Mentally Oddcast Transcript: Chris, Matt, & Denise on maintaining sobriety.
The audio version of this episode can be found here.
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Helpline: https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/helplines/national-helpline
Alcoholics Anonymous Virtual Meeting Directory https://aa-intergroup.org/meetings/
Harriet Lerner: https://www.harrietlerner.com/
00:00:03.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
You are listening to The Mentally Oddcast. My name is Wednesday, Lee Friday. Thanks for being here. ah We're actually doing something a little different right now on the show. um Because of everything that's happening in the world, we're going to do a series of episodes that focuses on vulnerable populations, ah things that you might need to know, things that might be helpful, and just generally reminding you that you have people out here that are going through what you're going through and people are there for you. Okay so we're actually going to start with sobriety because anecdotally I've spoken with many people that are having difficulty maintaining their sobriety. um I am not an alcoholic but I've certainly been drinking more in the last few months than I have in the last
00:01:00.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
15 years. So I'm a little concerned about that, frankly. um Our guests are um some some people that know what they're talking about in this arena. um We're just going to use first names, I think. um So we'll start with Chris.
00:01:18.54
Chris S.
Hello. My name's Chris. I've been sober since approximately September 15th, 2009. ah And you know like many of us, ah what I thought was going to be a time for celebration is instead a time for deep mourning and reflection and handling your emotions in sobriety.
00:01:48.31
Chris S.
is, well, it can it's it's the whole deal, really. And hopefully my experience can assist people in finding a place within themselves that is able to deal with the world around them without resorting to hurting themselves. Because cause nobody likes to hurt themselves. We all deserve kindness.
00:02:14.58
Chris S.
from ourselves as much as from everyone else.
00:02:15.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:02:17.06
Chris S.
And and hopefully I can help promote that. That's why I'm here. Thanks for having me.
00:02:21.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, that is wonderful. Thank you so much. um I think you actually hit on something interesting because when we talk about hurting ourselves, I was actually thinking about the connection between like a relapse essentially being like a passive suicide attempt, you know, because when you know that something is bad for you and you choose to do it anyway, despite that, I mean, it's it's such a I mean, it's like an act of of self-loathing and then you chastise yourself for it like it's a weakness. But oh, I don't want to go off on a whole thing. I want to make sure everybody gets introduced. Denise.
00:03:02.66
Denise Rosales
Hello, I'm Denise. I've been sober since May 16th, 2021. I just hit three and a half years past 17th. And basically what happened, I mean, I had been drinking for a few decades and I honestly didn't even start drinking daily and heavily until I got a DUI. And they told me that I was going to be drug tested. So that meant no more smoking. So once I got rid of that and restricted license,
00:03:30.69
Denise Rosales
Basically, I had everybody driving me everywhere and I was getting drunk everywhere I went. um That was in my 20s, you know, fast forward to now or to 2021. And I went and met with a group of friends in Georgetown for a boozy brunch, you know, a bunch of mimosas, a bunch of girls I grew up with and my sister were there. It's 45 minutes from my house. um When I left, everybody kept asking me, are you okay to drive? Because i'm I'm actually from that area, from Arlington.
00:03:56.66
Denise Rosales
Um, I was like, no, I'm okay. I'm okay. So I drive and halfway down there, I, you know, I had to go to the bathroom. So I stopped at a bar and right into the restroom and ended up at the bar on my way out.
00:04:01.48
Matt F.
Thank you.
00:04:07.93
Denise Rosales
Um, I had quite a few more mimosas. I wouldn't be able to tell you how many I get home. The next day I walk out to the car with my husband and he says, what the fuck happened? And I was like, what are you talking about?
00:04:19.35
Denise Rosales
And I go to the passenger side of the car and the whole right side of my car over the tires, like all messed up. And there was a flat tire, like I don't even know how the car ran. um And it all came back to me like it was a dream. I think I hit a barrier and people came up to me, asked me if I was okay. I said, I was, got in the car and then drove an additional 13 minutes home. I had no recollection of how I got home or any of it. And I just looked at my husband and it was like time stood still and I said, I'm going to quit drinking. And he was like, I think that's a good idea.
00:04:54.32
Denise Rosales
And that's how I got sober and we're a blended family. And my daughter, I have sole custody of her. And at the time, the first thing that flashed in my head was what court cases is she gonna have to deal with if I'm no longer around?
00:05:08.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh my gosh.
00:05:10.03
Denise Rosales
And that scared the fuck out of me because I am unmarried and he's been in her life since she was three. And I wouldn't, yeah, that was my rock bottom. Everybody has a rock bottom and that was mine. Cause I, Lord knows I had a lot more signs to stop before that day, but that day was what hit me and made me stop.
00:05:29.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:05:32.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Matt, what do you have to tell us?
00:05:32.98
Denise Rosales
Yeah.
00:05:34.39
Matt F.
Oh, hey, how's it going? My name is Matt. I'm a writer, musician, and grateful recovering alcoholic. I've been in recovery a little over five years.
00:05:46.73
Matt F.
um My rock bottom was was kind of a little bit more intense in just the sense of I didn't quit drinking until I had to go to the hospital to stop drinking. So I had two instances of alcohol withdrawal seizures within A year the first one happened to me while I was at work.
00:06:12.12
Matt F.
By the way, it was a bartender for upwards of like seven years um Before that I've always had jobs where I could drink like since I was like 23 24 And It's always it's been a problem for a long time and But there came a point where I was sort of daring myself to keep going because nobody was was interfering, nobody was intervening, I should say.
00:06:15.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
00:06:41.18
Matt F.
And so it was like playing chicken, like how how much can I do this while riding that thin line? And I was fortunate enough to to make it both times. The second time that I spent 11 days in the hospital and one day after the hospital,
00:07:05.74
Matt F.
I was able to just relax and be with my partner at the time. And then the next day we drove down to Murfreesboro, Tennessee, and I went to rehab at Journey Pure at the river for about a month.
00:07:21.06
Matt F.
um And then that was full impatient, yeah.
00:07:22.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
So that was full inpatient.
00:07:26.26
Matt F.
And this was 2019, so ah six months into my recovery, ah the COVID pandemic began. And I knew a lot of friends who who had some serious struggles during the you know that first six months to a year of the pandemic especially.
00:07:48.10
Matt F.
For me, it wound up being a blessing in disguise because I ah managed to get a job at the right time that I was able to get unemployment. I was able to figure out what I wanted to do with my life sort of for the first time in a long time.
00:08:04.80
Matt F.
was able to start my ah original career as a freelance writer and that, you know, positive things kept coming the longer I didn't drink. So it's been a ah pretty steady,
00:08:18.99
Matt F.
um it's been, ah I've had a a nice streak of doing the right thing leading to positive outcomes. And that has all kind of led me into reluctant optimism in the face of guaranteed terror. That makes sense.
00:08:40.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, well, I think optimism is probably something that we should discuss first because there seems to be this pull right now. I appreciate the need for optimism. That's the thing that that keeps us alive. I mean, it's the basis of hope, but at the same time, man America as a democracy is behind us and the people that are about to be in charge are bad. I mean, I don't want to go on and on about this, but like how do you retain ah any sort of baseline of of optimism in the face of knowing that your government hates you?
00:09:23.86
Matt F.
You know, I think that the first and most important thing to do, it's just like when you are struggling with addiction. You know, the first step is admitting that you have a problem. So we we see now, you know, we have this sort of collective crystal ball of what could happen now that we know that democracy is on its, you know, ah It's fast decline. And because of the fact that we can expect the worst or prepare for some of the worst, it's, you know, we've got a couple months where people have already leading into this, this, uh,
00:10:10.51
Matt F.
sort of limbo time where once everyone can process the grief and go through the stages it's like okay now we know some of what we're up against we got to get ready we have to prepare we have to uh we have to find some glimmer of hope but we can't do it if we're all individually struggling with taking care of ourselves so
00:10:19.42
Denise Rosales
I think that's a good question.
00:10:39.57
Chris S.
And ah it it feels like ah pointing out that hurting yourself is never going to be a solution for dealing with fear or anxiety or any of the emotions that following the news can
00:10:39.88
Matt F.
In order to have any sort of optimism, we have to just be willing to take care of ourselves before we take care of each other.
00:10:40.65
Denise Rosales
i mean
00:11:04.00
Denise Rosales
I mean.
00:11:07.72
Chris S.
generate in a person that you know obliterating your consciousness through your drug of choice is not a viable coping mechanism.
00:11:19.99
Denise Rosales
I mean, I can share what what's been helpful for me um as far as that, and one is gratitude.
00:11:20.34
Chris S.
and
00:11:27.27
Denise Rosales
I mean, gratitude first and foremost for my sobriety each and every day, because when the results came out, yeah, I was heartbroken. You know, yes, I did cry. And one of the things that hit me, though, was four years ago and eight years ago, I was so wasted during the entire time that I was posting and commenting some vicious things at people. And some of the things, you know, some of the people were outlandish and things that they said, yes, but I didn't need to be part of the drama. And this time when the results came, I just thanked myself for how far I've come and doing this over and just working on myself every day, because that's the only thing that's really saved me and gotten me through this is the meditating, the journaling and just being grateful.
00:12:18.01
Denise Rosales
that I got sober to begin with.
00:12:21.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
Hmm.
00:12:23.35
Chris S.
Well, we're all ah trapped in our head with ourselves.
00:12:23.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
Interesting.
00:12:26.52
Chris S.
So ah I think learning to love yourself or at least put up with yourself is often a key part of recovery. that you got We got to have as much compassion for...
00:12:38.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and it's so many people that.
00:12:47.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, I think, I think that's absolutely true.
00:12:48.72
Chris S.
Go ahead.
00:12:49.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, because, I mean, I know you pretty well. And I think that one of the things that we share is that we say things to ourselves that we would never. think of saying to another human being because it would be too cruel and too heartless and too, of you know, on ungenerous.
00:13:07.90
Chris S.
We do share that. Yeah.
00:13:09.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
and And I mean, I know where my mean voice in the back of my head comes from, but well, yours too, I suppose.
00:13:12.95
Chris S.
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:16.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
But I think that, I mean, the the question is how how do you get there?
00:13:20.51
Chris S.
yeah
00:13:22.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
How do you How do you shut that voice up? like Because the the worst thing for me is to think that maybe that voice is right.
