Mentally Oddcast Transcript: Guest The Reverend Josh Hosler
Hear the audio version of this podcast here.
00:00:00.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
You are listening to the Mentally Oddcast. My name is Wednesday Lee Friday. Do find us on Ko-Fi, that's K-O-F-I, and show us some love, because we need it.
00:00:11.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
This week, I am speaking to the Reverend Josh Hostler. who studied music theory at Olivet College in the 90s and then took up a career in radio consulting. But life threw him a few curveballs, and in 2014, he was ordained as an Episcopal priest.
00:00:30.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
Currently, he serves as rector of the Church of the Good Shepherd in Federal Way, Washington. Josh enjoys hanging out with his wife and adult child. Good Lord, she's an adult. um Keeping up with far-flung friends on social media, singing, composing church music, and chronicling the history of popular music.
00:00:53.05
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:00:53.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
Welcome, Josh.
00:00:54.14
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Thank you. Thank you. And yes, she's an adult. She's turning 21 this week.
00:00:57.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh my goodness, that's insane.
00:00:59.26
Josh Hosler [he|him]
yeah
00:00:59.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's weird. It's weird being the same age as old people. I'm so not used to it.
00:01:02.68
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I know, right?
00:01:03.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Stop.
00:01:03.74
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:01:14.74
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Federal Way W.A. Call from Federal Way W.A.
00:01:25.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, maybe a do not disturb if that's something that can happen at this time of day.
00:01:31.08
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Let me see if I can do that.
00:01:42.04
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I unplugged it. Our office isn't open anyway. Okay, good.
00:01:45.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right. So we usually start by asking guests about the first horror movie that they remember seeing and I don't know yours.
00:01:55.40
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I bet you don't. i I think I thought about this. I think I'd have to say it was Poltergeist. I remember.
00:02:01.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
Very popular answer. Very popular.
00:02:02.97
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, that's that's our age. I remember that being on HBO constantly. And we only had access to HBO at the babysitter's house. Right. So I'm that i'm sure my brother and I saw it over and over again. And our parents were never aware that we saw it.
00:02:19.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh my goodness. Wow. So was were horror movies frowned upon or anything over a PG or...
00:02:26.78
Josh Hosler [he|him]
horror I wouldn't say horror movies were frowned upon. us just that we were so darn little at that point. I mean, there's no way my parents would have wanted us watching that. um
00:02:34.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
oh
00:02:35.67
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, it was it wasn't an issue with the genre. It was an issue with our age, I'm sure. Yeah.
00:02:40.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
I see. Yeah, see, my parents had no such... I mean, I saw...
00:02:44.22
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:02:45.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
I think I was seven when Alien came out. I saw that at the drive-in. I was nine for Friday the 13th, again, drive-in. So...
00:02:53.02
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Well, I'm sure my parents also just didn't care for her horror movies, you know? So, yeah.
00:02:58.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
Ah. Well, that would make sense. Now, I do not typically refer to you as the Reverend Josh, but I am today. um not Obviously, this is a title that you earned, but I am curious to know why that title is important to you.
00:03:07.93
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right?
00:03:16.13
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Well, you know, it it kind of is and it kind of isn't. um The reverend is kind of a funny title, right? I mean, it's an adjective. It's not a noun. Most people drop the the, um but you wouldn't just call a judge honorable, right?
00:03:29.99
Josh Hosler [he|him]
You wouldn't say, hey, honorable, yo, honorable. So it' it's exactly the same with reverend.
00:03:32.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:03:34.98
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I mean, maybe you would just for fun, but it's it's the same kind of thing. And I don't even know what the adjective reverend is supposed to mean. Is it like reverend, but with the t with a D? I don't know. Maybe.
00:03:45.10
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Maybe I should be the irreverent Josh Hostler. I don't know.
00:03:48.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
then
00:03:49.53
Josh Hosler [he|him]
But honestly, the title isn't that important to me.
00:03:49.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well,
00:03:51.77
Josh Hosler [he|him]
A lot of people call me Father Josh, and they can do that if they want. But I prefer just Josh. Or if they have to have a title, then Pastor Josh. That's better, I think, because it's gender neutral.
00:04:02.31
Josh Hosler [he|him]
But anyway, I don't need to take on everyone's daddy issues with father.
00:04:08.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I could see where that might become burdensome. um Interestingly, I find that there's a pretty stark contrast between people who call themselves Reverend to identify that they're part of a community and that people can come and approach them if they want to.
00:04:27.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
And people that identify as a reverend to bolster themselves, make themselves seem more important than they are, or to affirm that they are being honest in a situation, which I, I, I,
00:04:42.24
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Oh, that doesn't affirm anything like that. Yeah.
00:04:46.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, I mean, well, and that's that's the thing. Like, you know, you and I, we do not practice the same faith. I generally, I mean, I give money to Satanic Temple. I joined in 2016.
00:04:57.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
um but But I'm married to a Christian. So, you know, but I think there's so much happening with some of the louder Christians these days.
00:05:09.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
i don't even think it's the majority, but it is the the loud ones that just make me bristle when someone mentions their religion to me, when they say things like, I'll pray for you.
00:05:21.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'm just like, you know what?
00:05:21.09
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:05:22.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
Don't. I mean, i understand that it's well-intentioned, but if you know I don't believe, isn't that sort of presumptuous?
00:05:31.48
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, yeah, it is. It is.
00:05:33.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
it doesn't It doesn't seem helpful.
00:05:33.94
Josh Hosler [he|him]
and
00:05:35.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
It seems performative to me.
00:05:36.70
Josh Hosler [he|him]
yeah You know what they say about Christianity, all the all the noise comes from the shallow end of the pool.
00:05:41.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah Ah.
00:05:42.42
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:05:43.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
i'm I'm not familiar with that phrase, but that makes a lot of sense.
00:05:44.70
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, you know how swimming pools are, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, and you know, you you say you've given money to the Satanic temple and that so profoundly does not alarm me in any way.
00:05:56.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:05:56.95
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um i think first and foremost, because I know that that the Satanic temple is not about the worship of Satan. um I can't say that I know all that much about it, but I know that much. And and I know that's like counterintuitive and surprising to most Christians. um I remember having a great conversation once with a bartender at a wedding reception.
00:06:17.07
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And after he himself had had a couple drinks, he called me over and he started asking me questions because he saw my caller. He was very proud of being a Satanist, and he expected me to be shocked by that.
00:06:24.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:06:29.07
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And then he started asking me questions about the role of Lilith, Adam's mythical first wife. And I had to break the news to him that Lilith is not in the Bible, that she's a later figure in Jewish mysticism.
00:06:40.70
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And he didn't believe me at first. Anyway, we had a great conversation. And from behind the bar, he kept working on another drink. and another, and then he went and puked all over the floor and someone from the wedding family had to take over bartending duty for the rest of the night.
00:06:54.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow. Wow.
00:06:55.99
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah. But so, you know, one of my, one of my fun connections with people there, um there was also another time I was, um I was helping with the Episcopal church booth at Tacoma pride one year and the satanic temple was there with a booth of their own and they were offering unbaptisms.
00:06:56.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
wow
00:07:15.51
Josh Hosler [he|him]
They were,
00:07:15.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:07:16.50
Josh Hosler [he|him]
helping people revoke the ritual act that had made them Christians to begin with. And I thought that was fascinating because in a way, I think it gives credence to the ritual reality of baptism, right?
00:07:27.26
Josh Hosler [he|him]
If it's something you have to undo, then it's something that was very real to you in the first place in some way. And I do believe ritual is a big part of what makes us human, right?
00:07:33.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:07:37.47
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Both physical and spiritual creatures.
00:07:40.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, absolutely. I mean, you know, which rituals make sense and which don't, I think is a ah matter for debate.
00:07:48.12
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right.
00:07:48.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Because I just remember, like I was introduced to the practice of religion fairly late.
00:07:50.94
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Oh.
00:07:57.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like I was in junior high when my mom decided we were going to go to Catholic school and you got a discount if you remember the church.
00:07:59.51
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Wow.
00:08:04.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
So we all joined the church. And so suddenly at like 12, I was baptized, first communion, reconciliation, nation you know, confession.
00:08:06.21
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:08:12.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then the next year was confirmation, just boom, boom, boom, right in a row.
00:08:13.35
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:08:17.21
Josh Hosler [he|him]
yeah
00:08:17.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
and I just remember sitting there and saying, what what do you mean we eat him? what What are you saying? like
00:08:27.64
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:08:27.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, you know, and so these nuns are explaining to me that, well, we engage in ritualized cannibalism and it starts when you're about seven and and there's wine. We'll have wine. um so But that's the thing is it seems...
00:08:43.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
If you grew up with it, it makes a lot of sense. But if you spring that on somebody that is unfamiliar, like, really? They're going to give us wine. We're going to go there and the guy in charge is just going to hand us wine.
00:08:57.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
I got bitched out at a wedding for drinking wine, but it's okay here.
00:08:57.40
Josh Hosler [he|him]
but yeah
00:09:00.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
Why? What what what is what is happening?
00:09:01.82
Josh Hosler [he|him]
i Well, you know, it's funny. There's there's that that meme that goes around, you know, explain your job badly. What I say about my job is that I pretend to drown children and then I serve them alcohol.
00:09:09.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:09:15.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:09:16.73
Josh Hosler [he|him]
ah So it is a little weird from the outside. i mean, and I bet you couldn't get those nuns to to admit to you that that the body of Christ that you were consuming was also still bread.
00:09:20.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:09:29.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, yeah. I mean, we weren't really talking about gluten back in the day, but perhaps we should have been.
00:09:35.73
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right, right.
00:09:36.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, i assume they make gluten-free Eucharist now. Is that...
00:09:40.17
Josh Hosler [he|him]
They do. They do. Yep. My wife is gluten free. I keep a ah separate little container with the gluten-free wafers that I have not touched. right we've We've got someone in the congregation with celiac and and she actually serves at the altar. So she cannot touch that or we can't touch it. And so I carry around a separate container and the people who need gluten-free reach in and take it for themselves. I don't put it in their hand.
00:10:02.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, wow. Okay.
00:10:03.38
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:10:03.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, that used to be as a source of contention. Like, because when I, yeah, like, is it okay to to touch it?
00:10:06.87
Josh Hosler [he|him]
It still is in the Catholic Church.
00:10:11.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, we were taught that only the priest was allowed to touch it.
00:10:13.71
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Oh, yeah.
00:10:15.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because, you know, we had like filthy cum in our hands or something. I don't know. Yeah.
00:10:20.63
Josh Hosler [he|him]
It probably is honestly cleaner to just let one person touch it. But um
00:10:24.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, the entire congregation drank out of the same chalice at at church.
00:10:24.95
Josh Hosler [he|him]
yeah
00:10:28.22
Josh Hosler [he|him]
exactly. yeah
00:10:29.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
They'd just do the little, they'd like wipe it with a cloth.
00:10:32.94
Josh Hosler [he|him]
It's true. we still do that. Yeah.
00:10:35.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:10:36.38
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Some people want to dip it.
00:10:36.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
Even post-COVID?
00:10:37.38
Josh Hosler [he|him]
like you take They want to take their bread and dip it in the wine. That's actually way germier. People don't know this, but the likelihood of people actually getting their fingers in the wine is really, really high. So we tell them, no, don't dip it Just sip from the common cup.
00:10:52.18
Josh Hosler [he|him]
It's okay. It's alcohol.
00:10:53.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well,
00:10:53.90
Josh Hosler [he|him]
it's you know it most of the You could theoretically catch a cold, but you probably won't. Yeah.
00:11:04.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, then God's looking out for you, right? Like, that's his thing. It'd be, you know.
00:11:07.83
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I remember one night I was in church and I had a stomach ache and my mom said, well, maybe you want to take the the bread and the wine. and I said, no, I want to do it. Cause I was feeling all pious, you know, and i'm like, let me get sick from this wine.
00:11:17.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:11:21.44
Josh Hosler [he|him]
well, okay. I was young. I didn't get sick.
00:11:27.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right. Now, i would like to hear what inspired your journey toward ordination. What inspires someone to to do that?
00:11:37.18
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Well, yeah yeah. So yeah, I mean, we went to Olivet College together, and um I guess that was technically a religious school, right? But i mean i mean, even when we were there, I think that was more of a historical reality than than what was actually going on on the ground.
00:11:46.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep. Yep.
00:11:53.46
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I remember we did band concerts in the church on campus, but I don't remember a lot of the students actually attending services at that church, and I don't have
00:12:01.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
that That's true. I think I was only in the church to hear music.
00:12:06.02
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right. And I don't have any memory of memory of the parishioners going out from the church and meeting the students either, frankly. um So, you know, yeah, our our Christian college is just kind of by the by. mean, the first thing to know is that my dad was an Episcopal priest and and then my mom was ordained to the priesthood as well while I was in college. So naturally, i assumed I would never do anything like that. Right. I mean, I grew up knowing the pluses and the minuses of being in a clergy family.
