Mentally Oddcast Transcript: Author Bert Edens
An audio version of this podcast can be found here.
Find more from Bert Edens here.
00:00:01.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
You are listening to the Mentally Oddcast. My name is Wednesdayly Friday, and we are sponsored by Sometimes Hilarious Horror Magazine, which you can and should find on Ko-Fi. That's K-O-F-I.
00:00:15.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
With us this week, we have author Burt Edens, and I'm pretty excited about this. Now, if you don't know, Burt is an author and an editor,
00:00:21.51
Bert Edens
to
00:00:24.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
And he currently lives in Arkansas with his wife and one of his two sons. He's got an array of dogs, some of whom believe they are royalty. He's had lots of short pieces published, um nonfiction, horror, sci-fi, and who erotica. Nice.
00:00:40.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, you know, when he's not writing, he's actually a martial arts instructor. He's a software developer and a chef. And ah he's also a proponent of disability rights and the empowerment of women, which, you know, as a woman, I'm i'm into that.
00:00:56.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
So welcome, Bert. Thanks for being here.
00:00:59.26
Bert Edens
Hello. Well, thanks for having me on.
00:01:01.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
It is my pleasure. Um, you know what? I'm actually hearing a little ah background noise. I don't know if you got like a wire hitting something. Like a little scrapey sound, maybe.
00:01:13.45
Bert Edens
I don't know. It's it's maybe.
00:01:16.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. Maybe your mic is a little high. i don't know if it's possible to put a little lower.
00:01:21.35
Bert Edens
Yeah, I'll move it around.
00:01:23.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. Because sometimes I catch my breathing on my mic and it just makes me sound all like Darth Vader-y. Which, you know, situationally.
00:01:31.03
Bert Edens
I get that.
00:01:31.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
um We always like to start by asking guests to talk about the first horror movie they remember seeing. So let's hear it. I'm
00:01:40.72
Bert Edens
Um, that's a good question.
00:01:43.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
already
00:01:43.60
Bert Edens
Um, growing up, I didn't watch a whole lot of horror because primarily because my mom and stepdad didn't really watch that much. So as a kid, you know, I didn't get the opportunity to watch much.
00:01:55.37
Bert Edens
Um, yeah, yeah.
00:01:55.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'm shocked. I'm shocked.
00:01:58.48
Bert Edens
Um, so, oh now books wise, that's a different story, but movies wise, uh, no, I really didn't.
00:01:58.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
I figured you for a young junkie.
00:02:05.07
Bert Edens
But, you know I remember once I was you know out of high school and had my own money, I remember reading an interview with Alice Cooper, and he talked about one of the movies that he really, really enjoyed was Evil Dead.
00:02:17.29
Bert Edens
And so I went and rented that. And that's the first one I actually remember saying, I need to watch this movie and went and watched it. And it's it's still a favorite. You know, it's called classic. It's so good.
00:02:29.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, I'm sorry, long pause. I'm kind of known for not liking Evil Dead because of a lot of complicated reasons. um Well, you know, i'm I'm from Michigan, and the Raimis are, you know, horror royalty here, and I'm not going to speak a word against the Raimis, okay?
00:02:45.07
Bert Edens
Right.
00:02:47.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
I absolutely have no issue with the Raimis. I think it is worth noting that back in the day, a huge part of being able to make movies was having the money to make movies.
00:03:00.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it really, it it reminds me so much that ah so much of what we see in the media is luck and how much the internet has changed that because we see stuff on YouTube now that is by absolute amateurs,
00:03:00.79
Bert Edens
Right.
00:03:12.43
Bert Edens
bri
00:03:16.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
with $15 and an iPhone and they're making things that are at least as, as innovative and, and exciting as, as Evil Dead was back in the day.
00:03:26.14
Bert Edens
Right.
00:03:26.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Plus, you know,
00:03:26.63
Bert Edens
But you know, that's, ah that's the thing that is, you know, I don't, don't have any qualms with any of that because it's all subjective. I mean, the art is subjective. So otherwise I'd have 5.0 ratings on everything I wrote, you know?
00:03:39.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
well, and I mean the, the, the tree,
00:03:42.80
Bert Edens
Yeah. Yeah.
00:03:43.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
that even Even back then, that was ah that was a little much. um
00:03:49.20
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:03:49.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
But but that's you know it's actually really common. That's ah an answer I've heard a few times from people, that their first horror movie was Evil Dead and they loved it and they still love it. So I'm i'm clearly in the minority with this viewpoint.
00:04:01.34
Bert Edens
Yeah. Right. And I may have seen some of the, you know, universal horror or something like that growing up and just not remember it.
00:04:06.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:04:09.08
Bert Edens
But, uh, You know, growing up as a kid watching movies more because it's what was allowed, I typically watch more fantasy and sci-fi stuff, you know, um Star Trek, whatever else was on at the time.
00:04:18.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
who
00:04:20.97
Bert Edens
Star Wars movies came out when I was about 10, started to, and things like that. But books books are a different story, but movies-wise, it took me to adulthood to be able to get what I want and discover all the wonderful Italian and, you know, later Korean horror and all the good stuff that's out there besides what's mainstream Hollywood, you know.
00:04:39.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
yo You certainly don't want to be exposing children to Kyrian horror. My god. Like, why don't you want to eat your dumplings? No reason.
00:04:48.00
Bert Edens
Yeah, no kidding. Nope, nope, nope, nope.
00:04:51.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
So you and I are both movie fans. We're also both avid readers. What do you say to those people that say that movies are lowbrow compared to books, which are more intellectual? Did do you buy into that at all?
00:05:04.92
Bert Edens
Nope, not at all. I, I, I'm definitely one of those, you know, don't yuck someone else's yum. Uh, everybody has their own likes, their own dislikes. And, know, you see some of that gatekeeping sometimes with books as far as, you know, is, is listening to an audio book really quote unquote air quotes, um, reading a book.
00:05:24.44
Bert Edens
And of course it is, you know, of course it is because it's, it's a, it's, you're being picky about what people are doing at the very least it's ableist, you know?
00:05:24.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, gosh.
00:05:32.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
Absolutely, because you have to be literate to read a book.
00:05:32.79
Bert Edens
um
00:05:35.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
You do not have to be literate to listen to one.
00:05:36.07
Bert Edens
Right. No. No. and And like I said, some people, you know you know, if you're visually impaired, what do you do?
00:05:42.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:05:43.08
Bert Edens
You listen to audio books. And I kind of look at movies the same way. You know, it's whatever you like and whatever you want to do to scratch that itch, whether it be a book, a movie, audio book, or, you know, going to a play and listen to doing that. it's It's whatever works.
00:05:57.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, you would never say to someone, oh, you watched a movie with subtitles on it? I guess you didn't really watch it, did you? Like, that's, you know, it it doesn't apply to anything else.
00:06:05.65
Bert Edens
Absolutely.
00:06:08.85
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:06:08.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
um So, okay, so here's my question. If you could make everyone on Earth, presuming it was available in their native language, obviously, if you could make everyone sit down and watch one movie, what movie would it be?
00:06:24.26
Bert Edens
Does it need to be horror?
00:06:25.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, no, any movie.
00:06:28.11
Bert Edens
There's a Korean animated film called Oseam, O-S-E-A-M. And it's about a little boy and a little girl um who are orphans. And they wander off and indian ended up um at a yeah a monastery, a Buddhist monastery.
00:06:47.18
Bert Edens
And there's some complications there. There's some bullying by... um neighborhood kids and things like that because the sister is blind and little boy defends her he gets in fights and it's really heartwarming and at some points it'll actually just absolutely shatter your heart but it's and it's not as common here in the u.s but i just every time i watch that i will ball like a little baby yeah it's very powerful very emotional but also very heartwarming in many ways too so kind of depends on where you're at but that's that's one from left field for you
00:07:12.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, wow.
00:07:21.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
is it Is it made for kids? Or is it a like a family food film?
00:07:24.25
Bert Edens
No, no, I think, I think it's a family film.
00:07:25.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:07:27.55
Bert Edens
I think, fact in fact, it's probably one of those that, you know, kids, I think would look at it and pick up the childhood aspects of it.
00:07:27.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:07:34.43
Bert Edens
But there's a lot more deeper meaning as far as, you know, them protecting each other, taking care of each other, the Buddhist monks taking them in And, you know, their spiritual aspects of it, too. So it's a little bit for everybody.
00:07:48.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh wow. It sounds like one of those things that you watch it as a kid and you like it, but then when you watch it when you're older, you get like all different things out of it.
00:07:58.68
Bert Edens
Right.
00:07:58.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
One of those.
00:07:59.78
Bert Edens
Yeah. Yeah. That would be me with Pet Sematary. Reading it as a teen and then reading it after having an adult with two kids totally hits you differently. And I'm sure that would be one of those same way.
00:08:11.20
Bert Edens
But I discovered it as as an adult.
00:08:11.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
i bet so. Oh my gosh.
00:08:13.66
Bert Edens
Oh,
00:08:14.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow. You know, the audiobook, speaking of, is is great. Michael C. Hall does Pet Sematary.
00:08:19.79
Bert Edens
oh really? Ooh.
00:08:20.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, it's great.
00:08:20.96
Bert Edens
Ooh.
00:08:21.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
Audible has it. Shout out. Sorry, Bezos. I hate Bezos, but frick, I love me some Audible. um
00:08:28.18
Bert Edens
Yeah. Yeah, we can complain about him and still understand it's a way a lot of us put food on the table, too, you know?
00:08:34.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, exactly. and Exactly. um so So getting into the thick of things here, I know that ah you and I share that we live with trauma that began when we were kids.
00:08:49.10
Bert Edens
yep.
00:08:49.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
um What would you like to tell us about that? Okay.
00:08:52.41
Bert Edens
I'm probably not going to get into too many specifics, but, you know, one of the things I've seen a lot with being an instructor, a martial arts instructor, I've seen a lot of that too, where you get somebody who is a, um they have an abusive parent or they have an alcoholic parent or whatever the case may be.
00:09:14.86
Bert Edens
um And you see,
00:09:21.90
Bert Edens
it's It's interesting. You see some them where it's night and day and you see that sometimes them getting to class for the parents, it's a chance for them to get away from the kids. um And for the instructor, you see them there and you see that that's the light of their day, you know, and.
00:09:42.13
Bert Edens
it's, it's hard not to look at some kids and realize what they have go through, what they go through and what they might find that might be an anchor for them um in whatever, ah because, you know, it's easy to get lost in your world and only see what's happening to you and not, don't always see that light. Don't see beyond, you know, your abuser and what's happening to you.
00:10:07.22
Bert Edens
um so
00:10:10.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. I mean, that was kind of my experience. I had, well, I had like most of the abuse that I endured happened at home. So going to school was like, Oh, thank God school.
00:10:17.43
Bert Edens
Right.
00:10:20.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I just, when COVID happened, I just, that was all I could think about are those poor kids that like school was the respite from that.
00:10:27.01
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:10:28.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
And suddenly they were home for just months and months and years. And, you know, and some of them still didn't get to go back.
00:10:35.19
Bert Edens
Right. Yeah. and so and
00:10:35.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
And yeah,
00:10:36.63
Bert Edens
And for some of us, you know, school was just as bad. You know, I was.
00:10:40.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, school bullies, nothing to sneeze at, for sure.
00:10:43.08
Bert Edens
No, nope no, no. And, know, the thing is people look at me right now and I'm six, six, three broad shoulders, 300 pounds. You know, I once kicked my martial arts instructor hard enough to break his cup.
00:10:54.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
oh no.
00:10:55.08
Bert Edens
But no, it it was fine. It scared the daylights out of him at the time.
00:10:59.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah Well, guess.
00:10:59.38
Bert Edens
but But, you know, in school, I was short and scrawny. It was one of the things that, like my my high school football program, i was like 5'6". And so I graduated tall, but didn't fill out until later. So, you know, nerdy, geeky, book librarian at or library addict, all that. I was absolutely a target of bullies, you know.
00:11:18.96
Bert Edens
um yeah And the thing is, I was one who really didn't like to fight back. And so, you know, with most bullies, that's that's the worst thing that can happen because, you know, remember one time after school that had one of the bullies that was actually shorter than me.
00:11:33.86
Bert Edens
But, I mean, he just was, you know, cussing me, calling me all kinds of names and all that, reached up, popped me in the nose, made my nose bleed. I just stood there. So he stood there and punched me in stomach, punched me the nose again and kind of like, well, screw that, and walked off. And he never picked on me again because it was no fun for him, you know?
00:11:51.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:11:52.42
Bert Edens
But it was it was my reaction, my natural instinct. ah you know I remember at one point I had a class that I took through work where they talked about dealing with conflict. and one of the things they talked about is that people, when they deal with anger or or conflict, are either a turtle or a skunk. you know They either go and pull up into their own shell or they spray everybody around them.
