Mentally Oddcast Transcript: Writer and ND Advocate Riley O'Dell.
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Find more from our guest, Riley O'Dell here.
00:00:01.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
You are listening to the Mentally Oddcast. My name is Wednesday Lee Friday, and we are brought to you by Sometimes Hilarious Horror Magazine. Do find us on coffee. This week, we are speaking with Riley O'Dell, who is an autistic writer, editor, and neurodiversity advocate. He writes horror, humor, and bizarro, as well as stories about autism.
00:00:25.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
He lives in Fort Collins, Colorado with his wife, Jamie. Plus a dog named Sadie and a rabbit named Newton. How fun. Welcome, Riley.
00:00:35.22
Riley Odell
Yes, thank you for having me.
00:00:37.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
It is my pleasure. We had some trouble scheduling, I think, because we were going to record before the break. And then I think i was having some kind of crazy apartment mishap, which I also had today. It's so crazy around here. And then, yeah, break, break, break. And now, finally, we get to sit down and do this.
00:00:56.41
Riley Odell
And great.
00:00:56.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, yeah. Yeah. So, you know, we normally start by asking guests to tell us the story of the first horror movie that they remember seeing. So I bet you've got a good one.
00:01:08.98
Riley Odell
Well,
00:01:13.02
Riley Odell
I, you know, I think it was, ah I think it was the movie 13 Ghosts when I was 14 years old, or it was either that or it was
00:01:23.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
The original or the, sorry, the original or the remake?
00:01:26.55
Riley Odell
Oh, I think it's the remake. um I'm. Yeah, that was so long ago, I i wasn't even aware that there ah that there were two versions of that movie. But um yeah, it was either that one or. i Jeepers Creepers 2, I can't remember which one I saw first.
00:01:48.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh wow. So wait, how old are you?
00:01:52.28
Riley Odell
um Well, I'm 35.
00:01:55.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, alright. So yeah, I'm just trying to put all that into perspective. Um, cause yeah, I was a full ass adult when I saw the remake of, uh, 13 goes the, cause I love Matthew Lillard. I mean, he's, he's so lovable. So do you think that your early exposure to horror movies put you on a path?
00:02:16.63
Riley Odell
um and on the path to being like a horror writer um
00:02:24.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah Yeah, or I mean, i think when you are a neurodiversity advocate, I think horror people are are in general more likely to advocate for other people because horror is one of those genres that attracts people with empathy.
00:02:38.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
um But maybe that's wishful thinking because I'm a horror person. um Some people saw a horror movie as a young kid and they never wanted to see horror again. And then other kids saw some horror and said, my God, I'm going to make my whole life about this. So I'm just wondering where you fall in that spectrum.
00:02:59.15
Riley Odell
Well, I mean, when I was very young, um,
00:03:05.66
Riley Odell
um
00:03:08.38
Riley Odell
there were, I think I saw some trailers for some horror movies and before other movies that I was watching and those trailers, I mean, it was, I think the trailer for like scream was one of them.
00:03:24.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
00:03:24.63
Riley Odell
it just, the trailer scared me so badly. um I practically traumatized me for like weeks.
00:03:29.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
yep
00:03:33.37
Riley Odell
And I thought that I didn't want to have anything to do with horror ever um As I got a little older, it, um,
00:03:46.33
Riley Odell
I guess, uh, I was, I became somewhat more drawn to it. Um, I think when I first got the opportunity to my, my, my friend, um had the movie 13 ghosts and when he said we should watch it together, um it seemed like, um, maybe it was kind of a chance to try to conquer some of those,
00:04:17.88
Riley Odell
um those fears that I had had when I was younger that the, that would arise when I would experience, uh, horror like that.
00:04:30.49
Riley Odell
And so it, it had sort of a, um, it, it was powerful, i guess, in that way to, to watch it, um, that movie.
00:04:42.62
Riley Odell
And then I enjoyed it. And, um, I've just, yeah, I've been into horror since then. um And ah I guess in a broader sense, I kind of just...
00:05:01.21
Riley Odell
view ah to me, i I sort of see reality um as horror. ah
00:05:08.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:05:08.92
Riley Odell
You know, um I kind of feel like our the human species has been existentially screwed from the very beginning.
00:05:09.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
certainly now.
00:05:18.46
Riley Odell
So what I write often just reflects that view of the world.
00:05:26.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, yeah, that makes sense. And I think you hit on something that's really important among horror fans, especially horror fans that start young, is that horror can teach us that things are surmountable.
00:05:39.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
Even monstrous, terrifying things that take over entire towns can can be defeated. You know, that's... I forget, it was it G.K. Chesterton, maybe, who said that we don't tell kids...
00:05:55.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
dragon stories so they can know that monsters exist, we tell them so that they know that monsters can be killed. I think is, I'm sure I massacred that quote, but that is the gist of it.
00:06:06.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
that That's one of the things that horror teaches us to do.
00:06:06.89
Riley Odell
I'm pretty sure i've heard that one.
00:06:11.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
So how old were you when you wrote your first horror story?
00:06:15.80
Riley Odell
Well, you
00:06:20.22
Riley Odell
you know, I... I started writing, um it was when when I was in second grade, i i started my writing with like writing comics, um kind of like funny comics.
00:06:37.21
Riley Odell
And throughout my whole teens, really I i was writing in pretty much only comedy or Legend of Zelda fan fictions.
00:06:47.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:06:47.67
Riley Odell
Um, so I think I was 18 years old when I wrote my, uh, very first horror story. Um, um
00:06:55.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. And did you do anything with it? Did you send it out to get it published? Or did you just share it with friends? Like, what happened to it?
00:07:05.24
Riley Odell
well, no, not at that time. um i I had this kind of idea that I was still too young and inexperienced for there to be any possibility that something of mine could be published. So that, that's sort of just, um,
00:07:28.86
Riley Odell
sat on my computer for a long time, I would, you know, I go back and through and um I've made a lot of updates to it since then, but I did send it out, start sending it out to publishers later on.
00:07:41.98
Riley Odell
um Never did get it accepted anywhere. And it ended up in my first ah collection of horror stories that I self published, Vile Visions, um that i that I self published in 2022.
00:07:52.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, okay.
00:07:57.46
Riley Odell
And the name of that story is the it's the eye that cannot close.
00:07:57.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:08:05.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, well that does sound terrifying.
00:08:09.43
Riley Odell
Yeah, it's kind of um a surreal and satirical exploration of like cycles of violence in the way it accepts affects society.
00:08:22.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. And, you know, horror, satire, those have always been things that go handin hand in hand. You know, if you're a zombie fan at all, you probably know that already. um
00:08:31.80
Riley Odell
and Definitely.
00:08:33.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, ah satire actually is is a tough issue right now. Because one of the things that I see a lot, particularly on on social media, is this idea of just posting some blatant, gross lie. And then when people believe it, saying, hey, you idiot, it's satire. Don't you know satire? And I think in some ways people have lost sight of what satire is and what it's for.
00:09:03.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
Would you like to give your take on what satire is and what it's for?
