Mentally Oddcast Transcript: Sci-Fi, Fantasy, and RPG Writer: David A Hill
Hear the audio of this podcast here.
Find more from this week's guest here.
00:00:00.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
You are listening to the Mentally Oddcast. My name is Wednesday, Lee Friday. And with us this week... Oh, you know what? I forgot to say that we are brought to you... You know what? going start again.
00:00:11.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sorry.
00:00:11.86
mothshade
Okay.
00:00:13.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
You are listening to the Mentally Oddcast. My name is Wednesday, leave Friday. And we are brought to you by Sometimes Hilarious Horror Magazine. Do find us on Ko-fi. This week, we have David A. Hill... who is a Wednesday's child who writes to share his woes with the entire world. At age five, he started his first novel, a ripoff, nope, nope, homage to The Hobbit, but set on Mars. He now tries his hand at freelance writing, illustration, and role-playing game design.
00:00:46.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
He has had science, fantasy, poetry, and short and short fiction in various magazines, co-authored a humorous sword and sorcery tale for the anthology from, is that Loconial Publishing?
00:01:02.20
mothshade
Your guess is as good as mine.
00:01:02.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
h and And actually, David was also an associate editor and interviewer for Lore magazine. He has one unpublished non-Martian novel finished, and at least five more in the cylinder.
00:01:19.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
The rest of his efforts are lovingly devoted to the tabletop role-playing game industry. Welcome, David. Thank you for being here.
00:01:27.38
mothshade
Hello, it is wonderful to be here talking to you.
00:01:29.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yay! um We typically start by asking guests to tell us the story of the first horror movie that they remember seeing. Now, I know that you are not a horror guy by trade, but everybody has seen a horror movie at some point, so give me yours.
00:01:46.39
mothshade
Okay, well, um I can choose the earliest one I saw when I was about five years old in the movie theater, um and that's if you consider Young Frankenstein a horror movie.
00:02:01.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes, I do.
00:02:02.78
mothshade
Okay, great. Well, I actually was able to watch that in, excuse me, an original release in the movie theater when I was only about five,
00:02:14.23
mothshade
five or six. And, um, it was a wonder. Um, it was amazing. i was just, um, I was completely absorbed and, um,
00:02:29.21
mothshade
and Gene Wilder was, um, I mean, he quickly became a hero of mine and i just, I mean, it was amazing. Um, I, I didn't know, you know, what I was actually watching the nuances of everything. And it was,
00:02:48.41
mothshade
I'm an homage you know to other films. you know Obviously, this is my it's my first movie I ever watched in the movie theater. There's a whole new world open to me, and I was thrilled.
00:03:03.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'll bet. I'll bet. You know, it's it's interesting because that's the first movie that I remember seeing in a theater as well. I imagine I was taken to a Disney or something before then. but But yeah, I remember that really early on. And like, I knew at the time that people were laughing and it wasn't like a horror, horror movie.
00:03:22.77
mothshade
Yeah,
00:03:23.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
But at home, I had already seen like Abbott and Costello running around with horror guys. So I knew that like sometimes horror had laughter. at it I just kind of knew that.
00:03:33.56
mothshade
yeah I didn't even know it was a horror movie when I was watching it at the time.
00:03:34.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
So I...
00:03:35.96
mothshade
I really didn't.
00:03:36.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and a lot of people would say that it's not a horror movie, but it's got horror sets, it's got horrific things happening, they're bringing people back from the dead, and there's people that die. So, I mean, you know, i'm i'm always in favor of using the broadest possible definition to define horror, because too many people want to tell you that horror things...
00:03:57.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
There are people that say Jaws isn't a horror movie.
00:03:59.69
mothshade
Uh, yeah. Well, a few years later, sorry, a few years later, i actually got to see um the original um TV version of Salem's Lot, and that was that was a revelation.
00:04:01.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, well...
00:04:13.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mmm.
00:04:16.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep, that's a favorite around here for sure.
00:04:19.61
mothshade
That messed me up.
00:04:22.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, there's there's a generation of kids scarred by the little vampire boy scratching at the window on the second floor.
00:04:28.55
mothshade
Oh, Oh. a Even now I shudder. And I have a window right here next to me on the left. And it's, um, I have the blind closed.
00:04:36.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
Don't look at it! Don't look it into its eyes!
00:04:39.03
mothshade
I have the blind closed and it's intentionally. I don't need...
00:04:42.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:04:43.61
mothshade
Yeah.
00:04:44.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
Best thing for you, really. So just to cover this quickly, um you live with a stutter. And ah I was actually pretty nervous to um to have you on, not because you're you, because I already know you're great from the internet, but that that I would do something and and ah like that you know I was hypersensitive about making sure that I'm carrying myself properly and that I don't like, well, because I interrupt people.
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mothshade
Yeah.
00:05:01.66
mothshade
ah
00:05:15.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's a thing that I do. And I am told that that is particularly irksome to people with a stutter. Not to mention that, like, I invited you here because I want to hear what you have to say.
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mothshade
It's...
00:05:28.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I do have a tendency to talk over people.
00:05:32.25
mothshade
Well, as long as you're okay with it and everybody out there listening is okay with it, I have heard and had experiences, you know, honestly, every which way. And I have learned ah ways of um um coping, know, and choosing my words carefully like Porky Pig does, you know, choosing the easy words. i think that's one reason why I'm a writer because had a vocabulary from hell because you know I needed to choose you know words
00:06:08.70
mothshade
words in conversation that I could say that meant what i wanted to say. And um and the only reason I have this you know issue is when I was three, I got hit by a car.
00:06:16.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh.
00:06:24.54
mothshade
And ever since then, I have the stutter and... um
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mothshade
i it's that I mean, it's not anything I can help. It's really just you know something i can concentrate hard and control and slow down my speech and create a little rhythm in my speech. And it's okay.
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mothshade
Excuse me. It's okay if If anybody interrupts me, I interrupt people all the time because I am trying to get the word out.
00:06:55.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
Bye.
00:06:56.50
mothshade
And I will say, and this is and this is and this is crucial, I will say that the only individual in the world I have a problem with involving my, um um um
00:07:11.67
mothshade
excuse me, speech impediment is whoever coined stutter as a word. as a description of you know the issue that I have, because if you have a stutter, it is the hardest word in the English language to say.
00:07:28.31
mothshade
And I'd imagine and i'd imagine that it is also the person who coined the word lisp.
00:07:29.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
Damn!
00:07:34.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah Man.
00:07:35.77
mothshade
And whoever that is, i would like a couple of minutes alone with him in a room to kick him hard in the crotch just once, just one time.
00:07:42.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
That makes so much sense. Oh my god. Well, and like so many issues with disabilities that I do not have, that never occurred to me. You know what? I'm sorry. I just called the stutter a disability, and I don't know if that's factually accurate.
00:07:57.40
mothshade
Well, actually, according to the ADA, it is.
00:07:57.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
Do you consider it a disability? Okay. Okay.
00:08:00.76
mothshade
So yeah, it is a disability according to the ADA.