00:12:14.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:12:15.05
Bert Edens
And I'm absolutely a turtle. I am one of those that's like, nope, nope, I will avoid conflict. And so that was a natural reaction for me of not hitting back. And so it just took all the fun out of it, you know, and it kind of got to that way with other kids after a while. They're like, well, you know, why pick on Birdie? I don't know. He won't fight back. And, know, they don't get anything out They don't get rise out of me. So they gave up.
00:12:39.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:12:40.62
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:12:40.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
See, with girls, bullying is is different. It's usually more emotional and less physical. Not always, of course. There's certainly bitch slap here and there, but I have a...
00:12:46.76
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:12:49.69
Bert Edens
Sure. Sure. Yeah. And, and, and there was still plenty of that going on. Absolutely. A lot of that, you know, the verbal abuse and calling names and, you know, making fun of this or making fun of that, because like I said, I was short scrawny and a geek or nerd or whatever at the time, you know?
00:13:04.50
Bert Edens
So I certainly got the verbal abuse, but for some reason, the physical abuse stopped after that popped to the nose. Cause it's kind of like, well, okay, whatever.
00:13:12.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I mean, wow, that's... I'm having high school flashbacks. Ew, ew, ew.
00:13:21.24
Bert Edens
Yeah, I think most of mine stopped by the time I got into high school because that incident happened when in junior high. And then it was like before 10th grade, my mom got remarried.
00:13:27.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well...
00:13:30.83
Bert Edens
She's been married five times, if memory serves.
00:13:34.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh my goodness.
00:13:34.15
Bert Edens
And this this this would be husband number three. And we moved from Arkansas to Colorado, which is where he was from. And in many ways, that was one of the best things that happened me because I wasn't. my brother's little brother, you know, I wasn't anybody that anybody knew and I could kind of reinvent myself, you know, um you know, people gave me all kinds of grief about having a Southern accent or whatever, but otherwise it's like, Oh, Hey, cool.
00:13:50.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:13:56.98
Bert Edens
New kid in town. And other than normal new kid in town stuff, I had no other baggage. And that's probably one of the the best things that could happen to him because I could just be me. And then I started attracting people who saw me as that person.
00:14:07.97
Bert Edens
You know, I saw, I have a best friend who's still a good friend now, who started hanging around with me and called himself Ernie. You know, so we had Bert and Ernie all the time.
00:14:14.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:14:16.42
Bert Edens
You know, um yeah I played football, and ran track. I did all the things I would never do before because was too afraid to. So it was very freeing just to be away from everything, you know, get away from all that emotional baggage of those first nine years of school.
00:14:30.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, would think that would have to be different for kids today because you have an internet presence and that will would follow you from school to school.
00:14:37.65
Bert Edens
Oh, absolutely.
00:14:38.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
Whereas back in the day, like when we were coming up, yeah, you went to a school on, you know, two towns over and no one knew hell you were.
00:14:46.57
Bert Edens
Right. Yeah, because that would have been 1982. Would have been when we moved to Colorado.
00:14:50.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:14:51.05
Bert Edens
So it's it's more than a few years ago. But yeah, I mean, i'm I'm glad the Internet wasn't there. I remember too many stupid things I did as a kid. I'm glad there's no video evidence of that.
00:15:01.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
Seriously, seriously. have ah Have any of your childhood bullies reached out as adults?
00:15:08.74
Bert Edens
that i I really haven't talked to too many of them. I've, you know, looked at a couple of them on Facebook to see what they're doing. And I think the closest one I had was um there was a friend that I had in I went to a Catholic school for second through sixth grade.
00:15:24.97
Bert Edens
And there's there's some trauma in there too. But anyway, um yeah the the biggest thing I got from that was by the time I went to public schools in seventh grade, I was bored in classes for like two years.
00:15:38.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:15:38.09
Bert Edens
That as much as I struggled with various things with that Catholic school, we were light years ahead of public schools as far as the education, especially like a math and the English language, I was way ahead. But anyway, one of the, there was a friend of mine that I went to school with at that Catholic school.
00:15:53.47
Bert Edens
And we were the two that were always the readers, you know, always reading, reading, reading. And, you know, they'd have the little poster up with, you know, gold stars every time you read a book and did a book review.
00:16:03.87
Bert Edens
And her name alphabetically was just above mine. And so both of us would get all enough gold stars, went all the way across the poster board. Then her stars would go up the poster board. My stars would go down the poster board. And so it was like, okay, that's cool. And you're really good friend. Probably, you know, I would say first crush.
00:16:20.06
Bert Edens
um And then we got into junior high and she kind of changed a little bit. And, you know, just kind of got in with the in crowd and all that. And a couple of years ago, she messaged me and was just like, you know what?
00:16:31.00
Bert Edens
She says, I have this gut feeling that I really treated you like crap in high school or in junior high.
00:16:36.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
uh
00:16:37.02
Bert Edens
And she said, if I I'm sorry. i'm sorry And i actually I actually told her, said you know I said, I don't really remember anything about that. And I didn't see a reason to put that on her. you know um But I thought it was nice that she felt the reason to say, you know what?
00:16:51.97
Bert Edens
I really feel like I didn't treat him right. I need to i need to get right with that. And so you know I downplayed it. that's There's no reason to tell her, yeah, you're a real bitch to me in junior high. But you know that's probably the closest that she was like, hey, if if I did, I'm sorry. And that's that's cool. you know That's what you want.
00:17:09.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's interesting. Yeah, I've had actually, I'll touch on two similar experiences. I actually started going to Catholic school in seventh grade after being in public school up to that point.
00:17:19.73
Bert Edens
Okay.
00:17:22.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
And so my experience was the opposite. I was not at all prepared. i was ah not on the, even though I read a lot and, you know, I'm not a dumb, dumb, not great in math and that, you know, can spill over into science.
00:17:36.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
But, uh, Yeah, that was a ah it was difficult. Plus, we had religion classes and I was not raised with religion, so I didn't know but anything, really. I mean, I had like a vague idea.
00:17:48.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
of of what you know Catholics believed, but it all seemed so ridiculous. And I remember thinking how weird it was that they were teaching it in school because it was so obviously pretend.
00:18:01.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I was a full-ass adult before I realized that no, a lot of these people are not pretending, that that is sincerely held belief that there's a dude in the sky who gets mad when you masturbate.
00:18:07.08
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:18:11.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
And i just, you know...
00:18:12.23
Bert Edens
Right.
00:18:15.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that was the thing that it it just took me a long time just to come to grips with that. And, you know, but um but also one of my bullies actually did reach out to me at one.
00:18:20.33
Bert Edens
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:18:27.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
But actually, a couple of them have on on like Facebook. But one night, one of my most like meanest bullies for the longest amount of time called me and he was du drunk, like super drunk.
00:18:31.00
Bert Edens
Right.
00:18:40.90
Bert Edens
uh oh huh
00:18:42.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
But it was an apology call. And it was pathetic enough that I was like, dude, kid stuff. I don't care.
00:18:50.62
Bert Edens
right yep
00:18:50.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Which is not true. you know because It's one thing for people to make like an errant comment or something that hurts your feelings, but when it is a years long campaign of meanness with, you know, that I honestly, i don't know how much we should let that go.
00:19:11.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
i wonder if it would be more beneficial to the bullies and to society to be like, you know what?
00:19:11.51
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:19:16.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
Fuck off, you prick.
00:19:18.36
Bert Edens
Yep.
00:19:18.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
You can't treat people that way.
00:19:19.30
Bert Edens
Yep.
00:19:20.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
And you're apologizing to make you feel better, not me. So there's that.
00:19:24.25
Bert Edens
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:27.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
But, you know, I don't want to be one of those bitter feminists. You know how people don't like those. um
00:19:33.15
Bert Edens
Yeah. and you know it's It's one the things, too, that it's, speaking of religion and all that, you I grew up obviously in Catholic school, and today I'd classify myself as either a non-believer or, if anything, closest to Buddhism.
00:19:46.06
Bert Edens
um
00:19:46.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:19:46.82
Bert Edens
That's the reference to Ose-Alam earlier as a movie. But yeah i remember reading one time, and this has helped me mentally with different things, and you know you never you know you can forgive without forgetting. But um remember reading one time in a book by Charlotte Joko Beck,
00:19:57.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:20:02.24
Bert Edens
Um, and she had a quote that says that everybody is doing every moment what they believe they need to do to survive. And as well as things as you kind of think about that and think, okay, you know, most people don't think, look and say, oh, that's a really fucked bird up. I'm going to do that.
00:20:18.25
Bert Edens
You know? Most of them are like, this will help me feel better about myself or help with social standing or help with whatever. And it doesn't forgive them of it, but you at least look it and say, you know what? They're doing what they believe they need to do for for them.
00:20:32.26
Bert Edens
and while that is selfish, that allows me to say, okay, it's not me. And it's easier for me to put that in a box and say, okay, you're a complete dick, but all right, good. Go with it, you know.
00:20:43.53
Bert Edens
But yeah, I like that. Everybody's doing every moment what they believe they need to do to survive. Because that's what we do.
00:20:48.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's interesting.
00:20:49.18
Bert Edens
you know Yeah, yeah. Because that's one's saying. If I do something, and it's what I tell my wife, if I screw up, it's usually going to be a sin of omission and not a sin of intent. you know I'm going to forget something. I'm going to overlook something. I'm going to not consider something. I'm never going to be like, this will really hurt her. you know So, but yeah, that's, ahead.
00:21:09.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
well
00:21:10.22
Bert Edens
go ahead
00:21:10.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
presuming that people are well-intentioned and presuming that bullies, which many bullies are in survival mode. I mean, if if Stephen King has taught us anything, it's that bullies typically go home and get it even worse.
00:21:17.65
Bert Edens
Right.
00:21:23.15
Bert Edens
Right. Yeah. Yeah. But again, and that's saying. Sometimes that is a, I have pent up anger that I cannot give to my father because he's going to beat the shit out of me.
00:21:33.53
Bert Edens
So i'm going to beat up on this kid at junior high, you know?
00:21:35.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right, exactly.
00:21:37.06
Bert Edens
And, and again, Doesn't excuse it, but you can kind of look it and say, you know what? That's got to be hard. what's What's going on in your life that makes you so angry, so hurt that your only outlet is hurting others?
00:21:50.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right. And when you're being bullied, the worst thing that would go through your mind, it isn't even about being hit.
00:21:52.81
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:21:56.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's not necessarily about being made fun of. It's that voice in the back of your head that's like, what if that's true? What if you're right? What if I deserve this?
00:22:06.14
Bert Edens
Absolutely.
00:22:06.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, and if you can get rid of that aspect of it, the rest of it is like stubbing your toe.
00:22:11.80
Bert Edens
Right. Yeah. And then, you know, that, that, that takes time. And sometimes into adulthood, you know, i I, had some, some struggles just from growing up that it caused me difficulties in my first marriage, just because I had to learn how to grow up.
00:22:26.05
Bert Edens
You know, I didn't necessarily know what a healthy relationship looked like.
00:22:29.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, same.
00:22:30.22
Bert Edens
And so I kind of, I kind of had to learn that. And i joke that, you know, um I have two sons from my first marriage and always joke that she was, you know, it's like raising my three sons because, you know, she had her kids, but she also had to kind kind of help me learn to grow up.
00:22:44.54
Bert Edens
And that was, you know, that was that was hard for her, I'm sure. But it it she had the patience of Job and allowed me that time to live and grow. And, you know, I think I've got where I needed to be before she passed away. So that's that's good.
00:22:59.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow. Wow. Now, I am aware that you do not have a mental health diagnosis, even though um you've been impacted by abuse and and trauma.
00:23:13.09
Bert Edens
Right.
00:23:13.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
So do you think that you have symptoms that could be addressed by a proper diagnosis?
00:23:20.90
Bert Edens
um That's a good question. um
00:23:24.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
Thanks.
00:23:24.43
Bert Edens
ah You know, i'm I'm a, I mean, that's what you're there for. um
00:23:27.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:23:28.54
Bert Edens
I think, I don't know. That's a good question. I've, I try to be self-aware. I mean, we aren't always self-aware. I try to be. um And, you know, I've, I've made enough screw ups my life that you almost ended my first marriage through my fault.
00:23:45.83
Bert Edens
And so I kind of had to get a little introspective on a lot of that. And, you know, I don't know if there's necessarily a diagnosis, but it's definitely a, you know, learn through your mistakes and try not to make them again type of thing.
00:23:59.15
Bert Edens
um But yeah, I don't, I don't know. I think a lot of it, you know, i don't know what label would be put on that, that you have childhood trauma that you need to deal with and whatever, yeah,
00:24:07.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, do you have any ah PTSD symptoms, for example?
00:24:13.32
Bert Edens
No, not really. Not really. I mean, there're there's still times that something will come up and be like, oh, wow, where did that come from? But, you know, as far as a physical manifestation of it or anything like that, it's more of a just a thought process of, man, what but or brought that to my head? And, you know, can I fit that into a story or something, you know?
