Mentally Odd Transcript: Laura, Andrew and Debbie on Education and local organizing under the new Regime

A audio version of this podcast can be found here:

Note: Andrew and Laura shared a channel, so the transcript has them both under Andrew's name. That's men for ya, stealing credit through technology. LOL  


00:00:01.49

Wednesday Lee Friday

Hello friends, you are listening to The Mentally Oddcast. My name is Wednesday Lee Friday and we are once again diverting from our normal format of one-on-one interviews with creatives. We are having our education show today. We have some educators with us and we're going to be talking about what is already happening in education.


00:00:29.85

Wednesday Lee Friday

and what could potentially happen with the new administration, and hopefully focusing on a lot of actionable tips about what you can do about it. um So let's start out with some introductions. Debbie, why don't you go first, ah tell us ah what it is that you teach, at what grade level, and also I want everybody to tell us your favorite book. So please, Debbie.


00:00:56.07

Debbie

Hi everyone, I'm Debbie, and currently I am teaching middle school and high school reading intervention, but I also have an elective class it called humanities, where we talk about the humanities. um But you know, I've taught pretty much anywhere from kindergarten up through, well actually preschool, I've done preschool too, so I've pretty much done it all. 27 years Um, or more.


00:01:24.46

Debbie

Um, let's see. Favorite book. I'm going to have to say, I have, I have several of course, but most recently the book I fell in love with was The House and the Cerulean Sea by JT Clune.


00:01:42.54

Debbie

So yeah, that's my favorite right now.


00:01:43.97

Wednesday Lee Friday

Cool. We'll have links in the description. All right. Laura, go right ahead.


00:01:49.92

Andrew

Oh, my goodness. um I'm Laura. I currently teach young fives, which is like a developmental kindergarten. And I've been teaching for over 30 years, mostly in early elementary, early childhood.


00:02:08.14

Andrew

But I have also worked in lots of different elementary levels, including sixth and eighth grade reading intervention as well. I think my favorite book for this would be A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, since we're talking about education. It's a great book that kind of gives you an introduction, kind of and what education looked like at the turn of the 20th century.


00:02:38.16

Andrew

since we're in the 21st century. And it's very apropos to what we're talking about today, I think.


00:02:45.30

Wednesday Lee Friday

Cool. Cool, Andrew.


00:02:48.85

Andrew

Hello. So I teach honors physics and AP physics in high school. I've been teaching for 34 years. I'm going to go with the books that I've read the most as opposed to favorites, which I suppose i every three or four years I tend to read through the Hobbit Lord of the Rings series.


00:03:09.14

Wednesday Lee Friday

Nerd.


00:03:10.44

Debbie

but


00:03:10.63

Andrew

Yep. I'm a physics teacher for a reason.


00:03:15.75

Wednesday Lee Friday

Fantastic, um, so let's first start out. Um, the new administration has not Officially taken effect so we don't know what president musk. Oh, but excuse me president trump will Will have in store for us. Um But we do know a lot of things are happening already as a sex writer I know that national standards for sex ed do not exist and that that's appalling but like The problem obviously is much more wide sweeping than that. um So what are your your thoughts about what's going on already?


00:03:57.63

Debbie

Um, you mean like in the past two years or.


00:04:01.49

Wednesday Lee Friday

Well, I know there's been there's been book bandings, but like things that are ah changing about education and sort of, um I mean, there's there's so much. There's the idea that teachers should be armed to prevent school shootings. That's pretty new.


00:04:16.73

Wednesday Lee Friday

ah rampant ah book bandings, like there's always been a few squeaky wheels thinking there should be book bandings, but now it it seems much more excessive. Does it just seem that way or or is it that way? I mean, maybe the news just makes it seem worse than it is.


00:04:33.87

Debbie

Oh, it's most definitely that way. um It seems that we're choosing trigger words or trigger concepts or ideas to make people fearful of what's happening in schools these days, I think. And it it just, I think it's just a lot of fear mongering and making the public schools seem like a scary place that we don't want to support.


00:05:02.61

Debbie

or that we don't want to trust. I think they're trying to undermine trust in public education in general.


00:05:08.27

Wednesday Lee Friday

Mm hmm. Yep.


00:05:10.44

Debbie

um So that is very disheartening and very, very frustrating as a public educator. public educator Yeah.


00:05:17.98

Wednesday Lee Friday

Have any of you experienced um the information that you're allowed to give students being restricted? I know there are certain historical events that people don't want to be taught anymore. I'm hearing things like slaves being referred to as workers. um Just a lot of ah not wanting to teach accurate American history because It makes white kids feel bad.


00:05:46.09

Wednesday Lee Friday

Like I've heard that said, and I don't know how prevalent that idea is because I'm not in the school system. That's why you're all here because you know what's up and i I really don't. So has, has that happened to any of you?


00:05:58.91

Wednesday Lee Friday

I wish Bre was here. We had another speaker who teaches, um, university level biology.


00:06:05.16

Andrew

Okay. Okay. Okay.


00:06:05.42

Wednesday Lee Friday

We also were supposed to have the mom of a special needs student here to talk about some of her experiences, but, uh, Because she is the mom of a special needs student, she could not make the time to be here.


00:06:17.64

Wednesday Lee Friday

Apparently that takes up a lot of time, I'm told. um but But have any of you experienced that, that you weren't allowed to teach something that you would normally teach?


00:06:21.29

Andrew

ah don't


00:06:27.43

Andrew

I don't think that's come up so much in my district, but in neighboring districts it has. And I know my husband's district, which is Andrew sitting right next to me, um it's come up a lot in his district where that's been a controversy. you You hear it being argued in the board meetings. It's come up in our board meetings, but it hasn't been.


00:06:52.32

Andrew

and an issue that's actually within our our curriculum. And our district, my district has been supportive of what our curriculum is. um It isn't something that really has has has been an issue. ah we We teach what has has really happened at the at the elementary issue, it hasn't been an issue, and at the secondary um level, it hasn't really been an issue yet. We in fact just had, it was interesting, we just had a um ah board meeting where we were getting some books um looked at for a new English course or a or of actually an English course that's already in, but they wanted to change some of the books that they were using in the English course. And the conversation had started a few months ago when they were first bringing up the discussion and then they were voting on it a couple months later.


00:07:49.13

Andrew

And a couple months ago, it wasn't an issue, but then all of a sudden they wanted to have the titles looked at again. So they had to put it on hold while they relooked at the titles. And it was just kind of interesting to see what had changed in us and a couple of months because they wanted to look closer at the titles to see what the titles were all about. but It really wasn't anything that was controversial. in In fact, one of the books they wanted to replace was Lord of the Flies because it was just something that that the teachers were kind of tired of teaching and they wanted to replace it with things that were a little bit more modern for some of the kids to look into. And it's just fascinating to me how something that wasn't controversial


00:08:29.79

Andrew

um a couple of months before all of a sudden became controversial and it was the same people that were involved in voting all of a sudden had to rethink it probably because of some outside pressure that they were getting of oh now what are in these titles we need to look into these things now so it's just interesting how some things get a bad reputation just because of the title of them.


00:08:52.53

Andrew

Social emotional learning is one of them. The DEI, where you're talking about discrimination and and those kinds of things.


00:08:58.27

Wednesday Lee Friday

Mm hmm.


00:09:00.15

Andrew

And we have to educate our families and our community that I teach social emotional learning every single day. What it is is I'm teaching my children how to handle big feelings and being angry.


00:09:12.30

Andrew

And if they're eliminating social emotional learning, like some of them want to, I can no longer teach my five year olds how to calm down. So how am I supposed to do that? Why is that a bad thing? Because somehow they think I'm indoctrinating my children if I'm teaching them social-emotional learning.


00:09:27.89

Debbie

One of our board members that had been running a couple of years ago is quoted in saying that critical race theory is essentially the same thing as social emotional learning.


00:09:39.79

Andrew

Yes, yeah.


00:09:40.40

Wednesday Lee Friday

Whoa!


00:09:40.45

Debbie

Like, but what?


00:09:41.56

Andrew

Yeah, they think that a lot.


00:09:42.11

Debbie

What? Make that connection for me, please.


00:09:44.19

Andrew

and Yeah.


00:09:44.56

Wednesday Lee Friday

yeah


00:09:46.60

Andrew

d is is it they ought They think it's all lumped in there together. DEI, social emotional learning learning and critical race theory are all the same because verse some of teaching we're teaching white kids to feel bad about themselves.


00:09:54.33

Wednesday Lee Friday

So basically it's ah it's a campaign against emotional intelligence.


00:10:00.73

Andrew

as was That's all lumped in there together with that. and like No, I'm not. I'm actually teaching children how to handle conflict and how to solve problems. and


00:10:11.37

Debbie

And it's so frustrating because the people who are saying these things have pretty much proven that they are clueless about what's going on in the classrooms, in the public schools. And it's just this really bizarre narrative that's like it's a dystopian world.


00:10:31.09

Debbie

narrative that all these evil boogeyman acronyms that oh that no one seems to understand and they're making them out to be these horrible things, but yet they really have no clue what they really are or how they're being dealt with in the schools, in classrooms.


00:10:49.86

Wednesday Lee Friday

Yeah, it does seem like there's an awful lot of ignorance about really vulnerable demographics, you know, gay people, trans people in particular. And I mean, just in terms of how much time and money is being spent, making sure that, you know, two kids in a district can't go out for soccer or whatever, like, I don't understand the value of that.


00:11:13.38

Wednesday Lee Friday

And it seems very much like a look over there kind of.


00:11:17.95

Debbie

Oh, very much so.


00:11:18.18

Wednesday Lee Friday

look


00:11:20.29

Debbie

Very much so.


00:11:20.43

Wednesday Lee Friday

It also seems like the very idea of of things like tolerance and empathy um are being like I mean, mocked, like openly mocked, like kids are being made fun of and and adults are doing it. I mean, the people that are about to come in this next administration, there are a bunch of playground bullies, like name calling, pointing, jeering bullies, like that is what is coming back into fashion. How do you combat that when you're teaching younger children?


00:11:54.33

Andrew

Well, and in in my district, we recently had a board meeting where one of our our illustrious members said that we were weaponizing empathy, which I'm in the process of making a t-shirt of because I think that's


00:12:09.45

Debbie

I want one, Andrew, just saying.


00:12:10.71

Andrew

And it's a great phrase, weaponizing empathy, where we were teaching children to accept anything and everything. And therefore we were weaponizing empathy, which I guess is some right wing meme that he picked up somewhere. And and now when and when asked by another board member how we were, whether his child had ever experienced that, he said, no, but yet, you know, here's what he's worried about.


00:12:39.52

Andrew

yeah we We had to in my district we had to Remove we had some teachers had these little so little tiny little rainbow stickers on our door that said safe space Just as a signal to any kids who needed a safe space i your gay straight alliance Yep from our gay straight Alliance Club and Which by the way, we can't call the gay straight Alliance Club.


00:13:05.09

Andrew

It's always called the GSA and and we


00:13:07.12

Wednesday Lee Friday

Oh, for heaven's sake.


00:13:10.32

Andrew

And and the the board voted to remove those those stickers. And then they were going to replace them with some sort of sticker that was as supportive of everyone.


00:13:22.52

Andrew

Now, needless to say, once they came around and scraped all the stickers off the door, they never got around to making the other sticker in the last year and a half.


00:13:31.16

Wednesday Lee Friday

What a surprise.


00:13:31.46

Andrew

But yes, yes. But the but the rainbow stickers were all ah taken away because I guess we were, again, that same board member said we were using them as ah signaling just to show kids.


00:13:46.25

Andrew

at Some people.


00:13:47.16

Wednesday Lee Friday

I'm reminded of a protest where ah multiple protests really, where people were trying to convey the idea that black lives matter.


00:13:47.44

Andrew

Yes.


00:13:58.31

Andrew

And nobody else's.


00:13:58.55

Wednesday Lee Friday

And the response to that was that all lives matter as sort of a contradictory like, no, no, no, you aren't allowed to say that these lives matter.


00:14:01.08

Andrew

Right. Oh, yeah. Definitely.