00:13:26.17
Chris S.
hum
00:13:28.83
Chris S.
Well, I mean, i ah it's like Denise says that there are
00:13:35.20
Denise Rosales
Thanks practice.
00:13:38.33
Chris S.
There are strategies, you know, sometimes it's just putting something in front of yourself. Like a occasionally we've in my house ah said we're all gonna make a little bit of art, whether that's doing mosaics or paintings or my partner's taking up the fuse beads crafting, the sort of pixel art.
00:14:03.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh neat.
00:14:03.57
Denise Rosales
Oh, nice.
00:14:04.32
Chris S.
And you know, it's it's just something to, so you don't have to think about politics for an hour or two. The library I work at often has, you know, crafting days and what else will they spotlight?
00:14:20.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and it isn't even so much about, I mean, they crafting is one of those things that is joyful in and of itself, but it's also productive in that you've created something, like something exists now that didn't, yes.
00:14:32.12
Chris S.
you You end up with a product. you know yep
00:14:35.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I mean, it's the kind of thing that like, once you have it, you can enjoy it visually, you can give it as a gift, you can make functional art items. And like, even beyond that, things like music and and writing and all of the things that we do as an emotional release are so important when you are trying to keep your mental health square.
00:14:56.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
And when you're trying to stay sober when you really don't want to.
00:14:56.91
Chris S.
You know, yep.
00:15:01.62
Matt F.
It's a lot of processing.
00:15:01.58
Chris S.
I feel like the the the important thing when making art is that the right time is now and the right tools are the ones you have in front of you.
00:15:01.85
Denise Rosales
huge one is connection.
00:15:11.68
Chris S.
Don't wait for the perfect moment. you know Every day is the perfect moment because the alternative is usually using drugs.
00:15:23.13
Chris S.
so ah
00:15:23.44
Denise Rosales
I think a big ah big thing that helped me was just community, connection, because they always say that you know the opposite of addiction is connection.
00:15:23.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep, yep.
00:15:31.25
Denise Rosales
And it's true because I would drink at home by myself and I wouldn't really say yes to invites ever. Like I was just, told you know, at home every night.
00:15:36.84
Chris S.
that's right
00:15:38.81
Denise Rosales
And once I found, like I did the online community at first and then once, um, I guess it was like almost a year or no, a little over a year ago, I went into on Facebook and typed in Maryland sober girls and found this huge community in Maryland.
00:15:53.96
Denise Rosales
And then. Because it was like based on the other side of Maryland, I posted in our own local group here in Frederick and all of us that we had so many people, so many women join that they had to create a subgroup. And now these ladies, I meet with them every week for coffee and having somebody who knows what it's like to be sober, who celebrates the milestones with you, who, cause you know, people that live with me, my husband, they don't get it. And they, you can't really make them get it.
00:16:24.19
Chris S.
You will always, I think, have a unique connection to people who have also been through the struggle.
00:16:24.56
Denise Rosales
But these ladies, they help me feel seen. Yeah. And we're so eclectic. if you We would have never been friends, you know, outside of sobriety.
00:16:34.75
Chris S.
Yeah.
00:16:35.90
Denise Rosales
And you see us now and you're like, I would have never imagined they'd be friends.
00:16:36.25
Chris S.
yeah one
00:16:41.17
Denise Rosales
And it's great.
00:16:41.35
Matt F.
i think that I think that the word that ties together what both Chris and Denise were saying is humanity. you know Arts, crafts, music, all all types of art, you know it's the humanities.
00:16:57.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mmhmm.
00:16:57.27
Matt F.
nay And it encompasses what keeps us from being animals. And you know clearly we're in ah a time where There's too much animal, too much of an animal response from every side of discourse and every side of American life where you don't know what other people are going through. People who aren't in recovery don't know what we are going through, people who are in active addiction.
00:17:35.15
Matt F.
you know, nobody knows what they're going through. And the only way to kind of process all of that is to harness our humanity, you know, forging communities, like Denise said, and processing, you know, I use music, I use poetry to process my emotions and my thoughts, and also I do it more for myself than I do for other people. Of course, I like to share when I create something, but the process of retaining humanity through creation is really the first thing that I grasped for after giving myself a few days to wallow, I guess.
00:18:23.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, but when you have something ah major happen to you like that in your life, the first thing, I mean, I guess some people are conditioned to keep things to themselves, but most of the people that I know are fairly expressive. So they are looking for some sort of artistic way to express the unexpressible because I mean, how do you really put into words what that feels like?
00:18:53.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
when you stop your life and take a self-evaluation and realize something huge needs to change, and then you start making those changes so suddenly everything is different.
00:19:04.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, it's such a... getting sober can be such an enormous undertaking that...
00:19:09.65
Denise Rosales
Well, you end up with so much time on your hands, you know, and you don't, I didn't realize it until I stopped drinking.
00:19:13.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:19:14.41
Chris S.
You do. You have to fill it with something.
00:19:17.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and a lot of times you need
00:19:17.35
Denise Rosales
Yeah, and I was like, all the times I was thinking about drinking, you won't about going to the beer store, what time does the beer store close?
00:19:18.03
Chris S.
so
00:19:22.71
Denise Rosales
Will that event have alcohol? Anytime I had those thoughts, I was taking up time in my mind. So now it's like I get to explore things that I find joy on.
00:19:31.18
Chris S.
yeah
00:19:33.22
Denise Rosales
And I think that was a huge thing that I love to share it with people because you don't get it until you get it. You know, like you can find you will have so much time on your hands that you will have time to self love and to do things that make you happy.
00:19:45.90
Chris S.
I was on the phone with my brother last week, maybe, and his observation was that he he was just as traumatized as the rest of us recently. And he valued the ability we have as brothers to to sit in discomfort. And I i felt like that was an important observation, especially for addicts. You have to get comfortable with
00:20:16.52
Chris S.
Having a feeling that comes, arrives, stays with you, and and then will disappear.
00:20:18.21
Denise Rosales
Yeah.
00:20:20.46
Matt F.
Comfort with discomfort.
00:20:24.13
Chris S.
you know You don't have to do anything about it. You don't have to solve a problem.
00:20:29.54
Denise Rosales
Exactly.
00:20:29.74
Chris S.
It's not always an active thing. because we all want to reach out and say, I know how to solve your problem for you. You just need to do this or that or the other thing.
00:20:38.99
Denise Rosales
and
00:20:40.03
Chris S.
And sometimes you just have to sit with feelings that don't feel so great until they're over.
00:20:41.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm Well and man Well, especially
00:20:47.06
Chris S.
And I found as an addicted person, that was a hard, hard skill to develop.
00:20:50.14
Denise Rosales
It's hard.
00:20:55.08
Denise Rosales
I took naps because I found I realized very quickly I worked from home.
00:20:58.71
Chris S.
Well,
00:21:00.63
Denise Rosales
Well, I was fired 10 days unrelated 10 days after I got sober. I was fired. Um, so I had a lot of time on my hands and I realized very quickly that I also drank when I was bored.
00:21:08.85
Chris S.
Yeah.
00:21:11.51
Denise Rosales
So whenever I started getting that feeling, I would head to the bed and take a nap.
00:21:15.14
Matt F.
Yep.
00:21:15.21
Denise Rosales
I was napping a lot, but it was better than the alternative.
00:21:17.95
Chris S.
I probably use sleep as a coping mechanism more than I should still, but, uh, never, never killed anyone while I was asleep.
00:21:23.40
Denise Rosales
Yes. Yes, I can. Yep. It's a good one. I mean, kind of.
00:21:29.49
Denise Rosales
Right. Exactly.
00:21:31.43
Matt F.
Not that you know of.
00:21:32.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
So let's get into that a little bit.
00:21:33.09
Denise Rosales
Right.
00:21:33.89
Chris S.
Right.
00:21:36.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
Let's talk about the things that you can do when you are alone because you're always, I mean, everybody ends up by themselves for some time regardless of how ah social you want to be.
00:21:49.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
especially people that like don't work or whatever, but let's get into ways to maintain your sobriety and fill your time when you're home alone. Because like personally, I am all about consuming media. I read, I watch things at movies, I i stream shows, um but I also have to be kind of careful because I tend to be very emotionally impacted by the kind of media that I'm consuming.
00:22:16.78
Denise Rosales
ah
00:22:18.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that summer I was really depressed and watched Joker every day. Not a great move. Not, not the best way to, to deal with those feelings.
00:22:23.71
Matt F.
No.
00:22:25.90
Denise Rosales
you know
00:22:28.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
So what do you guys do? Give me all your, all your tips.
00:22:32.90
Denise Rosales
hi I mean, I work out daily. I was already kind of like as somebody who worked out. um I also found joy in different routines, like, you know,
00:22:44.71
Denise Rosales
usually a Friday, I know a Friday would mean go and get it like a bottle of Django home and watch TV all night, right? And basically blackout while watching TV. um Instead of doing that but for a good year, I came up with a routine of sparkling water with fruit and playing Candy Crush while catching up on my law and order episodes from the night before. And that became such a routine that I looked so forward to. And the feeling of waking up the next morning at 6am feeling refreshed for my meditation.
00:23:13.89
Denise Rosales
It was worth it. And after, I mean, it took me 90 days to actually realize I never wanted to go back. But once I hit that 90 days, man, it was like something clicked. I was like, yeah, and says this is definitely the only way to live.
00:23:28.36
Chris S.
Acknowledging progress is vital. you know why I have a number of little sort of anniversary days spread throughout the year that keep me going, you know get me a little, but definitely I get anxious when I look at the news, too. So especially during the pandemic, I think it's shifted my entire entertainment strategy. I need kind of light and fluffy things. I don't watch the wrenching psychological dramas as much anymore.
00:24:06.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I know that feeling.
00:24:06.44
Denise Rosales
I can say I have stayed away from news for five years and it has been the best thing in my life for my mindset.
00:24:11.36
Chris S.
Yeah, can't deny that. ah
00:24:15.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
I've actually been avoiding news in a way that i I hadn't before.
00:24:15.06
Matt F.
i think
00:24:19.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, before the election, it seemed really important to know what was going on because we were trying to make something happen. But now that we haven't prevented the bad thing from happening and it happened, I can't get into the whole like, Oh no, he nominated this terrible person and that terrible person.
00:24:37.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, yes, he's, it's all terrible.
