Mentally Oddcast Transcript: Author Tamara Thorne
Find the audio version of this podcast here.
Fine more from Tamara Thorne here.
00:00:00.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
You are listening to the Mentally Oddcast. My name is Wednesday, leave Friday, and we are brought to you by Sometimes Hilarious Horror Magazine. Find us on ko-fi. This week, our guest is Tamara Thorne.
00:00:15.79
Tamara
You.
00:00:16.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
Damn it.
00:00:20.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Tamara Thorne's first novel was published in 1991, and since then she's written many more, including the bestseller- bestseller- including international bestsellers Brimstone, Haunted, Bad Things, Moonfall, and Eternity.
00:00:39.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
A lifelong lover of ghost stories, she is currently working on several collaborations with Alistair Cross. Y'all know Alistair, he was just here. And that includes the next installment of the Ravencrest saga, which we did talk about, as well as the Spiral Sea, the next Old Wives tale novel.
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Wednesday Lee Friday
um And let's see, we'll have links in the description. Hi, Tamara, thank you so much for being here.
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Tamara
Hi, Wednesday. Thank you for asking me.
00:01:05.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
so should Am I saying Tamara or is it Tamara?
00:01:08.19
Tamara
Oh, no, Tamara, rhymes with camera. You said it perfectly, but I knew why you giggled when you started to say it, because everybody says it wrong.
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Wednesday Lee Friday
and Okay.
00:01:15.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah Yeah, I'm i' bad at that, it certainly, but you know, it it seems like when I do these intros, I try so hard to be respectful of the guest that I end up, like, misgendering people accidentally and, like, mispronouncing their names.
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Tamara
No, I don't. ah you can I don't care what gender you anybody thinks I am. but sorry It's all good.
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Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, sir...
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Tamara
Thank you.
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Wednesday Lee Friday
So we ah we generally start the show by asking guests to tell us the story of the first horror movie that they remember seeing, and I would love to hear yours.
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Tamara
Oh, boy, that's a toughie. I think the very first, but I didn't really understand it was horror. I know now it was um The Hands of Orlok.
00:02:00.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, okay.
00:02:00.53
Tamara
And I was, this isn't what you expected to hear.
00:02:00.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:02:03.33
Tamara
This was the first one. I was about five and I was sitting in my grandmother's house in the dark while she and my mother were on the other side of the house talking, watching the hands of Orlok on TV. And so here was the this, these pianist crawling hands, you know, walking all over the place. I thought that was great.
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Tamara
But then Then, older, I saw um
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Tamara
Hush, Hush, Sweet Charlotte.
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Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh nice, nice.
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Tamara
That's what we're expecting, I think. Okay, we went to a theater. Daddy Dearest, um he always was trying to make sure that I was very not cowardly, you see.
00:02:45.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
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Tamara
he um when the When the hand comes off, Bruce Dern's hand gets chopped off,
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Wednesday Lee Friday
Uh huh.
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Tamara
And you get that hand waving, you know, the the bloody stump waving. My hands went up over my eyes. I was traumatized. I really was.
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Tamara
This was PTSD time, even though they didn't have that word yet.
00:03:03.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:03:07.38
Tamara
It was horrible. He yanks my hands off my eyes, whispers that I'm a coward and tries to keep all through the movie, tried to keep pushing my chin up and trying to force me to watch. Fortunately, he couldn't pull my eyelids up.
00:03:20.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, not for nothing, but your dad sounds like kind of a dick.
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Tamara
But...
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Tamara
He was a dick. He's had a little man syndrome. And I think he was kicked around a lot because he was the last child of the first wife who way back when I was a very late child for my parents, too.
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Tamara
Um, yeah. His mother ran off from West Virginia to go to Broadway. She wanted to be an actress. She was about 23 and already had six kids.
00:03:49.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
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Tamara
Well, my father was the last kid of wife number one. They caught her and threw her in an insane asylum. And my brother, my who's old enough to be my father, thank God, because he's my real father figure.
00:04:01.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
What a shame.
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Tamara
He's a nice man. Um, he found her shortly before the end of her life, think in the late 1980s, she spent the rest of her life there because she dared run off from this life.
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Tamara
But my father, I think, bore a lot of the brunt of the anger. And so he was definitely a dick. I didn't like him.
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Wednesday Lee Friday
what a shame
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Tamara
And so anyway, hush, hush, we Charlotte, which I'd already seen whatever happened to baby Jane and I loved it.
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Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow. Wow.
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Tamara
Nothing bothered me, but that hand coming off in my face, I still have never seen the head roll down the stairway, but I'm told it really happens. I just can't. And I slept with the lights on for several years after that and the nightmares.
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Tamara
So that was my first bad horror movie. But Hands of Warlock was, that makes me feel good because I didn't mind Severed Hands except for that choppy movie. And I still don't watch choppy movies, you know, hostile or any of that. That's icky.
00:05:06.55
Tamara
I like ghosts.
00:05:06.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
Interesting. Well, yeah, i wouldn't I wouldn't guess that you were an extreme horror fan. That just does not seem like your style.
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Tamara
Oh, not unless it's Sam Raimi and Bruce Campbell. And then it's fine because it's funny and it makes you laugh and, you know, the parts fly everywhere. and And I like that.
00:05:24.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure.
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Tamara
I don't like torture. I saw boys from Brazil once. Never again. Yeah.
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Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, that movie's nuts. Man.
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Tamara
yeah
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Wednesday Lee Friday
I saw that, like, too young to understand it, really, so it seemed very surreal. Like, wait a minute, because I was just like, okay, but if Hitler's bad, then, like, all these people are bad?
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Tamara
Yeah.
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Wednesday Lee Friday
Because he's a little kid, but he's bad. and Like, it's just...
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Tamara
Yeah, and I don't even remember that part. I just remember the teeth getting pulled. And so um no, no, no.
00:06:00.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh wait, so you're talking about Marathon Man.
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Tamara
Was that Marathon Man? I thought that was Boys from Brazil.
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Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. Voice from Brazil is the movie where they're trying to clone Hitler.
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Tamara
didn't like that.
00:06:09.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Marathon Man is the Dustin Hoffman one where they torture him with dentistry.
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Tamara
Oh, okay. I confused them, but I've seen them both and I don't like them. Okay.
00:06:20.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, Marathon Man is is a tough watch because the thing that they're torturing him for, he doesn't actually know. He does not have the information, and they don't believe him, so...
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Tamara
Oh my.
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Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, that's a rough one.
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Tamara
Wow.
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Wednesday Lee Friday
But it turns out that Dustin Hoffman is a complete ass in real life, so we don't have to feel bad about it.
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Tamara
I was just talking about that earlier. yeah It's okay. I like them as little big man.
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Wednesday Lee Friday
Right? Right?
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Tamara
Yeah. Yeah, that was really good.
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Wednesday Lee Friday
loved that movie when I was a kid.
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Tamara
Oh, I love it. And I just, I read the book about a year ago and it's even better.
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Wednesday Lee Friday
wow. I've never read it.
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Tamara
it's It's great. And the sequel to it, which is probably called Big Man 2, I don't remember, is also great. But he the same author wrote like Arthur Rex, which is a modern version of Lamarthe to Arthur and all kinds of good stuff like that.
00:07:03.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
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Wednesday Lee Friday
Neat.
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Tamara
Yeah. I like me so best.
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Wednesday Lee Friday
So listen, I really want to get into your diagnosis because when I asked you, ah you said you were ADHD and like it. Now, I need to know what you like about it.
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Tamara
that's right I had to scramble to think of a diagnosis. And I asked Alistair and he explained that to me because I never really thought of it that way.
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Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
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Tamara
I saw special on TV years ago where they said, this is ADHD. So I went to a shrink and said, I have this. And she said, oh, bullshit.
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Tamara
Well, she didn't say that. um She said, everybody thinks that now. And so I got a different shrink. And he said, oh, my, yes. And um because I had all the symptoms.
00:08:01.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
you
00:08:01.44
Tamara
And the thing is, if I weren't ADHD, just a little h, um I don't think I would to be a writer.
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Tamara
It's creativity. It lets me think sideways. I was always going to write a book about it called Lateral Thinking, but I never got around to it because I like fiction better. and
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Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I feel that way about bipolar just disorder, that if I wasn't that particular brand of messed up, I probably wouldn't feel as much need to get it out through fiction.
00:08:24.49
Tamara
it's
00:08:30.88
Tamara
ah
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Tamara
That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I agree.
00:08:41.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
So you have an official diagnosis, but it started with self-diagnosis, it sounds like.
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Tamara
Oh, yeah. Oh, no, it's not self. It was official. And my husband is the same, which means we have the massiest house on earth. But we're also, you know, I'm not even high school. We've been married a million years. And we're also and right now I'm away from home for a week. I'm going home tomorrow and we're missing each other. i count that as a big plus.
00:09:07.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I know that feeling.
00:09:08.38
Tamara
so and oh no I gotta go home but they would have us come in and talk to ADD groups because we're both ADD and ah I came away knowing that I'm so glad I wasn't married to somebody who's a normie because they would me feel bad about not being able to keep anything clean you know that's so boring that
00:09:24.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right?
00:09:32.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, it's it's rough. Like, my husband hates clutter. And our whole place is clutter because it's a dinky little apartment with tons of collectibles.
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Tamara
uh-huh
00:09:41.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
Plus, you know, I'm running a business out of my kitchen. and it's just, you know, everything gets so crowded around here. And he, I think he's learned to deal with clutter because the only other alternative would be constantly cleaning up after me. yeah.
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Tamara
well he's either got to enjoy cleaning up or live with it that's the thing
00:09:57.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:10:00.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep, yep, and i picked the second one. So...
00:10:03.59
Tamara
Yeah, that's good. and You always say such nice things about him on Facebook and all that.
00:10:09.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, he's great.
00:10:10.13
Tamara
He sounds like a great guy.
00:10:10.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
He's a he's a good dude. um And the thing is that I...
00:10:12.77
Tamara
That's
00:10:14.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
that i yeah in Initially, I would say that I like... I wouldn't say that i I exaggerated, but I always made it a point to post good things about him because for the longest time, made terrible choices regarding men.
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Wednesday Lee Friday
I almost married two alcoholics in a row because they were different enough that I was like, oh no, he's totally different.
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Tamara
Oh, good Lord.
00:10:38.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
but and But, yeah, just appalling choices. Well, you know, i mean, I... grew up fat with no self-esteem and I was you know I had like came from an abusive home and was told every day that like I didn't deserve anything good until I lost weight and then I would magically deserve wonderful things and uh you know which is a terrible thing to tell that you tell a kid I I wish Kung Fu Panda had been around when I was like a toddler and I could have spent my whole life being like see you can be fat and be a Kung Fu Panda
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Tamara
Yeah. oh
00:11:02.36
Tamara
It sure is.
00:11:07.55
Tamara
and
00:11:12.15
Tamara
Exactly.
00:11:13.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know
00:11:13.46
Tamara
Exactly.
00:11:14.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
i was in my 40s before I realized I could in fact be a Kung Fu Panda.
00:11:14.18
Tamara
It's a whole other to
00:11:18.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
And here I am.
00:11:19.93
Tamara
Yeah, it's great. but What I was picked up, I was pretty normal. When I reached teen years, I was flat chested and learned but all about foam rubber bras.
00:11:30.38
Tamara
And that was the only thing used to bother me.
00:11:30.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah Wow.
00:11:31.97
Tamara
Now I think it's wonderful, but um less gravity problems.
00:11:37.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
So toxted.
00:11:38.27
Tamara
yeah But my father, i was never good enough. um He would jump out of the dark at me and call me a coward if I reacted.
00:11:49.26
Tamara
And so that's what I dealt with rather than body issues, you know, until i became the titless wonder. But um
00:11:58.48
Tamara
it was not pleasant.
00:12:00.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, living with a bully. I mean, you get, you end up with PTSD before you even get to be an adult.
00:12:03.01
Tamara
Yeah. Yeah. your Your mother was a bully too, right?
00:12:09.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm. Yep.
00:12:09.88
Tamara
Yeah.
00:12:11.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, and you know, you go through, like I went through this phase where I said, you know, I shouldn't be so hard on her.
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Tamara
Yeah.
00:12:17.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
She's mentally ill and she doesn't know what she's doing. And the thing is that she was a completely different person in front of other people than when it was just us kids.
00:12:28.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, even even her husband did not see the worst of it.
00:12:28.19
Tamara
Oh, sure.
00:12:31.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
So that...
00:12:33.88
Tamara
Yeah, my mother never saw.
00:12:34.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
I eventually figured out like, oh wait, you can control yourself just fine, you just don't want to when it's just us. It's not worth it to control yourself for us.
00:12:42.96
Tamara
Right. My mom was the sweetest person on earth and she fed, you know, like fed me all the horror I wanted and any book I wanted, there was no, no kind of censorship or anything. She just did whatever I wanted, you know, can we go to the cemetery and read gravestones?
00:12:58.55
Tamara
Turns out she really liked doing that, but she was great. But she When she was really old, I asked her if she remembered my father jumping out of the dark at me.
00:13:09.23
Tamara
And her eyes opened wide and she said, how do you remember that? You were six months old. And I told him if you ever if he ever did that again, I would take you and leave. And I just said, wow, I must have some memory.
00:13:20.88
Tamara
And then tell her I was probably eight or ten. And I remembered him doing that multiple times. He just did it whenever wasn't home.
00:13:25.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:13:27.58
Tamara
But she had no idea. you know, and she... living with him all our life. It's amazing what people get away with.
00:13:35.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
It sure is.
00:13:38.35
Tamara
Yeah.
00:13:38.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
So how old were you when you were diagnosed?
00:13:42.57
Tamara
ah thirty
00:13:44.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. And when that happened, I mean, were you already, you I guess you said you were already with your husband at that time.
00:13:50.68
Tamara
Oh, yeah, I've been with him since I was a, so I met him when I was 15.
00:13:50.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
So. Oh,
00:13:54.84
Tamara
I never dated anybody else even.
00:13:55.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
wow.
00:13:56.80
Tamara
We just, I asked him to a backwards dance. he used to do my chemistry homework for me because I couldn't do math or any of that stuff. And I'd do his English. And he, well, I just lost track. This is ADD in action.
00:14:13.38
Tamara
What about,
00:14:13.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right. So you asked him to the dance.
00:14:17.21
Tamara
Yeah, I asked him to the dance because I had to ask somebody. And um he asked me to marry him that night. And we just stayed together. you know
00:14:24.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
wow
00:14:25.46
Tamara
liked each other. And so we've always been real close friends. And, you know, even and and hard times and all that. But fortunately, now we're sitting here missing each other.
00:14:37.13
Tamara
ah So it's good.
00:14:40.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow, that is so great.
00:14:40.11
Tamara
you know
00:14:42.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
So how did he take your diagnosis? Did he, like, already know?
00:14:47.40
Tamara
He was fascinated. He went and saw the shrink too, because we knew we were very much the same person. And um yeah, he's, he's much more of a wiggler.
00:14:59.13
Tamara
He'll drive me crazy. I have to put my hand on his knee to stop his feet from moving, you know, that kind of thing. And he's got a lot of age. I have very little age. And it was obvious. And the the way we keep our house, the way we do everything and start things and never finish them and all that.
00:15:18.11
Tamara
And yeah, you know, that's how we ended up talking to other couples as an ADHD couple. So yeah.
00:15:25.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
So were there situations where you needed accommodations or were you just already writing and doing your own thing without any help?
00:15:33.34
Tamara
I had already sold book and, um, It was the shrink. um He said, well, we can try some things. And he had me, um I'd sold a couple of books at least.
00:15:50.74
Tamara
And I tried SSRI. I had never been so easygoing in my life. I didn't give a rat's ass if I wrote another book or anything else.