00:08:04.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
So um it it seems like a lot of things that that come with being neurodivergent, there is no fix. There's not a cure.
00:08:15.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
There are simply coping mechanisms. And even within coping mechanisms, the same ones don't work for everybody.
00:08:17.73
mothshade
Yeah.
00:08:21.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
Is that accurate?
00:08:23.32
mothshade
I would say it's accurate in my experience and also the coping mechanisms, I mean, yeah, they might you know work for a little while or work in particular situations, but I haven't found that any are really reliable or 100% or um
00:08:45.72
mothshade
or easy
00:08:48.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
I bet. I mean, I learned a little about stuttering, I guess we all did, because of Joe Biden. um
00:08:54.58
mothshade
yeah
00:08:55.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I don't think, like, I've never noticed a stutter. I didn't know that he had one until, actually, i think the phrase he uses is that he overcame a stutter. Like, it was a childhood thing and he sort of grew out of it.
00:09:06.52
mothshade
Yeah.
00:09:09.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
But clearly that's not universal.
00:09:12.38
mothshade
And I learned about it actually because of James Earl Jones.
00:09:15.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh. I was not aware of that.
00:09:17.27
mothshade
He had a really awful impediment as a child and he actually went years with hardly umed talking at all. And the reason why he speaks you know as well as he does and with the inflection he does and is because he learned um coping mechanisms.
00:09:38.01
mothshade
and And later on, he made a career out of his voice and not of speaking, and I have huge admiration for him, but um honestly, he was actually the first person who I was really aware of you know who had it and who overcame it or he used it you know well, I guess.
00:09:56.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
wow that's amazing i i had no idea course you're probably gonna know much different nerd nerd knowledge than i have because i'm a horror person whereas you're like a gamer you're more into like the sci-fi and and fantasy stuff um i'm not ah a gamer of any sort when i get the big rocket in tetris i feel like a champion um
00:10:01.41
mothshade
Yep.
00:10:20.60
mothshade
Well, I'm not an online gamer. I'm not a um computer gamer anymore. I was in the 80s and ninety s However, now it's all it's really all tabletop gaming, Dungeons and Dragons and that kind of thing. And actually, i just want to clarify one little thing, you know, real quick, if it's OK.
00:10:36.57
mothshade
When I say I'm not a horror person, um yeah i mean i read horror and i watch horror um in certain genres of horror um and actually i mean lovecraft um um i like brian lumley
00:10:56.79
mothshade
like mr james i like um ghost stories and that kind of thing i enjoy um um um classic um gothic horror tales you know frankenstein uh
00:11:10.38
mothshade
Dracula, Jekyll, that kind of thing. I liked Anne Rice a lot in the 80s and It's like, I like...
00:11:18.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and and it is not my point to say, oh no, you hate horror. But I think that
00:11:23.86
mothshade
No, no, no. I mean, it's not even that I don't have any, you know, it's not... I mean, it isn't like I don't even have any exposure to horror or any interest in horror. It's it's just I'm really particular with it and and i And it isn't my main thing. I'm even writing a little bit of horror or trying to, and I want to you know learn how to write horror a little bit better. and
00:11:49.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's interesting because that's how I feel about sci-fi and fantasy. Like, I've seen plenty of it. I've seen all the the big stuff and, you know, the little things that people say are good.
00:11:57.18
mothshade
oh sure.
00:12:00.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
But that's it's not the thing that I'm most passionate about. But, you know, movies and and literature, like music, any genre can be enjoyable if it's done well.
00:12:04.88
mothshade
Right.
00:12:10.60
mothshade
Absolutely.
00:12:11.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
There are country music songs that I cannot wait to sing along with. Even though if you said, hey, Wedness, are you a country music person? I would say fuck no. um
00:12:21.56
mothshade
I think you and I have a lot in common in that respect. I mean, a lot of the older, you know, the older country music I grew up with is okay. And a lot of, you know, what's out now, I just can't. So, yeah.
00:12:32.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes. um Well, and I know that we discussed horror when my second collection came, or was it my first collection? It was one of my collections, and I had asked you to read it, and you were like, well, you know, i'm not really a horror person.
00:12:46.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
Plus, there's...
00:12:46.35
mothshade
I really enjoyed that, though.
00:12:48.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, thank you. it's And it's also...
00:12:51.67
mothshade
write the kind of horror that I like.
00:12:54.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah thanks.
00:12:56.15
mothshade
ah um
00:12:56.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
Um...
00:12:57.59
mothshade
Psychological horror and character-driven horror and you know, spooky rather than just gory,
00:13:08.82
mothshade
um boooky rather than just gory you know, for the sake of you know shock or something.
00:13:20.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, that, well, and I was so, so, like, complimented because, you know, I realized that it's an imposition.
00:13:20.99
mothshade
It's what I really prefer.
00:13:30.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
This is something that that book people do way too much, is to ask their friends to read and review their books, which can put people in a very awkward position. Because if I enjoy someone a lot, personally, i don't want to have to say I think their book sucks.
00:13:46.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I'm not always tactful enough to... find complimentary things to say that don't sound like I'm digging for complimentary things to say.
00:13:57.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
If I tell you that your book layout is wonderful and I love the font choices, I'm reaching. I'm telling you, I do not like your prose.
00:14:07.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
So...
00:14:07.57
mothshade
well i was honestly it's like at the time when you asked me i was honestly thrilled um because i had enjoyed everything it's like i don't know how we became online friends i really don't ah i've always enjoyed you know reading your posts and observations and comments and um
00:14:30.65
mothshade
I enjoy your wit and I enjoy your views. So, I mean, it like when you offered, it's like, okay, I get to read your stuff and I get to read it for free and own a copy.
00:14:44.66
mothshade
i was like i was like, giddy up. Yeah.
00:14:49.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, that's awesome. I love hearing that. i definitely...
00:14:54.26
mothshade
It's all true. It's all true. The layout and font were nice too, but it's all true.
00:14:56.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah Well, I have to say, I did not do the layout.
00:15:02.68
mothshade
I know H probably did, didn't he?
00:15:03.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
a Actually, no. um I don't know if you know...
00:15:05.79
mothshade
Oh, he didn't?
00:15:06.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, um H did my... He does my covers.
00:15:10.01
mothshade
Okay.
00:15:10.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
But the inside layout for my long-form stuff... is done by a guy named Cody Boye. B-O-Y-E. And he can be found on Facebook.
00:15:16.82
mothshade
Oh, I didn't know that.
00:15:18.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
He does excellent work.
00:15:19.80
mothshade
Yeah, he does. It was nice.
00:15:20.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
i Yeah, I can't say enough good things about him. And he gives me a great rate, too.
00:15:26.35
mothshade
Oh, that's awesome.
00:15:26.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
you you should Anyone else should should expect to pay him a lot.
00:15:30.78
mothshade
Oh, man.
00:15:31.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
Much money for him. He deserves it. um
00:15:33.75
mothshade
Oh, man.
00:15:34.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
I know, right?
00:15:36.79
mothshade
Yeah.
00:15:36.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
so But getting getting into to role-playing games, though...