00:09:11.67
Riley Odell
Well,
00:09:16.18
Riley Odell
for me, I mean, the way that employ satire, at least, is use it
00:09:29.40
Riley Odell
i use it to sort of try to create an ah an exaggerated depiction of the world as it is. And through doing that, um you of commentary on how things work.
00:09:53.46
Riley Odell
through doing that it you make some kind of commentary on how things ah I mean, I think by like taking something that is messed up or whatever and hyperbolizing it to this ridiculous degree that
00:10:01.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Thank you.
00:10:16.25
Riley Odell
um
00:10:19.16
Riley Odell
would never be the way it is and in real life. You're showing um through doing that, how that the absurdity of the way that it actually is. Well, I don't know how well I'm explaining this, but that's, that's how I use it and
00:10:36.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I think you hit on something really important, and like that is the word commentary. if you don't If you're not making a point, if you don't have something to say, you're just like spewing bullshit that's not true because it's going to get you clicks or whatever, um that's that's not really satire. That's just an excuse for dicketry. But what you said makes so much more sense, that it's it's commentary.
00:11:00.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's exaggerations and lampoons that... ultimately demonstrate something. You know, they they make a point that that the the author or the artist feels is important to be made.
00:11:12.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
So I have fully respected value satirists, no question. Heroes. You're all heroes. um
00:11:19.41
Riley Odell
Um,
00:11:20.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
So um I would actually like to talk a little bit about your autism diagnosis. um A lot of people are getting diagnosed much older now, especially women, because they didn't know how to diagnose us when when we were kids.
00:11:35.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
and And the impact of of an adult diagnosis can be really jarring for some people. So let's get into your story. When were you diagnosed?
00:11:47.61
Riley Odell
kind of unofficially when I was nine years old. ah
00:11:52.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah wow.
00:11:53.05
Riley Odell
yeah. Um, the, i got evaluated for autism back then and, uh, the,
00:12:04.22
Riley Odell
um There's this whole written report from the evaluation that I still have. And it, you know, I think it, diagnosed I think I was diagnosed diagnosed with ADHD and oppositional defiant disorder.
00:12:22.65
Riley Odell
ah But the the report says something like an ah um a diagnosis, a diagnosis of, ah of, ah sorry, Asperger's um cannot be given because of basically a lack of um the word it used there as stereotypic interests, um meaning like, I guess, repetitive or fixed interests. um Most autistic people, they, they can get very
00:12:58.52
Riley Odell
they can get very fixated on very narrow topics, topics of interest. Um, people who aren't autistic would probably call it obsession, but, uh, you know, autistic people, they, the, the term we generally use is special interests, but I don't, I don't really have that trait.
00:13:03.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
yep
00:13:08.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
yep
00:13:16.60
Riley Odell
Um, and because I didn't have that one trait, despite showing like, um, practically every other trait of autism that a person could possibly have.
00:13:31.00
Riley Odell
i wasn't, I wasn't given that diagnosis, but my, my therapist at the time, um told me nonetheless, that he felt that, um,
00:13:34.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh my gosh.
00:13:45.27
Riley Odell
that, uh, that I had Asperger's syndrome. And so I essentially knew, and my parents knew, um I did finally, this was back in 2019, I guess I was 29 years old. I did finally get the ah formal diagnosis um on paper.
00:14:07.32
Riley Odell
um But I mean, I have known since I was ah since I was a kid.
00:14:14.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow. Okay. So were you given accommodations as a kid? Like how did having a proper diagnosis ah impact you? Like what, if what impact did it have on like how you were schooled or what you, you were doing?
00:14:29.27
Riley Odell
Sure. Yeah. I mean, I, uh,
00:14:36.15
Riley Odell
I had some classes through special education and access to those kinds of, uh, the, um, access to some of those resources all throughout elementary and, um, middle and high school.
00:14:57.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
And was that helpful?
00:14:58.81
Riley Odell
Yes, it was.
00:15:03.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
Cool. Now, did do you feel like, I mean, were you in a public school?
00:15:07.74
Riley Odell
Yeah.
00:15:08.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, so it seems like your peers probably would have known that you were getting accommodations. Did that come into it at all for you?
00:15:17.85
Riley Odell
I don't, I don't think it was necessarily known. um Maybe people knew. I didn't, I didn't really have a lot of a lot of interaction with most of my peers. I had a few...
00:15:35.77
Riley Odell
um i had a kind of a small circle of friends and didn't talk much to anyone else. If they knew, i mean, no one said anything, but the accommodations I was receiving, i didn't need a lot.
00:15:52.60
Riley Odell
So I don't um
00:15:55.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
I see.
00:15:55.61
Riley Odell
and don' i don't think it would have been obvious necessarily.
00:16:00.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
so Okay, I see. Well, you know, one of the high schools that I went to had elevators between the first and second floor, so it was kind of a magnet school for special needs students, which sounds really weird saying it out loud.
00:16:14.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
But, yeah, I think... there was a a fair amount of of bullying and just otherizing and unnecessary weirdness. So it's really cool to hear that like, that was more like an experience that that I saw at my school and not a universal experience.
00:16:31.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
So of course, again, you're you're quite a bit younger than me. So maybe we're getting better with the passage of time. That's that's ah that's neat. So how would you say ah your autism impacts you now?
00:16:47.78
Riley Odell
how it impacts me now. Um,
00:16:53.82
Riley Odell
well, uh, in a lot of ways, really. Um, and in difficult ways, i mean, there's, there's
00:17:11.93
Riley Odell
executive dysfunction that I deal with. Um,
00:17:18.10
Riley Odell
i've I've got oral organizational issues like you wouldn't believe. I've ADHD top that.
00:17:24.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, that's super relatable, man. Super relatable.
00:17:26.74
Riley Odell
Sometimes it feels like the... i've got the adhd on top of that and sometimes sometimes it feels like the
00:17:46.58
Riley Odell
the
00:17:49.18
Riley Odell
benefits of autism and ADHD almost kind of cancel each other out. Um, I mean, like,
00:18:03.81
Riley Odell
uh, what am I, what am I getting at? Like,
00:18:07.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, the sentiment that you're expressing is something that I've heard before either side, that there are benefits to autism that have helped people in their creative lives. There are benefits to ADHD that help people focus and get things done on occasion.
00:18:23.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
But if I'm hearing you correctly, what you're saying is that you don't necessarily get either benefit because they're working against each other.
00:18:33.53
Riley Odell
Yeah, sometimes it feels like that. And i also have this chronic brain fog that isn't related to either of them. But... just the um I have a... i My brain is a complete mess.
00:18:51.77
Riley Odell
hum But autism...
00:18:54.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
i think I think that's also relatable. I think a lot of ND people just feel like the entire world is functioning on a different frequency and they're just like in the corner being a mess. I know I feel like that. And I don't i don't mean to diminish what you're saying and say, oh, come on, everybody feels like that. But I do think that that feeling is is common enough that if a lot of people who feel that way get together and talk about it, we're all going to feel better at the end of it.