00:12:36.28
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um My dad battled depression and anger issues. And yeah he wasn't a violent man at all. He was deeply loving, deeply compassionate, but he was also a perfectionist and a workaholic. And he would get so frustrated when people didn't see things his way or go along with his ideas. You know, he'd go around slamming doors and just being angry. and You might think that that was about like, well, who's joining the church and who isn't, but that wasn't what it was about. It was really about
00:13:07.80
Josh Hosler [he|him]
his disagreements with others about the best ways to be the church for the rest of the world and how people should or shouldn't become leaders in the church. And he had good ideas. He had open-minded ideas, but ironically, he came to hold these open-minded ideas really rigidly.
00:13:23.35
Josh Hosler [he|him]
so So that was yeah like one of the minuses I saw growing up.
00:13:24.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, sweet.
00:13:27.67
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um My mom is still living. She's a retired priest now with a new partner, and they're both actually in my congregation. And
00:13:35.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah sweet
00:13:35.96
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, so that's kind of fun. um and you know, whereas I always saw my dad as the guardian of the best ideas, I saw my mom as the keeper of the best wisdom. um She's always been able to meet people where they are and and was always far more comfortable with ambiguity than my dad. um She's also a really logical thinker, and that counteracted my dad's tendency to go from the gut.
00:13:58.97
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um So I think there's a lot of both of them in me. um So as I grew up and, you know, in the church and I was in church every week, I was also really into music and radio. And I found my way into a good job with a radio consulting company in Seattle. And that went on for nearly 10 years. And meanwhile, I was involved at St. Mark's Cathedral in Seattle in lots of ways.
00:14:22.39
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And I was helping on a regional level with youth ministry. it was We were gathering teenagers from lots of different churches for weekend retreats and building community together with them. And I think I was good at that. um I still really enjoy the company of youth and young adults, but I never thought ordination was in the picture.
00:14:40.70
Josh Hosler [he|him]
So the radio job was fun, but I wasn't growing in it. It became more corporate and you know got bought and everything. And then everything, i got I got more stagnant as time went on.
00:14:49.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
Uh-huh.
00:14:51.62
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I wasn't growing. And then in the summer of 2004, I was staffing a week-long camp for high schoolers, church camp. And I had an opportunity to preach a sermon for the first time.
00:15:03.58
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And lay people do preach sermons in church. That's not uncommon. And I really enjoyed that process of preparation and preaching. and And after that service, our visiting priest that day came up to me and said, what do you do for a living? And I said, I help small market radio stations with their music programming decisions. And she said, oh, no, no, no, no. no no You are called to be a priest. You had 50 teenagers in the palm of your hand. Do you know how rare that is?
00:15:32.15
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And I laughed and I said, no, no, no, don't. Being a priest is what my parents do, not me. And she said, okay, we'll tell you what, after camp is over, let's get coffee together. And I said, all right, sure, we'll we'll do that.
00:15:42.84
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And I don't always include this detail, but that same week at the end of camp, I got a note from one of the kids and she wrote, if you become a priest, I will go to church. Okay, well, a week and a half later, I was laid off from my job in a big round of budget cuts.
00:15:59.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
Uh-oh.
00:16:00.06
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And I know, right? I mean, that could be a coincidence. Absolutely. Maybe it was. But I decided to treat it as spiritually significant. So I called up that priest and I said, all right, all right, how about coffee?
00:16:12.63
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And I couldn't find another job in radio. I looked all over the place. I wound up as the youth director in an Episcopal congregation. And then that job eventually went to full time and included more duties. And I started preaching there as well. And over the next seven years, it became super clear to everyone else.
00:16:30.74
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And then only after that to me that my gifts and the work of a priest went hand in hand. It also needed to become clear to my wife. That that took some time as well.
00:16:40.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:16:41.62
Josh Hosler [he|him]
so So my family moved to Virginia and I went to seminary for three years. um I was ordained to the priesthood 10 years to the month after that experience with that priest at camp.
00:16:52.46
Josh Hosler [he|him]
That's that's how long that process.
00:16:53.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:16:54.62
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, yeah. I guess it could have gone faster, but I slowed it down. I dragged my heels big time. Yeah.
00:17:02.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now I want to talk just a little bit about Episcopalianism. Um, in my family, there were a lot of Catholics and we don't need to bring up why there were various reasons why people no longer wanted to support the church.
00:17:08.16
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Uh-huh.
00:17:11.92
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:17:18.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
Um, And most of them became Episcopalians.
00:17:24.31
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Oh, really? Okay.
00:17:25.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes, like almost entirely. And my understanding is that this is because Episcopalians are what among the more progressive churches.
00:17:36.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
00:17:36.63
Josh Hosler [he|him]
That's true.
00:17:37.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
More welcoming of people that are often shunned by churches, people who've been divorced, gay, lesbian, trans folks. um
00:17:46.55
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right, right.
00:17:47.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it's interesting because I've encountered a few people that are absolutely rabid about opposing ah homosexuality and and being trans and transitioning, but yet they are divorced.
00:18:02.55
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, right, right.
00:18:03.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
which and And remarried, divorced and remarried. And that, I mean, are those those sins, they're they're on the same level.
00:18:06.23
Josh Hosler [he|him]
and
00:18:10.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like if if we agree that those in fact are bad, they're...
00:18:14.27
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Well, if we agree that those are bad. I mean, you know, Jesus had really strong words against divorce, but they were they were part of a conversation in which what he was really doing was holding men accountable for victimizing women by divorcing them and leaving them with no options in life.
00:18:32.86
Josh Hosler [he|him]
that's That's what Jesus' pronouncement about divorce was all about. And as for being LGBTQ, he never said a ah single word about any of that. So I, yeah, I mean, I i'm just i just tell people, you know, being gay isn't a sin. It's just who you are.
00:18:48.85
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Let it be. Being trans, that's a real thing. People are trans. Get over it, you know? So...
00:18:54.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right. But if you were a Baptist and not an Episcopalian, that shit would not fly.
00:18:59.64
Josh Hosler [he|him]
and like Well, maybe if I was an American Baptist, it'd be fine. There are different Baptists out there, too. American Baptists are kind of groovy. um
00:19:06.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, are they? I grew up when I lived in Hazel Park, there were we were surrounded by Baptists and they weren't allowed to watch Love Boat. They weren't allowed to wear makeup. They couldn't play games that use dice because dice are gambling.
00:19:20.32
Josh Hosler [he|him]
No, yeah. And actually, my mom was raised an American Baptist.
00:19:20.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Well, and and the thing is, i think at one point,
00:19:22.86
Josh Hosler [he|him]
it was the same.
00:19:25.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
They were allowed to play trouble because you didn't actually touch the dice. And I wondered if that's why they made trouble like that. Because, you know, it had the the little bubble inside. And so you pop the bubble and it rolls the dice. And we always were taught that it's so you don't lose the dice.
00:19:43.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because you have a game and you lose the dice and then you can't Monopoly anymore.
00:19:43.41
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Sure.
00:19:46.81
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right, you're right.
00:19:47.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
So... Right, but but with the trouble game, they were allowed to just press the thing and then it it somehow wasn't gambling because they weren't touching it.
00:19:57.04
Josh Hosler [he|him]
It's pretty funny.
00:19:57.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
Which to me, it's so arbitrary and so many of those rules seem arbitrary.
00:19:57.56
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I mean, my mom. Yeah. Yeah. Like.
00:20:04.09
Josh Hosler [he|him]
My mom was raised American Baptist and her dad was a pastor. So, you know, there's another layer. My grandfather, who I never met, was ah an American Baptist pastor, but they weren't allowed to wear makeup or go to school. I don't know if they went to school dances. they They weren't allowed to play with decks of cards. That was their issue. But they but they could play Pitt because Pitt was not played with a standard deck of cards.
00:20:28.95
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Go figure. um All I know is that American Baptists aren't like that anymore. Right. I mean, there's been a huge shift in the last, you know, 75 years or whatever.
00:20:38.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I imagine they were losing memberships. People aren't going to stand for that.
00:20:43.13
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right.
00:20:43.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, it's like Catholics with the birth control. Finally, the Pope was like, yeah, maybe.
00:20:48.35
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, exactly.
00:20:49.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
Maybe.
00:20:51.26
Josh Hosler [he|him]
i mean, really, you know, the Episcopal Church is just the next door neighbor to the Catholic Church, liturgically and theologically. um I like to describe it as next door neighbors with a gigantic, really tall fence in between that some of us wish weren't quite as high. um we know My church does shared ministry with the Catholic Church down the street. We feed people together. And that's not a problem.
00:21:15.03
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um They wouldn't want me taking communion at their church, but we can definitely feed people together. So I think that's how we get somewhere is just by doing stuff together. Yeah.
00:21:26.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
So what is your relationship with the Pope then? Is he...
00:21:30.94
Josh Hosler [he|him]
There isn't one.
00:21:31.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
like
00:21:32.47
Josh Hosler [he|him]
yeah he's He's the Roman Catholic Bishop of Rome and we don't have any connection to him because 500 years ago, Henry VIII severed his ties or rather the Pope excommunicated him or whatever. um And Henry was...
00:21:47.51
Josh Hosler [he|him]
He wanted to be a loyal Catholic, but he also wanted to be in charge of his own church in his own country, which was kind of mega maniacal of him. um He also had all been beheaded, you know, but that does those were the inauspicious beginnings of the Episcopal Church. It was the Church of England and then then the Episcopal Church over here. So we're really just the Catholic Church that went through a reformation for different reasons than all the other people went through a reformation.
00:22:14.46
Josh Hosler [he|him]
If you go to an Episcopal service, it feels exactly like a Catholic service. um It might even be a little more traditional um because we didn't go through the whole Vatican II, now we're all singing folk masses thing, at least not in most places.
00:22:28.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
00:22:30.26
Josh Hosler [he|him]
So some people say we we're more Catholic than the Catholics are, depending on where you go.
00:22:36.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
See, I've always thought that was more the Lutherans, like where the Catholic light.
00:22:40.28
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah. Yeah. The Lutherans are also next door neighbors to the Catholics. I mean, that was they were the first ones in the Reformation um and they didn't really change the service all that much. But but I would say they're less liturgically fussy than than Episcopalians are overall. I think we ah i think ah Lutherans would agree with me on that.
00:23:02.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
I see.
00:23:02.84
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:23:03.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:23:03.67
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:23:04.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now, I want to talk.
00:23:05.67
Josh Hosler [he|him]
We love our ritual. Sorry. yeah
00:23:08.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, no, I just I want to get into your diagnosis. Now, we talked about this a little bit. And what you had told me was that your diagnosis is mild depression and anxiety and that it started around 2017.
00:23:23.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
i wonder if something had happened to to make you feel mildly depressed and anxious right around 2017.
00:23:31.66
Josh Hosler [he|him]
2017, yeah, funny thing. And I keep hearing I'm not the only one.
00:23:33.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah freshes hu yeah
00:23:36.28
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:36.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
i'm I'm coughing at you. And that that was the election that he he actually won. you know he He actually legitimately won the electoral college. I don't think he got the most votes, but that's not how we do things here.
00:23:52.12
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right, exactly.
00:23:52.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Much to my dismay.
00:23:55.61
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, mine too.
00:23:56.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
so So with that in mind, I mean, so so what was happening was...
00:23:57.91
Josh Hosler [he|him]
So that was a big part of it.
00:24:04.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
probably at least in part uh circumstantial because holy shit we gave our country to a ah fascist who rapes children um you know what let me just let me just change that um past tense raped children yeah
00:24:10.26
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:24:13.00
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, exactly, yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah, and that we didn't even necessarily know that at the time. Not that part.
00:24:25.62
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um Oh, I guess, okay, maybe we did know.
00:24:26.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
uh no wait we did we did we did
00:24:29.53
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, it's worse. we We know now that it's worse than we then we knew. We'll put it that way.
00:24:34.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes, well, because he had only admitted to assaulting adult women at that time.
00:24:38.33
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yes, that's true. That's true.
00:24:39.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
And some people were just totally fine with that. Like, oh, well, they were asking for it, though, right?
00:24:43.06
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:24:45.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
They were wearing clothes or something.
00:24:45.72
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:24:47.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
I don't, I won't pretend to understand how they do that.
00:24:49.69
Josh Hosler [he|him]
No, I never will.
00:24:50.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
But...
00:24:51.80
Josh Hosler [he|him]
So anyway, I think it of course that was a factor.
00:24:52.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
who
00:24:54.36
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I think there were three factors. I think Trump was the second factor. I think the first one, I'll be honest, probably the rise of the smartphone. I mean, I was not an early adopter because they were really expensive, but When I finally got one in like 2012, I was on that thing all the time.
00:25:09.86
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And I don't think I realized just how much my constant attention to it was affecting my sleep and my well-being.
00:25:16.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:25:16.42
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And I still wrestle with that.
00:25:16.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:25:18.24
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I know a lot of people do. If I'm when in doubt, go on Instagram. Right. And and I don't think that's helping. um The second factor was definitely the rise of fascism in America, which at first seemed to me, to many of us, like just a temporary oops, you know, that we were going to find our way out of.