00:15:37.07
mothshade
well
00:15:40.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
00:15:40.62
mothshade
Mm-hmm.
00:15:41.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
I understand that you guys are fighting off an AI intrusion right now.
00:15:45.98
mothshade
Oh, gosh.
00:15:47.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
What do you have to say about that?
00:15:47.74
mothshade
Yeah, well, listen, everybody, um
00:15:50.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
A lot, a lot of us are. Yeah.
00:15:53.30
mothshade
yeah like many of my industry peers, I am strong. yeah of my industry peers i am so strongly against um the idea of AI modeling or the use of AI imagery or content in published work.
00:16:14.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:16:14.65
mothshade
um However, the area the area of RPGs, role-playing games, um the
00:16:28.34
mothshade
The area I deal with, um we usually write and create our own stuff. um it's It's a little insular and it's um um usually low tech.
00:16:46.62
mothshade
And AI is not really an issue, basically. really as much. um i mean, as an example, I write and draw all my own stuff.
00:16:59.80
mothshade
So even though AI would be cheaper and easier, i don't feel a need really to use it. I pay myself, you know, so.
00:17:10.14
mothshade
um
00:17:13.72
mothshade
And I have no problem on the rare occasions where I have the means, I have no problem paying an artist or writer to do something for me because, well, I know from personal experience, how valuable that is.
00:17:25.13
mothshade
And I think really as an industry, we are kind of all on the same side with AI.
00:17:25.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:17:32.51
mothshade
um There's a few individuals who are not really, are not really in our, I guess our circle, who don't care really one way or another, and that's fine. and They can do what they want. However, I really believe as a whole, we're all kind of,
00:17:57.01
mothshade
I'm united against AI and the idea of AI, you know, um excuse me, the idea of AI taking over the creative process.
00:18:13.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
I think that's definitely true to a point. I think any creator that I am friends with online, they're they're all against generative ai um But I will say, i know a lot of writers who don't see a problem with using an AI-generated cover because they wrote the book themselves.
00:18:35.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
And as someone who also lives with a guy who designs but ah book covers for money, um it's not... I mean, and and I kind of understand it because as a writer, i feel like writing is a skill that anyone should be able to have because we can all talk, we can all think, and that's all writing is. It's writing it down. But I'm probably selling writing short.
00:19:00.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then if I, because there are artists that say, oh, anybody can draw, anybody can make a stick figure. yeah, my stick figures look like crap. I tried to make a comic and I can't. You know, artistic talent simply evades me. So the question becomes, does that give me the right to just have visual, I mean, I don't want to call it art, but to have visual content that I did not produce?
00:19:27.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, does the existence of AI give me the right to do that when I know that what it's going to be producing was stolen from human artists.
00:19:39.16
mothshade
And that's actually the main issue, I guess, we all have in this industry that that I mean, it is it is all theft. And it is... um And actually, a lot of us also don't really...
00:19:49.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:19:52.26
mothshade
i mean, we're not really all that impressed with the quality of the you know output. And I mean, honestly, a lot of AI art really just looks you know the same and looks like crap you know to people who you know who are looking for a certain you know flavor you know or style.
00:20:09.46
mothshade
um and And honestly, the writing I've seen with AI is...
00:20:17.82
mothshade
um I mean, yes, I'm of the opinion that anybody can write and anybody can draw and anybody can sing. It's just whether or not you're able to do it well and consistently is really what's important, at least in my mind.
00:20:33.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm. Yes.
00:20:34.42
mothshade
um
00:20:34.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
yes
00:20:35.48
mothshade
And
00:20:39.22
mothshade
and honestly, I've been able to draw you know all my life and I've been able to write all my life. I've never had a problem. It's all been natural to me. um So I probably don't have an appreciation really that I should for you know either one.
00:20:56.31
mothshade
um
00:20:59.54
mothshade
It isn't like I've taken classes. I've just drawn a lot and written a lot and I read a lot. And um and AI is is being used and everything now from, you know,
00:21:14.91
mothshade
of writing and drawing and making music now. And I, and I used to do that too, ah you know, a little bit. And, um, and honestly, it's really all about, it's really, it's really, it's really all the audience now.
00:21:28.22
mothshade
Um, I mean, the audience is okay with, you know, um substandard, um, you know, um i don't want to use the word crap.
00:21:41.05
mothshade
However, it's it's really all I've got right now. um And actually, you can look at
00:21:46.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, it's it's a ah product. It isn't art because it lacks passion. It lacks drive and desire and the things that, I mean, when you make a piece of art, you make it because you have something to say and you found the medium with which you want to say it.
00:22:02.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
So you use the the skill and talent and experience and all of the previous knowledge that you've taken in and apply it there and then you create something which then becomes art.
00:22:16.25
mothshade
Yeah, but in general, the people who are actually paying for it, they don't care.
00:22:16.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
Type two.
00:22:21.26
mothshade
And we live in a capitalistic society, so it's really only about the value of your work, right?
00:22:32.70
mothshade
really in the market. So that's where we are. And that's why the industry that I'm in where we call ourselves old school gamers, um and we use rule sets from years ago in the original, in the original, in the original, in the original, in the original early days of
00:22:58.86
mothshade
role playing as a hobby, Whereas you have editions that come out you know you know every few years or so, and and right now Dungeons & Dragons is up to edition number five or six, and we're using edition half or one, or one and a half in our creations.
00:23:17.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. pray
00:23:19.70
mothshade
and And actually, in recent years, we've had a few, we've had a We've had kerfuffles with you know the industry um the industry leaders, you know the huge companies who are releasing rule books and materials with AI-generated art or AI-edited art or writing, and and a lot of us are boycotting it.
00:23:52.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
Uh-huh. I mean, that's that's what I would do. i would That's what I think should happen. Although, honestly, I'm torn about editing. um I think for copy editing, ah line editing, you know, that's...
00:24:08.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
I think I'm okay with that. Like, I use Grammarly and I use Spellcheck. You know, I've used Drag and Dictate.
00:24:14.90
mothshade
this case, it goes with cover art.
00:24:17.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
um but But no, for for cover art... I mean, i guess I don't know enough about the mechanics of how, I mean, it it I actually needed some convincing to understand that graphic art is art.
00:24:30.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
That if you used a computer to make it, it's still art because the computer is a tool. And that's what people say about AI, that it's always a tool.
00:24:38.71
mothshade
Well, if you watch a person create that art, you'll probably you'll probably understand if you actually
00:24:49.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, that that is
00:24:50.71
mothshade
Try watching a video of a person creating art using a computer and you'll understand.
00:24:54.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, you know, i'm i married a guy who did that.
00:24:56.31
mothshade
You're
00:24:58.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
So yeah, exactly. once Once you see it happen, it's like, oh, okay. So that was very involved. It's just different than a pen.
00:25:07.25
mothshade
just using different tools. Yeah.
00:25:09.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
So would you say that the world of RPGs is competitive like between creators? Are you guys trying to outdo each other?
00:25:18.30
mothshade
um it is It is at a certain level. um i mean, there's only a few truly large RPG companies, um you know just like everything else in our country. um
00:25:30.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Thank you.