00:24:33.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
well that actually brings me to my next point which is ah your your book The Sting of Hope um now this seems like it must be based on some some things that you've experienced what do you want to tell us about this oh okay
00:24:39.14
Bert Edens
Yes.
00:24:46.67
Bert Edens
Well, it's it's actually a short story. um of Although I am working on reworking it as a novella um because one of the things i've I've gotten some good, it's got like a 4.7 rating on Amazon or something.
00:25:00.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
dope
00:25:01.10
Bert Edens
but But one of the one of the common comments people have said is that they wanted more backstory. They wanted to know wherefore and why's and all that. And it was meant to be a 4,000 word story, whatever. So it wasn't meant to have this long in-depth thing in it.
00:25:17.57
Bert Edens
Um, so I'm working on that, but anyway, um, the gist of it is that, um, the protagonist it's told from his point of view and he's unnamed, but he has a son named dam Tony who has a, an unnamed diagnosis or health problem that he's just slowly declining.
00:25:38.02
Bert Edens
And, um, in the story, the, the wife bails via suicide. um
00:25:44.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
Cool. Mm-hmm.
00:25:44.92
Bert Edens
And so he's got some anger from that. um And of course, you know, he's felt like he's on his own. And there there was some of that with with my first wife, because, you know, she she passed away when my boys were 11 and 14 and 17.
00:26:00.35
Bert Edens
And, you know, even though it was nothing to do with her or her health, there was definitely some anger in there. of You know, why did you leave me? Why am I alone? Why did I? Why do I have to do this? Why did you do this to me?
00:26:12.04
Bert Edens
And so there's some of that that that comes through there. And my oldest, Zach, when he was born, um spent two weeks at Children's Hospital. And because he went into respiratory distress from swallowing amniotic fluid and some other struggles that he had.
00:26:29.43
Bert Edens
And there were times that you know we just we didn't know if he would be around the next day.
00:26:29.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh my gosh.
00:26:34.61
Bert Edens
And at one point, he had where has had a tachycardia, where his heart was just beating very, very fast. And they weren't able to get it to slow down through medication, so they had to stop and restart it.
00:26:48.57
Bert Edens
And, of course, any time you stop a heart, it may not restart. And so...
00:26:52.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, like a cardio version.
00:26:54.64
Bert Edens
Yes. Yeah. And so it's kind of like, you know, you're sitting there and it seems like it's an hour, but it's probably, you know, 10 minutes, you know, sitting in the chapel, just waiting to hear what's going on with him.
00:27:07.31
Bert Edens
So there's that fear of losing him that was in that story, you know, too, because, you know, what father wouldn't do anything? Well, wouldn't say what father, because obviously that's not true, but that was my point is what would you do to if you could save your son, what would you go through? What would you try? And that's kind of the title comes from that, the sting of hope, um because sometimes hope can be dangerous too.
00:27:30.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh yeah.
00:27:31.43
Bert Edens
So anyway, that's where that goes from. But yeah, there's definitely some of that with, you know, having that anger of having my wife pass away ah suddenly. And then also, you know, with my oldest being in an ICU for, you know, two weeks and all that. And then he's had a lot of health problems since then. And, you know, overall health wise, he's good. He's a bit of a butthead, but,
00:27:50.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:27:51.80
Bert Edens
You know, he's 31 now, and we didn't think he was going to survive outside the womb. So, you know, yeah.
00:27:57.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
wow
00:27:59.78
Bert Edens
He's hard-headed like me. he just keeps on plugging, I guess.
00:28:01.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
Man, that that is a victory right there. What a tale. um Yeah, i I actually wanted to talk about the title a little more because of that. Sting of Hope is so evocative, and it just kind of gets you in your chest there because i think everybody has one of those times where you hoped and hoped.
00:28:11.63
Bert Edens
Yeah. Yeah.
00:28:17.44
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:28:22.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
And yeah, I mean, not to overstate the obvious, but sometimes it goes your way and sometimes it doesn't.
00:28:30.42
Bert Edens
Right. And, and, you know, I, you know, I can say that without it being a spoiler, but it's a body horror story and things go sideways. It's just how you tell the story and how it goes sideways. That's what makes it interesting. So
00:28:43.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
I gotcha. I gotcha. Wait, did you send me a copy? I think you did.
00:28:47.91
Bert Edens
I don't remember, but I can, if you want one.
00:28:49.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
You should. You definitely should. Yeah.
00:28:52.10
Bert Edens
Yep. Yep.
00:28:52.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
Me wanty.
00:28:54.42
Bert Edens
Yes.
00:28:54.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, you um you have two children, actually, who belong to different marginalized demographics.
00:28:58.68
Bert Edens
Yes.
00:29:01.88
Bert Edens
Right.
00:29:01.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
um How's that going these days?
00:29:05.06
Bert Edens
Well, it's, it's good. You know, you talk about um trauma and, you know, any, anybody who's a writer sees trauma around them and, and gets ideas and thoughts and such from that too. And my oldest, that's part of that too, because, you know, he's got special needs. He's had a lot of challenges. And so I got to see things growing up and see, you know, there's a very reason I go from zero to a hundred real quick when I hear the word retard.
00:29:31.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, well yeah.
00:29:32.56
Bert Edens
um but But a lot of people use it in a way that is like, oh, you quit being retired or whatever. And they don't mean it to be derogatory toward people with disabilities or whatever.
00:29:44.77
Bert Edens
But most of the time, it's because they don't realize how much that's punching down. you know How much you're saying, you are not this, you're not good, you're terrible, you're not smart, and you're like these people over here.
00:29:49.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:29:56.75
Bert Edens
They don't see the equivalency, but it's absolutely there. And I can already feel, I can already hear my voice going up on that.
00:30:00.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:30:02.33
Bert Edens
But yeah, you know, right.
00:30:03.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, no, I mean, that's it's important. The words that we use matter. And we i I know you don't want to talk politics, but the words that we use matter.
00:30:07.86
Bert Edens
Yeah, absolutely.
00:30:13.86
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:30:13.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
And they matter because, well, it's like Carlin said, people think in language.
00:30:19.33
Bert Edens
Yes.
00:30:19.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
So if you are not cognizant of that, you know, there there are plenty of slurs and that I used as ah a kid and a teen because I didn't know any better.
00:30:26.81
Bert Edens
Mm-hmm. Right.
00:30:28.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, you know, people around me used it. And as a, you know, person with like ADD and autism, a lot of what we do is observe and and mimic because we don't really understand why people are doing a lot of the dumbass shit they're doing and saying.
00:30:38.34
Bert Edens
Right.
00:30:42.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
so
00:30:43.18
Bert Edens
Yep. You do it.
00:30:44.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then, yeah, so you grow up and you say, well, wait a minute, I shouldn't be saying that. Like, i mean, I think it's fine to say, like, the growth of the plant was retarded by the lack of light because that is a reason.
00:30:55.12
Bert Edens
Right. That is different.
00:30:57.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
But if you're if you're actually calling a person that you need to fuck right off, whether whether it it is a person with a disability or whether you're saying it just as as a way to call someone dumb.
00:30:57.47
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:31:03.11
Bert Edens
Yep. Yep. No argument here.
00:31:11.72
Bert Edens
Yep. Yeah. And that all, that includes all the tarred suffixes to throwing onto something um or, or another one that sneaks by a lot of people is short bus jokes, you know?
00:31:15.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh yeah. Yeah.
00:31:21.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. yeah
00:31:23.37
Bert Edens
But anyway, i wasn't say about my oldest is that, you know, good dealing with that because, you know, throughout a lot of school, he was, you know, in a special ed classroom, not in the mainstream and got a little bit around that with junior high and into high school where he would at least be in a mainstream class a little bit.
00:31:39.53
Bert Edens
But, you know I saw a lot of that with, you know, him being called a retard. um You know, I remember specifically one time a teacher called us and she was so mad.
00:31:50.43
Bert Edens
Because one of his classmates told him that they would be his friend if he would lick the bottom of his shoe.
00:31:58.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, what? no
00:32:01.66
Bert Edens
And he he did because he wanted them to be his friend. And it's like, and I was like, oh, and, and it's like, you know, tell my first wife, you you cannot go to the hospital. You cannot go, excuse me. Can't, you're not going to, can't go to the school and beat the crap out of this kid.
00:32:16.54
Bert Edens
Can't go to this home and beat the crap out parent parents.
00:32:18.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:32:19.17
Bert Edens
But the the the teacher did talk to the the parents' kids and super the kids' parents, and they were just like, oh, they're just he's just being a kid. It's like, no, you don't understand. You really don't get it.
00:32:32.46
Bert Edens
But you also, you look at that and say, well, that's why he's doing that because Holmes is like, oh, yeah, that's okay. You can do that.
00:32:39.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I mean, it isn't even about the the actual act.
00:32:39.64
Bert Edens
You know?
00:32:42.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's about the cruelty. Like, what is making this person so cruel, and what do we do about it?
00:32:44.58
Bert Edens
Oh, absolutely.
00:32:47.66
Bert Edens
Right. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. And, but the same, you see that, and there's just countless stories of, you know, i just watched where he can be in a crowd and people look at him and you can see he's different in a way he moves differently. He has gates different, his speech is different. So you can look at them. And, you know, I always joke about it, that as a parent or somebody with special needs, that you have a radar, you can look at somebody and go, I don't know the diagnosis, but they've got one.
00:33:13.87
Bert Edens
You know, I can't really tell what that is, but there's something. And it just, you just immediately click and then you watch and go, Okay. All right. Yeah. You know,
00:33:22.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
i' I'm reminded of the Family Guy episode where Brian dates a girl with Down Syndrome and Stewie says he just says so there's something up with her laughter
00:33:27.87
Bert Edens
I don't think I've seen that one.
00:33:36.89
Bert Edens
Yeah. No. so And then my youngest, they're non-binary. And, you know, here in in Arkansas, you know, we've got good people and bad people everywhere.
00:33:49.15
Bert Edens
um But sometimes, you know, that's that's difficult for him um to be able to navigate that. And I always kind of wonder, you know, when he's going, because he's 30. No, I'm old. This is 31.
00:34:03.38
Bert Edens
Let's see. My youngest is getting ready to turn 29. eight I think. Yeah. Anyway, 28, he is 28. Now I keep waiting for him to move somewhere. That's probably a little more blue than Arkansas.
00:34:16.39
Bert Edens
Um, but you know, he, he navigates very well.
00:34:16.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:34:18.92
Bert Edens
Um, he's, he's good at, um, identifying who he is and what he wants around him. Uh, and he, sort of he sort of surrounds himself with people who are accepting of him and, uh, um,
00:34:32.42
Bert Edens
you know you know, sometimes you have to deal with people who are not. That's part of life. No matter where you are and what out group you're in, you have to deal with people who are in a different group. But he does a really good job. And I apologize. i they They do a good job.
00:34:46.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:34:47.16
Bert Edens
um And I remind him when I when i say something like that, that You know, if i say he, it's not intentional. I'm not trying to misgender him. It's just, ah it's ah it's a habit.
00:34:58.17
Bert Edens
You know, I've got to i've i've got to break the habit, but yes, they...
00:34:58.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, I get it.
00:35:01.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
I get it. I am not great at remembering. Like, I very much want to. It is my intention to remember and and use people's ah pronouns appropriately.
00:35:07.36
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:35:11.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
But i I'm just, my my brain is not always there with me.
00:35:11.65
Bert Edens
Right.
00:35:15.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
course, I went to college with people that have been married for 30 years, and I'm still referring to them with their maiden name.
00:35:18.84
Bert Edens
Sure.
00:35:20.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
So...
00:35:21.15
Bert Edens
Sure. Yeah. But, and that's, that's one of the things that they've said before is that, you know, there's people who will, uh, point to them and say, oh, well, he stressing, he did this and that's an intentional misgendering.
00:35:31.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right. Mm-hmm.
00:35:34.28
Bert Edens
And that's, that's hurtful to me. That is so deep in who he is. They are, then it's no different than demeaning somebody for their faith or for their skin color whatever. It's who they are.
00:35:47.54
Bert Edens
And, um, You know, what's I can't put myself in their shoes, so I can't say, you know, this is how you should or shouldn't feel or whatever. So I just, you know, you validate it because it's important to them.
00:36:00.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and I have never experienced a trans person, like if I accidentally use the wrong term, have them just go off on me.
00:36:09.53
Bert Edens
No.
00:36:09.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because I'll do it and then I'll say, oh shit, I'm sorry. i i You know, and and I think once they see my flustered embarrassment, you know, I hope it's at least...
00:36:18.22
Bert Edens
Right.
00:36:21.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
clear that I'm not trying to be an ass about it, but there are people that will, you know, it's this attitude of, well, why should I, why should I have to legitimize this thing that you do that I don't agree with?
00:36:29.06
Bert Edens
Yes.
00:36:33.23
Bert Edens
Right.
00:36:33.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, well, you know what? You're sitting there pretending to love Jesus. So if we're talking about who's legitimizing what, I won't be accepting your false claim of Christ there, ma'am.