00:25:36.60
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um By then I was in my first job as a priest, which included working with a group of university students. And I remember telling them at one point that I thought I might be dealing with a bit of depression. And I just wanted to give them some context for why I hadn't really been on my game lately.
00:25:51.99
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um But then the third thing was definitely COVID lockdown. That was really the clincher. um I'm a flaming extrovert. And so that time was really hard for me. um And by then I was in the role I am now at Good Shepherd. And I was leading a congregation of mostly elderly people without being able to be in their presence.
00:26:12.82
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And also having to teach a bunch of folks how to use Zoom, including people who have never gotten all this technology stuff in the first place.
00:26:16.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:26:20.79
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And that was really rough. um Here's an example. In the first couple months of the pandemic, I had to do last rights over the phone. um It was, the yeah, the the woman's name was Peggy and she was so gracious and understanding.
00:26:29.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh my gosh.
00:26:37.08
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Even as she was actively dying, she really made it kind of a holy experience. She made it way easier. um And thankfully nobody else died before I was able to actually be present with them in their final days.
00:26:49.06
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um But not that we had any funerals for quite a while. Some of them were greatly delayed or just didn't happen at all.
00:26:53.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
00:26:55.38
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Nobody in the congregation died of COVID. It could have been a lot worse. um So, you I think it was those three things just kind of stacking up on each other. And and I just keep hoping for better days. But yeah, that that definitely, that's what got me there.
00:27:14.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
um So what when did you pursue a diagnosis and and why?
00:27:22.20
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, I have a memory of standing in my kitchen, probably in that awful winter of 2021 and noticing that I was having all these muscle twitches and ticks, you know, like just and everything in the world was all wrong. I felt really helpless. um I also noticed I was drinking more than I had before.
00:27:42.20
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um
00:27:42.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
oh
00:27:43.13
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Now, I was on antidepressants for a little while when I was 12 or 13. So it's not like it was a foreign idea to me. And I've been in counseling at various times in my life just to have a way to talk things through.
00:27:55.50
Josh Hosler [he|him]
have a priest friend who says, never trust a priest without a therapist.
00:27:59.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
00:27:59.38
Josh Hosler [he|him]
So I sought out help. And now that includes a daily dose of Zoloft. That's starting 2022. I'm still it today.
00:28:07.95
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um and i track my alcohol consumption and i've been gradually reducing it i don't want to get to the point where i can never have alcohol again you know i know lots of people in recovery and i know what an absolute that is and i don't want that for me so that's that's kind of where i am now yeah
00:28:16.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
know
00:28:24.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. Now, I'm aware um that some religions are very much against traditional mental health treatment. um But I'm basing that on what I experienced as a young person.
00:28:36.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
I am not a young person now, so I'm sure things have...
00:28:38.78
Josh Hosler [he|him]
A lot of time has passed. Yeah.
00:28:40.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure. So is that is that still a factor?
00:28:44.50
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um If it is, I don't know where it is. I mean, I think I've heard of such things in like the Christian Science Church and stuff like that. But I imagine that the that the stigma is still very much alive in a lot of places and probably just unexamined.
00:29:00.31
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um It's just such a really foreign idea to me that you wouldn't want mental health treatments, that you wouldn't want psychological help. i i didn't I didn't grow up in that kind of church. I only hear about it like you hear about it. i I guess I can only assume that it's about the fear of relying on any factor other than Jesus.
00:29:20.18
Josh Hosler [he|him]
But I mean, honestly, in those circles, they make they seem to make Jesus so psychological, right? Like a psychological crutch or something, as if as if Jesus could not somehow also be present in modern medicine.
00:29:27.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
00:29:33.14
Josh Hosler [he|him]
You know, like, ah I just don't get it. I don't get it any more than you do.
00:29:38.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know what? I'm actually going to pause us for just a second because.
00:29:41.80
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Okay. Okay.
00:29:43.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, so so we are back. um So what kind of like did did your congregation know that you had sought therapy or that you had begun medication?
00:29:55.77
Josh Hosler [he|him]
yeah know I didn't talk about it at first um because it's really, really important as a priest that I don't seek out my parishioners to lean on for support. um that can create all kinds of unhealthy role confusion.
00:30:05.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes.
00:30:07.74
Josh Hosler [he|him]
i i was taught in seminary, preach from your scars, not your open wounds. um So my initial support came from my family and my non-church friends. But since settling into the diagnosis and the medication, I have mentioned it a couple times in sermons or on other occasions when I'm addressing the congregation, I want to normalize it as much as I can.
00:30:28.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
yes
00:30:28.41
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um and And when I was preparing for a sabbatical a couple of years ago, I openly told them COVID really did me in and it's time I took a break. I'm not going to be any good to you guys unless I take this time off. So, you know, all of that together, I just tried i normal i try to normalize resting and I try to normalize getting the help that you need, whatever that looks like.
00:30:50.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I mean, I would go so far as to say that talking about it is a way to lead by example.
00:30:57.30
Josh Hosler [he|him]
here Here, that's exactly right. Yeah.
00:30:59.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
um I think that I was raised by conservatives.
00:31:03.62
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Mm-hmm.
00:31:03.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
And when I say conservatives, I don't mean ah fiscally minded people. I mean, my folks were a little racist. They were very judgy about, you know, again, we lived in Hazel Park.
00:31:14.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
So our neighbors were getting those big old yummy blocks of government cheese and free lunches and stuff that my my family really looked down on.
00:31:19.77
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:31:24.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
And another thing that they would have looked down on is mental health treatment. That it's people, it's it's weakness, it's whining, it's, you know, pick yourself up and and just deal with life.
00:31:29.05
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Really?
00:31:36.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
Life is hard sometimes, deal with it.
00:31:37.10
Josh Hosler [he|him]
My.
00:31:38.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like it's ah very much presented as a... as ah Like a, you know, stick-to-itiveness. Like you just need to to buckle down and and try harder, which is the last thing you want to hear.
00:31:46.39
Josh Hosler [he|him]
my
00:31:51.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
um i don't know how often you talk to the the MAGA boys online. I don't do it as much as I used to now that my interest in a certain a-hole is is behind me.
00:32:03.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
00:32:03.97
Josh Hosler [he|him]
yeah
00:32:05.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
But... I talk to those people a lot and one of the first insults out of their mouth after things related to physical appearance, they accuse people of being in therapy. They accuse people of taking medication. Oh, oh, is your mental health acting up? And the thing is,
00:32:23.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
very I mean, it's it's very unusual that i don't that I encounter one of those MAGA boys and and not think, well, that guy has some things that he needs to do.
00:32:35.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
it's Like, I'm sorry your dad never apologized to you, but maybe don't take that out on every stranger you encounter.
00:32:35.86
Josh Hosler [he|him]
wow
00:32:41.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:32:42.04
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right. um yeah The accusation I see more is like, ah oh, that that that kid is trans, that's mental illness. Autism, mental illness. Wearing a mask outdoors, mental illness, unless they're ice, right?
00:32:54.79
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I mean, lately the algorithm has been sending me to argue with Catholic dude bros and I don't know why I bother.
00:32:55.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah Right.
00:33:02.61
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I really just need to quit that.
00:33:05.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, you know, you know, it's actually pretty funny. Now, I recognize that people can feel different ways about abortion, and I don't want to, like, start a whole abortion conversation. um
00:33:14.59
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:33:16.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
But as I understand it, the Bible says life begins at first breath. That's when life begins. So if you're making a religious argument, not only that, but in Judaism,
00:33:27.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
they spell out pretty clearly that the life of the mother should take precedence over anything that's forthcoming um so i actually get a bit of perverse pleasure by telling maga boys that they're being very emotional when they refer to fetuses as babies that they're not using logic please use logic and not emotion in this issue and and
00:33:43.35
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. You're getting right. Right.
00:33:50.71
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Well, and the thing is that the only way to deal with the abortion issue is to use logic because it's the only way that you can straddle the divide between all these varying feelings on it. I mean, again, not to get sidetracked, but um the Bible doesn't say life begins at breath. It implies it poetically at times.
00:34:10.68
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um And it
00:34:11.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
I guess it depends on the translation, right?
00:34:13.21
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, maybe. be and it and it And I guess it implies it in Mosaic Law because it definitely treats a fetus as a possession rather than a human being in that context. But no, I don't want to get bogged down in abortion conversation.
00:34:28.02
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I mean, nobody likes abortion, right? I mean, can we at least start there? Okay.
00:34:34.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I mean, it seems like a lot of the people that scream about it are doing the least to forward the ideas that we know prevent abortion.
00:34:44.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
Things like affordable child care and WIC and SNAP and, you know, holding fathers accountable for child support.
00:34:45.00
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right.
00:34:47.93
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And conceptually, perceptionive but yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:34:52.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like lots, lots of different things, affordable housing, just, you know, better schools and more plentiful schools.
00:34:55.44
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right.
00:34:58.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
There are so many things like that, but the people that are wagging their fingers and screaming in your face outside of Planned Parenthood are not supporting those ideals.
00:35:07.02
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right, exactly.
00:35:07.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
So that really makes you question, are you really trying to prevent these things or are you trying to shame people and divide the the populace in general?
00:35:16.45
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:35:19.63
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Are you trying to make yourself feel feel better by making other people feel worse?
00:35:20.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know,
00:35:23.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and, you know, if we're all screaming at each other, we don't necessarily notice what the real bad guys are doing. the The wage thieves, the landlords buying up all the houses, you know, all that there.
00:35:31.79
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:35:37.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
But again, we're trying to not get super tangenty if we can help it.
00:35:37.91
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah. Right. Exactly.
00:35:42.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
00:35:43.58
Josh Hosler [he|him]
So I turn it back over to you.
00:35:47.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right. I'm looking at my list because for those of you who don't know, I have a list. I prepare for these interviews. um So what advice would you give to an adult, maybe someone with a family who is reticent to seek treatment, but they are experiencing, as you mentioned, physical symptoms? i don't know if you know that book, The Body Keeps the Score.
00:36:10.30
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, yeah, I haven't read it, I know of
00:36:11.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
But okay.
00:36:12.47
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:36:13.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
so So what advice do you give someone like that?
00:36:16.51
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Hmm. good question. I mean, in general, i I try not to give too much straight up advice because so much advice isn't even asked for. I think I first just want to dig under the surface with them a bit about the source of that hesitation.
00:36:30.74
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I mean, I don't know what's best for others, but I'm interested in helping people examine things that have gone unexamined up till now, right?
00:36:37.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:36:37.94
Josh Hosler [he|him]
To help them surface those things that maybe if you took a look at it, you might think differently. um I can only tell my own story. that's That's what I do. I tell them my own story. I can't preach to them about what their story should be.
00:36:50.49
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um But if they did want to hear my perspective, I'd point something really specific out, which is the timing of when I went on medication. um I started on Zoloft and then Russia invaded Ukraine and the whole world got objectively worse overnight.
00:37:06.81
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yet my mental state actually improved. um I knew there was no point letting Putin and Trump and Netanyahu and Hamas dictate how functional I get to be in my own sphere of influence. I'm i'm sure the medication made that understanding a lot more possible.
00:37:22.84
Josh Hosler [he|him]
So I would just offer them my own story.
00:37:25.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, yeah, I mean, so often mental health treatment is just about allowing you the tools you need to have a logical reaction to things rather than a visceral or emotional one. I have had a bunch of EMDR because of trauma and CPTSD, it's called. Yeah.
00:37:49.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
And basically what's that what that does is make it so I don't have that fearful flinch reaction when somebody touches me.
00:37:57.03
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right.
00:37:58.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because I'll tell you what, when I first met H, he was my first good boyfriend in a very long time.
00:38:04.57
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:38:04.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
And anytime he would go to put his arm around me or move in for a kiss, I would flinch because my experience was, holy shit, don't lunge at me.
00:38:08.95
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Mm-hmm.
00:38:15.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
it's this
00:38:15.31
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:38:15.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
What are you doing? This is terrifying. And it really hurt his feelings.
00:38:20.41
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:38:21.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know, cause he's a good guy. And I talked to my therapist about it and she's like, oh, well, if you can stay sober for three days straight, then you can have one of these treatments.
00:38:31.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I was like, well, that sounds terrible. Um,
00:38:34.90
Josh Hosler [he|him]
But is it worth it?
00:38:38.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, well, and, you know, i had to decide, do I want to risk losing this guy that I could conceivably build a life with because I really like weed?
00:38:47.11
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Mm-hmm.
00:38:48.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Or could I take a little break and see how it goes?
00:38:50.77
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right.
00:38:52.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
And yeah, I did the second thing. I took the break and
00:38:55.58
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Mm-hmm.
00:38:58.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, it's it's an interesting therapy because the main side effect that you get like immediately is that you are exhausted. And you just want to sleep it off and let your brain like figure everything out that just happened.
00:39:13.17
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:39:13.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
But then, yeah, like my flashbacks went down, my hallucinations went down, and I was able to... you know, not be a friggin' basket case every time I went on a date with this guy.
00:39:26.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
of course, we didn't date for very long.