00:16:04.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:16:04.24
Tamara
I was just cruising. And I said, this is no good.
00:16:06.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:16:07.82
Tamara
I'm not anxious enough. I want to be me. And, um, he gave me, uh, And Ritalin. And I would use that because I can't stay awake in the morning.
00:16:17.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
okay
00:16:17.92
Tamara
for I can stay awake all night, but not in the morning. And so I used Ritalin for years, but I slowly stopped using anything. And the key is i started turning down any writing projects that didn't interest me because I could never concentrate.
00:16:33.74
Tamara
I have to be able to turn on that hyper-focus thing that you can do if you're ADD.
00:16:37.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep. Yep.
00:16:38.84
Tamara
And then I love what I'm doing and I don't fall asleep at least after 12 noon.
00:16:45.13
Tamara
And that's how I control it is I only write what I want to write. And that's also how sometimes you see on Facebook, Alistair will post something where he's gone ahead in our manuscript and written dirty things or funny things.
00:17:00.15
Tamara
Yeah.
00:17:00.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
00:17:01.30
Tamara
Yeah.
00:17:01.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:17:01.58
Tamara
Well, he does that because he knows how much I love it. And I do all the out loud reading and he likes to listen and I like to read. So we're also made for each other because if I had to listen, I'd be asleep.
00:17:16.49
Tamara
And so he goes ahead and does that. And that livens things up like you wouldn't believe. and And sometimes we keep stuff from it. He did something yesterday that I ended up putting a note off to the side to add this.
00:17:31.21
Tamara
It was not what he put on Facebook though. It wasn't that interesting. But yeah, that's that's the way it's done, at least by me. Yeah.
00:17:41.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, that's a common thing with people that have ADD. Also, i think I'm told that like autistics also do this, but this sense of doing your best work when you're super stressed out and there's lots of pressure and...
00:17:57.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, you get that, like, adrenaline that pushes you forward, which and I think when you look at it objectively, like, when I do that, it doesn't feel particularly healthy, but I don't, but that's something that I think about later.
00:17:57.98
Tamara
yeah
00:18:07.75
Tamara
No.
00:18:10.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
At the time, I'm like, oh, yeah, check it, I'm getting everything done. And then later, it's like, okay, well, I need to sleep for two days and maybe have some water.
00:18:16.14
Tamara
in
00:18:20.50
Tamara
yeah
00:18:21.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:18:22.01
Tamara
It only works well for me, though, if I'm not stressed about anything else, if there's anything on my mind that's not writing related. I can't, it's like there's a one track mind and it'll go up to the top and the beacon will go off.
00:18:31.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
00:18:35.46
Tamara
And I learned to compartmentalize a lot because it'll just stop me. I don't like anxiety. And I did, he did. I also don't fall asleep at night. And way back when he gave me some Xanax and um he said, you know, take a couple of day. Well, I took one during the daytime once.
00:18:57.00
Tamara
And that was the first time I ever walked through a grocery store and made eye contact with people and didn't walk really fast. It was fascinating. I didn't particularly like it. I like walking fast and and avoiding humans.
00:19:09.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:19:09.83
Tamara
honey ah And I used it.
00:19:10.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure.
00:19:13.02
Tamara
I took one once when I went to Knott's Scary Farm because ah and found out that if I wasn't quite as high tension as I normally am, I could go through dark rides without keeping my eyes squeezed closed.
00:19:26.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, wow.
00:19:26.52
Tamara
But normally I would just take one at bedtime. And now I don't really even do that. I'd rather do what you do if I do anything at all.
00:19:35.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. I mean, I do take CBD at to sleep, unless I'm, like, in the hospital. In the hospital, they make me take melatonin. don't know what it is about hospitals and not letting me take CBD or smoke weed before.
00:19:44.24
Tamara
Oh, yeah.
00:19:48.58
Tamara
That's nuts.
00:19:48.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
people Like, come on, guys. but um
00:19:51.21
Tamara
I didn't think melatonin worked until I took a 60 milligram cap. then That worked pretty well.
00:19:55.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, you need, I need kind of a lot. I need, like, 10, which they say is too high, but I don't know.
00:20:01.33
Tamara
I need 60. me ah i
00:20:04.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
everybody's guessing and the thing is you need sleep you need it so if that's what it takes then then that's what it takes
00:20:05.37
Tamara
Yeah, 10 is nothing.
00:20:08.91
Tamara
Yeah.
00:20:12.07
Tamara
Yeah. Six caps of 10 will put me to sleep, but I don't know. A good book will put me to sleep even better. That's what I normally have always used to follow sleep with.
00:20:19.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
right right nice yeah see i got out of that habit because i have an ipad hanging above my bed
00:20:22.52
Tamara
I get to read when I go to bed.
00:20:31.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
And because we watch movies and stuff, and then like when I wake up, I can work from bed for a few hours. But that's bad, man.
00:20:37.42
Tamara
Oh, wow.
00:20:38.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
The screens. Shouldn't do screens right before bed. That's what they say. And I know that I did sleep better when I read before bed instead of being on a screen.
00:20:42.03
Tamara
oh like
00:20:46.55
Tamara
I read before bed from about five years old on. My mom taught me to read. i mean, she held me in her lap when I was a baby from the first day and her finger was moving with the book. So I was a really early reader. But ever since I can remember, I was laying in bed reading books at night and she wouldn't stop me. I could read as late as I wanted.
00:21:06.55
Tamara
And um that was great. And so I still do that. That's like my reward for getting through the day. They love it. And i do read on a Kindle, but I got a new one and it has a black background with white letters if I want.
00:21:21.47
Tamara
And that's wonderful.
00:21:22.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, fantastic.
00:21:23.80
Tamara
Yeah. And it's a cheap Kindle. It's just a fire that was, you know, older at the end of the year.
00:21:28.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:21:28.96
Tamara
was like 50 bucks, but oh, it's easy to read. yeah.
00:21:32.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, that's why I don't use pages. And I have to use Word no matter what when I'm writing, because it lets you do the blue background white text.
00:21:38.08
Tamara
Oh,
00:21:40.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it's so much better on my eyes.
00:21:41.10
Tamara
ah that's nice. Yeah, I have to turn everything kind of dimmed down. My eyes are real light sensitive. They're vampire eyes. but that It's pretty good.
00:21:54.02
Tamara
Okay.
00:21:54.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, so let me ask you this. Now obviously you have had a long and impressive writing career, which might lead people to say that you overcame your ADD. Is that what you would say?
00:22:07.43
Tamara
I learned how to control it and use it. it I made it my bitch.
00:22:14.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and that's, yeah, I mean, that's, that's what I would say that like, even with, with what I go through with bipolar, it's like, I just turned it to my advantage. I, you know, I figured out how to use it and, and how to recognize when things are happening so that I can not make any plans when I'm going to, when I feel myself like dipping into deep depression, or that's when I'll like make a bunch of notes for stuff I'm going to write about when I feel better.
00:22:40.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
But yeah, I mean,
00:22:40.40
Tamara
I was going to ask you what you meant by that. and Now you're telling me that's cool.
00:22:44.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, it's just the kind of, um, because these things are not cured. They're simply managed and you just live with it and try to figure out how to do all the stuff you want to do with it.
00:22:52.17
Tamara
Yeah.
00:22:55.87
Tamara
Well, do you ever enjoy killing people? You know, with someone in mind that you particularly dislike? Uh-huh.
00:23:03.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
Uh, interestingly, novel is about a mentally ill fat girl who kills her mother.
00:23:11.25
Tamara
Yeah. Yeah, there you go.
00:23:12.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
And people say, is that about you? And I say, how dare you?
00:23:17.58
Tamara
Yeah, well, it's not really, if you truly write about yourself, you're not going to write well. It has to be externalized.
00:23:25.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I mean, my book, my first book, Total Mary Sue. I own it, you know, that that's what it is.
00:23:30.82
Tamara
oh
00:23:31.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
I wrote it because I had a bunch of stuff I wanted to say about my own life.
00:23:35.43
Tamara
Sure.
00:23:36.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
I wanted to get it off my chest. And frankly, I think that sad teenage girls seem to like it a whole lot, even though I was in my dreams when I wrote it.
00:23:38.37
Tamara
Uh-huh.
00:23:44.11
Tamara
Oh, boy. Well, at least it's not like the bell jar or something.
00:23:49.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right. Yeah, well, it's not Atlas Shrugged, so...
00:23:50.97
Tamara
That would be wrong. Yeah. Oh, good Lord. Yeah.
00:23:57.55
Tamara
you
00:23:59.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right?
00:23:59.95
Tamara
yeah
00:24:00.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
Actually, I'm bringing it back out.
00:24:01.26
Tamara
so
00:24:02.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
i just I just pulled it from publication because I'm going to spiff it up and give it a new title and re-release it. It hasn't been available in paperback for a while. It was just digital when I was over at Crossroads Press.
00:24:13.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
00:24:13.33
Tamara
Oh, nice.
00:24:14.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
so So, yeah, I'm going to be putting it back out. I'll i'll send you one. it's Because I mostly write short stories now, so I need to send you something long form so you can, like, immerse yourself.
00:24:18.12
Tamara
Oh, I'd love to read that. and
00:24:24.98
Tamara
Yeah, I'm much more a long form person.
00:24:27.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:24:28.21
Tamara
it's I need a character. The first time Alistair and I tried to write together, we thought we'd try a short story.
00:24:35.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep. No don't know.
00:24:35.94
Tamara
It became a novel instantly because we're both character writers. We want to know what the character is thinking. And the character comes in, takes over, and that's that. It's a novel.
00:24:47.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:24:47.09
Tamara
And I don't think we've ever written anything under 100,000 words, even if we try.
00:24:50.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
oh
00:24:51.94
Tamara
so that's the shortest.
00:24:52.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
no Now, I adore Alistair. I love him online. We've had some great long talks about texting and whatnot in addition to him coming on the show.
00:25:00.11
Tamara
Yeah.
00:25:03.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'm aware, though, that earlier on you had another writing partner and that that did not go particularly well.
00:25:03.82
Tamara
Sure.
00:25:10.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
um I don't know how much of that you're comfortable sharing, but I would love to hear all about it.
00:25:16.24
Tamara
I'm pretty sure that one has part departed the veil or passed through the whatever you say for being dead. I'm not positive, but my old editor and I are pretty sure.
00:25:22.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
croaked.
00:25:27.53
Tamara
um That was, Yeah, and actually, Alistair had a very similar experience to me, and that's part of what brought us together, was understanding that we were the two that hated drama, and we're always making nice.
00:25:44.12
Tamara
And so that was a really good thing to do, is to bring two nice people together. you know, ah but i
00:25:52.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
Let's not.
00:25:53.59
Tamara
This was back in snail mail. And I met several people back then through a writing group. And guys were published now, just like me.
00:26:04.62
Tamara
But she was, I don't even know if I should say her first name. It was never known.
00:26:10.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
let's not
00:26:11.77
Tamara
Okay, we'll call her Susie. um She contacted me. I'd seen her listing and saw she was local and thought, I'm not touching that. This was an old hippie.
00:26:23.36
Tamara
And, um, she contacted me though. And then we decided we should write a book together. And, um, I've always needed help with getting off my butt and sticking to things, ADHD.
00:26:38.37
Tamara
And, um, ah She was good at that. And I learned to smoke cigarettes in her presence to keep from getting migraines. But fortunately i have a non-addictive body.
00:26:51.10
Tamara
I don't addict. It's really weird. um
00:26:54.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
I am jealous.
00:26:57.33
Tamara
I'm kind of jealous too. if or i I know I would be. But it's it's like I had one editor who could do that too. We would smoke in public in New York because otherwise it's migraine time from the smell or the smoke.
00:27:14.55
Tamara
And um then neither of us would smoke normally. But I would smoke around her and I got to resenting it. And she was just always on her high horse about it. Blah, blah, blah. This isn't important. Anyway.
00:27:26.50
Tamara
Now she was bipolar, but she was very proud of it.
00:27:33.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh
00:27:33.59
Tamara
Meanwhile, I was young and stupid and thought you could cure anything with a joke.
00:27:39.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
oh my
00:27:40.51
Tamara
And I was born with a sunny nature and I still have it, but I have to work at it now. Um, but, I did not get it. She would talk about how she grew weed to buy cocaine. And it was the eighties.
00:27:58.11
Tamara
I, Robert and I tried it once and could not, we didn't know we were ADD yet and we couldn't figure out what it smelled nice, but why would anybody pay so much money for this stuff?
00:28:09.50
Tamara
All it does is keep you awake. Anyway, so she's growing weed to, to,
00:28:13.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:28:17.35
Tamara
buy Coke. And she's telling me all these stories about how her daughters ran away and lived with somebody else because they thought she was an awful mother. And I'm just going, is this real? You know?
00:28:27.83
Tamara
And meanwhile, we're writing and this book got bloated and there was a character that I named Emily and I had made up this character and it was a secondary female to the primary and she didn't need to be there.
00:28:42.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
okay
00:28:44.93
Tamara
And that became clearer and clearer as this 200,000 some odd word book came into being.
00:28:49.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
Thank you.
00:28:51.32
Tamara
And so we had an agent. We met an agent at con. He took the book on on the basis of two chapters. and we finish it.
00:29:02.23
Tamara
The agent is overjoyed. And it's out. It's getting offers. And
00:29:14.92
Tamara
She, I'm editing, I'm stuttering because I'm editing myself here. She was told, we took an offer. It was like Simon & Schuster.
00:29:27.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:29:27.93
Tamara
Really nice one. the The bottom hadn't fell out of the market yet, really. and And that was where I met my first editor that I'm still good buddies with.
00:29:39.42
Tamara
And he's a mucky muck at another agency publisher now. She told me, well, we're not going to give him a book that way because he wanted some edits, which happened to be the exact edits I wanted, which was basically we cut out about six characters and unbloat the book because the story was being told from too many points of view.
00:30:02.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:30:03.33
Tamara
And so I'm getting real friendly with this editor. She's getting going out of her mind screaming at me that we're not going to do anything. Meanwhile, I don't scream at anybody. I'm just, I don't do, you know, confrontation at all.
00:30:23.03
Tamara
And, she starts going to the agent and saying, you can't let them and you have to talk to the editor. So the editor is talking and no, you know, <unk> we're going to cut this. We can't publish it.
00:30:39.54
Tamara
It was, it was close to 250,000 words. We can't publish it at that length.
00:30:43.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
00:30:44.33
Tamara
It has to be cut. And the agent can't talk her down. And i at this point, I'm starting to avoid her at all costs.
00:30:53.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
right
00:30:53.88
Tamara
And, So that pretty much became the end of it and that's when the stalking began, because she demanded that we were going to keep the money and take the book back, thus ending the career that was about to start.
00:31:08.28
Tamara
And there was a two-book contract, and I was already writing the second book. And, well, she stalked me for three years after that.
00:31:17.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Holy crap.
00:31:19.08
Tamara
Oh, she was that gent.
00:31:20.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wait, so so what happened to the book? Was the book published?
00:31:25.03
Tamara
Oh, yeah. yeah And um it was called Winter Scream. And there was she was it was a two-book contract. And then there was Trickster, which I wrote alone. And Winter Scream was virtually all me because I cut out all her characters, which was what the editor wanted.
00:31:40.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
Hmm.
00:31:41.79
Tamara
So I didn't feel too bad about that. And there were characters I'd made up. I always tend to overwrite. And this sounds really obnoxious. But the thing was, we got this massive amount of money.
00:31:55.88
Tamara
And she was going to keep the book and cut off the nose despite the face and mine too. And so she started parking outside my house all day long. She started calling and hanging up.
00:32:06.66
Tamara
And that's when I learned that you can develop ESP because I would know if I should have the phone or not.