00:24:39.22
Matt F.
I think.
00:24:39.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
I don't, I don't. need the blow by blow in the news anymore because there's there's nothing to be done about it really.
00:24:47.51
Denise Rosales
I unfollow any posts that trigger me online.
00:24:48.38
Chris S.
Yeah, that's when I pull out the dead tree books and try to lose myself in the printed word.
00:24:51.82
Denise Rosales
Anything.
00:24:56.68
Chris S.
I spent too much time tear staring at screens otherwise between work and doom scrolling at home.
00:25:00.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, that's that's true.
00:25:01.56
Denise Rosales
I feel it's so important to protect your energy, to protect your bubble in your world.
00:25:03.77
Chris S.
you know Yeah, yeah.
00:25:06.78
Denise Rosales
and And I think it's super, super crucial in severity alone.
00:25:08.55
Chris S.
It's it about the first principle being taking good care of yourself.
00:25:13.82
Denise Rosales
Mm-hmm.
00:25:13.80
Chris S.
I agree, Denise.
00:25:16.83
Denise Rosales
I mean, i used forbri I used sobriety so many times to get out of events.
00:25:16.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
What about you, Matt?
00:25:17.32
Chris S.
You know, you can't
00:25:21.03
Denise Rosales
I'm like, or one time I went to my mom's and my sister was there and she triggered me.
00:25:21.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:25:25.13
Denise Rosales
And I got up and I said, I took my mom aside and I said, I'm sorry, I gotta go. Um, I feel kind of triggered right now and I don't have been there 10 minutes and we lost. And I didn't feel bad about it because my sobriety is number one and it affects everybody around me, whether they like it or not.
00:25:43.27
Denise Rosales
So.
00:25:43.35
Chris S.
Can't pour from an empty cup.
00:25:45.78
Denise Rosales
Right. And if you want me, you know, it's like my, it's going to affect you either way, if I drink or if I don't drink, but you have to respect the boundaries. So, and my sister was not very respectful of the boundaries that day. So I said, okay, well, I'll just leave them. And I did.
00:26:03.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, that's um, I was, I was actually thinking about how you went when a lot of people get sober. You have to kind of get a new friend group. And sometimes you do have to amend or, or set very clear boundaries with family members. Cause I know my, my family, my extended family, who they drink every celebration, beer after beer, after beer, after beer. Like that was the whole thing. And if I was in a situation where I wanted to not be around people that were drinking beer, there'd be no telling them to not drink.
00:26:41.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, i I would not be able to be there because they're not going to curtail their drinking because one person wants it.
00:26:42.49
Denise Rosales
Yeah.
00:26:48.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
So how, but I mean.
00:26:49.31
Denise Rosales
Right.
00:26:49.41
Chris S.
Well, then, yeah.
00:26:49.55
Denise Rosales
I mean, my family doesn't drink. My mom and my sister, it was just the two of us growing up, but the three of us, they don't drink. They don't drink at all. So it was like one of those things where, yeah, it didn't really faze me.
00:27:02.19
Denise Rosales
It was my mother and mom, my mother and mother. I think every once in a while she'll still ask me, are you still not drinking?
00:27:09.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:27:10.64
Chris S.
The nice thing about a glass of ginger ale or plain soda water is that no one can really tell it's not a alcohol unless they go sniffing in your glass.
00:27:10.74
Denise Rosales
Yeah. right
00:27:18.57
Denise Rosales
um
00:27:22.56
Chris S.
so
00:27:22.63
Denise Rosales
You can ask bartenders for a bartender like a mocktail and a bar glass, you know, because I've had many people because I was a bartender for six years way back when and people ask me to do that stuff for them all the time.
00:27:27.54
Chris S.
yeah we We searched pretty hard for the Shirley Temple 7 up recently. I wanted to try that out.
00:27:36.78
Denise Rosales
Oh, yeah.
00:27:37.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:27:40.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's interesting because you wouldn't think that adults would want to be even concerned with that. because I think of that as like a peer pressure thing like oh you're not drinking like people getting in your face about whether or not you drink but particularly people who drink and they're drinking is kind of questionable so they're threatened by people that got sober man do people want to make that their business it is
00:27:49.38
Denise Rosales
Mm hmm.
00:27:59.50
Denise Rosales
Mm-hmm. It shines a light.
00:28:01.91
Chris S.
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:04.35
Matt F.
it's also It's also something that for certain communities and certain ah generations, I guess, where it's just the the automatic, the default is, oh yeah, we drink.
00:28:16.30
Matt F.
Like for me, throughout my 20s, I drank. I went to the bar, that's where my friends were, that's what what we did.
00:28:20.60
Denise Rosales
Mm-hmm.
00:28:23.32
Matt F.
And my hobbies now are sitting at home, playing music, watching YouTube videos and spending time with my dog, and being mostly comfortable being by myself, but then also having sort of an idea of how to handle myself if I'm going to meet up with some friends for some beverages.
00:28:47.49
Matt F.
I know at least here in Chicago where I, in the neighborhood I live in, every single place has at least
00:28:53.22
Denise Rosales
I'm going to turn it over to you.
00:28:56.24
Matt F.
NA beers, mocktails and different options. For me, if I, if nothing else, I'll have a soda water and I'm good. If anyone yet, nobody, didn did I guess that's the other thing is.
00:29:10.62
Matt F.
when i do see these friends they kind of know that i don't drink now compared to you know the time where i was just always drunk um and it's just that it's like you had to kind of be comfortable with yourself when you're around people and yeah like denise said you just have to have you don't have to but it's helpful to have a compulsion to leave if you need to.
00:29:39.91
Matt F.
For me, oh, well, you know, I got to get back to my dog. My dog needs me. And, you know, really, it's, nah, I need my dog. We we have a nice codependent relationship going on.
00:29:48.44
Denise Rosales
Mm-hmm.
00:29:50.78
Matt F.
and
00:29:52.34
Denise Rosales
You do really get addicted to being home by yourself, though. I will tell you that. Once you start that self-love journey you of not waking up, hating yourself every day, once you stop that whole cycle, the self-love is just unbelievable, you know, if you do the work.
00:30:07.65
Denise Rosales
You know, I didn't, I'm not somebody who went to AA.
00:30:08.03
Matt F.
and that's
00:30:08.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:30:09.73
Denise Rosales
I have many friends who are very, but you know, active in AA, nothing against it, but I just knew that. I knew it wasn't for me because I, I used to drive my friends there in high school when they were court ordered to go.
00:30:21.14
Denise Rosales
So I had been to many AI meetings and I knew it just wasn't, I'm an empath and I would just take, I would be worse when I left because I would take everybody's stories on with me. And when I got sober this time, I was like, I know that's not the way.
00:30:31.32
Matt F.
And that's it.
00:30:33.82
Denise Rosales
So I got sober via just self-love and working on myself and the root of the problem.
00:30:41.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
I think there are a lot of reasons why traditional AA and NA don't work for people, women in particular actually.
00:30:49.57
Denise Rosales
Yes, yes, I can go down the whole spiral.
00:30:50.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
um because when ah Well, when i when I went through, I was a dual diagnosis person basically because I was in a state funded program and they weren't allowed to say, you may use marijuana medicinally.
00:31:03.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
It was all sober all the time, like not even NyQuil.
00:31:08.12
Denise Rosales
Oh yeah.
00:31:08.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, and and and I mean, that's a philosophy that works for people, but that wasn't what I was looking for. I am perfectly comfortable being a person who smokes weed every day. Um, but, but I don't want to drink too much because that messes with my productivity and my health and you know, a lot of things that I'm worried about, but I don't feel that way about weed.
00:31:17.90
Denise Rosales
oh yeah
00:31:30.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
but ah But I did go through some of those programs, and one of the things that they want people to say in them is that you are powerless against your addiction.
00:31:30.37
Denise Rosales
right
00:31:38.67
Denise Rosales
That's what gets me. I can't do that. I can't do that.
00:31:40.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, that that did that did not work for me.
00:31:41.51
Denise Rosales
I don't agree.
00:31:44.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
and Plus, you know higher power is such a big jumble of everything. you know i don't
00:31:51.73
Chris S.
we They've made some strides, I think, to broaden their appeal, but at its base, the language and the terms were all developed in the 20s and the 30s, and I don't think ah so modern society relates the same way to the message as it was delivered originally.
00:32:03.20
Denise Rosales
Yeah. The words are the psychology and words.
00:32:14.12
Chris S.
Some of that language in those stories is a little on the
00:32:14.38
Matt F.
i't know
00:32:19.34
Chris S.
archaic side, I suppose.
00:32:21.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, which which doesn't necessarily negate the information, like the big book has stuff in it that's worth reading.
00:32:27.54
Chris S.
but it is As a framework, it's it's pretty good. I took a lot from it and put my own spin on it personally.
00:32:32.39
Matt F.
I don't know. I I was just going to say, i can I can say the Serenity Prayer with or without saying God, and it slaps either way.
00:32:36.02
Chris S.
Go ahead, Matt.
00:32:44.26
Matt F.
know. so
00:32:44.96
Denise Rosales
Mm-hmm. Oh, definitely.
00:32:46.59
Matt F.
it the you know a lot of the slogans A lot of the slogans in AA were very helpful one day at a time, that kind of stuff.
00:32:48.49
Denise Rosales
I just got interchangeably with the universe. Like, I use that word interchangeably.
00:32:56.38
Matt F.
but no you You shouldn't have to frame yourself as powerless. It's a little too churchy for me in that regard. You have to enable yourself to have the power to get yourself through every day.
00:33:05.04
Denise Rosales
Yeah.
00:33:10.51
Matt F.
And that's whether you're in recovery, active addiction in between and or just ah someone who doesn't struggle with these things going through such a high level trauma as this election and this impending administration, it's, you know, you just have to empower yourself if you're going to get through trauma, I guess.
00:33:40.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I.
00:33:40.43
Denise Rosales
I agree. I, when I, when I coach my clients with the first interest of Brady, a huge portion of that is your words matter. The words you say to yourself, the words you speak out loud and to say, I am powerless.
00:33:53.83
Denise Rosales
I mean, that really triggers me because it's like, no, I'm not powerless because anybody who was sober is F and powerful in my book. Like I don't care.
00:34:05.53
Denise Rosales
So yeah. So where does it matter?