00:25:30.97
mothshade
um And there's a lot of us who are creating work you know on our own independently. And honestly, it's wonderful it's a wonderful community. um Creators and publishers in the RPG
00:25:49.11
mothshade
it in the RPG industry
00:25:53.02
mothshade
really overall are supportive of one another. um And you know
00:26:04.66
mothshade
ah they um um publicize each other's work, you know word of mouth, you know, tell, it's like, this guy's great, you know you would love his stuff. If you like my stuff, you'll love this guy's stuff and da-da-da-da.
00:26:16.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
cool
00:26:16.50
mothshade
And it's just, it's...
00:26:16.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
cool
00:26:19.42
mothshade
um Honestly, the only reason why I even ah got into this at all is be because...
00:26:29.34
mothshade
oh don't like saying this. I want to emphasize, really, this is this is only my own experience. um I was writing fiction pretty exclusively for a while, and i've reached I reached a point where...
00:26:50.49
mothshade
where I was uncomfortable with the editors. The editors and publishers um were just... um What's the word I want to use?
00:27:02.73
mothshade
There's a lot of um gatekeeping and a lot of elitism, um which I didn't really enjoy.
00:27:08.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mmm. Sure.
00:27:13.36
mothshade
And it's also a lot of... it ended up being a lot of who you know
00:27:20.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's too bad.
00:27:20.66
mothshade
rather and the quality of um um quality of your work. So I kind of slid over a little bit and and i was writing RPG material and it was just really relaxing and comfortable and I was happier and um you know, it's not like I've given up on um um publishing fiction and writing fiction. It's just that I kind of quit really with the process a lot of um trying to get published in
00:28:06.78
mothshade
motion publishing decent markets in fiction, I guess. And and I concentrated the RPG more.
00:28:18.23
mothshade
And rpg stuff
00:28:21.11
mothshade
And I've been able to create a lot in RPG. And i and um I've actually made a little bit of money. And um and i have a I have a really good reputation in the RPG industry, which really shocked me.
00:28:28.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sweet.
00:28:35.03
mothshade
And um everybody is really helpful and supportive.
00:28:36.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
00:28:39.18
mothshade
And I can't recommend it enough.
00:28:43.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, it's interesting because when the people that I know that do RPGs or that meet for, you know, even online gaming, um it reminds me of the way that people used to talk about church.
00:28:57.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
Not church, like the religious aspects of it, but we're going to meet up once a week and do this thing that we like to do and it makes us happy and our friends are there. And then, you know, in between times that we meet up, we're a source of community and support.
00:29:14.23
mothshade
Yes. um Actually, i I can confirm. It is pretty much exactly like that.
00:29:21.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's what church is supposed to be, but, you know, it's a crapshoot if you're not an Episcopalian.
00:29:26.49
mothshade
I know.
00:29:27.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, I know that you have...
00:29:27.62
mothshade
I have I am very well aware I've had lots of...
00:29:32.89
mothshade
i was i was raised in an Irish um Catholic family, which is why i am currently not Irish Catholic today.
00:29:41.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
ha so i know that you have ah self-published some Dungeons and Dragons stuff. And I didn't realize that was a thing.
00:29:49.14
mothshade
Yes.
00:29:51.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
it's that That's like free IP. You're just allowed to to do that and make money from it. is that how How does that work?
00:29:59.35
mothshade
Actually, um around... so
00:30:05.21
mothshade
Right around the year... Right around 2000, the owners of Dungeons & Dragons at the time, they released an open game license which allowed...
00:30:21.85
mothshade
um they release an open game license which allowed which allowed anybody to use,
00:30:34.71
mothshade
use published, um wow, these are be published, the Hunters and Dragons rules and a lot of the IP um in and any product you wanted to publish. As long as you didn't use ah certain trademarked items. And as long as you referenced the original rule books as, you know, you need this, you know, to play this, um you could publish pretty much whatever you wanted as long as you included open game,
00:31:17.59
mothshade
the open game
00:31:21.59
mothshade
you'll be the open game license in your books.
00:31:28.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:31:29.37
mothshade
And everything just kind of exploded at that point.
00:31:32.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
I would think so, my goodness. Because, yeah, I know once an author gives permission for fanfic, there's fanfic.
00:31:41.61
mothshade
Mm-hmm.
00:31:42.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now, one of the problems with that is that some of the content is, ah let's just say, not appropriate for younger audiences. Does that I mean, because I'm guessing that was immediate because in fanfic, even if you have YA fiction, it's immediately like Hogwarts professors, Bonin students and stuff. That's just like, no, stop it. Why is now it is this? Does that underground? does Does that exist in the RPG community as well?
00:32:13.78
mothshade
Oh yeah, there's a couple of people who are infamous for it. um And I think they put warning labels really on their books. However, there's no requirement under the open license, um as I'm aware, to do so.
00:32:28.79
mothshade
It's it's really just in really just publishing overall. There's a couple of people who, yeah, um they go... um i guess really the way I would describe it is...
00:32:42.71
mothshade
when I was in high school, um we played, well, not all of us, however, we were inclined to play kind of rough games with a lot of, you know, just random killing and, you know, occasional, occasional, occasional sex, you know, for no reason whatsoever.
00:33:06.84
mothshade
and um I just honestly believe, and I'm sure i ah catch hell for this eventually. Though it's not like I'm particularly um shy about this online or anything. I think a few people just never outgrew that and a couple of them are publishing it now.
00:33:30.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
Ha!
00:33:33.11
mothshade
And I'm not impressed with it. However, it has an audience and it is incredibly popular. um really within that audience and I can't argue the success of it. It's just not anything that I'm um really impressed with or interested in. And that's about all I can say about it.
00:33:55.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, adults who never grow up are causing a whole lot of bullshit right now. So it it does not surprise me.
00:34:02.10
mothshade
Oh, Maga! Excuse me. Oh, I'm so sorry. Oh.
00:34:05.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:34:06.87
mothshade
oh
00:34:06.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, that's the thing. i mean, imagine being proud of being or supporting a friggin playground bully, you know, like
00:34:15.00
mothshade
And I have quite a few friends um who I had in high school who i reconnected with you know out of high school you know years later, and I realized they never grew up from high school.
00:34:29.08
mothshade
They peaked in high school and they never grew up. And i was like, okay, well, have a nice life. I'm not – I don't –
00:34:36.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, yeah, yeah. When you ask somebody what they're up to now and they want to reminisce about something that happened under the bleachers at a football game, I mean, yeah, we all smoke pot out of a Coke can. Move on. um So, yeah.
00:34:48.06
mothshade
Yeah, well... Nice.
00:34:48.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it's weird because, like, for me, I went to two different high schools and one of them was for in a much wealthier community. As far as Detroit suburbs go, I started in Hazel Park and I ended up at Royal Oak Kimball.
00:35:03.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
So now ah most of my friends from Kimball, pretty liberal, you know, not all, ah not all of them, but for the most part, my classmates were quite liberal.