00:39:27.29
Josh Hosler [he|him]
able to not buy You were able to normalize him putting his arm around you.
00:39:31.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes. Yes. Which, you know, shouldn't shouldn't have to be a thing, but that's the world we live in, right? Because, yeah, we...
00:39:38.40
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yep. Start from where you are, not where you wish you were. Yeah.
00:39:42.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, we actually, we met for the first time after talking online. I met him at a dating website before smartphones.
00:39:48.09
Josh Hosler [he|him]
listen Yeah.
00:39:50.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then we met in June and then i ended up realizing, wow, I think I actually have a drug problem. I think I'm going to go to a place and see about that.
00:39:59.58
Josh Hosler [he|him]
uh
00:40:02.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
um And, you know, i reached a different conclusion ultimately, but then... H and I got back together to see each other again in July.
00:40:13.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
by October, we were living together. And I don't know who you were talking to from Olivet at that time, but I'm not going to list a bunch of names, but there were a lot of people that were like, you met some guy at a website in June and you're moving in with him in October.
00:40:28.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
What the hell is wrong with you? Are you ever going to get your shit together? And I'm like, no, no, you don't get it.
00:40:33.33
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Oh, yeah.
00:40:34.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
This is the one.
00:40:34.84
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right.
00:40:35.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
They're like, yes, of course.
00:40:35.77
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:40:37.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
We met the last one who was the one. And he he wasn't. He was not the one.
00:40:43.03
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Well, thankfully you got to be right about this one.
00:40:43.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
<unk>s so
00:40:47.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and you know, that's that's kind of my advice for all these like male loneliness epidemic incel people online that are sure the reason they're not having girlfriends is because they're too short and not rich.
00:41:00.04
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:41:00.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, dude, that's that's not it. Work on yourself, man.
00:41:02.74
Josh Hosler [he|him]
That's nice. Yep. Yep.
00:41:05.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
That isn't it.
00:41:06.35
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Mm-hmm.
00:41:08.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Okay. So... Oh, I have another religion question for you. Okay.
00:41:14.79
Josh Hosler [he|him]
OK. Uh-huh.
00:41:16.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, so how do you combat the narrative about Christians who behave as if they've never heard of Jesus Christ? You know, the the kindness, the welcoming foreigners, not coveting things, you know, all that there.
00:41:30.35
Josh Hosler [he|him]
All right. um combat the narrative, how could I do that? I mean, I'd be lying. I don't combat. like I just have to acknowledge that becoming a Christian doesn't automatically eliminate our human tendency to sin.
00:41:45.37
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I mean, and to put it in non-Christian speak, I mean, by sin, I just mean the fact that we're not perfect and we tend toward self-preservation instead of risky, self-giving love. I mean, even those kinds of Christians would have to admit that's true.
00:41:59.03
Josh Hosler [he|him]
They just have a very different idea of what constitutes sin, I guess. and And I think way too often it comes from believing things that they've been told about Jesus instead of actually reading the man himself or about the Bible, right? Instead of doing some actual critical thinking.
00:42:15.42
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um It comes from not being able to admit that the stuff of the real world of today is stuff that God, by definition, must know about and understand and be compassionate about.
00:42:27.32
Josh Hosler [he|him]
So, i mean, I'd be remiss if I didn't admit that I'm capable of some of the same shortcomings. i It's way too often I play it safe instead of taking risks. I avoid relationship instead of allowing myself to be inconvenienced by others. um That's a different set of problems from not welcoming foreigners and that sort of thing. but um i guess I guess it goes back to Jesus' thing about, you know, take the plank out of your own eye before you remove the splinter from someone else's.
00:43:00.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. Now, I find that interesting because as a member of Satanic Temple, the tenants, they're like 12, is it 12, 10?
00:43:07.33
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Mm-hmm.
00:43:14.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
Damn it, I'd have to look.
00:43:14.51
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Hmm. Okay.
00:43:16.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
But the thing is that there aren't rules that are commonly broken.
00:43:16.31
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Let me.
00:43:21.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because one of the things that struck me about Christianity is that you'd meet a Christian and they live with their boyfriend and they're not married. And we know people aren't supposed to do that. And the dominant thinking seems to be, yeah, well, we just, we do that.
00:43:39.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, well, wait, but you joined a church that says you're not supposed to do that.
00:43:39.86
Josh Hosler [he|him]
yeah i need do Do we know that because but who made that?
00:43:43.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
Why are you doing it? Like,
00:43:45.51
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Who made that rule? Right? I mean, it's not not living together before you're married is a time-honored Christian tradition. um It's not It's not a rule except in those traditions that make it a rule.
00:44:02.14
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um yeah As far as I can tell, the only rule is love. Love one another. Love one another. Love God. Love each other. that you love God by loving each other.
00:44:12.63
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um If there are other rules than that, there are rules that we have interpreted as being necessary for that first thing. And...
00:44:20.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, there's the 10 commandments, like that's pretty hard and and fast. And what I noticed about the 10 commandments, first of all, I think some of them are absolute crap. You know, I'll respect my parents when my parents become respectable.
00:44:33.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
But, um but there is not, or or maybe I'm, I'm interpreting it wrong, but.
00:44:33.11
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right, right.
00:44:40.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
um In the the Satanic Temple Tenants, one of the things says that the use of logic is inherently important, that it should take precedence over feelings or or beliefs.
00:44:50.53
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:44:54.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
And also that if you do something wrong, you have an obligation to write it to the best of your ability, to take responsibility.
00:44:54.79
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Mm-hmm.
00:45:03.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
And and i that's not in the Ten Commandments, right?
00:45:07.54
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Well, let me translate those into biblical speak. um The ancients would not have had any concept of the first one that you mentioned, right? Use logic over feelings is a very modern um way to put it, I think.
00:45:24.07
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I'm not even sure I could come up with a parallel.
00:45:26.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, sure, if you're talking about people that don't know where the sun goes at night, but...
00:45:31.10
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right. You know, exactly. So that's, of course, that's not in the Bible, right? It doesn't mean it's not a good, good rule to live by. um As for making it right, um you know, there's an ancient, ancient tradition going all the way back and and all the way back to things Jesus said about ah repent and turn around. I mean, that that word repent just means turn around and take a different path.
00:45:54.53
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right. As far as making amends, I think the later later Christian tradition really comes up with that sort of thing. But you'll find that in the confessional booth, right?
00:46:05.98
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um when When the priest tells you to to make amends. um
00:46:11.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
See, they didn't tell us to make amends. They told us to say the same prayer over and over again. Just keep repeating the the Hail Mary, which...
00:46:17.08
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Okay. Yeah. I guess repeating the Hail Marys is not going to fix the broken relationship with the person you
00:46:23.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, man. I mean, do have you ever said the rosary? It's enough to turn you against religion. if If you are easily bored, it's not a good way to spend a day.
00:46:31.58
Josh Hosler [he|him]
and We don't really have that. we don We don't have that particular set of prayers in the Episcopal Church. you know There is such a thing as Anglican rosary beads, but we don't really treat them with the same um centuries of of time-honored tradition.
00:46:49.34
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um
00:46:49.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
Good. Don't.
00:46:50.55
Josh Hosler [he|him]
you know Yeah, I mean... A priest friend of mine once pointed out that he thought that AA was one of the most important theological innovations of the 20th century.
00:47:01.21
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um And there you definitely find the that the that making amends is super, super important.
00:47:09.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, the thing about a a and NA as well is that it is some of the most actionable Christian content because people talk about higher power and, you know, 99% the time in a ah group meeting, they're talking about Christianity
00:47:20.11
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Mm-hmm.
00:47:28.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
and it's it's very hands-on. it's It's very like, okay, God is helping you.
00:47:32.89
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right,
00:47:36.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
What's he helping you do? What kind of timeline are you on? you know it's It's a kind of of actionable ah stuff that you don't typically, that I never got from church.
00:47:40.61
Josh Hosler [he|him]
right.
00:47:51.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know Church would say, hey, we're having an event and it's charitable and you should bring some cans of food.
00:47:51.66
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Uh-huh.
00:47:57.12
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right,
00:47:57.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
But not, you know, you need to make sure your community is fed. You need to make sure people are taken care of.
00:48:01.90
Josh Hosler [he|him]
right.
00:48:03.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, it was about a field trip rather than a way of life.
00:48:03.46
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, yeah.
00:48:06.42
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, and yeah know um a Muslim friend once said to me that there's a ah saying in Islam that if you go to bed full and your neighbor goes to bed hungry, that's on you.
00:48:18.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:48:18.63
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I'm just straight up, that's on you. Why did you allow that to be the case? and And I was like, whoa, that's that's putting it pretty directly. And I appreciate that a lot.
00:48:26.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:48:27.48
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, exactly.
00:48:27.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:48:30.07
Josh Hosler [he|him]
So, you know, but what I mean, hill I will die on, that's the that's the meme right now. You know, what's what's a hill I will die on um is is that Jesus didn't tell us how to love. He just told us to love. And all else is interpreting our present circumstances.
00:48:44.70
Josh Hosler [he|him]
So if making amends to the people we've hurt is how we love, great. you know Make that a rule for yourself. Make that your rule of life. I mean, the rule of life is an old monastic tradition that that you have these rules that are important for you to live by personally because you know yourself.
00:49:03.50
Josh Hosler [he|him]
You prayed through this and and you know what your program needs to be. Work your program um and don't stop. So i I think most of the quote unquote rules of Christianity um are assumed to be rules, not because they actually are rules, but because they are the rules that one particular tradition has interpreted as super important.
00:49:28.28
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I mean, United Methodists don't actually drink wine in communion to this day. And why is that? Not because Jesus didn't drink wine. It's because the Methodists were deeply involved in the temperance movement in the 19th century. That's it.
00:49:42.23
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And it's still an important part of their tradition. I'm not Methodist. I don't get it, but I see where it came from. Yeah.
00:49:49.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. Now, if you think back in the history, like the older history before the printing press, and and most people couldn't read, you know, most non-rich people couldn't read.
00:49:57.34
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:50:00.87
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right.
00:50:02.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
if Even if they did, they didn't have access to Bibles.
00:50:02.51
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:50:05.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
There were fewer offshoots of of Christianity then. I mean, there was pretty much...
00:50:09.93
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:50:11.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
just the Catholics.
00:50:11.33
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:50:12.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it wasn't until people got a hold of this information and looked at it and said, wait a minute, I don't see it that way. Like, I found out that the word hark in the Bible, which is usually what the angels first say when they come here,
00:50:27.10
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:50:27.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
that the actual translation is please stop screaming because when when people see an angel they are so bright and loud and intimidating that they are terrified so the first thing the angel has to say is for god's sake calm down it's not the end of the world i just need to tell you something
00:50:45.46
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I have got to look that up.
00:50:49.38
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I've got to look that up in Greek and see if you're right.
00:50:52.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, yeah, I don't tell me if I'm wrong because I love it so much.
00:50:55.86
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Okay. I won't say it. It's a better story if you just believe this one, right? that That's fine. Just stick with this.
00:51:02.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, don't don't tell Satan, but I'm going against logic.
00:51:02.26
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:51:05.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
In fact, I'm that one.
00:51:05.59
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah. Yeah. you You had the Catholics and you had the Orthodox, right? Those were through the two main groups. And 500 years before that split, you had the Eastern the eastern Christians in like ah the the Horn of Africa and places like that. um And that was an earlier offshoot.
00:51:22.42
Josh Hosler [he|him]
But yeah, and mostly the printing press is a big, huge factor in the Protestant Reformation because it's what enabled the peasants to read. Yeah.
00:51:34.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
fascinating it's i mean that's that's really where religion gets me is the history of it because it's so tied up with psychology and sociology and anthropology just the whole like well how did we get there
00:51:35.03
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:51:41.30
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Mm hmm.
00:51:44.54
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yes.
00:51:49.59
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Well, and ask yourself, you know, is it better to have like one huge church that controls everything? Or is it better to have 30,000 different denominations that are always fighting with each other? I'm not sure which is better. And so, you know, I don't want to have to decide that.
00:52:05.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and that's, I think, why the church for so long... I mean, there were money reasons and control reasons, obviously.
00:52:12.25
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, yeah.
00:52:12.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
But there's also the sense that, like, if everybody has their own interpretation... I mean, we still can't agree about the Da Vinci Code, let alone the Bible, you know?
00:52:23.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, there's... I mean, I don't know if you ever, like, hear people argue ah Well, but, like...
00:52:28.05
Josh Hosler [he|him]
It was a terrible book.
00:52:32.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
well and a worse movie but still but you know like there are people that don't feel as strongly about their religion as they do what happened at the end of the sopranos you know like religion is just kind of casual but if you say that tony didn't die they will get up and start screaming at you oh yeah that's
00:52:32.23
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah. Yeah.
00:52:45.91
Josh Hosler [he|him]
right
00:52:55.32
Josh Hosler [he|him]
or if you know yeah yeah or if you support the new york yankees that's that's a bigger deal yeah exactly it's not my brother that yeah
00:53:00.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, why the hell would anyone do that? Come on, man. ah
00:53:07.22
Josh Hosler [he|him]
yeah
00:53:08.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
um So one thing that you mentioned to me, and and this is a quote, that mental illness and Christianity can be a rich subject for both critique and hope.