00:34:07.24
Matt F.
very true.
00:34:07.92
Denise Rosales
I'm a huge advocate of that. so
00:34:11.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
So let's talk a little bit about what worked for you when you were getting sober and what continues to work now, even when stress levels are high. um Chris, do you want to start?
00:34:23.34
Chris S.
Um, I think in my personal journey for myself, there came a point where I re I knew what I was looking for when I took a drink. I, I identified what I thought I needed from alcohol, what it gave me and how I always managed to overshoot the mark. But then I realized that there was.
00:34:48.66
Chris S.
There's nothing in that well that that the thing I wanted, no matter how many times I went back and picked up, I would never get what I wanted. And as long as I keep that in mind.
00:35:00.67
Chris S.
I don't find myself tempted to use alcohol again. That I could walk to my cabinets right now and drink the vanilla extract. I probably wouldn't get what I wanted out of it. And, you know, I used to say, whatever problems you were trying to solve,
00:35:20.47
Chris S.
by taking a drink. We'll still be there, only you'll have a hangover. And you're going to have to deal with them anyway.
00:35:26.63
Denise Rosales
Yeah.
00:35:29.42
Chris S.
And one of the pieces of architecture I took from AA was ah once I have moved every lever I can reach, once I've done everything that's in my power,
00:35:30.76
Denise Rosales
With less money.
00:35:44.41
Chris S.
to change a situation, whether that's making a phone call or paying a bill or answering a social call. Once there's nothing left to do, I can't beat myself up about it, you know?
00:36:00.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:36:01.27
Chris S.
You do everything there is to do and and that's it.
00:36:01.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I mean, was that a major shift for you, like intellectually, emotionally?
00:36:03.94
Chris S.
Then you forgive yourself. You do something you enjoy and you you move on with your life, you know, spending your life obsessing about all the things, how it could go once you can't affect the situation anymore is not going to help anything.
00:36:22.21
Denise Rosales
Like, surrendering.
00:36:24.24
Chris S.
um as As a person with anxiety, having to learn to put some guardrails on my own brain to say, you know, we've done everything there is to do, take a deep breath, forgive yourself, and do something you actually enjoy. You know, congratulations, you made the five phone calls that would have taken a normal person 15 minutes to do.
00:36:50.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right, right.
00:36:51.42
Chris S.
yeah But yeah, up mainly that the things I was seeking through drugs and alcohol I have managed to find through other outlets or deal with in ways that don't involve inching closer to death.
00:37:10.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice.
00:37:10.30
Chris S.
And, uh...
00:37:13.44
Chris S.
That's something I continue to find helpful, even though like Matt, I established a routine of going pretty rigorously to meetings and being involved in the community. And then I moved to be with my partner 1500 miles just before the pandemic hit. So I could stand to stick my head up and see what the local recovery community is like, even though I don't consider myself in danger of relapse anytime soon.
00:37:41.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
Interesting. So you haven't been going to meetings at all since you moved. I i didn't know that actually.
00:37:46.40
Chris S.
I, you know, I, I had just about resolved to figure out what the local situation was like and then COVID hit.
00:37:54.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
Ah.
00:37:54.38
Chris S.
And so that, that, you know, I moved in 2019. So I, I took the job I had in Michigan, picked it up in Washington and I'm sorry.
00:38:04.39
Denise Rosales
Did you do online meetings?
00:38:07.81
Denise Rosales
Did you do online meetings during that time?
00:38:10.57
Chris S.
I haven't, I haven't experimented with that yet.
00:38:12.67
Denise Rosales
Oh, OK.
00:38:13.32
Chris S.
I was a little, I don't know.
00:38:13.39
Denise Rosales
Wow. Nice.
00:38:15.39
Chris S.
I mean,
00:38:17.17
Denise Rosales
Well, that's great for you that you didn't have to, you know, that you did so well.
00:38:19.61
Chris S.
Yeah, it's been a long, I've been, I did I guess.
00:38:25.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I actually didn't know until I was researching this episode that you can go to an NA or an AA meeting online pretty much any time. They're literally always happening at some part of the world in a bajillion different languages and that that is a resource. We'll have links in the description, but that is the kind of resource where Even if you're not in a a regular in those programs, if you just show up and I'm like, I really don't want to drink today, but I also really do want to, somebody will help you because it's like an instant community of people who get it.
00:39:03.82
Chris S.
It is. and I don't lament that I got sober in an analog age, but maybe I'm a little jealous of people who don't have to leave their sofa and can still go to a meeting.
00:39:17.69
Chris S.
I had to get up and get in the car.
00:39:18.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:39:21.35
Denise Rosales
Yeah.
00:39:21.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
00:39:23.63
Matt F.
yeah I couldn't really get into doing online meetings, especially at the beginning of COVID when nobody really knew what they were doing.
00:39:32.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
00:39:32.83
Matt F.
um And honestly, I probably went to my last meeting right around the beginning of the pandemic, but what worked for me was therapy.
00:39:45.24
Matt F.
um First, I did a few years of therapy with my now ex-partner. We did couples therapy either every week, every other week, or every month. And just having that sort of forum with two other people who I trusted to for all of us to process things together.
00:40:05.60
Matt F.
We were actually in a couples therapy meeting when January 6th was going on.
00:40:11.92
Chris S.
Oh geez.
00:40:12.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh jeez.
00:40:13.10
Matt F.
So we're literally just processing the whole thing together, you know including the therapist.
00:40:17.30
Denise Rosales
Oh my God.
00:40:18.73
Matt F.
But now I've had my own personal therapist for the last year and a half minus, or maybe two years, minus a spell where my insurance kind of, uh, didn't work out, but being in therapy helps immensely. The recovery community here where I live in Chicago, it was not really, uh, as open as I would have really appreciated, but
00:40:51.39
Matt F.
I actually, I have a number of friends who have taken from my example and quit drinking within the last couple of years and just having each other to check in on each other now and then is also crucial.
00:41:09.08
Chris S.
You can do it with as little as one other person. All you gotta do is ask them, you know, I need ah another pair of eyes on this situation.
00:41:18.63
Denise Rosales
Mm hmm.
00:41:18.88
Chris S.
is Is what I'm thinking crazy or am I on the mark? You know, and sometimes that's your sponsor, doesn't have to be, but you know, we all have to look to one another for support, I think.
00:41:33.13
Matt F.
Everybody can use a set of ears to listen when you're in pain.
00:41:33.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and yeah, let's actually get into that a little bit.
00:41:33.32
Chris S.
That's...
00:41:35.95
Chris S.
Yeah. Yeah.
00:41:40.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
Um, because yeah, if you have internet access and you can get to like a zoom, you know, you you're tech savvy enough to do a zoom meeting, that's awesome.
00:41:51.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
But I mean, not everybody is, and I think it's. It's important that like some people their family sucks and Maybe all of their friends are still using it. So they need all new friends Um, I know that like at one point I got super depressed because I lost my job and I was just feeling like a big useless nothing.
00:42:18.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I started volunteering. I went down to the the overnight shelter and took the little training class and I was taking the, basically everybody else that was taking the class had been caught driving drunk and they were required to do community service.
00:42:27.13
Denise Rosales
Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:35.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that's why they were there. So.
00:42:38.63
Denise Rosales
How I met a lot of my friends growing up.
00:42:38.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
So yeah, so I bet all these Yeah, yeah they Yeah, well
00:42:43.02
Matt F.
You know, it turns out you can do community service even when you're not court mandated to do it.
00:42:48.85
Denise Rosales
Crazy.
00:42:49.53
Matt F.
You could just do it for like your own spiritual enrichment and for like, I don't know, the better good of other people and humanity.
00:42:56.95
Denise Rosales
ah
00:42:57.73
Matt F.
Weird.
00:42:59.35
Chris S.
when Wednesday and I have both worked retail for multiple decades, I'm assuming. But since I moved, I got a job as a librarian, and that is some of the most fulfilling work I have ever done.
00:43:14.30
Chris S.
You know, you get a little catch in your throat when you're signing someone who's six or seven years old up for their first library card.
00:43:15.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, it must be.
00:43:23.92
Denise Rosales
Oh.
00:43:24.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
00:43:25.95
Chris S.
But ah definitely, that They have craft programs, they have game nights, you know, anything you can do to put it in front of yourself rather than the option to drink.
00:43:36.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, your local library, I mean, it's a free resource.
00:43:38.17
Denise Rosales
Well.
00:43:41.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Anyone is allowed to be there.
00:43:41.71
Denise Rosales
Yeah.
00:43:42.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's one of the few places you can go where no one expects you to spend money.
00:43:43.17
Chris S.
It's without having to buy anything, exactly.
00:43:45.41
Denise Rosales
You can even get movies, can't you?
00:43:46.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:43:48.05
Denise Rosales
You can even get movies nowadays.
00:43:48.90
Chris S.
and
00:43:50.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep. Yep, well in my library they have little meeting rooms and you you can use their computers.
00:43:55.73
Denise Rosales
huh Right.
00:43:56.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
like I know people that only have a job now because they were able to go down to the library and use it to apply. So don't discount your local library as a source of community and entertainment and utility.
00:44:10.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
i mean Yeah, because like Chris was saying, there there are libraries that teach all kinds of different things, just drawing classes. I know when I was a kid, our local library had movies on Saturday and it seemed like every month they would show that Bakshi version of the Hobbit and then afterwards there'd be some kind of craft or something that was like Hobbit related.
00:44:31.51
Denise Rosales
No, it's fine.
00:44:31.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
But even if you don't like Hobbits, yeah, library, that's a thing. And volunteer work in general, I don't like to push church on people, but if you are looking for a network of people that are generally doing volunteer work, local churches are are down with that, and they'll tell you that there are homebound people who could use some company. There are ah animal shelters that seriously need people to come in and cuddle the animals and spend time with them.
00:45:02.04
Matt F.
Yeah, absolutely.
00:45:02.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, so not only are those great things to do, but you will feel better.
00:45:03.00
Denise Rosales
I know.
00:45:07.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
It will give you a sense of accomplishment every time you help someone. Who is it?
00:45:12.90
Denise Rosales
It's funny because like, and I don't suggest this for anybody else, but when I quit drinking, I was actually, I had just started network i'm network marketing company.