00:14:08.34

Wednesday Lee Friday

We have to say that all lives matter. But yet it also seemed like ah migrants who were desperate to get away from what they were living with and and come here for a better life, suddenly all lives did not in fact matter.


00:14:11.40

Andrew

And that's.


00:14:24.33

Wednesday Lee Friday

um it It seems like accountability might be lacking for those things. um Let me be very frank, if I may. These people are full of shit. They aren't trying to protect children. If they were, they would do something about, you know, guns, pregnancy, drugs, depression. um It seems to me, and and the the studies do bear this out. i I didn't want to throw a lot of numbers at everybody, but um When you create an inhospitable environment for any demographic, the mental health and and then the physical health of that demographic declines.


00:15:01.25

Andrew

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.


00:15:02.56

Wednesday Lee Friday

you know Making sure that no one has a safe space makes those who really need a safe space be stressed out all the time. schools When I was in school, schools did a terrible job dealing with bullies.


00:15:18.43

Wednesday Lee Friday

And I'm sure that it's better in some ways, depending on where you are, but there's, there's a long way to go. As long as people are still fighting for their right to like be mean to gay people or whatever people's new problem is. umm


00:15:34.38

Debbie

Wednesday, I think one of the things that has really changed since we all have been in school with those bullies in particular is now we have social media.


00:15:45.12

Debbie

So these kids really cannot escape being bullied, at least like when we were at school, the bullying happened mainly at school.


00:15:54.81

Wednesday Lee Friday

Mm hmm.


00:15:55.63

Debbie

But now that this follows these children 24 seven. um And that really compound compounds that mental health crisis. And unfortunately, schools are very limited in how they can, I guess, discipline when things are not necessarily happening happening within school.


00:16:15.54

Andrew

Mm hmm.


00:16:18.41

Debbie

So it has really, really just compounded the problem and schools, I don't know,


00:16:18.41

Wednesday Lee Friday

Wow.


00:16:26.31

Debbie

if we know really even how to deal with it other than just communicate with parents as much as we can, but when the parents are very much hands-off on how their children are using technology or even just ignorant about what is going on within the phone that their kids have in their pockets, um it's really terrifying, honestly.


00:16:47.64

Wednesday Lee Friday

can ah Can we talk a little bit about parental involvement? um I know, and again, my only reference really is when I was a kid, because I don't have any kids and obviously I don't teach, but um it used to be that parents were welcome to come up to the school to know what kids are are doing, what they're learning about. There was PTA, people would get together and plan events and stuff.


00:17:11.93

Wednesday Lee Friday

and Now, like when I watch school board meetings, it's people yelling about the same kind of insipid stuff we were talking about earlier. You know, like being really angry because Tom Sawyer has a bad word in it, or, you know, another book for preteens mentions that preteens are aware of their, you know, sex parts or whatever. Just very weird, like wanting to restrict information being given to children. And that's terrifying to me. That is terrifying. Restricting information just because I grew up next, like two, two streets over from a girl who her parents shielded her from anything having to do with sex ed and like no information whatsoever. And it turned out she was being molested, but because she hadn't been taught the right words for anything,


00:18:05.71

Wednesday Lee Friday

No one knew that there was a problem when she said, grandpa touched my kitty and it makes me sad. And, you know, no one helped this girl for years because she had not been given enough information to explain what was happening to her. So I like super rage when I find out that people are like deliberately hiding information from kids out of the like the idea that they need to be kept innocent especially once you get to like sixth grade or whatever i'm not saying talk to them like adults but kids know things kids know about racism kids know ah that you know bad things happen in the world they know what sex is they know


00:18:47.38

Wednesday Lee Friday

a lot of basics unless that's been deliberately kept from them. I mean, is that am I imagining that or is that a thing now that people are much more into keeping information from kids?


00:19:00.13

Andrew

I'm speaking as an early childhood educator. um Parents do want to bubble wrap their kids. um Unfortunately, kids are very well aware, but they understand it in the context of their age.


00:19:13.50

Andrew

So if they're not giving developmentally appropriate information and their parents aren't there to supply them with that, then they believe it as a five-year-old, if that makes sense.


00:19:27.06

Wednesday Lee Friday

Mmhmm.


00:19:27.10

Andrew

So what happens then is they build a lot of misunderstandings ah around it because they don't really understand. So they hear news, they know what's going on in the world, but they understand it but mixed with the both fantasies and understanding as they as they do with all their other information and it all mingles up inside their brain. And so they don't have a good grasp because they don't at that early age understand the difference between fantasy and reality yet. And so it drives me insane when parents won't sit down and you don't have to go into grand details when something tragic happens in the world, but you should


00:20:13.07

Andrew

give them ah just ah enough understanding of what they of what they need to hear so that they would have a basic understanding of something that happened. um For example, when 9-11 happened, um you know there were there were daycares and and elementary schools all around where children saw what was happening in the world. And there were parents who didn't want to explain to them what happened. So kids were were in trauma for what happened because they saw the news. They heard their grownups talking.


00:20:42.21

Andrew

There were actual children in New York City who saw the buildings go down. And if they were trying to hide what happened those days, those kids were having dreams and nightmares about what what happened and ah no understanding versus the parents that would sit there and and and actually tell them there were some bad people who flew planes into the buildings and this is what happened. But as adults, we're going to do our best to keep you safe and hopefully this will never happen again.


00:21:07.44

Andrew

And you just listen to their questions and you try to answer them as matter of factly as you can with just the information that they need to know. If somebody close to them dies, you try to give them just the basic facts that they need to know. You don't have to go, like I said, into the details. But you do that for every age of the child.


00:21:25.56

Andrew

Like you said, they should grow up knowing what the real names of all their body parts are. You say penis just like you say nose and eyes the whole time when you're changing a diaper from the minute they're born on up so that they know what their body parts are. You don't have to give them silly names so that they can tell somebody if something happens to them that they feel is inappropriate. That's just what you should do. You don't have to go into specific details.


00:21:54.82

Andrew

with it with ah you know sex and everything at that age, but they should have a ah very basic understanding of their body. That's just what you do. um I have parents all the time that think that their child is being bullied because somebody in the class called their child a banana, or somebody in their class pushed them um on the playground, and they think that's being a bully. And I have to try and explain to them that, no, that was a child being mean,


00:22:22.50

Andrew

And this is what five-year-olds do. There's a difference between bullying and being mean. And I'm trying to teach your child to use their voice and advocate for themselves. And I will let you know when it turns into a bullying situation, there's a complete difference. But parents don't understand that. We have parents at some level that that hover way too much and protect their child way too much from some things.


00:22:49.74

Andrew

but then aren't involved in some of the more important things that they need to be involved in. So it's a very strange mixture. um Some of the things that they need to be involved in, they aren't. And some of the things that aren't an issue and they're way over involved in, they are.


00:23:05.63

Debbie

Yeah, I would agree with that. And Andrew, you and I teach about the same level. And I don't know how many ditty jokes you hear at the high school, but all the time, every day, Diddy comes out of someone's mouth, or someone sneezes and says, Ha!


00:23:13.92

Andrew

yeah


00:23:23.02

Debbie

Chtula!


00:23:23.68

Andrew

Okay.


00:23:23.99

Debbie

ah huh


00:23:24.19

Wednesday Lee Friday

Oh my goodness!


00:23:24.13

Andrew

um yeah


00:23:25.80

Debbie

So you know it and I think a lot of times a lot of the teachers are even they're more they're clueless about this stuff because they don't keep up with it.


00:23:27.02

Andrew

Okay.


00:23:34.39

Debbie

You know I happen to keep up with that and so I will give the kid a look and um um I don't live under a rock y'all knock it off. um I had a student write a poem about how he gave his girlfriend a pearl necklace.


00:23:47.50

Debbie

I'm like yeah you may want to change that.


00:23:48.57

Wednesday Lee Friday

What?


00:23:51.27

Debbie

Oh yeah they think I'm dumb.


00:23:55.09

Wednesday Lee Friday

That is hilarious. Well, I mean, I can remember being in second grade thinking the teacher lived at the school and wondering why it took them. So you know remember that when you're young enough that you think teachers live at the school.


00:24:03.69

Andrew

Yeah.


00:24:05.50

Wednesday Lee Friday

ah yeah


00:24:05.61

Andrew

Yeah.


00:24:06.03

Debbie

Oh, I had a preschooler ask me where I slept in the milk cooler room.


00:24:10.04

Andrew

yeah


00:24:13.25

Debbie

Yeah, so I think there's just so much that these kids see and hear.


00:24:14.10

Wednesday Lee Friday

So. with


00:24:18.96

Debbie

And if they don't talk to their parents about it, you know, we as teachers get to hear all these peer interactions between these kids. And just, yeah, it's, they know way more than, than parents, I think, think they know.


00:24:34.19

Wednesday Lee Friday

Which kind of leads us back into the, the save space discussion. I mean, kids are doing this. Parents aren't stepping in. Um, what, I mean, how does that all like, I mean, don't explain the the entirety of education to me, but like, what do you do?


00:24:41.50

Andrew

right


00:24:50.05

Wednesday Lee Friday

Is that just something that you have to deal with on a kid by kid basis? Cause I mean, there's like 40 kids in a classroom now, right?


00:24:58.47

Debbie

Well, not my classroom, but thankfully.


00:25:03.16

Andrew

Mine


00:25:03.33

Wednesday Lee Friday

All right.


00:25:03.47

Debbie

a


00:25:04.58

Wednesday Lee Friday

So so what I mean, one of the things that the new administration is talking about is, well, but we'll just kind of go through these things one at a time.


00:25:04.58

Andrew

cans Well,


00:25:16.42

Wednesday Lee Friday

um Teaching the Bible in a public school classroom.


00:25:21.31

Debbie

ah


00:25:21.45

Wednesday Lee Friday

Are teachers really going to do that? I mean, I'm sure some will. But what about like normal, decent people who have read the Constitution? Are they going to do that?


00:25:31.12

Andrew

Well, I think that's even in the states that are trying to pass that the ACLU is fighting that in court. So you know that's something that we'll see. I know that's one thing that that Trump is is saying that they're going to try to pass if um if they do get um if they do keep the Department of Ed or get rid of it and pass something along the lines that they get to if you're going to take federal money or whatever that's, they're going to try and pass some kind of loyalty oath for teachers. That's one thing they're looking at too. Um, where it'll be these patriotic things, including taking those kinds of oaths. And what will that, what will that be? And the Bible is, you know, possibly one of them 10 commandments is possibly one of them. So I don't know. We'll see, we'll see what districts do. Cause, um, if that's all part of it, then it'll depend on.


00:26:27.16

Andrew

You know, like in Wicked, if they cart us off to jail or if we lose our license, I don't i don't know, because um I definitely would be one of those ACLU lawsuits.


00:26:39.64

Andrew

That's for sure, because I don't believe in it.


00:26:41.75

Debbie

Yeah. And Laura, what I find interesting is like all these things they want to make us do, the general public doesn't even know what we are being mandated to do.


00:26:52.20

Andrew

Right, right.


00:26:53.04

Debbie

You know, on social media, I always see that meme, repost if youth or react or like this post if you think the national or the um Pledge of Allegiance should be set in every classroom.


00:27:02.51

Andrew

All right. Let me see. Do we have to do it?


00:27:05.54

Debbie

It's state law.


00:27:06.86

Andrew

Yeah.


00:27:07.10

Debbie

We have to.


00:27:08.49

Andrew

Yeah.


00:27:08.62

Debbie

We have to provide that opportunity for kids every day.


00:27:10.49

Andrew

Yeah.


00:27:11.62

Debbie

And it's state law that we have an American flag in each classroom.


00:27:14.91

Andrew

Yeah. know Yeah.


00:27:16.17

Debbie

Like, just shut up. We do it.


00:27:18.59

Andrew

Yeah.


00:27:19.64

Debbie

It's so frustrating.


00:27:19.81

Andrew

How?


00:27:21.43

Wednesday Lee Friday

When I was in fifth grade, we had to say the lord's Lord's prayer after the pledge of allegiance.


