Mentally Oddcast Transcript: Screenwriter and Movie Guy Eric Miller
Find an audio version of this episode here.
Find more from Eric Miller here.
00:00:01.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
You are listening to the Mentally Oddcast. My name is Wednesday Lee Friday, and we are found on Ko-Fi. That's K-O-F-I. Do pop by and show us some love.
00:00:12.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
This week, we have Eric Miller. Eric Miller's first brush with literary fame occurred when his grade school writing assignment about a bright bloodthirsty executioner's block earned him a trip to the principal's office. Isn't that always the way? Years later, he wrote the screenplay for the sci-fi channel hit Ice Spiders, among other genre films. His first novel, Whatever Happened to Uncle Ed, was called an effective blend of comedy, heart, and scares that defy expectations.
00:00:45.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
Miller lives in Los Angeles, where he continues to write and work in the TV biz while ignoring advice from authority figures. Welcome, Eric.
00:00:55.16
Eric Miller
Thank you very much for having me.
00:00:57.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, it is our pleasure. Oh my gosh. We're definitely going to talk about ice spiders later. I don't know if that's something you would encounter a lot where you say, I wrote ice spiders and the person says, Oh my God, what?
00:01:07.06
Eric Miller
Yeah, actually.
00:01:09.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
Really cool. um
00:01:11.19
Eric Miller
You know, shockingly, shockingly, it is still to this day. I'm like, what? You actually watched that? You saw it? No, it's a very pleasant surprise. And if somebody would have told me at one point in my life that that might be might be the highlight of my career, I'd be, are you kidding me? What have I done wrong? And now I'm like, you know what? I love it. I own it. And it's it's good, bad fun, as we like to say.
00:01:30.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, ah at our house, we are great, great fans of B-movies. I have Thunder Levin's autograph. I have an autographed Sharknado script from him because that is just how far I get into these things.
00:01:45.40
Eric Miller
Wow, wow.
00:01:45.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:01:45.92
Eric Miller
have you Have you had Anthony Ferrante on by any chance, the madman director of those?
00:01:50.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, no. You know what? um i'm I'm pretty small time still. So usually people who have heard of me only heard of me because my name is weird and they remember it.
00:02:04.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
so yeah, I'm getting there though.
00:02:06.42
Eric Miller
Well, you know what, the thing that the thing I've learned about working on a lot of B movies, both as a writer and behind the scenes on the crew and just knowing so many people in the film and TV industry for years is that we're genuinely mostly really nice people and are usually generally shocked to that people appreciate and love what we do.
00:02:06.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, my...
00:02:24.28
Eric Miller
so if you don't feel bad, reach out to pretty much anybody.
00:02:27.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's weird.
00:02:27.72
Eric Miller
And I'm sure people, yeah, people will just go, what you want to have me on?
00:02:29.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
Even the, ah well, even people whose work have has really taken off, when I talk to like Russ Streiner and John Russo and Kyra Sean, like those folks from Night of the Living Dead, they're all so unassuming. it They're not like...
00:02:47.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
oh, well, yes, I gave the world zombies. Kiss my ass now, please.
00:02:51.48
Eric Miller
Yeah.
00:02:52.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, they're they're all just so personable and and great. So that's kind of what I expect. Like, I don't know if you talk to Mick Garris online, but Mick Garris is pretty active on the meta platforms.
00:03:05.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
And so I always feel like I'm learning something new from him. And he's kind of the same way. Like, really? You loved Psycho 4? You, like, loved it? Like, what?
00:03:14.65
Eric Miller
but You remember it? ah You did.
00:03:16.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:03:16.70
Eric Miller
I did what? No, I've actually never spoken with him online or in reality. I think we met briefly at a party at one point years ago, but just different orbits. But I've always heard that about him and very much respected the the work that he did and has done and still doing.
00:03:28.98
Eric Miller
So it's actually great to hear that he's he's just one of us because you know what? Most people in film and TV are just someone from a small town or the Midwest or the East or somewhere that just had a dream and wanted to go make something and tell a story, you know, writers as well.
00:03:41.58
Eric Miller
and And it's, yes, there are a few ridiculously, disturbingly arrogant people out there that think they're God's gift to the universe. And, you know, you can't look at me, these kind of things, or yeah you can't be in the same, you can't be in the same elevator as I am at the same time.
00:03:53.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
but James Patterson. Oh, excuse me.
00:03:57.74
Eric Miller
And, you know, I have a very good habit of not being really polite to those kind of people when it does happen a few times. But in In general, most people, even big shot celebrities, they're not who you think they are.
00:04:08.10
Eric Miller
They're playing a part. They're really genuinely nice people. And they, you know what, speaking of mentally oddcast, they have the same imposter syndrome a lot of the times that the rest of us do. So, you know, it kind of, it kind of flavors things a little different when you're watching and listening people to realize they're just like me.
00:04:22.68
Eric Miller
They're just like you. They're just like us
00:04:26.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, let's hope they're they're a little bit better than me because I want to look up to them. um But that's me.
00:04:31.80
Eric Miller
Yeah, exactly. i have I have delusions of adequacy.
00:04:32.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'm a...
00:04:35.12
Eric Miller
So yeah, I hope that they're a little bit better than me. But but i'm i'm the I'm the fan first and foremost. So I love promoting people that just blow me away. And there's so many of them that do. So that's very glad to hear.
00:04:45.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right on. Well, on that note, we typically start the show by asking guests to tell us about the first horror movie that they remember seeing. So this should be good. Let's hear it.
00:04:56.73
Eric Miller
You know, it's i was thinking about this. It's really kind of lost in the midst of time, being that I'm kind of losing myself in the midst of time these days and dating myself. But it was probably, I always go back to, I'm going to have to guess that it was probably something like either some of my favorite movies still, either The Haunting of Hill House, the original 63 Robert Wise, maybe Them, which is still the top of my favorite movies of all time, the Giant Ant movie.
00:05:23.64
Eric Miller
And and and it could you know what?
00:05:23.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice.
00:05:26.00
Eric Miller
It also could have been pitting the pendulum on late night TV. So it's it's there's kind of a mix of things that I don't know what one is going to rise to the top and I might remember what really freaked me out.
00:05:36.32
Eric Miller
Oh, you know what? There it did. It just rose to the top. The fly, probably original black and white fly, the ending of which still freaks me the hell out to this day. So here we are.
00:05:47.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow. Okay. there Lots to unpack there.
00:05:52.44
Eric Miller
Yeah.
00:05:52.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
Pit the Pendulum is actually my all-time favorite Vincent Price movie. I love that one. And it's weird because it really, I mean, compared to the source material, there's a Pit, there's a Pendulum.
00:06:06.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's pretty much it.
00:06:07.16
Eric Miller
ah
00:06:07.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
But, well, but it's ah it's a Richard Matheson script. So, I mean, that guy can do anything.
00:06:14.68
Eric Miller
Well, another, just one of my absolute heroes. i'm ah I'm a giant, like I said, haunting fan, but also hell house fan. And I always look at those two as kind of the twin books of of haunted house fiction.
00:06:26.32
Eric Miller
There are so many more, of course, not sliding anyone, but the fact that they're about 10-ish years apart and one is very 50s and gothic and back and the other one is very 60s, 70s, kind of swinger B-movie, bright colored vibe, but they're essentially the same book.
00:06:27.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure, sure.
00:06:40.84
Eric Miller
And I just always love what Matheson pulled off with that. and in that same genre, so different than Shirley Jackson and so many other great things like this. We always forget not just own his own originals, but his adaptations.
00:06:52.47
Eric Miller
Like, wow, what a talent.
00:06:55.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep, very much so. All right. So yeah, so similar foundation to me, because I would say like my my trilogy of horror that's, you know, my my main ethos, Night of the Living Dead, Psycho, and then much more recently, The Mist, I think is damn near a perfect horror film. It even fixed the stuff that was wrong with the the original story.
00:07:20.95
Eric Miller
Yeah, interesting. Well, I don't want to make anybody mad. This is just an opinion. i actually love Thomas Jane and I love the movie. I'm sure you're talking about the Thomas Jane version, I'm sure.
00:07:31.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep, yep, that's the only one.
00:07:31.03
Eric Miller
i I will respectfully disagree with the exact ending. Personally, I think it kind of invalidates the struggles that everyone went through for kind of a, to me personally, to me for kind of a gimmicky ending.
00:07:45.04
Eric Miller
But I am much more a fan of just walking off into the mist. Spoiler alert. And i I don't know where most people stand on that. And it's always open for opinion. But Again, I'm more of a fan of we just don't know what happened as opposed to the brutally harsh ending in and that.
00:07:59.60
Eric Miller
But up to that point, I love it. I think it's great and one of the most effective things ever, both story and film. um So and and again, Thomas Jane pulls it off. The guy's a real, real talent.
00:08:08.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, yeah. Yeah, and I can certainly see that point, because when you deviate from the written ending that severely with something so nihilistic, not everybody is going to like that. Now, personally, i think a horror ending where the lead character is screaming in anguish...
00:08:32.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, that's, that's what horror is supposed to be as far as I'm concerned, but, but yeah, there is a, certainly a ah finality to it because not only do we lose, I mean, I love Jeffrey DeMutt.
00:08:36.41
Eric Miller
Right, right. Yeah.
00:08:44.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
I can't, I can't help it. I love him in everything. So it, that's tragic. You know, you don't want to lose him or, or Francis Sternhagen either. I mean, they're both such great character actors that when you see them in anything, you you kind of want them to make it, but, uh,
00:08:54.07
Eric Miller
yeah
00:09:00.95
Eric Miller
Right, right, right. well Well, that's the beauty of of, I think, wisdom, getting a little bit older and watching things. You know, when you're younger, you're like, that was the wrong ending. I hated that ending. It wasn't like the book or whatever. But there have been multiple versions where, in my opinion, the TV, the movie has done better than the book or movie. Sometimes I hate what they change. Other times, but now they can both exist to me. They both exist in my head. And I appreciate that somebody took, I think Frank Darabont took the creative chance in this and just went for it. And whether whether I particularly like it or not, I do o admit that it actually works.
00:09:34.02
Eric Miller
It's great. It may not be what I preserve prefer. there are There are some things, there are some works where I think we all want to go back. I think the, again, at being a gigantic fan of the new Battlestar Galactica series until the literal last episode, I wish I could do a... a GoFundMe and reshoot the last episode of it. But that's me just being, you know, just a little peeved as a fan and maybe not appreciating as much, but I get what they did and why they did it and how they ended it And there's a world where that exists and lives. And my opinion counts to me and maybe a few friends, but not others. but But if I have a choice, let's just don't fly the hospital ship into the sun and live in tents on the African Savannah next time around, you know, if we have a chance, guys. Thanks.
00:10:17.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and don't pose all those questions about Starbuck if you have no intention of answering them.
00:10:23.26
Eric Miller
Right, right, right.
00:10:24.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, I'm okay with a little bit left up to my imagination, but first of all, little Adama? That guy was robbed. I mean, that guy got no happiness after all of his efforts.
00:10:36.05
Eric Miller
got Yeah, he got robbed.
00:10:41.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
He really did
00:10:41.56
Eric Miller
Oh, no kidding. what ah But what a terrific, amazing show, even you know even with that ending. And I have to say, at the same time, um one of one time where the movie did, again, my opinion, I think the Watchmen movie.
00:10:56.79
Eric Miller
did the ending way better than the comic book. What was the giant purple space monster that didn't tie anything and into the story?
00:11:02.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-mm-mm-mm-mm-mm.
00:11:03.21
Eric Miller
The movie the movie ending tied everything into the story and characters, which I am a big fan of in all fiction. and And whether it's gratuitous violence, gratuitous gore, gratuitous sex, whatever. I don't like anything gratuitous. I like things that are integrated into the story and plot and that ending making Dr. Manhattan be the spoiler alert, be the bad guy.
00:11:23.42
Eric Miller
That was brilliant. And it meant so much more than the giant purple space monster. But, you know, i'm I'm not worthy of creating the space monster of any kind or Dr. Manhattan. So again, just a dumb opinion from a dumb fan.
00:11:36.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, where would fandom be without our opinions? And it's an interesting thing because when I was a kid, being a fan meant that you really super loved something, that you knew as much as you could know about it, and that you would hype it and and love it. And now fandom is very different, and fans, particularly fans our age, like fans 40 and up, you know?
00:12:05.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
much more likely to consider themselves an expert on why something sucks now. You know? and And I'm sorry, fellas, but Star Wars just isn't going to hit you the same way now that it hit you when you were 10.
00:12:19.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that's not the movie, brah. That's you. So...
00:12:22.40
Eric Miller
Yeah.
00:12:23.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah So, yeah.
00:12:24.54
Eric Miller
Yeah, very, very much. Well, don't forget that the word fan is a derivative of fanatic. So, I mean, that's where it comes from. And, but I would hope that as we get a little older, even though I will not publicly admit to being older than 28 years old, when you do get older, I would hope that we all get a little more, a little bit more mellow, like I am.