00:45:13.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
it
00:45:22.53
Denise Rosales
I'm not going to name the name, but looking back, yes, it was a cult. But while I was in it, I went to all of the events because I had the extra money because I was selling it. And on top of that, I wasn't spending it on alcohol.
00:45:34.09
Denise Rosales
So it was one of these events. I got to see like Jay's shadow speak, you know, um Ed, my light, like all of these people. in person, I got to see speak online and the people that I surrounded myself with during those first two years of sobriety were all positive minded. They were all journaling. They're all doing their daily meditations. We were checking in with each other. And then when that world collapsed, it was like this huge eye opening thing that happened to me where all of the friends that I had known that helped me through early sobriety were gone. They weren't real friends at all. And it crushed me. And this was just last year.
00:46:11.06
Denise Rosales
And that's when I, you know, found my local group and. You know, I can't say that enough that you have, it helps to have people who get it because what we do, not only do we meet up for coffee, but I've lived in Maryland for like 12 years.
00:46:23.33
Denise Rosales
And the first time I ever went hiking during the fall, which I love was last year because of these ladies, because I didn't get out.
00:46:28.90
Chris S.
and Depending on how long we all live, I think we all lose and rebuild our personal community a number of times.
00:46:30.62
Denise Rosales
I didn't do anything.
00:46:36.47
Chris S.
And especially going from using to sobriety, that's sometimes many people's first big jump into losing one community and having to build another.
00:46:37.27
Denise Rosales
Oh yeah.
00:46:47.56
Denise Rosales
I love it because they're they're some of them are local. So Frederick is a wonderful area. And so we're doing new things together all the time. Like we did somatic yoga therapy together.
00:46:55.45
Chris S.
Yeah.
00:46:57.26
Denise Rosales
Like we're looking into doing a rave room.
00:46:57.29
Chris S.
it's it's about
00:46:59.90
Denise Rosales
yeah
00:47:00.23
Chris S.
you know
00:47:01.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, that's a really important thing to note though is that there is a mindset among addicts and and even people with just mental health issues and then they start taking meds or whatever of like, okay, I did the thing.
00:47:16.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
I got sober. I'm taking my medication. I'm doing all the right steps. Why do things still suck? You know, or why do I still have to go through hardship?
00:47:23.97
Denise Rosales
It's a journey, you know?
00:47:27.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that's, that's a thing that, can be cuz you know that like the pink cloud and everything and you're you just you're feeling really good for a while but then something happens and it can really knock you back because you get into this mindset of like alright from here on out everything's gonna be roses and man it's not that's not how life works so
00:47:33.23
Denise Rosales
ha
00:47:40.23
Denise Rosales
Right.
00:47:49.83
Denise Rosales
right And what I tell people all the time is like, it's not a one and done thing.
00:47:52.33
Matt F.
i think
00:47:56.16
Denise Rosales
It's a daily practice to love yourself. It takes like the first hour of my day is walking my dog, listening to a positive podcast, coming back and reading and then journaling and meditating.
00:48:09.00
Denise Rosales
And that's like my world before I let anybody else in. And that's really important to me. And I feel like if more people did that, a lot more people would have patience.
00:48:17.07
Matt F.
I think it.
00:48:20.80
Matt F.
That's a pretty incredible way to start your day.
00:48:21.04
Chris S.
well
00:48:23.02
Matt F.
I know for me, the the routine of having my sweet little dog need to get up, do her business, eat her food, and make sure that I you know move from the bed to the couch to start working, it's it's good to have motivation that's external, but at the same time, internal motivation of like, okay, so
00:48:22.93
Chris S.
yeah
00:48:30.04
Denise Rosales
oh
00:48:44.62
Chris S.
Well, yeah.
00:48:49.87
Matt F.
We didn't get the desired outcome with whatever this is before me. What am I going to do about it? Am I, you know, am I going to do nothing about it? Is there something I can do about it?
00:49:01.22
Matt F.
And once you kind of identify what you can do, what you can't do, it's the, it's the serenity prayer, you know, uh, ideally.
00:49:02.06
Denise Rosales
. . . . .
00:49:14.41
Matt F.
through recovery, you kind of regain the wisdom that you might have shed when you were sick and just covering all your problems with this like self harm. So it's I'm sorry, I just lost my train of thought.
00:49:35.99
Denise Rosales
I do that all the time.
00:49:37.68
Matt F.
Yeah. And that's just it. There's nothing wrong with that. Like I still love myself.
00:49:41.22
Denise Rosales
Nope.
00:49:42.23
Matt F.
I still know that I don't have to be a perfect person. I don't have to be the pillar of my community. If I'm a member of my community or if I'm trying to do the best that I can every day, that's got to be good enough.
00:49:58.25
Matt F.
And
00:49:58.24
Chris S.
you know no no one is perfect but definitely the the journey toward not hurting other people starts or at least can start with not hurting yourself you know and uh take a deep breath try and meet people where they are and uh you know do what you can not to lash out you know yeah go yeah
00:49:58.74
Denise Rosales
I think sober people overall are just more genuine.
00:50:08.89
Denise Rosales
Yes.
00:50:09.28
Matt F.
It should certainly, absolutely start that way.
00:50:21.53
Denise Rosales
go of control Yeah
00:50:21.64
Matt F.
the But also, don't don't lose sight of what you love. if you If you love your family, if you're close with your family, then embrace your family whether there you know if you can, of course. I i have the misfortune of being thousands of miles away from My family and so I have to kind of lean into my other relationships a little bit more But also i I know what I love and I know what makes me happy in the face of fear, you know, and that's music that's Spending time reading a book sometimes it's reading things that make me uncomfortable reading
00:51:08.42
Matt F.
things about, you know, how, how we got to this terrible place in the first, you know, in the first place.
00:51:13.99
Denise Rosales
Mm hmm.
00:51:15.26
Matt F.
And you, you don't want to lose sight. That's, I think my biggest takeaway for, from the last two weeks is I can't lose sight of what makes me happy, what makes me human and
00:51:28.61
Chris S.
You're still allowed to love things, definitely. We all are.
00:51:31.40
Matt F.
You're still allowed to acknowledge, and you know as long as we as long as we have the chance to find joy, we we have to.
00:51:31.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:51:31.52
Denise Rosales
Yeah, it all starts within ourselves.
00:51:45.05
Matt F.
Joy is kind of an act of rebellion sometimes.
00:51:45.33
Denise Rosales
Yes.
00:51:48.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, at this point.
00:51:48.31
Denise Rosales
The intention is to feel good.
00:51:52.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
So.
00:51:53.47
Denise Rosales
That's a bene are not Brene Brown. I forget who said that, but yeah the intention is to feel good. That's every decision that you make. Your intention is to feel good.
00:52:03.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
words to live by. I like it. So let's talk a little bit about things we want to avoid because I know we mentioned avoiding news and um Certainly avoiding toxic people and things that are triggering.
00:52:22.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
Um, what, what else are you guys about? Like I'm spending way less time on the internet talking to people than I used to. Cause I can't fucking stand it. And I, I'm so angry at people who voted against our happiness and safety and now are like, what the economy, blah, like bitch, I would have bought you some fucking eggs if that's really
00:52:33.73
Denise Rosales
Yeah.
00:52:40.05
Denise Rosales
Mm-hmm. right
00:52:46.79
Matt F.
i I am a very online person, as they would say, and the most gratifying and satisfying thing that I've done for myself in a long time was to deactivate my Twitter and to and to throw the app away.
00:52:47.69
Denise Rosales
yeah
00:53:00.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice.
00:53:01.28
Denise Rosales
Yes.
00:53:03.83
Denise Rosales
Mm hmm.
00:53:05.63
Matt F.
Um, and I, you know, I joined, I joined blue sky a little while ago, but that's been picking up a lot of momentum.
00:53:05.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah,
00:53:11.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah it has.
00:53:11.54
Matt F.
And, and the thing about it is when I, when I go onto that app, I'm not really. Driven to be there for more than a few minutes at this point.
00:53:23.28
Matt F.
There's not this constant sort of flood of shit that. holds you in in that grip of like, Oh, I gotta I gotta to see what else is gonna make me mad. And so it's been a lot easier for me yet put my phone down, like,
00:53:39.74
Matt F.
Pay attention to one thing at a time, I say to myself. Instead of having an episode of TV and I'm on my phone fiddling around with you know trolls or something, being able to put my phone like far away from me and know that if anyone needs me, they will call twice.
00:53:59.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah i'm making liberal use of my do not disturb setting these days and i am the better for it remember when people used to buy ringtones you'd spend money so you could have a cool ringtone and now it's like oh my god my phone made a noise what the hell is happening
00:53:59.64
Denise Rosales
hi
00:54:05.36
Denise Rosales
Well, my ringtone is never on.
00:54:10.35
Denise Rosales
Nobody yeah, yes Yes But
00:54:19.16
Matt F.
Yep, that's so funny.
00:54:20.09
Denise Rosales
when I first when I first got so like the first day my husband was like, you know No alcohol in the house anymore and he was very supportive of the whole thing um And even I think one of the kids had a birthday It must have been yes.
00:54:33.91
Denise Rosales
It was my daughter's was in July. Um shortly after I got sober and he told everybody no alcohol because Of course, we would usually have alcohol because of my in-laws. And somebody showed up with alcohol and he said, nope, put it back in the car.
00:54:47.17
Denise Rosales
And I think they ended up leaving because they got annoyed about it. But that's one thing to really avoid, you know, no alcohol in your house. And hopefully you live with somebody who's supportive of your decision.
00:54:58.30
Denise Rosales
It got to the point where I think my husband had like maybe two hangovers since I've been sober and he's the type of guy who can drink one and stop. like But both times I felt kind of self-righteous in my own way. Um, but he doesn't drink anymore. So he realized, yeah, this is not, you know, not that I have a problem. He just hasn't had a drink in life. I made one drink in the last year, but I've said no to many invitations in early sobriety. If you feel like you're going to get triggered, like I had an invitation for a friend who had her birthday party that November. So like six months later, and it was at a bar.
00:55:36.29
Denise Rosales
And it was on a cruise, all you can drink and food.
00:55:38.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, wow.
00:55:39.44
Denise Rosales
And I was like, yeah, there's no way I can attend that. And she was like, you know, and it was like expensive. And I'm like, well, I'm sure that's for the alcohol, right? And I was like, yeah yeah, I don't trust myself just yet.