00:27:21.57

Andrew

Definitely.


00:27:27.80

Debbie

Oh Lord.


00:27:27.95

Wednesday Lee Friday

And there was me and one other kid who didn't know it. And the teacher called us heathens.


00:27:32.33

Debbie

Oh God.


00:27:33.03

Wednesday Lee Friday

And I didn't know what a heathen was either. So yeah, and I didn't.


00:27:38.98

Debbie

o


00:27:39.72

Wednesday Lee Friday

The thing is, I know now that if I had gone home and told my mom that the teacher called me a heathen for not knowing a prayer, my mother would have raised holy hell. We would have seemed very religious with my mother raising holy hell.


00:27:47.43

Andrew

yes


00:27:51.80

Wednesday Lee Friday

But um yeah, I didn't know. I just knew I was in trouble. So I didn't go home and tell my mom I got in trouble at school, because why would I?


00:27:59.96

Andrew

What?


00:28:00.08

Wednesday Lee Friday

But that stuff is pretty terrifying.


00:28:00.20

Debbie

left.


00:28:00.98

Andrew

I mean,


00:28:02.15

Wednesday Lee Friday

And I know just because I give money to, say, Tanek Temple. And I know they fight a lot of these, you know, like, Oh, we're going to do religion.


00:28:09.15

Andrew

yeah


00:28:10.62

Wednesday Lee Friday

Great.


00:28:10.97

Andrew

It's coming to you all of them.


00:28:11.26

Wednesday Lee Friday

Here's afterschool Satan club. And then, you know, people back down.


00:28:13.03

Andrew

Yeah?


00:28:15.02

Wednesday Lee Friday

and But that seems to be reaching its end because before people didn't want to say, Oh, we want religion, but we only need mean my religion, but people.


00:28:16.35

Andrew

Yeah.


00:28:25.79

Andrew

Right.


00:28:26.55

Debbie

Oh yeah.


00:28:27.34

Wednesday Lee Friday

You know, because haters taking over the oval has emboldened a lot more haters, people are much more bold about saying, no, Jesus, my Jesus, and that's all.


00:28:38.80

Wednesday Lee Friday

and and


00:28:40.19

Andrew

i just got it ah I get texts every day from the ACLU and from a couple of other groups that say, well, this is what we're gearing up to fight, so give me your money. So I know that you know they're already getting the lawsuits ready to go. so


00:28:52.88

Debbie

Yeah.


00:28:54.14

Wednesday Lee Friday

So that brings me to another point really, which is that the, the new president is a monster and also, uh, you know, but Republican, um, the house, the Senate both read SCOTUS is completely stacked. So things are coming down at a federal level, which, you know, none of us are going to be, have enough power to to do anything about, but at the local level,


00:29:22.40

Wednesday Lee Friday

And I don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves, but that's really where the power is, right? School board meetings and and and concentrating on what is happening in in your district directly. Am I am i right about that?


00:29:35.65

Andrew

yes


00:29:36.53

Debbie

To some extent, but when you're talking funding, again, that's out of our control. And if funding ends up being cut because of all of these program shifts that seem to be impending, um that's the part that really worries me.


00:29:53.46

Debbie

and what those cuts look like and where the money will come from if it's going to be replaced from some other place um and what those cuts could look like for your average public school in a small community.


00:30:08.14

Wednesday Lee Friday

Was there a lasting impact of of Betsy DeVos' reign as a secular?


00:30:08.27

Andrew

All right, you you get to.


00:30:16.01

Debbie

What was that again?


00:30:16.89

Wednesday Lee Friday

Was there a lasting impact to what Betsy DeVos did when she was Secretary of Education?


00:30:23.51

Debbie

Most definitely, yes.


00:30:25.17

Wednesday Lee Friday

Can you can quantify that? I'd love to hear what she changed and and what remained that way.


00:30:32.82

Debbie

Well, I don't know if it remained that way, thankfully, because we, here in Michigan, we've had somewhat of a buffer having an amazing governor that understands the importance of, ah yeah, Big Red's goal, understanding the power of having funding for education.


00:30:43.82

Wednesday Lee Friday

They scratch yes.


00:30:51.88

Debbie

um I do know that that Betsy really was looking at strengthening the whole concept of charter


00:30:57.16

Andrew

Mm hmm.


00:30:59.90

Debbie

schools and private schools receiving voucher money, you know taxpayer money.


00:31:00.41

Wednesday Lee Friday

Yes.


00:31:04.81

Debbie

and And I know that's part of the whole Project 2025 as well and strengthening that. um So I just think that what she instilled was a framework of thinking about that and making parents somehow feel that they're being cheated.


00:31:22.76

Debbie

out of this right that they supposedly have for the way they their money is being their tax dollars are being spent.


00:31:31.56

Wednesday Lee Friday

And it's always the little guys, it's never like, let's task tax Elon Musk.


00:31:31.82

Debbie

and


00:31:37.76

Wednesday Lee Friday

It's always, you know, why are we helping poor people? Why are we helping dumb people? Why are we helping, you know, people that like super need help and as opposed to, well, but you know, that's, that's kind of.


00:31:52.93

Wednesday Lee Friday

Sorry, it just makes me sad. um But I know that some states, I actually don't even know if Michigan is one, but where school funding is determined by property taxes. um did Is that what they do here in Michigan?


00:32:08.92

Andrew

Well, it's it's it's changed. It used to be that way. um It's now a combination of things. There's tax money that goes into it. There is some property taxes that go into it. But schools right now in Michigan all have us the same basic amount of money per student.


00:32:25.62

Andrew

You get a per student foundational grant. And then there's some categoricals that go above that based on different things. How many students do you have that fit into this category? You might get some extra monies. But the thing in Michigan that separates one district from another is their ability to pass bonds.


00:32:43.94

Andrew

And balance bonds can be used to do things like build buildings and buy buses. And you know they're for big but they're for big and technology. They're for big things. um And those have to be be passed in elections, but that is not equal. So even if your district may get the same amount of money per student as another district, um if they have a good a good base, an industrial base, they might be able to pass some bonds very cheaply that will generate a ton of money that they can use to build themselves a new school when they need to. ah And, you know, as well as other districts can't do that.


00:33:26.64

Debbie

Another thing I think that makes funding challenging here in Michigan um is the school of choice option for parents. So we do, parents actually do have choice of school districts within the public schools as long as they can get their child to another district that's accepting school of choice students.


00:33:44.43

Debbie

ah they can. So we in my area, we have a lot of students that are being sent to my district and other area schools that don't necessarily live in that district. So when it comes time for voting for bonds, you might actually, my own children go to the school where I teach, but we don't live in that community. So when I vote, my vote for tax increases and bonds is to support the school district where my children don't go.


00:34:10.01

Debbie

which i I still do that because I believe in the public schools, but I choose to bring my children with me to my district.


00:34:10.17

Wednesday Lee Friday

wow.


00:34:10.76

Andrew

um


00:34:17.69

Andrew

And in fact, oh, go ahead.


00:34:18.27

Debbie

so That's problematic because then let's say when there's a school board election, we have a lot of parents who really support the school or who may, but they don't live in that community. And so they can't even vote for the school board for where their child is going. So even within public school systems here in Michigan, we have that we have this disconnect between tax dollars going towards where your child actually goes to school or your election your election power, your voting power does not follow that.


00:34:48.81

Andrew

And that is how we're growing um for count day because that's how you make your money is on 90% of your funding comes on that first count day in October is ah by how many students are sitting in seats on on that day, um which is vitally important. And um there's a couple of things that that come from that, but ah we're losing population in Michigan.


00:35:12.92

Andrew

And so we fight desperately for students and really the only way you can grow anymore is by getting students from other districts. So it's really competitive to get those students from other districts.


00:35:25.22

Debbie

Yeah, it's cutthroat. and it And it's frustrating because sometimes you have those problematic families that don't seem to know how to how to just exist in society without being a pain in the ass.


00:35:39.21

Andrew

Well,


00:35:40.04

Debbie

And so they get, well, I'll just take my kid to this school. And so then they leave and they're like, bye.


00:35:43.37

Andrew

up


00:35:45.38

Debbie

And then they just school hop, which is not good for the children.


00:35:49.23

Andrew

And a lot of times charters are going to take whoever they can get until count, that 90% count day comes in October.


00:35:49.36

Debbie

It's not good for the kids.


00:35:56.89

Andrew

And then because they're problems, as soon as that count day is over and they get that money, they ship them back to their home school.


00:35:57.47

Debbie

You know?


00:36:04.35

Andrew

And then the public school has to take these, you know, they're usually either behavioral issues or they're very expensive special education kids.


00:36:11.33

Debbie

Just woefully behind, yeah.


00:36:12.85

Andrew

And the public has to take care of them.


00:36:16.65

Debbie

Yep.


00:36:17.65

Wednesday Lee Friday

um Are more people going to be homeschooling in the future, do you think? Because of the changes that are taking place in education?


00:36:22.52

Andrew

Oh, yeah. And I know what's happening in our area around here is we're getting these um ultra conservative religious um conservative um families that are building these little co-op homeschooling coalitions.


00:36:42.61

Andrew

that are opening up too. And so I think you're getting those too, but.


00:36:47.87

Debbie

And I think since COVID a lot of schools have gone, a lot of children just never made it back to school.


00:36:48.02

Andrew

you're


00:36:54.31

Andrew

ye


00:36:55.45

Debbie

They're doing virtual online school now.


00:36:58.36

Andrew

And I know that some of them are using some of the public school um resources that they're entitled to through the state too.


00:37:06.07

Debbie

so


00:37:07.61

Andrew

So it's it's interesting that they get to use some of the, because I know we serve as some of the kids like in speech and some other things. so and but


00:37:15.70

Debbie

Yeah, we have some homeschoolers that go and do band or play sports.


00:37:19.11

Andrew

Yeah, for sports, yeah.


00:37:20.31

Debbie

okay


00:37:21.46

Andrew

and Or come in for specials and other things. And it's it's interesting to see


00:37:25.71

Debbie

Yep.


00:37:27.85

Andrew

how about they'll use some of the services, but because they wanna, because of politics or religion or other things, they stay out. But the public school as well, our public school, we started our own virtual school to ah service and we get probably about 25 kids, K through, or elementary kids that go through our or online that never went away after COVID each year.


00:37:54.12

Wednesday Lee Friday

Wow.


00:37:54.31

Debbie

Yeah, we have an area school that has a virtual um ah virtual school. It's just satellites. And I think it adds 800 students to their funding that they get to count.


00:38:07.71

Debbie

So it's


00:38:09.07

Wednesday Lee Friday

Now, I am aware that a lot of parents think that ah most ah decisions about education happen on a state to state basis um and and don't fully understand or appreciate what would happen without a Department of Education, um what would not having a Department of Education do for special ed, for example, IEPs, that whole thing?


00:38:33.09

Andrew

Yeah? No?


00:38:36.65

Andrew

It would put, um well, right now, what special ed does for on the federal level idea, which is the Individual with Disability Act comes from um federal ed or I'm sorry, the Department of Ed. So it's the main law comes from the federal government. So if we got rid of the Department of Ed, there wouldn't be one governing body that would be overseeing that the schools are complying. So you would have every state and even really every probably school district would be looking at their at their special ed


00:39:19.40

Andrew

ah programs individually, and so you would get different compliance with laws that wouldn't necessarily be, you wouldn't necessarily get the same. Now I, as a child, before IDEA was a law, before it was established law, I happened to be able to work in special ed programs when I was when i was a kid.