00:32:11.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:32:12.97
Tamara
And I got really good at it, but it went on for years. She told everybody in the world that I was a monster and that, uh, take I didn't even try to take her off the second book because it was too much of a pain in the butt.
00:32:27.47
Tamara
She got half the money for doing nothing. I wasn't a monster. But she wanted her name changed from the original name that she was using. And I was using Chris Curry at the time. Curry is my maiden name.
00:32:40.83
Tamara
And I'd ask my mom, what would I be if I was a boy? And she said, Chris. So I went by Chris Curry because I didn't want to be known.
00:32:49.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:32:50.20
Tamara
And it was at the time, the only female writers I was around that were doing horror were these little vamp girls. And didn't want to be a vamp girl because I wrote horror.
00:33:02.38
Tamara
And I thought it would be better to be thought of as male if anybody knew. Well, she thought that she would get me by becoming a female and ruining the font on the book was kind of a big font, the names.
00:33:18.07
Tamara
So she asked to be Abigail Abernathy. And the agent actually tried to get the editor to do that. The editor just laughed and said, don't care what the name is, but you're not going to ruin the font. you And she's, her name's not going to be on top.
00:33:33.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah Oh my goodness.
00:33:33.60
Tamara
ah
00:33:36.87
Tamara
Finally, um, she ended up with the name Lisa Dean and Dean was part of her real name at one time. And, um Lisa, my editor and I chose for a friend, Lisa Cantrell, who was writing horror at the time that I used to hang out with.
00:33:55.85
Tamara
So she never knew that, but she was named for a friend.
00:34:01.42
Tamara
And so those two books came and went and i I killed the reprint, you know, they'll never see again. And I wish I didn't have to, but I did. I've come off sounding like a real twat here, but
00:34:14.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, I don't think so at all. um
00:34:17.41
Tamara
I was pushed.
00:34:19.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, I mean, that that just sounds like such a bad experience because when you're working on any project, not just a book, but there's so much emotion that goes into it, not not to mention all the time, you know, all that effort, and to feel sabotaged by someone who's supposed to be your partner, you know, you're building up something together, and that that just seems like an enormous...
00:34:33.84
Tamara
Yeah.
00:34:38.82
Tamara
Yeah.
00:34:43.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, a betrayal, but one that's based purely on pettiness and not getting your own way.
00:34:44.30
Tamara
Yeah.
00:34:49.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
It sounds almost Trumpian.
00:34:49.09
Tamara
yeah ah oh yes and it
00:34:52.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Just this whole, like, well, my feelings were hurt slightly, so I'm going to ruin you now, because, yeah, that's a proportional response.
00:34:57.95
Tamara
yeah that's what it was she thought i was selling out by allowing the book to be printed and to doing the cuts and they were the same ones i wanted to do they were logical they were rational And it was it was really interesting.
00:35:18.59
Tamara
And kind of like,
00:35:19.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
I get it, man. And it's hard. I didn't mean to interrupt. But what what occurs to me is that with the magazine, I find that the people with the least experience in publishing are the ones that get the most upset and offended when you suggest making edits to their work.
00:35:35.65
Tamara
oh, oh boy.
00:35:37.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
that it it's kind of an unprofessional vibe to think that your work is so perfect that it can't possibly be improved.
00:35:46.65
Tamara
It's incredibly unprofessional. And I've had throughout my life, I had some really good editors. And one of them, my second favorite editor, one day told me, you know, change your sentences around a little.
00:36:02.42
Tamara
Don't always start with, the you know, turn them around. And that was some of the best advice I ever got. ah I became very aware of it.
00:36:08.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:36:10.61
Tamara
And Alistair and I do that. you know, oh, look, we've got three sentences in a row that all start the same way. And we fix one. And I was well published by the time I got that piece of advice. You have to listen.
00:36:25.07
Tamara
And you can throw it away if you want to or disagree. But a good editor is worth his or her white and gold.
00:36:32.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I find, honestly, being on Facebook has made me a better writer because I have met so many writers and you just absorb all of this advice and all the things that they talk about.
00:36:39.36
Tamara
Yeah.
00:36:43.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, even if I don't have time to read everybody's books, just hearing them talk about writing makes me think about things that I wouldn't otherwise.
00:36:44.05
Tamara
on
00:36:51.90
Tamara
Exactly. Yeah. It's, it's nice. And when we used to do our podcast, we met everybody I hadn't already known. And it was, and a lot of people we, Alistair got to meet cause i already knew them and it was really cool.
00:37:07.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
You guys interviewed Anne Rice, didn't you?
00:37:10.30
Tamara
Yes, we did with Chris. And um that that was something. Yeah. And Laura Hamilton, that was really something.
00:37:22.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, wow.
00:37:22.45
Tamara
She's the only person who ever could embarrass us.
00:37:27.99
Tamara
But Anne Rice, she she was a wonderful woman. Yeah.
00:37:32.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah So even though you had that experience early on in your career, you eventually did start collaborating with people again. And I just want to say, first of all, I think that's really brave, but I'm...
00:37:44.47
Tamara
Well, not people, just one.
00:37:48.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:37:49.16
Tamara
Alistair and i had the same basic experience with both concluding that we have now met someone who has taught us what insanity truly is. Same exact kind of emotional screaming things.
00:38:02.24
Tamara
And like Susie, the original agent, did.
00:38:03.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
Thank you.
00:38:08.20
Tamara
Called on someone that he had, she had a crush on. She had crushes on everybody. And this, this guy is a very well-known YA author. He got her to meet, meet this guy in a mall, a shopping mall where she couldn't throw a fit, we thought. it and talked to her about why the book should be edited.
00:38:29.57
Tamara
She still threw a fit in front of this guy that she really wanted to screw.
00:38:33.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh my gosh.
00:38:33.47
Tamara
And that, yeah, it was stuff like that.
00:38:34.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:38:36.55
Tamara
And Alistair went through something similar with this kind of behavior. And so it never, both of us swore we'd never,
00:38:49.09
Tamara
collaborate again. and then, but he, he had read my books when he was still a teenager.
00:38:55.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:38:55.61
Tamara
And, um, he wrote to me through, Facebook a couple times and we missed each other. I didn't even notice him. And then he made a comment on something and I answered it. And then all of a sudden it just went nuts. And I went to visit my son in Texas.
00:39:13.32
Tamara
He moved out of there. ah ah And we made a phone call and neither us used the phone. And that was just instant.
00:39:24.90
Tamara
I don't think there's been a day since that we haven't texted. And that was close to 15 years ago now.
00:39:31.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's so great.
00:39:33.17
Tamara
It was, it was a meant to be thing.
00:39:36.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, it seems downright magical because like I've never had a successful collaboration with anyone that except my husband.
00:39:36.30
Tamara
and
00:39:43.55
Tamara
Yeah.
00:39:44.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, can you put into words like how you make it work?
00:39:49.61
Tamara
We're the same. um We write in Google Docs and we still, write in the same file at the same time. Sometimes we watch each other or we come in behind each other and edit, but our styles are so similar.
00:40:07.67
Tamara
You can tell us apart, like when he does his vampires or something, he's a little more hardcore than I am. But overall, we use all the same words in the same styles and we just mesh.
00:40:20.90
Tamara
It's unbelievable. We don't really even understand it. It's
00:40:24.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
So you're not making it work. It's working on its own. I mean, not not to denigrate anyone, but it seems like it seems effortless.
00:40:28.22
Tamara
Yeah. No. we don't It is. It is. And he'll come up and change a word right behind me i or or, you know, or I'm reading something back that he's written, you know, because we read each other's solos to, each you know, we stay in our office together when we're working on solos and then we read each other what we've done for the day.
00:40:52.57
Tamara
i don't know about him, but for me, that keeps the ADD in check because Alistair's going to listen to me. I'd better write and not screw off.
00:41:00.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, well, yeah, the accountability is huge.
00:41:00.63
Tamara
And that's another way controlling Yeah. And I know he's going to listen to it, but he'll make suggestions or I'll make suggestions and then the other person's already doing it.
00:41:13.05
Tamara
And we always know when we're going to text each other, all kinds of weird stuff like that. There's some kind of link that's, beyond anything i've ever experienced it's weird and it used to be people would go get a room you two and we just cracked up because we're way too close for that it's a joke uh for close friends talk about sex really close friends talk about poop yeah well we're beyond the poop you know so it's like ew don't even say that
00:41:27.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:41:44.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now it's interesting because one of the questions I was going to ask you is if you have advice for people that are looking to form a collaboration that is successful. And from talking about this, it sounds like your advice would probably be to find the right person.
00:42:00.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
but That is the key. But is there anything else?
00:42:02.55
Tamara
Yeah. Well, I would say that find someone who's
00:42:13.70
Tamara
similar to you, but who may also have, you know, like we are both nice guys. We don't argue. We've never argued.
00:42:24.61
Tamara
We've made play arguments to amuse other people, but, um,
00:42:27.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
you
00:42:29.82
Tamara
We're the same in nature and we have similar sensibilities about what's right and wrong about, you know, the stories we want to tell or, you know, and just the world in general.
00:42:44.76
Tamara
But it's also nice to have somebody who's like, he's a list maker and he, he keeps us on the straight and narrow. He makes sure, and I'm all, Oh, let's tell a joke.
00:42:56.30
Tamara
And so we balance each other out. So there's balance. You know, if somebody, he tends to be intense, I tend to be goofy.
00:43:05.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Thank you.
00:43:05.36
Tamara
And he won't let me get too goofy and I won't let him get too intense. And while we're working, we say the same, you know, we have the same views. We, we're both character writers that, you know, and together we get our plots right and everything.
00:43:24.76
Tamara
And, That's about it Find somebody you get along with.
00:43:30.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
So basically the same things that make a marriage work make a successful writing collaboration. Being enough alike that you understand each other, but enough different that you make up for, you know, and don't want to use the word shortcomings, but you know.
00:43:35.61
Tamara
Exactly.
00:43:41.07
Tamara
It's good stuff.
00:43:43.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah,
00:43:43.38
Tamara
Well, there are shortcomings and and you help each other that way. And yeah, he, he makes me focus. I make him unfocus. He needs to unfocus now and then he's Alistair.
00:43:54.80
Tamara
Okay.
00:43:55.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
he's yeah he he's pretty intense.
00:43:57.20
Tamara
Yeah, he is. And i don't i don't put up with that shit.
00:44:03.03
Tamara
And he doesn't put up with mine. And so it's like, you know... He goes, okay, let's get back to work. And okay. And it's great. It works. And we want to tell the same stories and the same things.
00:44:14.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
Cool. That is so awesome.
00:44:17.97
Tamara
The sense of humor is the same. or Mine's vaster. he probably doesn't understand my love of things like blazing saddles and slapstick.
00:44:29.70
Tamara
But he understands plenty of the other things that crack me up. But almost everything cracks me up. So, yeah.
00:44:34.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
I find as age I encounter fewer and fewer people with an appreciation for Mel Brooks, and I don't feel particularly good about it, because I think people should still be watching Young Frankenstein on a regular basis.
00:44:47.49
Tamara
oh they should and blazing saddles is the biggest anti-racist movie ever made and it should all be there um my son told me he couldn't let it his son watch the movie yet because he was afraid he'd talk about it at school and get trouble
00:44:53.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, yeah.
00:45:06.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:45:08.22
Tamara
well, maybe we should get together and let him watch it with both of us.
00:45:12.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right?
00:45:14.32
Tamara
But yeah, it's, it's sad. And Brooks is vaudevillian. And I've always loved that. know, he's corny, but still, you know,
00:45:24.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, i'd defy anyone to watch Spaceballs and not laugh. I don't see how it would be possible.
00:45:31.15
Tamara
especially when the little guy comes out of the chest and starts singing. Hello, my baby. Oh my God.
00:45:39.55
Tamara
I love ah Robin Hood men in tights too, especially when he's singing to her and Nelson Eddie's voice behind the, behind the screen and you know the sword is going up in the air.
00:45:48.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:45:48.68
Tamara
That's, you know, the stuff is corny, but I don't care. Yeah.
00:45:54.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and we know now, I mean, there are plenty of people that do humor that on its face seems very juvenile, but as part of an intelligent satirical, I mean, you've got Trey Parker, Matt Stone, ah Seth MacFarlane, you know, people like that.
00:46:05.99
Tamara
Oh, I love that. Yeah. I love them all. Man, I love Beavis and Buttons. South Park.
00:46:13.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh my god. we um, I got Paramount Plus because I wanted ah to watch the new Matlock because, oh my god, Kathy Bates, please.
00:46:15.17
Tamara
and
00:46:17.72
Tamara
Me too.
00:46:22.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
Um, oh, it's dope!
00:46:22.49
Tamara
I haven't seen it yet. Yeah.
00:46:24.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
The first season's still going on, and the main guy in it is Jason Ritter, you know, John Ritter's son.
00:46:29.55
Tamara
Oh, yeah.
00:46:30.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
He is so cute and wonderful. I love that guy. It is it is a really good show.
00:46:33.34
Tamara
Oh, great.
00:46:35.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
Um, But we got it, and then we saw, hey, they made new Beavis and Buttheads. We should see if they're funny.
00:46:41.88
Tamara
Oh.
00:46:42.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
And oh my god.
00:46:43.22
Tamara
Oh, God.
00:46:43.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, because half of it is them, you know, still in high school, and then the other half is them 20 years later.
00:46:46.86
Tamara
Bold.
00:46:49.82
Tamara
Fat.
00:46:50.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
So...
00:46:51.86
Tamara
Bold and everything you can think of. Oh, I love them.
00:46:54.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, well, and and as you would expect, ah Butthead is the one who got heavy, and Beavis is the one who's still, like, skinny and nervous.
00:47:00.53
Tamara
Yeah.
00:47:01.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
But they're both drunk all the time. But, boy, it is it's something.
00:47:04.45
Tamara
It's so funny.
00:47:06.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because it they turned out exactly the way you would expect them to.
00:47:11.09
Tamara
Yeah, they they haven't grown at all. and And then there's the ah South Park specials on Paramount+. plus
00:47:18.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:47:19.22
Tamara
oh Oh, but the the boys married themselves some, what what's the one in Amazon? Not Siri, the other one. like
00:47:29.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
Alexa.
00:47:29.82
Tamara
like I don't use Alexa out loud.
00:47:30.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
alexa
00:47:32.65
Tamara
Well, I turned phone on my phone, so sound down. and And they start talking to their Alexa wives, and the the wives are doing the Alexa thing. I nearly wet myself watching that.
00:47:43.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
but
00:47:44.61
Tamara
Oh, dear God. And Kenny turns out to be brilliant. and I just love that show. But I think I like Beavis and Butthead even better and old Beavis and Butthead the most.
00:47:57.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, well, I mean, I i kind of, when I watch the really old stuff, I remember the time in my life when it first came out, you know, and what I was doing at that time, which was mostly drugs.
00:47:57.55
Tamara
Yeah.
00:48:08.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
00:48:08.76
Tamara
Oh.
00:48:08.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
if I was huge into acid in those days. I loved LSD. I still am a fan of it, but, you know, my lifestyle doesn't really, you know, I don't often have a day where I'm like, all right, well, I've got 15 hours to walk around outside and look at stuff.
00:48:17.78
Tamara
Wow.
00:48:26.40
Tamara
Oh, no. I knew people who used it, but it scared the tar out of me. And when we wrote Mother...
00:48:32.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
for everyone, for sure.
00:48:33.90
Tamara
we we had to We found a friend, a friend of mine who used it in her hippie days, who described it to us because there's a big sequence of acid in there. But we had never, either of us ever tried it and didn't want to.
00:48:47.59
Tamara
But I had a friend and in the 80s who liked it and she'd come to work and tell me, oh, and then the house the doors all got too small and I couldn't move because the ceiling was lower.