00:53:18.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
I think we've covered a lot of the critique. um
00:53:21.14
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:53:21.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
So let's move on to the hope.
00:53:24.44
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, yeah.
00:53:25.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Now, I can say that getting help for my mental illness, not only was it life changing in that it was more manageable, but I was also able to discern how many things were not related to that and were, in fact, products of things that happened to me.
00:53:42.42
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Mm-hmm.
00:53:45.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Or that were inherent, like I was born with apnea, so I didn't get a good night's sleep until I started drinking, um because it like relaxed my throat and let me sleep properly.
00:53:53.03
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Wow, yeah.
00:53:56.98
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Mm-hmm.
00:53:57.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
um But really, it was treated by doctors in my 30s.
00:53:57.42
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Mm-hmm.
00:54:01.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
So to look back on that, that's one of those things that makes me really angry. Because it's like, oh, so I wasn't slow. i wasn't lazy. i wasn't not trying.
00:54:11.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
I was pretty much insane from not sleeping. And I was autistic. And I needed glasses. And just, you know, so many things that were like, I'd probably be the fucking president by now if if I hadn't.
00:54:23.19
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah. And would those treatments have been available to you in those years?
00:54:27.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, they didn't. The thing is, they didn't really know how to diagnose things like ADD or autism, particularly in girls.
00:54:33.66
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Sure.
00:54:35.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
But I do remember that I was so messed up at the time that they wanted to test me for things.
00:54:35.36
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right.
00:54:40.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
And my mom said no. My mom never wanted us to get treatment for anything.
00:54:43.31
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Mm-hmm.
00:54:45.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, she's a narcissist. She's a malignant narcissist. so and and it's actually me being raised by a malignant narcissist that made me think you know what don jr is secretly a good person and here's why
00:54:59.40
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I'm sorry that didn't work out for you. ah
00:55:02.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah me me too and it's it's interesting because it's this is about the two-year anniversary of when i finally said oh i am i am gonna put out the third book um
00:55:10.64
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Are you going to put out that third book, by the way? but Good.
00:55:16.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I keep saying I'm going to get it out by the midterms, but I said this like four years ago as well.
00:55:22.87
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:55:23.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, the thing is, when I started writing the third book, what it was supposed to be about was ah the main character, Jonathan Rowlett Jr., um was going to...
00:55:33.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
He had a a publishing imprint, and all the books were AI. And he was going to accidentally bring peace to the Middle East.
00:55:42.20
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Oh, no spoilers.
00:55:42.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I was...
00:55:42.86
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Just minute.
00:55:44.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I didn't do it because that's, I mean, the the book is a satirical, it's like a dark comedy and there's nothing funny happening over there.
00:55:46.14
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Okay.
00:55:54.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
There is, there is, if there is comedy over there, it is not my job to find it
00:55:59.54
Josh Hosler [he|him]
That's right.
00:55:59.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
um So i I just ripped it all out and started again.
00:56:00.46
Josh Hosler [he|him]
That's right.
00:56:04.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then, like, basically every idea that I had, they kept doing it.
00:56:04.61
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Mm-hmm.
00:56:10.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, it got to the point where I said, all right, you know what?
00:56:10.14
Josh Hosler [he|him]
No.
00:56:12.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Space aliens. I'm just going to make space aliens come from the sky.
00:56:14.50
Josh Hosler [he|him]
No. No.
00:56:17.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I will be goddamned if I did not wake up on a Saturday morning to a tweet from Big Donald and Little Don saying, if you see something up in the sky, you've got to shoot it because we don't know what it is.
00:56:31.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
like, you sons of bitches!
00:56:31.62
Josh Hosler [he|him]
You can't use anything anymore for satire. Nothing's funny anymore.
00:56:38.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, and like the first book was totally prescient because I called out the sedition and the fact that that stupid relationship with KG was actually real for a time.
00:56:38.65
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:56:43.19
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:56:49.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
hum and like But that's that's me, I'm prescient. Like when I was a kid, my favorite things in the world were sharks and zombies and serial killers. And everybody taught me that I was nuts.
00:56:59.02
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Well, there you go.
00:57:01.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
That I was dark and evil.
00:57:01.54
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah. We all love those things.
00:57:03.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I...
00:57:04.04
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:57:04.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, wait! I mean, what streaming service isn't being propped up by serial killer shows?
00:57:06.14
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right.
00:57:09.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
And everybody's got a zombie show.
00:57:09.78
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right.
00:57:11.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's like, you guys, I was telling you this. I was telling you this in the 70s.
00:57:15.70
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah. Yeah.
00:57:17.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
But then, you know, I make a big public blunder, like, thinking Don Jr.
00:57:17.95
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Well,
00:57:21.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
is secretly a good person. And then it's like, oh, that's why no one takes me seriously.
00:57:27.13
Josh Hosler [he|him]
what,
00:57:27.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
Whoops.
00:57:27.83
Josh Hosler [he|him]
would it help if i said i don't really believe in the binary of good people bad people
00:57:34.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, um and and I think that for the most part, we can't necessarily divide people into good or bad, but he enlisted his his daughter in helping him defend and protect pedophiles.
00:57:42.67
Josh Hosler [he|him]
exactly you know people i know i know that's not bad
00:57:49.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
So that that's bad. There's i there's no there's not good that can outweigh that kind of bad.
00:57:59.10
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah. And, you know, from a Christian take, it's no matter how evil I find someone to be, at least I need to hold out the logical possibility, even if I don't believe it myself, that there is redemption somewhere.
00:58:13.24
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um It's not up to me.
00:58:14.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
i
00:58:15.02
Josh Hosler [he|him]
to find
00:58:16.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
I certainly don't dispute that people can change. um
00:58:19.15
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah. Mm
00:58:20.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I think that, you know, it's it's kind of like with with alcoholics or or drug users that when they go through making their amends, the fact that you have changed and become a better person is is great.
00:58:24.59
Josh Hosler [he|him]
hmm. Yeah.
00:58:32.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
And congratulations, sincerely. it does not obligate anyone that you have hurt to forgive you condemn. continue contact with you, like people are still allowed to be like, well, you know what?
00:58:42.35
Josh Hosler [he|him]
That's right. That's right.
00:58:46.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
F you though.
00:58:47.35
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, you burned all your bridges with me, right?
00:58:49.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
00:58:50.97
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Well, yeah. So back to mental illness and and and Christianity, I'm just really sorry that happened to you. I wish that that had been available to you in in those years.
00:59:01.45
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I wish that your mom had nu been inattentive to you and to what your needs were.
00:59:07.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and that's ah that's the thing is that the the question becomes, all right, what did I learn? What can I do with it? And that's kind of why I'm here doing this show is to say, y'all, these are things that happen.
00:59:16.75
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:59:19.65
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Exactly. Yeah.
00:59:22.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
They happen to lots and lots of people and you don't have to be stuck there. If somebody had told me at 15 that I would be married to someone like H, I would not have believed it.
00:59:27.19
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right.
00:59:32.29
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
00:59:32.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
I would have said, oh you know what I would have said? I would have said, oh my god, did I lose weight? Is that how I was able to find a man? Because that was hammered into me so hard that not only will you not find a man, but that you should settle for any man who would have you because look at you, you're hideous.
00:59:49.33
Josh Hosler [he|him]
yeah yeah
00:59:51.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
So... Which, you know, I mean, again, raised by a narcissist, that's what happens. They'll say absolutely anything if they think it will influence your behavior in the ways that they want.
01:00:05.53
Josh Hosler [he|him]
yeah
01:00:05.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
so So that's something that like, we know how therapy can help that, but what what can ah a religion or a church community do for someone in that position?
01:00:18.20
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, um you know, i we we came off of criticism of religion and believe me, I'm the first to criticize the church for its historical shortcomings, current shortcomings.
01:00:29.13
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And right now that looks like preaching against Christian nationalism. You know, to some degree, it's about helping older folks who grew up in the era of Christendom to understand that everything has shifted in a few short decades and that
01:00:33.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:00:41.34
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Certain expressions of religion that claim to be based on Jesus are actively destroying people's lives. You know, um it feels really virtuous to insist that we Christians need to rise above our petty differences and all get along.
01:00:53.37
Josh Hosler [he|him]
But but these days, that's like saying lions and lambs should just lie down together. OK, lambs, open up the door to your pen and let the lions be in.
01:01:00.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes, exactly.
01:01:03.45
Josh Hosler [he|him]
So, yeah, i I think we've covered my impatience with people who think you can say, well, just trust in Jesus and expect everything to be magically fixed.
01:01:03.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
Exactly.
01:01:12.02
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I'm not i'm not saying miracles don't happen, but I've never seen a miracle happen through willful ignorance. So, yes, count me as totally on board the mental health assistance train. um So one crucial piece of Episcopal theology in particular, and I think this is Christian theology in general, but it's an area we really emphasize, is that it's incarnational. It's it's about...
01:01:35.74
Josh Hosler [he|him]
the core Christian belief in Jesus being rooted in the fact of his existence as a human being, flesh and blood, just like us. You know, that means Jesus breastfed and spit up and Jesus peed and pooped and farted.
01:01:48.24
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And Jesus played wild games with his friends at recess and he grew hair in private places and he sought out a alone time in the shower and and he got angry and indignant, right?
01:01:57.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
Did he hangk did
01:01:59.00
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Don't you think?
01:02:00.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
did he hang out with prostitutes? There seems to be some debate on that.
01:02:04.41
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Is there a debate? I mean, okay, so prostitutes aren't technically officially mentioned in the New Testament, but of course he hung out with prostitutes. That's exactly who he hung out with.
01:02:11.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I think i think the the question is that whether Mary Magdalene was a prostitute or whether that is slander because she was a close confidant.
01:02:17.46
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Oh, yeah, that's... Well... it the fact of the matter is there's no mention in the Bible of Mary Magdalene being a prostitute. That is a conflation of Mary's and of several different characters, including two people named Mary. That conflation was made by a pope who should have known better.
01:02:37.88
Josh Hosler [he|him]
you know, he should have been reading his Bible. But I don't, I mean, i while I assert that fact, I don't want anyone to interpret that as saying, well, Jesus wouldn't hung up with prostitutes. That's, of course he did.
01:02:50.52
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Of course he did. That's who he would hang up with. um So that's the that's the thing is that Christians are supposed to believe that there's no place in your life that's too hopeless for God to show up.
01:03:03.70
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um That's how it works. and and that And that God doesn't show up and magically wave a wand and fix it. um So I think that it's really strange that churches that speak the most loudly about Jesus can be so offended by the notion that we might feel something and then and then Jesus would understand it, right?
01:03:25.91
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um Mental illness is a real thing.
01:03:26.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:03:28.55
Josh Hosler [he|him]
It's it's human life. It's not demon possession. um you know yeah There are there are cases in the bible where jesus is casting out demons and now we think well maybe that was epilepsy for instance but it's just it's one of those things that can happen to us in the world so i hope you hear in my words both the critique and the hope right because i do think that that the christian narrative lends itself very well
01:03:48.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes. Yes.
01:03:54.01
Josh Hosler [he|him]
to being in that space of acknowledging that mental health issues are very, very real and just a part of who we are and not even necessarily a part of ourselves that needs to be excised and cut out and thrown away. um yeah what Would i be me if if I didn't have this the the set of characteristics that led me into anxiety and depression under certain circumstances?
01:04:22.33
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I want to care that much, you know?
01:04:27.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. Yeah. I mean, that that makes a lot of sense. It does. um Now, I know that during COVID, you were streaming sermons online.
01:04:39.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
And as someone who does not go out much, I'm curious to know, is that still going on?
01:04:44.82
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yes, absolutely. um I'd say the one thing about COVID that's been really good for churches is that we were forced to put ourselves out there online more than before and to actually learn that technology.
01:04:56.02
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um So Good Shepherd held Sunday services exclusively on Zoom and then streaming those onto Facebook and YouTube for a year and a half. And now that we have those systems, it's not that huge a lift to keep them going.
01:05:09.11
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I'm really grateful to the parishioners who take their turn in the organ loft working the video equipment. So we stream our services live on YouTube and then they're banked there. And you can find us by searching on Good Shepherd Federal Way. We're really easy to find.
01:05:22.87
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And then every week we extract the audio of the sermon and put it on our website, which is goodshepherdfw.org. Or you can find those sermons on Spotify. Just look up Good Shepherd Federal Way. By the way, Shepherd, I'm going to tell your listeners it's spelled S-H-E-P-H-E-R-D, not to be offensive, but I've learned that most people don't know how to spell Shepherd. I find that out every day in this job. So...
01:05:48.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I don't even think I spelled it right in your in your question form.
01:05:52.82
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Okay.
01:05:53.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
because Yeah, i would yeah i would spell it Shepard, like E-R-D at the end.
01:06:00.53
Josh Hosler [he|him]
that's That's right.