00:19:24.50
Riley Odell
Yeah. Um,
00:19:29.91
Riley Odell
I, I had and another thought and my brain fog has got, has, has, uh, now my brain fog has destroyed whatever I was, whatever I was thinking.
00:19:33.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'm so sorry. i interrupted you. i need I'm so bad at that.
00:19:42.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, we were getting into...
00:19:42.98
Riley Odell
Oh, right.
00:19:43.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
00:19:44.44
Riley Odell
Well, so the, the other, well, the other thing to say about autism is the, I mean, the way it's been beneficial for me, I guess, is the, but in the specific friendships that I've, I've formed.
00:20:04.41
Riley Odell
I mean, um, most of my friends are also autistic, um, and, So if I weren't on the spectrum, i I probably wouldn't, I probably would have never met them, would have different friends.
00:20:21.30
Riley Odell
And having that shared experience allows us to have maybe kind of a ah deeper friendship than a lot of um people might have with their friends.
00:20:28.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:20:34.37
Riley Odell
And also, um well, um my wife, Jamie, is autistic as well. And so... ah again, if I weren't autistic myself, probably the path that brought us together, because while we went to this, we met in this sort of dating group for autistic people, we wouldn't have met each other. So I can't say that it's all bad um being autistic.
00:21:01.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, sure. yeah that makes it kind of sense.
00:21:02.16
Riley Odell
it's It's informed it's informed a ah a lot of the way my is um and i yeah
00:21:15.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
I think you hit on something really important, which is that, and this is going to sound like a sweeping generalization, but it's something that I've lived. So I'm just going to say it like it's a fact. Neurodivergent people, when they connect with each other, do tend to go deeper.
00:21:32.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because if you start, I mean, I've struck up conversations with complete strangers in bookstores, and nobody's talking about like, how's the weather? Or did you see, you know, the new sign on such and such street?
00:21:45.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
it goes deep. It's like, hey, you're at a bookstore. Why are you here? Well, because, you know, I'm feeling kind of suicidal right now, so I thought I'd get, so you know, and and people just are out with it.
00:21:55.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
People just tell you what's going on with them, and they really, you know, you you dig deeper with those people because ah particularly with autism, one of the ways in which autistic people communicate with each other is through shared experiences.
00:22:11.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, While neurotypical people might see that as some sort of one-upmanship, like I'm telling my story and then somebody else starts telling their stories, a lot of neurodivergent people totally get that like what you're saying when you tell your own story is like, yeah, that's relatable, i understand you, and here's why.
00:22:32.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then you have this connection that's based on shared experiences with somebody that you might have known for 15 minutes. Now you multiply that by an entire ass friendship, and...
00:22:43.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's this, you know, it's it's huge. And I can tell you in my life that I've had friendships that have lasted decades. And then you find out that like both of you were the same kind of neurodivergent the whole time. And neither of you knew. it just made a ton of sense. You knew that was the person who understood you.
00:23:03.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that was how who you hung out with because it just made sense to do so. So that's what that made me think of. And that's, it actually leads into your project, which is Divergent Realms.
00:23:18.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I want to hear all about it. So let's start with the broad strokes. What is Divergent Realms?
00:23:27.06
Riley Odell
ah Well, Divergent Realms,
00:23:32.18
Riley Odell
the the full The full title is Divergent Realm Science Fiction and Fantasy Stories about Neurodivergence. So that title um explains quite a bit about what it is. There's 14, it's an anthology of 14 stories, science and fiction,
00:23:57.30
Riley Odell
science fiction and fantasy stories about neurodivergent characters written by neurodivergent writers. um And, you know, as a writer, I'm always looking for places to submit my short stories.
00:24:16.09
Riley Odell
And I've noticed there are always a lot of open calls out there um asking for
00:24:16.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:24:26.71
Riley Odell
um work ah that are exclusive calls for writers that are, you know, um on the LGBTQ spectrum or writers of color. And, i you know, that's great.
00:24:42.52
Riley Odell
um But, ah you know, you get the impression sometimes that the idea of diversity in publishing usually just means kind of, um, those two things or, um, you rarely,
00:25:06.74
Riley Odell
ah neurodivergent or I rarely see mentioned in discussions of neuro of diversity in writing or publishing.
00:25:19.61
Riley Odell
um I mean, i know of very few anthologies featuring work that are, that's only from neurodivergent writers.
00:25:29.82
Riley Odell
I think there's one called spectrum and autistic core anthology. um and I, there's one other that I came across that I don't remember the name of right now, but there are so many neurodivergent people in the world. And so it's kind of like, why isn't there more,
00:25:49.34
Riley Odell
um Why aren't there more anthologies or collections like that? um You know, well, I've talked a little bit about my brain being kind of a mess a lot of time, and that's the case for a lot of neurodivergent people. And so writing is very, can be very difficult for us. And so I feel like having submission calls that are just for neurodivergent people can be really, um, beneficial and helpful.
00:26:22.72
Riley Odell
Um, so I just decided to go ahead and, um, make one myself.
00:26:23.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:26:31.98
Riley Odell
Um, I wanted to make an anthology that gives voices to people whose perspectives are often overlooked. um And well, I think it turned out pretty well.
00:26:46.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
That is awesome. And i think I think you're right. When we talk about demographics that are specifically sought, I think you know things like ah you know things that are just for women or just for BIPOC folk or LGBTQ folk, um I think that things like that make a lot of sense because those people are often, I don't want to say shut out of the industry, but they certainly have but a more difficult time breaking in And I wonder if with neurodivergence, because especially if you're doing all your communications via email and and internet related things, um you can't always tell as readily if someone has mental illness or neurodivergence. I think that probably the aspect of neurodivergence that keeps people out of the industry is more about
00:27:43.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
the creation of the work itself, that it's harder for us to write, it's harder for us to submit, you know, it's harder for us to like get a press packet together, all that there. So I think it's it's really interesting because my guess, and I don't know if you would even know the answer to this, is that having a call specifically for neurodivergent people,
00:28:05.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
one is welcoming because that is an issue with autistic folk that they don't always want to go to a place where they don't feel specifically invited, but also that it is inspiring and encouraging to say, hey, this guy literally wants to hear from people that are like me.
00:28:15.05
Riley Odell
right
00:28:22.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
I better get my shit together and send him something.
00:28:26.58
Riley Odell
yeah that um i kind of hoped to draw those kinds of writers um out of their shells, I guess, so to speak, uh, you know, people who might otherwise be afraid to submit or, um, that there's, there's something that's blocking them from doing so they that that I hoped to give them an opportunity to feel like, um, yeah yeah, that they could be that, um, something that would be a welcoming and inviting for them.
00:29:04.89
Riley Odell
um with my anthology and, uh, and, you know, I got, um, something like 80 submissions overall.
00:29:10.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now, oh, sorry, go ahead.
00:29:22.32
Riley Odell
I don't remember the exact number, but I think were, at least a couple of those people that told me, Hey, this is the first time that I'm ever submitting a story of mine.
00:29:36.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, cool.