00:48:58.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
with
00:48:59.92
Tamara
And I'm thinking, and you like this? You know?
00:49:02.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, well, and it's not always great. I remember one time I took acid, and I actually wrote about this and in a stabbing for Sadie. I put that story in. um I took acid really late.
00:49:16.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
It was like 9 or 10 at night, which for something that lasts 14 hours or so, that's very late.
00:49:18.80
Tamara
ah
00:49:22.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I had to be to work at 4 a.m.
00:49:23.07
Tamara
Yeah.
00:49:24.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
m So I was by no means sober.
00:49:25.65
Tamara
Oh, geez.
00:49:27.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
I was the morning breakfast manager at McDonald's. So I had to come in and turn everything on and open up the store and get it ready for the employees to show up at like 5.30 or 6.
00:49:35.92
Tamara
Oh, no. Uh-huh.
00:49:37.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
And by the time the other manager showed up at 9 a.m., m I was mess. And he asked me what was wrong. And I told him that the eggs were mad at me. at him And he sent me home.
00:49:54.97
Tamara
But he didn't fire you.
00:49:56.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, no. He was, you because that that particular manager was the owner's son, and his whole ethos was about not being a hard ass.
00:49:57.32
Tamara
Good.
00:50:07.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
He wanted to be just the chill whatever, like, you know, okay, so you're a 23-year-old woman, you're working at McDonald's, of course you're partying and doing drugs all weekend.
00:50:10.90
Tamara
Oh.
00:50:17.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
and Just get out of here and go home. He was super cool about it.
00:50:23.01
Tamara
Oh, going to start using that as an excuse.
00:50:26.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
that you're on acid and the eggs are mad at you.
00:50:26.84
Tamara
Is there good excuse as far as I'm concerned.
00:50:30.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes, this inanimate thing doesn't like me anymore, so I'll be leaving.
00:50:37.72
Tamara
o Oh, that's that's a great story.
00:50:41.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right?
00:50:41.38
Tamara
like that.
00:50:41.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
I know a dude once who took acid and he worked actually at a bakery. He worked the overnight shift at a bakery and he called in the middle of the night and he was very worried because he wanted to go outside for a cigarette break But he thought that he controlled the bread supply for the entire world. And that if he stopped for a single minute, that people would starve.
00:51:02.49
Tamara
That's very sweet of him. um
00:51:04.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
So we had to explain. Yeah, he was a really good guy. He was an Eagle Scout, actually. He's the only Eagle Scout I ever met. And I thought that was so impressive. Because I don't know what you know about scouting, but they're not fucking around, those Eagle Scouts, man.
00:51:12.38
Tamara
Wow.
00:51:16.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
They're in it to win it.
00:51:16.09
Tamara
And he really knows why not, right?
00:51:20.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, even though apparently they do acid and smoke cigarettes, they're still up and goes into being an Eagle Scout.
00:51:20.34
Tamara
Wow.
00:51:24.70
Tamara
Yes.
00:51:28.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
it's It's an impressive ordeal for sure.
00:51:31.07
Tamara
Yeah, it's got to be. Can you imagine? It just makes me think of the the Hitler group on Animal House. The Hitler Youth, I mean, in Animal House.
00:51:39.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, the Omegas?
00:51:40.74
Tamara
Niedermeyer. The Omegas, yeah. Yeah, I think that's what they... That must have been.
00:51:47.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's where Kevin Bacon pledged.
00:51:47.97
Tamara
Niedermeyer. Yeah. God. It's so good.
00:51:52.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
the The thank you, sir, may I have another house?
00:51:52.78
Tamara
Yeah.
00:51:55.88
Tamara
Oh God, Kevin Bacon. I read that when I was a teenager in National Lampoon and that that part was actually in the story before it became movie.
00:52:05.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, wow.
00:52:07.47
Tamara
Yeah, that was good.
00:52:08.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
I don't think I've ever actually read an issue of of National Lampoon. I don't think I've ever, like, encountered one.
00:52:13.11
Tamara
That was the
00:52:16.59
Tamara
It's long gone now, but we started buying it when I was a teenager and had it for years. It was the only thing I ever made sure my son never saw. Because it was the only thing that was so disruptive to normal thinking.
00:52:26.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh wow.
00:52:29.99
Tamara
I thought a child shouldn't see this. You know, he had he was in fifth grade reading reading the Shining and stuff. That was fine. But you couldn't you couldn't have the National Lampoons. I locked those up.
00:52:40.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
More so than Mad Magazine? Cause Mad was pretty subversive.
00:52:43.70
Tamara
Oh, Mads. That's okay. I didn't think that was subversive at all. My mother never even, you know, I had that from like fourth grade on.
00:52:52.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice.
00:52:52.55
Tamara
And in fact, that was one of the ways I combated ADD. I just didn't know it yet. Thank God. um Because they would have maybe drugged it out of me.
00:53:03.65
Tamara
I had such a hard time staying awake in elementary school. I would sit there and I would write dirty poems, which were pretty clean because, you know, was little kid.
00:53:14.51
Tamara
But then i would tell myself, I would visualize the latest issue of National Lampoon until I'd be laughing so hard that I would be afraid of getting caught. And that would wake me up because I was terrified of getting caught because I was the little girl who never got in trouble.
00:53:29.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, wow.
00:53:30.32
Tamara
And that's how I stayed. That was a way I combated ADD. I just didn't know it at the time. I was always half asleep because it was so boring at school. So Mad Magazine helped make me what I am today.
00:53:44.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's really interesting because I'm actually thinking back to when they first wanted to test me for ADD because we had a test in Michigan, this test that you would have to take to get your funding and it was called the MEEP.
00:53:50.51
Tamara
Uh-huh.
00:53:56.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Michigan Educational Assessment Program, I think. But they made us take practice tests over and over again.
00:54:01.42
Tamara
Yeah.
00:54:04.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I was so bored. So I just started like filling in all the little bubbles randomly and making designs and stuff. And they're like, hey, we think you have ADD.
00:54:11.16
Tamara
Oh,
00:54:15.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
And my mom wanted me to get tested.
00:54:15.20
Tamara
God.
00:54:16.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
She never wanted me to get tested for anything because anytime anybody looked at us, they were like, okay, wait, who's beating you?
00:54:19.99
Tamara
Uh-huh.
00:54:23.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
So...
00:54:24.74
Tamara
god
00:54:25.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
So yeah, I never got tested.
00:54:25.99
Tamara
huh
00:54:27.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
i found out when I was adult that they're like, oh, you know, you're autistic and you have ADD. And ah I knew about the bipolar disorder because I was, you know, suicidal from a pretty young age.
00:54:39.20
Tamara
oh
00:54:39.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
And so people did look into that, like at school, I got to go to the school counselors and whatnot. But yeah, my mom used to try to put a stop to any of that. um But then
00:54:49.59
Tamara
Wow.
00:54:50.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, I don't want to go into that. You can read A Stabbing for Sadie. You'll find out all about it. um
00:54:56.34
Tamara
Okay. but what oh What did you... autistic. I didn't know much about it until I watched Boston legal. And I was really taken with the one lawyer who had to like hold a pencil in his hand and then he was okay. And that was, uh, Asperger's, which caught my attention because I liked Asperger.
00:55:15.45
Tamara
Um, uh, huh.
00:55:16.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's actually a term that people don't use anymore. Because Asperger was a very specific guy and he was, and I don't know a tremendous amount about this, but he was, you know, into Nazi shit.
00:55:28.20
Tamara
Hmm.
00:55:30.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
He was about like eradicating certain kinds of people and just not, you know, it his whole deal was very problematic.
00:55:31.70
Tamara
Oh, geez.
00:55:34.45
Tamara
Oh, love
00:55:38.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
So and my understanding is that the the term Asperger's is not used in the autism community anymore. They they mostly talk about the spectrum
00:55:45.57
Tamara
it.
00:55:47.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
and how it's like really different and it presents differently for different people.
00:55:52.12
Tamara
Well, that aspect of the spectrum was the only thing that I ever knew anything about. Now, what are you talking about when you say autistic? How does it affect you?
00:56:01.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, for me, it's things like, like I have what they call justice sensitive autism, which means when shit is unfair, I'm like Annie Wilkes in the monologue about the chapter plays.
00:56:09.03
Tamara
Uh-huh.
00:56:15.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, no, this is wrong.
00:56:16.32
Tamara
Uh. Okay.
00:56:18.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, you know, i'm I'm having a pretty hard time because it, it causes intrusive thoughts. um Just general, like,
00:56:28.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
this low key it's it's anger but it's also like fear because it's like something's wrong something's wrong nobody's doing anything about it why is anybody doing anything maybe i should do something i don't know oh what could i do like it's it
00:56:42.67
Tamara
You must be going out of your mind right now.
00:56:44.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I mean, I've adopted some coping strategies, and in case you couldn't tell from all my lighter flicks, I'm high lot of the time. I am smoking weed pretty much constantly.
00:56:56.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
and well, and plus, you know, I'm um working on the end of my trilogy, and once that's done, I'll be able to take a sizable step back from a lot of political stuff.
00:57:08.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, I'll probably still be involved in this socio-political stuff, but as far as paying attention to specific people, um'm gonna as little that as I can when I'm when i'm done with the series.
00:57:09.65
Tamara
Yeah.
00:57:15.76
Tamara
Yeah.
00:57:20.49
Tamara
Yeah, we just stay focused on our books and at night ah watch, you like Midsummer Murders or Poirot whatever, Star Trek, and I don't think about it.
00:57:28.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice. Nice. We just started Discovery. Oh my god, it's so good.
00:57:34.07
Tamara
I've heard that.
00:57:35.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, we're almost done with the first season of of Discovery.
00:57:35.40
Tamara
I'm going to watch that.
00:57:39.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
And um in the beginning, the captain is um Jason Isaacs. and And he's great. He is just wonderful.
00:57:46.80
Tamara
Oh, nice.
00:57:48.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Yeah. So yeah, I get that. I think streaming, I actually stream a lot of the same stuff over and over because it's comforting. But it doesn't seem comforting because it'll be like Dexter or The Sopranos or something.
00:57:57.03
Tamara
Yeah.
00:58:02.24
Tamara
Oh, that's comforting.
00:58:04.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's like, oh yeah, it's that wonderful scene where that guy beats that guy to death.
00:58:04.24
Tamara
I love that.
00:58:07.88
Tamara
Yeah. Robert and I go around saying, it's a jacket from the Sopranos all the time.
00:58:12.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:58:14.49
Tamara
It just kind of stuck. I did not want to watch that show because I don't care for mob stuff. But I was, he drew me into it and I thought I got out. No.
00:58:25.07
Tamara
um And then I ended up doing mobster stuff in Candle Bay.
00:58:27.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Good one.
00:58:31.45
Tamara
I'd never even seen the Godfather of movies. and So Sopranos got me to watch that. And, oh, wonderful.
00:58:37.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sounds like it made you an offer you couldn't refuse.
00:58:40.38
Tamara
That's right. We just watched them again. Poor Fredo. He's such an idiot.
00:58:46.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
with ah
00:58:47.88
Tamara
But they're great. I used to rewatch everything constantly and because I never, the ADD again, I never kept anything. And then came the fall in my head. I would, everything, know, somebody will say, oh, there's this clue we just found to this thing.
00:59:05.90
Tamara
And my brain goes, oh, that's an interesting clue. I think I'll think about that for a while and I'd lose the show. But now I sit there with my phone in my hand and I play spider incessantly or Waduku or anything like that that takes no brains.
00:59:18.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:59:20.01
Tamara
And now I can watch TV and actually get the plot. I never could before. That's another coping strategy.
00:59:27.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I'm familiar with that as well. That's that's a good one. It's interesting.
00:59:31.36
Tamara
Yeah.
00:59:32.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah was ah What you were saying actually made made me think about the difference between The Sopranos and The Godfather in terms of how it handles the mafia, in terms of like the viewer.
00:59:41.61
Tamara
Uh-huh.
00:59:42.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because when you watch The Godfather movies, you are absolutely meant to think that the Corleones are the good guys, and you're supposed to root for them.
00:59:49.11
Tamara
You are. Yeah.
00:59:51.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Whereas Tony Soprano is an asshole from beginning to end. He's not a good guy.
00:59:55.76
Tamara
Oh, God.
00:59:56.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
He's shitty to his family. He's, you know, he's a liar. He's a criminal. He cheats constantly. i mean, he's he's not a good guy, but he's still the focal character.
01:00:02.90
Tamara
Oh, he's horrible.
01:00:07.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's why my husband doesn't like it, because he doesn't want to watch a show where you're expected to root for someone bad.
01:00:13.55
Tamara
Yeah, and I really get that. i Robert likes stuff with negative characters all the way through them. And I like the hero's journey. I'm with your husband on that. ah But, yeah.
01:00:25.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, that's why when he picks what we watch, we watch Star Trek. Because even though there are going to be people that are flawed and you might not agree with all their decisions, there's going to be heroes afoot.
01:00:34.20
Tamara
Yeah.
01:00:35.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
Always.
01:00:37.51
Tamara
Yeah, i like I like to have a hero around. A flawed hero, but a hero. And, you know, like Dexter is a flawed hero. but
01:00:46.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
For a while, I think he kind of loses himself at the end because he has a lot of opportunities for self-reflection and examination. and he kind of...
01:00:55.74
Tamara
I never watched the rest of the series. I gave up Dish at the time and have never not gone back and watched it
01:01:00.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
Dexter is a whole cinematic universe now, because there's something, there's a season that carries on after the original series, and then there's a prequel, and this summer, there's another series that's going to take over after the one that took over, the took up to after the original series.
01:01:03.95
Tamara
and
01:01:18.61
Tamara
Isn't it interesting that he's such a, in a character who has taken off like that. He's a freaking serial killer, but he's a good guy. I, I, I love that.
01:01:30.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, yeah.
01:01:30.49
Tamara
What did that tell us about, you know,
01:01:32.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
and Well, it says an awful lot about us as a people. And it it I think, like it to me, it relates very much to sociopolitics, because I think right now we're in this space where Democrats are reexamining things like, let's always stay calm and use reason.
01:01:36.36
Tamara
and
01:01:40.88
Tamara
Yeah,
01:01:49.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, well, no, they're here to kill us. Let's not stay calm and use reason.
01:01:53.93
Tamara
let's speed this up a little bit. Yeah.
01:01:56.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, all right, I'm not going to say that I'm ready to go full Luigi, but I'm not not saying that.
01:02:02.84
Tamara
Yeah, it's scary out there.
01:02:05.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
It really is. I mean, we we have discussed, seriously discussed keeping a gun in the house.
01:02:11.84
Tamara
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
01:02:13.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
And because after like I was a Kamala ambassador before the election, I was so sure we were going to take Michigan. and
01:02:21.05
Tamara
ah hu
01:02:21.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
and And afterwards, we had planned something for H's birthday and we were going to go hang out near the area where I went to high school, which is pretty redneck-y. It's a city called Hazel Park.
01:02:31.15
Tamara
oh
01:02:32.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
And we got calls. Well, I shouldn't say we. I got messages and calls from people telling me that me and my N-word hunt husband need to stay out of their city and they don't want my liberal pedo ass there. and Because, you know, everybody's a pedo to them if they don't agree.
01:02:49.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
And and it was it was pretty scary.
01:02:50.05
Tamara
Oh, that's right.
01:02:51.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
It was gross. We didn't go. We stayed here. Because the thing is, when it's me, if someone is threatening just me, my attitude is come at me, you coward.
01:03:02.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
I don't, I, because, you know, i unlike you guys, I'm all about the confrontation.
01:03:05.22
Tamara
Yeah.