01:06:00.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
they're just
01:06:01.13
Josh Hosler [he|him]
That's right. S-H-E-P-H-E-R-D.
01:06:04.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
So there's no A in the word Shepard.
01:06:05.87
Josh Hosler [he|him]
There's no A on the word shepherd. Yeah. i always have to make people make sure people know that.
01:06:10.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's kind of like definite. A lot of people want to put an A in definite and there there isn't one.
01:06:14.35
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Definitely. It's irresistible to put an A in definite.
01:06:19.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah ah Well, you know, I'm a person who no one can spell my first name. It's, it's I mean, some people can, but
01:06:25.91
Josh Hosler [he|him]
learn to Didn't we all learn that in elementary school? Well, we all learned about apostrophes too, and nobody does those right.
01:06:30.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah yeah you'd you'd think, I mean, yeah. um Well, we we learned about pronouns too, but there are people that still can't grasp it.
01:06:35.30
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I'm loving dad, right? Yeah, oh my gosh.
01:06:40.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
That like, they, them, and their are singular pronouns. It's like, you understand it fine. You're being a dick. Yeah.
01:06:46.55
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I told you about my dad and and how pedantic he could be, and that's where I got that. But, you know, Bless him. He didn't live past 2020 and he never had to engage the question of singular they them because he wouldn't have been able to handle it. he would have He would have wanted to mean well. He would have wanted to love everybody and he still wouldn't have been able to wrap his mind around that.
01:07:12.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right. Now, you mentioned spending time with your adult daughter, and I was shocked to realize that she is an adult.
01:07:16.43
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
01:07:19.26
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yes.
01:07:19.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Now, I talk to a lot of people who are no contact from their parents because I am also that, and that's something that we share.
01:07:27.66
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um
01:07:28.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
And one of the things I notice is that the parents who talk about this... pretend to have no idea why it happened why there's an estrangement and i i think that i mean from my experience like bitch you know what you did um it is my take on that and i think that's that's true of of most uh in most situations that the parents know full well what they did
01:07:45.83
Josh Hosler [he|him]
yeah yeah
01:07:54.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
um So what I'm wondering is, as a ah church leader, you you must have encountered estrangements between parents and children.
01:08:02.12
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Oh, of course.
01:08:03.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
So ah ah how how do you tackle that?
01:08:03.54
Josh Hosler [he|him]
All the time.
01:08:06.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because I'm sure people come to you for advice on on both sides.
01:08:11.14
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Honestly, I think so much of my work with people who are going through things, especially things i don't have firsthand experience with, it it It has a lot more to do with holding a space and letting them just feel what they feel and express what they're going to express, process what they need to process. And so much of the time, I find that that's all that's asked of me.
01:08:32.54
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um I am i'm in no position to give people direct advice about things that they know far more about than I do. um I just think it's really the the art of listening is really underrated.
01:08:45.88
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um But I've certainly learned in my 12 years as a priest that just listening is usually 90 percent of what needs to happen.
01:08:46.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
Thank you.
01:08:56.09
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um So yeah, I'm constantly, I'm highly aware of lots of people's fragile family situations or broken family situations. And honestly, it's just about loving them through it and letting it be messy and helping them allow themselves to let it be messy.
01:09:16.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
Do you have um training in psychology? Is that part of of seminary school?
01:09:22.01
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Not enough. um yeah it's It's one reason why um it's there it's really kind of a an important thing for clergy, at least in my tradition, that if someone wants to set up time to talk with you privately about something, if they seek out counseling from me, um I'll meet with them three times. But after that, I'm referring them to someone who's actually trained in this.
01:09:46.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
I see. well because I know I hate you up for advice, especially if I'm having some sort of religious issue, like I need, you know, a different perspective.
01:09:47.51
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
01:09:57.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because I i try to always make sure that I have, that I'm in contact with lots of people who see issues differently than I do. I don't know how often do you listen to my show.
01:10:08.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
I had a guy come on here and defend Elon Musk. And...
01:10:11.96
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Oh, wow. Wow.
01:10:13.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:10:13.40
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right.
01:10:14.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. um So I think that's really important. and And the thing is that it's important to me to remind myself to be respectful to people that I disagree with, even when I disagree strenuously.
01:10:27.77
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
01:10:29.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
Obviously, some things are deal breakers, but many things are not, you know, and.
01:10:35.06
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, exactly.
01:10:35.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm
01:10:35.90
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Especially if there's a way that that if I meet someone I disagree with and there's a way that I can grow just by learning more about them, I don't want to burn that bridge.
01:10:44.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
hmm. Right.
01:10:46.86
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
01:10:47.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right, exactly. um We're just past the halfway point of the show, so I need to take just a short little thing here um and mention our donors, our biggest donors.
01:10:51.71
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Mm-hmm.
01:10:57.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
I won't say what amount that is because you have to go to the site and find out, but it's probably something most of you can work into your budget. So special, special thanks to Brianna Simmons, Lowkey, Nemu Ravenfall, and Allison Huff.
01:11:14.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
So thanks to all of you for giving us money to keep the lights on around here. Because, you know, we use that, we pay for the the web, the service and the page where we have our transcripts. You know, Zencaster, they charge us fees. And sometimes guests don't have headphones or a microphone. So we have to get one and send it out. And then that's a free gift they get to keep.
01:11:38.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
Plus, I would really like to be earning enough money that I can send gifts to the people who are guests on the show. And maybe one day to actually offer to pay people. Because, ah you know, people give us their time and they're so generous with their stories. And that's something that I really want to acknowledge in some kind of lasting way. I mean, even if you just get a mug with our logo on it, like, you know, like they do on Fallon.
01:12:02.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, not Fallon, because I wouldn't have Trump on. But, you know, other shows where they give out mugs. So yeah, that's the deal with that. But listen, I want to talk about music because I know that in college you were in the music program, that you are in fact a musician, and you are a rabid fan, and you love Weird Al.
01:12:16.92
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yep.
01:12:22.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
So we need to talk about all of that.
01:12:23.26
Josh Hosler [he|him]
So I'm in concert. Okay. didn't know that.
01:12:27.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, wait, first I got to ask you, did you know I'm taking drum lessons?
01:12:29.25
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Kudos
01:12:30.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, I'm doing it on YouTube now, but I'm learning the drum like I always wanted to when I was a kid.
01:12:35.61
Josh Hosler [he|him]
i didn't know that kudos to you.
01:12:38.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
H brought me a practice pad because it was one of those things like, remember when I got really sick in 2022 and I thought I was going to die and then I didn't die. And then I, last year i had all that heart stuff going on and you know, they did like surgeries on the inside of my heart, which is insane.
01:12:55.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
Um, and I didn't die. And every time I have one of these things and I don't die, I'm like, Ooh, I'm going to start a magazine. Ooh, I'm starting a podcast because I didn't die. I'm getting that puppy because I'm alive.
01:13:06.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
And so, yeah, this, this is my latest thing because I remembered that I wanted to take drums in school, like an elementary school and you needed to have your own practice pad.
01:13:07.48
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right.
01:13:17.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
And my mom didn't want to buy me one. So I got it into my head that a practice pad must be this really expensive specialty item. And, and,
01:13:25.85
Josh Hosler [he|him]
That's a block of wood with some rubber on it
01:13:28.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, it it is it is not. It is not. Well, I had to take the flute, and it turned out she thought flute was more, you know, girly or whatever, and i wasn't very good at it, and blah, blah, blah, blah blah you know, i don't i don't really music very well, but drums so far, i just have, you know, I'm learning the snare, basically.
01:13:30.49
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Oh.
01:13:47.45
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah. Oh, that's great.
01:13:48.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
so So, yeah.
01:13:49.11
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah. You know i forget
01:13:49.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
So I said I wanted to talk to you, and then I immediately started talking about myself.
01:13:53.35
Josh Hosler [he|him]
know, that's all right.
01:13:53.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's
01:13:54.30
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Well, it reminds me to mention my my goddaughter who just graduated from high school, that she came to play drums, not through the usual route of the the school band, but by joining a what's called the Rain City Rock Camp, ah which is, yeah, it's a summertime camp for girls and historically oppressed minority genders.
01:14:08.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, wow.
01:14:16.18
Josh Hosler [he|him]
that's that's ah I don't know if that's the exact wording, but that's who's welcome at the camp.
01:14:17.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
OK.
01:14:20.14
Josh Hosler [he|him]
and She learned to play the drums at that camp. The way it's structured is that all the kids show up on Monday, they all pick an instrument, and then they start writing their own songs as they learn to play these instruments.
01:14:32.86
Josh Hosler [he|him]
and At the end of the week, they put on a concert. It's... it's ah
01:14:38.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
That is fantastic.
01:14:39.51
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right. I mean, it's not like she became great on the drums in one week, but but the kids put on a spirited show that was a lot of fun. And then she came back to the camp the next year and the next year and the next year. and And after several years of that and practicing on her own, she got to be pretty good. So, yeah, I mean, when people take on new things that you might be great at or that you might suck at and you do it just for the joy of learning, i mean, isn't that what life's for?
01:15:05.68
Josh Hosler [he|him]
That's the point.
01:15:05.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and I think I was probably almost 40 before I started to appreciate the joy of sucking at someone, at something. Because, well, when I wrote my first book, when I finished A Stabbing for Sadie and started sending it out, my plan was to wallpaper my bathroom with rejection letters.
01:15:25.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that was how I looked at it. So every time I got a rejection letter, I'd be like, oh, this is going to go right over the sink. And...
01:15:30.95
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Uh-huh.
01:15:32.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
And i i I failed. I did not get enough rejection letters to wallpaper my bathroom.
01:15:36.03
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I'm trying to...
01:15:37.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
i ended up getting an acceptance probably about seven months in. So it's like, oh, did I fail at failing or did I actually succeed at something? I don't know.
01:15:46.31
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Well, yeah, but you you've um you framed it in such a way that you could call it success either way.
01:15:46.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
It depends on my mental health, how I'm going to frame that today. um
01:15:54.04
Josh Hosler [he|him]
So that's a good way to go. i You're further along on that than I am. I do not like trying things that I might suck at. um I really, really don't. and And I think that's one of the ways that I probably still keep myself a little too safe much of the time.
01:16:09.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and I think that you actually have a better reason to do that than most people because you are a leader in your community. you can't necessarily, first of all, you don't want to feel like a failure because you have an obligation to go out into your congregation and lift people up. And if you do that from a place of feeling like a failure,
01:16:28.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Not only will people notice that eventually, but you're just not going to be on the top of your game. You know, it it can be discombobulating to feel like, I mean, if it's just a hobby or whatever, that's one thing.
01:16:40.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
But, you know, if you get into like even community theater where other people are depending on you to do your part and then you have stage fright and it's like, oh, no, I'm terrible at everything and everyone will hate me now.
01:16:41.02
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, that's different. right Yeah. Oh,
01:16:48.65
Josh Hosler [he|him]
no.
01:16:53.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Dang it.
01:16:54.50
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Honestly, a lot of my job is about helping people try things and not be great at them, um but to do them with heart. um you know I'm constantly um giving people patience and forgiveness for little things that really aren't that big a deal, but that feel like a big deal to them.
01:17:12.50
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um And I think the issue is that Christianity is really, it really should be accustomed to talking about failure. I mean, look who we follow, right? i mean, remember for the Metallica song, The God That Failed?
01:17:21.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
01:17:25.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes.
01:17:25.75
Josh Hosler [he|him]
You remember that song? Yeah, that that song i he made a big impression on me.
01:17:27.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:17:29.35
Josh Hosler [he|him]
i'll Follow the God that failed. And I've used that in sermons. I've i've talked about how Jesus by all all appearances look to have failed. that then that wasnt that that That failure was final, that ended in death, right?
01:17:43.00
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And I think the important part of the story is that even failure that ends in death doesn't need to be failure. um I mean, look at Martin Luther King Jr., right? Did he fail at the age of 39?
01:17:55.32
Josh Hosler [he|him]
is Was he a failure? So I just said Chris was in the week.
01:17:58.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, you'd you'd have to say no because of the... Well, what what is the expression that no one truly dies until the last person has spoken your name or, you know, when you die when you're forgotten?
01:18:06.14
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right? Yeah. Yeah.
01:18:09.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's why I've always been so serious about, like, I don't have any kids. I have a body of work. That's what I leave behind. So I hope that enough of it matters.
01:18:16.15
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right.
01:18:19.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, that that's... Like, that's that's my hang-up, my intellectual vanity. I want to matter. I want to leave what I've touched better than I've found it by helping people, by, you know.
01:18:29.26
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And I think it's a vanity. I think that's just being human, right? But then what is what is it?
01:18:34.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
Is it?
01:18:34.40
Josh Hosler [he|him]
also very human.
01:18:34.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because a lot of people are human by protecting themselves. Like, their humanity is, you know, it's like Nazis. Nazis love their kids, but they don't love kids in general.
01:18:41.33
Josh Hosler [he|him]
You're
01:18:44.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
They don't care about people in general.
01:18:44.95
Josh Hosler [he|him]
right.
01:18:46.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
They care about their people, and that is all.