00:12:32.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah...
00:12:37.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:12:43.29
Eric Miller
And like I said, be able to see that different things exist in different ways. And, You know, and I even go back and sell my own things that I've written. and i have the luxury, unless they've been published, of going, oh, crap, I should have done this. And I'm famous for doing that and changing something.
00:12:56.10
Eric Miller
So I think there's probably a lot of writers out there who do the same thing. A lot of filmmakers, oh, would i would I have done this? Yeah, but you just have to own it. But then you wonder if some of these people have made a you know, multi-million dollar movie and get up in the multi-hundred million dollar movie and get up in the middle of night and go, wow, I really blew that one.
00:13:12.53
Eric Miller
Jeez. Yeah.
00:13:14.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and you know, some people make it a ah mistake or an error or have like an incongruity in their story and they just go with it unabashed. I mean, i hate to bring up the grand turf, but Harry Potter, right?
00:13:24.31
Eric Miller
Yeah.
00:13:29.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
i Spoiler alert, Harry is a horcrux, which means that When he got hit with the Basilisk Fang at the end of Chamber of Secrets, he should have just died.
00:13:40.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because we know now that the Basilisk Fang kills Horcruxes and that, you know, that's just a huge gaping plot hole now.
00:13:50.01
Eric Miller
Yeah, yeah. Well, what what that brings up, though, is one of the beauties of horror fandom, though. um And I hate inconsistencies, but there's inconsistencies in my own work. And sometimes you write or direct or act your way into a corner that you can't get out of and you just go, whatever, let's hope they don't notice anything. but horror fans, genre fans in particular, are the most forgiving fans of all. They will literally be howling for figurative blood. And that's the worst movie ever. This filmmaker, writer, whatever. Terrible book, terrible movie, horrible. I hate what you did to the character. I only watched it 62 times and bought 19 different versions, and I can't wait for the new version to come out.
00:14:25.98
Eric Miller
So, you know, love it.
00:14:26.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right?
00:14:27.46
Eric Miller
Love it. Love us. I'm one of them.
00:14:28.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
Jason Voorhees, anyone?
00:14:29.02
Eric Miller
You know, I
00:14:31.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
00:14:34.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah...
00:14:34.94
Eric Miller
i'm I'm personally a ah big fan of Jason Goes to Space, whatever number that was, whatever. That has one of the most brilliant couple sequences in it I've ever seen.
00:14:43.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's a 10, right?
00:14:43.46
Eric Miller
So I might be, i've I've lost track over the years. But the whole Jason on the holodeck sequence is just so completely inspired. I just, you know, hats off to them for pulling that off in the middle of, you know, what could just be a forgetful kind of maybe dumb, let's make a bunch more money kind of a sequel.
00:15:01.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, but like that franchise really went for it at the end because the one where he's body jumping, that's amazing.
00:15:01.13
Eric Miller
And they actually did something fun and interesting with it.
00:15:10.08
Eric Miller
Oh, yeah.
00:15:12.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like what else can you do with this French?
00:15:12.60
Eric Miller
Yep.
00:15:14.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, what do you know? you thought of something new to do with the franchise. And that's much more impressive. Like overall, I would say if I sit down and watch a Friday, the 13th movie followed by a Halloween movie, I find the Halloween movies to be scarier.
00:15:31.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
i think the sound design and the the music and soundtrack are scarier. um But as a whole, if you look at the progression of a franchise and what they've done with the character, Friday the 13th is way out in front.
00:15:48.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because Michael Myers, that mythology just got ridiculous with the child.
00:15:48.34
Eric Miller
Yeah.
00:15:53.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
and I mean, after like, you know, four and five I can live with, whatever. But beyond that, it just, bleh, terrible.
00:16:02.58
Eric Miller
Yeah, and i have to I have to admit, I haven't watched the latest entries, so I'm not well qualified to talk on that. But you are correct that, I mean, think about um Jason as well, the first movie.
00:16:13.78
Eric Miller
Again, i think the entire planet's seen it by now. Even people who've never watched a horror movie know about it.
00:16:18.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
I hope so.
00:16:18.58
Eric Miller
But the the Jason is not the killer. like Like, it's his mom. like Like, what an amazing start to a series. And just, it was smart smart from the beginning.
00:16:26.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and it's it's a reverse psycho. That was the thing that I was i was a little bit older when I realized what was actually happening. And instead of the son becoming the mother, the mother becomes the son.
00:16:40.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then fans get to speculate for the next however long it's been how the boy was alive.
00:16:47.26
Eric Miller
Yeah.
00:16:47.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
If the whole point.
00:16:47.71
Eric Miller
Yeah. And there's a,
00:16:48.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
But and there's so many theories because there's the one that says that she treated him like he was dead because the accident, the drowning disabled him.
00:17:01.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
and And it impacted, you know, his brain didn't have oxygen. So he was, you know, impaired after that. And she treated it like a death, which doesn't translate very well into, ah you know, contemporary society because we're a little bit better at dealing with people with, you know, special needs and impairments.
00:17:23.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
So to get this idea that like, oh yeah, she just wrote him off as dead and started killing people. Like, wow.
00:17:29.53
Eric Miller
Yeah, and and her her clinical diagnosis skills were obviously lacking, if that's true, because later on when he's you know basically running, vaulting and doing superhuman things, he's obviously not. but I'd like I wish I was that impaired.
00:17:42.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right? Right?
00:17:44.20
Eric Miller
No kidding.
00:17:44.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, you know, i'm I'm beginning to think that that mass murderess isn't very nice.
00:17:44.80
Eric Miller
Well, there's. Well,
00:17:50.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
not Not particularly inclusive. um So if we can get a little more serious, um I was going to ask you about living with clinical depression.
00:17:55.42
Eric Miller
well
00:18:02.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
And what you actually told me before we started recording is that you are not currently living with clinical depression. Now, I view depression as something that is not cured.
00:18:11.32
Eric Miller
well
00:18:16.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's it's merely managed. So what what do you want to tell us about that?
00:18:19.99
Eric Miller
Well, I will agree with what you say there. I may have misspoken a little bit. I had it much worse when I was younger. And I remember it also runs in my family, various various to various degrees of certain people. And when I was younger, was much worse. And I remember being told that you're kind of screwed because it only gets worse with age. And I've had the opposite effect in some ways, either through life and Life medicine, whatever whatever else has led me to be a lot better.
00:18:47.94
Eric Miller
So yes, I do agree. It's in the background. I haven't taken a pill for probably decades. i haven't needed to take one. I do have my downs 100%, but like everyone does.
00:18:57.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
Thank
00:18:58.84
Eric Miller
But as far as the pure clinical depression, I haven't had an episode of that that I'm really aware of. for a couple of decades now, at least. And that's refreshing, but also it is in the back of my head. It's there. It's in my genetics. It's it's definitely lurking around the corner and I keep a watch for it. And I make sure to do the things that, you know, and there is there if there's a cure, it's not out there yet, but there are things that make it better. And that's what I always like to tell people who are either new to it or still suffering for it.
00:19:27.61
Eric Miller
I empathize more than most people ever could because I've had it. My mother had it very bad at times. Other family members, have lot of friends, I've had a few suicides and friends that were like so extremely clinically depressed, which still is terrifying to this day. I've never been to that level myself, but I'm at least a sympathetic ear. But I also know that when we suffer from it,
00:19:51.16
Eric Miller
We have to make ourselves do the things no matter how hard it is. And believe me, I know how hard it can be to just get out of bed or take your next breath some days. But you have to do the things that will help make you at least a little bit better and make things worth going on. And that's getting up, seeing a friend, asking for help.
00:20:10.90
Eric Miller
doing whatever a doctor might tell you or some kind of a health care practitioner, getting sunlight, being around friends, listening to music, whatever your personal jam is, whatever helps you makes you feel a little bit better, but just get up and do it and try. And again, having said that, it's right around the corner. It could rise up and bite me at any time, at any day. And I'm very aware of that. And it's lurking in the corner. And that's a little bit scary in and of itself, but I refuse to be the victim of that. If it does come back, I will deal with it. I will meet it head on like I do many things and I will fight it to my best of my ability and I will reach out. I won't be as hesitant as I was when I was younger to reach out and say, hey, I need help.
00:20:52.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. So it sounds like you were diagnosed when you were a child. is that Is that accurate?
00:20:58.99
Eric Miller
I'm late teens. My worst period was late teens through mid 20s. And right when I right when I'm.
00:21:06.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. That is typically when it it tends to present. that's That's true of clinical depression and also bipolar disorder tend to present in the teens, which is why it's difficult to...
00:21:19.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
determine whether or not treatment is necessary just because your teens kind of suck no matter what, you know, you're going through a lot and yeah.
00:21:25.56
Eric Miller
Yeah, no matter what you do, you're a raging You're you're a raging mass of hormones. Your body is growing and changing. Everything about your life is changing. You're becoming an adult. All the social cues are different. And then you get a little bit older, you're leaving home. You're leaving those sometimes leaving home, leaving the support bubble, either going to college, getting a job. moving in with a friend or sometimes just moving to the basement with there's no shame in that at all because there's safety. But all of those things are going in. It is you're right. It is like, how do you diagnose there's actual depression in there when there's just such a chaotic madness mentally and physically going on in your life?
00:22:01.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
So what led you to get treatment?
00:22:05.75
Eric Miller
You know, I just reached a super low point. I, again, saw friends and family members going through it. And then at a certain point, I think to people who haven't suffered from it, what you don't understand is your ability to recognize what's wrong with you is impaired. The thing that gives you the ability to see yourself and understand is what's being attacked, which is your brain. And it doesn't want you to admit that there's anything wrong. It, you know, that dark passenger or whatever you want to call it, either from a you know a fictional standpoint or a reality standpoint, that dark part of your brain wants you to get darker. It feeds off that. it's It's like a virus in some ways. And the virus doesn't want to get better. The virus wants you to get worse. So first off, you can't even recognize there's something wrong with you. And then when you do,
00:22:51.64
Eric Miller
The things that help you get better, doesn't even let you do that. It isolates you from your friends, from your family. it You don't want to talk to people. You don't want to do the things you enjoy that make you want to make you get better.
00:23:02.83
Eric Miller
So in my particular moment, I just realized it was just I was in such a dark, dark place that I just felt like I couldn't go on. I wasn't suicidal or anything. And I know so many people, again, who have been and talked to people, and that's a completely different mindset, which I'm not qualified to talk about, even though I've been close to it a few times. But it i I didn't want to go that far. I didn't want that to happen to me. And I realized that I wasn't being able to function. i wasn't being a good person. I wasn't being a good friend. i wasn't being a good boyfriend to whoever I was dating at the time.
00:23:35.16
Eric Miller
Wasn't being a good son. My creativity was suffering, even though I would have bursts of writing and then I couldn't even pick up a pen to write or read. And it just to the point where I was not functioning as a human being. And i just had that. I realized finally that that had to end.
00:23:50.42
Eric Miller
And I said, I need help.
00:23:53.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
So you realized it on your own without people intervening.
00:23:58.46
Eric Miller
ah You know, I'm sure they were noticing and mentioning it. But like i said, you're filtering it out. You're not listening. I mean, plus you're a kid. I think I was probably I'm going to guess I was 17 or 18 at the time. So you're going through all the things you go through and, you know, sophomore, junior year a high school somewhere in there.
00:24:13.62
Eric Miller
And there's so many people telling you things. And believe me, I have a contrary and streak sometimes where, you know, as we all do, somebody says, you should do this, you should do that. And you just you lash out.
00:24:24.27
Eric Miller
You don't want to listen. And that's also just being a teenager, you know.
00:24:25.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:24:28.34
Eric Miller
so So I kind of had to, i think I think that happens with a lot of people is, you know, any one of us has to realize it ourself and, you know, reach out the hand. And I encourage people to do that that are having any kind of a mental health crisis. There is no shame in it. There is no judgment. Don't don't be don't be that way. There used to be a lot more than there is now. And I know there's still people out there that look down on it. And the hell with those people. You're you're a person that's having a medical crisis and you you need help. of various There's various types of help that you can get.
00:25:00.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
So what what did you end up doing? It sounds like you might have been on meds in the short term.
00:25:12.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
Uh-oh, did I lose you?
00:25:13.62
Eric Miller
You dropped out for a second.
00:25:15.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, sorry. Nope, nope. I was, ah well, it sounds like you were on meds in the short term.
00:25:17.56
Eric Miller
You said, what it what did I end up doing?
00:25:23.91
Eric Miller
Yes, I was. was on meds and over the next, I don't know, 10, 15 years or so, maybe till I was about 40 or so, I experimented with various types of meds from various doctors. And that's kind also the problem with, as you well know, and many others know, and many medical professionals know, there's still a mystery to what actually causes depression.
00:25:44.54
Eric Miller
and And all of this, again, we're narrowing in on it. We know in general, but we also don't know how the drugs actually work on people. You know, there are, you know, so all the various types of drugs. Again, not a doctor, not a medical professional, just been around it a lot. There's, and I'll probably pronounce the names wrong, but there's, you know, norepherinine, I think is the wrong. pronunciation and serotonin and all of these, you've either got too much, you don't have enough, you need more.
