individual people all the way around. So you're getting the best onions. You're getting the best bread. you're getting the best from e etc e etc from all these different people You're not going to one corporation.
01:49:53.30
Brian MacGregor
Yeah, we do. All these people that are focused and passionate and love what they do.
01:49:55.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
mm-hmm
01:49:59.100
Brian MacGregor
for a meal. And you've just supported you've just supported a little tiny a little bit for all these people in your own community. And I think on a level. with something like that for the arts.
01:50:11.81
Brian MacGregor
It'd just be like... mind-blowingly awesome. Just from the standpoint to from. talking about this psychological aspect of how many people, and myself included, uh the arts have been have saved literally saved my life.
01:50:26.45
Brian MacGregor
and continues to save my life. every day and all the time. And. being able to have spaces. I knew as a teenager how special City Market in Savannah was.
01:50:38.75
Brian MacGregor
was India's. And I knew I wanted to get into that space. And I've traveled all around. I've seen similar kind of things, not terribly as much as that. Um,
01:50:49.63
Brian MacGregor
And there's a few kind of incubator spaces kind of similar to that, like Asheville and different. different places around. Oh. Bye. more of those many, many more of those to where it's affordable.
01:51:01.97
Brian MacGregor
and easy for people to just be creative. Yeah.
01:51:06.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
Fantastic.
01:51:06.96
Brian MacGregor
There you go.
01:51:07.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
Love it. Love everything about it. Was there anything that you wanted to talk about that we did not get to? I mean, I know we covered a lot out of good space
01:51:15.90
Brian MacGregor
Won't cover it all. we covered a lot of We covered a lot of ground. um From... Yeah, no we covered a lot of ground, I think.
01:51:26.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:51:27.98
Brian MacGregor
Yeah.
01:51:27.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, cool. Well, we also like to give guests an opportunity to ask me a question if you have one. So if you do, now is the time for that.
01:51:39.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
You don't have to. it's not that I'm not that interesting. so you know but
01:51:42.39
Brian MacGregor
No, don't sit do not say that. ah
01:51:44.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
But if you do...
01:51:45.58
Brian MacGregor
No. So what genre, what kind of off? So you do horror mostly, right? So what genre? to like tie into it would you want to do that feels like really off kind of bass that you want to...
01:51:59.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:52:00.97
Brian MacGregor
you would want to splice in with a horn.
01:52:03.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, you know, the the funny thing about that, I actually have ah an off-genre project underway.
01:52:04.32
Brian MacGregor
our future project.
01:52:09.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
um It was supposed to be one book that was political satire. and then after the book came out something happened to flip the premise of the first book on its head so i decided to write a sequel and about halfway through it i said no this is a trilogy and i'm still working on the third book it's kind of kicking my ass but
01:52:30.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, it's ah it's a political satire, which makes a lot of sense. Because really, I call myself a horror writer. But I think if you read my work, you might. describe it as as dark comedy Because it's bloody, it's violent, and it deals with a lot of societal issues. um Unreliable narrators, I'm a big fan of those.
01:52:51.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
um So this book, ah this series. Also has an unreliable narrator. but it's it's much funnier and There aren't. Zero deaths, but fewer people die in my political satire books.
01:53:06.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
so So, yeah, that's it. Political satire is is my off-genre, for sure.
01:53:11.65
Brian MacGregor
That's great. that's great i love it
01:53:13.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
Alright, dude. It is time for the Mad Lib. Are you ready for this?
01:53:17.70
Brian MacGregor
Oh, geez. Okay. Yeah. Shoot. Let's go for it.
01:53:20.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah all right so we're gonna start with some adjectives looks like i need one two three Four adjectives.
01:53:32.02
Brian MacGregor
Okay. um Four adjectives. Oh, geez. uh Hot.
01:53:40.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Uh-huh
01:53:42.99
Brian MacGregor
ja Sandy.
01:53:46.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
Uh-huh.
01:53:51.76
Brian MacGregor
Smelly.
01:53:55.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
And one more.
01:53:56.97
Brian MacGregor
Um,
01:54:02.12
Brian MacGregor
curvy
01:54:05.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
Alright, and we need some plural nouns. Looks like one, two... Three plural nouns please.
01:54:16.89
Brian MacGregor
Okay.
01:54:24.82
Brian MacGregor
Table.
01:54:29.16
Brian MacGregor
Porch.
01:54:31.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:54:31.63
Brian MacGregor
Tower.
01:54:34.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
Alright. Alright, I'll go ahead. and Pluralize those. Uh, sorry, tables, towers, what was the other one?
01:54:42.82
Brian MacGregor
a porch.