00:29:36.38
Riley Odell
Um, I, I even accepted one of those, but yeah, it seems like, um, I, it was successful in, um, in inspiring some people to share their work who might not have otherwise.
00:29:36.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
oh
00:29:54.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
That is fantastic. fantastic Now, let me ask you about the downside, though, because I run a magazine and the thing that I hate more than anything is having to send a rejection letter. And when I started out, I used to write really detailed, like, I love this about your story. i didn't think this worked for us.
00:30:14.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
And ah ah in the last few years, I've kind of stopped doing that as much because it's so difficult. because then, you know, the writer wants to engage me in conversation. Sometimes people ask for free editing, but overall, I mean, I'm not the, the, the fact that I'm publishing in this magazine doesn't mean like I'm the queen of publication. So if I don't accept your story, that doesn't mean that the story wasn't good or that you're not good as a writer.
00:30:44.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
And i want so much to figure out a way to convey that in a short, succinct way that doesn't sound like condescending bullshit. And I haven't found it yet. How how do you feel about rejections and doing it? Like, what's your philosophy?
00:31:02.30
Riley Odell
Yeah, well, um it's never fun to send them. And
00:31:08.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
right.
00:31:09.62
Riley Odell
um i just, I think I just kind of cooked up a short, succinct form rejection that I sent out to, um, any anyone whose story that I didn't accept.
00:31:27.74
Riley Odell
And some of those stories were, um very good. i feel like there, there were probably two primary reasons that I would reject a story for the anthology, either that it was, um,
00:31:48.38
Riley Odell
either that the the writing just wasn't that great. It felt like maybe it was kind of from someone just starting out and they needed to sort of hone their work more before that before they'd be ready to have their stories published. And the other you know the other reason that i would I found myself sending rejections was that some of the stories were very good, but I didn't feel like the sort of the neurodivergent element was prominent enough.
00:32:16.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
I see.
00:32:16.86
Riley Odell
um And it was is especially hard with some of those, i think, to send the rejection.
00:32:22.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:32:25.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, because when you know that somebody is trying really hard and feels passionate about something, it's so hard to be like, yeah, okay, thanks, but no. um
00:32:37.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, definitely my my least favorite part about publishing because sending acceptances and then the contracts, because, you know, you feel so professional when you send someone a contract. um are you Are you planning a follow-up anthology? It sounds like you had some success with this one.
00:32:55.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
Surely there is much, much more to say on this topic.
00:33:00.73
Riley Odell
Well, success in terms of how it's been received um and such. ah Monetary success, not as much, but I haven't really found that with anything that I've written.
00:33:19.26
Riley Odell
um So it's kind of all just ah for the love, but I would say that creating anthologies I've found to be ah quite exhausting and I'm done with it for now.
00:33:35.68
Riley Odell
I'm just wanting to focus on my own work for the foreseeable future.
00:33:37.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, it's just it's a ton of work for sure. Yeah, that makes sense. That totally does. So so yeah how has the reception been? i mean, it it sounds like you're helping people. um are you Are you getting the word out? Because marketing is always the the toughest part.
00:33:55.19
Riley Odell
Yeah. And, uh,
00:34:00.40
Riley Odell
definitely, um not, not very good at that at all myself. Uh, struggling to get the word out, but I mean, reviews from people who have read it are good.
00:34:12.92
Riley Odell
um it won. I, a I mean, i submitted it to a few like um
00:34:26.90
Riley Odell
to a few sort of indie book awards. Like, uh, I think there was like next generation indie book awards was one of them and a couple of others. And it performed quite well in the ones that I submitted it to. i think I, um, it was a finalist in a couple of them in the, in their anthologies category. And it was, uh, it took the third place bronze, uh,
00:34:54.39
Riley Odell
um, winner in another one of them. Um, and so it, yeah, it's gotten that kind of recognition as well.
00:34:59.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
Cool.
00:35:05.17
Riley Odell
Um, when I, when I am able to get it out in front of people, it's, it seems like they, they, they really like it and they like, um, sort of what it's about and what I'm trying to do with it in terms of, um,
00:35:24.76
Riley Odell
helping people share their, their voices and their experience is, um and sort of, um getting more neurodivergent representation out there.
00:35:42.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
That is so great. um And, you know, representation is kind of a hot button issue because it seems when you talk about representation, it seems like a very basic, like, yeah, if we're watching media, it should involve everyone because they're the humanities. So anybody human should be included.
00:36:01.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
And there are people that want to push back against that. And that the wild thing about it to me is that the reason they don't like having varied representation is because they've never had it before. So now it feels like an agenda.
00:36:17.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
When in fact, the real agenda was pretending that everybody is white and everybody is straight and everybody is Christian and everybody is, you know, neurotypical and everybody has like basically the same religion as everybody else. And then when you deviate from that, people are like, hey, what's this? What's your agenda? Like, no, dude, you were already lulled to sleep by an agenda. And now that people are saying, hey, let's represent represent everybody.
00:36:46.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
people are losing their minds i mean as an american i did not see a black woman on tv that wasn't either a maid or a secretary until oh gosh uh i think the jeffersons because i'm a little young that like neo to uhuro was also like already in reruns by the time i was cognizant of the tv that i was watching but you just you didn't see it you know so And then you would think fast forwarding like 60 or some so years in the future that people wouldn't still be saying representation. Why do we have that? Why do there have to be girls and things? Why do there have to be brown people or black people? Like, come on, man.
00:37:32.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
So actually you are in Colorado and I don't know very much about the sociopolitical climate in Colorado. So how, how is that going where you are?
00:37:49.03
Riley Odell
Well,
00:37:51.99
Riley Odell
you know, I might not know a whole lot more hum than than you do.
00:37:56.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Thank you.
00:37:58.03
Riley Odell
I mean, i don't get it out a lot or know a whole lot of people, but I think that for now things are going about as well as they can be.
00:38:09.24
Riley Odell
um Well, there are a lot of people here fighting to minimize the impact of the current chaos that's going on.
00:38:19.42
Riley Odell
um But, you know, just like anywhere, I think a lot of people are struggling too. um and
00:38:26.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Is there a lot of ice presence where you are?
00:38:30.36
Riley Odell
um I haven't seen them. my my friend, i have a, I have a friend who, um goes out more than I do. And he he is often on the lookout for them. And he's, he's seen some convoys going around that he thought were probably, uh, ice with ice.
00:38:56.38
Riley Odell
Um, and ah unfortunately I've heard stories that the, that the local police have been helping them out around here in some cases.
00:39:05.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Eww.
00:39:06.62
Riley Odell
um Yeah, but again, I i haven't seen lot. um And it's, to yeah, and worried that it's all downhill from here, but.
00:39:22.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, that kind of brings me to my next question. um i know this is kind of a generalization, but among autistic people, there is something called justice sensitivity.
00:39:34.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
And basically it it it relates to people having a particularly difficult time when there's a lot of rampant injustice or unfairness in the world. Is this something that you find yourself to be particularly sensitive about?