00:26:08.09
Eric Miller
This drug might give you more. This drug might not. Take it for three or four months and try to ignore the side effects. And sometimes the side effects are worse than the good effects and on and on. And eventually after you, I think most people try three or four or maybe more for different dosages and you eventually find something that might work for you.
00:26:25.56
Eric Miller
Again, and i'm not I'm not damning that at all, but sometimes the question is out there, would have I gotten better without it?
00:26:26.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:26:31.84
Eric Miller
I don't know. And there are a few that I wouldn't take again ever, even if I was having a crisis, but others helped me tremendously. Like the very first one I took was Prozac, and it literally within a few days changed my life.
00:26:45.78
Eric Miller
I it really was. I've used the I've used the term before that I went from feeling like I was had a wet burlap sack over my head sitting in the basement to pulling it off. And I was sitting in a sunny field full of flowers.
00:26:57.85
Eric Miller
It was a very dramatic effect. And unfortunately, that kind of wore off. It wasn't a high by any stretch. It just kind of peeled back the layers of gunk that was clogging all my sensory and emotional input.
00:27:07.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:27:08.86
Eric Miller
And that led you know it led to a lot of ah great things. and And it didn't work long term. I'm forgetting now exactly, but I was probably on it for three or four years. And then it kind of wore off. But also maybe my, again, raging hormones, brain chemistry, everything kind of settled in. And I didn't either need it as much. so But I do remember that being very dramatic. And tried various ones later on. There were a few misdiagnoses over the years.
00:27:31.50
Eric Miller
Saw various doctors. And to a point where i just had to listen to myself. I wasn't denying what the doctors were saying.
00:27:38.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh,
00:27:39.46
Eric Miller
I wasn't denying it at all, but no one knows what helps you more than you know. So i just I just had to listen to myself and you know now I know what my triggers were.
00:27:45.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
absolutely.
00:27:49.14
Eric Miller
And like my one big trigger was, i think this is hedonia maybe, where you kind of lose you lose your interest in any type of pleasure.
00:27:54.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:27:58.17
Eric Miller
And for me, my number one thing is reading. I'm a voracious reader. I cannot stop reading. I wish that I could write as much as I want to read. Because I'd be ah a number one bestselling novelist now, or at least a guy with a book full, a closet full of novels instead of just one so far. But when I don't want to read, I would kind of go, oh, no, here it comes. Because for me to not do that, and when I don't want to listen to music, you know, whatever your personal trigger is, that that's when you kind of notice that, oh, there's something wrong here and I need to address it.
00:28:32.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right, right. Well, and it's it's especially tricky when you have depression or bipolar, you know, or mania and you you have to live your life.
00:28:45.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, like you can't take two months off work to see how this new med is going to make you feel. You know, you're you're trying something that totally messes with your brain chemistry and then you have to get up and go to work.
00:28:54.03
Eric Miller
Yeah.
00:28:57.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, like parents do this sort of thing. And it's like, you're trying to raise a child and teach them right from wrong. And you can barely keep your brain on straight. And then you have a drug that makes you feel suddenly differently about everything.
00:29:12.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, it's pretty crazy. Cause I have, I don't have any kids, but like, just, I remember taking, trying a new med and then taking the weekend. And when I was due to go back to work,
00:29:25.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
I couldn't remember where I worked and I started getting ready for a job that I had had like four years previously.
00:29:31.90
Eric Miller
Oh, wow.
00:29:33.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, it was crazy.
00:29:33.14
Eric Miller
Wow.
00:29:34.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
It was just nuts. And, you know, that that leveled out. I was able to, you know, say, oh, OK, wait a minute, because my my poor husband, he was my boyfriend then. But he's like, you you know, you don't work there anymore, right?
00:29:49.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
You work at Blockbuster now. Oh, I mean, you work at nondescript unnamed company now.
00:29:51.48
Eric Miller
yeah
00:29:54.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
um But but yeah, I mean, it's it's crazy what the drugs can do to you, which is. like the best reason to take them, but also the best reason not to take them, you know, and it's, that's, it becomes its own struggle because suddenly tastes different.
00:30:07.61
Eric Miller
Yeah, yeah.
00:30:13.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
You don't like your favorite foods anymore. It can have like sex problems, which, you know, for women generally means you, you are never, you can't reach orgasm.
00:30:24.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
So you're bummed about it. Your partner feels bummed about it. You know, I know the dude problem is is different. But yeah, like with all that going on, it's it's hard to gauge like whether or not you're better.
00:30:40.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
It can take a long time to determine.
00:30:42.39
Eric Miller
It can take a very, yeah, it takes a long time to look back. And I think that's, from my my point of view, I think that's part of the stigma around the mental illness is that, well, there's a lot of people that hate drugs and, you know, I'm not a big fan, but there are some amazing miracle drugs out there that do incredible things. And that's great. And and I'm very pro-science. But at the same time, we're taking a whole class of things that may or may not work.
00:31:07.23
Eric Miller
and so i get why people say that like well here try this for three months and we'll see if it helps you well wait a minute i want to take something that you know fixes it you know like like at least you know yeah at least if you you have diabetes you shoot insulin it works uh in general of course broad generalities so i think a lot of people kind of sneer at that a little bit and then the other one too is that i think why there's such a stigma with it or it's not as bad as it used to be but
00:31:16.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
00:31:31.54
Eric Miller
This is what everything you said. It's not to minimize the everyday struggles that every person goes through raising. I don't have kids either, but raising a cat is hard enough. Raising an animal, raising kids, going to work, doing all of the things that life requires is incredibly difficult.
00:31:47.06
Eric Miller
And a lot of people without clinical depression, probably every person don't want to get out of bed in the morning. Sometimes you just want to lay there and play a video game or veg or hit snooze 62 times and not go see your asshole boss or look at your terrible paycheck or whatever.
00:31:58.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
Thank you.
00:32:00.73
Eric Miller
whatever stress there is, if you're lucky enough to even have a job or get up and send in more applications. That's hard. And that is none of this is to dimin diminish what those people go through, which is pretty much all of us. But for anyone listening that is maybe a little bit skeptical, clinical depression is take all of that to the next level and beyond.
00:32:23.03
Eric Miller
You can get through it at your best, but suddenly i think a close family member said at one point, if I didn't have to pee, I would never get out of bed. i think I mean, think about that.
00:32:35.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, that's relatable.
00:32:35.77
Eric Miller
I mean, and the same person was saying that they didn't want to even have the energy to take the next breath. That's the next level from I don't want to go to work today. Well, guess what? None of us want to go to work today with rare exception. There are some weird people out there that get up in the morning and love going to their jobs and they just annoy the hell out of me.
00:32:54.04
Eric Miller
But but but again, and none of that takes away. But also, I think that's the stigma as people look at that and say, well, I had a hard time. You know, I had a hard time next week or last week. I didn't want to do this. Didn't want to do that. Yeah. And that's valid. And that's real. And at the same time, you might be clinically depressed, too. You need to look how deep, how hard does it go? How deep does it go? Do you need some help? Maybe talk to somebody and find out because life is tough to start with. But then when it's like I always like to equate it to if you were able to you know run a race, run a marathon. It's hard enough just to get into shape to run a marathon. Well, guess what? Now you broke your leg. Now go run the marathon.
00:33:30.14
Eric Miller
Oh, ah well, I put I put a splint on or I you know put a cast on.
00:33:30.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
00:33:35.01
Eric Miller
Well, now your other legs broke. Go crawl. You know, it's like, come on. At a certain point, you just have to realize that all the band aids and all the things that you do, maybe they aren't helping and you just you need to address the situation. and And part of that is also saying, yeah, I'm not going to run that marathon this week. I need to get better until I can run the marathon. And and the metaphorical marathon is life.
00:33:58.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
and Exactly. Well, and you know, it's interesting because when you're depressed, when you're not quite yourself, it's very easy to rationalize things in your brain.
00:34:11.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
And sometimes what you're rationalizing is i'm a piece of shit person and nothing I do matters.
00:34:15.88
Eric Miller
Thank you.
00:34:16.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
So why should I bother? That sort of thing. But what I wonder is whether or not there is some... like primitive man imperative to that kind of thinking because there used to be people used to be really down on night people people who stay up late and like to sleep late and the whole day person versus night person you know it it creates issues because you know banks close at five and business hours are a thing but then it turns out
00:34:48.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
that, you know, in in primitive men, it was important to have day people and night people because night people would stay up and guard the camp while everyone else was sleeping.
00:35:01.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
And so what I wonder is if there isn't something similar to mental health, if it isn't important to have somebody in your group or that it used to be like before modern technology.
00:35:14.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
Maybe you need somebody to run all the doomsday scenarios in their head and determine what the worst case scenario is for everything.
00:35:19.32
Eric Miller
Yeah, yeah.
00:35:22.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
Maybe you need someone with mania that's like really plotting for the future and and brainstorming ideas for where you can go next.
00:35:23.00
Eric Miller
Which
00:35:31.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know what I mean? Like that, that might be where some of that comes from.
00:35:38.07
Eric Miller
Yeah, I love that. I love that idea. I think that's kind of brilliant. and And as I'm up all night long and when I'm not working, when I between gigs, when I'm staying up till five or six in the morning and I'm plotting every single thing that could go wrong, I'm not being negative.
00:35:52.00
Eric Miller
I'm just being damn good and sure that I'm ready for something to go right. And I'm watching out for you.
00:35:55.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep, yep.
00:35:56.16
Eric Miller
I'm protecting you from the night monsters and your nightmares. So. know I think that's very true because this just goes beyond depression. And I don't know if we yet have an idea of what, you know, the depressed person could be in that, in that pantheon and that mix of people, but all types of different neurodivergence and on the spectrum.
00:36:14.21
Eric Miller
And, you know, there's the the joke some people make, and sometimes it's serious about the, you know, engineers or sometimes can be kind of on a spectrum or something, but have you seen, you know, what they do?
00:36:22.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:36:23.77
Eric Miller
It's like, wow, that is your, The old question, does your brain change to do that type of work or were you naturally suited to do that type of work because of the way your brain was?
00:36:32.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:36:32.67
Eric Miller
And some people are really good at some things. People aren't others. And I think that's the beauty of it. And maybe maybe the depressed person, I don't know, maybe it's a way of in this great, broad, touchy feely thing is a way of having others show empathy and love and care for other human beings.
00:36:48.47
Eric Miller
That that could be the function as well. but But I think every single person, either listening or not, they hears this, I think everyone does have value and everyone has a function.
00:36:58.97
Eric Miller
And yeah even if you are the most deeply depressed wened person or the most wildly on the spectrum, there is something for everybody and everybody brings it out. And we do all have to stick together to do that, whether it's to watch us at night or to plan for the disaster or, you know, write the computer code, whatever it is. Everybody has a value. We may not see the big giant picture yet wherever it all fits in, but I i honestly believe like you do, I think everybody fits in somewhere.
00:37:27.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice. Right on. Yeah. Yeah. and I think...
00:37:31.73
Eric Miller
And hey, if we didn't have If we didn't have chronically depressed, gothic-leaning type people, we wouldn't have great writers like Poe and so many horror writers and probably some rom-com writers, too, are probably terribly depressed, and they're actually writing their way out of it by writing something funny. so That seems to be the, I think it was a Todd Rundgren album that I always loved. The title was the ever popular tortured artist effect.
00:37:57.50
Eric Miller
And, you know, how many, how many rock stars, how many writers, how many people are just like, wow, those guys just live these weird, deep, dark lives. And sometimes that is that weird ass wellspring of creativity for good or evil.
00:38:11.03
Eric Miller
That might be the function.
00:38:11.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, yeah, because when you when you see the world differently than the average person, that gives you an opportunity to turn that into art or literature or music and and sort of describe things in a way that increases understanding between people that normally don't see at eye to eye.
00:38:35.45
Eric Miller
Exactly. I agree with that.
00:38:39.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
So What I'm wondering is you, we were probably not writing professionally yet when you first got treatment for your, your mental health, but I'm curious to know the relationship between your depression and your writing quality and output.
00:38:57.24
Eric Miller
Well, I wish I knew the answer to that too. um my my yeah Believe me, I wish there was a little pill that I could take. By the way, I famously remember Kurt Vonnegut suffering from depression, and he wrote about it and talked about it in essays, and I believe it made it into a couple of his books too, where he talked about the little blue pill that he had to take that kept him writing and happy and everything. And in typical giant fan of Mr. Vonnegut and in his very typical kind of wry way, he made light of a very serious subject and his own struggles. And he also, through his character Kilgore Trout, if you're familiar with the pantheon of Vonnegut characters and stories, managed to look very deeply into people struggling with various types of success and failure and and depression and things. And it was his alter ego. I think he admitted that many times, or at least scholars have. um But so so many writers have just called it right on the head. and and And how many, you know, again, rock stars who admitted that they're self-medicating or taking drugs or whatever to get over the hump or get through the day and create. So um as far as my own, I'm kind of a street writer.