01:03:07.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, you got some shit to say? Come here. Say it. Say it to my face. But when my husband's involved, I mean, he's a black guy and he's over six feet tall.
01:03:11.84
Tamara
yeah
01:03:17.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
Which is very dangerous in any sort of, you know, like if if someone should decide that he was the aggressor, that could go really bad really quickly.
01:03:20.17
Tamara
Oh, yeah.
01:03:27.01
Tamara
Really bad. Yeah.
01:03:28.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
So i when ah when he's involved, I just want to avoid conflict.
01:03:33.49
Tamara
With good reason.
01:03:35.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, people are nuts.
01:03:35.22
Tamara
Wow.
01:03:37.88
Tamara
Boy. Well, I'm hoping Kamala decides to run for governor of California.
01:03:42.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, Gavin Newsom's about pissed everybody off, so she shouldn't have a difficult time if she wants it.
01:03:42.80
Tamara
I'm glad.
01:03:47.09
Tamara
Yeah. Well, he can't run again. I don't really have a problem with him, but I don't pay that much attention.
01:03:52.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, is that is that what's going on? He can't run again? i was wondering why he suddenly was, you know, talking shit about trans people and stuff.
01:03:57.53
Tamara
Yeah, he won't be able to win. Yeah, he he won't, I don't pay much attention ah to him, but I even voted Republican once for Arnold, but um that was the only time I ever voted a Republican.
01:04:09.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh.
01:04:13.92
Tamara
But he was a good guy, and I i ended up knowing him and his ghost group that I hung out with, a bunch of cops, a couple of them were in his...
01:04:24.90
Tamara
retinue when he was in LA.
01:04:26.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, wow.
01:04:26.70
Tamara
And it was kind of fun, but he, he seemed like a good guy. But, um, that was when he was a gov, the governator, but, oh you know, ew.
01:04:31.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:04:35.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
Not to be confused with Governor of the Body Ventura.
01:04:40.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
01:04:43.97
Tamara
Oh, my little Nazi. Um, am I getting them right? Are we talking about that big blonde guy with the mustache?
01:04:51.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, that's Hulk Hogan.
01:04:51.61
Tamara
I don't keep...
01:04:53.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, Jesse Ventura was legitimately a governor.
01:04:53.30
Tamara
Oh, okay.
01:04:55.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
Hulk Hogan was not.
01:04:56.40
Tamara
oh Oh, okay. i thought Hulk Hogan was too.
01:04:59.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah No, but I wouldn't put it past him. He's big MAGA boy now.
01:05:03.88
Tamara
and Okay, I'm getting them all. Yeah, that's that's that was who my ooh was for. um ah but Just to be clear.
01:05:10.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
like, hey, you can't be mean to Jesse Ventura. He was in The Running Man. He's great. Actually, I don't know anything about him personally.
01:05:15.40
Tamara
Oh, is he?
01:05:17.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
He could be a Republican for all I know, but
01:05:18.90
Tamara
I don't either. I apologize for actually accidentally dissing him. I thought he was hopeful, but I turned him around. I'm mixing everything up.
01:05:25.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
No. Well, it's it's so important that Hulk Hogan be dissed that I think we're going to have to just excuse any accidental friendly fire dissing to make sure that Hulk Hogan gets the disrespect that he is entitled to.
01:05:33.03
Tamara
Yeah. the Yeah, that was friendly fire that I don't know anything about.
01:05:42.43
Tamara
Disrespect. Yeah. Yeah, I agree.
01:05:45.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
a
01:05:50.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's always a drag when ah when a wrestler goes fash or just bows down to the fash, like The Rock, man. Because The Rock, I don't want to go on and on about politics, but The Rock made it a point to not endorse a candidate because he said he didn't want to cause division.
01:06:09.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
And to me...
01:06:10.03
Tamara
His sound face.
01:06:11.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
I find that more offensive than, uh, like if if you're a MAGA guy and that's what you believe is the right thing to do, then by all means, stand up and say that if that's what you think.
01:06:11.82
Tamara
Yeah.
01:06:24.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, I don't agree with you, but okay, that's that's what you are. But if you know that things like treason and sexual assault and espionage are wrong and you don't want to stand up and say so because you think it will cause division, that seems very much to me like he doesn't want to alienate his manga fans so he's not going to say anything.
01:06:39.09
Tamara
a
01:06:47.82
Tamara
that's probably true i don't know a lot about it i just Every morning I read Heather Cox Richardson and I read Robert Reich and and then i shut off my brain and I don't even read all of them mostly because it makes my brain hurt and I don't like to think about it too long.
01:06:57.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:07:04.11
Tamara
I figure you have to know things, but I go into my book live there.
01:07:06.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, there's no change, man. It's like even Borrowist Report is too much news.
01:07:11.24
Tamara
Yeah. Yeah. ah So that's the thing. I don't trust news. Even the, the, they're all about the clicks. Yeah. And it bothers me.
01:07:19.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:07:21.32
Tamara
I like that so many small journalists are coming out and uniting a small journalist. I think that that makes me happy.
01:07:28.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, Bezos buying the Washington Post was a huge blow to journalism.
01:07:32.65
Tamara
Oh, boy.
01:07:32.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
um and And he's done exactly what I expected him to do. You know, squash bad stories about Amazon, play up fascism, talk shit about millennials, like all of that crap. And then all the... that What always happens, all the decent people say, oh, this is terrible. And, you know, they leave.
01:07:53.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
And so then all the decent people are gone.
01:07:57.70
Tamara
I watch crime all the time and at the top of the screen, it says all of a sudden it was advertising the apprentice and I couldn't get that off the screen fast enough.
01:07:57.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
But...
01:08:07.47
Tamara
It just creeps me out.
01:08:07.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
Eww. Dude, that's why we started paying for YouTube. We paid for YouTube the month before the election and because every commercial was about Donald Trump.
01:08:19.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, positive and negative.
01:08:20.00
Tamara
Ugh.
01:08:21.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it's like, I don't want to see that asshole's face on my nice TV.
01:08:27.23
Tamara
we were We normally, at dinnertime, we watch English because they're more polite cooking shows.
01:08:32.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:08:32.88
Tamara
And Tubi with ads is full of English cooking shows.
01:08:36.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:08:36.69
Tamara
And unknown we stopped watching it for quite a while because we didn't want to see any ads, even local ones for politics.
01:08:42.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
01:08:43.80
Tamara
Yeah.
01:08:43.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
theyre Well, they're just, I mean, it's so taxing because they're, like, their whole point is to make you angry, first of all, and it's like, okay, well, I'm angry now.
01:08:49.02
Tamara
Yeah.
01:08:53.04
Tamara
yeah
01:08:53.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Can i have my show back, please?
01:08:55.91
Tamara
Yeah, yeah, it's, yeah, exactly. Or I'd mute it or whatever, but I don't even want to see it. but But now it's stopped again.
01:09:04.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:09:05.11
Tamara
I can watch English cooking shows at dinnertime. But we point and laugh at the fish, you know.
01:09:08.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
So...
01:09:10.82
Tamara
yeah
01:09:11.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
For people who don't know, tell us about the Ravencrest saga.
01:09:18.26
Tamara
Alistair and I both love gothic horror. We... um I would run home from school when I was a little bitty kid to watch Dark Shadows.
01:09:29.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
Hmm-hmm-hmm.
01:09:29.93
Tamara
And so that had quite an influence on me. um
01:09:32.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, I should probably ah interrupt just to tell you that if my name was not Wednesday, it would be Angelique, because that was my mother's other favorite TV show name.
01:09:32.99
Tamara
i wouldn't
01:09:41.85
Tamara
When I met Laura Parker at a book signing, the first thing out of my mouth, I fangirled, I never fangirl.
01:09:49.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
and
01:09:49.70
Tamara
First thing out of my mouth was, I was you for Halloween. And, you know, I have like a dozen books under my belt at this point. I was you for Halloween. She looked at me and she was still beautiful. She had to be pushing 80 by then.
01:10:04.85
Tamara
But yeah, yeah, Angelique was great. And that was the only thing I didn't like in the Tim Burton movie was that bimbo he cast as Angelique. He could have done a lot better, but he was screwing her. What can you say?
01:10:20.20
Tamara
But I'd run home like that, and then I'd run to the library and look up everything there was on the I Ching or whatever they'd introduced me to. And then Alistair and I both in our youth went through ah phase of looking for every, I call them Tessa Tittleberry Towers books.
01:10:28.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right. Yep.
01:10:36.66
Tamara
I learned that from the National Lampoon, the Gothic cover with the girl running from the mansion and looking back the moonlight.
01:10:41.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
right yeah
01:10:42.89
Tamara
Yeah, we both read all of those. So we had all this history together for that stuff. And we knew we should do a series. And so he liked the name Belinda.
01:10:54.35
Tamara
And I said, sure, why not? And then we made up a story about her and it was going to be erotica. There, I have a good story for you.
01:11:05.10
Tamara
When we started it, we thought, well, maybe we'll make up another name for ourselves and we'll write dirty stuff because maybe that'll be a good way to make money. But it's that old ADD thing.
01:11:15.89
Tamara
You can't write something and stick with it if you're not super interested.
01:11:20.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep, yep.
01:11:20.41
Tamara
Because we were delivering Belinda's as, um what's it called, ah you know, serial novel. And every episode, we had to have have it end with sex.
01:11:34.82
Tamara
Boy, did that get old in just a few episodes.
01:11:37.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, I'm sure. I'm terrible, terrible at writing sex scenes.
01:11:38.44
Tamara
And, oh, you do that a lot, don't you? Or you did.
01:11:44.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, i I mean, I'm a sex writer, but my sex writing is not fiction. Like when I do sex writing, I'm writing informational articles or I'm reviewing sex toys.
01:11:51.95
Tamara
oh
01:11:53.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's not in in a lot of people make that assumption because if I were writing like romance, I would say romance writer because saying you're a sex writer makes, you know, like I think of it like journalistically, like a sports writer or a food writer.
01:12:00.60
Tamara
Right.
01:12:03.35
Tamara
I think it's more.
01:12:06.38
Tamara
Yeah. Yeah. ah This was, we turned it back around really fast. wait it's a The second episode, though, we finally have cleaned it up to the point where it's not really erotica anymore.
01:12:20.41
Tamara
But we got a lot of interest in that. But we didn't have any interest, so it became a full out-and-out, you know, it's got romance. It's a gothic. But it's pure gothic horror, and we have so much fun with it.
01:12:35.45
Tamara
There's a lot of humor in it, and there's every kind of paranormal thing you could imagine in it. And there's still... we're going We're going to introduce a character to a butt plug very soon.
01:12:48.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
oh my
01:12:48.55
Tamara
going to let Alistair write that scene. We've done it before in Ravencrow... Our witch, Mrs. Heller, she's really bad. She likes to do things like that to people. And... But it's not very sexy. It's just very aggressive.
01:13:02.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh no, consent. Consent is everything.
01:13:05.00
Tamara
Yeah.
01:13:05.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
I write about it so much.
01:13:07.73
Tamara
yeah Well, there's no consent. hit Well, he will consent because he's an old drunk. But... um It's, it's overall, it's, it's not real sexy anymore. It's, we're having fun growing Belinda from, she has some natural talents and abilities that she doesn't, right now she's at a place where she does not want these abilities and she wants to leave and,
01:13:32.24
Tamara
and nobody wants her to leave, blah, blah, blah. And there's all these ghosts running around. They're dealing with one that plays and or a pipe organ. And every time we write the word organ, we giggle for a second.
01:13:43.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
you
01:13:44.24
Tamara
And it's the bride of Ravencrest right now. And we've we've hinted at her from the very beginning. And now she's she's having her moment. And it's a lot of fun.
01:13:55.89
Tamara
It really is. I never liked, I don't even like to read series, but now I know that to sell books, you have to write series. So trying to do that.
01:14:04.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
what what What number is coming up?
01:14:05.12
Tamara
And,
01:14:07.53
Tamara
Well, this one will be number five.
01:14:09.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh my goodness.
01:14:10.03
Tamara
And Ravencrest is easy to write as a series because there's so many characters and there's so many places we can go. The last one, we even had Kirk and Spot zap in for a second.
01:14:21.16
Tamara
And it was a little freaky.
01:14:23.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, but there's that joke that people do where they dress up like Star Trek and go to the Renaissance Fair.
01:14:30.08
Tamara
how fun!
01:14:30.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
but
01:14:30.75
Tamara
I would do that.
01:14:31.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah And they're like telling people not to break the Prime Directive and stuff.
01:14:33.34
Tamara
Yeah.
01:14:37.59
Tamara
Oh, that's totally me. I wouldn't that.
01:14:39.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
who
01:14:40.78
Tamara
Wow. I've never even heard of that.
01:14:42.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, you gotta do it.
01:14:43.01
Tamara
Now, Melinda sees Kirk and Spock, but she really sees them. But we don't know really what's going on there. There's a lot of magic with a K going on in that book.
01:14:52.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. All right.
01:14:53.65
Tamara
In fact, that was Elementals doing. I like Elementals. Elementals are fun.
01:14:59.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right on.
01:15:00.46
Tamara
Yeah. Yeah.
01:15:01.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now, in some of your other fiction, I am aware that you've sort of exacted revenge on your dad. um And that's, you know, like I said, that's something and I've done as well.
01:15:10.62
Tamara
Well,
01:15:13.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
So i would love to hear more
01:15:16.20
Tamara
um the first time it was completely subconscious until the book was almost over with. And it was it's it's bad things. It's one of my favorite novels.
01:15:28.57
Tamara
And it's about twin brothers. And our protagonist is Hole. And his brother was legless, like Johnny Eck, that you'd know from um Freak's.
01:15:39.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, yep.
01:15:40.65
Tamara
old movie who was a really accomplished guy he was an orchestra leader everybody loved him but he was without legs and I really thought circus freak stuff was fascinating I still do but no I know about him but I've never read
01:15:52.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh yeah, have you read the bio of Daisy and Violet Hilton?
01:15:59.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, there's a great bio that came out. I actually read it while I was doing research to write my zombie book, The Finster Effect, because I wanted to have conjoined twins in it, because I had...
01:16:06.84
Tamara
oh
01:16:09.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know, a really terrifying idea where one dies and the other does not.
01:16:10.88
Tamara
Yeah.
01:16:13.98
Tamara
Ooh, that is nasty.
01:16:14.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
so
01:16:15.64
Tamara
Yeah.
01:16:16.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
Those two in real life died like three days apart.
01:16:20.03
Tamara
They'd pretty much have to, wouldn't they?
01:16:22.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:16:22.45
Tamara
Yeah.
01:16:22.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, is it's ah pretty disturbing. but But I totally interrupted you to interject that. Please.
01:16:27.41
Tamara
Oh, well, um
01:16:31.35
Tamara
Ricky was Rick or Ricky, depending on if it was childhood or current time, is the hero. And Robin was the one who
01:16:41.03
Tamara
something happened. It's a, it's a changeling myth story, but he became very evil. And ah the whole idea was to write a story about a handicapped person who was not a good person at all.
01:16:48.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:16:53.12
Tamara
And, um, so what was the point? Oh, what happened is toward the end of the book, I had referred to my father,
01:17:05.59
Tamara
all the time as, and he died when I was 16, thank heaven, um as a group, an emotionally crippled little man. i Remember this was decades ago.
01:17:17.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
okay
01:17:17.85
Tamara
And I meant emotionally, but I'd say he was a crippled little man. He was five feet five. He was, he had short man syndrome like crazy. And um I used the term in the book.
01:17:28.48
Tamara
I was about 50 pages from the end and things were coming to a head.
01:17:31.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
Whoops.
01:17:33.33
Tamara
And he, called his brother an emotionally crippled little man. And all of a sudden I went, Oh Christ, I've been writing about my father.