00:39:50.94
Riley Odell
um Yeah, absolutely. ah you know
00:39:58.17
Riley Odell
i
00:40:01.17
Riley Odell
I do my best to stay away from the news at this point in time. um i mean, there's the part of me that wants to know
00:40:16.66
Riley Odell
what's going on and i mean maybe to try to be more um prepared for stuff but it just it oh man it it can really be so painful um and send me into um just depression for like hours at a time if i
00:40:26.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Uh-huh.
00:40:44.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, dude, the day that I saw that video of the kid that got kidnapped from Target and I just, I mean, he was a citizen, but they didn't check. They beat the crap out of him and then took him to a different store. Like, wasn't even a Target. They took him to like a Walmart or something and just threw him outside like a bag of trash.
00:41:02.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
And this poor guy was just like working. He was doing his job and they just came and took him. And I don't, I'm having a hard time with the,
00:41:14.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
the preemptive compliance that I'm seeing. Because when a bunch of masked guys wearing vests that you know you can buy at Amazon for $35 come up on you and start telling you that they're law enforcement, who says?
00:41:30.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
Who says you're law enforcement? I can't see your face. You're not showing a badge. Your shirt says police and ICE. You can't be both of those things at the same time. So, I mean, it's so infuriating.
00:41:44.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
That, I mean, the the whole Trump thing, the thing that's been hardest on me has been finding out how many people are cowards and how many people really don't stand up for what they say they do.
00:41:58.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
So there's this like baseline sadness. And then I think over that, there's like a layer of anger. That's like, okay, so not only are you a bunch of cowards, but you're just completely ineffectual. Every time I see a congressperson get on social media and they're like, hey, we're making new rules about the milk your kid drinks at school. Like, who the hell cares? We just don't want them shot. So I don't mean to like ramble and ramble about politics, but God damn, it makes me mad.
00:42:26.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
So...
00:42:30.20
Riley Odell
Yeah, definitely. feel quite lot
00:42:38.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, yeah, that's...
00:42:39.10
Riley Odell
i feel i feel quite a lot of anger about all of that
00:42:42.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
the The long pause followed by a sigh, I think, really, really ah sums it up.
00:42:43.26
Riley Odell
as well
00:42:47.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
um I do want to get back into your work, though. Now, I went to your link tree, and one of the links there is a place called um Regret, which ah seems sort of ominous, but it's a game, right?
00:43:02.27
Riley Odell
That's right.
00:43:03.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Tell me about it.
00:43:03.64
Riley Odell
Yeah. Well, I chose the name specifically for its ominous vibe. It's a puzzle game, and the goal is to search for clues in images and text.
00:43:18.87
Riley Odell
um that will lead you to a word. And if you've got the right word, you put it in the ah URL. Um, and it basically, it will take you to a page with the next, uh, the next level.
00:43:29.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
Thank
00:43:36.12
Riley Odell
Um, and you know, it's, it's got somewhat of a horror theme. um there's a small story that's uncovered as you progress.
00:43:47.77
Riley Odell
Um, the i've made another game like it as well called immolation which is on actually on itch.io um and it's a more recent game and in my opinion i think it's probably you know the better of the two but um it has kind of more of a story and i i think the the The puzzles are are more complex, but I kind of designed both games to be as difficult as I could possibly make them. So if anyone wants to brave either one, then they should be prepared to spend a lot of time.
00:44:29.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, so I don't know a whole lot about games. I certainly know even less about how they're created. So when you tell me that you designed a game and you put it up online, what does that entail?
00:44:42.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Is that a coding thing? You have to write lines of code to do that?
00:44:47.80
Riley Odell
ah With regret, I did not have to. um i I just... I used... I used a website builder, and it's... It's pretty much as simple as um uploading images and text.
00:45:08.38
Riley Odell
um And then to each page... and just just creating a number of different pages.
00:45:19.90
Riley Odell
um And each has its own URL. And so if you get if you get the right word from a level, then you know you'll be it will take you to one of those many pages. um
00:45:37.22
Riley Odell
Immolation is kind of... a more, um, complicated thing where I, I did use a, some software, um, that's not really a software that's designed for making games of that type. I kind of, um, ah it's the software is called, um, well,
00:46:09.08
Riley Odell
ah it's called Twine, and it's for making interactive fiction. And I kind of brute-forced it into... um i like i I do write some interactive fiction with the software, and as I was getting used to it, I thought, oh, I could possibly i could possibly use this to also make this type of game.
00:46:31.80
Riley Odell
um and I did have to brute-force it a little bit to make it work, but I think it was...
00:46:31.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. okay
00:46:37.24
Riley Odell
And that there's a fair amount of... um
00:46:42.69
Riley Odell
Twine has its own code that you kind of have to learn. So there's it there's it it's a fair amount of coding and stuff.
00:46:53.27
Riley Odell
um But I think it was ultimately easier than... using some of the actual like game design software that's out there i found that to be more um somewhat more impenetrable um in terms and terms of getting used to how it works um and how to make games with it like like game maker and some of those other programs that exist unity um and such
00:47:16.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:47:25.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right. Now I want to get into, ah well, we we actually, there's one question on our show that we do not ask without affirmative consent from our for mar guest. And you did agree to tell us about a time in your life where you felt in legitimate fear for your life. Like you thought, hey, maybe this is it. um And and be I just, what what would you like to say about that? What do you want to tell us?
00:47:56.41
Riley Odell
Well, I don't think there has been a time in my life when I have come that close um to biting it.
00:48:07.51
Riley Odell
ah There have been times when I've had kind of a... um
00:48:19.83
Riley Odell
Well, like being ah back when I was still in in in school, i I had the, you know, I had kind of just the the ongoing fear that someone might burst into my classroom today one day and shoot me in the head because that that's something that just happens in this country sometimes.
00:48:42.07
Riley Odell
um
00:48:42.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:48:43.19
Riley Odell
it wasn't It wasn't an immediate fear that, oh, I'm going to die,
00:48:50.30
Riley Odell
you know, right now, but it, it was, is, you know, it's a, a fear that I, I might, um, die. uh, there've, as far as, I mean, probably the time that I've been most afraid in my life, what didn't pertain to fear of my own death, but rather, um, my, when we were in Panama, um, my parents and my sister and I, ah they they were mugged coming back from a restaurant and my dad got stabbed in the chest.
00:49:24.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh my god.
00:49:25.02
Riley Odell
And, you know, I thought maybe he was going to die, but it was this superficial wound as we soon figured out. um I think that's when ah that was the time when I was.
00:49:34.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
That is terrifying.
00:49:36.07
Riley Odell
Yeah. Yeah. That's probably that was probably the most terrifying moment that I've had in my life, I think.
00:49:44.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I'd actually, if if we can, I'd like to talk a little more about what you're saying about in intrusive thoughts in terms of like school shootings. um because it can be easy to dismiss that and say, yeah everybody's afraid of school shootings because they're terrible. But if you have to be in a school all the time or you're sending your kid to a school, I know I talk about this with parents a lot. um And if you're someone who deals with intrusive thoughts or repetitive thoughts, that's no joke, man. That can be debilitating, like mentally and emotionally.