00:40:06.17
Eric Miller
I give the advice and every writer should listen to this and do the opposite of me. You should sit down every single day and write something.
00:40:11.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
Bye.
00:40:14.27
Eric Miller
Even if it's 800 times over and over, all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. Just skip the axe work at the end of that after you type all that if you happen to be staying in an abandoned hotel in the mountains. But sit down, write every day, do a page count, do a couple of words, do something, just make progress. And I find that I am the most progressive. My most progressive moments in writing are when I do a page count and I can look back and say, hey, I made 10, I made 500, I made 2000 words today.
00:40:43.22
Eric Miller
But I sat down and do it, but it's hard. My schedule is kind of erratic, but also, like I said, I'm kind of a streak writer and I don't know if that comes from my mood. um I'm famous for just getting ideas. I'll be out a lot of times my two places for ideas are when I'm hiking and when I'm taking a shower.
00:40:59.53
Eric Miller
If I could figure out how to put a treadmill in the shower and pretend that I'm hiking, I might just get all kinds of brilliant, Pulitzer Prize winning novel ideas out of it.
00:41:10.43
Eric Miller
But there's something about being in the motion in nature or kind of being isolated and almost, you know, the warm hot water isolation of a bathroom shower or something that kind of triggers my creativity. The hard part is turning those into actual words and setting down and doing it.
00:41:26.27
Eric Miller
And I'll go months at a time without writing anything. And then I'll have things bubbling in the back of my head. And then I'll sit down and go, oh, yeah, that's it. And boom, I will splat something out. Now, there's a lot of rewriting to be done in that. And that is also, again, the worst way to do it. So all writers out there, write every day. Don't be like me. Sit down, do what Stephen King does and so many others.
00:41:47.29
Eric Miller
put Set a time if you can. Set a number of words. Set a number of hours or minutes. It doesn't matter. Just do something every day. Do a little bit. And then send me messages and remind me that I'm not following my own advice and to get off my ass and follow my own advice and write something. so but But yeah, I don't know.
00:42:04.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:42:06.39
Eric Miller
Honestly, I've never really tracked how the depression or anything factored into that because I still have a lot of the writings I did when I was younger. I think you just in general have more energy while I was fighting through that period.
00:42:18.81
Eric Miller
Some of the best stuff that I've ever written, a lot of it hasn't seen the light of day yet. But I wrote a lot voluminously back then during that period. And also other deep, dark times.
00:42:28.97
Eric Miller
I think it's a way of you know getting your angst and anxiety out on the page. So there doesn't really seem to be a correlation, except I do remember you know being in the the depths of the really, really, really bad depression decades ago that you just don't have the energy to write, to create, to do anything.
00:42:45.44
Eric Miller
Even if the great idea is there, just setting up and getting at the typewriter is just not an option. Like I say, sometimes you barely have the energy to breathe, but there could be.
00:42:52.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
00:42:55.05
Eric Miller
I wish I would have tracked it more and I could be more cognizant of that cognizant of that at this point.
00:43:03.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, let me ask you this. Now, we we've mentioned this with Vonnegut, but um it's it's common for a lot of writers to include their own mental health struggles in their work. Is that something that you do?
00:43:17.34
Eric Miller
i think I think a little bit, yeah. there's I've talked a lot about this. there's little bits and pieces of me in every character that I write, even in the dark ones. Usually the heroic, shockingly good-looking athletic ones who who hit the lottery and you know do all the exciting things.
00:43:35.16
Eric Miller
Of course, that's obviously me. But even the even the lesser even the lesser characters, there's little bits of, I think, every writer and actor, of course.
00:43:37.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:43:44.04
Eric Miller
There's little bits of yourself in each part that you play. And when you're a writer, you really are playing all the parts. So i I think that has to be in some characters. I do have some very upbeat characters in a lot of my stories. I mix humor in almost everything I do.
00:44:00.00
Eric Miller
And I write some just flat out to me funny stories where there's no angst or or anything. but But so I think that's my fun, happy side that is really prevalent for for the most part. But there's definitely little bits of that. And you do use it as a way... to, i think, work out your own anxieties, much much as an actor is playing a part of sometimes a really depressed person or a psychotic person or a serial killer or something.
00:44:24.96
Eric Miller
There's no way of separating yourself completely from that process. And you are working through things in your head that most people don't think about. Most people just ignore the dark places and ignore the dark sides of their personality.
00:44:36.76
Eric Miller
And writers, we we go there. We become those people for brief periods of time.
00:44:40.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:44:42.36
Eric Miller
And it's kind of, i guess it would be, again, an acting analogy is kind of like method writing, as it were, you know, method acting, if you don't know the term, it's where you basically, the the actor becomes and takes on the traits of the person, which can be, you know, really bad if they're playing a very vile person.
00:44:49.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:44:57.92
Eric Miller
But that's one particular process that some actors use and sometimes to amazing effect. and But writers do that. We have to do that. And when you're writing a novel, there's 5, 10, 20 characters in there. And you really are each one of those. Each one of those is a section of your psyche. And even if it's little bits of us and little bits of people we meet every day and friends and family, things that you kind of put them in a... big Vitamix and hit blend. And, you know, and they come out as different versions of that. There's definitely those bits in there. So, and and again, horror writers in particular, it's kind of funny. I think we're some of the most, in my experience, some of the most well-adjusted people ever. And the the joke amongst me and many close friends is that, yeah, that's because we get our neuroses and stuff out on the page.
00:45:42.78
Eric Miller
We, again, we go there.
00:45:43.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, exactly.
00:45:44.41
Eric Miller
We think these things.
00:45:44.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, it's not that we're we're less messed up. It's that we're more aware of it. And so we're we're better able to navigate it.
00:45:50.36
Eric Miller
Right, right.
00:45:52.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now, I think your analogy about method acting is really interesting because I do that and I hadn't really realized that's what it was. And I was i was a theater major.
00:46:04.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
Stanislavski was my boy. So I feel like I should have made that connection earlier. but i
00:46:10.17
Eric Miller
you know You know exactly what I'm talking about then.
00:46:12.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, absolutely. But I think the the biggest examples that we have of of modern actors method acting, because I know like Laurence Olivier was super into it, like, oh, I'm Hamlet now. But but Dustin Hoffman, you know you probably know this. It's a pretty famous story on the set of Marathon Man.
00:46:32.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
the point toward the end where he's supposed to have been tortured and running for his life. He basically like stayed up for a couple of days, didn't eat, didn't shower.
00:46:44.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
And he shows up on set and Olivier was like, ah what the hell are you doing? And he explains that he's meth, he's method. And, you know, he did all that to prepare because that's what a true actor does.
00:46:56.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
And he was like, no, no actors act, try acting.
00:47:00.18
Eric Miller
Try acting.
00:47:01.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because, i mean, there is a line of thinking that method acting can be really disrespectful to your co-stars. Because if they show up and they are rested and prepared and ready to work, and then you show up looking like ass, having not slept for two days, you're not going to remember your lines as well. You're not going to remember your blocking. It's, you know, your timing is probably going to be off. you' You're simply not at your best self. And sure, sometimes we end up with the
00:47:32.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
USS Indianapolis monologue from Jaws and sometimes we fucking don't sometimes we end up with Heath Ledger or no not Heath Ledger the other one the bad Joker Jared Leto cause you know he thought he was all that being method and really it's like dude you're not being method you're just being an asshole
00:47:54.07
Eric Miller
Yeah, that that that is definitely a thing. And it's also disrespectful to don of the cast, but the crew as well. And most most actors I've had the pleasure to work with over the years, big and small, have been wonderful, creative people.
00:48:01.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
yep yep
00:48:07.67
Eric Miller
I tend to stay away from them because they have their job and they're definitely, when I'm on a film crew, I'm in a deferent definite excuse me different mental space than the rest of us. And so you give them their space.
00:48:18.56
Eric Miller
Even I've been able to drive celebrities sometimes or actors. And kind of the rule is if they talk to you, that's fine. You can be friendly and helpful. You're there to help them. But you shut up because they're either in character, they're running lines.
00:48:31.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:48:33.21
Eric Miller
Some of them want to be called the character name, which is a minor variation of of method acting, I think. And others really go into that part. But It's also kind of ah it's kind of amazing to me to watch the process when you get the real deal actors, because there's so many, especially in Hollywood, there's so many that are playing a, like like I said before, we're all playing a version of ourselves, some more than others, and some really chameleon ooze into that other person entirely. And that's phenomenal when you see that. And especially it's a little bit frightening, but also exciting that you see that person that like, you're you know, you're with them at catering or you happen to be driving them that day or you run into them and they're just this nice, cheerful person.
00:49:11.36
Eric Miller
And then suddenly they go into the other persona. I think I was saying it the other day. I've never met Sir Anthony Hopkins, but what ah just a titanic actor. But like, holy crap, Hannibal Lecter.
00:49:23.51
Eric Miller
Like, would you I wouldn't be comfortable sitting next to him at catering, you know, not that I'd be in that section of the catering tent, but he was probably back in his trailer somewhere. But if he did happen to sit down next to you, I'd have a hard time doing it because that ain't Anthony Hopkins anymore.
00:49:36.83
Eric Miller
That's Hannibal freaking Lecter because I just watched him on set and like, gee. And that's amazing. That talent and ah ability to do that is just phenomenal.
00:49:41.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:49:45.60
Eric Miller
and And again, it's going places, creative people go places that, well, I think all of us do to a certain extent. We all have our little fantasies in there, but sometimes we just go further and open our minds up to things that other people don't.
00:49:57.98
Eric Miller
And it's the old, whoever said it, Nietzsche or whoever, the sorry if I'm misquoting, but you know you look too hard into the abyss and the abyss looks back. It's coming back over the edge.
00:50:08.54
Eric Miller
like how How do you do that creatively when you've created a super dark character, you're playing a super dark character, whether your method or not, you got to come back from that.
00:50:19.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. You know, it's funny because you mentioned actors you'd be afraid to be around in real life. And I've always felt that way about Michael Rooker.
00:50:30.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
Ever since I saw a Henry Portrait of a Serial Killer.
00:50:33.43
Eric Miller
Oh, wow. What an amazing movie.
00:50:35.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then...
00:50:35.43
Eric Miller
And like, I'm just such a giant fan of his.
00:50:39.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
And the thing about Rooker is that like, there's a few exceptions, especially now, but they're, they're fairly recent. You know, there aren't a lot of Michael Rooker roles that you see and say, Oh, I'd love to hang out with him.
00:50:51.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
I wish he was my friend because no, they're terrifying.
00:50:55.38
Eric Miller
What, sli Slither? You didn't want to hang out with what?
00:51:01.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, no. And even on the walking dead, like no, the other Dixon, not, not that one.
00:51:06.62
Eric Miller
Yeah. yeah
00:51:08.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:51:09.64
Eric Miller
No, I've actually never met him. i don't believe I've worked with him, but I know many people who do. And again, supposedly one of the nicest guys ever and just really creative. And you feel bad for actors. They call it typecasting. And I'm sure everybody's heard that term. And you get really good at doing a thing. And and again, all all credit to Henry. Like what an amazing movie and a scary thing, great performance and, you know, top to bottom, like, wow, that's just such an incredibly dark, but yet darkly enjoyable thing. And i look into another side or something, but when you, you know, you get typecast and you only get those offers. And I've seen that happen to many people on, on the flip side, I had the pleasure of spending a brief amount of time with Robert England and
00:51:49.28
Eric Miller
And of course, ask the question, which he's been asked 100 million times. you know It's like, do you you know do what do you feel about Freddy Krueger? How do you feel? And his answer to me, and I think I've heard this in a million interviews that he said, was, I love Freddy Krueger.
00:51:57.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
yep
00:52:01.68
Eric Miller
Are you kidding me? that Freddy has enabled me to travel the world, be famous, be in small indie movies, take different parts, be on stage, have a life that I never could have had without that.
00:52:03.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
yep
00:52:12.80
Eric Miller
And are there times when he should have been, I'm sure he probably had a little bit of angst at not getting offered a bigger... a bigger, not better, but a bigger, different part in something. But I love how he owned that.
00:52:24.09
Eric Miller
And I mean, what an icon. And just that was a you know a fabulously wonderful short time that I got to spend with him working on a film. And to hear him say that was kind of heartening, that like you want you want everyone to have that kind of success.
00:52:35.37
Eric Miller
and And so what? You know what? I got typecast. We should all be so lucky. I always equate that to one hit wonders in music. you know How hard is it to make any even one song a hit?
00:52:45.86
Eric Miller
That's incredible to just record a song at all, let one let alone one that's a hit.
00:52:46.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:52:49.78
Eric Miller
And hopefully each one of those people who wrote that one hit wonder, they may be, quote unquote, forgotten or maybe playing the state fair and still having fun. But hopefully they made enough money of that to have a life and keep playing music and do what they wanted to do.
00:53:02.06
Eric Miller
And that's to be so that's to be celebrated.