00:35:03.96
mothshade
nice
00:35:15.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
Whereas the people from the poor high school where the military recruiters would come for weeks instead of days,
00:35:18.18
mothshade
Oh, yeah.
00:35:23.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
many, many, many more MAGA supporters. Like, liberals from that high school are in the far minority. And it it's so counterintuitive that the people who need infrastructure the most are the most resistive to it. And it's that whole thing with the Southern strategy being expanded to include liberals.
00:35:48.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
And the whole, like... You know, anything is better than letting a liberal pwn you. And it's like, we're not trying to pwn you. We're trying to give you health care.
00:35:56.54
mothshade
Yeah, and I'm kind of struggling with that as well. I mean, if you see any, you know, any of the posts that I have online through my Facebook page, for example, I'm not exactly hiding the fact
00:36:13.11
mothshade
that I'm having issues with, you know, and I'm not, I'm not a Democrat. I'm not anything. I'm actually independent. um However, um the right has kind of forced me left.
00:36:34.90
mothshade
um And as it gets more and more extreme, i you know, I get more and more protective of the people who I care about. And that's, they are.
00:36:47.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, because they're increasingly endangered.
00:36:51.35
mothshade
And, you know, I mean, If anybody takes over and there's an uprising or something, It's like, honestly, even though... Even though I'm an older white male, I you know ah genuinely believe some crazy right-wing bastard will put a bullet in my head without thinking about it.
00:37:15.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:37:15.54
mothshade
But nobody on the left will.
00:37:18.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, you know, the left has been super irritated with Marjorie Trader Green for some... Taylor Green for some time now. You know, we' we've always despised her. Her first glimpse of, of like, public notice was her harassing... Oh, goddammit, that's my door. I'm not getting it. um Was her harassing a school shooting survivor.
00:37:41.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, you know, i we have no love for that woman.
00:37:41.82
mothshade
Yeah.
00:37:44.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
But... She hasn't needed private security following her everywhere until people on the right started hating her. Because those are the people that show up and hit you with their bang bang.
00:37:52.06
mothshade
That's correct.
00:37:56.21
mothshade
Right.
00:37:56.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that's gotta to be Amazon. I'm not even... Can you hear that? Can you hear my door buzzer?
00:38:01.05
mothshade
I can hear it. If you want to go get it real quick, I'm fine.
00:38:02.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. Nah, they can fuck off. um Well, and it's funny too, because I...
00:38:05.02
mothshade
Okay.
00:38:08.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I mean, I'll go get it later, but... Yeah, anyway. I think it's the dog food I ordered, because I...
00:38:12.78
mothshade
don't if you have a problem with using packages on your doorstep or anything, so I don't want to make leave
00:38:15.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
i Oh, no, it's all good. um Yeah, somebody somebody let them in, so they're leaving it in.
00:38:18.30
mothshade
Okay.
00:38:21.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I ordered a thing of dog food because I was going to go pick up a puppy tomorrow. And then after, well, I talked to my friend about it who is like a, you know, a kennel club kind of breeder person.
00:38:24.98
mothshade
I know, that's exciting!
00:38:32.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
And she was like, yeah, what you're describing sounds like a backyard breeder. You should not get that dog.
00:38:38.55
mothshade
Oh no!
00:38:39.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I was bummed. They were so cute. And that's that's a backyard breeder thing. And they said, like, 10 to 1, if I show up, those dogs in the pictures would not be available, and they would try to show me other dogs.
00:38:51.51
mothshade
Oh, God.
00:38:52.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
And they're people that insist on cash payments. So you have no recourse if you get, like, I don't know what a defective dog would be, but I'm sure there are some.
00:38:56.21
mothshade
Right.
00:39:02.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because, you know...
00:39:03.32
mothshade
Yeah.
00:39:04.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I mean, I guess a dog, a puppy that hasn't been vetted for health, you know?
00:39:04.18
mothshade
home
00:39:08.34
mothshade
Yeah.
00:39:09.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because she the lady I was talking to showed me a um She sent me a photo of the veterinary thing that was supposed to prove that they had had their shots.
00:39:18.90
mothshade
Yeah.
00:39:19.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it didn't have the little stickers on it. It was just handwritten. And when you take an animal in to get shots, like I knew that because I'm not a dog person.
00:39:22.87
mothshade
Oh, shit.
00:39:27.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
I've never had my own dog before, but I had cats. So with cats, okay, so you know that you take them in to get shots.
00:39:30.71
mothshade
Yeah, I've got six.
00:39:33.69
mothshade
I do.
00:39:34.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
They pull the little sticker off the vial and they put it there on the paper as proof that you vaccinated.
00:39:38.14
mothshade
Thank you. That does not sound legit at all. I am so sorry.
00:39:45.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, it sucks. But, you know, it it occurred to me, i've I've said this online, that, like, November is a very stupid time to be looking for a puppy because you're competing with everybody who wants one for Christmas.
00:39:58.07
mothshade
Oh, yeah, I guess so.
00:39:59.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that chances are in March I would have much better luck when people are surrendering their puppies because they realize that, like, when I was a kid, there was a Christmas
00:40:06.14
mothshade
Oh, God.
00:40:10.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
where everybody got Dalmatians because of a Disney thing that happened.
00:40:15.36
mothshade
Uh-huh.
00:40:15.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like all these people were getting Dalmatians.
00:40:17.50
mothshade
I remember.
00:40:18.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
And when Harry Potter came out, kids wanted owls.
00:40:21.30
mothshade
shit on time.
00:40:21.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
Parents were legit buying their children an owl. Like, what is the matter with you?
00:40:25.60
mothshade
Wait.
00:40:26.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
That is a living thing.
00:40:28.53
mothshade
Okay, didn't know people were actually...
00:40:28.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean,
00:40:31.96
mothshade
i didn't... Okay, I didn't realize that people actually got owls. I know people wanted them.
00:40:35.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:40:36.16
mothshade
I didn't know they actually received them. Where the hell do you go buy an owl?
00:40:40.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
I really could not say. i mean, i remember finding out at one point that technically all the animals in the zoo were for sale, but I i don't know anybody wealthy enough to be engaging in that.
00:40:50.46
mothshade
Oh, my God. Yeah, I mean, I'd love an owl. I think owls are great, but...
00:40:56.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I don't know if an owl would love living with us, is the thing about that.
00:40:59.29
mothshade
No. Yeah, well, I care about, you know, the animals.
00:41:06.17
mothshade
You know, has as living creatures, not as, you know, ah possessions.
00:41:06.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Exactly.
00:41:09.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:41:10.44
mothshade
So, yeah, I would never i would never have an owl, even though even though I would so i want one. I love owls.
00:41:19.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, and well, there's so many animals that I wish they could like shrink tiny so we could like have them as pets. But ah did you read the novel Jurassic Park?
00:41:27.06
mothshade
Well, there's animals.
00:41:28.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because in the novel Jurassic Park, there's a tiny elephant.
00:41:32.66
mothshade
Oh, no, I haven't read. but The animals I want are already, you know, nice and small and cuddly. I mean, I want a red panda so bad I could, you know just, you know, explode.