01:18:47.94
Josh Hosler [he|him]
that's alsoy that's also very human you're right um Yeah, yeah. And and the fact of the matter is that we're all, all of the stuff by all of us is going to be forgotten eventually.
01:19:00.21
Josh Hosler [he|him]
mean, there's...
01:19:00.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, goddammit.
01:19:02.89
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Huh?
01:19:03.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, did you know dogs actually do eat homework? Millie has devoured some of my book notes and I am horrified. Yeah, she loves delicious book notes.
01:19:14.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
Can you hear her? she's She's kind of growly right now.
01:19:16.12
Josh Hosler [he|him]
You have an excuse. yeah
01:19:17.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah ah
01:19:19.48
Josh Hosler [he|him]
but
01:19:20.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
Dear publisher, this is my dog. Here's what she did.
01:19:23.29
Josh Hosler [he|him]
yeah
01:19:25.82
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Okay, where were we?
01:19:26.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
So...
01:19:26.97
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Music career or something.
01:19:27.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
music you were going to tell us about your musical history
01:19:28.47
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, yeah. Sure. Okay. So, yeah, my degree from Olivet was music theory, music history, you know, composition. I got that degree with no plan for what to do with it because my parents always drilled into me. Learning is for the joy of learning. It's not for job training. You figure that part out later.
01:19:48.09
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um And I also had that in
01:19:49.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
wow that was expensive for that my goodness because i think olivette was ten thousand a year when we when we started it's it's
01:19:53.08
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Well, it was 10.10 or 10.5 or something like that. Yeah, so expensive.
01:19:58.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:19:59.45
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Whoa, yeah. um and and but But the thing is, I think you just trust that what you're learning in college, regardless of your major, is stuff that you're going to be able to apply when it comes to job training.
01:20:00.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
01:20:10.92
Josh Hosler [he|him]
It's not like you're starting from zero after that. um And as it turned out, I also had all that interest in pop music and radio and our experience together at W O C R. I mean, we had that radio experience together.
01:20:21.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:20:22.34
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And that's what kept me employed into my 30s. So, but for the music composition part, for me, composing since college has really been situational. um When there's a need, I write something. And in my world, that's been mostly within the church.
01:20:37.59
Josh Hosler [he|him]
This summer, my musician asked me to write something small for framing our use of the Psalms in worship. And so I wound up writing a few different things for our cantor and our congregation to sing in and around the verses of the Psalms being spoken. so That's sort of the typical thing that I that i do these days with it.
01:20:56.57
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And and that's it gives me a place for my creative energy, for sure, when I do that. Yeah.
01:21:04.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, well, you know, around this show, we're big believers in ah creativity as a means to, as as not just a coping mechanism, but a communication tool.
01:21:14.97
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yes. Yes, for sure. Absolutely. Yeah.
01:21:19.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
So now you have always had ah rather an encyclopedic knowledge of of music and the pop charts. Are you still following the pop charts?
01:21:28.06
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, gosh. And, you know, I learned at a young age not to bore people with all this talk, but I'm on an interview now. So, yeah, do I ever. um So when I was 12, I happened upon Casey Kasem, an American Top 40.
01:21:43.92
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And I was like, oh, a place where I can tape all my favorite current songs off the radio in the same four hour block.
01:21:44.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
Of course.
01:21:50.58
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right. but But after a few weeks listening, it occurred to me that if I wrote down the chart positions of all the songs and then did it again the next week and the next week, I could compare and see what things change over time and how they change. So I just started doing that every week and collecting the charts in a ring binder. And I just kept going for years.
01:22:09.85
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And um eventually that meant subscribing to Billboard magazine. So I could get the charts in the mail instead of having to listen to the radio and building spreadsheets with all sorts of chart statistics. And I guess it does for me what sports statistics do for others.
01:22:24.73
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And I only learned years later that, you know thanks to the Internet, you can find there there are online communities.
01:22:24.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, yep.
01:22:30.09
Josh Hosler [he|him]
a lot of people in their childhood had exactly the same idea and kept notebooks, with statistics and charts and and um and have run with it in different ways.
01:22:40.26
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um So I've just kept that up all these years. And the most recent turn in this hobby came when my godson pointed out to me that Spotify has a thing called the Billions Club.
01:22:51.54
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And it's a playlist that they just keep adding to of all the songs that have hit one billion streams over the course of their history.
01:22:51.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:22:59.35
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And that got me really interested in comparing how big a hit song was at the time it was popular to how big a hit song it has remained. And if you have Spotify, you know you can see that number for yourself.
01:23:10.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:23:13.02
Josh Hosler [he|him]
So I added a whole other section to my spreadsheets for tracking Spotify streams and putting that in conversation with all the older data through these really complex Excel formulas. And it's really, really fun.
01:23:23.83
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And I built hundreds of Spotify playlists that put all the songs from a really specific era in one place, all the styles, but the same slice of time. So you can experience that moment in time. So for instance, the summer of 1967, and my data tells me that was the best moment ever for pop music, like mathematical, right?
01:23:43.93
Josh Hosler [he|him]
So, but Spotify is in the doghouse with me right now because last year they were running recruiting ads for ice. So unsubscribed.
01:23:52.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh.
01:23:53.27
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah. Did you know that?
01:23:55.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
I don't have Spotify, but I am ah aware of it.
01:23:56.83
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Okay. No. Well, so I unsubscribed from premium and I took down my website. Um, but honestly, I left all my playlists in it. So if you look in Spotify and look up pop music anthology, you can probably find them.
01:24:10.19
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I just haven't changed them in a long, long time. um I don't know what would what it would take to convince me to get all that back up there again. Maybe once the fascists are out of power, you know, I'm imagining maybe there can be an ollie ollie auction free moment and I'll give another chance.
01:24:24.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
01:24:24.76
Josh Hosler [he|him]
All these corporations I don't give my business to anymore. I have no i don't know. i don't know. We'll have to. We'll see. ah
01:24:31.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now here's what I wonder about the pop charts. And this is something and I have joked about. When a song from the past shows up in a really popular movie or TV show, like that Family Guy episode with the birds, and we just envision the trash men, like the surviving trash men waking up one day and being like, what, how many downloads?
01:24:53.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
What?
01:24:53.82
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, yeah.
01:24:54.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Why? you know, because it would just be sudden and huge.
01:24:54.92
Josh Hosler [he|him]
That happened, right?
01:24:57.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, goo goo muck is another thing because, you know,
01:24:59.99
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, yeah. For a little hot minute there, yeah. By the cramps, right.
01:25:03.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, so does that factor in? Well, but a whole bunch of kids, like I ran into a kid on the bus, never saw him before, and my phone, you know, the little pop socket that goes on the phone so you could hold it, said Wednesday on it. And she was like, oh my God, Wednesday, like the show. Like, well, yes, but also my name is Wednesday.
01:25:23.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh my god, do you know that song, Goo Goo Mok? Like, do not speak of the old magic to me, child. I was there when it was written.
01:25:33.55
Josh Hosler [he|him]
You were there when he was writing the Narnia reference.
01:25:37.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
01:25:38.20
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um And Goo Goo Muck would have been bigger if if someone hadn't had the idea of replacing it with Lady Gaga's Bloody Mary and making that the meme, because that was when Bloody Mary became a pop hit.
01:25:52.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, okay.
01:25:52.41
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Did you know about that?
01:25:53.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, no, I did not.
01:25:55.03
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, like someone took the Wednesday dance and instead of Goo Goo Muck, they put in the song Bloody Mary by Lady Gaga, which was an old song.
01:25:55.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
I did not.
01:26:02.52
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And then someone did a sped up version and that got on the radio. And so, yeah, it absolutely does.
01:26:07.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, crazy.
01:26:07.84
Josh Hosler [he|him]
in fact Last week, Wonderwall by Oasis came back onto the top 40 because it was super popular as an unofficial FIFA World Cup anthem.
01:26:18.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, okay.
01:26:19.58
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah. So it's and all those Michael Jackson songs came back when the Michael Jackson movie came out and they're huge right now.
01:26:20.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
I see.
01:26:24.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:26:25.91
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um It's a bigger factor now than ever before because number one, streaming gives you that data. And number two, the current pop music scene really, really sucks right now.
01:26:38.23
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um there's just There's not much consensus for what's what's going to be popular. So it's kind of flattened the curve. And a lot of older songs have come back onto the charts because there's nothing to compete them out, if you will.
01:26:54.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now, is it that the music itself isn't as good or is it that the audience is so disparate that everybody's not because people are doing their own thing.
01:27:04.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
They're not all listening to the same radio stations. There's not Friday night videos telling people, you know, this is what's hot.
01:27:06.57
Josh Hosler [he|him]
That's right. Yeah. It's, yeah, it is the latter. You know, there is great music out there. When I, when I say the scene sucks, I mean, part of it has to do with pop music, radio programmers, not wanting to take any risks.
01:27:22.14
Josh Hosler [he|him]
So they'd rather play the same tired old song for a year than try something new. And so they,
01:27:28.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, yeah, because you don't want people to change the dial. Is there still a dial?
01:27:32.54
Josh Hosler [he|him]
yeah exactly.
01:27:33.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
i
01:27:34.07
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right?
01:27:34.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
who
01:27:34.43
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Which is why Ella Langley's Choose in Texas has been number one for 16 weeks now. and ok Okay.
01:27:39.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, see, that's really interesting because in movies, kind of the the opposite...
01:27:46.07
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
01:27:49.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's kind of the opposite is true. um Experimental films, especially like, you know, I'm a horror fan, so I watch a ton of horror. It's such an experimental genre now because it costs much, much less to make movies.
01:27:58.18
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Mm-hmm.
01:28:04.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
There are more places you can put your movie. You know, people are making a movie for $20,000 and it shows up on Amazon and Tubi and Shudder and all these different places.
01:28:13.49
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah.
01:28:16.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it's amazing. So even if I watch something, like there was a movie called Skinnamarink that a lot of horror fans were super into, I could not get into it. I thought it was slow and just, it did not hold my interest, but I'm so glad that it was made.
01:28:34.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, I'm so glad that we're taking those kinds of risks because every so often you're going to get an absolute gem.
01:28:34.61
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
01:28:42.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
i don't know if you saw Late Night with the Devil.
01:28:45.56
Josh Hosler [he|him]
No.
01:28:46.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, dude, you should.
01:28:47.93
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Okay, thank you.
01:28:48.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's because it's ah it's David Delmachian. I don't know how to say his name, um but he's a he was in Suicide Squad.
01:29:00.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
He's the guy with the mom and the dots.
01:29:01.75
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Oh.
01:29:02.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah And he's great. He is a wonderful performer. And it's a really like he hosts a late night show. You know, like a a talk show. He's the number two show. He's trying to be the number one show.
01:29:15.52
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Okay.
01:29:15.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
And he has a girl on the show that is supposedly possessed.
01:29:20.22
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Okay.
01:29:20.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, you know, hilarity ensues and also horror.
01:29:23.15
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
01:29:24.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
And there's a deep there's a debunker guy on there, and he's a total dick, like, you know, the old... What was his name? James Randi or something? Who was a musician and became a debunker.
01:29:36.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
orage Yeah, he was...
01:29:36.95
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I don't know.
01:29:37.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, there's a guy.
01:29:38.41
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Okay.
01:29:38.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
I think his name is James Randi. My friend Anthony would know. But he was a magician, like a stage magician. And then he became a famous debunker.
01:29:45.24
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
01:29:48.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
And he was... and So the guy in this movie is is based on him. Just the guy who shows up and is like... Well, you dumbass ignorant peasants, here's how you fell for that trick.
01:29:58.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, okay, dude, calm down. We get it.
01:30:01.98
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And also, how interesting.
01:30:02.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
it Well, because, I mean, I worked for a magician for a while, so I know, like, magician-y tricks and how a lot of it's, you know, done with lighting and, you know, little fans and stuff.
01:30:09.59
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Sure.
01:30:13.71
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Mm-hmm.
01:30:15.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
But, but you know, it's it's like Bill Maher in Religious.
01:30:15.95
Josh Hosler [he|him]
a distraction.
01:30:20.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's like, okay, I don't disagree with everything you're saying.
01:30:20.54
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Uh-huh.
01:30:23.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
You're making some good points. You don't have to be such a dick about it.
01:30:27.48
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, I don't have a lot of patience with Bill Maher. But there are people in my own tradition that I don't have patience with.
01:30:31.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, and...
01:30:33.88
Josh Hosler [he|him]
like We have this famous Bishop, John Shelby Spong, who i his the stuff he wrote was really valuable to me because it was all about treating fundamentalism as an actual enemy and not just as a problem, you know as ah as an annoyance.
01:30:47.25
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um But he could be such a jerk about it when when he was talking to people who disagreed with him that he just wasn't really making a lot of headway with anyone who didn't already agree with him.
01:30:58.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and see, that's the thing. We should have learned that lesson in the movie Night of the Living Dead, which is 1968, plenty of times.