00:36:46.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
00:36:47.25
Bert Edens
Or you get the people that'll say, well, I don't want to use pronouns. And you're like, well, you just did. is a pronoun.
00:36:54.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
Jesus never used pronouns. Jesus walked in and said, I am he.
00:36:59.86
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:37:00.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
that's That's like one of his main things.
00:37:01.83
Bert Edens
Yeah. Right.
00:37:03.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
But...
00:37:04.40
Bert Edens
and yeah And, and that, you know, that goes back to talking about how we were raised and all that.
00:37:04.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, okay.
00:37:08.75
Bert Edens
And I remember with my first wife, there was at one point, but cause at that point when we even started dating, I was at that point to her, a former Catholic, you know, and she's Pentecostal.
00:37:19.58
Bert Edens
So, uh, that was a big difference.
00:37:19.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:37:22.56
Bert Edens
Um, I remember the first time I took her to the church where I grew up in the Catholic church and, she went inside. She's like, she legitimately thought that lightning was going to strike her down then and there.
00:37:32.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
oh my go
00:37:33.13
Bert Edens
But I remember at one point we were over at her parents' house and her father was ah a deacon in the church and he was working on a sermon because it was his turn. And he was trying to remember where a particular scripture came from. And I told him, I said, I don't remember exactly what it was. I said, I think it's here or here.
00:37:53.37
Bert Edens
And he kind of thought about it and he said, well, said, well, let me look. And so I, ah He handed me his Bible and took me about a minute to find it and pointed it back out to him. And it just, his jaw just dropped because he's like, wait a minute, you know?
00:38:05.32
Bert Edens
And I think that got somewhere with my first wife too, because then she was looking it saying, you know, here's somebody who is not claiming a faith, but I have a foundation to at least know what the book says, you know?
00:38:17.38
Bert Edens
And I still will now say that, you know, if if anybody you hear where people are using, you know, using religion as a wit weapon or whatever,
00:38:17.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
sure
00:38:25.92
Bert Edens
My my favorite thing is what I got from the Bible was always love all let God sort it out. And that's that's that was always my take on Anything beyond that, that's not my problem. Love all, let God sort it out.
00:38:40.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, that certainly seems to be Jesus's gist, you know?
00:38:44.74
Bert Edens
but Right, right.
00:38:46.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
and That and, you know, don't be a dick or I will take you to task, which, you know, I'm in favor of that. But I mean, the
00:38:55.35
Bert Edens
Or like what they say, you know, what would Jesus do?
00:38:55.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
the
00:38:57.39
Bert Edens
You know, ah so an option is sometimes flipping tables.
00:39:00.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep. Yep, yep. Yeah, I find um that when I discuss religion with Christians um of of that that stripe, um they're often surprised at that, you know, people that are not Christians have read the Bible.
00:39:19.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
And first of all, most of us have that, you know, not necessarily foisted on us, but we experienced Christianity because it's kind of hard to avoid, you know, every Christmas people get pretty out loud and proud about it.
00:39:19.53
Bert Edens
Right.
00:39:25.17
Bert Edens
Right.
00:39:32.86
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:39:33.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
um But a lot of people say, and and I would tend to agree that if you read the Bible front to back, you You have to wonder how they're basing a whole ass religion on it because it contradicts itself a bajillion times.
00:39:48.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
And ultimately, i i just think if we looked at the totality of literature, that's not one of the books we would pick if if we were starting fresh with no preconceived notions.
00:39:59.02
Bert Edens
Right.
00:39:59.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
There's lots of other books that would make more sense to base a religion on than that one.
00:40:03.92
Bert Edens
No, at the same time, it's, it's so deep in who they are that I look at it and say, okay, you know, that's, that's, that's who you are. That's part of your faith. That's part of your believing. And I can't, you know, you, if, if, if I expect people to validate my lack of belief, then I at least validate theirs as long as they don't use it as a weapon, and you know?
00:40:23.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:40:23.95
Bert Edens
um So, and it's, it's, You know, both of my wives were very devout Christians and I respect them for that. And we did, we both, we both have different foundations of where we think all of this comes from, but we both, all but all of us believe in treating people the right way, you know?
00:40:41.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
who
00:40:41.53
Bert Edens
So yeah, it's, it's, like I said, it's, it's, whether be God or Jesus whatever, but that's my thing is, you know, I'm going to treat people right. And my first wife, she always said that, you know, because people would ask her about that, you know, how could you date a non-believer?
00:40:56.15
Bert Edens
Aren't you worried that, you know, you're going to go to heaven and he won't or whatever. And she's like, her thing was always that, you know, the God I know would not punish somebody for treating people the right way just because he didn't believe.
00:41:09.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice, nice. and My husband actually said something similar because he was concerned.
00:41:14.01
Bert Edens
Yeah. Yeah.
00:41:14.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
He's from a very religious family and they were not entirely down with ah with him marrying someone who wasn't.
00:41:17.39
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:41:22.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
So that was something that we had to discuss and and reach some some conclusions on.
00:41:29.24
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:41:29.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah his His mom actually walked out of our wedding.
00:41:29.52
Bert Edens
and
00:41:31.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
she She didn't see it after coming all the way to to Michigan and from Philly.
00:41:32.47
Bert Edens
Oh, wow.
00:41:36.13
Bert Edens
Wow. Yeah. You know, when when my first wife passed away, there was one of things that I said at the time was, you know, whatever it was she was searching for in life, I hope she found. And because even though it's not something I believe, it was so much a core of her, you know, what what kind of love would that be to say, ha ha, hope you just rot in the ground, you know?
00:41:57.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
right
00:41:58.06
Bert Edens
um And so it's kind of like that same thing, you know, it's like, it's so much of who they are. As long as they're not using it to hurt somebody, I don't care what you believe in. It could be the flying spaghetti monster, ramen, let's go.
00:42:08.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
and
00:42:08.69
Bert Edens
i don't care. As long as you're not using it to hurt somebody, you know, but who you are, whether it be somebody who's non-binary, whether you're you know Buddhist or whether you're an atheist, whether you're a Christian, whether you're whatever, you know that's who you are. And I think people should use it, be able to validate that and have that validated as long as they aren't using it to be hurting somebody else.
00:42:29.42
Bert Edens
you know And unfortunately, there are people in the LGBTQ community who use it as a weapon. you know And sometimes even within the community. you know I hear that from my youngest often where they try to be exclusionary in some way of somebody in the community. And it's like, you know stop that.
00:42:45.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, i was I was horrified when I learned that there were anti-trans gay people. Like, that just shocked my socks.
00:42:50.34
Bert Edens
Right.
00:42:51.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, you know, and I don't know i don't know why I found it so shocking.
00:42:52.20
Bert Edens
Absolutely.
00:42:56.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
But I, you know, just i think just the the simplicity of it was that...
00:42:56.69
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:43:01.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
you're a marginalized group. Why don't you have more empathy for other marginalized groups? And because some people are assholes. It's not like being in a marginalized group makes it impossible for you to be an ass.
00:43:09.32
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:43:13.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
It it just doesn't, you know.
00:43:14.59
Bert Edens
Right. Right. Yeah. it's just like you can be a minority and be a racist. You know, it's, it's, you can be, like I said, it doesn't matter what your in group is. If there's an out group, you can be, yeah you know, hurtful and harmful to them, whatever that out group is.
00:43:30.32
Bert Edens
And yeah, like I said, even sometimes within the same in group, but yeah, I've heard, heard my youngest talk about some trans exclusionary people in his community. It's just like, what the heck, you know?
00:43:41.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
So when we talk about turning trauma and turning life experience into impactful literature, is that something that occurred naturally for you? Is it something that you like pointedly decided to try? How did that come about?
00:43:58.82
Bert Edens
I think it probably came naturally. Um, I remember in in high school, the one i one of the first stories I remember writing that I would call horror, um, as far as not just playing around as a kid and being spooky in high school and my junior year, I wrote a story where, um, a guy,
00:44:22.26
Bert Edens
um after getting dumped by his girlfriend, literally cut his heart out until he died, literally cut his heart out.
00:44:31.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, yikes.
00:44:31.56
Bert Edens
and um And, you know, 11th grade. And mind you, I feel sorry for the poor classmate who had to read that out loud because we were reading each other's stories.
00:44:40.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:44:43.26
Bert Edens
And it was just one of things that, not surprisingly, ah month earlier, my girlfriend of a year had broken up with me. And so there was absolutely, you know I did, I think about at the time.
00:44:52.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh.
00:44:55.36
Bert Edens
No, but you know, when I look back on, I was like, oh yeah, that was it. She broke my heart and that was all in that story, you know? But I also remember that as that story was being read, you know, I was, I was like staring at my desktop. You know, was like, oh geez, you know?
00:45:09.33
Bert Edens
And then I looked around at one point and I saw one of the other girls in the class who looked at me and she pointed at the, at the one reading and then pointed at me like, is that you? I kind of nodded slightly and she made a little heart with her hands.
00:45:19.93
Bert Edens
Like, I love it
00:45:20.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
00:45:21.42
Bert Edens
I was like, thank you. I appreciate that. But yeah, bless her heart. We just passed her on stories and she got that one.
00:45:29.42
Bert Edens
But yeah, I mean, and it and it does. I mean, i've I've got, you know, I know we haven't got into other books yet, but Dead Orphans, my collection of short stories.
00:45:38.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
oh Oh, that's on our list. It's coming up. We're gonna talk about it soon.
00:45:41.17
Bert Edens
Yep. um But branch into that a little bit. Yeah, there's definitely a lot of that. that you know you if you read that, you will see where people are hurtful to each other. I'm a big proponent of, I like supernatural stuff, but most of my stories have people doing evil shit to each other. you know There are enough monsters that we share you know a a classroom, a church, a house, a bed, a work, job, whatever with people that we don't necessarily need supernatural monsters. we're We're capable of doing a lot of bad things to ourselves. And that shows up in the stories too.
00:46:17.69
Bert Edens
So I think that that's that natural transition of, you know, people treat each other poorly. And here's a story from that, you know?
00:46:24.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I totally get that. um I always think it's it's weird when... Like, I assume most writers are working out their own personal stuff in in their literature.
00:46:37.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
You don't want to assume too much, but, like, Anne Rice is is such a quintessential ah example of that because she had a daughter who died.
00:46:39.50
Bert Edens
Right.
00:46:47.63
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:46:47.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
And in Interview with the Vampire, there is a vampire girl who lives forever. And when she was asked about that in interviews, not only did she say no, no connection, but she was incensed that that it was presumed that there was a connection between those two things.
00:46:52.60
Bert Edens
Yep.
00:47:00.60
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:47:04.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
And like my first novel is a total Mary Sue. It's about an abused fat girl who grows up and and kills her mom. So, and and people ask me if it's about me and I say, as far as I know, my mom's alive.
00:47:12.52
Bert Edens
There you go.
00:47:17.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, know, but...
00:47:17.92
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:47:21.17
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:47:21.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
But debt that just, ah that, um the but the idea that it would be so obvious to everyone but the author is, I mean, as as an author, that that's a little unsettling.
00:47:21.33
Bert Edens
It's not a confession.
00:47:31.34
Bert Edens
Right.
00:47:35.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, well what else is in my work that everybody now knows about me that I didn't realize I was telling them?
00:47:35.66
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:47:41.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:47:41.28
Bert Edens
Right. But you know, they also have that, that joke too, about, you know, that, you know, somebody's reading an author's piece and, The teacher's up there saying, well, the curtains are blue because it demonstrates his melancholy and this and that. And the author's like, no, the curtains are fucking blue.
00:47:57.46
Bert Edens
That's it, you know?
00:47:58.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
they're They're blue because I like blue.
00:48:00.02
Bert Edens
They're blue.
00:48:01.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:48:01.37
Bert Edens
Yeah, they're blue because I'm sitting here. I looked up and the plate in front of me is blue. So they're going to be blue. I don't know. But yeah, I mean, they they do. and And, you know, I think you you if you pay attention, if you're empathetic enough that you pay attention to other people, you see those things. You see that trauma.
00:48:18.66
Bert Edens
You know, my wife right now, she she had a special needs daughter who passed away at 12 years old.
00:48:25.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh.
00:48:26.08
Bert Edens
And she passed away before my wife and I ever met, but I see that, you know, i see the, you know, she, she died four days after Christmas. And so, you know, i see the other kids playing and ah opening gifts and how hard that was.
00:48:37.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow, let's tread.
00:48:44.23
Bert Edens
And, you know, just knowing how hard that death anniversary and how hard her birthday is every single year. And she's been gone for 18 years, but it doesn't get better.
00:48:55.42
Bert Edens
You know, you expect, know, You expect to bury your parents. You don't expect to bury a child. And i i can't understand what that feels like. You know, we almost lost my oldest, but it's that's different than almost doesn't count. You know, it's still the trauma, but it's different.