00:55:50.83
Denise Rosales
And some friends will get it. Some friends may not. And some invites may get just lost in the, you know, in the process because some people may not even know how to deal with your sobriety.
00:56:01.98
Denise Rosales
And that was a hard pill to swallow, but
00:56:04.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and when you have friends that are also using a lot
00:56:08.85
Denise Rosales
Mm hmm.
00:56:09.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
People do get very threatened by someone saying, well, how could you have a drinking problem? We drink the same amount. Well, yeah.
00:56:15.79
Denise Rosales
Especially when I was usually the last one standing and here I am putting, you know, like people a lot of people are like WTF.
00:56:17.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
We do.
00:56:21.25
Matt F.
I think that was my My hospitalization was a wake-up call to more than one of my friends because they were like, well, wait a minute.
00:56:32.50
Matt F.
I drink just as much as he does.
00:56:33.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
Uh-huh.
00:56:34.30
Matt F.
what ah There's nothing wrong with me. That was actually something I went through before I got sober, too, was one of the one of the people I've played music with for 20 plus years.
00:56:42.26
Denise Rosales
Oh, yeah.
00:56:45.08
Matt F.
He got sicker than me but before I did. He was in the hospital for like three months, definitely almost died.
00:56:49.20
Denise Rosales
Well.
00:56:51.71
Matt F.
and the whole time, I was like, well, I am definitely on my way to that.
00:56:58.67
Denise Rosales
Never me.
00:57:00.25
Matt F.
i ah debt i In one part of my head, I said, that's where you're headed. And the other part of me is like, but I'm not there yet. So let's ride the wave.
00:57:09.29
Denise Rosales
Yep.
00:57:10.82
Matt F.
But
00:57:11.53
Denise Rosales
How much can you take?
00:57:14.04
Matt F.
It's it's become easier for a lot of my friends to stop drinking when they frame it instead of as like, I'm quitting this bad habit. It's just like that.
00:57:26.65
Matt F.
There's so many other things that you could do besides drink. You could literally just drink water and go.
00:57:33.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm.
00:57:33.73
Denise Rosales
I like to ask people, how does it benefit your life?
00:57:37.30
Matt F.
Exactly. It feels good for exactly two drinks.
00:57:41.95
Denise Rosales
Yep.
00:57:42.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
00:57:42.39
Matt F.
and that it's awful.
00:57:44.23
Denise Rosales
And you're just tasting it.
00:57:44.38
Matt F.
And then that awful goes for the next 12 hours until, yeah, until you can get your next fix. And it's, sometimes it can be, you know, and an impossible thing to not do something, but eventually it's a lot easier to not do something than you might realize.
00:58:08.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
Um, I want to get into a little bit about how to tell when you might need some help with your drinking. And I want to frame it in terms of like, well, with depression, you know, like clinical depression, there is often a question of, well, are you clinically depressed or are you reacting appropriately to the world in which you live or to what your life situation is?
00:58:18.49
Denise Rosales
Or because you're adjusting or because you're adjusting a depressant
00:58:33.54
Denise Rosales
or because you're adjusting or because you'regesting it
00:58:38.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
h but i mean the ah
00:58:40.67
Denise Rosales
Yeah, you know, because I mean.
00:58:42.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
like it's It's reasonable when you find out that your country has been handed over to rapists and fascists to say, I think I would like a drink. I would like to relax and have this drink and see if I can calm down a little bit. like That's not unreasonable.
00:59:00.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
why
00:59:00.83
Denise Rosales
Right. But I like to I like to tell people that, you know, that's not really technically relaxing. And there are other ways to help with the stress that's not going to make you feel like shit tomorrow.
00:59:12.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
So how do you know when you're drinking is is problematic? Like, I know that there are like, you know, if you if you look online, there's a list of things, you know, are you missing work?
00:59:23.55
Denise Rosales
Well, if you're questioning it,
00:59:23.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
Are you acting like an asshole? See, that's what I would say. If you're questioning it, then already, then then
00:59:29.51
Denise Rosales
then you may have a problem.
00:59:31.37
Matt F.
Yeah, if you think you might have a problem, you probably do.
00:59:31.38
Denise Rosales
If you're trying to control your drinking, it's already controlling you. So, you know, because I, you know, I've done it all.
00:59:35.87
Matt F.
Exactly.
00:59:39.74
Denise Rosales
I tried to quit millions of times. I tried to, I'm only drinking on weekends. I'm only drinking when we go out to dinner. I'm only doing this. I'm like, it none of it works because the alcohol is still in your system.
00:59:51.38
Denise Rosales
It takes at least three weeks for your body to start functioning properly. after alcohol, three freaking weeks, your gut starts becoming better. Like think what that does to your body and physically and mentally.
01:00:05.89
Denise Rosales
It makes you feel like crap.
01:00:07.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
So let's say I'm a person, if if i'm if yeah if I'm questioning whether or not i have ah I'm drinking inappropriately or if I'm on the the verge of an alcohol problem, what is my first step?
01:00:08.28
Denise Rosales
That's why like I keep telling people like, go ahead, sorry.
01:00:23.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
What what do I do about that? Chris, what did you do?
01:00:26.85
Denise Rosales
Well.
01:00:27.76
Chris S.
um Well, ah someone one close to me suggested I enter treatment, and after some number of months feeling miserable, I agreed to try it out. I don't recall if it was dual diagnosis like yours. It it may have been.
01:00:52.31
Chris S.
the
01:00:54.80
Chris S.
Yeah, therere um I guess I was already somewhat experienced with therapy. But you know there at the time, they were big on, they wanted to just start going to meetings.
01:01:10.52
Chris S.
And there are always, I think, people there you have to sign the little sheet for because they have to prove to the court that they went to a meeting.
01:01:18.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm. Yes. Yeah.
01:01:21.75
Chris S.
but um
01:01:28.14
Chris S.
That's what I did was try it as hard as I could to find my community, the people who were going to care the same way I did or look at the program the same way I did. But to find people I didn't mind spilling my guts to and whose advice seemed to ring a little bit true. And it like I have mentioned before, I think it all boils down to finding myself another pair of eyes on situations where I was unsure whether what I was doing whether that's a doctor or a professional ah mental health just get someone else's opinion someone you trust not someone who's gonna manipulate you or abuse you but ideally someone with your best interest in mind and say hey
01:02:25.83
Chris S.
Do you think I need to adjust what I'm doing and think about their advice? I don't know. How else to frame it other than that?
01:02:35.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, that that's that's good advice. i mean i'm I'm really fortunate because I live with someone who sees me exactly as I am and yet still likes me for some reason. um But I always ... I could say, hey man, have I seemed manic to you or have I seemed ...
01:02:55.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know Whenever I can't get a clear picture of myself, I live with someone who can give that right back to me. And I realize that lots and lots of people don't have that. But it is so important to have at least one person that you trust who can objectively observe and and tell you what they're seeing.
01:03:19.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it it doesn't even necessarily mean that they're going to be completely right because nobody knows 100% of what goes on inside your mind. But just having a small community of people who see you the way that that you really are and that know you and understand you, that's huge. That is huge. So so what happens if you don't have that?
01:03:43.99
Matt F.
I think that's when you have to reach out to SAMHSA, honestly.
01:03:49.73
Denise Rosales
That can get really lonely I mean honestly that I didn't realize until I got sober how huge the online community is especially Instagram like you can go to Instagram and put in the search for our sober and all of these people will show up with great advice great and they all
01:03:50.31
Matt F.
It can. um
01:03:57.38
Matt F.
i just know
01:04:14.09
Denise Rosales
like all follow each other. It's like this huge big like world that I had no idea. And like I said, like Facebook is there a wonderful resource too. There's a lot of Facebook online groups that do, they actually do like meetings online on Facebook, like Facebook live type thing. um And that was helpful. But if you want to find local people, if you want somebody to like, you know, talk to,
01:04:38.65
Denise Rosales
I mean, like I said, when I did the, when I was trying to find local friends around here, cause I knew nobody in Maryland yet. It was, I did, you know, sober girls in Maryland. And that's how I found people and having them even online until we actually met was great because we all have social anxiety. We were all addicts. And it's just so funny when a new person comes, it takes them like an hour too late because they're hesitating on kind.
01:05:05.73
Denise Rosales
But it's like, it's just our friendships are just so much more genuine, because everybody's listening. You know, like, it's not that push and pull of, you know, um are you going to remember the story that I'm telling you today, tomorrow, like, and there's some comfort in that as well. But I suggest like going to Facebook and actually like searching like sober groups in your area, or even just the online generalized ones to see if you can Find the the meetings if you'd like to get online.
01:05:38.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice. That yeah, that's great advice. and Am I anything else guys? Okay, cool. Cool. Well, you know what, I want to talk some more about media because I like doing that. And I want to hear from you guys. What are the things that you watch or read or listen to, to get you through your toughest moments, things that put you in the mood that you want to be in? Chris, do you want to go first?
01:06:09.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
Maybe not.
01:06:12.35
Denise Rosales
Oops. Well, I loved a book, You Are a Badass by Jen Centiero.
01:06:14.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:06:19.58
Denise Rosales
I highly suggest you get it on Audible because her voice and her comedy is just freaking, and I've been found like laughing like during my walk, laughing my ass off because of her, her ways of putting things, but it's a good self-confidence book and makes you feel like you just feel empowered.
01:06:20.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
01:06:38.29
Denise Rosales
and you really need that type of positivity input when you're sober. And that's the type of media that I try to soak in when I'm really down about myself.
01:06:49.78
Denise Rosales
She always puts me in a better mood, that book.
01:06:51.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
Cool. Cool. I love that. do what What do you watch? Do you got a ah particular, like, you know, I was sitting here like, I seriously, I'm like, you know what?
01:06:58.34
Denise Rosales
um i Well, I watch like serial killer dramas or documentaries, a law and order.
01:07:08.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
She strikes me as a Dexter type. I wonder if she's a Dexter type.
01:07:11.75
Denise Rosales
Oh, yes.
01:07:14.75
Denise Rosales
Love me some Dexter. Yes.
01:07:16.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, it's it it can be very comforting to stream like the same shows a lot, because you know what's going to happen so you're not going to get sideswiped even if there's character death or something, you know, because you've seen it before it's coming up.
01:07:21.51
Denise Rosales
Yes.