00:50:23.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
um How is that going? Like, are you, are you okay?
00:50:30.42
Riley Odell
Oh, yeah, I mean, I'm fine.
00:50:35.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'm not sure that I would be fine if that was something that I had to live with. Um, But the reason i want to talk a little bit about the reason that we we talk about this question with people. And that is because the first of all, the answers that we get are way more varied than our answers to the the first horror movie question. But also that feeling like you are about to die is another one of those situations um that can be isolating.
00:51:07.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
that people don't wanna talk about because it's scary and because you can learn things about yourself and you can need a change of underwear depending on the situation. There are a lot of things in it in a life or death fear situation that are difficult and embarrassing and and again, feel isolating.
00:51:26.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
So I'm always wanting to be as blunt as we can and cover as many difficult topics as we can. um for that reason, to to connect with people. And so that people who maybe don't feel comfortable reaching out to have those discussions can listen to somebody else having them and and still reap the benefits. You know what i mean?
00:51:51.98
Riley Odell
Yeah.
00:51:52.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
So that's why we do it. And that is why I asked. um And i'm I'm horrified to think that you had to watch your dad getting stabbed. How old were you?
00:52:02.65
Riley Odell
Oh, I wasn't there. i mean, um not for the stabbing itself. Uh, cause I had gone ahead of them when, uh, when left, we were at a restaurant and I had left before they did and went back to our hotel. And then they, it happened to them while they were walking back. I think I was 20, maybe 23 or 24, I'm not quite sure.
00:52:28.38
Riley Odell
um
00:52:31.83
Riley Odell
that true maybe twenty
00:52:36.28
Riley Odell
three or twenty four i'm i'm not quite sure
00:52:37.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:52:41.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. Now, a lot of the people that I interview on the show, I know personally, or we've been online friends for a long time. You are not a person like that. I am really just having my first conversation with you today. So we don't know a whole lot about each other. um do you have a day drop? What is it that you do?
00:53:03.12
Riley Odell
Well, i I don't actually. and um
00:53:12.41
Riley Odell
Yeah, i've I kind of have some fortunate circumstances that have allowed me to just focus on my writing.
00:53:24.12
Riley Odell
which So i do do I try to do that for about 24 hours a week, four hours a day, six days a week.
00:53:25.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's awesome.
00:53:31.83
Riley Odell
um don't always Don't always hit that.
00:53:32.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:53:34.36
Riley Odell
but and Well, writing and writing related work, I say, not it's not all um it's not all writing, but like i'm I'm counting this podcast as part of my four hours today, for instance, but...
00:53:50.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:53:50.65
Riley Odell
um Yeah, but it's ah it's very fortunate because between my autism, ADHD, and chronic illness, i think there are probably very few jobs I can think of that wouldn't be an absolute nightmare for me. And um probably if i if i didn't um you know if I didn't have the people helping me out financially that I do, I'd probably have to go on disability and it would suck.
00:54:21.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, I get it, man.
00:54:21.62
Riley Odell
but
00:54:22.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
I get it. If I didn't have a husband, I'd be living in a refrigerator box under the bridge, man. Because i am in no way capable of ah i mean, when I was like you know in my 30s, I think was kind of the last gasp of going out and working a job and pretending that it wasn't like devastating me and it wrecked my body and you know everything else.
00:54:43.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
So... So yeah, I get that. And the interesting thing is i cannot go on disability because my husband has a job. So the prevalent belief is that if your spouse is working, that they are 100% cool supporting you.
00:54:59.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
And i don't I don't know that families have been able to comfortably live on one average income since like my mom was little.
00:55:00.43
Riley Odell
All right.
00:55:07.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
like i don't I don't know that that's been a thing in this country for a long time.
00:55:12.79
Riley Odell
Yeah, that that that system could definitely use some work.
00:55:17.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, that's kind of the joke, right? Because when The Simpsons went on the air in 1989, it was not considered preposterous for a family of five to so to live on one salary. So I guess I aged that up a little for my mom because she was born in 1950. But anyway, in 89, if you had a mom who stayed home and there were three kids and they had two cars and they owned a home, now they had to borrow a little money to to buy the home.
00:55:43.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
but they make their payments just fine. And at one point, I think Homer wanted to have a job that he enjoyed more, but he had to keep his job at the power plant because they were having a third child.
00:55:56.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, so that was that was the financial reality in 1989 when The Simpsons started. And today, the idea that some dumbass who could barely keep his job at the power plant and a mom who has never really worked for any appreciable amount of time can have ah a full ass house and two cars and three kids that all do activities. And, you know, Bart has a lawyer and, you know. It's it's crazy. it's It's fantasy because most of us don't know anybody that has one income household and they're living well. Like it's it's so rare.
00:56:34.49
Riley Odell
Yeah, definitely, definitely couldn't happen that way now
00:56:40.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right? and it's that And I think the point of the thing is that a lot of it comes back to that idea that we call having a job earning a living. Because if you don't get out there and toil to make someone else money, then you don't deserve it.
00:56:56.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
and And we're seeing that now, I think, from our government and people like, you know, Hegseth and and Stephen Miller that don't really do much but, like, hurt women and and and bash minorities. But those are the people that are like, oh, well, if you can't do an honest day's work for an honest day's wage...
00:57:16.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, you... I don't know where these people get their audacity, first of all.
00:57:19.48
Riley Odell
yeah they're doing lots of honest work themselves huh
00:57:21.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
But... Exactly. Exactly. Gee, I wish I could work as hard as Pete Hegseth. I mean, putting away a fifth of whiskey a day probably is thirsty work. But I'm sure I would not know.
00:57:33.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Because I'm too busy getting stoned. but But no, I mean... To hear like ah RFK j explaining how people that drink soda and eat snacks don't deserve food stamps or health insurance because they're not taking good care of their bodies.
00:57:51.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, okay, I think there might be a case to be made that if we get government funded health insurance, we have a responsibility to treat us, to treat ourselves well and to be as healthy as we're able to be.
00:58:06.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
I don't want to hear that from anybody who has repeatedly shot heroin into their veins. I don't think that's the right person to advise me on my potato chip consumption.
00:58:14.64
Riley Odell
No, quite hypocritical there, yeah.
00:58:17.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and that's the thing, is that, like, in politics, outing someone as a hypocrite and bringing receipts used to be devastating. People cared whether or not their politicians were hypocrites. And that's not true anymore.
00:58:31.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
You got people calling themselves pro-life and they're out there cheering for ice. So, but I digress.
00:58:38.36
Riley Odell
Right?
00:58:40.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now, you are involved in a bunch of different genres. You do sci-fi, you do horror, you write funny stuff, informational pieces, fantasy. um What I would like to talk about is how you parse what kind of stories are best told in what genre. Like if you have a ah a ah particular point you want to make, how do you decide how you're going to tell that story? Like in terms of genre and and let's also say point of view, because that's really important.