00:49:12.32
Bert Edens
And i have no idea what that feels like. I don't want to know what that feels like. All I can do is be there to kind of share that pain. But that's part of it also, is you look around and you look at the people who are being called retards, or you look at somebody who is being excluded from their community for whatever reason, or you see the pain that somebody is has had and and and, you know, you can't, you know, it that and that doesn't necessarily, it may get better, but it doesn't ever go away, you know?
00:49:42.15
Bert Edens
And I think if you can tune into that and be empathetic, there's there's a lot of depth you can add to your stories from that.
00:49:49.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, empathy, I mean, it's so important for writers to have just that, that you know, empathy and and self-reflection, you know, all that there.
00:49:53.10
Bert Edens
Right?
00:49:58.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Now, one of the things that we ask, with permission, um because we always get consent before we ask this question, but was there a time in your life when you were in legitimate fear of it ending? Yeah.
00:50:14.28
Bert Edens
um There's probably been a few, I mean, there's, there are some times that, um ah again, you know, growing up and having to learn how to grow up as an adult that, you know, I didn't process anger well, um, you know, holes in sheetrock from punching it at throwing things, things like that. And, you know, times it's like, you know,
00:50:41.25
Bert Edens
you're, we're driving somewhere and I'm being yelled at because I screwed up on something and thinking how easy it'd be to just swerve the car into a tree, you know? Um, and things like that, that, you know, i'm not proud of, but I'm proud of the fact that I look at that now and go, okay, that's a different me, you know, that's a me that processed through those things. Um, but, uh, I mean, I've had one time that I know that I'm,
00:51:06.76
Bert Edens
luckily to be ah alive and that's because I fell asleep while driving a car and 80 miles an hour and hit the end of a guardrail, um, about three feet to the right.
00:51:11.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh my gosh. Wow.
00:51:17.68
Bert Edens
And it would have gone into a 30 foot down dry bed, dry river bed. So being asleep, being asleep was good because i was relaxed.
00:51:23.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yikes!
00:51:27.34
Bert Edens
I was a little sore and that was it. And that's considering the airbag didn't deploy. um But, you know, that's one of things that's, that's not in fear of your life.
00:51:33.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow!
00:51:36.38
Bert Edens
That's like, oh, whoa, I'm awake now. What happened? And why am i where I am?
00:51:40.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, i guess, man.
00:51:43.15
Bert Edens
um So m if you snore, sleep apnea is a thing, get it fixed. um
00:51:50.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right?
00:51:51.16
Bert Edens
So, but yeah, I mean, there're there's, you know, there's, that's probably the closest time that I've really looked at and thought, wow, this could have happened and You know, mother tells a story about a time that everybody was swimming at the swimming hole. And I decided I was going to jump into, but I didn't know how to swim.
00:52:06.57
Bert Edens
You know, um she had to.
00:52:07.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, and you were a skinny kid. Skinny kid sank.
00:52:09.51
Bert Edens
Yeah, yeah. So she had to dive in and save me. I don't remember. She tells me about it, but i was like, well, yeah, that probably couldn't have ended well, you know. and
00:52:17.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
00:52:20.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow. Okay. So I got a whole bunch of questions about your work. Are you ready?
00:52:26.35
Bert Edens
Oh, absolutely.
00:52:27.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
Let's start with dismember the coop.
00:52:29.37
Bert Edens
Okay. That is just remember the coop is a charity anthology and it is a bunch of stories, 15, 16 stories that are inspired by the music of Alice Cooper.
00:52:44.02
Bert Edens
And it's a horror anthology. So people were able to take, you a lot of what Alice has done over the years has been horror. You know, uh, he calls it vaudeville, but it works. Um, because that's really all he's doing is he's doing vaudeville.
00:52:56.91
Bert Edens
Um,
00:52:56.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, yeah, it's just dark.
00:52:59.24
Bert Edens
Yeah, it's dark, absolutely. You know, get he channels a little bit of Screaming Jay Hawkins and some other things that he's seen over the years and grew up with and being the anti-Beatles and stuff like that. But yeah, and the whole idea was just, you know, take a story and take a um snippet of it or just the theme of it and create your own backstory and your characters from it and things like that.
00:53:21.38
Bert Edens
And this there's a story, ah there's a song, Alice, went back when he was a group and not solo called Billion Dollar Babies.
00:53:28.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:53:29.29
Bert Edens
And in it, there's a phrase about um dancing around with um a doll or a young girl, whatever, that, you know, I'm so scared your little head will fall off in my hands.
00:53:41.22
Bert Edens
And so I took that literally and thought, well, what would what would that be like? You know, how how would that be a real thing? And even though it has nothing to do with the song, because the song is really all about excess, fame, fortune, excess, and took it about a guy who – um he ends up getting divorced from his wife, um, after she sleeping around, um, and the the wife gets the custody of their daughter.
00:54:10.74
Bert Edens
And at some point he, you know, he just, he goes down in the deep hole, um, life without them and anger and all that. And at one point he comes across a, um, car wreck and, uh, wife and daughter in the car.
00:54:26.08
Bert Edens
And that's what he sees. And that's what he, so he takes a little girl whose neck is sideways and brings her home because that's his daughter. And of course it really wasn't, but it's basically the story goes from there of him trying to keep her in good enough state, uh, shape that he could dance with her. And it's called daddy daughter dance. And it kind of gets a little dark after that.
00:54:46.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah ah Oh, does it?
00:54:47.00
Bert Edens
Um, yeah, yeah, it gets dark after that.
00:54:48.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
After that? Yeah.
00:54:51.01
Bert Edens
And it's kind of funny because one of the reviews from it, um, Somebody had talked about how some of them are, there's one that's more humorous. There's some them that's more horror noir.
00:55:02.32
Bert Edens
um Some that's kind of a horror westerns. And then he refers to mine as quote unquote being just plain fucked up. So my wife has a cricket that she does for, she uses for making t-shirts and, you know, signs and things like that. And she's done a lot of the stuff that I use for ah cons and such one other there, but she, she made me a t-shirt that has that quote on there with an asterisk gun for the U and then has that as a quote for that story.
00:55:29.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice.
00:55:29.54
Bert Edens
um Because it's like, yeah know, that's t-shirt material, you know, if you like horror, you want something that's just fine fucked up and it's probably the darkest of the stories, but that's okay.
00:55:32.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, totally.
00:55:39.39
Bert Edens
But anyway, it the the thing is it's a charity anthology. Alice and Cheryl Cooper have an organization that they have in the Phoenix area i'm called Solid Rock Teen Centers.
00:55:50.93
Bert Edens
And what they do is they teach teens that come in. They've got three or four centers. I think they just opened a new one. They've got several of them. And you come in and it's like you want to learn guitar, they'll teach you guitar. You want to learn how to dance, they'll teach you dance. You want to learn how to paint, they'll teach you to paint. They will find somebody to teach you for free.
00:56:09.46
Bert Edens
And that their whole thing is just, you know, in general with teens of any age, if you give them someplace to be and a reason to be there, they stay out of trouble.
00:56:17.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm. Yep.
00:56:19.71
Bert Edens
And so anything above, you know, anything that gets sold online, of course, I don't have a cost for that.
00:56:19.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:56:25.07
Bert Edens
So any proceeds from that goes directly to them. and if I sell books, you know, in person or whatever, anything above my cost of shipping and, And, you know, buying the books themselves goes to them, too.
00:56:33.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:56:34.26
Bert Edens
So I've been able to donate several hundred dollars already to them. So it's it's pretty cool. But it's kind of a good nice nice way to kind of give back to somebody who gave me all the years of music and horror movie suggestions and all that.
00:56:45.80
Bert Edens
And, you know, that, you know, being a martial arts instructor, I always love people who gave back to teens in particular because they're such a vulnerable part of their lives.
00:56:51.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm. Yep.
00:56:55.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep. Totally. Totally. And it's it's such a good collection. I mean, I have not been through the whole thing, but we had JC on here talking about it as well, and he sent me a copy.
00:57:01.71
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:57:04.29
Bert Edens
Oh, yeah.
00:57:06.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
I actually had wanted to submit. i was working on a story, but that was the year that I got sick. So I ended up not submitting very much that year.
00:57:11.41
Bert Edens
ah
00:57:13.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
I put my own book out, and that was it.
00:57:14.65
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:57:16.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I had a whole Ballad of Dwight Fry thing that I was i was new, la right?
00:57:19.57
Bert Edens
Oh, cool. Yeah.
00:57:22.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
So I gotta be more Johnny on the Spot with Antho submissions.
00:57:22.78
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:57:27.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
00:57:27.09
Bert Edens
Yeah.
00:57:27.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now, you also made a horror word search book. How come?
00:57:34.45
Bert Edens
Because?
00:57:34.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
Tell me why.
00:57:36.80
Bert Edens
i don't know. um You know, as a writer, you never know where your inspiration comes from. And sometimes the line at Dollar General is really slow, so you start picking up the books around you.
00:57:48.00
Bert Edens
And I picked up, actually it was a crossword puzzle, the first one I picked up. And I kind of looked at something, and one of the clues had something about Stephen King in it. And I thought, oh, I wonder if there's any books out there, crossword puzzle books, that are just horror related.
00:58:01.41
Bert Edens
And so I looked, and there really wasn't a whole lot. And so I kind of messed with that a little bit. And the formatting is really hard on crossword puzzles, you know, because you've got to have the blocks and the spacing and make sure they all fit.
00:58:08.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, I'm sure.
00:58:11.50
Bert Edens
And it's like, didn't have the time to mess that, but I could figured I could do word searches. And so I just basically started to try to put it together and say, okay, um you know, let's think about, you know, 1980s horror movies. And so I'll look up, um you know, on IMDB or something, you know, 80s horror movies and find some that I wanted. I'd either put in clues that are either, you know, actors from them, the names of the movies, characters in the movies, whatever.
00:58:36.60
Bert Edens
and you know, that could be one or Stephen King could be one or Dean Koontz or Clive Barker or 1930s films or 1990s novels, whatever. And there's, you know, 50 different um word searches that are just horror themed.
00:58:49.62
Bert Edens
And the good thing about it is, you know, because that's there's just the words, you don't have to be a horror fan. Far and away, when I go to cons and such, the people who buy them are like, oh, my son, my daughter, my grandmother, somebody is going to love this.
00:59:00.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right, that's definitely a gift. Yep.
00:59:03.10
Bert Edens
It is a gift. Yeah. And I don't know. I have very few people that have bought it have bought it for them. It's always like, oh, oh, Wednesday would like this. I'm going to buy that for her, you know?
00:59:12.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
00:59:13.20
Bert Edens
And it works out. So it's just another thing that's like, well, okay, sure. And for whatever reason in January so far, that's my biggest seller on Amazon. And this is where I'm shrugging. I don't know why, but it is. so
00:59:24.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's great, though. So, like, if somebody is completely unfamiliar with your work, where is the best place to start?
00:59:32.19
Bert Edens
um The best place to start, I describe my writing as shotgun horror um because, you know, yeah i mentioned Dead Orphans earlier.
00:59:44.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:59:44.52
Bert Edens
And it's got short stories in it. It's got some tweets in there, interestingly enough, too, um and things like that. But some of them are just break your heart. Some of them are absolutely splatterpunk, and they just run full range. you know Some of them have creepy supernatural stories. Some have people just treating each other. They have one of them with a bunch of old ladies that is funny as hell, but also brutal.
01:00:08.36
Bert Edens
And so I call my style shotgun horror. because it's all over the place. And so that's probably the best place is shotgunhorror.com.
01:00:16.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, OK.
01:00:17.40
Bert Edens
um That actually takes you to my link tree and that can, you can find my books. You can find where you can order them directly from me if you want them signed or you can, you know, order through regular retailers like Amazon or Barnes and Noble or Walmart even.
01:00:32.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
We'll have your link tree in the description.
01:00:34.49
Bert Edens
Cool.
01:00:34.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
So people can use that as a jumping off point.
01:00:34.74
Bert Edens
Cool. That works too.
01:00:37.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
But yeah, Dead Orphans is the collection.
01:00:38.03
Bert Edens
yeah
01:00:39.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I was i saw that it does have stories that are told as tweets. Now, does that mean they were written on Twitter or is that just a stylization?
01:00:44.79
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:00:47.51
Bert Edens
Yeah. No, they were actually written because one of the things they have, I haven't been on Twitter in a long time because Twitter, Twitter, um but used to be they had a thing called VSS 365 where every day they would have VSS being very short story where somebody was in charge of for that month, they would come up with a word a day and your whole idea was to write a tweet that would be a story with that the
01:00:54.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nor should you. yeah
01:01:13.99
Bert Edens
a word used in it. And so, you know, people could have something like, you know, cup and you'd have to come up with a story that had that in it. And so those are a collection of tweets I wrote at the time um that would basically try to be an entire story in a tweet, which at one time was 140 characters.
01:01:32.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right, right.