01:07:30.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
um But ah I actually, we watch Die Hard and that's, I'm not really an action movie fan, but I was really in the mood to watch a very bad person get severely consequences. I really wanted just to watch a villain get what was coming to them.
01:07:49.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
and and it's it's
01:07:50.25
Matt F.
It's so cathartic.
01:07:51.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
It is.
01:07:51.93
Denise Rosales
Yeah.
01:07:51.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
And the thing is that that movie is about a scrappy guy who just got thrown into circumstances that he was in no way prepared for.
01:07:57.36
Denise Rosales
the yep
01:08:01.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, you know, like like Finn and that one Star Wars movie, he's just like, well, I guess this is what we're doing now. And and it all works out.
01:08:12.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, you know, Bonnie Bedelia is like, oh, yeah, he's not so bad. So, yeah, I
01:08:19.70
Matt F.
He's not so bad until the sequel.
01:08:22.85
Denise Rosales
yes
01:08:23.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I mean, you know, Bruce Willis.
01:08:26.09
Denise Rosales
I mean, I'm always down for a good shit's freak though. You know, I've watched that from beginning to end, like at least 10 times. Um, that's my comfort show. So if I need background noise or whatever, that's always a good show to watch.
01:08:35.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice, nice.
01:08:37.50
Matt F.
Yeah. there's
01:08:38.32
Denise Rosales
There was just actually, actually there was um a series, I forget the girl Penny from Big Bang Theory was in it and I think it was like flight agenda, but it was a series about her drinking.
01:08:49.24
Denise Rosales
And if you're early in sobriety, you may get triggered, but it, did the perfect depiction of somebody who suffers from alcohol alcoholism.
01:08:57.86
Matt F.
I'm glad that you brought that up Denise because that's actually, that's been kind of a weird thing for me in my recovery is that show was incredible. The movie The Girl on the Train, same thing.
01:09:08.42
Denise Rosales
Yeah.
01:09:11.95
Matt F.
Emily Blunt struggling with fall down blackout drunk. Watching episodes of ah and intervention has been very cathartic for me, watching other people go through the same things, because it's it kind of gives you a space of empathy,
01:09:32.24
Matt F.
while being far enough separated from it. It's like almost like a good reminder too of like, Hey, look, other people can fall down this same terrible rabbit hole.
01:09:36.13
Denise Rosales
yes
01:09:45.59
Matt F.
And now that you are reminded of that, what are you going to do? I'm going to not drink.
01:09:52.17
Matt F.
But I also, you know, I like to to binge on horror sometimes and the, you know, deep philosophy on YouTube to just keep my brain active and then fail videos, you know, watch idiots, watch idiots do idiot things.
01:10:08.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:10:12.30
Matt F.
And, you know, yes.
01:10:12.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, you know what time of year it is, kids.
01:10:13.64
Denise Rosales
And be happy it's not you.
01:10:16.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
Speaking of fails, but this is the time of year that people set their back guards on fire trying to deep fry a turkey. And that is my Black Friday tradition is watching those videos.
01:10:24.80
Denise Rosales
Oh, boy.
01:10:29.29
Denise Rosales
Oh, my God.
01:10:29.90
Matt F.
That's incredible.
01:10:32.08
Denise Rosales
There is a great book that that really helped me feel seen as far as the whole drinking was.
01:10:32.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, no, you
01:10:38.36
Denise Rosales
it It was a book called I'm Just Happy to Be Here. And it's a book about it's called it's like a book on met renegade mothering is what it basically says. And it's about this mother's turmoil of trying to quit drinking, but she gets so vulnerable in this book and admits to shit that I would never admit to anybody else that I could relate to her about. But she like, you know, some like mentions of like her coke days and things that she did and out at the clubs and stuff like that. And I'm like, I would never admit that to anyone. And
01:11:10.35
Denise Rosales
but she makes me feel seen and holy shit, I didn't know anybody else did that. So it's like, it's called quit lit. you know I highly suggest anybody in sobriety, especially early sobriety, you get a book and you like you read about somebody else's journey to help you get through it.
01:11:27.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
nice Nice. I also find that there are certain books that provide excellent coping mechanisms for some of the the and the like peripheral parts of sobriety, like avoiding people or or dealing with family that are not supportive because um Harriet Lerner is is somebody that I read a lot.
01:11:49.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Dance of anger, dance of intimacy, dance of connection. And she basically portrays relationships as a dance. And if you have a person that is doing something unacceptable and you tell them that and they don't change, they don't respect your boundaries or whatever, like you can't make a person change. But if you change the way that you respond to them, then the dance itself cannot continue as it was.
01:12:17.39
Denise Rosales
Oh, nice.
01:12:17.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
And so i I find that really helpful, it's especially just in terms of like, figuring out what's actually happening, like parsing what's going on in these different relationships, you know, like in families when people will be keeping secrets from each other, and then it creates all these weird riffs. And it's just, it's good in that way. And it was helpful to me, I actually got those books about two years before I went no contact with my family of origin and it was probably another eight or nine years after that that I slowly got in touch with like my brother and my godmother but not my other brother and just you know stuff like that so certainly the kind of self-help books that help manage the relationship issues that are gonna crop up when you try to get sober or even attend to your mental health because I know people
01:13:14.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
who were totally black sheeped by their family because they decided to get counseling and and to understand some of the things that went on in their family and like, oh, you know what, this was actually abusive and this was totally dysfunctional.
01:13:21.29
Denise Rosales
Mm.
01:13:27.26
Denise Rosales
Right.
01:13:28.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then the you know you get that whole, oh, your therapist turned you against us or whatever. so it's It's always nice to have a book that helps you reframe things in a way that makes sense to you. So Harriet Lerner, that is who I recommend.
01:13:48.13
Matt F.
I think it's also important to, ah if you're open to like non Abrahamic religious sort of spirituality, I found a lot of use in refuge recovery, which is kind of rooted in Buddhist thought and practice.
01:13:48.26
Chris S.
but
01:14:06.66
Matt F.
And it gave me a nice new perspective as someone who ah grew up in a, you know, Christian fundamentalist environment and is no longer a part of any of that. So I think finding your own personal spirituality or whatever is very useful. And that's a book I recommend, Refuge Recovery.
01:14:31.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
Cool, cool. Chris, you got a favorite?
01:14:35.54
Chris S.
um As far as self-help books go, that's not really my jam.
01:14:40.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I mean, not even help self help per se, but like, I mean, something that that helps you kind of reframe what you got going.
01:14:40.08
Chris S.
I was...
01:14:42.56
Denise Rosales
Okay, thank you.
01:14:48.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like you read the the Ishmael books, the Daniel Quinn books.
01:14:53.05
Chris S.
I have it. I'll have to put those on the list for later.
01:14:55.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
Really? Oh my God.
01:14:57.03
Chris S.
All right, all right, all right.
01:14:57.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'm shocked. Well, no, because I'm, I'm actually shocked because it was Ryan who like seriously nagged me until I read one of them. So I, I just assumed that he nagged you too.
01:15:05.98
Chris S.
Okay. oh it You know, i I've called him once since I moved out here, but yeah.
01:15:11.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
But Oh no, really? Wow.
01:15:16.95
Chris S.
I don't know, he he's got a whole family. I've just got cats.
01:15:21.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, that's true. He does a. I have that that whole family going on now. Yeah, I'll catch you up on all that.
01:15:27.53
Denise Rosales
i um love I love Glennon Doyle.
01:15:28.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
There's dish.
01:15:30.24
Chris S.
Yeah, yeah.
01:15:33.08
Denise Rosales
um We can do hard things. And it's not necessarily a whole book on sobriety, but it does talk about how she got sober personally. And the way she got sober, you know, the whole process.
01:15:45.40
Denise Rosales
I mean, she had to go through a divorce, found out that she, you know, is a lesbian. and had to explain that to her husband and her daughter. I mean, the whole book goes through it, but it really helps you understand how she had to deal with all the family members and all of the stuff that she was going through at the same time. Um, again, it's called, we can do hard things. And it's, I love Glenn and Doyle. She's awesome.
01:16:09.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
sure
01:16:10.29
Matt F.
That was actually my ah mantra coming out of ah rehab was that I could do hard things.
01:16:11.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
Cool.
01:16:15.73
Denise Rosales
Nice. Yeah.
01:16:17.04
Matt F.
And I tell any of my friends who need advice, that's the first thing I tell them is like, you can do hard things.
01:16:24.92
Denise Rosales
yeah You've done it before.
01:16:25.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice.
01:16:26.79
Denise Rosales
You can do it again.
01:16:30.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
So on the subject of reframing, I know that right now I am feeling a lot of anger at my fellow Americans. I'm very fearful about what is going to happen to us and a lot of people that we care about. I'm feeling pretty helpless about a lot of it. um So I imagine that these things are not unique to me. I imagine they're pretty much universal among decent people right now.
01:17:00.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
So how do we use like the hope and the optimism that we talked about before to turn those into, I mean, those anger and and fear and helplessness, like they're basically encouragements to to drink and to to relapse and to not treat yourself as well as you should, because there are things that say, well, fuck it, why does it even matter?
01:17:27.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
so Let's talk about how you make it matter. I know we we kind of talked about some peripheral things, but but how do you reframe those kinds of emotions?
01:17:40.72
Denise Rosales
I mean, you can't really control what's going on in the world. And that goes back to me not being able to watch the news because I did take all of that in and it would cause me horrible anxiety.
01:17:44.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right. Right.
01:17:50.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:17:51.05
Denise Rosales
And it sucks that what is going on is happening, but it's not selfish to say, I can't do anything about it. And my, my peace of mind is more important.
01:18:07.41
Denise Rosales
And it sucks. Like I know there's a lot, and Working out also helps him again, you know, in therapy, obviously, but you know, it's just, you can't control it. You just can't and it sucks.
01:18:19.47
Denise Rosales
So surrendering is huge right now.
01:18:19.99
Chris S.
ah We're not the first society to have ever lived under quasi-authoritarian rule. We don't know what will or won't happen in four years, but
01:18:37.88
Denise Rosales
Yes.