00:39:45.48

Andrew

um And I can attest to being involved in schools where when special ed started even being taught within the schools because it used to be that they were housed in you know, they were, you usually didn't see those kids in the schools. And I can remember when they first started coming into our elementary buildings, they were always, you know, hidden down at the end of the hall and away from the normal kids, quote normal kids as much as possible. And um and I got to go work in the programs because I was finished with the Basil readers and


00:40:19.65

Andrew

So I didn't have a reading program to do anymore. And so there was a series of jobs that some of us that were done with reading got to do. And that was a program I got to do. So I got to go in and teach reading into the special ed rooms. And I could remember what it was like before they got to do things where there was inclusion and those kinds of things brought into the school. And I'd be terrified that that would be what some of the districts would go back into being. Because there are a lot of people that hate the idea of inclusion because they think somehow that it hurts general education students when you include the more um but more ah affected children that get included into general ed programming, which is very sad. I'm also a special education teacher and i my class this year has some special education students and I know how wonderful it is to have have a ah program that includes


00:41:15.53

Andrew

special education students as well as general education students. It's great for both students and there's a wealth of knowledge to be learned by both students when they're when they're mingled together. The students mentor each other and it'd be a shame if they go backt we go back to the days where they're either not included in the school's period or they're back to being hidden at the end of the hall so they don't disturb all their children learning. And that's what the the Department of Ed basically does. Besides having some grant dollars that they turn out, their main thing is to make sure that special education students get educated as well as the more the poor, Title I, the children that


00:42:01.25

Andrew

have other learning disabilities and those kinds of things that they're all educated all across the United States. That but those things are the high poverty and the other mitigating factors that everybody has an equal opportunity access to curriculum.


00:42:19.27

Andrew

um


00:42:20.03

Debbie

Well, and i'm and along with those mandates comes funding money and i've I've seen it many times and i I would be afraid if a district or a state were allowed to decide what the money that does exist would go to without IDEA being there as a protection because I've seen districts make a decision to not give students who needed an action an aid to be with them during the day and to help them throughout their day.


00:42:47.23

Andrew

Yep.


00:42:50.82

Debbie

Just just find some reason to not have an aid for that student.


00:42:51.81

Andrew

Yep.


00:42:56.62

Debbie

at you know And it just would harm the student and it it would does affect then the other students because there's the teacher then would have to stop and be the person to help that child.


00:43:07.02

Andrew

Or they just say the money doesn't need to go to the reading interventionist.


00:43:07.38

Debbie

but


00:43:10.25

Andrew

It needs to go to um scholarships to send them to private school. And who's going to get the money to go to private school? It's not going to be the poor child that needs reading interventionist. Ten bucks, it's going to be you know the wealthy kid that needs to get away from the poor kid that needs a reading interventionist.


00:43:26.73

Andrew

oh


00:43:26.85

Debbie

And not just the reading interventionists, but just even a physical health aid, someone to help them use the toilet or give them a shot if they need a shot for their diabetes or whatever, you know, it's, it's just crazy.


00:43:30.40

Andrew

and so


00:43:40.86

Debbie

We don't even have school nurses in most of our schools.


00:43:43.85

Andrew

No.


00:43:44.22

Wednesday Lee Friday

Now wait a minute, that can't be true because President-elect Trump told me that school nurses are giving sex change operations and that kids are going to school one gender and coming home and now why would he say that if that wasn't so?


00:43:46.93

Debbie

It is true.


00:43:49.95

Debbie

well


00:43:54.37

Andrew

No, no, no, no. Well, nurses are giving sex, the teachers are giving the sex change operations. Come on.


00:44:01.97

Debbie

Yeah, we don't have school nurses.


00:44:02.33

Andrew

That's what I do during recess.


00:44:02.52

Wednesday Lee Friday

ah but yeah Oh boy, what if he's lying?


00:44:04.28

Debbie

I'm not sure what he's talking about.


00:44:07.55

Andrew

Come on.


00:44:08.58

Wednesday Lee Friday

Wouldn't that be weird?


00:44:09.09

Andrew

so


00:44:10.09

Debbie

Wow.


00:44:12.34

Wednesday Lee Friday

Okay, sorry, had to get in some levity there. um So if, ah I mean, not having a a Department of Education is just one of the fun things about Project 2025, which by the way, and they have now admitted now that the election is over.


00:44:32.52

Wednesday Lee Friday

that they love it and they're going to try to enact as much as possible.


00:44:35.11

Andrew

Mm hmm.


00:44:36.70

Wednesday Lee Friday

I was very much shouted down on the internet by MAGA people telling me, don't I know that Trump said he's not doing it? And it's so that means he's telling the truth or something.


00:44:47.04

Wednesday Lee Friday

I don't know. But um like, really?


00:44:48.61

Debbie

ah


00:44:50.06

Wednesday Lee Friday

Yeah. Well, what'd you guys do with that Mexico check for the wall when it got here? It's like he's already admitted he can't even lower the price and groceries for fuck's sake.


00:44:57.22

Debbie

Let me back down on the steelworkers deal as well.


00:44:58.33

Wednesday Lee Friday

But, um, yeah, yeah.


00:45:01.48

Debbie

like


00:45:02.49

Wednesday Lee Friday

Well, I hear the the good people of Dearborn are not very happy with him either after he somehow convinced them that he cared about Gaza.


00:45:11.90

Andrew

yeah know


00:45:12.41

Wednesday Lee Friday

but um But there are other provisions being discussed in Project 2025, one of which is that public school kids will all be required able-bodied public school kids will be required to take the ASVAB, whereas private school kids will take it electively. Now I know, i went I went to two different high schools. I went to Hazel Park High School for a few years, and then my family moved, so I graduated from Royal Oak Kimball. And if you're not from the area, you should know that there's a pretty steep income difference between those two school districts.


00:45:51.10

Wednesday Lee Friday

And in Hazel Park, the military recruiters would come for almost a month. They would be there every day with their tables recruiting people. And once I went to the rich kids school, the recruiters were there for like two days. Um, and it seems to me that that is extremely calculated that the kids with, with less opportunity, with less money for college, with less parental support, less impact, less, uh,


00:46:21.03

Wednesday Lee Friday

focus, put on education in general, that those are the kids that they want to funnel into the military. And and often with the promise of of college, you know, that if you risk your life or your country's oil or whatever, that, you know, in and I don't want to dump on the military. I'm sure that it's a good option for certain types of people, if if that's what they want to do, but so is trade school, you know.


00:46:48.26

Wednesday Lee Friday

Um, so I find that infuriating and terrifying. What, uh, what, what else is in project 2025 with regard to schools and education that, uh, is not working for you guys? Anything else?


00:47:03.61

Debbie

I have stuff, but we haven't really heard Andrew say much, so I thought I'd give him an opportunity to talk.


00:47:07.18

Andrew

that's You guys are doing great. and


00:47:11.59

Wednesday Lee Friday

Yeah. Yes. What will we do without assist white male to explain education?


00:47:14.67

Andrew

yeah That's right, exactly.


00:47:21.05

Debbie

Yeah, so one of the things ah I most recently have some experience with, just the whole mindset behind it um at my district,


00:47:31.54

Debbie

the whole Title IX allowance for transgender, allowing some protections for transgender students or people in general. So teachers, we do have some teachers that identify this way as well.


00:47:42.54

Wednesday Lee Friday

Now, when I hear about Title IX, I'm remembering Title IX in terms of um equality for ah female students in sports.


00:47:44.59

Debbie

also so


00:47:55.17

Debbie

Correct.


00:47:55.57

Wednesday Lee Friday

You know, that's that's what I remember from back in the day. But but you're saying that it also ah protects more vulnerable demos like trans kids?


00:47:58.71

Andrew

Hmm. Hmm.


00:48:04.81

Debbie

Yes, it's been expanded most pretty recently and, um, through Biden and and Harris.


00:48:07.93

Andrew

Mm hmm.


00:48:12.31

Debbie

Um, and so we have new policies that have come that our board needs to adopt to update our title nine and how we would deal with it if there are complaints.


00:48:26.50

Debbie

against the district. And there are certain people in our area and then on the board as well that are very hesitant to adopt these new policies because in their minds it opens the door for bad things to happen in the bathroom. When you let a trans student into the bathroom we have to protect those girls.


00:48:47.84

Debbie

penis in the girl's room. Apparently, something horrible is going to happen if a child with a penis goes into a stall and uses the bathroom in a girl's room. I don't understand. So we had weeks and weeks of and of conversations about protecting all students And I would have to keep bringing them back. It's like, well, are we protecting the trans students? Because those are the kids really that are going to be targeted the most in those bathrooms. They're not, they're not feeling safe going into those bathrooms and probably wouldn't even choose to use that bathroom if they have that choice because of the bullying.


00:49:34.05

Wednesday Lee Friday

Well, and it it very much sounds like another instance of bigotry in the name of protecting people who have not asked to be protected. um Because if if we want to protect teenage girls, for example, from predators, there are a lot of other places we could start.


00:49:44.30

Debbie

Right, right.


00:49:54.62

Debbie

Exactly, exactly. And so some of the solutions that had been thrown around were um door to floor, or no door, I'm sorry, ceiling to floor doors that lock to make sure ah that kids have privacy in bathrooms.


00:50:12.53

Wednesday Lee Friday

Well, that's a great idea whether you're talking about trans kids or not.


00:50:12.61

Debbie

And so I was


00:50:15.45

Wednesday Lee Friday

I mean, privacy in the bathroom does seem sort of like a no brainer, but they also want to know if people are smoking in there.


00:50:19.34

Debbie

It does, but when you, well,


00:50:22.15

Wednesday Lee Friday

So apparently.


00:50:24.43

Debbie

when you have a locked space, you have just now increased the amount of time that it takes to give a student help if they need it. Let's say they've passed out, let's we we and we would not know it.


00:50:37.76

Debbie

in a bathroom with a stall, at least if someone has collapsed on the floor, I can see that if I go in as the adult. That's supposed to be monitoring students, right?


00:50:44.62

Wednesday Lee Friday

Okay.


00:50:46.98

Debbie

But if if someone's gonna do harm and they can have a locked door in between help and what they want to do, that actually has just increased the danger in that situation.


00:50:59.99

Debbie

And so I had to re remind them of that, that you know kids are gonna do, or people who intend harm are going to do it. no matter what space they're in. um They're also worried about the changing rooms, the locker rooms. Our athletes don't use those locker rooms. we They don't shower in them anymore. I don't know about your school, Andrew, but our high school, middle school athletes will do any they will shower at home. They just change in the bathroom and they're done. They don't use those. So it's not like we have to worry about


00:51:33.92

Debbie

someone with a different body part in that room, flaunting it around, shaking, hey, look what I got between my legs. It's not gonna happen. It's not. And then so they brought all the coaches and just the female sports coaches.


00:51:49.83

Debbie

to see, and also the athletes and the kids. And it was hilarious because when they were asked questions, well, how would you feel? Like, I wouldn't care. yes The kids were cool.


00:51:58.54

Wednesday Lee Friday

Right.


00:52:00.72

Debbie

And the girls basketball coach, well, what would happen if you had a trans girl want to be on your basketball team?


00:52:04.60

Andrew

Mm hmm.


00:52:07.07

Debbie

He said, is she six four? I don't care. So, I mean, it's just, again, making problems where there are none and trying to get this fear, boogeyman reaction to things that are just not the main problems that we need to be focusing on in education right now.


00:52:28.45

Wednesday Lee Friday

Well, and there's there's a just ah a massive rage addiction happening there.


00:52:28.44

Andrew

I just want to say. like


00:52:34.12

Wednesday Lee Friday

And i I grew up with that. My mom is a rage addiction person. So there's a certain sort of person that is, you know you know how people get addicted to exercise? Because I think it's similar to that.


00:52:45.71

Wednesday Lee Friday

People just get ah used to certain brain chemicals and it feels good to be angry. It feels good to, and and if you could also couch your anger in some sort of heroic, like,


00:52:57.91

Wednesday Lee Friday

Look at me protecting people. It, it lends a credibility and even like the appearance of morality to horrific kinds of bigotry now.


00:53:06.95

Debbie

All right.


00:53:07.51

Andrew

Well, i mean Andrew youre and injur and I always talk about about this because it's always about that the trans woman.


00:53:09.41

Wednesday Lee Friday

And and that's all being taught. Kids are soaking that right up.


00:53:18.27

Debbie

I know.


00:53:18.84

Andrew

They never talk about it from the trans man.


00:53:20.49

Wednesday Lee Friday

Right. Yes.