01:01:32.81
Bert Edens
That's when most of them were written. Now it's like 280 or unlimited or i don't know what it is nowadays, but at one point it was 140. So most of those are really short. So um I'm a big fan, especially as an editor, I'm a big fan of word economy.
01:01:45.81
Bert Edens
And I will get it.
01:01:45.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:01:46.41
Bert Edens
You know the authors I work with, I'll be like, you know, you don't need to say, and then you could just say, and, or you could say, then, um, you know, get get rid of your, that's stuff like that.
01:01:51.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
01:01:54.88
Bert Edens
And so that really being able to say, not just, you know, you know, they have drabbles, which are a hundred words. I've got a couple of those in there too, but you know, 140 characters is, you know, 15, 20 words, you know, how can you tell a story?
01:02:01.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:02:07.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, now I heard this, so I have to ask you.
01:02:10.55
Bert Edens
Yes.
01:02:11.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
I have heard that if you write a Drabble, which is a hundred words, that you are not supposed to repeat any words. Is that part of your philosophy?
01:02:18.21
Bert Edens
I have not heard that.
01:02:21.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:02:21.92
Bert Edens
I have not heard that. i've I mean, the challenge is to have it exactly 100 words. Not 100 words less, but exactly 100 words.
01:02:25.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right. Right.
01:02:27.90
Bert Edens
And to me, that's a challenge. Now, that would be interesting to not repeat a word, but that would be, i don't know.
01:02:33.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, yeah, you'd have to, like, avoid articles, which is, that seems impossible.
01:02:36.96
Bert Edens
Yes. Yeah.
01:02:39.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
Um...
01:02:40.47
Bert Edens
and be like trying to write write an entire book without using the letter E, which has been done before.
01:02:46.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'm a good work guy.
01:02:48.51
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:02:48.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
01:02:50.03
Bert Edens
but Yeah, those those tweets are just ones that, you know, they have everything from, ah and you'll see things that relate to, you know, somebody getting revenge for being called a retard, to a lynching in the South, to um just somebody taking care of daddy after a years of sexual assault, you know.
01:03:11.10
Bert Edens
Um, it's just whatever you can squeeze into 140 characters. And it's, it's, it's different. It's different. i've I've definitely had some people who've given the feedback of like, I want more. I want these stories fleshed out because I'm already invested.
01:03:23.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. of
01:03:25.34
Bert Edens
And, um, I think that one of the best compliments I've ever gotten, and I had is somebody who was commenting, you know, on Facebook, somebody will say, Hey, you know, post your links here before, you know, below, and everybody can kind of post what books they have for sale. and And somebody who had read one of mine commented, uh,
01:03:39.92
Bert Edens
specifically dead orphans, they commented and says, you know, you may not like the stories. There's some taboo in there because I do, there's, you know, childhood sexual assault, there's rape, there's abuse.
01:03:51.34
Bert Edens
There's all kinds of things in there because I'm one of those that, those things are uncomfortable for a reason. So let's address them, you know?
01:03:56.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm. Yep, yep.
01:03:58.16
Bert Edens
But anyway, he he said, um he said, you know, you may not like the subject matter, but I promise you.
01:03:58.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'm with you.
01:04:04.11
Bert Edens
And he put he period will period make period you period feel period.
01:04:09.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice.
01:04:11.01
Bert Edens
And I was like, I will take that.
01:04:11.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's fantastic.
01:04:13.12
Bert Edens
i will take that.
01:04:13.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:04:13.88
Bert Edens
And that's that's one of the things that one the best compliments I got from somebody also was said that they the emotions I drive from them reminds them of reading Eric LaRocca, which is a hell of a compliment because i'll love his writing.
01:04:24.67
Bert Edens
But boy, he, was like, ah I'll take that.
01:04:26.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:04:27.79
Bert Edens
You know, I, that's one the things i love to do is if, cause like, and I, and, and I go back to it, we didn't really get into origins of it, but my first thing that I ever read that really got me going on modern horror was Carrie.
01:04:41.38
Bert Edens
Um, and i remember first reading it when I was, uh,
01:04:48.82
Bert Edens
but it was probably about a year or so after it came out. And so I had gone to library and I had run across it because it was on the bestsellers thing. And I got looking it and flipped through it a little bit. thought, Oh, I like that. And I went to check it out in the library. And it's like, no, you can't check this out. You're too young.
01:05:02.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:05:03.54
Bert Edens
I was like, Oh, and she said, but I can't control what people read while they're here.
01:05:09.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:05:10.36
Bert Edens
And I was like, okay. So I went to the back out of, out of sight and started reading it. And, You know, when I, in my, back to the time, my mom and stepdad used to just drop my brother and I off of this the library. And, you know, they'd leave for three hours. I don't know what they did. Don't care.
01:05:23.31
Bert Edens
But would they would just leave us be and we would just wander. You know, kind of started that lifelong love of libraries. But I, you know, for over probably about a month and a month and a half, every weekend we'd get dropped in I'd pick up where I left off.
01:05:29.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
01:05:35.26
Bert Edens
And so read the carry off and on for a month and a half or something like that. And that happened when I was eight.
01:05:42.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow!
01:05:42.24
Bert Edens
So, but one of the things i always say is that that I had read some Poe before and I loved with of the third the poem that got me addicted it to Poe was not the Raven. It was Annabelle Lee.
01:05:54.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:05:55.91
Bert Edens
And I love the gothic feel of it. You could really feel his emotion and his sadness and his sense of loss.
01:06:00.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes.
01:06:02.65
Bert Edens
And it's like, ooh, I love that. but and that's one the things when I read Carrie, it reminded me of that. And it's like, that's what i that's when I said, I want to be a writer. Because I looked at that and said, I want to make people feel that.
01:06:15.35
Bert Edens
I want people to go, what the fuck? Where did that come from? I don't know. You may not like it, but I want to make you feel, and that's my goal. If I can make you feel something, even if it's I hate you, I'm throwing your book against the wall, mission accomplished, you know?
01:06:28.76
Bert Edens
And so getting that compliment on there of he will make you feel, I'm like, all right, thank you. I'll take that.
01:06:34.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
have you ever read a book and then threw it against the wall because you were so mad at it?
01:06:39.17
Bert Edens
No, no, no. Back to the past, I've thrown books because I was angry, but that had nothing to do with the book.
01:06:45.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
01:06:45.29
Bert Edens
um
01:06:46.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, I, I'll tell you, um, I, I threw Mystic River against the fucking wall when I was done.
01:06:46.43
Bert Edens
But...
01:06:51.37
Bert Edens
oh
01:06:52.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
I was so, so angry at that ending.
01:06:55.79
Bert Edens
Uh,
01:06:56.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, you know, well, Dennis Lahan, man, he's just a
01:06:58.74
Bert Edens
yeah.
01:06:59.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
dick i mean i've never met the dude but his stories give every indication that he just likes to mess with people but but that's what you're saying like i'm yeah i've i felt that i felt that in my heart sir so you know
01:07:00.77
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:07:06.68
Bert Edens
Yeah. Yeah. yeah Gosh, I haven't read Mystic River. and It had to be maybe not long after it came out, but I need to go back.
01:07:20.83
Bert Edens
and That's the thing.
01:07:21.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah i read that i read it right away
01:07:21.59
Bert Edens
There's so many books out there. there's so many books out there to read. It's hard for me to go and say, Oh, I want to reread that. You know, I mean, I sat and read it over a day, ah little over a day because I had to read it. And I mean, I was working graveyard shift. It's like work on computers. I'd start a process going. I'd read a few pages, start something else, read a few pages.
01:07:41.71
Bert Edens
Didn't sleep for like a day and a half just to finish the book, you know, but I probably won't read it again because there's so many other books, you know, um,
01:07:45.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
Uh-huh.
01:07:50.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, it it is a long read. is a very long read.
01:07:52.99
Bert Edens
Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, that's also, you know, talking about books that hit differently as adults and kids and things like that. Pet cemetery, you know, I read that when it came out when, and when I was a teen, I was like, oh, that's messed up, you know?
01:08:04.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, Carrie, too.
01:08:04.48
Bert Edens
And then I,
01:08:05.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, when I read Carrie, I think I was probably 10 or 11...
01:08:08.68
Bert Edens
yeah.
01:08:09.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
And so like younger than the core cast. But the thing about Carrie, though, like as a novel, it is a masterclass in how to tell a story. And like if you're learning about point of view and why it's important, Carrie is just masterful at that because there's all those different points of view.
01:08:21.62
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:08:27.88
Bert Edens
Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's, it's really good. And the thing like Pet Sematary, you know, I read it again as an adult and, you know, I, I mean, we can talk spoilers on the book.
01:08:39.23
Bert Edens
It's 40 years old, but when when, when Gage gets hit by the truck, you know, my first thought was I've been sitting in the NICU hoping my son would be alive five minutes from now, you know,
01:08:40.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes.
01:08:50.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:08:50.55
Bert Edens
That hits differently than when you're a teen and you go, oh, that's fucked up. you know
01:08:54.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:08:54.96
Bert Edens
but But it also goes in that thing of you know people separating the art from the artist and all that. you know you know You look at some of the things people write in Extreme or Splatterpunk or whatever. It's like, what is wrong with you? i'll always say the same thing.
01:09:06.68
Bert Edens
Do you think Stephen King's out pushing toddlers in front of 18-wheelers? Just because you write about it doesn't...
01:09:11.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean...
01:09:14.37
Bert Edens
if he could get away with it, maybe, but you know, that's what i'm saying. It's, I always use that example cause it's so people get that they know that scene. And so I can say, do you think that because he wrote that, that he encourages that or whatever, that's the same thing.
01:09:27.03
Bert Edens
If somebody had write something really violent, it doesn't mean they're violent, you know, you know?
01:09:30.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right. In fact, it probably means that they're not.
01:09:34.22
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:09:34.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
Um...
01:09:34.77
Bert Edens
Yeah. Well, that's back to the writing, the trauma you write, the trauma. So you don't go out and do push toddlers in front of 18 wheelers. But you know, I'll also a lot, especially in horror, Horror authors, more than any I've run across, are more empathetic than most people I know. And I think it's because a lot of them have the trauma that they write.
01:09:52.10
Bert Edens
So look at other people and go, dude, I know where you're at. I've been there.
01:09:55.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, that's that's my experience with horror writers as well.
01:09:56.01
Bert Edens
You know, not not that
01:09:59.27
Bert Edens
and not that other genres aren't, because I certainly know more people in that community. but you know, I've looked at times when somebody in the community needs help, and it's either a fundraiser through auctions or just a GoFundMe or whatever. And is amazing how they and their fans step up.
01:10:17.55
Bert Edens
You know, it just blows me away every time.
01:10:18.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:10:20.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep. Well, and there's a lot of layers to that too, because in general, poor people are more likely to help you than rich people, even though rich people have more means and people that are like, you know, but the thing is that we don't have that snootiness, like people that are huge in their fields are still, you know, approachable and great.
01:10:27.35
Bert Edens
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
01:10:38.83
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:10:42.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
Um, I don't know if you heard my story about Brian Keane, but I added him on Facebook because I was like, oh my God, he's on Facebook.
01:10:46.46
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:10:50.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
I have to add him. And he vets everybody. So a bunch of time went by, like a month or two went by, and then he private messaged me, and I had completely forgotten by that point.
01:10:54.07
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:11:00.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I was like, what the hell is wrong with you pretending to be Brian Keane?
01:11:01.59
Bert Edens
yeah
01:11:03.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
Don't be such an ass. Or wait, am i am I confusing it? Maybe it wasn't Brian Keane. It was Ramsey Campbell.
01:11:09.33
Bert Edens
Oh, yes.
01:11:09.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's who it was. Wow, how embarrassing. Sorry, Brian Keane. No, I've been trying to get Brian Keane to come on the show and he doesn't he doesn't hit me back.
01:11:13.69
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:11:17.66
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:11:18.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
But no, it was it was Ramsey Campbell. And I was just like, oh, and I, you know, it and he was super cool about it. But that's the thing.
01:11:26.80
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:11:27.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, you know, when we were coming up when we were kids, if you wanted, mean, you couldn't just find an author and tell them what you thought of your book. Like, maybe you could find their address and maybe you got it together to like get a stamp and an envelope and everything.
01:11:35.55
Bert Edens
Right.
01:11:41.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
But, you know, think people just weren't approachable like they are now.
01:11:41.82
Bert Edens
Yeah. Yeah.
01:11:45.14
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:11:45.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
And there's, you know, pluses and minuses to that, certainly, because now that we know people like the things that they tweet when they're, you know, drunk after work or whatever, like, I don't...
01:11:56.60
Bert Edens
Right.
01:11:57.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
I wish I didn't know a lot of the things that I now know about people and not just like the predators and stuff, but just people that, you know, like some of the, the Chris's, you know, all those famous Chris's, some of them are bad.
01:12:02.45
Bert Edens
Right.