01:17:42.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
what
01:17:42.49
Tamara
the was a practical joker, all kinds of horrible things. I hate practical jokes because of him. And it stopped me cold. I couldn't, I had, I had to carpentalize, reread the book, everything to get that out of my head, to finish the book the way it was supposed to be done, because I didn't want my father having any anything to do with that.
01:18:04.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh.
01:18:06.23
Tamara
And then, so that was one. And the other one is in the forgotten. And I, this I did on purpose. Um, when I was a kid, It was forbidden to mention my brother's older my father's older brother, who had died decades and decades and decades before I was born, in a hunting accident.
01:18:22.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
oh
01:18:28.43
Tamara
His name was Milo. Now, when i was we were fairly early married, we got a kitten that we named Baby Milo, after the Milo in the um Planet of the Apes movie.
01:18:43.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:18:43.97
Tamara
And my mother laughed and said, did you do that on purpose? And I, huh? And she told me that, remember your father didn't like anybody to talk about Milo.
01:18:54.78
Tamara
he He died. And so I didn't know much about that. He was a ah ah fighter a fighter pilot in the war, a big war.
01:19:06.39
Tamara
And he came home. He was very heroic and he was tall. He came home with his bride and all his medals. And he and my father, who was four years younger and short, um went hunting together in West Virginia.
01:19:18.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
Thank you.
01:19:21.56
Tamara
And only my father came back. And evidently, story was that Milo had accidentally shot himself with a shotgun when he went through a fence.
01:19:34.98
Tamara
and And was gut shot. He died. my My brother did some research and it I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure my father pulled one of his practical jokes and it probably went off.
01:19:50.74
Tamara
And he probably killed him by accident. I used that in the book. And that was that was the only time I ever did anything on purpose. It was the least bit biographical in a way, maybe, be sort of, kind of.
01:20:04.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
01:20:04.74
Tamara
But i I think that was why we couldn't say his name and my father ran away from home at age 16.
01:20:12.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
Holy shit.
01:20:12.24
Tamara
ah Right after that happened. So what a horrible thing to have on your conference, huh?
01:20:14.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
And he did learn his lesson about practical jokes.
01:20:18.98
Tamara
Yeah. He still played practical jokes, though, but not quite that bad.
01:20:24.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
My gosh. That's...
01:20:26.08
Tamara
But I don't know. it It might not be true, but that's what I think.
01:20:28.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, as you were telling the story, I, cause you know, hunting accident is often code for murdered in the woods or, you know, I mean, I always think of Ed Gein because Ed Gein went hunting with his dad and, you know, the dad was mysteriously shot.
01:20:36.37
Tamara
Yeah. Yeah.
01:20:41.94
Tamara
Oh, yeah.
01:20:45.71
Tamara
That's right.
01:20:45.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
Um, and yeah. Yeah.
01:20:48.34
Tamara
I don't think at age 16 it would have been done on purpose or maybe it was done in a fit of peak or whatever.
01:20:53.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
well Based on what you've said, I think a practical joke gonna rise is much more reasonable to, you know, if we're gonna assume.
01:20:54.06
Tamara
ah me come
01:21:00.53
Tamara
That's what I think too.
01:21:03.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Wow.
01:21:03.66
Tamara
Yeah. Yeah. That's my guess. But anyway, I use that in the book, but I can't say more than that without giving away a big spoiler.
01:21:11.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure, sure.
01:21:12.04
Tamara
Yeah.
01:21:13.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, we don't want that. um Let me ask you, though, what do you think was the lasting impact of your relationship with your father?
01:21:24.03
Tamara
I don't cry. I'm very good in emergencies. You want me there if something goes wrong. I'm cool as a cucumber. um If I feel like crying, I laugh.
01:21:38.89
Tamara
And I'm very easily embarrassed.
01:21:43.60
Tamara
But I found that being sort of self-deprecating, you know, going ahead and allowing myself to make self-deprecating jokes keeps that away.
01:21:52.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:21:55.90
Tamara
But, yeah, I... My editor took me to see LaMiz in New York. I'm sitting in this sea of, ah somehow we got in a sea of Italian men.
01:22:06.47
Tamara
There were not even anyone. They're all sitting around me crying at the scenes in LaMiz. And I'm sitting there keeping my head tilted back and touching the tips of my eyes so that I don't let any tears loose because I'm too humiliated to even think that I might cry at something you're supposed to cry at.
01:22:22.96
Tamara
I kind of take that. And it never goes away. And what's that movie, that Costner movie with the baseball field?
01:22:32.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
Field of Dreams.
01:22:33.04
Tamara
him Yeah, that one will get me to the point where Robert's sitting there sobbing and I have to get up and go out of the room so that my eyes don't get wet. That's the biggest lasting impact I know.
01:22:45.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow, that's a drag, man.
01:22:47.24
Tamara
It's annoying.
01:22:48.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
That is that is a real fucking drag.
01:22:51.99
Tamara
Yeah, but at least I don't get sinus headaches from crying. But I do laugh my ass off at a lot of things. And i but I hated him from the time I was a little kid. we i Oh, you know what? I did put something into Mother that Alistair and I did together.
01:23:09.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, I read the hell out of that book, so I need to hear this.
01:23:09.72
Tamara
This is how we... Well... You know when mother takes the daughter Claire's soiled bloods blood-stained pants, underwear, and puts them all over the house?
01:23:26.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:23:27.93
Tamara
Yeah, my father did that to me.
01:23:29.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
Holy shit.
01:23:31.50
Tamara
i my mom and I would go to San Francisco every year. And that year i was so body, kind ah my body shame was through the roof always. And my mother would put like a box of Kotex.
01:23:43.46
Tamara
I was probably going to the sixth grade in the closet and not even ask me about it.
01:23:46.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
Thank you.
01:23:49.56
Tamara
That's she understood. And she knew, ah you know God only knows what happened to make me so humiliated about that. I don't know. Or maybe I was born that way. But anyway, my father would always go in my room.
01:24:01.32
Tamara
destroy all my writing. i wrote Star Trek stories and all kinds of shit and, uh, take any books he disapproved of and go through my drawers. Well, I had a bunch that year. it was when it got me and I had a bunch of blood stained underwear hidden in my drawers, desk drawers.
01:24:18.40
Tamara
And, um, my grandmother broke her hip and my mother had to stay up there past Easter vacation. So she called my father to come and get me. It was one of the only times I remember ever getting emotional. I did not want to go.
01:24:33.59
Tamara
i remember my aunt comforting me and she was a tough old bird, you know, army wife and all that. And I wasn't real embarrassed around her. It was weird, but it was the only time i ever cried.
01:24:46.15
Tamara
And, um, he drove me home.
01:24:47.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Thank you.
01:24:48.59
Tamara
We didn't speak the whole way. um, He stayed outside when I went in the house and I found bleached underwear in every room, laid everywhere.
01:25:00.69
Tamara
There must have been 20 pair. And i gathered them all up and shoved them in my room. And then he came in the house. He never said a word, but I didn't like him before that.
01:25:12.28
Tamara
But at that point it became pure hatred. And the only reason i was nice to him was for my mother's sake, because she had no idea. And when he died, i pretended to be sad because I didn't want my mother to know I wasn't.
01:25:28.71
Tamara
And that's the story of my father and how much I hated him. How dare he do that to a child?
01:25:36.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, that's...
01:25:36.60
Tamara
That ugliest.
01:25:37.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
I don't even know what to say. that That's horrific.
01:25:41.00
Tamara
Yeah, it was incredibly ugly.
01:25:42.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
it's It's so deliberate. I mean, that is such an intentional cruelty that, da yeah, it's it's that's staggering.
01:25:47.32
Tamara
Yeah.
01:25:51.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because it's just one of those, how do you think you're the good guy?
01:25:51.80
Tamara
Yeah.
01:25:56.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
How do you think you're an okay person after you do something like that? I will never understand how people like that live with themselves.
01:26:02.41
Tamara
You know, he, I don't know. i really don't know. I think he was humiliated in ways. I think he had a terrible, but it's no excuse. I just think that about him.
01:26:12.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, no, because when you're being humiliated, you know that it hurts. It's like punching, you know, and people say, oh, we have to look we have to take sensitivity training so we know not to punch people.
01:26:17.19
Tamara
Yes.
01:26:22.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, if you've ever been punched, you know it hurts. And so you know not to do it because you're hurting people.
01:26:26.28
Tamara
Yeah.
01:26:29.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
If you can't make that leap, you need to not be around people.
01:26:29.19
Tamara
Right.
01:26:32.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
You certainly shouldn't be parenting anyone.
01:26:33.05
Tamara
I'm sure. No. And he, he, oh, that just, that was, that was it. And there was no more,
01:26:44.50
Tamara
My mother told me that I stopped calling him dad or daddy when I was, before I was three. It was somewhere in my second year, around two and a half.
01:26:52.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Thank you.
01:26:53.04
Tamara
She never knew why. I don't know why either. But um I stopped calling him anything, and I never could. I still, when I talk to my brother anything, I say our father. I can't bring the words out.
01:27:06.29
Tamara
Cat daddy is the closest thing I'll say to Alistair Robert. And we're talking about them, not him. But yeah, it's unbelievable cruelty. i mean, if you have kids, you're probably going to screw them up one way or another, but that was what you said, intentional.
01:27:25.95
Tamara
And for somebody who is so shy, body conscious, Oh boy. Yeah. So that that's probably my ultimate story.
01:27:37.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
Thank you.
01:27:38.03
Tamara
And I did find out my sister-in-law asked me to talk to my brother once and, um, long time ago now, and she's passed, but I found out that he almost committed suicide because of my father coming down on him and it's, and he's tried to apologize for me it for running off and joining the army when I was real little. I, geez, you were a teenager. That's okay.
01:28:04.43
Tamara
And, and the only one who liked my father evidently was my sister who also has little man syndrome and I don't get along with her, but, um, it's, uh, huh.
01:28:14.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. No, I get that. I have i have ah two, like, half-brothers that I grew up with, and one of them is still real close with my abuser, and the other one is kind of the get-along guy, you know, he'll pop by for dinner on Thanksgiving or whatever, but...
01:28:33.33
Tamara
Yeah. Isn't it funny how people react differently?
01:28:37.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, yeah, I went no contact when I was 23, 24, right around there. And just was just out.
01:28:43.34
Tamara
That's wise.
01:28:45.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, and I had to cut off from the whole family because my mom was a narcissist. So as soon as I was not under her control, she called everyone she could think of to tell them a bunch of crazy gaslighting shit about me.
01:28:50.66
Tamara
o
01:28:58.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like,
01:28:58.55
Tamara
Always.
01:28:59.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, she told everybody I was a drug addict and that if I called, I was calling to ask for money and I was probably in jail.
01:28:59.43
Tamara
In our
01:29:05.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I mean, i smoked weed and I did acid, but it's, i mean, she made it sound like I was strung out on heroin or something. It was ah a little odd.
01:29:13.28
Tamara
Oh, gee. What a horrible creature.
01:29:15.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
But, well, yeah, but I mean, she was always one of those, like, you see what I got to put up with while she made up outrageous stories, you know, that sort of narcissistic gaslighting thing.
01:29:22.03
Tamara
It's all about her. Yeah.
01:29:26.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
But um now, if we can actually move on to some of your solo stuff, I was looking into the old wives tale books and they, I love the concept.
01:29:26.48
Tamara
Oh, that's awful.
01:29:32.47
Tamara
sure
01:29:36.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
That sounds fascinating. How is that going?
01:29:39.87
Tamara
it's it's going good i'm working on the third one and the first one it's actually the same character sheriff tully he he was introduced in eternity years and years ago and that's a town where everything's weird it's up in the mountains it's based on the mount shasta lore here in california and it's a jack the ripper story and um
01:29:50.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh,
01:30:01.32
Tamara
I moved him down to the California coast, central coast, which I really like. And now he's in um a town called Fort Charles, which is, if you turn it around, you get Charles Fort, which, you know, the damned book about fog, uh, frogs falling from the sky, things like that.
01:30:17.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
oh okay
01:30:21.90
Tamara
That's the guy that wrote that stuff. Um, And so now he's down there at this town. And so I can have anything I want happen there because everything happens there. So I can do a series without having to stick to exactly the same thing every time. And I've got my sheriff that I like there.
01:30:38.59
Tamara
And um so Selkie Wives is the second. Oh, Tully shows up in Darling Girls, our collaboration that brings Candle Bay, my vampires, and his crimson corset vampires together.
01:30:53.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, okay.
01:30:54.32
Tamara
And Tully is in that too.
01:30:56.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow. Yep.
01:30:57.80
Tamara
And then Tully moves to the coast and becomes sheriff down there. And at first the book was called Old Wives Tales. And I realized, boy, that's a really good series title.
01:31:10.82
Tamara
So it became Selkie Wives.
01:31:10.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know
01:31:12.29
Tamara
And that has mostly some mermaid stories and some... um It turned to Lovecraftian. And I don't even care for Lovecraft. um I was, there's a, there's a sea monster thingy in it.
01:31:28.21
Tamara
And I was researching um National Geographic channel and came across Nan Madal, which is, it turned out that's where Lovecraft put Cthulhu.
01:31:29.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
Thank you.
01:31:38.64
Tamara
And this, I didn't know that at the time. And I started reading and, oh okay, well, it's good enough for him. And I just sort of played off that. And so that was the first book. And now I'm working on it again on Spiral Sea. And this is about this has a pirate, a ghost ship.
01:31:59.29
Tamara
It's a lot more complicated than that. But it's, it's, I'm using solar maximums, although I never use the word where it has sort of this weird lighting thing and things come up out of the ocean there. And I'm also, I've also got a serial killer. I love serial killers called Nature Boy at work. He doesn't like poachers.
01:32:19.95
Tamara
And there's a whole lot more to that too. And so that's this book. And eventually i want Tully to come up against Jack the Ripper again. That was eternity.
01:32:31.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
nice
01:32:32.87
Tamara
So that's, that's what I'm doing now.
01:32:36.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
okay so when you are writing a series is there a plan in place from the beginning and like do you have an end for the series in mind or is it just sort of a
01:32:36.62
Tamara
And it's fun.
01:32:50.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
let's explore this character, then this one, then this one, so maybe there's not an ending at all planned. Like, I don't...
01:32:56.66
Tamara
Ravenpest, we know, will probably be about seven books. It could go further. ah We know where we know it has an ending.
01:33:06.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:33:06.62
Tamara
But this is it's really hard to advertise books when they're not a series. This needs a series. Well, I love Tully. He's my favorite sheriff I ever created.
01:33:19.26
Tamara
Let's let him keep being in the middle of things. I always like cops. I'm always attracted to the the sheriff who doesn't. He's too mature to be a yeah yes man.
01:33:30.16
Tamara
He follows his heart rather than the law, that kind of thing.
01:33:32.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. All right. all right
01:33:34.80
Tamara
And. So I just put him in a situation. And as far as I know, there's no ending unless I move him again. But I don't know why. I like going to the coast.
01:33:46.64
Tamara
That's a great excuse to research, you know. And i there are threads that will continue, long storylines that will take a long time to, you know, put together.
01:34:02.86
Tamara
But no, I have no idea where this will go.
01:34:07.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
and okay
01:34:07.75
Tamara
But sometimes you do and sometimes you don't. And I do pull in characters from other books like David Masters from Haunted and ah other ones that you see now and then. Costaletti, you've seen him in Alistair's books, solo books too.
01:34:25.96
Tamara
I created him for Candle Bay. He's kind of a voice. He's a DJ. And... Alistair was the one who put him into Darling Girls and gave him an actual physical form and everything.