00:53:21.49

Andrew

So how would they feel when this is we have a trans male, personally, we have a trans male child, and how would they feel about this trans male coming into a a woman's space with a full beard and you know looking very much like a male, but saying, sorry, I got to use the space now because I was assigned as a woman at birth.


00:53:42.99

Andrew

And I think they'd feel more uncomfortable by that as they would by somebody that appears very feminine.


00:53:46.38

Debbie

Right.


00:53:50.78

Andrew

so


00:53:52.00

Debbie

it So yeah, so back to the 2025.


00:53:52.01

Wednesday Lee Friday

Yeah.


00:53:54.52

Debbie

I just i I am fearful that they that they're going to roll that back to some extent and leave that population very vulnerable for a lot a lot of discrimination on many fronts.


00:54:10.46

Wednesday Lee Friday

So let's get into actionable advice.


00:54:13.51

Andrew

but can i go Can I go back to that question though, because there are a couple of things.


00:54:14.56

Wednesday Lee Friday

So if you are a parent. Oh, please.


00:54:19.57

Andrew

One of the other things that that would do is get rid of Head Start, which in the early childhood world is is some very bothersome.


00:54:24.45

Wednesday Lee Friday

Oh no!


00:54:29.67

Andrew

And it unless states are going to pick that up because that's a huge expense for states to pay for free preschool. um I don't think they realize how much that is. I know a lot of states are beginning to adopt that, but this is even for three-year-olds, not just for four-year-olds, to give kids that to us good start at the beginning of their education.


00:54:54.02

Andrew

And also, one of the things they want to limit, of course, is they want to call the NEA almost a terrorist organization just about. They want to try and limit the voice of the NEA.


00:55:03.22

Wednesday Lee Friday

Oh jeez.


00:55:04.50

Andrew

But they don't want to limit every union, just the NEA. So, yeah, so, you know.


00:55:08.16

Debbie

because we're the biggest and most powerful in the nation. But, so essentially, I think a lot of these things that they want to eliminate at the federal level, okay, so let's say we do, are the states going to be able to pick this up?


00:55:25.93

Andrew

Right.


00:55:26.16

Debbie

And if we do, it's going to increase state tax if we if those states make decisions to continue programming in the way that needs to be going on.


00:55:36.50

Andrew

And again, it won't be able to be equal across all 50 states because not every state is going to be able to afford um same to the same level as each other's status.


00:55:39.15

Debbie

No.


00:55:46.45

Andrew

And that's one of the nice things about the Department of Education is that they were trying to make it equal across the 50 states. So if you thought, you know, the whatever state is last in education right now,


00:55:58.42

Andrew

is is really last, just we're gonna go back to the days, you know, 1950s, 1940s where those states were really, really last again. And that's where we're headed.


00:56:10.24

Debbie

Well, and it also leaves it up to the elected officials in each state. Maybe the people, I mean, we've kind of saw that with Roe, where a lot of states, you know, it's been thrown back to the states, like that's some great thing.


00:56:17.02

Andrew

Right?


00:56:21.28

Andrew

Right.


00:56:21.92

Debbie

But when you have people who are in power, who are very willing to give up those rights, or to give up that opportunity for an education, it's not not a big deal at all.


00:56:32.87

Andrew

okay


00:56:33.24

Debbie

And so then again, we have in equity with things that should be a right for all in our country.


00:56:41.86

Wednesday Lee Friday

Yeah, I just wish people felt as strongly about education as they do about the right to bear arms, for example.


00:56:50.40

Debbie

Yep.


00:56:50.65

Wednesday Lee Friday

um Which is another show that we're having we did an episode on guns and it's gonna be awesome because it's I've heard from a lot of um progressives that it's time, that it's time for them to get a gun, that the level of fear is such that...


00:57:06.43

Wednesday Lee Friday

and and So it's basically a show about why you shouldn't just go haphazardly get it gone and think it's gonna protect you. but um But that's coming up.


00:57:14.17

Andrew

well


00:57:14.44

Debbie

Right.


00:57:16.10

Andrew

yeah wednesday I could do a whole thing on you.


00:57:16.87

Wednesday Lee Friday

um


00:57:19.13

Andrew

One of the things that they say is we keep throwing money into education and our children still can't read. Well, I can give you a whole reason on what we're doing wrong in early education as to why our children can't read and what we're doing wrong with that.


00:57:31.87

Andrew

and And it it drives me absolutely insane that we keep doing we keep throwing money and we keep doing the same things more and more and more versus really looking into how the brain learns and and what we should be changing in order to help our children read. And we're doing the same thing now if you're following the science of reading where we're just going back into the teaching of phonics.


00:57:57.36

Andrew

which isn't a bad thing. Phonics are very important, but now we're pushing so hard into phonics that we're getting rid of um teaching comprehension as well. So we can never balance things out.


00:58:07.76

Debbie

Oh yes.


00:58:11.12

Andrew

Whereas when we were balancing things out, then there were people who were excluding phonics and we can never just you know teach a happy happy middle of teaching at all and get rid of testing, I put in nine weeks of testing my five-year-olds, which shouldn't be tested in the first place place, but I lose nine weeks of testing or nine weeks of instruction to testing.


00:58:33.83

Andrew

And there's a whole bunch of things that ah that we do wrong in early elementary that messes with how the brain connects in the first place. And that is why kids are struggling, that I think we build a lot of the learning disabilities that we then spend years and years remediating. That if we would look into those issues, that would help us be able to teach our kids to read and compete a little bit better.


00:59:00.08

Debbie

Well, and that and allowing parents to, I don't know, just, I created a parent education program called Parents Are Involved Readers.


00:59:10.10

Andrew

Uh-huh.


00:59:10.68

Debbie

A lot of our parents don't understand how to be supportive with


00:59:12.64

Andrew

You know, not at all.


00:59:14.93

Debbie

learning to read at home. And I remember one of the meetings in talking with the parents about when they like to read with their children, one of the parents shared, oh, well, we, you know, every night we have bath time and then after bath time we read to the kids.


00:59:27.92

Debbie

And one of the other parents said, that's genius.


00:59:31.44

Andrew

Yeah.


00:59:32.74

Debbie

What?


00:59:32.96

Andrew

Really.


00:59:34.33

Debbie

They had no clue. They had no clue. Obviously they weren't raised in a house that did that, made reading part of that day.


00:59:41.21

Andrew

Right.


00:59:41.50

Debbie

And so I There are so many problems, so many reasons why kids struggle with reading and Laura's onto some part of it, but there are so many other factors as well.


00:59:47.77

Andrew

Right.


00:59:52.83

Andrew

And, you know, a lot of it is the fact that, like I said, we just test our kids to death that we that and and we kill the joy of reading early years.


00:59:57.75

Debbie

Mm hmm. Yep.


01:00:03.54

Andrew

And that's another big reason. ah But we.


01:00:05.50

Debbie

When they walk into my middle school classroom, I hate reading, they say, and they mean it.


01:00:08.95

Andrew

Yeah. They do.


01:00:11.06

Debbie

They would rather gouge their eyes out with an ice pick or get written up for the for discipline than pick up a book to read.


01:00:13.89

Andrew

Yep.


01:00:17.69

Andrew

Yep.


01:00:18.44

Wednesday Lee Friday

Well, I know some of the things that we read in high school, first of all, all white males.


01:00:22.85

Andrew

Yep.


01:00:23.51

Wednesday Lee Friday

you know Maybe you got a little Shirley Jackson in there somewhere, but for the most part, it wasn't there was not a broad spectrum of perspective. and um


01:00:33.60

Debbie

We have that now. We have that now.


01:00:36.73

Andrew

If they don't plan it.


01:00:36.82

Wednesday Lee Friday

See, that that has to help, right?


01:00:37.00

Debbie

You should see my library, Wednesday.


01:00:39.28

Wednesday Lee Friday

I should.


01:00:39.32

Andrew

If they don't plan it.


01:00:40.11

Wednesday Lee Friday

I should see it. Cause man, if somebody, if I thought that every book was a separate piece by John Knowles, I wouldn't like reading either.


01:00:48.30

Debbie

No.


01:00:49.69

Andrew

Oh no, there's some wonderful young adult fiction that's better than adult fiction. okay


01:00:54.01

Debbie

Oh, it's my preferred genre right now. And the dystopian stuff is just, it's on point.


01:00:57.90

Andrew

yeah


01:01:00.51

Debbie

I love it. But that's the thing, we have so many amazing books that I would have killed for as a kid to read. But these kids, they just, they're stuck on their phones.


01:01:12.01

Debbie

And it's it's just, to it's sad. It's so sad and disheartening as a reading teacher specifically, that's my job.


01:01:19.02

Wednesday Lee Friday

Well, you know, I'm a writer.


01:01:19.26

Debbie

And it, yeah.


01:01:20.30

Wednesday Lee Friday

I i get it.


01:01:21.47

Andrew

yeah


01:01:24.17

Andrew

But yeah, but I mean, that's a whole that's a whole other show. But um but that's I was I was speaking to one of our very conservative staff members in our school. And and we were talking about this issue because i I said there are some very serious I'm a very big public school advocate.


01:01:42.14

Andrew

but there are some very serious issues and in our public school system that we have got to come to terms with, and and we won't. but So I'm not saying that we don't have it, because I know that there's reasons why we're last in a lot of things. But if we look to the way that that some of the other countries that beat us around the world do their education, they do it so much better than us. And if you look at their early education, I mean, even China,


01:02:10.06

Andrew

China is starting their early education with a good foundation in play because they want to build creative minds. They outdo us in the worker bee mentality, but they or they want to start building the creative mind as well so that they can get into being able to develop new inventions and not just build them. And if they ever do that, then you know they're not going to need us anymore and they're really going to blow us out.


01:02:35.32

Andrew

and I'm waiting to see what their government's going to look like in 20 years when some of these kids that are growing up in play grow up, because unless they figure out a way to keep their thumb on them in ah an authoritative but dictatorship, they're not going to be able to control them. And they're going to become more democratic than we are eventually, because these kids are growing up learning how to be free thinkers in this in this play utopia that they're growing up in. And they really have to quelch it when they get to elementary school.


01:03:03.49

Andrew

But how do you grow up to have a creative mind to develop and invent things if you know you keep your thumb on them and repress them in other areas? So it'll be interesting to see how China changes in 20 years versus how we change in 20 years if we're going to become an authoritarian ah government.


01:03:22.05

Andrew

Very interesting.


01:03:22.56

Wednesday Lee Friday

Well, we're we're heading into the Dark Ages, at least on a federal level, and you know it enrages me because it's coinciding again with the the cancellation of Sesame Street because HBO


01:03:24.66

Andrew

I know. very


01:03:36.05

Wednesday Lee Friday

canceled Sesame Street's contract, um which had saved it after they got screwed over by a previous administration.


01:03:38.12

Andrew

yeah yeah


01:03:44.46

Andrew

yeah


01:03:44.57

Wednesday Lee Friday

um what What happens if we don't have Sesame Street anymore? i mean Isn't that where like really poor kids who don't get to have Head Start or or preschool or or have parents that stay at home and and read to them and teach them to count?


01:03:52.81

Andrew

Well, it will be, it will be


01:03:58.48

Wednesday Lee Friday

What happens to those kids?


01:04:00.02

Andrew

It'll be interesting to see what Sesame Street does, because Sesame Street is bigger than just the show. They have this whole big sideline that they do um in a lot of different areas. So it'll be interesting to see what they do beyond the show, if they last beyond the show, because I know I use them a lot for social-emotional programming and other things. So I'm looking to see how the cancellation of the show changes what they do.


01:04:26.08

Wednesday Lee Friday

um


01:04:26.12

Andrew

sir


01:04:26.42

Debbie

I mean, with with streaming services or with just apps in general.


01:04:32.12

Andrew

Oh, they ah they have a huge, they do a huge thing for teachers and educators.


01:04:32.28

Debbie

um


01:04:36.80

Andrew

They do a huge thing for parents. um So I mean, they're a huge presence in a lot of different different ways besides just the making of the TV show. So I'll be very interested to see.


01:04:46.21

Debbie

Yeah.