01:12:10.61
Bert Edens
Yep. ah
01:12:13.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like there's a bad one.
01:12:13.78
Bert Edens
Yep.
01:12:15.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah.
01:12:16.48
Bert Edens
Yeah, it's it's it's funny, though because you mentioned Ramsey, I was going to mention name drop the same way, because he strikes me as somebody that is so down to earth, you know, he joins a horror group, and his intro message messages, hi, I write horror.
01:12:16.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:12:30.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
01:12:30.60
Bert Edens
yeah Yeah, no shit.
01:12:31.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
01:12:31.68
Bert Edens
You're a legend in the field, dude.
01:12:32.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
Do you now? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:12:33.54
Bert Edens
But the thing is, and he's always, if somebody is having a something, he's very you know supportive. He always say, hey, keep doing this and keep doing that. And he even talks sometimes about how he struggles with writer's block and what he does to deal with it. And I know he he does art and you know his ah drawing whatever he sees out his window is one of his ways of kind of clearing his mind.
01:12:53.99
Bert Edens
But you're right. He just, he just chats with everybody. I'm like, you were literally one of the first people along with Stephen King that looked and went, Ooh, Cthulhu.
01:12:56.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
h
01:13:02.10
Bert Edens
He kind of took the whole Lovecraftian things and went in his own way with it.
01:13:04.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep, yep.
01:13:04.82
Bert Edens
And, and, and just so many of his books are so good. And I'm like, I mean, there's people that I talked to, you know, talked to him and, you know, Nancy Collins is somebody else that I love some of her vampire stuff.
01:13:14.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:13:15.08
Bert Edens
It's like, talk to her all the time. And she's actually was from, lived in Arkansas for a while. So, We talk about that once a while. And it's just like, there's people I talk to, even Graham Masterton, you know, he'll talk about some things.
01:13:25.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:13:25.65
Bert Edens
I'm like, you know these are people that I, would, yeah, I'd be lost for words if I was sitting around them, but you're right.
01:13:31.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right, right. Like, ah Craig Spector, you know?
01:13:32.68
Bert Edens
They're just, oh me
01:13:33.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
And in and John Skip are there. Billy Martin, a.k.a. Poppy Z. Bright. Like, just hanging out.
01:13:38.62
Bert Edens
ah, yes, Billy is awesome.
01:13:40.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:13:41.64
Bert Edens
Yeah, and and that and that's that's the things, you know, I talk about books that are those that change the way you think. And a lot of things that Billy did as Poppy were just mind-blowing.
01:13:52.41
Bert Edens
At the same time, Kathy Koja was another one, too, that said, like, Cypher and a couple of her books were like, that changed my mindset of how to write horror because they wrote in such a different way.
01:14:01.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:14:04.38
Bert Edens
I tend to write more like a Stephen King. I'm more of a storyteller, you know. I tend to tell... oh, hey, and I'll even have Southern Draws and, you know, make it locale to here and things like that.
01:14:15.33
Bert Edens
But I love the way that both of them, Poppy and Kathy wrote things. It's like, oh, and, you know, it's like, you know, you're you're I'm sitting here having a conversation with Billy about things with his water bill.
01:14:26.95
Bert Edens
And I'm like, this is somebody that i i waited for weeks to get the book from the library.
01:14:28.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
who
01:14:32.74
Bert Edens
And here I'm talking to him about his water bill. I'm like, that's just so weird, but awesome.
01:14:35.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, it is. And it it also, like for me, talking to these people online taught me something that I wasn't expecting to learn, which is that I was very much gauging my own success as a writer, personally.
01:14:47.57
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:14:54.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
but largely ah that my validity was determined by how much money I was making from selling books. And the fact that some of the writers that we talk to online, we see that they are not living opulent lifestyles.
01:15:10.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
They are not, you know, flush with cash.
01:15:10.57
Bert Edens
yeah
01:15:12.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
They have, you know, those like, oh shit, I'm broke till payday kind of days, just like the rest of us.
01:15:17.53
Bert Edens
I know.
01:15:19.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and the thing is that like,
01:15:20.02
Bert Edens
Yep.
01:15:23.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
i I couldn't use that gauge anymore because obviously, but in it for me, that means I'm not going to put myself down because I'm not making as as much money as I want to be with with books, that that's not really the indicator.
01:15:27.02
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:15:38.85
Bert Edens
Right.
01:15:39.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
of Of whether or not you're you're having success and doing what but you, are you know, because because I get to write for my job. You know, my day job is sex writing and then like my real passion is is horror.
01:15:47.05
Bert Edens
Right.
01:15:51.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
um And just the fact that that's what I get to do is enormous, you know.
01:15:56.68
Bert Edens
Sure.
01:15:58.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
And if it means that I get to do everything I want to do, but then I still get to be poor. Because, I mean, I used to have clients that paid pretty well. But they were Texas clients and they wanted me to write about guns and they wanted me to sell cosmetics to tweens and stuff that I just I just didn't feel comfortable with it.
01:16:11.94
Bert Edens
yeah
01:16:18.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I didn't you know, I certainly wouldn't want to put my name on something like that. So.
01:16:22.47
Bert Edens
sure
01:16:23.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
So what do you what are you working on these days? You got anthologies coming up, right?
01:16:28.16
Bert Edens
Yeah, I've got a couple of them that I'm working on. um One of them I've got all the stories in for, and ah much like the Alice Cooper one, although not charity, I'm doing one ah with stories based on the music of Bluish to Cult.
01:16:41.51
Bert Edens
And um I've got the 17 stories for it, and um I've got a somebody who's agreed to do the forward for it, which I'm not going to say who it is.
01:16:52.40
Bert Edens
Offline.
01:16:53.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
Aw, what?
01:16:54.28
Bert Edens
Yeah. offline
01:16:54.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow, nice.
01:16:55.68
Bert Edens
um the But anyway, they've agreed to do the forward to it, so I need to get at least some rough edits so that they can read it and give some feedback and and all that, you know, and while I work on the formal edits. um But I'm kind of getting that. I'm hoping for – I've talked to Francois Villancourt about doing the cover for that. and He's so good.
01:17:14.78
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:17:15.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
wow nice
01:17:16.45
Bert Edens
But yeah, I know. i was like, Ooh, I anybody who's done work for Stephen King, I like that. um But Francois is going to the cover art, but they, I've, I've got him pinned in for penciled in for March. So maybe April release for that.
01:17:30.54
Bert Edens
And then I've got another one that I'm working on, which is um it's actually an invitation anthology. I started with an author had posted and said, Hey, if you could do an anthology, you know, what would it be about? And you can invite any 10 people who would those 10 people be?
01:17:46.51
Bert Edens
And so I came up with, yeah know, I really want to do like a dark fantasy type of thing. And here's the 10 people I thought would be a good idea. And like eight of them replied back at this. Cool. Let's do it.
01:17:56.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, wow.
01:17:57.93
Bert Edens
and I was like, Oh, that's good. So a couple of, ah yeah, I know.
01:17:59.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice ratio, for sure.
01:18:01.57
Bert Edens
And then I found some other people and couple of people have been ah in and out and one has had some life issues getting away and some have had some health issues. So it's, it's kind of dragged on, but it's a pet project. You know, I don't want anybody to,
01:18:13.22
Bert Edens
who I don't have a story from yet to be like, oh, I need to do this instead of working on my novel. No work on your novel, you know? um But I don't know when that's going to be released, but I've still got to get some more stories from the people on that. But that'll just be whenever, you know, it's just a fun project.
01:18:29.96
Bert Edens
um And then, like I said, I mentioned before, Sting of Hope, I'm rewriting as a novella, and I'm probably going to do that on like a mass paperback size, you know, smaller ah trim size on that.
01:18:39.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:18:40.62
Bert Edens
Because it's probably going to be you know, 15, 20,000 words, something like that, whenever it's done. So not huge, but enough to at least have something else out there and be able to take the story of Tony and his dad and, and the the mom and all that, and kind of flesh out how they got to where they were and where they got there and all that.
01:18:57.93
Bert Edens
So those are the big things. And then of course I'm also, you know i also do editing and formatting for others. So I've got several projects there. I've got two people I'm doing formatting for and two people I'm doing editing for.
01:19:08.07
Bert Edens
So, yep.
01:19:09.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow. Full plate.
01:19:12.45
Bert Edens
Yep. Yep. Got to, got to, you know, any business, you got to diversify the income streams, right?
01:19:16.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Totally. Totally. That's why I got a soap business.
01:19:20.55
Bert Edens
Yeah. Hey, listen, I love that. i love things like that. I'm always playing with something, trying to learn how to make soaps or make wine or candles or who knows what. I just always love, love learning new things.
01:19:31.46
Bert Edens
It drives my wife nuts because it's always something. And then it's onto something else. And like, why do we have these three things in here for doing wine?
01:19:35.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
01:19:37.69
Bert Edens
If you're not going to wine again, oh, I will someday.
01:19:39.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, one of the coolest things about having a soap business is that I had occasion to hire a sculptor to make me custom molds.
01:19:40.41
Bert Edens
Sorry.
01:19:45.87
Bert Edens
Ooh.
01:19:47.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, we have a we have one that's um Kurt Barlow from the 78 Salem's Lot.
01:19:53.35
Bert Edens
Mm-hmm.
01:19:53.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
We have um and Jaws. we have a ah that it's It's a very obvious Jaws shark. We have Blinky the Three-Eyed Fish, which we don't call that because that would be IP infringement.
01:20:01.43
Bert Edens
Sure. yeah Sure.
01:20:06.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
01:20:06.44
Bert Edens
Sure.
01:20:07.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
And we have the Zuni fetish from ah Trilogy of Terror.
01:20:11.33
Bert Edens
Nice.
01:20:11.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
Those are all available as soaps in our soap shop.
01:20:13.32
Bert Edens
Ha ha ha ha.
01:20:14.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
Which is also on coffee. It's just a different coffee. It's it's ah coffee ah scared sopless.
01:20:17.27
Bert Edens
Sure.
01:20:19.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, yeah.
01:20:19.95
Bert Edens
Nice. I'm
01:20:21.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
Big fun. um did Did we cover everything that you wanted to talk about?
01:20:25.87
Bert Edens
not sure. I just wanted to talk.
01:20:26.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
It seems like we did, right?
01:20:28.57
Bert Edens
I think so. I think I mean, have have anything that was theme related we need to cover and talk about what I'm working on and just chatting.
01:20:29.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. Okay.
01:20:35.79
Bert Edens
That's half the fun to see where the conversation goes.
01:20:36.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sweet. Sweet. Well, i also like to give a guest an opportunity to ask me a question if they want to. So is there anything you want to ask me?
01:20:45.49
Bert Edens
Um,
01:20:48.62
Bert Edens
Well, we we we discussed Evil Dead earlier. what's What's your favorite horror movie, if you had to name one? I know.
01:20:55.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
See, I.
01:20:55.60
Bert Edens
It's like like Favorite Children.
01:20:57.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right. No, I can never narrow it down to one. For many, many, many years, it was a deadlock between Psycho and Night of the Living Dead.
01:21:06.06
Bert Edens
Ooh. Ooh, both great for different reasons.
01:21:08.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
and
01:21:09.19
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:21:09.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then The Mist came out and immediately catapulted itself to my my top three.
01:21:11.77
Bert Edens
Oh. ah
01:21:15.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, well, and The Mist is one...
01:21:16.32
Bert Edens
Yeah. mist Mist is hated. Why do people so many people hate the mist?
01:21:20.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, because they're mad at the ending and it's not the book ending.
01:21:20.66
Bert Edens
I don't get that.
01:21:23.53
Bert Edens
Oh.
01:21:25.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
there' that's I think that's why they're mad at it.
01:21:26.17
Bert Edens
No.
01:21:27.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
But the thing is, first of all, it's Frank Darabont who is, I mean, if we're going to be trusting people to direct our work, Darabont is the guy.
01:21:35.46
Bert Edens
Sure.
01:21:35.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
But if Stephen King is okay with it, then it's none of my business.
01:21:38.74
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:21:39.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
what you know
01:21:40.26
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:21:41.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
like that's That's not for us to say. Because it is a ah logical ending. I actually think the missed movie fixed things that I didn't like about the book.
01:21:45.82
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:21:51.01
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:21:51.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
01:21:51.76
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:21:51.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Which was was helpful. I don't know how ah how well you know that story. But I didn't like that he he slept with the the woman.
01:21:56.11
Bert Edens
Huh?
01:21:59.47
Bert Edens
Yes.
01:21:59.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
I didn't like that at all.
01:22:00.50
Bert Edens
Yeah. it was It seemed unnecessary. It seemed extraneous to the whole story.
01:22:04.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it was, so yeah, and it it just makes me like him less. And I didn't want to like him less.
01:22:08.85
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:22:09.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
I wanted to dislike Myron.
01:22:10.17
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:22:11.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
And. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
01:22:13.35
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:22:13.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
and ah
01:22:14.00
Bert Edens
But you know you talk about the difference though. Cujo, the movie ended differently than the book.