00:41:40.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Ah, ha, ha. Ha, ha, ha.
00:41:43.29
mothshade
But one I've heard or read, not that I've researched it because I've been planning on having one, but I was reading that they are horrible pets, probably worse really than raccoons. And, you know, and also where am I going to get a red panda anyway?
00:42:02.24
mothshade
Yeah.
00:42:03.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I'm sure they're costly and not going to be legal in every state.
00:42:08.18
mothshade
you know I live in West Virginia where you can have whatever the hell you want, really.
00:42:08.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
00:42:13.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, that's a thing.
00:42:13.48
mothshade
Or
00:42:14.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, I found out that there are more tigers in captivity in the United States than there are on, like, some continents where they are wild.
00:42:20.66
mothshade
are in the world. Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:24.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
And all I can say to that is, stop it.
00:42:28.25
mothshade
USA. USA. USA.
00:42:30.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Everyone who is in possession of a tiger in America that's not a zoo or a refuge, stop it. Well, we had that guy in Ohio. that had an animal, I don't even know if you'd call it a refuge, he just had a whole bunch of animals.
00:42:44.25
mothshade
Yeah, he had... Yeah.
00:42:46.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
And he decided to self-unalive and release all of his animals, so there's people driving down I-75 like, uh, yeah, there's, hi, 911, there's an African male lion in the road, I, no, I'm not drunk, there's a lion in the road.
00:42:47.58
mothshade
Not a rep.
00:43:04.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that
00:43:04.28
mothshade
Yeah, know this is America. I'd believe any animal anywhere at this point, honestly.
00:43:06.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, hi. Yes. I mean, I...
00:43:07.92
mothshade
This is America for fuck's sake. I mean, nobody tells us
00:43:11.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
like hi
00:43:12.86
mothshade
no Nobody tells us we can't have something or just, you know, you can go in, you can go to Walmart and people will have, you know, all kinds of crazy animals that shouldn't be in a grocery store or whatever right there with them.
00:43:19.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
yes
00:43:27.81
mothshade
And they get,
00:43:33.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
i mean
00:43:35.06
mothshade
you react, you react, you react at all.
00:43:35.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
i
00:43:38.09
mothshade
Or you look at them funny and they're, they get all pissed off. It's like, yeah, I've got my, um um Can my Rottweiler with me?
00:43:48.23
mothshade
So what? He crapped on the floor over there in the aisle. So what?
00:43:51.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah Gross.
00:43:52.84
mothshade
What's your problem? Like, what? Yeah, mean, it's just America.
00:43:55.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:43:56.75
mothshade
We do what we want. Screw it.
00:44:00.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, and I'll sue you if you don't let me. Don't you oppress me by making me obey laws. um
00:44:06.14
mothshade
I know we love lawsuits. Oh my gosh, we love lawsuits. Money, money, money. Yummy.
00:44:12.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
So...
00:44:12.95
mothshade
Yummy. Anyway, we've gotten a little bit off.
00:44:15.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now i A little, just a little.
00:44:16.47
mothshade
Sorry.
00:44:18.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now I'm actually aware... That you live with chronic anxiety. And I don't know if quote unquote chronic anxiety is in itself a diagnosis.
00:44:29.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
Or if we're just talking about anxiety that you have a lot. Like in a colloquial way. Please.
00:44:35.33
mothshade
Okay. Well, I can address that pretty easily.
00:44:39.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
please
00:44:40.09
mothshade
Okay, I've had chronic anxiety and I've had depression all my life, and I was not aware of it. um really up until about maybe 15 years ago when I actually went you know to the doctor because i was...
00:45:00.02
mothshade
It's like earlier you asked about coping mechanisms. and um And I've been coping all my life without really realizing it. And I i reached a point where I could not cope anymore and had...
00:45:13.81
mothshade
I guess because she would um call it a breakdown. And I end up at the doctor.
00:45:17.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:45:18.55
mothshade
And um um and i was at and I was actually diagnosed officially with chronic anxiety and depression and put on medication. and And here I am.
00:45:35.70
mothshade
So it's um it's real, i guess. And I've had it all my life, apparently, because and They asked me a bunch of questions and um they asked me if I've ever been happy or if I've always had... What's the earliest, you know, I've had this happen or this feeling and it was always.
00:45:59.61
mothshade
So I don't...
00:45:59.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
Have you ever been happy is a rather stunning question to be asked.
00:46:06.90
mothshade
Well, um okay, they asked me... mean, was actually... If I remember correctly, it was actually the doctor's opening question.
00:46:18.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:46:19.32
mothshade
And I broke down and cried. I couldn't even answer.
00:46:22.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh.
00:46:23.70
mothshade
So it was at that point that they realized maybe maybe he's got chronic anxiety and depression because he can't even answer the question. He broke down and cried.
00:46:35.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, so so chronic anxiety is the diagnosis.
00:46:36.60
mothshade
Yeah.
00:46:40.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
That is...
00:46:40.28
mothshade
It is the diagnosis. I've got it in writing.
00:46:42.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah that um and And so the medication, um what is that meant to be tackling? Does it make you less anxious or less depressed?
00:46:55.22
mothshade
Okay, um well, I've actually gone through a few medications. um
00:47:00.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I know that's right.
00:47:00.98
mothshade
Apparently... I learned um really early on with the medication that, one, i have a very strong resistance or adaptation adaptation um um um to a lot of medications.
00:47:27.06
mothshade
So they don't work on me or they only work on me for a little while and I metabolize them to the point where it doesn't do anything anymore and I have to get higher doses and higher doses and after a while it's just not worth it because of the terrible side effects.
00:47:36.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh. Sure.
00:47:40.98
mothshade
So eventually i was able to get a cocktail of medication that
00:47:41.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
sure
00:47:45.62
mothshade
um takes
00:47:51.61
mothshade
um the edge off and helps me me focus and concentrate on um
00:48:04.71
mothshade
on the issues I'm having or whatever I'm but if i'm in the middle of. um It's not like it cures you anything and it's not like it makes me happy or anything. It's just that it takes the intensity and lowers it some and it's easier to cope with and every once a while ignore um is really the easiest way I can describe it.
00:48:37.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. No, that makes a lot of sense to me. Because I take a mood stabilizer.
00:48:43.37
mothshade
Mm-hmm.
00:48:43.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
So it's really just... The intention is to not have the the dizzying highs and the catastrophic lows, but, you know, it's still it's still a challenge.
00:48:52.28
mothshade
Yeah, and I was worried at first. And I was worried at first because i um i was worried in the alteration of my brain chemistry.
00:49:03.70
mothshade
um I was worried that I would you know lose my um creativity.
00:49:04.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:49:09.11
mothshade
um I'd lose my genius. Yeah.
00:49:13.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:49:15.86
mothshade
And i can honestly say really at first, yeah, I kind of struggled with that um as I transitioned, um know, as I transitioned through the medications.