00:53:02.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and you never know when that kind of thing is going to come back around. Like, imagine being a member of the Trash Men and you wake up one day and suddenly Surf and Burn has sold a million copies and you don't know why. And then somebody says, hey, there's this show called Family Guy. I don't know if you've heard of it. But then, you know, suddenly this one hit wonder band is like back in the forefront. Everybody's talking about it.
00:53:32.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
Ditto the cramps, you know, with the the Wednesday show on Netflix.
00:53:34.58
Eric Miller
Yeah. And and so.
00:53:36.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
And suddenly that's it. I was so excited. i'm like, oh, my God, I could talk to teenagers about the cramps.
00:53:41.71
Eric Miller
Well.
00:53:43.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
And they're just like, listen to this song.
00:53:44.70
Eric Miller
Well, and and so many, so many, so many others, too.
00:53:46.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's got swears.
00:53:48.57
Eric Miller
And that's like that's like when a TV show or a movie gets made of a relatively obscure book or novel, too. It's that wonderful story and characters that maybe had a niche audience before or none at all suddenly gets exposure to a whole new bunch of people.
00:54:00.97
Eric Miller
And again, hopefully the creator makes bank off that and You just reminded me, too, i was thinking it's a couple years old now, but Tracy Chapman, and I wouldn't really call her one-hit wonder whatsoever.
00:54:02.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep, yep.
00:54:10.74
Eric Miller
But, you know, ah technically there was the one-hit fast car, and then that became the big country icon. And, you know, there's a gigantic resurgence into that wonderful, beautiful song, the rest of their music, and and the other artist's music, too.
00:54:23.66
Eric Miller
And that's that's a beautiful thing.
00:54:27.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep, yep, very much so. So I definitely want to get into your work. So whatever happened to Uncle Ed? This is your first novel, is that right?
00:54:39.90
Eric Miller
Yes, first novel. I've edited anthologies before but and written short stories.
00:54:41.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:54:44.78
Eric Miller
I've had a few published here and there and some wonderful to me, but generally really bad poetry have appeared in a few places. But this is my first full-length novel.
00:54:55.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, well tell us about it.
00:54:58.70
Eric Miller
It's a little bit of an odd duck. I usually have a better pitch up for it, but it's I always kind of like to read because I labored on it, but I like to read the back cover text from it is basically the story is when um when his mysterious Uncle Ed disappears, former high school basketball star Max Brown inherits a fortune in cash, a creepy mansion and a family curse.
00:55:17.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
you
00:55:19.90
Eric Miller
He discovers this mind-bending arena under the house where he and his feuding allies battle shape-shifting demons to rescue people trapped in the subterranean cavern of horrors. But there's more than just lives at stake in these battles. The losers risk their souls.
00:55:34.26
Eric Miller
And Max is driven to the edge of madness by playing the increasingly tension-filled deadly games, the lingering pain of losing his beloved mother years before, and the mind-numbing terrors of falling in love, which is the hardest part. And in the story, he risks everything to solve to end the curse and solve the mystery that haunts the whole entire story, which is the title, Whatever Happened to Uncle Ed?
00:55:56.33
Eric Miller
There's ah a lot going on in it. I touch on a lot of things and it mixes definitely horror at the top of it. And while basketball is absolutely a theme, it's not a sports thing. Not every single scene takes place on a basketball court. It's more of the obsession to win and the drive and to do things that be part of a team is very much the theme throughout.
00:56:15.96
Eric Miller
So I go in a lot of different directions. Like I said, it's it's humor, it's horror. I go very dark places. I go very funny places. There's good bits of action and and a lot a lot of heart, as all the reviews have said. And that's what i'm that's the thing I'm most proud of, because when you separate all of the, again, all of those elements, the action, the horror, the gothic nightmares, and fighting demons in the basement, at the end of the day, it's a story about a boy missing his mother.
00:56:41.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah Well, and that's that's really kind of the point. Like, that's what makes a book stay with you. A lot of authors, particularly in the horror genre, are not particularly focused on themes.
00:56:56.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, you know, again, i was a theater major, so the elements of drama, according to Aristotle, that's that's a big deal. um
00:57:04.78
Eric Miller
Yeah.
00:57:05.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
and And theme is is, in a lot of cases, what makes ah a story stay with you. You know, why you remember it, why you can liken it to your own life or your own experiences, because of of the underlying theme.
00:57:21.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
which is you know then expressed through character and and plot. So I'm intrigued, I'm intrigued.
00:57:28.28
Eric Miller
Yeah, well, good.
00:57:28.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I would actually, i would like to talk a little bit about demons because I always think of demons as being bad.
00:57:28.92
Eric Miller
Yeah.
00:57:37.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
I think of them as being like you know devilish and malevolent, probably violent. um Even even like sadistic even. um But I know there are also Asian cultures where a demon is neutral or or even good. you know So what what is your take on that?
00:57:58.34
Eric Miller
Well, I think they can represent all different aspects of reality. And I think what they really are is our subconscious. They are fictional, or hopefully fictional, or metaphorical manifestations of the human experience.
00:58:13.08
Eric Miller
And that can be good and bad. and if you in in my particular book the demons are shape-shifting demons that do things and they're kind of impish and that they're attacking and fighting and they look kind of stereotypical in that respect so they're very much on the ah more evil playfully sadistically evil side but in general i mean look at i mean arguably what's the biggest demon that we have in western society is a lucifer morning star let's just go right you know let's go to the big one
00:58:37.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:58:39.29
Eric Miller
I mean, if there's, yes, it's a fallen angel, but that's definitely very demonic. But what is, you know, like again, I don't want to make religious people mad at me or anything, but you go back into the details of what exactly, why is Lucifer the demon? Why is he the worst one that we actually have? Well, Well, he's a reflection of vanity. he he it's It's us.
00:58:59.18
Eric Miller
yeah He was vain and thought that he was better than God and disagreed with God. And you don't do that. That's kind of like you know you work it you you go when you go to work, you do what the boss says. It's the boss's company. And he was essentially fired from the firm and became you know all of the various manifestations.
00:59:14.84
Eric Miller
of things. So like with most mythologies, from Hades to whatever pantheons, there's that reflection of good and evil, like you said. And I think i think that demons can take any form. And I mean, come on, there's succubi out there. Those are definitely not evil. Well, some people would maybe think that they're evil, but others absolutely would love to meet one. So I kind of agree with that broad pantheon. We can kind of pick and choose, but ultimately my feeling is they really do just reflect all of the different sides of the human psyche. And as we both know, that's the that's the really scary monster.
00:59:54.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. So let me see. um We'll have links in the description, but for now, if somebody is unfamiliar with your work, is that the best place to go to the to the new novel?
01:00:13.05
Eric Miller
You know what, it it it probably is. That's the newest and the freshest, and I think that's the the most me of anything else. My anthologies that I edited, those were my themes and my ideas, and i found the art i'm sorry I found the writers and edited the stories that came in on the particular themes, and that would be Hell Comes to Hollywood, which is horror stories set in Hollywood written by Hollywood horror people.
01:00:35.10
Eric Miller
ah The imaginatively titled sequel, I like to say, Hell Comes to Hollywood 2, and then 18 Wheels of Horror, 18 Wheels of Science Fiction, which should be obvious, trucking stories set in the various genres from different things.
01:00:40.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
01:00:47.82
Eric Miller
And I do have a story in each one of those because, hey, they're my books and I just wanted to, i can do that. But Uncle Ed is pretty much it's much more me. It's very much more personal and it's my ability to just completely romp and go wherever I wanted and not care.
01:01:03.16
Eric Miller
You know, I did have editors, but they were mainly reining in my worst grammatical ah ticks and a note to any aspiring writers out there. Yes, you need an editor.
01:01:14.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh my goodness, yes.
01:01:14.30
Eric Miller
Hire one, find one. they They have various costs. Even top writers will admit they need editors. We all need them. None of us are perfect. And even through that, I have a few grammatical ticks leak in, but it's mostly my chance to just say, this is my story, my characters, my sandbox, my world, and I'm going to go wherever I want. And I go some really wild and wild and crazy <unk> and heartfelt places in it.
01:01:37.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
Cool. Cool. So I'm aware that you live in l LA because you're like a movie person who works in the industry.
01:01:48.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
How is that going? I bet it's like super expensive out there.
01:01:52.25
Eric Miller
Oh, it's very expensive, like any big city or honestly, like pretty much anywhere in America and probably half the world right now. i think a lot of places, companies used inflation, quote unquote, as an excuse to double and triple prices on things.
01:02:05.77
Eric Miller
And we're in kind of this unique, extreme capitalist version of the world where everything is about making dollar, making shareholder value and dollar at the at the cost of people's lives and livelihoods, I guess is the right word.
01:02:06.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:02:20.22
Eric Miller
So it's, but it yes, it is expensive. It's very expensive. Rent is off the charts for various reasons. Gas, California, everybody knows about that. But just everything. You try to go out for a meal. I love going out to old diners and things. And you you know you end up spending two or three times what you would have spent to stay at home. so And that's not, yeah again, not just LA. It used to be, obviously, New York was the most expensive place ever and other big cities. And LA, I think, may have is is hovering at the top of that. But it's expensive everywhere. you know even Even in small towns, things are costing and it's hurting people. And that just it's just breaking my heart right now that people have to work two and three jobs or more just to try to get by to feed their family and maybe go out and have some fun every now and then. And it's tough. and Also, on top of that, the film and TV industry at this exact moment, which is spring of 2026, is going through some upheavals. I know some people will probably cheer that, but most people realize, you know, that dream factory of Hollywood is on kind of a weird pause right now where we're simply... not making as many products as we used to, not making as many film and TV shows, and some of the creativity, while there's still a lot of wild, mad, insane, wonderful product coming out, there's other things that are just being derivative and recycled, and it's kind of a scary closed off world right now where it's it's a retrenchment, I think, is what we're all kind of saying. And I hope it's going to get back to a more crystallized, creative, amazing world where there's many jobs for people and much more creativity to entertain people around the world.
01:03:55.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
I sure hope so. um Because AI writing scares the hell out of me for a variety of reasons. And like I lost a couple of jobs to AI in the last year. One company just decided to use it exclusively and another one actually wanted me to use it, which like I i tried to do because I'm not really in a position to turn down work, but i I just couldn't do it. It would just, I have too many feelings about it. Are you concerned with AI taken over as a like ah in screenwriting in particular?
01:04:34.01
Eric Miller
Well, yeah yes, I'm more, I'm more, i almost say if afraid is the right word, I marvel at the technology, which I think is not there yet. I think a check has been written for this amazing, wonderful thing that it can't quite, ah the you can't cash the check yet.
01:04:51.02
Eric Miller
It can't quite do the things that people are saying it can do. And I'm not just saying this to suck up to our, you know, the Skynet overlords, but I don't think it's the AI itself that's the problem.
01:05:01.46
Eric Miller
I think it's like I mentioned earlier, this over the top insane capitalist greed, nothing wrong with capitalism, don't get me wrong, everybody needs to make money and I celebrate when people get rich and Yeah, although there is, but but but it's the people that are using it to replace people to be the lowest common denominator, to force people to train the AI to do their job to fire them.
01:05:10.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, no, dude, there's a lot wrong with capitalism.
01:05:22.15
Eric Miller
And and there's so many different directions. it's What you're missing is the not just the jobs that it's taking away, which breaks my heart. I have so many people that I know, artists in particular, but it's starting to be musicians and writers and people are losing it. Ad people, computer coders, it's hitting every section of the thing. and i I hope that it becomes a tool that every person can use to create new amazing things and to accent the job. But what's happening is, i think we all see it, is the people that are implementing it are using it to get rid of human beings. And that's bad anywhere. It's especially bad in creativity because all of these things we've been talking about, it's the human and emotion, the human element that goes into a story, that goes into a song, that goes into a movie that It goes into all a picture, any of these things, the person looking through the camera lens and framing it in a certain way and capturing the flower or the whatever event that it is. You can't get that with the computer and you lose that. And then when you pile on the fact that it's horrifying for the environment,
01:06:22.90
Eric Miller
There's not enough power.
01:06:23.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:06:24.10
Eric Miller
There's not enough water that it's, you know, it's that that like we're, it's it's ruining neighborhoods where it goes in. We're sacrificing all kinds of stuff to make it happen and sacrificing jobs.
01:06:34.46
Eric Miller
It's just, again, we're in a, it's an upheaval time right now. And I think it's going to shake out eventually where people are going to realize they're already realizing it. The, you know, the backlash is very much there.
01:06:45.87
Eric Miller
We want, I want real music. I want real books. I want real stories. I want real movies. I don't want a computer approximation of that.
01:06:52.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I mean, i know I kind of say this ad nauseum, but why in the hell should I bother reading something that nobody could be bothered to write? I mean, they're they're called the humanities for a reason.
01:07:02.04
Eric Miller
That's the best way I've heard it put ever.
01:07:08.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, that that's the whole point. is that we're expressing things so that we can be heard and understood and so that other people can look at those things and say, yes, I feel seen and heard because I have seen this art and it speaks to me.