00:59:17.56
Riley Odell
Um, um,
00:59:24.18
Riley Odell
pretty much anytime I, for, for me, at least, uh, as a story ideas kind of just kind of, kind of born together with a ah genre.
00:59:36.70
Riley Odell
Um, like for instance, I write many short stories that are just based on silly ideas. Um,
00:59:47.45
Riley Odell
and just from the ideas themselves being so ridiculous, I know from the get go that it's going to be a comedy. Um, I mean, I guess it always feels obvious to that, like that to me, what the genre should be for any idea that I come up with.
01:00:06.81
Riley Odell
Um, I, although I do think any type of story can be matched to any genre really, yeah you know, um,
01:00:11.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:00:17.05
Riley Odell
yeah Even the silliest ideas i come up with could be played straight if I if i wanted to, but um
01:00:29.50
Riley Odell
I mean, sorry, I've lost my train of thought here.
01:00:36.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I think I just found out that my wrong mic was on. So even though I muted myself, you could hear me coughing. And so I'm sure that destroyed your train of thought. And that is super embarrassing for me as a host.
01:00:46.90
Riley Odell
Oh no, it's not a problem.
01:00:47.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
so
01:00:53.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
But so so it sounds like you're saying that when the idea is sort of originating in your head, that you already have a pretty clear sense of who's telling the story and in what genre they're going to be telling it. And I think that makes sense because some things are just naturally like, like if if your story starts with an elf, like, gee, I guess that's probably fantasy.
01:01:16.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
Not necessarily, but I would imagine that some of these things have their own direction, like a natural movement towards the genre.
01:01:20.12
Riley Odell
Yeah, most likely.
01:01:25.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:01:28.86
Riley Odell
Yeah.
01:01:30.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
So do you write anything directly from your own life?
01:01:38.42
Riley Odell
Sometimes i i put little bits in pieces in there. I haven't written anything that can be called i autobiographical exactly, maybe semi-autobiographical.
01:01:51.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I think I'm i'm getting at like the fictionalized, not not necessarily a Mary Sue, I forget what the male term is for that, where you're writing ah a character that is essentially you, but you're not going to admit that it's you, and it's just fictionalized enough that you can point to things that say, well, of course that's not me.
01:02:10.97
Riley Odell
Yeah, I write a lot of autistic characters and it's it's pretty obvious why. um
01:02:19.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:02:21.02
Riley Odell
So that's that's definitely... mean... yeah i mean Parts of me probably end up in all of my characters, I think. I don't know how you can... I don't think it's possible to write a character without that, some aspect of you leaking in even at least a little bit.
01:02:43.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, i think I think that's true, but I also think that not every writer is aware of that. I don't know if you're familiar with a rather famous interview with Anne Rice, ah where I don't know how much you know about Anne Rice, but Anne Rice had a child who died in real life. um And they were they were quite young.
01:03:04.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
And in her book, Interview with a Vampire, they the the two men well one of them uh listat makes a little girl into a vampire so she can't grow up but she also can't die and so when someone asked anne rice oh is this ah a reference to your daughter and that you know your coping tool was to create a child who couldn't die and she was pissed She was horrified. She vehemently denied it. she i don't know if she actually stopped the interview, but boy, was she unhappy and not wanting to discuss that in any capacity.
01:03:43.98
Riley Odell
Oh.
01:03:45.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right? And that's the thing is that it seems so obvious.
01:03:46.49
Riley Odell
Well...
01:03:48.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
And while I wouldn't presume to tell an author what their own book is about, that's that's pretty tough to deny.
01:04:00.76
Riley Odell
Yeah.
01:04:04.02
Riley Odell
But it being such a painful subject, I guess, you don't really...
01:04:04.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:04:07.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right? Well, that's the thing, is that on the one hand, it seems like an obvious question, but also bringing up someone's deceased child in an interview is something you should probably clear ahead of time.
01:04:22.17
Riley Odell
Yeah, it seems quite direct.
01:04:25.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, you know, i've I've never really been a fan of, I mean, people so have a lot to say about Barbara Walters and her interview style and how great she is and how she gets to the bottom of things. Boy, she has the tough questions. And I i think a lot of that is is crap. I mean, yeah, she's gotten to talk to some influential people. But when I was a little kid, she asked Brooke Shields whether or not she was wearing underwear.
01:04:50.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
on And I mean, Brooke Shields, I think, was maybe 15 or 16 at the time. And Barbara Walters is supposed to be a friggin' journalist, and she had no problem saying that to her.
01:05:01.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, right?
01:05:02.55
Riley Odell
Bizarre.
01:05:04.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and again, in the 70s and 80s, we looked at those things as a society very differently. So maybe if you're interviewing a 16-year-old girl,
01:05:15.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
who has been nude in an r-rated film maybe that question felt more appropriate um but i still i can't get past it i can't call a woman a serious journalism journalist after something like that and again that's just my um opinion i'm not the queen of journalism but if If you're trying to be a journalism, maybe maybe don't do that.
01:05:41.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
If you're trying to do a journalism.
01:05:42.20
Riley Odell
Sure.
01:05:42.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah but But getting back to you, um what I need to know is if somebody is unfamiliar with all of your work, where is the best place for them to start? Now you have a link tree and we're going to have that in the description, but what would you advise?
01:06:01.59
Riley Odell
Well, you know, my the my first collection, Vile Visions, is free. ah And the stories in there present a pretty solid overview of what my writing is like.
01:06:15.05
Riley Odell
So that's a pretty obvious starting point. I have a Vile Visions Volume 2.
01:06:20.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wait, the whole first collection is free. All of it.
01:06:25.62
Riley Odell
ah that's Yes, that's correct.
01:06:27.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
That is dope.
01:06:30.39
Riley Odell
Yeah. And, uh, Vile Visions volume two, um, is what I hope people, if they like Vile Visions one, they'll go on to buy Vile Visions two.
01:06:45.06
Riley Odell
That one, um, that one was a finalist for the Wonderland award this last year, for superior achievement and bizarro fiction.
01:06:51.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, neat.
01:06:57.11
Riley Odell
um,
01:06:59.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, cool.
01:07:00.38
Riley Odell
So, yeah i mean, either of those are good starting points. You you don't have to have Red Vile Visions 1 to read 2, but I mean, you might as well because it's the first one's free.
01:07:12.60
Riley Odell
um
01:07:13.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right?
01:07:13.94
Riley Odell
But definitely ah everyone who's interested should check those out. And I mean, obviously, you know, if you're neurodivergent or just like the idea of science fiction and fantasy from underrepresented underrepresented perspectives, then Divergent Realms, um, is definitely one that you should check out. Uh, or, um, or if somebody wants to read something that's just so somewhat more lighthearted, fun and comedic, um,
01:07:54.20
Riley Odell
then my novella Shit, Love, and Burgers is where I would tell them to go. Mm-hmm.
01:08:01.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Evocative title. I like it. who Cool. Okay, so, um... Wait, what was I going to say? it was on the tip of my tongue.
01:08:14.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
Saliva. No, it... I'm going to have to cut out this long pause while I remember what I was about to say.