01:34:38.44
Tamara
And we do that. So we kind of have a Thorn and Cross universe that can be used by Thorn or Cross or Together. and that's kind of, I always think of that as a series because our places are series, whether it's solo or or together.
01:34:47.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. Okay.
01:34:55.49
Tamara
And like Crimson Cove is here. um We went there together. but he'd started writing about it before he got there. It's it's right near where Lost Boys takes place up in the mountains.
01:35:08.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
okay
01:35:08.98
Tamara
And it's, and then we we visited that. That was a lot of fun. But all this stuff we do together. And so I don't know how that answers your question, but
01:35:21.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, it does. It seems like there's a variance.
01:35:25.71
Tamara
yeah, there is. i don't like to be, have to plan something too far in advance because that's boring. That's why, i like when I i don't even read series, i I read like the first three true blood books and then I got bored, even though I really like them, but I want to read something different.
01:35:45.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:35:46.00
Tamara
So I don't really want to write the same thing over and over, but if I can write in the series without having to write the same thing over and over, I like that.
01:35:54.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
I see. i see.
01:35:57.48
Tamara
I guess it's not very good answer, but.
01:35:57.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
So,
01:36:00.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
well, I'm not actually grading you, so take solace in that. um
01:36:04.71
Tamara
Oh, good. I'm bad with grades. I get test.
01:36:08.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
So for people that are unfamiliar with your work, where would you say is the best place to start?
01:36:15.38
Tamara
Um, well, the big seller has always been haunted and that's, that was when I switched publishers and stopped calling myself Chris Curry. Cause I had to stop doing that. I hated that name anyway.
01:36:33.39
Tamara
Wasn't me. um I had always wanted to write a haunted house novel because I love haunted houses more than life itself. I love the afterlife. po
01:36:43.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice.
01:36:44.28
Tamara
And this is my ode to Hill house, hell house, ghost and Mrs. Muir, you name it, it's in there. And, i put Because I could, i put in everything, every cliche i could think of. And then my editor, who was just starting out at the other publisher, said, make sure and put evil dolls in because that'll guarantee they'll let me buy it.
01:37:08.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
and
01:37:09.66
Tamara
So there are also evil dolls. And I remember groaning, but they turned out pretty cool. And the characters... David Masters, the horror writer who investigates things, and his daughter, they have no idea they're in a comedy.
01:37:25.46
Tamara
None whatsoever. It's very serious. And the rest of the characters are very serious too. But I was sitting back there giggling and scratching and just just having the best time in the world.
01:37:37.05
Tamara
And um if you like haunted houses, that's probably a good spot. But otherwise, books like... if you like it, a little science fiction-y. Thunder Road has a cowboy element, modern day, and UFOs.
01:37:56.59
Tamara
ah The Forgotten has elf waves, which are real things that hit on science. But it's it's about a whole haunted town. And...
01:38:11.91
Tamara
I don't know. You could go for Ravencrest if you want to, you know, if you like that kind of thing. They're all okay. I mean, you know, the sorority is a total takeoff on Arthurian legend and it's really, really silly.
01:38:18.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
but
01:38:25.96
Tamara
Um, so probably not that one, but I had fun. um
01:38:30.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, I think that that gives us a lot of options. Nice.
01:38:34.83
Tamara
Yeah, you can pretty much go anywhere. Moonfall is the other big, that's a witchcraft one, and that one's a big seller. And I don't know why, but I enjoyed it.
01:38:45.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:38:45.82
Tamara
I go to Moonfall every year to pick apples, but it's really called Oak Glen. It's an hour from my house.
01:38:50.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, okay.
01:38:53.09
Tamara
And it really does have satanic problems, or at least it used to.
01:38:57.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Maybe it's cleared up.
01:38:59.12
Tamara
Maybe. I don't know. There are some Christians up there, so there's probably devil worshipers, too.
01:39:05.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, that's not real.
01:39:06.14
Tamara
Yeah, I don't know about these things.
01:39:07.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
i
01:39:07.95
Tamara
oh
01:39:11.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, no, people at Church of Satan are jerks, but I don't think they actually worship the devil. And I know the people at Satanic don't, because that's where I am. So.
01:39:20.78
Tamara
Yeah, the Church of Satan people that I know, um much prefer to the idiots who claim they're Satanists because they're very kind animals, and that's all I really care about.
01:39:27.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
01:39:30.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:39:30.97
Tamara
Yeah, so that's okay.
01:39:32.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
Cool.
01:39:33.37
Tamara
If you think you don't believe in God, but you believe in the devil, well, that's your prerogative.
01:39:38.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, that's kind of, and that that that doesn't really make sense to me that you'd believe in one and not the other.
01:39:39.36
Tamara
Just be kind animals.
01:39:44.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
i mean, most, the at the TST, there are some pagans there, but for the most part, it's it's just humanist.
01:39:45.05
Tamara
No, no.
01:39:50.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's just, let's be smart and kind and not suck.
01:39:51.32
Tamara
Yeah.
01:39:55.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
Let's do that.
01:39:55.53
Tamara
but it What is the DST you said?
01:39:57.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
TST, the Satanic Temple.
01:39:57.70
Tamara
Tell me about that.
01:40:00.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
which is the more political of the- because there are two main groups of quote-unquote Satanists in this country anyway.
01:40:00.20
Tamara
Oh, okay.
01:40:07.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
There's Church of Satan, COS.
01:40:09.45
Tamara
Is that the LeVay people?
01:40:10.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
01:40:10.93
Tamara
are
01:40:11.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, I mean, that's not- I guess LeVay was initially involved in Church of Satan. It is called like LeVayan Satanism. um
01:40:20.43
Tamara
Okay.
01:40:20.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
LeVay is not involved in Satanic Temple.
01:40:24.03
Tamara
Oh, okay.
01:40:24.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, the guy there, um like the the top guy, is a dude named Lucian Greaves. And that's not his real name. He has to like a couple of aliases just to his family save.
01:40:33.34
Tamara
That's a great name. Yeah.
01:40:36.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
But it is a more sociopolitical organization because their deal...
01:40:37.05
Tamara
That's probably black.
01:40:40.84
Tamara
Uh-huh.
01:40:41.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
really is when groups like christian groups say hey we're gonna do jesus stuff at the town hall or in schools or whatever satanic temple people would show up and say oh great we're doing religious things so where where do where do we put the satan stuff and then they say oh no no i guess we're not really doing that but these days that's not as effective because now people are much more out loud and proud about saying no jesus just jesus and
01:40:48.50
Tamara
Uh-huh.
01:41:10.29
Tamara
um
01:41:11.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
based on what I've read about Jesus, he probably wouldn't be down with that. But, you know, that's that's not a thing anymore.
01:41:16.23
Tamara
No.
01:41:18.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
There's a whole swath of quote-unquote Christians that think that Christ is some, like, hippie loser that they don't want to follow. So, nah.
01:41:26.90
Tamara
Yeah, isn't that weird? Some Jehovah's Witnesses left a flyer on the door yesterday and
01:41:32.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'm sorry.
01:41:33.47
Tamara
Oh, no, no.
01:41:33.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
01:41:35.09
Tamara
Oh, yeah. Oh, I get it. I get it. and And I was really surprised. I looked at it, and, know, I thought it was a gas They wanted to inspect the meter, and I was really surprised to see this kind of swarthy-looking guy on it.
01:41:46.56
Tamara
And I realized, oh, Jesus has gotten some skin color now.
01:41:50.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
well
01:41:50.16
Tamara
His hair is a little shorter. He still has that same batific face, you know, his eyes that look like, oh, yeah, I'd screw you. But theyve they've actually let him get a little bit more Middle Eastern.
01:42:02.64
Tamara
The Jehovah's Witnesses, think of that.
01:42:04.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
will let's see that's wild because i know that in the 70s when the mormons weren't really able to recruit they decide well i mean i imagine you know what happened but they uh
01:42:12.36
Tamara
yeah
01:42:16.91
Tamara
I come from a long line of my mother moved away from Utah to get rid of them.
01:42:20.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, okay. So you know that it was like 1975 and they decided that God said, yes, Black people do have souls and can be part of the church. Isn't that fun? 1975.
01:42:28.90
Tamara
think it's that.
01:42:31.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
seventy five So within my lifetime. That is terrifying.
01:42:34.60
Tamara
Yes. Is it?
01:42:36.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
Terrifying.
01:42:36.44
Tamara
It is.
01:42:37.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
So maybe that's what Jehovah's Witnesses are doing now. Well, because...
01:42:40.41
Tamara
I think I have them next door. Well, they used to be Jehovah's Witnesses, but he keeps changing. And now he thinks there might be multiple gods. It's fascinating. The only thing he doesn't think is that there is no God, which is, you know, more my speed is.
01:42:53.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
I find the idea of a polytheistic Jehovah's Witness to be utterly fascinating.
01:42:58.94
Tamara
Yeah, I think he's given up the Jehovah's Witness part because he wants to talk about, oh there's all these. And he researches constantly.
01:43:04.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
wants a birthday party. um
01:43:06.32
Tamara
this Yeah, it's fascinating. And I said, but you don't believe there's no God or like, you know, I'm kind of Buddhistic in my thoughts, I guess is a better way of saying it, because I won't say I'm an atheist because they get out carried away too.
01:43:19.43
Tamara
And, you know, the Buddhist idea is, no, there's no God there. You've got to have gods. And oh multiple, yes. But he he was Jehovah's for a long time.
01:43:32.71
Tamara
And he gave up Catholicism when he married his Jehovah's Witness wife.
01:43:36.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
wow that's an interesting i mean that they're so different i mean i know it's the same god and everything but jehovah's witnesses are so austere like as a as a faith and then you get the catholic it's like well we're gonna play everything in gold and we're gonna have the best music you've ever heard
01:43:37.18
Tamara
And it's fascinating.
01:43:44.04
Tamara
Yeah.
01:43:46.78
Tamara
Yes, it's so nice to do that.
01:43:52.61
Tamara
yeah
01:43:57.98
Tamara
And way too much incense.
01:44:00.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
know exactly the right amount of incense come on now and reasonable simple people can disagree but yeah incense i think the nagchampa was one of my favorite things about catholicism that and the architecture
01:44:00.34
Tamara
Oh, yeah.
01:44:03.43
Tamara
Oh, I didn't have any incense. I'm sorry. It's just... Oh, God.
01:44:11.47
Tamara
Oh, God.
01:44:14.50
Tamara
I've had a lifelong hate with fragrances, smoke and anything with that. It all gives me a migraine. Well, Zyrtec makes it a a low headache now, but yeah, I don't do smells.
01:44:21.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
darn i see
01:44:27.80
Tamara
I'm a smellist.
01:44:30.72
Tamara
But yeah, it's fascinating.
01:44:31.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
but We're actually um reaching the end of our time and I want to make sure, was there anything that you wanted to talk about that we did not get to?
01:44:34.85
Tamara
yeah
01:44:38.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:44:39.15
Tamara
Our Lord and Master Cthulhu. I don't know. um I love my cats. um That's about that on cats. I don't do politics. I'm a humanist, I guess.
01:44:53.24
Tamara
That's what I'm saying now to avoid being political.
01:44:54.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
so okay
01:44:56.33
Tamara
um But I'm very blue.
01:45:00.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, yeah.
01:45:00.03
Tamara
I like being California.
01:45:01.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's why we were able to speak for all this time, because you're reasonable and and blue.
01:45:04.87
Tamara
Yeah.
01:45:06.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right.
01:45:07.59
Tamara
Yes, that's right. and like music, but
01:45:09.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, is is there anything that you want to ask me? Because I do like to give guests a chance to ask me something if they have something they want to ask.
01:45:13.61
Tamara
yeah
01:45:16.49
Tamara
I do want to ask you, tell me what you're writing now.
01:45:18.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:45:20.44
Tamara
Okay.
01:45:20.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, gosh. um Well, I'm finishing up my trilogy, my President's Son trilogy. And the big joke now is that the first book in this trilogy came out in 2020.
01:45:31.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
It wasn't going to be a trilogy. It was just one book. And it was about me trying to explain to the world why I am absolutely convinced that Don Jr. is a good person inside.
01:45:43.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
I was so sure. I have been sure about that since, like, since he was a child, when he was like 12 or 13, and he stopped talking to his dad because his dad cheated on his mom.
01:45:49.62
Tamara
Uh-huh.
01:45:53.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
I said, wow, what a cool kid.
01:45:54.91
Tamara
Uh-huh.
01:45:56.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
What a little badass. Look how ethical he is. Look how moral. And I believe that for years and years and years. And even when all this MAGA stuff started, I was like, nope, that's fake.
01:46:08.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
He's an abused child. This is fake. He doesn't believe it. He doesn't believe any of it. I was so, so sure. And ah then in like 2017, so after his dad was elected, this, like, nobody believed me. Nobody believed he was a good person.
01:46:25.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I'm like, nope, nope, I will not be swayed. And this thing happened where he was going to be building low income housing. And I was so obnoxious about it.
01:46:34.81
Tamara
Okay.
01:46:34.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I was like, see, see you assholes. I told you he's a good guy and he's building houses for poor.
01:46:39.84
Tamara
emma
01:46:42.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wait, what happened? Nobody got paid. It was all a scam from the beginning? oh No, no, no, no. That's not. Like, basically, I was like a regular Trump supporter, but with a different Trump.
01:46:54.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, no matter what you said. Like, well, he's in a picture with this terrible person.
01:46:56.28
Tamara
Oh.
01:46:58.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, he must not know who that is. You know, like, i every excuse in the world, I had to defend that guy.
01:47:00.30
Tamara
Wow.
01:47:04.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
And finally, I said, you know what? I'm going to fictionalize it. I'm going to write it all down. So I wrote this wonderful, heartfelt, sincere little book about an idiot who totally believed in this terrible son of an awful president.
01:47:18.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then at the end, she finds out that like, oh, he's really is kind of a dick and but but no but she still like believed in him and whatever and then so I had it edited and I published it off genre you know I used a ah fake name and actually two fake names for the first book so I put it out and I'm so proud of it and then two months after it came out he helped lead a seditious attack on the capitol
01:47:25.62
Tamara
Wow.
01:47:33.86
Tamara
Wow.
01:47:46.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I said, God damn it.
01:47:47.29
Tamara
Wow.
01:47:49.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
So I was really super angry in 2022 and I wrote a sequel, but that was the year that I was sick.
01:47:50.43
Tamara
now
01:47:57.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
So I was sick in bed for like six months, could not get out of bed, was not eating. I almost died. You know, H each came home from work one day and couldn't wake me up.
01:48:02.97
Tamara
Oh, gee.
01:48:06.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
Called an ambulance, started this whole medical thing.
01:48:07.65
Tamara
Oh.
01:48:10.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
01:48:11.18
Tamara
Oh.
01:48:11.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then I still managed to get the book out by the end of the year.
01:48:14.71
Tamara
Wow.
01:48:14.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that book was really angry. Like that is a, and I thought I was angry because I was angry at him, but it was really cause I was dying. And like, I was just angry and sad about everything.
01:48:25.04
Tamara
Oh.
01:48:27.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
So the third book, which is the one I'm working on now is hilarious.
01:48:28.70
Tamara
Yeah. Uh-huh.
01:48:32.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
um The initial concept was that the main guy, Jonathan Rowlett Jr., his publishing house started writing books with AI. And the AI was actually going to bring about peace in the Middle East.
01:48:46.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
That was the initial concept for the book.
01:48:49.18
Tamara
Uh-huh.
01:48:49.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
But then the real Trump told Bibi that the Levant belonged to Israel and all fucking hell broke loose over there.
01:48:55.96
Tamara
Oh, geez.
01:48:56.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it was, I decided that it was not even a little bit funny to try to write a satire about that, given what subsequently happened.
01:49:02.90
Tamara
Uh-huh.
01:49:05.25
Tamara
Oh.