01:07:25.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
and all AI, the best that it can do is impersonate that and tell you what art might sound like if it had something to say, which it doesn't.
01:07:36.89
Eric Miller
or at worst steal or be trained on quote unquote existing works of art, existing writing, existing film and TV and pictures, which is essentially stealing.
01:07:40.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:07:47.18
Eric Miller
The copyright yeah the copyright implications are are horrifying.
01:07:48.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh yeah, totally.
01:07:51.78
Eric Miller
and But suddenly because, oh it's a large language module, that makes it okay? Like, no, that stuff was copyrighted. That book was that story, that this. Well, I just trained it to sound like Hemingway. Well, guess what?
01:08:02.10
Eric Miller
I want to read Hemingway. I don't want to read a robot pretending to be Hemingway.
01:08:04.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right? Right?
01:08:06.45
Eric Miller
or i want to read somebody else who is a fan of hemingway and who is emulating their style and putting their own twist on it and their own humanity and using that to create something new and unique that's what i want to hear so i mean it's here there's not a lot we can do about it but i'm i am i'm generally not a fan i've i barely use it i use it when it gets shoved down my throat and i think that's the other thing people are hating too is that every time you turn around is like i want to check my email no i don't need help writing my email
01:08:18.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well.
01:08:33.31
Eric Miller
I just want to look at pretty pictures on Instagram.
01:08:33.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right, right.
01:08:35.67
Eric Miller
I don't need AI interpreting pretty pictures for me. on a stop shoving it down everyone's throat because people don't want it.
01:08:40.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
ye Yep, yep.
01:08:42.43
Eric Miller
And and then you get to here's the big the big question about it. And this is this happens with any technological revolution. So nothing unique that I'm seeing here. But when you've replaced the last human being with AI at every company everywhere, who the hell is going to buy the crap that you're making?
01:09:02.55
Eric Miller
Nobody. There won't be anybody left.
01:09:03.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:09:04.51
Eric Miller
There's nobody left with any money.
01:09:05.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:09:05.99
Eric Miller
We're already all struggling to find the money to enjoy the arts, to go to a concert, to buy a record, of whatever the kids do these days, or buy a book.
01:09:10.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm.
01:09:13.27
Eric Miller
But then suddenly when, oh, my job is, everyone's job has been replaced. It's what? It's a bunch of robots sitting around in a circle, doing robot things to each other. I think there's a a euphemistic term that I don't want to use right now, but I think you know what I'm saying.
01:09:30.97
Eric Miller
was also the name of a punk band.
01:09:31.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. Well, I'll tell you that i network with a lot of authors, and one of the things I encounter a lot is a writer who will be absolutely affronted at the suggestion that they use generative AI in their writing, and yet they're totally comfortable using an AI cover.
01:09:53.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
And the excuse is usually because a cover is so, so, so expensive.
01:09:53.46
Eric Miller
right
01:09:58.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
And yeah, it would probably cost a lot to commission an artist to paint you a cover. But I mean, you know, Adobe has a light Photoshop you can use for $11 a month.
01:10:13.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it's not that difficult.
01:10:13.59
Eric Miller
Right, right. And on that note, I'm very happy to have always paid for my covers with real artists, real illustrators. I love Zelda Devon, who did an incredible job interpreting my lame ideas for the cover of my novel, Whatever Happened Uncle Ed, and did this terrific, wonderful cover for it. And I'm very happy to have paid for that. Did I necessarily have the money? Nope.
01:10:36.59
Eric Miller
But I paid for it anyway because I like that humanity behind it. And you don't have to go with the most expensive person ever. Like you said, you can mock something up. You can go on DeviantArt. You can find people, make an offer. It doesn't have to be a bunch of money, but but just pay someone. And like you said, the people that will sneer about AI in one respect, but then use it in the other respect. And it's just like, well, you know, kind of pick a lane and, you know, get get in your lane. I haven't been personally accused of using AI yet, although friends of mine have, even in emails, which I know for a fact that they're not using emails to write it. And I'm kind of biting my tongue on responses. But one thing that's popping up, and this is kind of the state of where we're at in education in the world itself, is that, oh, that story, that page, that email, that letter was incredibly well written and used the proper punctuation and used dashes and whatever. That must be written by AI.
01:11:30.68
Eric Miller
And no, MF-er, I've spent 50 freaking years learning how to write. So the day that somebody accuses me of using AI, either in my stories or this or anything or in an email, they're going to get both barrels of of anger from me about that.
01:11:37.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:11:46.62
Eric Miller
Like, no, I don't use it. I'm not going to use it. And I just because I can write well, I was using dashes before dashes were cool. And I thought for a moment, oh, that's the big trigger. if People use dashes. Suddenly that's a trigger for AI. I don't give a damn. I'm going to keep using dashes because that's how I've always written. i have documentation from it and even my you know my own writing now, but stuff going back that was written on a typewriter. I was using dashes 30 years ago. Just get out of my face, get in your own lane and stop accusing people of things. Have some, you know, have some respect.
01:12:20.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep. Yep. That is a, that's a huge issue. Well, because there shouldn't be AI detectors if they're not accurate. Because people are getting academic censures for things that they've written themselves.
01:12:28.12
Eric Miller
Well, and what do what.
01:12:32.85
Eric Miller
Yeah, exactly. And what does how do they detect the AI using an AI driven AI detector? So excuse me.
01:12:39.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:12:40.82
Eric Miller
Yeah.
01:12:42.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and if your work has been used to train AI, like, I don't know if you saw there was a screen cap floating around a while ago that had a few paragraphs from Frankenstein that was called 100% AI.
01:12:43.32
Eric Miller
yeah
01:12:56.76
Eric Miller
Oh, yes, yes, yes.
01:12:57.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
And like, of course it was because it's public domain.
01:12:57.88
Eric Miller
I saw that.
01:13:00.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
So it was fed into AI.
01:13:03.29
Eric Miller
Right. Yeah. But you know, with like with anything else, here's my feeling on it. If you want to use AI, go for it. Have a nice day. It can be fun. It can be wonderful. I've seen amazing things. Just admit it. Own up to it.
01:13:15.06
Eric Miller
If you create something yourself, say you wrote it yourself. If you use AI and let the audience decide, there are plenty of people out there that don't give a damn whether a human created or not and more power to you. If you can write 700 novels this week and put, ah you know, bad AI novels with bad AI covers and put them for sale in all the various places and you're making a living, you're smarter than I am. Good for you. You use the technology. I'm not not going to cast shade at you. I may not like it and I'm never going to do that. And then the rest of us that want to hear a real musician, that want to hear a real song, read a real book, look at a real sculpture or look at a real piece of art, that's for the rest of us. And I think that's most of us is what it's going to come down to.
01:13:51.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
I sure hope so. i sure hope so. Because there was that whole thing with the AI actress and how much people liked her. And some of the things that men were saying about Tilly Norwood were just gross.
01:14:07.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, I don't know how closely you followed any of that, but men were saying, finally, a virgin we can lust after.
01:14:07.77
Eric Miller
Right, right.
01:14:14.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
like what? What are you saying? Like, uh, yeah.
01:14:20.15
Eric Miller
ah The things, yeah, the things that people will say, and sadly, I was going to say the things that people will say through the anonymity of the internet. And sadly, a lot of those people would say the same damn thing in person.
01:14:30.87
Eric Miller
So it's just disgusting.
01:14:31.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, they would.
01:14:32.27
Eric Miller
So, but hey, if that's your bag, you know, go out, have a nice day. Go in, go in your little play, in your little corner and do what you want to do and leave the rest of us civilized people alone.
01:14:41.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah Yeah. All right.
01:14:44.66
Eric Miller
But it's it's hard.
01:14:45.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
So let's.
01:14:46.23
Eric Miller
I was going to say, it's hard enough to be a writer. There's enough competition out there. There's enough amazing, wonderful people out there creating art of all different types. And now we got to put up with robots. Like, what's the point? Why get out of bed?
01:14:56.91
Eric Miller
So here we go. But keep keep fighting the fight.
01:14:59.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
but
01:15:02.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes. So let's get serious now. All right. Super, super serious. Swamp shark. Now I have seen swamp shark.
01:15:13.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'd never miss a shark movie. um Now that shark is shaped like a great white shark, but it has stripes on it like a young tiger shark. Explain yourself.
01:15:27.03
Eric Miller
Well, the simplest explanation is, is all of that was created. Well, except for the stuff that was in camera, we actually did make real portions of the shark, just like in Jaws. I forget what we named it. It wasn't Bruce or anything, but my friend Roy and his team at SodaFX did create real sections of shark that we sunk down in the swamp and had attacking people and doing things. But Most of it is CG animation, so I never actually met or gave notes to the people who created those images. So that's the easy way, but I'll just own it and say that it is a great white tiger hammerhead bull mako shark that went into a genetic sci-fi channel blender and came out as the most ravenous freshwater swamp dwelling shark ever.
01:16:14.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now, that kind of takes me to my next point, because film, like theater, is a collaborative art. So you write a script, you love it, it's going to get produced, that's super stokey, and then, you know, you you don't get control over anything else after that. None of my stuff has been adapted into into anything live action, so I don't know how that feels, but you do.
01:16:44.31
Eric Miller
Yeah. You know, it's a singular thrill and it's even more thrilling when basically one sentence of your original work makes it through to the real screen. But so that's really exciting. But no, it is a singular thrill to hear live actors, real people doing excellent renditions of the lines that you created in your head and and the images and people bringing to life the the idea that you had. And yes, what you brought up is a lot of people may not realize this, but a screenplay is a blueprint for a film. It is not the end result, such as a novel or a short story or any other type of writing and even an email. An email is an email. That's the end result. A script is the beginning of the of the process. So dozens of technicians, if not more, and some of of increasing importance from the director and the actors and producers on down will take what you wrote, hopefully interpret it mostly like you wrote it, say the lines kind of the way either the same lines or with some revisions, and it winds up. There's a saying in Hollywood that there's the movie you wrote, the movie you shot, and the movie you edited or delivered. So it's three different things. And that's very true with everything. So most of it gets through. The spirit gets through. And most of the time, most of your lines get through in your settings. But there's just so many things get in the way. like Unless you're writing to a specific location, and some things are generic. Like you write a bar. you know Bars are relatively generic. But the actual bar that was available and they could afford and shoot in may not look exactly like the one you blocked the scene in your head. so Everything is different. Every director photography blocks it differently. Every actor kind of plays parts a little bit differently. They may be almost exactly what you envision, but they may not. They may have their own wonderful take on what you did. And then there's the director, which is the king of interpretation, which takes what you wrote and does it their way.
01:18:32.09
Eric Miller
So... So again, it's more, i would say, the spirit of what you wrote in most cases gets there. And it's a thrill. It's ah it's a blast. And when the exact literal things, when it looks exactly like you imagined, or, you know, again, the lines delivered like you did, or the action scene is exactly like you did, or the shark looks exactly like you described it, that you, you know, wrote it and imagined it. That's amazing. And that's fun. It's ah it's a blast. I don't think there's there's hardly anything like it.
01:18:59.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
And when do you find out? Like, do you find out at the the screening with everybody else? Do you? Because I mean, you're probably not on set typically, even if you're you're working on the film in another way.
01:19:07.55
Eric Miller
Oh, they... they
01:19:10.65
Eric Miller
They never invite writers to the set or to the screenings. they They actively discourage them from coming. So you usually find it when it comes out on streaming or it's in the theater. No, I'm kidding.
01:19:19.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
What?
01:19:19.97
Eric Miller
I'm kidding. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. and
01:19:23.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
You got me. You totally got me.
01:19:25.27
Eric Miller
Well, there there is actually a little bit of that of because generally, again, there's is all generalities. There's all different variations of this in Hollywood that the person who wrote the original script probably may not be the person who wrote the final draft that went in front of it. TV is much more powerful. TV, the writers are generally the producers who are much more active, and it may even be the showrunner of the show, so they're very much there at every moment. And on bigger films and and the best indie films, if it's a writer, director, or someone that really cares about the process, as most producers do, they will have the writer around. Like Ice Fighters, we talked about. I was lucky enough to go to Utah. and spend time in pre-production and probably the first couple, three weeks of shooting and actually be there every day to help with script changes and just, you know, be be there to be a creative ah creative input on that. And that was wonderful. I really got to thank them for letting me do that.
01:20:16.97
Eric Miller
That generally doesn't happen on a lot of the, you know, more the indie, more product type movies, but sometimes it does. And The bigger ones, and again, especially TV, the writer is definitely there. And yes, we do get to go to screenings sometimes.
01:20:28.85
Eric Miller
they do They do invite us. They might put us in the back or in the closet or, you know, not, you know, that's just the writer.
01:20:33.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
o
01:20:36.30
Eric Miller
So, but I'm kidding, of course. But um No, that's that's usually when you find out sometimes you get to see a rough cut. I have a thing on some of the little indie films that I write, and I've done a lot of rewrites that I'm not credited for. So I kind of have a rule that I won't put my name on it until I've seen the the final cut.