00:49:31.61
mothshade
um I had a lot of trouble with concentrating on, you know, my projects and coming up with ideas for my projects. However, once I adjusted and everything kind of leveled out,
00:49:46.26
mothshade
Um, you know, I was
00:49:51.13
mothshade
back in action. Um, however, the difference is that,
00:50:00.14
mothshade
um, really, really all my life when I've had ideas or concepts for anything, it's like, it's like they come in, it's almost like a, um,
00:50:14.70
mothshade
It's almost like a... It's almost like a... it's almost like a you Fireworks display. It's like I'll have an idea and it pops over here. and And almost immediately afterwards, it's like I'll have an idea that relates to that idea or comes off of that idea and it pops, pops, pops, pops over here. And it just explodes over here and here, here there, there, there. there there and I have to write them all down really quickly so I can, you know, read them later on and remember, you know, what I was actually thinking or I will lose a lot of it or it just, or after a while or after a while I'll have an idea and I'll think, eh, it wasn't a great idea in the first place. and i don't think anybody really, um, um, will really have an interest in that or, and then a year later I'll be out shopping and, you know,
00:51:09.82
mothshade
I'll be looking at RPG books or something and I will see a book that's like exactly the idea that I had. And this person decided, Hey, I had this good idea and I'm going to run with it.
00:51:17.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
00:51:19.14
mothshade
And I, and I didn't, and it's been published and people are actually purchasing it. And was like, Oh, damn it.
00:51:26.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
00:51:27.06
mothshade
And honestly, that happened enough that I now just write everything down and try and create, you know,
00:51:28.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:51:34.68
mothshade
and actually complete a project, which is the hardest thing in the world. um And it's, um and really the medication has helped me to work on a project all the way through, I guess, is really, really the main advantage.
00:51:55.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow, that's amazing.
00:51:57.20
mothshade
Yeah.
00:51:58.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right, now your your tale actually reminds me of something. This is kind of a secret. I don't talk about this much. um I was...
00:52:04.43
mothshade
It's okay, I won't tell anybody.
00:52:05.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nobody listens to this show. They'll never find out. um No, in the 90s, like the mid, maybe 94, 95-ish, when I first ah went no contact with my family, my boyfriend was an alcoholic.
00:52:22.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sarah Silver S.U.R.O.O.N.D. by guns, so I was thinking about guns all the time, and that was when I started writing my zombie novel which got didn't get finished and published until 2012. Sarah Silver PB, S.U.R.O.N.D.
00:52:33.69
mothshade
That makes sense.
00:52:35.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right so um so I had started writing this zombie novel, and it was my whole like I it at the time thought it would be my first novel it wasn't um my first novel was a NaNoWriMo called a stabbing for Sadie, but the the title.
00:52:47.41
mothshade
Mercedes, yep.
00:52:49.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Of my initial effort at a zombie novel was The Walking Dead.
00:52:58.07
mothshade
What a great title.
00:52:59.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
I know! Nobody better fucking steal it! um
00:53:02.49
mothshade
No. it's really simple. It's it's exactly to the point. It's like you read it, you know exactly what you're in for.
00:53:08.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep, yep.
00:53:10.62
mothshade
That's brilliant.
00:53:10.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and it was like a double entendre because like, not only were there zombies, but like the people themselves were like... You know, everything was was gone.
00:53:22.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
And in a way, that was a kind of death.
00:53:22.74
mothshade
Yeah.
00:53:24.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it was so metaphorical because I'm so goddamn smart. and
00:53:28.47
mothshade
I know.
00:53:29.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
And you know what?
00:53:30.26
mothshade
Genius.
00:53:30.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
I wouldn't let Greg Nicotero near my shit. oh I probably...
00:53:33.43
mothshade
yeah
00:53:34.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and it sucks too because I want to be i want one of my stories to be in the Creepshow TV series so bad. But if I...
00:53:42.48
mothshade
Oh, that would be awesome.
00:53:43.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right? But if I ever met Greg Nicotero, there's no way that some sort of bad comment about his treatment of Dale Horvath would just come flying out of my mouth. Like, no, no, because goddammit, if you are fighting a zombie, like you are in physical fisticuffs trying to keep a zombie off you, if you keep its choppers away from you, if it cannot bite you, you win.
00:54:09.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
And when they killed Dale, who is my, he, at the time he was my favorite character on the walking dead. And when they killed him, a zombie that couldn't even pull itself out of a mud puddle ripped out its guts with its, but with his like bony zombie fingers.
00:54:26.74
mothshade
Well, I will admit that I have never watched Walking Dead or or read the graphic novels, and I will say that that is one genre of horror that really...
00:54:39.38
mothshade
really hate. I hate this zombie horror. I mean, I watched it in the eighty s you know, the classic, you know, um ah Night of the Living Dead and that and
00:54:53.85
mothshade
I guess i guess i just haven't I guess I just have an issue of watching people eat people.
00:54:59.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I mean, that's that's fair.
00:54:59.26
mothshade
And
00:55:00.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
Not wanting to watch people get eaten alive is ah is a reasonable thing to say.
00:55:06.04
mothshade
And, you know, it's just, mean that I mean, that one thing i just have,
00:55:15.43
mothshade
just makes me not, it just makes me not enjoy everything else. And also...
00:55:21.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
I can absolutely understand where you're coming from. um Frank Darabont elevated the genre. That's what he does. He elevates genre. That's why the mist is a B movie and it'll blow your fricking mind and make you cry.
00:55:32.86
mothshade
right
00:55:34.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
And but in part the, uh,
00:55:36.06
mothshade
Right, and I've also been lost interest in genres because, i mean, they're overplayed in my opinion. i mean I mean, it's not, I mean, it's just zombies. who I honestly believe that there's way too much zombie stuff.
00:55:49.22
mothshade
It's also vampires, and ah believe Anne Rice, you know, I believe Anne Rice single-handedly elevated that genre in the eighty s and
00:56:00.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:56:01.27
mothshade
And that's the only reason why I was even interested in vampires in the 80s and ninety s because of Anne Rice. And you know now I'm like, I hate vampires. I'm just so tired of them. And um and i guess that's you know just um I guess that's really the reason why i create as often as I do and as largely as I do is because I'm just tired of everything around me.
00:56:29.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, it's easy to get bored when things become repetitive. I actually had an opportunity to ask ah the writer Jonathan Mayberry about whether or not he felt that the zombie subgenre was oversaturated.
00:56:42.85
mothshade
Oh.
00:56:43.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
and And when would it stop? Because, you know, he writes in that genre. He writes a lot of YA. I'm sure you're
00:56:48.32
mothshade
Right.
00:56:48.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
at least vaguely familiar with with Mr. Mayberry.
00:56:51.34
mothshade
I've heard of him, yeah.
00:56:52.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
and And what he had said very simply was people will stop writing about zombies when people run out of things to say about that. And because zombies are one of the most, um I guess, easily like like metaphorical, you you can say so many things about humanity and society through the zombie genre that I don't
00:57:12.82
mothshade
Yes. No.
00:57:18.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
know that we'll run out of, even if we run out of unique, fresh, topical things to say, we're not going to run out of people that want to say things. Because the hubris of a film director will will never die.