01:04:48.17

Andrew

Plus they they do have tv the TV show around the world, not just in the US.


01:04:51.37

Wednesday Lee Friday

Um Mm hmm


01:04:53.87

Andrew

So it'll be interesting to see um if they're able to function. I mean, the TV show obviously in the US made a lot of was probably their biggest entity, but it would be interesting to see if they're able to continue and find a different funder.


01:05:10.33

Andrew

Hopefully one of the other big billionaires out there that has some money.


01:05:12.90

Wednesday Lee Friday

Well, Taylor Swift, Dolly Parton, come on, ladies. Get get on this.


01:05:15.93

Andrew

Yeah, I know. yeah


01:05:16.78

Wednesday Lee Friday

I'll run it. Just just give it to give it to me. I'll run it.


01:05:19.37

Andrew

yeah Brought to


01:05:20.25

Wednesday Lee Friday

Wednes presents Sesame Street. I love it.


01:05:23.71

Andrew

you by the letter W.


01:05:27.33

Wednesday Lee Friday

Whoops. I was going to applaud myself and I forgot I have a mic stand now.


01:05:29.47

Andrew

seriously


01:05:35.16

Wednesday Lee Friday

um All right. So really though, let's let's get into actionable advice. Let's get into the what what can we do? So let's start with with parents of active students. What what can parents do?


01:05:48.36

Andrew

So I am a giant advocate for early childhood education, and I spend quite a few days out of the year going to my state legislators and my federal legislators offices.


01:06:02.23

Andrew

and advocating for different policies that I see. So if there aren't any policies on the table at the time that are being written, then I go to them with what a problem is that I have, and I talk to them about it. And a problem that affects me, because the biggest thing that you can go to and fight for is a personal problem that you have. So if you are a parent of a special needs child,


01:06:27.28

Andrew

You go to them and say, here is what but my child needs and here is what we are losing. If it's an aid, it's the, here's the funding that my child you know you needs for the aid or the transportation for the special busing, blah, blah, blah, whatever it is. And you fight for it because the biggest thing that that they need to hear from is their constituents. One constituent writing them a letter, giving them a phone call especially,


01:06:54.24

Andrew

anything personal and definitely stepping into their office when they're in town or going to one of their there social hours or coffee hours that you can usually find advertised on their websites or social media posts is is worth a thousand of those change dot.org petitions. They really don't even look at those things very much. I mean, it still doesn't hurt to sign one of those things, but the personal touch and your personal story going in there and telling them personally how it affects you and and being one of their voting members, especially. It doesn't hurt to go into ah another one of the state or Fed um legislators, but if you're definitely in their voting area, definitely go in and and speak with them or write to them or call them. Emails are one thing, but they that personal touch speaks volumes. And you tell them your personal story about how it affects them and what you want them to do.


01:07:51.67

Andrew

So it's you want them to stay with the Department of Ed, or you want them to pass a certain bill, or you want them to write a certain bill, and you have to give them what their ask is. And their ask is that you want funding for this, or you don't want them to take away that. ah Title I is important. Title I is all the funding that we get to help these at-risk kids. And the at-risk kids are the kids that are are, if your child is receiving,


01:08:17.52

Andrew

reading intervention or math intervention, all these intervention pieces that you get because you are behind in in reading and math. If your child is getting speech, all these all these um extra services that your child gets at school, those are all services that could be at risk of being lost if all these federal grant monies go away.


01:08:37.69

Andrew

It's important to


01:08:38.29

Debbie

Well, and another thing parents I think can do is just try to keep informed even at a more local level as well. Just go to a board me meeting occasionally. You know, it doesn't have to be every month or ah every couple of weeks, whenever the board meetings are. Just stay informed. And if you have questions or if you have concerns about what's being taught to your children, have a conversation with their teacher.


01:08:59.92

Debbie

don't run for school board on the assumption that something's going wrong in the classroom and try to take over and you know and stop things that aren't really happening. Have conversations with teachers, other parents as well. And I just really appreciate it when parents, even ill-informed parents reach out and talk to me with questions. I had a parent message me on Facebook and say, I had this parent say that there were litter boxes and scratching posts in the teacher's lounge for kids that identify as cats.


01:09:34.59

Debbie

We don't have that, do we?


01:09:34.56

Andrew

Um hmm. Um hmm.


01:09:38.45

Debbie

No, we don't. And the fact that you had to really ask this question hurts my heart, but no, we don't. So if you hear things like that, or if you have questions or concerns, always start with the teacher or the principal or someone at the school.


01:09:54.85

Debbie

And we we're happy to explain things to you. If you don't understand what SEL is or whatever, um or what's being done to help protect kids in the bathroom, all kids, please ask, we will tell you. So really just try to stay informed and don't let yourself be triggered, I guess, or be led to be afraid or suspicious or distrustful. We're there because we care about kids and about making good citizens for our for our country. And ah just the fact that anyone likes to paint another picture is just, it breaks my heart.


01:10:37.02

Andrew

And if you can't attend a board meeting in person, I believe it's a rule now that they have to stream it or somehow.


01:10:44.54

Debbie

you know And ours are all recorded and put on our our school's website.


01:10:47.75

Andrew

yep ah flat Yeah, Yeah, if you're hearing that there's no transparency with schools, most of that is all made up at pretty much everything is on the school website.


01:10:48.00

Wednesday Lee Friday

Oh wow.


01:10:49.47

Debbie

So you can go back and look at them again.


01:11:02.03

Andrew

If you look for it, our contracts are on there. School board information is on there. even um You can even find usually the minutes from the previous meeting on there.


01:11:12.93

Andrew

so


01:11:13.95

Wednesday Lee Friday

When I was a kid, it was uncommon but permitted for a parent to sit in on a classroom. Is that still something that takes place?


01:11:26.67

Andrew

I think since COVID, that kind of stuff, you don't see much anymore. But if you're interested in reading any curriculum, you can request it. All the curriculum is at central office. And you can go and ask to look at it. And pretty much you can opt out of just about anything, I think.


01:11:47.06

Wednesday Lee Friday

and Okay.


01:11:47.27

Debbie

Yeah, we try we just for privacy sake for others, the other students in the classroom. Also, we have a lot of rules about privacy of other students and with with technology in the world, you know, kids record teachers in classrooms sometimes and we wouldn't want parents to have, you know, and an ill intended parent who has an axe to grind with a teacher or even another child. It's just a safer thing to not allow parents to sit in classrooms these days.


01:12:18.59

Wednesday Lee Friday

I see.


01:12:20.19

Debbie

Yeah.


01:12:20.89

Wednesday Lee Friday

So what what kind of advice do you have for other teachers who are maybe getting pressure to teach or not teach things that yeah we know what we're talking about here, right?


01:12:31.40

Wednesday Lee Friday

ah You know, teaching the Bible or pretending slavery had an upside or, you know, weird, weird shit like that. What what should a teacher do when they're faced with that?


01:12:42.34

Wednesday Lee Friday

What what are the options?


01:12:46.67

Debbie

Well, if they're unionized, they should definitely talk to their local association um or even their local UNICEF director. If it's within MEA, I'm not sure what they call people within the AFT, American Federation of Teachers, which is more on the East side of Michigan. But um that's what I would do. Also, ah the ACLU, we have Jay Kaplan, who is a wonderful attorney here for the ACLU in Michigan.


01:13:15.41

Debbie

And he was very helpful when we were dealing with book banning situations and also the Title IX discussion.


01:13:21.24

Wednesday Lee Friday

Oh, cool. So for students, I mean, is there a point where students should just become ungovernable? Because I will tell you, as just a regular old citizen, becoming ungovernable seems like a better and better option. But as a teacher, I imagine you shouldn't encourage that.


01:13:44.96

Wednesday Lee Friday

Thoughts?


01:13:46.16

Andrew

That's probably more for your age. Mine are always ungovernable, so though that's different.


01:13:54.22

Wednesday Lee Friday

Well, but, you know, students, I mean, they stage walkouts over gun violence and over, you know, things that are important, dress codes, you know, some more important than others. But like, what, what should students be doing? I mean, it sounds like staying informed, obviously, is is great for everyone. But what else should students be doing to protect their own right to a good education?


01:14:20.47

Debbie

That's tough, especially in the days of AI right now. um


01:14:29.58

Debbie

I just I wish i so I guess I wish students would understand it's not and and maybe this is a fault of the public education system and how we've done school and how it doesn't necessarily line up with the new technology coming at us.


01:14:44.31

Debbie

But I just wish students would be more invested in their own education and understanding that it does have value. And I guess maybe we haven't done a good job of showing how or why um that they're because they just feel like, well, I can just watch a YouTube video and I can learn that or I'll have AI write my paper or


01:14:59.91

Wednesday Lee Friday

Oh wow.


01:15:04.28

Debbie

So it, there's this learned helplessness and I just, that's what makes me afraid of, um, there's just this lack of desire to learn or this lack of a need to learn or want to learn. I don't know, Andrew, do you see that? You, you probably have AP kids that are, that love school and love learning. I don't know. What do you see?


01:15:26.06

Andrew

Yeah, I mean, I have honors and AP kids, so i you know I'm at a um um but a different different place, I suppose, as far as that goes. But even there, um since COVID, it's been a lot harder to to do to get discussions.


01:15:41.00

Andrew

To get them to work together um is is a much harder thing.


01:15:43.37

Debbie

Yeah.


01:15:45.65

Andrew

they're they're They're in their little silos, and they're on their phones. My school just implemented a thing where they're they're trying to get them off their phones. you know it


01:15:55.90

Debbie

Same.


01:15:56.42

Andrew

in in the classroom, ah which you know is something that I work on with them to try to get them to to work together, to interact with one another.


01:16:06.16

Debbie

Yes.


01:16:07.23

Andrew

And that's that's difficult at that high school level. um you know you You get the ones that interact constantly. And then you get the ones that would just just they they'd be they'd be happy if you put them in a room by themselves.


01:16:21.12

Debbie

Yeah.


01:16:21.28

Andrew

and And it's hard to get them to work together sometimes. So I think that's a A big point to get them to try to get them out of that shell.


01:16:29.93

Debbie

Another thing I've noticed, ah ah it kind of goes with what you're saying, is that they don't interact very well together. And if they're going to interact with other people, it's through technology or through a screen. And so one of the things I've been sure to teach some of my humanities class how to play board games and how to play card games together and just having that face-to-face interaction with each other because they don't know how to do that. Most of them, when I asked my class to raise their hand, how many of you play board games or play cards with your family? Maybe, maybe 25% or less raise their hands.


01:17:07.21

Wednesday Lee Friday

Dang.


01:17:07.49

Debbie

And so there's this sense of just interacting with other human beings, whether it's people in their family, whether it's their friends, there's just no play outside of technology or sports these days, it seems. So that's something I would like our society to kind of get back to is just a sense of interacting in fun, positive ways with each other.


01:17:30.27

Wednesday Lee Friday

Well, and board games is such a great way to go about it. I mean, that's something that that H, my husband, that would guest listeners know that H is my husband by now. But um that is one of the things that we do is we play board games, like even kid ones, like we play trouble, you know, and and trash talk each other, which makes it so much more fun.


01:17:53.00

Wednesday Lee Friday

And I can't imagine people not having a good time doing that. But you know, I'm a big advocate for play.


01:17:57.81

Debbie

Whoo!


01:17:58.02

Wednesday Lee Friday

We're doing a Madlib at the end of the show. So well creativity, communication, patience.


01:18:01.29

Andrew

plays where you know my ah my biggest advocacy areas play. And I advocate for play all through the ages.


01:18:07.83

Debbie

Yeah.


01:18:08.29

Andrew

Even adults should be playing.


01:18:12.25

Andrew

Mm-hmm.


01:18:12.78

Debbie

Problem solving.


01:18:13.97

Andrew

Yeah.


01:18:15.90

Debbie

Yeah, I like how a lot of the board games these days are collaborative where you're working together for the end goal. I really like those games a lot.


01:18:26.20

Wednesday Lee Friday

Nice, nice. Is there anything that we did not cover that is important to this issue?