01:20:54.49
Eric Miller
And Ice Spiders was that way, actually.
01:20:55.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, wow.
01:20:56.65
Eric Miller
And my friend Jeff, the producer that brought me on it, he said, no, you got to put your name on this. And I'm like, no, that's my deal. I need to see it first. And when I saw it, I loved what they were doing. And of course, I put my name on it because it was just a hoot.
01:21:08.18
Eric Miller
So, but, you know, some things can harm your career and, you know, it's sometimes you get attached. There's also another funny thing that if a movie's great, the actors and the director did a wonderful job. And if a movie sucks, the writer was terrible. So.
01:21:21.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
01:21:22.30
Eric Miller
yeah which is Which is obviously not true.
01:21:24.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well. Sure,
01:21:26.82
Eric Miller
We're all wonderful and we can all suck. We all have good and bad days and everything. So credit really should be shared around like it is. so but But in general, like I said, I've done rewrites for things that I just... Also, it's not just that I don't want to have my name on things.
01:21:39.38
Eric Miller
I have done some rewrites on things that I also don't want to take the thunder away from the original writer. Because that's very, very common in Hollywood that that first person, they reached either their point of exhaustion or frustration or just, you know, creative creatively exhausted, shall we say, and they bring somebody else for a fresh take.
01:21:44.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
sure. sure
01:21:57.40
Eric Miller
That's how it works. It's happened to me. I've been on both sides of that. It's not it's nothing to get mad about. It's just the process.
01:22:02.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, dude, I thought for most of my life that there was a guy named Carl Gottlieb and he wrote the script for Jaws.
01:22:02.60
Eric Miller
And... and
01:22:10.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then once they started making documentaries, it turns out that like a dozen people, if not more, worked on that script.
01:22:18.54
Eric Miller
Yeah. Yeah.
01:22:20.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, you know, even as a fan, as someone who pays attention, I didn't know for the longest time.
01:22:20.54
Eric Miller
So.
01:22:27.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because you just don't know.
01:22:27.70
Eric Miller
Yeah, that that that can absolutely that can absolutely happen. I think that's why a lot of people become writer-directors also, because it's one less person interfering, that they get control over everything.
01:22:34.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:22:38.78
Eric Miller
um for For good or ill, most of the time for good, sometimes for ill. But yeah, no, that's ah that's a very common thing. And when you get the fact that you know on the set, sometimes you're not supposed to do this, it depends on if it's guild or not guild, there's a bunch of different rules.
01:22:50.62
Eric Miller
But You know people will cut and paste, you know, this bit of dialogue to there. They'll change this line. An actor will just simply read the line differently when they get in front of it, and the writer doesn't happen to be there. They just read the line differently.
01:23:01.40
Eric Miller
So there's a million different reasons, mostly mostly benign, but sometimes nefarious of why things get changed, and and and ultimately so many different people get input on that.
01:23:11.76
Eric Miller
and That's why some movies, too, you'll hear like, oh, this movie was in development for 27 years and went through 97 different script drafts and they finally made it.
01:23:21.84
Eric Miller
Well, that movie's probably going to suck. I can almost guarantee you maybe rare exception. It might. You know all of that distillation and creation may have.
01:23:29.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, but yeah, that's that's studio interference, right?
01:23:31.39
Eric Miller
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there might have been there might have been some world where it went into this creative golden glowing machine and we came out with the most perfect script and production ever. But in reality, it's probably just a big amalgamation that they just need to get their money back on somehow and just just just get it done, shoot the damn thing and get it out there.
01:23:51.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
So Ice Spiders actually does a thing that I love with ah with low budget movies. Sometimes they'll take ah several actors that we know from another thing and put them in the movie. Like if you saw the Lava Langella movies, there's a bunch of police academy actors in them.
01:24:09.79
Eric Miller
Who hasn't seen the La Valanchula movies? Come on. Just couple.
01:24:13.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'm sure I don't know.
01:24:13.37
Eric Miller
You
01:24:14.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, it's no big ass spider, but it's still, you know, it's it's worth ah an afternoon. um But Ice Spiders has a couple of people from Melrose Place in it. um Was that intentional or did or did it did it work out like that?
01:24:24.93
Eric Miller
justing just a couple
01:24:28.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I would watch Tom Calabro could read the phone book and I would sit down and watch him do that.
01:24:28.89
Eric Miller
you know
01:24:33.46
Eric Miller
yeah
01:24:34.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Seriously. He's just mesmerizing.
01:24:37.58
Eric Miller
He's just mesmerizing. I feel the same way about Patrick Muldoon. I just I loved what he brought.
01:24:41.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
who
01:24:41.98
Eric Miller
ah he Patrick basically played that character exactly like I had it in my head. i was loving that.
01:24:47.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, how fun.
01:24:48.26
Eric Miller
And yeah, I up at a point. There was a point where they were wanting some changes dialogue. dialogue, various people here and there, and Patrick just read it and just kind of said, you know what, guys, I love this dialogue.
01:24:58.66
Eric Miller
It's me. I'm kind of a goofball and I can play this part just like he wrote it. And I was like, yes, this is amazing. And when he delivered it and everything he did was like, it was such a cool guy to hang out with.
01:25:09.46
Eric Miller
And so I don't know if that was intentional. I think it was just casting. They all happen to be available. you know, you get into the, you know, the casting agents, they all, excuse me, Casting agents just know people from years and years and years of doing things. And there may have been a point where it was just like, oh, let's just do this. I think it actually probably just became went backwards and became a marketing ploy. But it was you know being around them on set, it was fun because they all knew each other. There's a certain amount of you know just camaraderie of like, hey, we're all here on this sci-fi channel movie, but we all used to be on Melrose Place. So i I think they had fun with it as well. And that I think that kind of bleeds into the film itself.
01:25:46.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I could see that, definitely. Alright, so if we can switch gears a little.
01:25:51.97
Eric Miller
One those happy happy, happy accident, we'll call it.
01:25:53.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
i
01:25:57.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah so i am actually prone to imposter syndrome, which I know is pretty common for people with depression and anxiety. Is is that something you live with as well?
01:26:09.78
Eric Miller
Oh, hell yes. I think most writers that I know have it, probably a lot of musicians and artists too. It's very endemic. um Writing, I think, is kind of the, might be the center point of that because you're really putting your soul on a plate for the whole world to cut apart with forks and knives.
01:26:27.46
Eric Miller
And I guess maybe the other analogy would be a chef who's literally putting things on a plate for people to cut apart with forks and knives.
01:26:33.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:26:34.18
Eric Miller
But But no, it definitely is there. And I think when after I finished editing and obsessively going over probably, I think for six weeks or so, when I thought whatever happened, Uncle Ed was ready to be published. I spent another six weeks going through it again over and over. And I've made a few minor tweaks here and there, know, words here and there. I finally felt like a real writer and I finally had that confidence. And this is after, you know, multiple screenplays written, dozens and dozens of short stories. And I don't lack for self-confidence.
01:27:03.48
Eric Miller
I don't think I suck, but in the back of your head, you got to think, am I any good at this? Am I am I a good writer? Is my story good as my characters? Are these any good at all?
01:27:13.93
Eric Miller
I might be a great writer, but my story might not be terrific. My story might be terrific and I might be a terrible writer.
01:27:17.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because how do you know?
01:27:20.25
Eric Miller
How do you know? And the only real way to know is reviews when reviews come in. And but at the end of the day.
01:27:25.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah but sometimes reviews are bullshit, though, man.
01:27:27.96
Eric Miller
Yeah,
01:27:28.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
Plenty of reviews are absolute shit.
01:27:31.16
Eric Miller
yeah I don't mind.
01:27:31.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
There's people on... on it There are people on Amazon that will tell you that The Godfather sucks and that it was a waste of their day.
01:27:36.92
Eric Miller
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
01:27:38.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
So you really can't... I mean, if if i good review helps you, then by all means take it. But... yeah I really think it's dangerous to put yourself in a situation where you're using reviews to help you determine whether or not you're good.
01:27:55.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because the internet is a terrible place.
01:27:55.86
Eric Miller
Yeah, yeah. well that
01:27:58.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
It can be.
01:27:58.49
Eric Miller
Yeah, it's it's one of the it's one of the few, is though one of the few positive points that you get though. And you can't let it go to your head. You can't let all but you know the great reviews. I think that does happen with a lot of people, a lot of filmmakers, a lot of writers and artists is suddenly the first thing they do is terrific and gets all these great reviews. So they start believing their own press.
01:28:15.99
Eric Miller
and stop being self-critical, you got to stay being self-critical.
01:28:16.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
o
01:28:19.87
Eric Miller
yeah there' So there's a point where imposter syndrome is actually your friend.
01:28:20.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, totally.
01:28:23.95
Eric Miller
That imposter is your friend because it makes you you, know, I think people say this about any job out there. The day that you think you know what you're doing is the day that you're about to get fired because don't Don't believe your own stuff.
01:28:34.98
Eric Miller
You always want to have a little bit of an edge, but but it it is really tough because writing in particular, um if people don't understand the writing process and writers will all understand this terrifically, it is just a series of rejections.
01:28:48.20
Eric Miller
Before you ever get to the point of putting out your story, getting accepted into a magazine or to a website or whatever or version it is, or getting your novel out, even if it's self-published, before you get to that point, You've been rejected dozens or hundreds of times.
01:28:49.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
mm-hmm
01:29:02.31
Eric Miller
And there used to be a saying, still is a saying, that until you've been rejected a thousand times, you're not a real writer, which I think is very disingenuous. I think if you've failed at something a thousand times, and I don't believe failure is a bad term.
01:29:15.21
Eric Miller
Failure is what you do to learn from and pick yourself up and do better the next time or do it different and learn from the thing. But if you've failed a thousand times, been rejected a thousand times, I think you're probably not a writer.
01:29:28.34
Eric Miller
You might want to, you know, in general, you might want to go try something else, maybe pottery or something or, you know, I don't know, would would we wood weaving or making quilts. I don't know, something other, some other creative outlet that you need to do that you might be better at.
01:29:42.36
Eric Miller
But no matter what you do, you get rejected. So before you ever get to the point of getting a review of any type, you've been rejected hundreds of times. And the mental health aspect of that is just harrowing.
01:29:56.03
Eric Miller
You're pummeled nonstop by rejection.
01:29:56.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes. Yes.
01:29:58.35
Eric Miller
Do not get into writing if you have a thin skin. It's it's not it's not for you know it's not for um it's not for the And you have to believe in your story and your characters. And you also have to be self-reflective, even after you've sold a million copies, to look at that and look at the next one and go, did I do that as good as I could do it? Should I do it different? And at the end of the day, you own it. It's yours. I wrote it. Good good review, bad review.
01:30:25.05
Eric Miller
Good writer, bad writer, imposter or not, I own the story. It's mine. This is how I wanted to word it. This is the story I wanted to tell. It's mine and everything else be damned. And that's when you just hit send and it goes out for good or ill. So, but it's ah it's a tough harrowing process.
01:30:41.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I would agree with that. I would definitely agree with that.
01:30:44.57
Eric Miller
I honestly, honestly don't even know why we keep doing it. But I think personally, I might be deluding myself, but I still there's I like I obviously like most of the stories and things that I've written.
01:30:55.20
Eric Miller
But there are sections and stories that I have my novel and stories of my own that I read that I still giggle or I cry when I'm reading my own stuff. And that's when I know I'm the audience and I did it. I made myself happy.
01:31:06.08
Eric Miller
So or sad or whatever the variation is. so
01:31:09.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and and some would say, i would certainly say, the definition of success isn't so much what other people think. It's the distance between what you set out to do and what you actually achieved.
01:31:23.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
And if you look at it in that context, it doesn't really matter what other people think. you know Now, some of us write because we have something we want to share with the world. We want to encourage people to think of a different way or to see something or to understand an experience that they'll never have themselves.
01:31:41.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
But really, it's the expression and and creating the thing that that you wanted to create. Because that's why you get people like Tchaikovsky that write something super famous like the Nutcracker, and then they hate it.
01:31:55.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
because that's not what they were trying to do. And so we can look at it objectively and say, oh my God, I love that.
01:31:59.10
Eric Miller
Right.
01:32:02.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
That makes me so happy. You know, ah ah oh what's his name? Catcher in the Rye. Salinger. He hates his book Catcher in the Rye. He hated it.
01:32:13.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I mean, I don't know if you've read it or if you've read Franny and Zoe, but Catcher in the Rye is the superior book. There's there's no argument really.
01:32:23.06
Eric Miller
That's yeah, that's like, yeah, that well you always wonder about that. Yeah, like you say, Tchaikovsky or somebody there, they're an imposter or they may be not an imposter, but they just don't like what they put out like, like, wow, yeah I mean, how would the rest of us even compete?
01:32:35.70
Eric Miller
Like, how am I supposed to compete with that?
01:32:36.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right? Right?
01:32:37.36
Eric Miller
Like, what the heck?