01:08:25.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
I don't know. I don't remember what I was about to say. I don't write everything down, so I don't know. But we are um nearing the end of my list of questions, so I need to know if there's anything that you wanted to talk about that we did not get to.
01:08:42.60
Riley Odell
Um, I can't think of anything really.
01:08:44.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, yeah, i mean, we covered a lot of ground, certainly. um And also, i wanted to ask, sometimes authors will give us a short reading.
01:08:55.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
at the end of the interview so that is something that you can get together on your own and just send to me and we'll tack it on to the end but what do you think you want to read us a short story
01:09:12.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
see we got to tell people whether or not to expect it at the end of the interview
01:09:12.13
Riley Odell
Well, I
01:09:17.59
Riley Odell
yeah i don't i don't know what I would read. I don't have anything that I...
01:09:23.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, that's not a good enough reason not to do it. That just means you need more time to pick something.
01:09:27.82
Riley Odell
i've got to I've got to find something.
01:09:31.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, if you've got a collection that you're giving out for free, it's probably a good idea to pick something from that collection to introduce people to your work. And they don't even have to get up or hit any buttons on their phone to like get there. It'll just appear after the interview.
01:09:51.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
Duh!
01:09:51.67
Riley Odell
Yeah?
01:09:52.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, well, I think you should do it, but I'll tell our readers that if you don't want to give us a story read that they can enjoy, then I'll put up a free story of my own. And so you're going to get a story at the end of this episode regardless. And you can just be surprised whether or not it's me or the guest.
01:10:11.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
How about that? Hmm.
01:10:14.10
Riley Odell
OK, yeah, I'll find something.
01:10:15.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
I bet you will. i have I have very little doubt. And the interview, this is probably not going to go up for a couple of weeks. So you have plenty of time to to do a read. And if you want to use this interface that we're using here to record with, I can totally hook you up with that too. So we'll make it happen. I love doing audio books. I think it is really fun and it is an interesting way to get a new perspective on your work because your work feels different when you're reading it out loud as opposed to reading it in your head.
01:10:48.35
Riley Odell
Yeah, very true.
01:10:48.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
I didn't know that until my first podcast years ago, years and years ago. um Another thing that we actually like to do is to give the guest a chance to ask me a question if you want to. So if there's something you want to know, now is the time for that.
01:11:08.65
Riley Odell
Well, uh,
01:11:13.21
Riley Odell
not if you're wearing underwear. Hmm. I don't care.
01:11:18.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well...
01:11:19.19
Riley Odell
i don't care to know that one way or the other. um No, I can't really think of anything.
01:11:25.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, well, you know, I'm not very interesting, so that would stand to reason. Um...
01:11:30.39
Riley Odell
say you're you're interesting. I'm just ah I'm not great. at I'm not great at thinking of questions to ask people, I guess so.
01:11:38.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, well, I'll just use this opportunity then to let everybody know that I am wearing underwear, but because we are audio and not video, I am not wearing, like, outer pants. Underpants, yes.
01:11:51.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
Pants, pants, no. So, I'm wearing a long night shirt right now because I didn't even bother getting dressed. That's just how I roll. And what that actually means then is that it is time for the Mad Libs. So, I hope you are ready for this.
01:12:07.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Looks like we're starting with adjectives, and I'm going to need one, two, three. Three adjectives is what I need from you.
01:12:20.22
Riley Odell
Three adjectives.
01:12:21.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:12:21.91
Riley Odell
Okay. um Cheesy.
01:12:30.68
Riley Odell
Let's see. Fun. Fun.
01:12:34.23
Riley Odell
warm
01:12:37.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, and one more.
01:12:44.95
Riley Odell
ah fun
01:12:46.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, now I am going to need some singular nouns. I will need one, two, three, four of those. Yes.
01:12:56.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh wait, no. One, two, three, four, five singular nouns.
01:13:05.59
Riley Odell
Okay, um...
01:13:11.19
Riley Odell
Horse.
01:13:16.92
Riley Odell
Finger.
01:13:20.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:13:21.19
Riley Odell
Uh...
01:13:29.01
Riley Odell
Hmm...
01:13:32.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
Let's see, I need three more nouns that are singular.
01:13:37.80
Riley Odell
uh
01:13:40.92
Riley Odell
ceiling
01:13:45.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
01:13:51.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
See, this is how we know that you're a real writer, because you are feeling the pressure during Mad Libs, and only only writers feel the pressure to come up with good words during Mad Libs. Everybody else just looks around the room.
01:14:05.46
Riley Odell
Oh, well, that's kind of what I'm doing anyway. Okay.
01:14:07.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I figured that when you said stealing, but I didn't want to embarrass you. So two more nouns.
01:14:14.74
Riley Odell
I'll go tree.
01:14:18.91
Riley Odell
And butt. tree
01:14:23.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right.
01:14:26.14
Riley Odell
and ah but
01:14:30.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right. Now we need a couple of plural nouns. I'm going to need one, two, three, four of those.
01:14:39.77
Riley Odell
Okay, feet.
01:14:45.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:14:47.55
Riley Odell
Lions.
01:14:49.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right.
01:14:54.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
two more.
01:15:03.39
Riley Odell
Shirts.
01:15:06.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
right.
01:15:09.13
Riley Odell
Mountains.
01:15:11.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, great. And now we need a verb.
01:15:19.82
Riley Odell
Dive.
01:15:22.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
And a part of the body, plural.
01:15:26.55
Riley Odell
but of black- uh... noses.
01:15:31.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
Noses. Okay, cool. That is everything. So this is from the sports section of the Madley book. And it it this is called stickball. If you don't live near a cheesy baseball field, you can always play stickball, the city version of baseball.
01:15:50.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
You will need a warm stick, a rubber ball, and bases to dive around. a lot of things in the street can be used as bases. Sewers, manhole covers, and feet.
01:16:03.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
You don't need a pitcher and stickball. The players just toss the horse in the air and hit it themselves. Warning. You have to be careful not to hit lions parked along the sides of the road.
01:16:17.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
And if you hit a fly ball, keep your noses crossed so it doesn't go through any glass shirts. Also, if possible, play on a finger with very little ceiling traffic.
01:16:30.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
As long as you observe safety precautions, stickball can be just as much tree as the fun game of baseball. So get all your neighborhood mountains together and play butt.
01:16:46.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
See, that is the definition of irreverence. That's what that is.
01:16:52.55
Riley Odell
I'm just trying to figure out how to cross my nose.
01:16:58.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, think you need a friend for that one. You need to cross noses. ah All right, man. Well, I am so glad that you could be here. This was a fun episode and I learned stuff, which is always my favorite thing.
01:17:12.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
um And we want to remind all of our guests that we will be back next week. And also that the favorite, the best way to support the show is to support the magazine. which is sometimes hilarious horror, and you can find us on kofi.
01:17:28.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
So thanks so much for being here, Riley.
01:17:31.86
Riley Odell
Yeah, thank you for having me.
01:17:33.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
And we will see everybody next week.
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