01:18:35.35

Debbie

There's so many, it's just, there's so many soap boxes to stand on, so many rabbit holes to go down.


01:18:36.09

Andrew

Yeah.


01:18:41.24

Wednesday Lee Friday

I'm sure. and In terms of actionable advice, though, specifically, um is there anything else that people should be doing that they're not doing? What what about school boards? I mean, going to the meetings, sure, um that that is important. um What about like actually wanting to be on the the school board? At what point is that something that a ah parent or a citizen should consider?


01:19:05.99

Andrew

I think that's very important. My school district just had a, well, we just had an election and we, the prior election, there was a ah group of three that all got onto the same, all got onto the school board and has been wreaking havoc in our district since then. And this time there was another three that was going to try to get the majority. And then there was a group of three from the other side that came together and ran.


01:19:34.40

Andrew

And it ended up with two to the good that ended up getting elected. So we're still 4-3.


01:19:41.56

Wednesday Lee Friday

Oh my gosh.


01:19:42.69

Andrew

Which means we're right on the edge.


01:19:42.80

Debbie

ah


01:19:45.31

Andrew

um we' we've We've had a situation where the last two, just because of the way that the elections worked, one guy got on the board immediately and flipped it 3-4 the other way for two meetings, for two months.


01:19:49.22

Debbie

Yeah. Yeah.


01:19:59.67

Andrew

And they just, we just had a five hour board meeting. where they passed a litany of things, everything from you know small changes to the to the rules, to gender-neutral bathrooms, to um all sorts of different things. No, they wanted to take away the gender-neutral bathrooms. Well, they won yes and no, i mean they they but i mean just all sorts of things that they tried to throw up against the wall, and it was a five-hour meeting um while they had control of the board.


01:20:30.21

Debbie

it


01:20:32.25

Andrew

And now we'll see what the new board that gets seated in January does. So these these elections are super important, and there is one side that has been much better at being organized in these small elections, these small local elections.


01:20:47.39

Andrew

And it's not the side that supports public education.


01:20:47.92

Debbie

Yeah.


01:20:50.41

Andrew

It's the side that makes you feel awesome.


01:20:51.06

Debbie

Correct.


01:20:53.12

Andrew

Right. and the


01:20:53.86

Debbie

We had this similar situation in my district.


01:20:55.16

Andrew

Yeah, I teach in Livingston County. And so it's one of the more conservative counties in the entire state of Michigan. And needless to say, they were heavily funded by the local Republican Party and others. And so it was really kind of inspiring to see this group of local parents get involved this time and manage to come out with to one ah in the three elections to kind of save our 4-3 majority in our in our district.


01:21:25.20

Andrew

But it's it's on a knife edge as far as that goes. And there and there's a lot of districts where that's that's true, where I think the the other side has has has learned how to play that ball much better than we do.


01:21:38.63

Andrew

And and so, you know.


01:21:40.05

Debbie

Most definitely. they big well they're They're the ones that have the agenda, a specific agenda, and they have money behind that agenda.


01:21:43.53

Andrew

Yeah. Well, that's true.


01:21:47.22

Andrew

Right. Right. And I think that's true. And I think that's where people need to be involved um you know in their school boards and in their school board elections. And in realizing, I think that the three that got elected to our board originally, it was because they had better signs.


01:22:00.90

Debbie

Uh-huh, same.


01:22:05.63

Andrew

They had they had big signs. They were colorful. They were all together. They ran as a as a group. And they had tons of signs. And so this was.


01:22:14.79

Debbie

Did they go door to door?


01:22:16.16

Andrew

ah Well, I mean, and it wasn't, I don't even think it was that because I mean, school board elections are not always high information voters. um


01:22:23.97

Debbie

That's what ours did.


01:22:24.24

Wednesday Lee Friday

Right.


01:22:24.61

Debbie

They went door to door and made people afraid.


01:22:25.65

Andrew

you know so they it I just think that a lot of people just, that was the names they saw. So that's what they voted for.


01:22:31.44

Debbie

ah


01:22:32.36

Andrew

Well, this this election, the other side did the same thing. So there were more school board signs in my district than I have probably seen total in the other 30,


01:22:43.42

Debbie

Well, that's the thing I've noticed before. You were lucky to get enough people to run for the openings that you had.


01:22:48.91

Andrew

hey


01:22:50.12

Debbie

Now we had like seven people on our ballot for for three positions.


01:22:53.48

Andrew

yeah


01:22:56.16

Debbie

So it's like crazy.


01:22:56.91

Andrew

ye We had six, to kind of a group of three on each side um ah running and and a very active group, well, very active groups on both sides. So it really turned it into an election that was different than any other school board election I've experienced in my 34 years of teaching.


01:23:15.99

Andrew

in this district and you know it barely came out, I think, in our favor in the end. So those local elections are are very important for your schools, especially for your schools.


01:23:27.77

Debbie

Right. Yeah. we're Luckily we're now at a 5-2 majority for the for the right side, so we've scared two away.


01:23:35.17

Andrew

and


01:23:37.55

Wednesday Lee Friday

For reality, yeah.


01:23:38.73

Andrew

You can maybe go go get some rest now, huh, Debbie? Yeah.


01:23:42.29

Debbie

You know it.


01:23:43.21

Andrew

yeah we're We're four three, but there's one that kind of waffles of the four.


01:23:47.47

Debbie

Uh-oh.


01:23:47.48

Andrew

So depending on the, I mentioned earlier, the safe space stickers. And that one was one where she waffled the other way.


01:23:56.99

Wednesday Lee Friday

Oh, for goodness sake.


01:23:56.98

Andrew

And the safe space stickers went away and never got replaced.


01:23:57.34

Debbie

Yeah.


01:24:01.34

Andrew

But, you know, instead I went and bought a bunch of binders for my lab instructions that were all different colors. So if you look around my lab tables, there's a rainbow of lab binders all around the room.


01:24:17.38

Debbie

Yeah, I have a ah paw print that's all like tie-dye rainbow colors that I've stuck to my name plaque on my door.


01:24:23.43

Andrew

Yeah, I got a banner that was all of our all of the schools in the county. And darn if each one wasn't a different color on the side.


01:24:35.82

Wednesday Lee Friday

What an odd coincidence.


01:24:35.95

Andrew

so we can put them off there. They did pass a ah thing that they could only hang. Yeah, you weren't you weren't allowed to. you You can't just put anything you want on your walls. It has to be education related or an American flag or your sports.


01:24:50.06

Debbie

Oh, good lord.


01:24:51.80

Andrew

I can put my soccer team stuff on my walls, but everything else is not supposed to be there. And it was it was primarily to get the, say, space stickers off of the off of the doors, that was the point of it. And really, that's the only part they ever enforced.


01:25:08.25

Wednesday Lee Friday

Oh, you didn't have to replace it with the Ten Commandments?


01:25:08.36

Debbie

Hmm.


01:25:11.07

Andrew

not not Not yet.


01:25:12.28

Debbie

Not yet!


01:25:14.33

Andrew

not Not yet. Give them, give up well, like I said, we were one one person away from perhaps that becoming a reality in my district.


01:25:20.25

Wednesday Lee Friday

Ugh.


01:25:23.31

Andrew

So we're still on the knife's edge. So those local elections are so important.


01:25:29.42

Wednesday Lee Friday

Well, before we get to the Mad Lib, I would like each of you to tell me one book that you think every adult should read.


01:25:37.42

Andrew

Oh my.


01:25:37.50

Wednesday Lee Friday

And it doesn't have to be related to education. It can be anything at all.


01:25:42.28

Andrew

Hmm.


01:25:45.17

Andrew

That's a good one.


01:25:48.55

Wednesday Lee Friday

You can think about it. I can cut out the pauses in post.


01:25:51.46

Andrew

ah What is the name of that?


01:25:54.96

Debbie

oh man


01:26:02.55

Debbie

There's so many that people should be reading!


01:26:04.47

Wednesday Lee Friday

yeah


01:26:06.45

Debbie

Just read! I don't care!


01:26:06.98

Wednesday Lee Friday

All right.


01:26:07.81

Debbie

Read a book!


01:26:07.87

Wednesday Lee Friday

you there's Well, and if if you can't narrow it down to one, you can you can give as many as three because I know that's hard to do.


01:26:08.37

Andrew

There you go.


01:26:09.42

Debbie

In front of your kids!


01:26:10.33

Andrew

Yes, with your kids. yeah


01:26:21.17

Debbie

Hmm.


01:26:25.06

Debbie

What was that? Oh, goodness, I gotta to look these up now.


01:26:27.31

Andrew

Angel, as I said.


01:26:34.41

Debbie

I thought one book that really punched me hard, and it does have to do with education, but and it it basically points out how powerful education can be in the life of a child who has not had a traditional growing up where the parents have really strange ideas of how life should go. um It's called educated.


01:27:00.84

Andrew

that was a good one


01:27:02.43

Debbie

Yeah, a memoir by Tara Westover. It punches you in the face and breaks your heart again and again for this woman. And it's it's a true story of her growing up and basically how a theater, if I'm remembering it correctly, it was a theater teacher that just helped save her and get her to where she needed to be to thrive as an adult without suffering in the way that her mother and her siblings and her father did.


01:27:20.78

Wednesday Lee Friday

Oh, wow.


01:27:33.05

Debbie

and what they did to her and how she kind of came upon came up out of that.


01:27:38.42

Wednesday Lee Friday

Okay. All right, Laura, Andrew, anything?


01:27:43.58

Andrew

Well, Andrew, I think just went up to find the book that he's looking at. Dear Lord, I don't know. um


01:27:55.28

Andrew

Probably one of the books that I reread the most is Little Women. And so even as an adult, I reread that book all the time.


01:28:04.65

Wednesday Lee Friday

uh-huh


01:28:11.90

Andrew

And I don't really even know why I would say that an adult should read that book. I just think that that's a book that everybody should read once in their life. I don't know. I don't know why. Couldn't tell you why.


01:28:25.88

Wednesday Lee Friday

No, no, I get it. I feel that way about Jane Eyre and it's, I mean, it's, it's a story, you know, it's just a story of a lady who does some things and I can't say why I think everyone should read it, but it's just so moving that I don't know.


01:28:38.38

Andrew

thanks It's a book you should read at Christmas time. Oh, that's why I don't know.


01:28:43.24

Wednesday Lee Friday

Oh yeah, right.


01:28:43.57

Andrew

It's just always been a line. It's probably one of the first big real books that I was able to read on my own.


01:28:50.34

Wednesday Lee Friday

Oh wow.


01:28:50.67

Andrew

I read it every year. I don't know. It's a book that I've always loved. and not Yeah, he's still searching.


01:28:56.75

Wednesday Lee Friday

Cool.


01:29:00.68

Andrew

Those are the books that a tree grows in Brooklyn. Those are probably two of my favorite books of all time.


01:29:08.39

Wednesday Lee Friday

Yeah, I mostly read trash as a kid when I started, like when, when I graduated from, from kids' books and went, I went like right to adult books.


01:29:11.15

Andrew

Well, I when I when I when like all my girlfriends are reading like the teen romance books, I was always reading the ones where like, like somebody died of cancer in a car accident, somebody had to die in ah in a teen reading.


01:29:16.58

Wednesday Lee Friday

It was like Stephen King, V.C. Andrews, and I'm like 10. You know?


01:29:35.86

Andrew

And I think that's just where my life was at the time. But I spent a lot of time at my grandmother's house and flushing when because I was living with her as a young teenager. I moved in my sophomore year. And these were the books that she had in her library. So these were the books that I read.


01:29:53.52

Wednesday Lee Friday

Nice. Although I think now that I think about it, I also read Nancy Drew, and then also Trixie Belden.


01:30:02.12

Andrew

Nancy


01:30:02.22

Wednesday Lee Friday

As like kind of an older tween, young teen.


01:30:05.90

Andrew

Nancy Drew, I read a lot of those, but.


01:30:08.30

Wednesday Lee Friday

H loves those too. h has i He was like embarrassed to show me at first that he had a bunch of Nancy Drew books. He thought I'd make fun of him. Like, no, no, you got the wrong girl. I'm never going to make fun of anybody for owning a book.