01:49:07.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then, you know, different things happened and then he got elected again, and supposedly.
01:49:07.83
Tamara
Huh.
01:49:14.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
and
01:49:15.97
Tamara
Wow.
01:49:16.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
So I kept having to like rewrite, rewrite, rewrite.
01:49:16.85
Tamara
Yeah.
01:49:19.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
There was a point at which, and actually told Alistair about this, there was a point at which I said, okay, as long as space aliens do not come down to earth, and as long as they don't tell people to shoot them, I won't have to change the book anymore.
01:49:34.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
And goddamned if two days later i woke up to a Trump tweet that was like, well, we don't know what these ah these satellites are, but it's probably best if you shoot them down.
01:49:43.69
Tamara
oh
01:49:46.28
Tamara
Oh, the flap.
01:49:47.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep. Like, okay, it's kind of hard to not take this personal at this point.
01:49:48.16
Tamara
Yeah. birthday
01:49:53.22
Tamara
Oh, God.
01:49:53.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, I really think they're they're messing with me as an individual.
01:49:54.01
Tamara
hold that flap.
01:49:57.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
But at the same time, it was really considerate of of Don Jr.
01:49:57.56
Tamara
Yeah.
01:50:00.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
to become the president's son again, just for the release of the third book. I feel like I should show him some appreciation for that.
01:50:05.05
Tamara
yeah
01:50:08.05
Tamara
This sounds fascinating. Now, you can
01:50:10.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, the third book is much funnier because it's mostly like they're at the part now where they're at this girl's school and the world is all fucked up and the government is going to try to conscript the girl's school and the girls at the school are very ready for them.
01:50:26.85
Tamara
You're writing the Illuminatus trilogy for and new age, aren't you?
01:50:31.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Kind of. I mean, that wasn't the plan, but, uh, yeah, I was actually thinking of myself more like a hitchhiker's guide in that I would end up telling the last book, uh, so long and thanks for all the treason.
01:50:34.78
Tamara
Oh, that's cool. I love that.
01:50:44.41
Tamara
Oh, God, that's great. Now, I got to ask you a question about this.
01:50:48.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:50:48.90
Tamara
I used to be the interviewer here. and Now I need to interview you.
01:50:51.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
you
01:50:51.97
Tamara
um You... you're saying things that are fascinating to me because i watch people, you know, on social media, um, our side saying,
01:51:05.29
Tamara
you maggots are i don't feel sorry for you how how do you feel now this is horrible instead of going yeah you made a mistake bfd you know come join our side they're driving them further away and this irritates the crap out of me i gotta say this this is not the way we're supposed to act and you are freely admitting that you were taken in by junior and you have come to terms with it.
01:51:31.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:51:33.93
Tamara
You're being very mature about this. But what I want to know is how, what do you think about all that, that the people with their heels dug in that can't,
01:51:48.12
Tamara
see what they were doing wrong. I mean, just in general, everything about that. How do you feel about how you, what did it make you feel like to have to realize that you were wrong? And how do you think other people, why are they still doing this?
01:52:04.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
Um, I mean, i think that anybody can be wrong about anyone. That's absolutely true.
01:52:12.50
Tamara
Yeah.
01:52:12.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
I think that there was a preponderance of evidence after Trump's first term and subsequent terrorist attack on our Capitol that
01:52:22.96
Tamara
Yes.
01:52:25.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
It was very obvious that that should not have ah recurred, that such a person should not have been reelected.
01:52:31.78
Tamara
Exactly.
01:52:32.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
And honestly, I'm not convinced that he was fairly reelected. I think that Elon had a hand in some shenanigans.
01:52:40.38
Tamara
As much as I dislike conspiracy, I have to totally agree.
01:52:40.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
01:52:44.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I think that about the quote-unquote assassination attempt, because...
01:52:48.82
Tamara
Oh, that was fake.
01:52:50.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
Given what we know about Trump, first of all, he would never have given a civilian a million dollars regardless of what happened if he didn't feel that he was at fault.
01:52:59.57
Tamara
No, no.
01:53:00.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
And he hasn't said a word about either of the people that supposedly tried to kill him. And, I mean, Rosie O'Donnell pointed out that he had a bankruptcy and he was shitty to her for over 30 years.
01:53:06.07
Tamara
No. he
01:53:11.95
Tamara
Yeah.
01:53:12.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
So we know that he holds grudges and the fact that he does not have any ill will toward people that literally tried to murder him suggests to me that in fact no one tried to murder him.
01:53:20.55
Tamara
No.
01:53:23.87
Tamara
Oh, i I can't imagine that that actually happened. No.
01:53:27.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
but but But to answer your question,
01:53:28.25
Tamara
That's not it.
01:53:30.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
um I mean, on on the one hand, any feelings that I had about ah Don Jr. were were my feelings. And even though I put it in a book, no one is required to read the book.
01:53:44.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
People who voted for Trump the second time around or the third time around this time
01:53:44.88
Tamara
Oh
01:53:49.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
this time
01:53:50.02
Tamara
God.
01:53:51.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
Not only did they know what he wanted to do to immigrants and to women and girls and gay and trans people, they knew all that. That was okay with with Trump voters.
01:54:02.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
They either thought that they themselves would be insulated or that just, you know, it wouldn't apply to them because they had enough money or they had or they were white or, you know, all this DEI nonsense saying that DEI is bad.
01:54:14.32
Tamara
yeah
01:54:19.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then not realizeling that it not realizing that it applies to things like old people and wheelchair ramps and any woman who wants to work outside the home.
01:54:19.21
Tamara
Well, it's racist. Yeah.
01:54:24.35
Tamara
Right.
01:54:27.64
Tamara
Right. And then renaming the Enola Gay, the Enola Sis. I think that really goes well.
01:54:32.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
Thank you. I was very proud of that. That was me.
01:54:34.73
Tamara
Was that you? i love you. that was the funniest thing I've ever seen.
01:54:43.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes, I was very, very pro. That's right up there with calling Joe Rogan bro-gramming. I was... Yes, I hit it. But yeah, i um As much as I would...
01:54:58.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, fuck them. if you If you voted for Trump the third time, I'm sorry.
01:55:00.56
Tamara
ah
01:55:02.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
Fuck you. Because you voted to do bad things to people who weren't you.
01:55:04.28
Tamara
Yeah.
01:55:07.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
And the reason that they're ruining it now is because the bad things are happening to them. They could not wait to make trans people embarrassed and hide and, you know, and then make, you know, refugees feel like I don't know.
01:55:14.25
Tamara
the thing that you teach them. Yeah.
01:55:18.18
Tamara
Yeah.
01:55:23.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
i know ah I know a lot of parents. I don't know any parents who wouldn't say that they would kill for their child. They would break the law for their child. They would do anything for their child.
01:55:31.95
Tamara
Yeah.
01:55:34.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
And yet when it's a brown person that's not from here.
01:55:38.19
Tamara
ah
01:55:38.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, I mean, Greg Abbott put like razor wire buoys in the water to drown people who were trying to swim for their safety.
01:55:49.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
People that vote for those people, i don't see any reason why I should have to have empathy for them. Plus, I think the whole argument of if we're mean to those fascists, they're going to keep being more fascist is ah is a bullshit argument.
01:56:05.00
Tamara
yeah
01:56:05.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
If you are only going to be a nice person to people that are nice to you I mean, maybe it's the 30 years of customer service I have behind me, but as a citizen, sometimes you have to tolerate things that you would rather not.
01:56:13.16
Tamara
over hu
01:56:18.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it's, it's fine to speak out against them, but you know,
01:56:21.61
Tamara
I do admire somebody who can come out and say I was wrong though. That's, that's what I'm talking about.
01:56:26.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, well no, that that is absolutely valid. To say that they were wrong, at this point I have follow-up questions.
01:56:31.21
Tamara
Yeah. Yeah.
01:56:33.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
What do you know now that you didn't know in October of last year?
01:56:36.94
Tamara
That's a good point, too. Yeah. i I know we're out of time, but I have one more question for you. It's something I've thought about a lot.
01:56:43.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
Please.
01:56:46.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:56:46.82
Tamara
I think this really started getting out of hand when we elected Obama. mean, we know that they were hanging him in effigy and all that.
01:56:56.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:56:57.11
Tamara
I think... the racists, the anti-DNI, DEI people, I can't even talk straight, really lost their shit because we, we elected a black man for our president.
01:57:07.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
<unk>
01:57:11.96
Tamara
And i suspect we're still seeing repercussions from that. What, what do you think?
01:57:18.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
I think that's absolutely true. I think that what is happening now is a fear reaction from old white men who are terrified of having to compete on a level playing field with women and brown people and black people and...
01:57:25.43
Tamara
Hmm.
01:57:34.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, that it's it's all I mean, because look at what they're doing.
01:57:35.03
Tamara
Yes, yes.
01:57:37.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
They're trying to dismantle education. They want us all to be sick and not get our shots. They don't want to teach anyone anything. They don't want people to have no fault divorce. They want women at home so that they can divorce their husbands.
01:57:50.48
Tamara
yeah right
01:57:52.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, and then there's this whole, like, you know, the programming, the the Andrew Tates, the Charlie Kirks, the people that are telling boys to be as bad as women to women as possible because you deserve a woman anyway.
01:58:05.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
You deserve a relationship.
01:58:06.80
Tamara
Oh, stellar color.
01:58:07.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
you does I mean, there are people now, teenagers, listening to podcasters that tell them that the government should issue men a woman so that they won't have to do bad things in the world because they're lonely and sad.
01:58:16.79
Tamara
Oh, God.
01:58:20.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, you hear about the male loneliness epidemic and stuff, and oh, conservative men can't find women!
01:58:21.09
Tamara
guess you want to jug a laugh on me.
01:58:28.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, really?
01:58:28.99
Tamara
Ugh.
01:58:29.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
Women don't want to date you just because you don't want to treat them as a human being? Gosh!
01:58:33.55
Tamara
Disgusting.
01:58:37.37
Tamara
um I'm glad you agree because it's such an odd thing to say, but I've felt that for quite a while now.
01:58:43.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, I think that's absolutely true.
01:58:43.65
Tamara
This is revenge.
01:58:46.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
Um...
01:58:46.29
Tamara
I should, yeah.
01:58:48.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, guess what, though? It's time for the Mad Lib. So it's silliness time.
01:58:52.03
Tamara
oh I forgot about that. That's how my mother taught me now. I could write, but I couldn't do the technical stuff. I'm i'm all for that.
01:59:01.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right, well, let's start with a plural noun.
01:59:02.48
Tamara
Okay.
01:59:05.53
Tamara
Pearl noun. Oh, douchebags.
01:59:11.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
And an adjective.
01:59:14.61
Tamara
Voluminous.
01:59:16.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
I need a singular noun
01:59:21.51
Tamara
Gooseberry.
01:59:23.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
and another adjective.
01:59:27.59
Tamara
Oh, wow. um Oh, God. Now my voice is going blank all a sudden. An adjective. um Twinkly.
01:59:41.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
Alright, and another adjective. Actually, I need two, three more adjectives.
01:59:46.33
Tamara
Three more adjectives. This is tough.
01:59:48.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:59:48.79
Tamara
um Let's see. Now an adjective is a descriptor. So that would be um effuvalent.
02:00:02.32
Tamara
and boisterous and stinky.
02:00:08.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right. Now this one is person in room. And that is always the guest. Oh, looks like there's another one. So that'll be me.
02:00:16.21
Tamara
Oh no. Okay.
02:00:18.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
And a plural noun.
02:00:20.66
Tamara
Plural noun, cats.
02:00:25.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Alright, verb ending in ing.
02:00:28.99
Tamara
Um, how, um, um,
02:00:36.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Alright, good lord, another person in room. ah There's no one else in this room, so I'm going to put Joan Jett, that's one of my lizards, I have morning geckos. They're all named after famous lesbians.
02:00:49.44
Tamara
Oh, nice. I like that. Okay.
02:00:51.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
Thanks. So I need one, two, three singular nouns.
02:00:52.62
Tamara
Um,
02:00:57.32
Tamara
okay um I would like to say a a singular noun, a bathtub,
02:01:07.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
02:01:09.86
Tamara
a birthing stool. God knows where that came from. And a pipe organ.
02:01:16.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
Type organ. and We laughed because we said organ, right?
02:01:21.74
Tamara
you Yes.
02:01:22.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
I need two more adjectives.
02:01:23.15
Tamara
Two more adjectives. Slimy. And. I already said a few feel it um noisy.
02:01:32.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
You did.
02:01:36.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
Alright, an adverb.
02:01:38.45
Tamara
An adverb quickly.
02:01:42.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
An occupation.
02:01:45.53
Tamara
Oh, a pile driver. i don't even know what that is, but
02:01:51.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
I think it's a pro wrestler, right? It says a pile driver is a wrestling move.
02:01:54.72
Tamara
I have no idea. It might also be a tool.
02:01:57.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's not here. Oh,
02:01:59.34
Tamara
Oh, okay. It might also be like a tool or something. I don't know.
02:02:01.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
I suppose. Okay, last one.
02:02:02.96
Tamara
Someone who does tool.
02:02:03.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
Last one is a part of the body.
02:02:07.74
Tamara
Um, kneecap.
02:02:13.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
I was expecting it to be a little dirtier, but okay.
02:02:16.45
Tamara
I can go near the air if you want.
02:02:18.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nope, nope, too late.
02:02:19.09
Tamara
Oh, okay.
02:02:19.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
I wrote it in the past.
02:02:22.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
Alright, this is called Record Breakers.
02:02:22.73
Tamara
Sorry to fix my reputation. Okay. Okay.
02:02:28.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
To celebrate our Little League team's many douchebags this season, our coach took us to a voluminous restaurant for a pizza party. At the Gooseberry, he gave out twinkly awards to our team's most effuvelent players.
02:02:46.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
Tamara got the Boisterous Slugger Award for hitting the most home cats.
02:02:53.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wedness won the Stinky Eye Award for having the best flying average. And Joan Jett set a new record for bathtub stealing and was given slimy trophy. wish you'll like that.
02:03:08.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
can I wasn't sure if Coach had birthing stool for me. I knew i wasn't the best hitter or best pile driver, though I worked very quickly all season.
02:03:23.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
But to my surprise, Coach gave me a small silver pipe organ for being a noisy team player. I'm so proud i can't wipe the smile off my kneecaf.
02:03:38.66
Tamara
oh
02:03:38.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
Hilarious!
02:03:40.48
Tamara
It is. And how do you pronounce your name?
02:03:43.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, well, you know, my friends actually call me Wedness with two syllables, you know.
02:03:48.02
Tamara
Wetness.
02:03:48.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, but you can call me Wednesday. People do.
02:03:52.66
Tamara
Wetness.
02:03:53.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
just
02:03:53.48
Tamara
I like that. It sounds like wetness.
02:03:57.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
well now I'm not doing it yeah it's like the only abbreviation that I do not like is WVD period I don't like being called wed yeah not a fan so oh my gosh I am so glad you could be here this was great
02:03:59.24
Tamara
ah of
02:04:08.18
Tamara
and don't blame you.
02:04:14.25
Tamara
This was a lot of fun. Thank you for having me.
02:04:16.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, it is my pleasure, my absolute pleasure. And I believe you're going to be giving us an audio sample to put on the end of the episode. um So readers.
02:04:25.62
Tamara
Yeah, I'll get my audio guy send me something to send to you from Old Wives Tales.
02:04:31.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
Awesome. We want to remind all of our listeners to find us on Ko-Fi. That's K-O-F-I, where we are sometimes hilarious horror. The magazine sponsors the podcast.
02:04:42.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
And everybody is all good friends here. So supporting the magazine is the best way to support the show. And we will see everybody next week. Bye.
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