01:22:18.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
who
01:22:18.42
Bert Edens
you know Spoiler alert, the kid dies in the book, but not in the movie. um But you know it's like, who cares? It's a good story. I pretty much do that, especially you know um with um ah comic books, for example. you know
01:22:32.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
who
01:22:32.54
Bert Edens
The Marvel comic universe is so different from the comic books. I don't care. It's a story. you know Somebody looked at and says, you know it's like fan fiction. you know I don't care. That's the same thing. you know I looked at the mist and thought, Oh, that is different, but I like that.
01:22:44.29
Bert Edens
That makes sense. You know, it makes sense as an ending.
01:22:45.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and I think the other thing that gives people pause about the mist is that here in America... we are much less likely to kill children in movies. And if we do, it's because it's a movie about ah a kid that died.
01:23:01.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like we, we don't, I don't know if you saw, um, oh gosh, I'm forgetting the title.
01:23:01.79
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:23:07.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
There was a ah movie about a couple, like two couples that hang out together and then all this sinister stuff starts happening and they just remade it last year in American version with James McAvoy.
01:23:21.20
Bert Edens
a
01:23:21.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that the title is escaping me. But in the the European version, the kids, you know, there's there's one kid in question and that kid dies and it he dies badly.
01:23:23.89
Bert Edens
i
01:23:33.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it's very upsetting to the viewer.
01:23:34.28
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:23:36.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then in the American version, the it all goes another way. you know But you don't you don't really get those like bleak, martyr-esque European endings in this country.
01:23:40.68
Bert Edens
Right.
01:23:46.99
Bert Edens
Right.
01:23:48.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know And that's that's why I think a lot of hardcore horror fans prefer foreign horror, because anything can happen.
01:23:48.41
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:23:53.26
Bert Edens
Oh yeah.
01:23:55.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
And if it's French, somebody's going to end up in a bathtub but full of blood.
01:23:56.16
Bert Edens
Yep.
01:23:58.97
Bert Edens
Yep.
01:23:59.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Believe it.
01:23:59.45
Bert Edens
Yep. Yeah. And then, and then you get people who will look at, you know, gauge getting hit by an 18 wheeler and pet cemetery and shrug. And then, you know, the dog dies and I wrote, and, uh, um, uh, yes, I am legend.
01:24:13.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, like I am legend.
01:24:15.83
Bert Edens
Thank you. I, I was thinking I am, I'm I robot. Cause I just watched that with Will Smith. Anyway, um, Yeah, I'm legend. And it's like, oh, why'd the dog have to die? Yeah, but the dog had died. There's a reason why the dog had to die.
01:24:27.06
Bert Edens
But people get freaked out about that, but not the kids getting hit by an 18 wheeler. I'm like, I get it. I love animals. We have three pets. You know, we have three dogs. I love them to death. But why? Why? Why is one more important than the other?
01:24:39.12
Bert Edens
i don't know.
01:24:39.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right. Yeah. Well, and you know, there's that whole website, Does the Dog Die? Because people are so, so very...
01:24:44.63
Bert Edens
Yeah, does the dog die? Absolutely.
01:24:47.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and I mean, i think it it actually... And I don't want to get too political here, but I think that rooting for the dog is kind of like rooting for the unborn baby in that they're not going to ask you for anything.
01:25:02.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
They're not going to argue with you. They're not going to say, hey, why don't you respect what I want for a change?
01:25:05.10
Bert Edens
Right.
01:25:07.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, these, they're, they're silent, largely theoretical beings that we can put anything on.
01:25:08.18
Bert Edens
Right.
01:25:12.48
Bert Edens
Right. Yeah.
01:25:15.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
But, uh,
01:25:15.37
Bert Edens
and and And admittedly, sometimes the dog dies only to show that the person's an asshole. And that to me is unnecessary, you know? If it drives the plot, great.
01:25:25.93
Bert Edens
Same thing with kids. you know Don't kill the kid because you want to say, ooh, let's shock everybody.
01:25:30.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:25:30.37
Bert Edens
It's part of the story.
01:25:30.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:25:31.45
Bert Edens
That's great.
01:25:31.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:25:31.85
Bert Edens
you know um But at the same time, we could we could talk for probably another hour about spoilers and trigger warnings. But it's the same thing. I look at Does the Dog Die? And I'm like, that that i get that you may want to avoid a particular trigger or a warning or whatever that is important to you or spoiler.
01:25:48.81
Bert Edens
But it's like I don't. if I look at something say, the dog dies, I can't watch the movie open-minded because I'm waiting for the dog to die, you know?
01:25:57.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, sure. I mean, that and that's the thing about spoilers, is that if you're talking about trigger warnings or content warnings, I think there should be an industry standard where it's on the back page of the book or a link in a digital book, so that if you want that information, you know that it's there to go get it, but also so that no one else will accidentally see that information.
01:26:03.67
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:26:10.10
Bert Edens
Yeah.
01:26:14.35
Bert Edens
Right.
01:26:19.38
Bert Edens
Right.
01:26:19.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because spoilers is a legitimate concern.
01:26:19.96
Bert Edens
But, was but, Right. but and that's what I'm saying, especially something like, say, outside horror entirely, Prince of Tides, you know, the the spoiler in that is where his trauma came from.
01:26:33.01
Bert Edens
But if you put in, it's a legit trigger warning for a lot of people. But if you say that, it completely ruins the movie from the beginning, you know, and so you can't do that.
01:26:40.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep, yep.
01:26:43.16
Bert Edens
So i'm that's what I'm saying. That's like, I absolutely respect other people's ah trauma and I don't want to say, oh, you shouldn't, but I'm probably one who's like, you know, a lot of my stories, I couldn't give a trigger of warning to because it would ruin the story. You know, it's like, oh, hey, this one has CSA and it also has violence. And they're like, oh, gee, I wonder what's going to happen. You know?
01:27:02.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, but the alternative is risking somebody, you know, having their PTSD triggered. do You don't want to cause someone a ah panic attack because you want them to enjoy the story more.
01:27:09.28
Bert Edens
Absolutely.
01:27:13.49
Bert Edens
Right. That's what I'm I respect their trauma, but it's also like,
01:27:15.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, it's it's a tough line.
01:27:17.85
Bert Edens
yeah and And the thing is, I'm also willing to accept that I want to respect other people's traumas. so But I also get that, if you know, it's like dead orphans. It specifically says, these are some things that you need to watch out for.
01:27:31.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:27:31.93
Bert Edens
And because there's a bunch of short stories and and things like that, you can look at that and say, oh, no, one of those stories may be an issue. I'm going to avoid the whole thing. And I'm fine with that.
01:27:42.85
Bert Edens
you know? um But it's just one those things so like in general, I couldn't do one. If it was just like a whole novel, it'd be hard to say, you know, give it some of those because it's like, you is it a spoiler? Is it not? I don't know.
01:27:54.62
Bert Edens
So, but like I said, it's, it's not my trauma.
01:27:56.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
01:27:58.51
Bert Edens
So I'm not one to speak and say you're overreacting or you don't have a right to that trigger warning.
01:28:03.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I mean, it it doesn't seem like there's any harm in making the information available to people that want it without it intruding into the experience of people who don't want it.
01:28:10.42
Bert Edens
Yeah. Yeah.
01:28:15.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
01:28:15.79
Bert Edens
Yeah. i Like said, the only thing that hurts is like, like is said, Prince of Tides. You can't give that trigger warning without completely ruining the story. And, but you know, at the same time, I have a story in Dead Orphans that deals with CSA and retribution from that.
01:28:30.87
Bert Edens
And I have had at least two people that have messaged me and said, that helped me with my trauma because I was not able to get retribution with my abuser. And so it was kind of cathartic to them in some ways. And so, you know, I see it both ways. You know, they they really went into it, not really expecting it.
01:28:47.50
Bert Edens
And they said it was hard when they read it. But after reading, it was like, ooh, man, I wish I could have done that, you know? So it's it's a mixed bag. But I agree. it's it's It's good to say this could be a potential problem because I respect your trauma.
01:29:03.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure, sure. Well, guess what? It's time for the Mad Lib.
01:29:08.10
Bert Edens
Oh, boy. Alrighty.
01:29:11.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
all right so this one actually has two people in room so the first person in the room will be you and then i will be the second person in the room and it actually what it actually says here is um it says person in room female so uh yeah there's there's just the two of us so yeah madlib man they they be binary over there goodness
01:29:15.50
Bert Edens
Okay.
01:29:17.98
Bert Edens
Okay.
01:29:20.59
Bert Edens
Okay.
01:29:29.61
Bert Edens
okay
01:29:34.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Alright, you know what? I need adjectives. Looks like one, two, three, four adjectives.
01:29:44.01
Bert Edens
Okay, um let's go with fiery, um aromatic,
01:29:54.90
Bert Edens
um
01:29:59.46
Bert Edens
lazy, and green.
01:30:05.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Alright, an exclamation.
01:30:09.13
Bert Edens
Crap.
01:30:11.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
And a noun.
01:30:14.04
Bert Edens
um
01:30:15.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Actually, any need looks like three, four nouns.
01:30:19.13
Bert Edens
Four nouns. Oh, man. um Let's go with poodle, house, book, and moon.
01:30:35.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, I need a part of the body.
01:30:40.34
Bert Edens
um Elbow.
01:30:43.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
a plural noun.
01:30:47.00
Bert Edens
Um, restaurants.
01:30:49.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Actually, I need, okay, I need two plural nouns.
01:30:51.26
Bert Edens
Uh, let's go restaurants and flowers.
01:31:00.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oops, I lied. One more.
01:31:02.06
Bert Edens
Um,
01:31:06.98
Bert Edens
roads.
01:31:09.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, I need another part of the body.
01:31:14.46
Bert Edens
Um, big toe.
01:31:19.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
And a color.
01:31:21.91
Bert Edens
Um, periwinkle.
01:31:27.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
And a verb.
01:31:31.52
Bert Edens
Um, sit, sat, whatever tension you needed in.
01:31:37.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, and then um an adverb.
01:31:42.47
Bert Edens
Um, deadly. No, deadly is an adjective. Uh, slowly.
01:31:49.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
And a part of the body plural.
01:31:52.68
Bert Edens
Um, noses.
01:31:57.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
Alright, so this is called Makeover Madness. Which I guess is why it's supposed to be... This is a an and fiery scene to be played by Bert and Wedness.
01:32:11.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, so I guess you're girl one and I'm girl two. um Girl one, I'm going to give you an aromatic makeover. Girl two, crap!
01:32:23.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
I will look like a new poodle. Ha ha ha ha ha. ah Girl 1, yes, from head to elbow. First, we'll brush your big toe to make it sleek and lazy.
01:32:31.83
Bert Edens
Thank
01:32:36.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Girl 2, what about my restaurants? My friends say my eyes are my best book. Girl 1, they are. I'm applying Periwinkle Eye House, and it will definitely bring out the color of your flowers, and changing your green clothes will also help.
01:32:56.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
and Girl 2, you don't like the way I sit? Girl 1, you should try and dress more slowly. um my. Those robes you've been wearing were so last year.
01:33:09.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Trust me when we're finished, you'll be the talk of the moon. Girl 2, I've got my noses crossed. Oh man, I want to be the talk of the moon.
01:33:21.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
That sounds dope.
01:33:21.97
Bert Edens
I tell you what, that's, I'll remember that phrase.
01:33:23.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
Ha ha ha Yeah.
01:33:26.58
Bert Edens
<unk>d be the talk of the moon.
01:33:27.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right. Okay. Well, I know.
01:33:30.12
Bert Edens
some of those Some of those made sense, actually.
01:33:33.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
don't like when they're too perfect.
01:33:35.84
Bert Edens
yeah
01:33:36.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's like, no, the wackiness. I want Sharknado level wackiness.
01:33:40.27
Bert Edens
Yeah. out
01:33:42.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
Bert, dude, it was so great having you here. I'm really glad that we got to get together and have this conversation.
01:33:44.94
Bert Edens
Absolutely.
01:33:48.10
Bert Edens
ah appreciate having me on.
01:33:49.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
My pleasure. I want to... um Again, we'll have links... Well, we'll put your link tree in the description. You have a link tree, right? We'll put that in the description so everybody can find all your your dish.
01:33:56.72
Bert Edens
Yeah. Yeah. Well, well, yeah. Yeah. Shotgun.horror.com. We'll take them there. Plus it helps with branding.
01:34:02.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. Right on. Right on. All right. So I want to...
01:34:05.64
Bert Edens
but it helps me with branding
01:34:07.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
Totally. I just want to remind all our listeners that we are here every week. We have new episodes every Wednesday. And that if you want to support us, ah you can find us on Ko-Fi.
01:34:20.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah We're ko-fi slash sometimes hilarious horror. And supporting the magazine is also supporting the show. So thanks, everybody. And we'll see you next week.
Comments
Post a Comment