01:32:37.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:32:39.93
Eric Miller
but
01:32:40.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
01:32:40.34
Eric Miller
But the answer is, like you say, you do it for you, you do it for yourself and you know and you hope you get an audience out there. that's That's why we do it. But I think most people tell the stories, create art, do because we're just for whatever reason in our souls, we're driven to tell that story or paint that painting or or write that song.
01:32:56.10
Eric Miller
It's just out there. And yes, there's no denying that you know international celebrity and money and mansions and for a reason, all that is, of course, that would all be great and wonderful. And it's it's ah it's a wonderful goal, but if that's your goal, I don't think you're gonna get where you want to go.
01:33:11.04
Eric Miller
You've got to basically create for creation's sake, do art for art's sake, and let that other stuff take care of itself. If it does, hope it does for everybody. i hope many people make bunch of bucks and then that enables us to keep writing and keep going.
01:33:23.01
Eric Miller
Especially, hope it happens to me. But um you know what? I'm still going to write. Even if it doesn't, I'm still writing.
01:33:28.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
yep yep
01:33:28.73
Eric Miller
I'm still going to tell stories. I'm still going to publish things and nothing will stop me until my dying day.
01:33:36.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
right on and that's that's the way to do it man so so what would you say i know that that bullying is a topic that uh that you talk about in your writing and when i think of bullying i i think of maga types really because they're the the biggest bullies but uh but But what do you have to say about that? What would you say to these like MAGA types who think that if you're a victim of bullying or you're dealing with depression or, you know, whatever it is, people that say that you should just toughen up?
01:34:09.37
Eric Miller
Yeah, I wouldn't say it's just them. Everyone's entitled to believe what they want to believe first and foremost, and that's something I believe in my heart. But what I want to say, I've seen people of all different stripes say things like that, is what it comes down to is be a little empathetic to the other person.
01:34:27.02
Eric Miller
Your experiences are not necessarily what that person's experience is. You might have had it easier from them. You might have had it harder from them. But right now at this moment, that parts that person suffering from depression or just having a bad day or whatever it is, it's it's relative to them. They're having a bad day. So just if if you don't, it all comes back to, you know, what things I learned in kindergarten or bumper stickers or whatever. If you don't have something nice to say, just don't say anything at all. But in your heart, realize that might be you tomorrow, next week, someday.
01:34:57.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:34:57.78
Eric Miller
And you might need to reach out because it's not just that easy. It doesn't matter what your politics are, what your economic bracket is, any of those things. What matters is some days we all just have crappy days and we can barely get through.
01:35:12.38
Eric Miller
And you might just be able to reach out to your friend, your family, your neighbor, to a stranger. And we shouldn't judge that person based upon who they are, where they come from, what clothes they wear, what car they're driving, any other ephemeral bullshit reason. It's another human being that's having a bad day.
01:35:30.33
Eric Miller
So maybe just give them a smile. Maybe just walk on, but don't pile on. Don't dog pile on them and kick them while they're down and sneer and think that you're better than them because you're not. We're all just people. We're all in this together.
01:35:42.42
Eric Miller
like i like saying i say it in the novel but also in uh in just in my own life life is a team sport you know none of us gets through this alone and sometimes we're all we feel like we're on an island but we're not we're interacting with others so just reach out and realize that might be you someday try to understand try to be a little empathetic to them and try to understand educate yourself You know ignorance is not an insult.
01:36:06.47
Eric Miller
Ignorance just means that you don't know something. So try to find out what that other person is going through.
01:36:09.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep. Yep.
01:36:10.87
Eric Miller
And again, at the worst thing, if you can't help them, don't want to help them, then just walk away. Don't make it worse on that person. Don't be cruel.
01:36:20.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right. Yeah. Wise words, my man.
01:36:23.64
Eric Miller
ah I'm just paraphrasing again back to Kurt Vonnegut, one of my favorite quotes. Just be kind, babies. Just be kind.
01:36:32.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
um You know, we're actually nearing the end of our time, so I want to ask if there's anything that you wanted to discuss that we did not get to.
01:36:42.02
Eric Miller
Hmm, that's a doggone question. I've been wondering, work with me here, I've been wondering if kitchen towels, think that they are better in some way than bathroom towels?
01:36:55.56
Eric Miller
And if when they're all in the closet, if they're in the closet together, do they sneer at each other?
01:36:56.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, they definitely do.
01:36:59.96
Eric Miller
Do they talk at each other? Do they wonder? Or do they just all get along in the closet and go, oh, wow, man, that was a great job wiping up the table. Oh, you did a great job in the shower, bud. Do they support each other? I'm just, that's one of the things that just struck me the other night.
01:37:11.88
Eric Miller
How do how do towels get along when the closet door is closed?
01:37:16.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I would think that they wouldn't even be in the same closets because you're going to keep your spare kitchen towels in the pantry, whereas your linen closet would have, or or your your bathroom closet would have the the bathroom towels. So they they probably never meet. They probably don't even know that there is another kind of towel out there that's living a very different life than they are, which really comes back to what you were saying about empathy.
01:37:43.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, because you can't know if you're a kitchen towel, you can't know what a bathroom towel goes through and vice versa.
01:37:50.74
Eric Miller
Until that fateful day in the laundry room when you all get tossed in the same the same washer cycle. And then suddenly they discover that like, wow, you're just like me. You just clean up slightly different. See a completely different dumb thought that I had just has amazing metaphorical connotations. Somebody better than me write a novel about this. Or there's towels in the dryer. Who knows?
01:38:15.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
I do like to give guests an opportunity to ask me a question if they have one. So if you have one, now is the time to ask it.
01:38:24.57
Eric Miller
Yeah, I'm curious about how the mental health aspect has affected your work.
01:38:30.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Ah, well, my debut novel, which has just come out in a third edition, is about a a fat chick with mental health issues who murders her abuser.
01:38:41.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
um My abuser is still alive. They're just dead to me But yeah, I mean, most of my work includes things like unreliable narrators, people with murderous impulses that they ah pursue with varying degrees of effectiveness. um Yeah, it's it's all over the place because my my written work, kind of like this show, is really...
01:39:12.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
my intent is to lend perspective. You know, like I have my, my third book is about a serial killer and it's all first person perspective, but there's a lot of different characters and every other chapter is first person perspective of the killer. Because what I want, ah what I want to do is say, you know, things like that seem very foreign to us. The idea that someone would want to murder, for fun or for sex reasons or to do that sort of thing more than once.
01:39:45.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
um That we want to put a label like evil on it, which is a supernatural construct that i I don't think does any good for anyone. But if you see the thought process, it becomes easier to understand like, oh, you know, if this person had just had this, or maybe if this hadn't happened to them or you know, they had a different kind of parent, things might have all been different.
01:40:10.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
And i think with that understanding comes the impetus, if not the responsibility, to apply that to real life, whether it's extending empathy or voting for resources so that people who want mental health care can get it in in some sort of actionable way.
01:40:30.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
um So yeah, it's a lot of my work is an exploration of what mental illness is and how it affects you, but also what other people can do about it
01:40:44.54
Eric Miller
Wow, that's great. And that's, I think, one of the great things about writing, about books and literature and fiction, is it enables us to see those other perspectives. And like i was like we're saying, being empathetic to other people and realizing that they have other things, even even a serial killer, even though it's fictional or maybe a real one, you're getting into their head and seeing what that person is thinking and feeling and why they do the things they do and kind of the key to understanding our own selves. That's that's amazing.
01:41:13.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, thanks. um Now, I understand that you are going to have a reading. We'll have a reading from you at the end of the episode. um Do you want to introduce that?
01:41:23.16
Eric Miller
Yeah, I've been bouncing back and forth. I may, I was going to a short section from my novel, but I think I might do a reading from just a little short flash fiction piece that I wrote a while back.
01:41:35.70
Eric Miller
I've deliciously cribbed the title Them from my favorite giant ant movie, Them, the wonderful black and white classic film I think most people have seen on TV, but I do a little bit different take on an ant invasion on a house. So I'm going to do a reading of my short story, Them, and I hope everybody enjoys it.
01:41:55.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sweet, sweet. Well, it is time now for the Mad Lib. And when we discussed this before the show, you had said you had never done a Mad Lib before. That's that's intense.
01:42:05.05
Eric Miller
I have heard i've heard the term for years. I literally don't have any idea what a madlib is so've ah the the Mad my Mad Lib street cred is gone if I even had any ever.
01:42:13.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
OK, well.
01:42:18.71
Eric Miller
So I'll do my best, whatever this is.
01:42:19.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
I guess so, goodness.
01:42:21.79
Eric Miller
And honestly, I've never played Scrabble either. So so um' um' there's some developmental writing, wording things missing in my life. So let's try it.
01:42:32.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, so a Mad Lib is a story. It's a single page. And usually, i don't know, about 100 words or so. And there's a bunch of words missing. So I give you the parts of speech. Now, if this were a party, we'd go around in a circle with people giving words. but it's just us. So I give you parts of speech and then you tell me a word that is that part of speech and I use it to fill in the story. And then I read the story with all the zany wacky words in it.
01:43:04.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
So the first one is person in room female. So obviously that is me. So then I need some singular nouns. It looks like i need two of them.
01:43:18.52
Eric Miller
Two nouns to describe the person or just nouns in general?
01:43:22.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nope, I need two singular nouns completely separate from the first thing, just random nouns.
01:43:27.64
Eric Miller
Oh, just complete random nouns. um
01:43:31.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:43:32.60
Eric Miller
Boy, book and box.
01:43:38.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, I need an adjective. Actually, I need one, two, three, four adjectives total.
01:43:49.94
Eric Miller
Slimy. Bright.
01:43:56.63
Eric Miller
Cold. Is cold technically an adjective? I think it is.
01:44:01.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm. Yep.
01:44:02.33
Eric Miller
And um slippery.
01:44:10.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right. I need a color.
01:44:13.91
Eric Miller
Green.
01:44:17.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
And a celebrity who is male.
01:44:22.87
Eric Miller
Brad Pitt.
01:44:26.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
Alright, and a part of the body plural.
01:44:33.17
Eric Miller
Toenails.
01:44:37.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Alright, and a verb in the past tense.
01:44:42.42
Eric Miller
Cooked.
01:44:46.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
a And two plural nouns.
01:44:51.11
Eric Miller
Hmm. Desks and table lamps.
01:45:00.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
You're looking around the room.
01:45:02.58
Eric Miller
I am.
01:45:02.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
01:45:03.26
Eric Miller
i'm This is my first time. I've got to cheat.
01:45:05.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, last one, part of the body plural, another one.
01:45:09.66
Eric Miller
Another part of the bipolar. Nose hairs.
01:45:16.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, so that is our story. Now this is called All Access Press Pass. ah Hey there, Wetness here from WFUN-TV.
01:45:29.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
Guess what? I was the lucky box assigned to cover the annual book awards and blog about it for you. So, here are the slimy details.
01:45:40.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
First, I hit the green carpet and snagged interviews with every everyone from the delicious Brad Pitt, who made me weak in the toenails, to the current Hollywood it kid, Eric.
01:45:42.01
Eric Miller
Thank you.
01:45:54.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
who's every bit as bright as the person in person as in the movies. I cooked backstage for most of the show because that's where all the cold action was.
01:46:06.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
And after the parties, oh, the after parties were amazing. People were toasting one another with glasses of chilled desks. Finally, everyone jumped into their chauffeured table lamps and sped home.
01:46:22.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
every Everyone except me, that is. Sadly, i had to use the only mode of transportation available to reporters. Oh, available to a slippery reporter on my own two nose hairs.
01:46:39.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, that's funnier when the person reading it can read a little better. But yes, that's the gist of the Mad Lib.
01:46:44.90
Eric Miller
I think, is that is there a Pulitzer Prize category for this? Because I think we're in. We're a shoe in.
01:46:53.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
well the neat thing about mad libs is that like i used to play these at my parties when i had like grown-up parties and you could play it with a room full of stoners you could play it in a kindergarten class i mean the game itself just like you know it adapts to the crowd that you're in we have these my wedding favors were mad lib books we made them ourselves
01:47:15.18
Eric Miller
Oh, that's great.
01:47:16.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, i'm ah I'm a great, great fan of them.
01:47:17.03
Eric Miller
That's hilarious.
01:47:19.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it's also a fun way to get to know someone a little. um
01:47:25.24
Eric Miller
Well, learned i learn something every day, whether I like it or not.
01:47:25.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
so So it's great for that.
01:47:30.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right. Right. Well, I really appreciate you being here. We are going to have a story after the episode closes. So y'alla want to stick around for that. um And we do want to remind all of our listeners to find us on coffee. That's K O hyphen F I. um You can still get past issues of sometimes hilarious horror magazine there and you can support us because believe me, we need it.
01:47:58.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Thanks so much for being here, Eric. It was great to have you.
01:48:02.17
Eric Miller
I appreciate it very much. I really enjoyed being here. I love the deep, dark questions and the fun ones too. And and just do like to say, know, be nice to each other and reach out if you need help because life is a team sport and none of us get through it alone.
01:48:17.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right on. And we will see everybody next week.
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