01:54:44.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
portable Plural. that. porch. is... Okay, I need...
01:54:51.16
Brian MacGregor
i love I love games. Word games are definitely not my my forte. Board games all day long, card games.
01:54:56.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
I need. Give me a color.
01:55:04.31
Brian MacGregor
Maroon.
01:55:06.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
And... Let's see person in room is always the guest. So I'll put you in for that. I need an animal plural.
01:55:18.19
Brian MacGregor
Tiger?
01:55:20.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
Uh. And... And... ah Part of the body.
01:55:28.16
Brian MacGregor
oh
01:55:32.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wait, what was that?
01:55:34.30
Brian MacGregor
Toe
01:55:35.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
toe. and a part of the body plural.
01:55:42.82
Brian MacGregor
Pose.
01:55:45.51
Brian MacGregor
What? Sorry.
01:55:50.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
And let's see, a noun. I need two singular nouns.
01:56:02.18
Brian MacGregor
book. Um,
01:56:07.61
Brian MacGregor
Mirror.
01:56:10.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
You're looking around the room. I can feel it. um Give me a verband.
01:56:14.96
Brian MacGregor
I don't know what you're talking about.
01:56:16.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Give me a verb ending in ING.
01:56:21.13
Brian MacGregor
Smiling.
01:56:23.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, and another part of the body.
01:56:30.13
Brian MacGregor
And.
01:56:32.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
okay and this one is person in room female so i'm putting myself for that and then i need a color Another color.
01:56:41.41
Brian MacGregor
Teal.
01:56:43.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
and an article of clothing.
01:56:49.52
Brian MacGregor
Headband.
01:56:54.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. There we have it.
01:56:55.41
Brian MacGregor
And I'm not wearing a headband. That's not the room. Made that one up.
01:57:00.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, so this is a concert review. ah The Hot Maroon Tigers performed last night. and oh wait i skipped one here whoops we'll just skip that ah ah Let's see. To a oh a crowd of screaming tables.
01:57:20.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
Music editor Brian was there and had this to report. What a toe-blowing show! My toes are still ringing. the band performed all their sandy hits like Too Cool for Porches and Best Smelly Friends Forever.
01:57:38.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Between the music and the awesome laser book show, the crowd was on its feet and smiling to beat the whole night. But the music and lights were almost overshadowed by the many curvy costume changes by lead singer Lady Wednes.
01:57:56.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
It was hard to decide. Which was more hand dropping? The teal leather headband. and mirror-shaped headpiece she wore. Or. the simple gown fashioned completely from towers.
01:58:13.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow, that makes me seem very fashionable.
01:58:13.47
Brian MacGregor
Awesome.
01:58:15.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
I know, they're so irreverent.
01:58:16.03
Brian MacGregor
Yeah.
01:58:16.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'm a great fan of Mad Libs. um Brian, thank you so much for being here.
01:58:20.41
Brian MacGregor
um i love how surreal I love how surreal it is. for the for medlibs
01:58:23.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
Always, right?
01:58:25.15
Brian MacGregor
Oh it's fantastic.
01:58:25.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. Yeah, maybe um you should do a project where you take a completed Mad Lib and then like represent it visually.
01:58:27.58
Brian MacGregor
And...
01:58:33.55
Brian MacGregor
But you know what the exquisite corpse is, right?
01:58:36.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes.
01:58:37.52
Brian MacGregor
Yes, that's a visual. version of Mad Libs.
01:58:40.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, I guess so.
01:58:41.20
Brian MacGregor
I, uh...
01:58:41.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:58:42.92
Brian MacGregor
Yeah. i love I love it. such a great great game to bring people into just take these two little lines and make whatever <unk> See where it goes.
01:58:52.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
Indeed. Actually, we had Mad Libs at our wedding. um That was our wedding favor. We made our own Mad Lib books. Because we are nerds.
01:58:59.55
Brian MacGregor
Oh, that's fantastic.
01:59:02.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
Dude, I'm so glad you were here
01:59:02.99
Brian MacGregor
I don't know what you're talking about.
01:59:04.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
i am I am so glad that I met you because you are a fascinating guy. um And I'm really glad that you could be here to share your story with us. So thank you so much.
01:59:15.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I want to let listeners know that we are, well, we're in season six now.
01:59:16.25
Brian MacGregor
Thank you.
01:59:19.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
so We're... um Still dropping episodes every week. And we do remind everybody to find us on Ko-fi. You can find more information about our guests and links to transcripts and in ways to reach out to me if you want to, which you totally should. I'm amazing. All right. So we'll see everybody next week.
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