01:30:22.22

Andrew

No, Andrew read the Nancy Drew books, too. So I think To Kill a Mockingbird, I guess since I named my kid Harper, I should probably. and and you Maybe you should say that one, To Kill a Mockingbird. It's a book everybody should read, too.


01:30:36.18

Debbie

An author I've fallen in love with, and I think I might have shared part of her writings with you Wednesday, is Jenny Lawson.


01:30:42.63

Wednesday Lee Friday

Yes.


01:30:43.25

Andrew

Yeah.


01:30:44.45

Debbie

Fiercely Happy, I will say that book really got me through some really dark times, thanks to our um lovely MAGA boys and the book banning and all of that.


01:30:58.34

Debbie

um But just the way she dealt with really brutal mental health issues, in her own life with such humor and candidly handled it all, but just with just made me laugh. I'm ready to pee my pants. I've got tears rolling down my eyes. She's so damn funny, but so vulnerable at the same time. And I just, I don't know.


01:31:25.33

Debbie

We need to get over the whole stigma over mental health and be able to talk about it and laugh about it, but also have empathy with that as well.


01:31:28.04

Wednesday Lee Friday

Yeah, we do.


01:31:34.35

Wednesday Lee Friday

Yep.


01:31:34.66

Debbie

And I thought she just handled all of it beautifully. So I guess Jenny Lawson, read some of her. I love her.


01:31:43.26

Andrew

And David Sedaris, anything for David.


01:31:45.18

Debbie

Yeah.


01:31:45.59

Wednesday Lee Friday

Oh yeah, yeah, he's great.


01:31:45.70

Debbie

yeah Well, and I guess we also need to say Robin Wall Kimmerer as well, shouldn't we, Laura?


01:31:52.23

Andrew

Oh, gosh, braiding sweetgrass. And to her newest one, even though I have it, I haven't been able to find time to read it.


01:31:54.44

Debbie

Braiding sweet grass.


01:32:00.76

Debbie

Yeah, it's real short. I have it as well.


01:32:01.62

Andrew

I know, you know, service berry, something of the service berry.


01:32:02.56

Debbie

Service, ah what is it? Yeah, something service berries.


01:32:07.68

Andrew

But braiding sweetgrass is just, careful.


01:32:09.73

Debbie

Oh, yeah. Very, very important.


01:32:12.64

Andrew

Very lyrical and, yet yeah, you know, very important.


01:32:15.94

Debbie

Understanding the how, how important our planet really is and how we need to be more reciprocal with it and not


01:32:20.97

Andrew

Oh, there you go.


01:32:22.98

Debbie

not um use it and abuse it.


01:32:26.85

Andrew

See, you can ask a narrow divergent person, what's what's your favorite book? or They don't know how to answer the question.


01:32:34.09

Wednesday Lee Friday

Well, you know, I do do that on the show regularly It's just that usually guests get their list of questions ahead of time and I did not do that this time because there were so many of us and because the first time we recorded I Was in I or we were supposed to record I was in the hospital and I thought I already did it I thought that that part was already done and I didn't think about it and then I was like, oh wait We didn't record and I didn't write questions and I didn't send them to everybody.


01:32:48.33

Andrew

Oh, yeah.


01:32:58.85

Andrew

That's okay.


01:32:59.78

Wednesday Lee Friday

Ah, they're pretty smart.


01:32:59.91

Andrew

That's okay.


01:33:00.44

Debbie

It's okay.


01:33:01.22

Wednesday Lee Friday

Okay


01:33:01.55

Andrew

You know how to talk. How can you not say dune?


01:33:04.53

Debbie

If you don't mind if our


01:33:07.73

Wednesday Lee Friday

Like I said, I remember I have a degree degree in broadcasting. I can cut it out in post. Of course, none of this equipment existed when I got my degree in broadcasting.


01:33:13.64

Andrew

How do you not say dune?


01:33:17.76

Wednesday Lee Friday

I give Stu some crap about that. Hey, man, you didn't teach me anything about podcasting.


01:33:22.26

Andrew

but


01:33:23.16

Wednesday Lee Friday

I had to learn it all from Sigler.


01:33:27.55

Debbie

ha.


01:33:28.29

Wednesday Lee Friday

Right. All right. Is is Andrew coming back?


01:33:32.91

Andrew

and He's standing here. He's trying to think of something. that I wish I could help him. He's trying to find the name of the book.


01:33:36.60

Wednesday Lee Friday

Oh, for goodness sake.


01:33:39.28

Andrew

ah It's one of your fantasies. I have no idea what it is. It's not a fantasy book. It's an education book. An education book.


01:33:45.69

Debbie

What's it about?


01:33:47.43

Andrew

Teaching.


01:33:50.00

Debbie

Okay.


01:33:50.56

Wednesday Lee Friday

Hetagogy and me.


01:33:53.33

Andrew

It's called teaching as a subversive activity.


01:33:57.43

Wednesday Lee Friday

Oh, nice.


01:33:58.41

Andrew

by Neil Postman and Charles Weingartner from 1960 something.


01:34:02.74

Wednesday Lee Friday

Uh oh.


01:34:05.39

Debbie

Way back in the 1900s.


01:34:08.25

Andrew

Yup, it was given to me by an assistant principal in Heartland. She said the name of your school. Oh, sorry. Given by an assistant principal in my district.


01:34:22.20

Andrew

And it's ah it's a wonderful book. I mean, it's yeah, it's old, right? It's 50 plus years old, but it it's still very timely. I can't find it because every once in a while I pull it out and read it and then I put it somewhere new and find it again.


01:34:32.67

Wednesday Lee Friday

Cool.


01:34:39.71

Wednesday Lee Friday

All right, kids, it is time for the Mad Lib. You all know how Mad Libs work, right?


01:34:44.28

Andrew

ah


01:34:45.08

Debbie

I did one just last week with my students.


01:34:46.56

Wednesday Lee Friday

Nice, nice. All right, Deb, we're going to start with you.


01:34:48.63

Andrew

about


01:34:49.69

Wednesday Lee Friday

Give me a noun.


01:34:52.12

Debbie

Um, nostril. I teach middle school. Give me a break.


01:34:57.73

Wednesday Lee Friday

ah Laura, verb ending in ING.


01:34:57.75

Andrew

but um Running.


01:35:05.10

Wednesday Lee Friday

Andrew, you've got a noun.


01:35:08.57

Andrew

Book.


01:35:11.51

Wednesday Lee Friday

ah Debbie, I need a plural noun.


01:35:16.14

Debbie

Hmm, fingernails.


01:35:21.82

Wednesday Lee Friday

And Laura, another noun.


01:35:26.22

Andrew

I teach five-year-olds. So let me get my head out of the five-year-old thing.


01:35:30.49

Wednesday Lee Friday

You don't have to.


01:35:32.20

Andrew

OK.


01:35:32.41

Debbie

Five-year-old things are funny sometimes.


01:35:34.32

Wednesday Lee Friday

Yeah, there.


01:35:34.70

Andrew

OK. Now, if you're talking, and I'm going to say poop.


01:35:38.80

Debbie

Woo-hoo!


01:35:38.88

Andrew

ah


01:35:41.03

Debbie

Now we're talking.


01:35:42.31

Andrew

ah


01:35:42.72

Wednesday Lee Friday

Oh, good. Andrew, a part of the body.


01:35:45.84

Andrew

I'm sorry. What was that?


01:35:47.30

Wednesday Lee Friday

A part of the body.


01:35:49.23

Debbie

Oh!


01:35:49.20

Andrew

Oh, there we go.


01:35:50.86

Debbie

Good one!


01:35:51.71

Wednesday Lee Friday

Wait, what was it?


01:35:53.17

Andrew

Part of the body. You're asking a high school soccer coach. Okay. um Well, high school soccer coach foot. Thank you.


01:36:04.20

Debbie

Shin would be good too, but just saying.


01:36:05.73

Andrew

Well, we know we don't really play with the shed. It's a foot sport.


01:36:09.58

Wednesday Lee Friday

All right, Deb, I need a plural noun.


01:36:13.96

Debbie

um Let's see...


01:36:20.61

Debbie

Oh, goodness, why is this so hard?


01:36:22.56

Wednesday Lee Friday

Because you're smart and you want to think of a good word that the smarter you are, the the more intellectual vanity you have.


01:36:25.17

Debbie

I wanna be clever, yeah.


01:36:30.30

Andrew

yeah


01:36:31.02

Wednesday Lee Friday

Which I mean that that's like one of my biggest problems is my intellectual vanity. You can tell me I'm fat and ugly all day long, but if you say I'm dumb, we're going to tangle.


01:36:40.25

Debbie

Okay, well, I'm looking at a container of coconut water, so I'm gonna say coconuts.


01:36:46.03

Wednesday Lee Friday

Oh, right. Laura adjective.


01:36:48.96

Andrew

Lovely, because it goes with coconuts.


01:36:56.15

Wednesday Lee Friday

Andrew adjective.


01:36:59.58

Andrew

Let's keep with the coconut theme fuzzy.


01:37:03.86

Wednesday Lee Friday

Yes, that's what the word fuzzy makes me think of, coconut.


01:37:06.49

Andrew

yeah


01:37:07.03

Wednesday Lee Friday

um Deb, adverb.


01:37:10.11

Debbie

Oh, um secretly.


01:37:15.58

Wednesday Lee Friday

And Laura, noun.


01:37:18.15

Andrew

Guitar.


01:37:20.01

Wednesday Lee Friday

Andrew, one more noun.


01:37:22.79

Andrew

Skateboard.


01:37:27.27

Wednesday Lee Friday

All right, this is called a ghastly ghost story and it's a part two, but we're going to just join it in progress. Um, relax, said the nostril.


01:37:35.18

Andrew

okay


01:37:39.27

Wednesday Lee Friday

You're running like a leaf, but you need not be afraid. I am a friendly book. Really? I said, wow, I can't wait for you to meet my fingernails.


01:37:53.53

Wednesday Lee Friday

I would love to, but unfortunately, I can only reveal myself to the first poop who falls asleep. The ghost replied. And in the blink of a foot, the ghost was gone. I ran to awaken myself. Oh, wait, we left out of per a plural noun. Oops, that's my bad. Somebody give me a plural noun.


01:38:18.03

Andrew

Oh.


01:38:20.57

Wednesday Lee Friday

Okay, so I ran to awaken my sleeping microphones to tell them what had happened, but they said they didn't believe me. They told me I'd lost all my coconuts. But I could tell they wish they had seen the lovely ghost. Sure enough, the next time I had a sleepover at my fuzzy house, each girl tried secretly to be the first guitar to fall asleep and meet the friendly skateboard.


01:38:47.58

Andrew

Yay!


01:38:50.51

Wednesday Lee Friday

irreverent.


01:38:52.30

Debbie

Mmm.


01:38:52.89

Andrew

and


01:38:53.03

Wednesday Lee Friday

Right. Thank you guys so much for being here and helping out with this. Um, I'm really worried about the new administration, like any normal person is or would be. Um, and I wanted to, ah you know, I'm like basically coping by trying to do something and hopefully, um, talking about education, giving people tips, being very realistic about what is happening will be helpful.


01:39:19.36

Wednesday Lee Friday

So really thank you all so much for being here.


01:39:23.84

Debbie

Oh, no problem. It's always important to have someone that wants to hear about what's going on and um and be proactive about how to help.


01:39:25.00

Andrew

You're very good.


01:39:35.34

Wednesday Lee Friday

Right on.


01:39:35.61

Andrew

him Yeah, thanks for having us.


01:39:35.76

Debbie

Thank you for this.


01:39:36.82

Wednesday Lee Friday

I want to remind our listeners to check us out on Ko-fi. We are sponsored by sometimes hilarious horror magazine. So the best way to support us is to support the magazine.


01:39:48.80

Wednesday Lee Friday

um And we'll see everybody next week with another special episode. Bye.


01:39:56.07

Andrew

Bye. Bye.


01:39:57.41

Debbie

Bye!



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