01:31:02.97
Josh Hosler [he|him]
ah
01:31:05.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, you know what I'm talking about? Because there's the one guy, Mr. Cooper, and he's the one that says, this is bullshit. There's too many doors and windows. We need to go in the basement. But he is such a flaming a-hole that nobody listens to him.
01:31:18.52
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right. You if he wants to hear it, he's right.
01:31:20.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then it turns out he was right. That that was the place to go for safety.
01:31:22.45
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah. Yeah.
01:31:24.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, yes, it doesn't matter how right you are if absolutely no one likes you or respects you or will listen to you
01:31:25.12
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yep.
01:31:32.35
Josh Hosler [he|him]
It's also true, it's no matter how certain you are, it doesn't make you right.
01:31:32.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
So,
01:31:35.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah well, yeah, there's that.
01:31:37.59
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
01:31:37.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
um So you have a podcast with your daughter. Tell me about it.
01:31:42.83
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah. Yeah. Oh gosh. Yeah. I guess you could say that's what brought me back on the air. Um, so starting when she was seven, we would record a fake radio show and then send it around to our family and friends.
01:31:57.66
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And we used to bring her elementary school friends and her cousins on there as guest stars. And it was really perky and random and silly, and it had lots of sound effects. And think we recorded about 20 episodes over the years, but they were only for the people we knew. Right.
01:32:12.22
Josh Hosler [he|him]
So then in 2020, with the whole world shut down and and Sarah was now in high school, um I had a new idea. um Church was on Zoom. There was no programming specifically for the kids in our congregation. So Sarah and I sat down and created Bible Stories for Snarky People.
01:32:30.58
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um And it was inspired actually by Rick Riordan's books for kids based on Greek mythology. i you know She had been reading those and she was really into those.
01:32:36.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
okay
01:32:38.73
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And I thought, okay, these are really, they're presented in a way that's really easy to absorb um for kids, but is also like actually relaying what we know of the mythology fairly accurately. So I thought, why doesn't anyone do this with biblical stories, right?
01:32:56.54
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Probably because people think the Bible is really precious and boring and shouldn't be messed with. So we decided to mess with the Bible. um And the pattern was that I would read directly from the Bible and And Sarah would interrupt me with snarky comments and questions. And of course, we put in lots and lots of sound effects. um We were imagining an audience in the 10 to 12 year old range, you know old enough to know about sex and violence in the Bible, and also old enough to be respected for their ability to apply their own critical thinking.
01:33:26.78
Josh Hosler [he|him]
What I really wanted to do was bring seminary level learning to a younger crowd. um So we did like three dozen of these episodes or something. There there were two that I put a parental advisory warning on. um And one was the Sodom and Gomorrah story.
01:33:44.15
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Not so much yeah not still much for Sodom and Gomorrah as for the scene after that when Lot's daughters get him drunk and rape him. Yeah.
01:33:53.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
yep
01:33:53.78
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah. Do you you remember that? there was also There's also the story of the rape of Dinah. And on that episode, Sarah just blew me away. She noticed that Dinah, who is the victim, had no speaking role at all in the story or in the whole Bible.
01:34:08.82
Josh Hosler [he|him]
So she insisted when she noticed that, that she go off by herself and rewrite the story from Dinah's perspective in first person.
01:34:17.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
nice
01:34:17.78
Josh Hosler [he|him]
and And she did that and she brought it back and we just hit record and she read it cold and then we put music under it. There were no edits at all and it was really gripping and raw and I was a very proud dad.
01:34:29.50
Josh Hosler [he|him]
so
01:34:30.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow!
01:34:31.45
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, it was neat. It was really neat.
01:34:33.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
That is amazing.
01:34:33.01
Josh Hosler [he|him]
So we did. Yeah, we did a few dozen episodes of this. um We stopped when she graduated from high school. She's been in college. It's just been too hard to do. But um all of these are still on all the main podcast platforms, Bible stories for snarky people. And every now and then I like to go back and put one on just for nostalgia.
01:34:52.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow. I should listen to that with age I bet he would love that.
01:34:53.60
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah. I bet so. I bet so.
01:34:58.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right. So we're actually nearing the end of our time. And so this is the point where I ask if there's anything that you wanted to discuss that we did not get to.
01:35:08.12
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Oh, you know, um gosh, we have.
01:35:10.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
We covered some good ground, I think.
01:35:12.41
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I mean, there were there were things that I prepared for that we didn't quite touch on, but I don't know that I need to add anything else back in. um
01:35:24.03
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Gosh.
01:35:25.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, well, that that's okay. it's It's cool if we covered it.
01:35:27.29
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, yeah, that's all right.
01:35:29.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
um I also, I like to give guests an opportunity to ask me a question if they have one.
01:35:29.37
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Uh-huh. Okay.
01:35:34.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
So if you do, now is the time for that.
01:35:37.71
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Oh, gosh, I didn't prepare for that either. um
01:35:40.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
who
01:35:41.34
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Something to ask you, what is your biggest hope from from this podcast?
01:35:48.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh. Well, um I mean, on the one hand, I'd kind of like to support myself with it, but I don't know how realistic that is. The the main thing is is to to grow the audience because I think that so much of the information and perspectives that we showcase here really are helpful to people.
01:36:09.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, i don't i don't get a ton of mail, but when I get it, it's always so moving to hear from people.
01:36:09.59
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah, yeah.
01:36:16.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
We had a guest on recently with a stutter and it was difficult for him to to just show up and do it.
01:36:17.24
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right.
01:36:24.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
It was kind of a difficult edit because I didn't wanna hide that he had a stutter, but I also didn't want it to be uncomfortable for for listeners. So you know we we kind of struck a balance there.
01:36:35.58
Josh Hosler [he|him]
maybe
01:36:36.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then I immediately, like within a day or two of the episode, I heard from someone that said, my daughter has been putting off speaking publicly for you know X amount of times and now she's she's going to do it.
01:36:37.24
Josh Hosler [he|him]
a little bit more. Wow. Wow. Mm-hmm.
01:36:51.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I mean, there there is no greater gift than that to find out that someone heard what you did and that it helped them in you know some positive way.
01:37:02.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know, i I have a ton of intellectual vanity. So I think that I am powerful enough to go around changing lives and, and helping people do, uh,
01:37:09.31
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Good for you. Yeah.
01:37:13.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, it can't all be about spooky soaps, man. you you gotta You gotta do more tangible things.
01:37:17.86
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right.
01:37:20.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
Although we do help people with the soaps because, you know, we do the giveaways in the in the wintertime.
01:37:20.80
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Wow.
01:37:24.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
We do the helping families. And one year, like at the height of COVID, we sent out, I think, 50-some boxes, which for us, is that that's a lot.
01:37:35.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
And yeah, last year I think we only did like 30, which is, i mean, in a way it's nice because it means that the people in my circle don't know tons and tons of families that are struggling.
01:37:36.06
Josh Hosler [he|him]
yeah
01:37:48.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, there there were fewer struggling families.
01:37:49.47
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Right. Right.
01:37:51.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
I have a feeling this year will be a big year too, because basically what we do with that is we, um, people will tell us, you know, my friends can't afford to buy anything for their kids. And so we find out something about their kids and then we get a bunch of stuff together from the shop.
01:38:06.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
Um, kids, kids love our soaps. Like people say, Oh my God, what kid wants soap? But when you hand a kid a soap that looks like a gem with a skull inside and it smells like raspberries, you know, like everybody, everybody's down with that.
01:38:15.88
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Oh, absolutely. Yes.
01:38:20.02
Josh Hosler [he|him]
They might just never want to use it.
01:38:20.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
hum
01:38:21.62
Josh Hosler [he|him]
it might they might want to keep it.
01:38:23.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
There's that, but but they smell so good.
01:38:24.08
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Good.
01:38:25.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, you know, kids don't care. And parents tell me, like, oh my kids are scrubbing themselves. They want to take baths now.
01:38:30.78
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yes. Oh, boy.
01:38:31.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, yes!
01:38:32.26
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Okay. All right.
01:38:33.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's right. That's me making your kid less smelly. Woo-hoo! ah All right, man. So it is time for the Mad Lib. I hope you are ready for this. All right.
01:38:44.18
Josh Hosler [he|him]
all right
01:38:44.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Looks like we're going to start with some adjectives. I need one, two, three... for five adjectives, please.
01:38:53.46
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Five adjectives. Oh, gosh. Okay. The question is, do I just go for random or do I go for stuff that's kind of related to who I am? um Okay. and And the stuff that I'm involved with every day. Let's see. How about holy?
01:39:09.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right.
01:39:11.35
Josh Hosler [he|him]
How about slimy? Okay.
01:39:14.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. Oh, I'm so sorry. Stop it. No, Millie, no, I need that one. Don't don't chew up my notes. God damn it. Alright. Sorry.
01:39:24.05
Josh Hosler [he|him]
There's nothing about
01:39:24.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
So we got holy and s slimy. Alright.
01:39:28.09
Josh Hosler [he|him]
it. Okay, how about um belated? That's probably not going to work well, but we'll try it out.
01:39:35.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
And two more.
01:39:37.05
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Two more. um ah Happy and um unfortunate.
01:39:49.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
Alright, so I need some singular nouns. one two, three, four
01:39:52.72
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Singing. Okay. Four. Okay. Playground. um Building.
01:40:04.22
Josh Hosler [he|him]
um Walrus. And oh gosh. um How about forest?
01:40:16.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, and now we need some plural nouns. Looks like one, two, three, four, five, six. Goodness.
01:40:25.75
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Gosh, they're not all grouped that way, right? You're just giving them to me in sets.
01:40:29.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's right.
01:40:29.43
Josh Hosler [he|him]
six Six plural nouns. Okay. Books. ah Movies. um
01:40:39.38
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Cutting boards. i Go somewhere random here. um
01:40:48.44
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Airplanes.
01:40:53.77
Josh Hosler [he|him]
children's writing projects, if I may get that specific and podcasts.
01:41:05.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
all right we have person in room and that's always the guest and i need a number
01:41:11.22
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And number 23. Okay.
01:41:14.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
all right so this is called that's classified information all right got junk sell your unwanted stuff in our holy classified section
01:41:19.67
Josh Hosler [he|him]
time
01:41:28.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Today's slimy deals include a baby grand piano playground previously owned by legendary pianist, Reverend Josh.
01:41:39.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
but Oh, Reverend Josh belated hands. Oh, Hara. Asking 2000 books or best offer.
01:41:43.83
Josh Hosler [he|him]
believe It did work.
01:41:48.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
asking two thousand books or best offer A 23-piece collection of rare movies finely crafted from ceramic porcelain and gold-plated cutting boards.
01:42:01.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, horror movies, I'm guessing.
01:42:04.58
Josh Hosler [he|him]
right.
01:42:05.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
A cage, a feeding bowl, and a hand-knitted building for a pet walrus.
01:42:11.16
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Hmm. Hmm.
01:42:12.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
A happy mini-fridge perfect for holding bottles of airplanes...
01:42:18.07
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Yeah.
01:42:18.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
A used pickup forest with 100,000 children's, ah what what is this word?
01:42:25.95
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Writing projects?
01:42:26.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Writing projects. Yes, I can't read my own writing.
01:42:28.29
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Oh, Mad Libs.
01:42:30.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
And unfortunate bumper sticker saying, Honk, if you love podcasts.
01:42:38.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow. Okay.
01:42:39.32
Josh Hosler [he|him]
on the pa list
01:42:39.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
See? the Oh, yeah. Nothing beats the irreverence of a Mad Lib. I'm such a fan.
01:42:44.06
Josh Hosler [he|him]
like Yeah, I remember my brother and me making ah pop songs into Mad Libs. Like we would just take all the lyrics to a song and remove certain words and then do a Mad Lib. And I remember doing Can't Fight This Feeling by REO Speedwagon.
01:42:56.58
Josh Hosler [he|him]
And will...
01:42:57.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's what we did for our our wedding, actually. Our wedding favors were little Mad Lib books that were love songs.
01:42:59.74
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Oh, did you?
01:43:02.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:43:02.62
Josh Hosler [he|him]
There were love songs. the The line I'll never forget was, you're a leech in the smelly socks on a cold, dark night.
01:43:12.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
My goodness. Well, Josh, I am so glad that we could do this so that you could give us your time today.
01:43:18.14
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Absolutely.
01:43:18.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Thank you so much for being here.
01:43:19.86
Josh Hosler [he|him]
It is an honor and all my best to your audience. And I'll look forward to the recording so I can increase the size of your audience.
01:43:27.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right on. And then um we'll have links in the description for how to find the church and how to find the podcast and all that there. ah Hopefully you'll have a link tree so we can just use the one link.
01:43:36.86
Josh Hosler [he|him]
Great.
01:43:40.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Okay.
01:43:40.44
Josh Hosler [he|him]
I don't think have link tree, but um
01:43:43.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, um'm I'm making you get one. You don't have a choice.
01:43:45.56
Josh Hosler [he|him]
ah okay all right you'll have to teach me how to do that yes thank you
01:43:46.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
you You have lost your autonomy, sir. Sorry.
01:43:52.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right. Thanks, everybody. We'll see you next week.
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