01:18:38.88
Chris S.
ah A lot of the politicians I pay attention to are encouraging people to get involved at the local level if they can, if they're comfortable. ah Run for your library commissioners and your school boards. But ah even if you can't, I suppose, I think the impulse means to make things as kind and compassionate and understanding and welcoming as you can at whatever level you're able whether that's your family or in your church group or just to the limit of your ability make your local environment a peaceful and welcoming place while the rest of the world goes through
01:19:30.68
Chris S.
Whatever it's going to go through.
01:19:32.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
Man.
01:19:32.89
Matt F.
Yeah, I mean, it's.
01:19:33.34
Denise Rosales
Something that helped, and I forget who said it.
01:19:33.33
Chris S.
And that's going to vary depending on what state you live on and ah how big your family is or, you know, in my case, how spread across the country.
01:19:33.75
Matt F.
it's
01:19:47.70
Chris S.
You know, I've got family.
01:19:48.54
Denise Rosales
I forget who said it who said this quote, but somebody told me one day, and it just changed my perspective on a lot of things, because as an anxiety sufferer, as a lot of us are, um worry is a prayer for chaos.
01:20:02.20
Denise Rosales
And that's basically what anxiety is. It's you praying for that chaos to happen because you can't stop thinking about it.
01:20:11.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
Hmm.
01:20:12.47
Matt F.
to the to the same extent as far as getting involved locally. I mean, that goes for your neighborhood, you know, get to know your neighbors.
01:20:20.76
Denise Rosales
who
01:20:21.49
Matt F.
Make sure that you have some semblance of connection to the people who live physically closest to you. you know i have I have a lot of Spanish-speaking neighbors and I've been taken a bit like refreshing and rebuilding my ah ability to speak Spanish so that if nothing else in some sort of ah crisis, I can still try to do my best to help the people
01:20:45.45
Denise Rosales
Nice.
01:20:54.54
Matt F.
in my immediate vicinity. And even if you can't do something as ah rigorous as trying to learn a new language, just getting to know people and building that trust between each other. Because you know it's ah a lot harder to ah to take out an entire block ah rather than, you know, individuals. So you're your family doesn't have to just be the people who are, you know, you're separated from. You can kind of build that community starting next door or in the apartment above or below.
01:21:36.33
Denise Rosales
Absolutely.
01:21:37.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, yeah. Now, was there anything else that any of you wanted to cover? I think we we touched on a ah broad array of issues related to sobriety, but do we leave out anything important?
01:21:51.56
Denise Rosales
I do want to add one thing because it's something that does trigger me. um and It may be triggering to people out there who are just starting their own sobriety.
01:22:01.70
Chris S.
I know I can't see you.
01:22:02.36
Denise Rosales
Sobriety is like your religion. It's personal to each person. Nobody can tell you you're doing it wrong. If you're bettering your life, that's really all that matters.
01:22:15.20
Denise Rosales
and I say this because I, you know, in the past, like a while back, I didn't have a falling out because I was not considered, you know, quote unquote sober because of my medical card, which I think is BS because that's basically what saved me.
01:22:20.50
Chris S.
Ben.
01:22:28.48
Denise Rosales
So I just want people to know out there that don't listen to the people who are telling you what, how to do your sobriety.
01:22:30.30
Chris S.
and How you doing?
01:22:35.35
Denise Rosales
Cause that is all you that's only, you know.
01:22:39.75
Matt F.
you Here, here.
01:22:40.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep, yep.
01:22:41.98
Chris S.
The only thing I think I would tack on to what we've covered today would be that if you decide to try and you fail, you tried. And maybe you can learn something from the trying that will help you carry forward.
01:23:00.35
Chris S.
ah I know that shame
01:23:00.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, relapse is absolutely a part of of recovery for everybody.
01:23:04.43
Chris S.
was a very powerful force, at least ah in my experience of recovery.
01:23:06.97
Denise Rosales
Oh, yeah.
01:23:10.78
Chris S.
The hardest thing a person could do was to come back to the table and say, I'm sorry, I used, please forgive me. And the amount of hand wringing and sobbing and just emotional devastation associated with trying and failing rather than with not trying at all always seemed to me to be a little
01:23:34.10
Denise Rosales
Right.
01:23:35.19
Chris S.
like man you know they they tried they failed and they're back that's amazing we should be celebrating and meanwhile everybody's fighting back tears you know and I think that's if
01:23:43.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:23:43.33
Denise Rosales
And not only that, they're going to start again and with more experience. Yeah, and then the next time they start their Brady again, they're not starting from scratch. they They're starting with experience.
01:23:54.48
Chris S.
If the world is scary and you've decided that sobriety is something you want to reach for anyway, ah I, myself, couldn't be prouder of you. And I want you all to know that as much as that means.
01:24:10.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right on.
01:24:12.18
Denise Rosales
Yes.
01:24:14.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:24:14.14
Chris S.
If the world sucks, it's awful.
01:24:15.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
And anything else, any, any more final thoughts?
01:24:19.25
Denise Rosales
Yeah, the world sucks it doesn't mean you have to your kindness goes a long way There
01:24:21.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah Yeah.
01:24:24.32
Matt F.
Don't be a dick to yourself.
01:24:26.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
01:24:26.99
Denise Rosales
you go All about it
01:24:28.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right. Okay. Well kids, it is time for the Mad Lib. This is my favorite part of the show. And even though the shows we're doing now are much more serious, uh, in the interest of joy and laughter, we are still doing the Mad Libs.
01:24:42.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
So does everybody know how this works? All right.
01:24:46.54
Denise Rosales
No, I mean, I know how Mad Libs work.
01:24:47.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
Uh, okay. Cool. Good. Well, then we'll start with you. Give me an adjective.
01:24:54.75
Denise Rosales
ah Blue.
01:24:58.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
And Matt, another adjective.
01:25:06.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
Matt.
01:25:10.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
Alright then, Chris, give me an adjective.
01:25:10.42
Denise Rosales
He's muted.
01:25:10.80
Chris S.
did he
01:25:13.27
Chris S.
ah
01:25:14.23
Matt F.
Sorry, I didn't realize my microphone was muted.
01:25:16.50
Chris S.
Oh, no.
01:25:17.92
Matt F.
My my my adjective is sweet.
01:25:18.69
Chris S.
Go ahead, Matt.
01:25:21.47
Denise Rosales
oh Dog.
01:25:23.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
Alright, Chris, adjective.
01:25:26.46
Chris S.
Uh, sharp.
01:25:29.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
Denise, noun.
01:25:37.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
Matt, noun.
01:25:41.50
Matt F.
Clown.
01:25:42.50
Chris S.
Uh,
01:25:42.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
Chris, plural noun.
01:25:49.00
Chris S.
tar pits.
01:25:52.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right. ah Denise, give me another adjective.
01:25:59.09
Denise Rosales
um Stunning.
01:26:03.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
Matt, another adjective.
01:26:08.78
Matt F.
Terrifying.
01:26:10.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice, love it. Chris, a noun, please.
01:26:19.52
Chris S.
ah Yeah,
01:26:20.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
You're all going to have nouns coming up, so think of some nouns.
01:26:23.73
Chris S.
shoot. Mount Tacoma.
01:26:34.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right, um Denise, noun.
01:26:39.72
Denise Rosales
Bob.
01:26:42.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, so we had person in room female, which I put as Denise, and there's another one. So I'm putting that as myself. And I am talking to the Mad Lib people about why these things are so goddamn binary.
01:26:56.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Because come on, we we we can do better than that now, I think.
01:26:59.12
Denise Rosales
ye
01:27:01.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Matt, part of the body.
01:27:07.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
And Chris, a plural noun.
01:27:14.24
Chris S.
Earwigs.
01:27:18.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right, Denise, a noun.
01:27:24.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
Matt, a noun.
01:27:29.23
Matt F.
ah Machete.
01:27:32.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
Chris, an adjective.
01:27:43.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
And Denise, a noun.
01:27:52.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Dwarf?
01:27:54.38
Denise Rosales
Yeah.
01:27:55.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right, cool. So that's everything. So now I get to read it. This is called Midnight Movies. Looking for the perfect movie to watch at your sleepover?
01:28:07.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
Try one of these blue party favorites. Sweet Girls. This film stars Denise as a homeschooled dog who goes to a sharp high school for the first time. Will she turn into a mean clown like the rest of the popular tar pits?
01:28:28.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
legally Legally stunning. In this movie, a terrifying sorority Mount Tacoma follows her ex-boyfriend to an Ivy Book school in an attempt to win back his foot.
01:28:43.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
the print The Princess Earwigs. When Wednesse Thermopolis discovers she is a car and an heir to the machete of a spiny country, her entire dwarf is turned upside down.
01:29:02.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, my goodness.
01:29:03.67
Denise Rosales
yeah That's interesting.
01:29:05.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
I just love Mad Libs.
01:29:06.13
Chris S.
I always knew you were a car in the air to a spiny country.
01:29:06.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
I cannot help it.
01:29:09.09
Denise Rosales
I love him.
01:29:10.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
See?
01:29:10.67
Matt F.
Let me tell you what, those all sound better than sequels.
01:29:13.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right? Right?
01:29:15.55
Denise Rosales
yeah
01:29:15.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
Um.
01:29:18.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right, well, I want to thank everybody for being here and sharing your experiences and your expertise. um I hope ah everybody got something out of that. um We are going to have links in the description um for some of the things that we mentioned, 24-hour Zoom meetings and the like. um We do have some more episodes coming up focusing on ah vulnerable populations. We're going to be talking about ah how to preserve your marriage.
01:29:46.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Should someone try to take it from you? um some but Talks about gun ownership for people who are not gun people and why maybe it's not the best idea to ah carry a loaded weapon in your purse all the time, even if you're scared and especially not.
01:30:04.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
So we're going to be getting into some of that stuff. But again, thanks everybody so much for being here and we'll see y'all next week.
01:30:11.10
Denise Rosales
Thank you.
01:30:12.86
Chris S.
Thanks for having us Wednesday.
01:30:13.12
Matt F.
Just ah remember, don't give up.
01:30:15.07
Chris S.
Go ahead.
01:30:16.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, that that's the key.
01:30:19.39
Denise Rosales
no Yep.
01:30:19.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
Do not give up. And even if you give up for a little while, you can get back up and start again. You know, as as long as you're alive, you can do that.
01:30:29.05
Chris S.
Every day is a fresh start, for sure.
01:30:31.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right on. And we're rooting for you. We are.
01:30:35.18
Chris S.
We are.
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