00:57:34.20
mothshade
no
00:57:34.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
We'll always have that. But I really do think that even though the the the first season of The Walking Dead is going to have people getting...
00:57:45.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
at I mean, that's that's definitely a thing that happens. um I would say that if you gave the first two episodes of viewing, you would find yourself impressed and you might find yourself wanting to overlook the the Undead Cannibals just to continue. i I rarely burst into tears watching zombie cinema, but The Walking Dead will will make you do that.
00:58:13.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
There's one family in particular that isn't the main family.
00:58:13.88
mothshade
And I'll have to and off to overlook all the mowed lawns as well.
00:58:16.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
um But yeah, when when you get to a kid called Daryl, prepare to have your heart broken.
00:58:28.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah Yeah, you you might. You might. You know, I haven't actually checked that.
00:58:30.63
mothshade
Okay.
00:58:32.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
But that that is a thing. um And it's interesting because when you watch a a lot of zombie movies, one of the first things you notice is there's a whole bunch of fires.
00:58:42.33
mothshade
Mm-hmm.
00:58:42.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that always seems so weird to me, but it's true because when people panic, you are going to have more fires. And when people are just suddenly fighting, you know, car accidents, whatever fires are going to be, it's kind of like when you go up in an airplane and your first, the first thing you think of is like, wow, a lot of people have pools, like, you know, and it,
00:58:49.56
mothshade
Yes.
00:59:04.66
mothshade
I will admit, living in my neighborhood that I live in, i will say, though, that I absolutely believe that in my neighborhood, my neighbors would actually be mowing their lawn in the middle of a zombie apocalypse.
00:59:16.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:59:16.89
mothshade
because These people are just lawn Nazis. I mean, they're out there all the time. i They were out there last week.
00:59:24.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, sure. I mean, the dead are rising from their graves, but that's no excuse for unkempt grass, now is it?
00:59:30.65
mothshade
These people love mowing their lawn. Oh my God. It's like a, it's like a, um it's like a fetish or something for these people.
00:59:40.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, if and if you've got an HOA, that could very well be required. Because, yeah.
00:59:46.26
mothshade
Yes, I do, but these people way above, way beyond.
00:59:46.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
They'll be showing up with pitchforks and fines.
00:59:50.30
mothshade
Okay. way above way beyond
00:59:55.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Okay, I want to definitely talk about your fiction because you are writing fiction. So let me ask you this, first of all, um as someone with anxiety, I'm guessing that You, like most writers, the fiction is a way to to work through that. But what I'm wondering is, do you find yourself apprehensive about submitting your writing because of the anxiety? And does that play into your process at all?
01:00:28.41
mothshade
Hmm. Okay.
01:00:32.28
mothshade
Okay, the answer for that is easy, and I have a feeling the answer is going to be kind of not what you usually hear, or at least not what I usually hear.
01:00:47.19
mothshade
um Okay. Anxiety for submitting my work. I don't have any anxiety whatsoever.
01:00:58.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Cool.
01:00:58.84
mothshade
I don't have any expectations and i don't have any issue with rejection. um It's just I am lazy as fuck. And i have a hard time researching places that would probably be interested in my manuscript.
01:01:19.32
mothshade
And then and here's here's here's really the problem I have. Writing a synopsis.
01:01:28.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh god, I hate putting the press packet together, man. Or the pitch packet.
01:01:31.48
mothshade
Right?
01:01:32.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
Hate it
01:01:34.08
mothshade
That's the only the only anxiety I have and the whole process of writing and publishing is writing my synopsis for my story.
01:01:45.37
mothshade
um
01:01:45.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because if I wanted to explain what happened in two paragraphs, I wouldn't have written a whole ass novel.
01:01:52.32
mothshade
Yeah. And I honestly have issues with determining what is... what is important to the reader in my story yet is not,
01:02:08.63
mothshade
um you know, is not, is not too much information. It's
01:02:14.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
h Yeah, that was always tough for me was right.
01:02:16.95
mothshade
like, I want to hit the highlights, but I don't want to reveal a twist or a thing or, you know, and, um and I have a problem with that.
01:02:19.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
And the yeah you always feel like you don't want to drop a spoiler. Right.
01:02:27.90
mothshade
And so, the issue I have with actually trying to get my work out there is the work of trying to get my work out there. And I wish I had an agent. I would kill to have an agent. I would say, here's all the stuff.
01:02:44.60
mothshade
You do your thing. i mean, that would be fantastic. And I would just sit and I would just write my ass off and just keep cranking out stuff. And you sell it because that's what you do. That's not what I do. I cannot sell I hate selling, i hate ah hate marketing, i hate all of it. I just want to write. So honestly, more often than not, I will write and I will not actually i will not actually submit um really what I write.
01:03:18.84
mothshade
um i will I will look, I say I look for opportunities. And and i have, weirdly enough, I have a following.
01:03:31.51
mothshade
I actually, it's like I've been online since the early days and um and I have shared my writing with people you know all over the place.
01:03:39.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:03:43.80
mothshade
I don't have any problem you know um um um hosting an excerpt or something on my page. I don't care.
01:03:55.39
mothshade
I'm not worried about it. um And As a result, I now have a whole lot of people who really interested in my writing and actually and actually you follow me because of my writing.
01:04:08.95
mothshade
Excuse me. and um And I'll admit early on, I didn't know if I was any good. So I posted online because, i mean, where else are you reverse where else you really likely get so much input that is completely honest?
01:04:20.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
right
01:04:27.35
mothshade
and absolutely and absolutely um a brutal. And I have never had anybody say I suck.
01:04:37.40
mothshade
So I've got no problem with that.
01:04:37.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah Well and if you if you suck The internet would would tell you For sure they They can't wait to tell people That they suck
01:04:38.96
mothshade
And also,
01:04:42.92
mothshade
right.
01:04:46.07
mothshade
Right, and also i and also when I was an associate editor for a year or two, um it's like I had to reject people.
01:04:57.66
mothshade
A lot of people.
01:04:57.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:04:59.35
mothshade
okay and i know exactly Why...
01:05:11.96
mothshade
excuse me i know i know I know why rejections happen. It's usually because, and exactly as it's written in the rejection, it's not what they're looking for. mean, it's not like you suck.
01:05:24.69
mothshade
It's like you... You were one of a hundred um um um pieces I read in the last in the last half hour.
01:05:37.59
mothshade
And you know I was only allowed to pick you know three. And yours was good. However, it's not it's not exactly what we wanted. And there were three people who wrote nearly exactly what we wanted at the time.
01:05:51.80
mothshade
That's the only reason why they were picked.
01:05:52.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:05:55.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. and And I didn't have a full appreciation for that until sometimes hilarious horror. Because the first magazine that I ran, ah we it was a ah monthly And we could put, I think, five or six stories in every issue.
01:06:08.93
mothshade
Yeah. Yeah.
01:06:10.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right now we're quarterly and we max out at eight stories per issue. Plus, you know, plus mine. I don't count mine because I don't get paid. But for a bunch of reasons. But like when we first started, we got very few submissions because we were nobody.
01:06:27.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
And so if I'm looking through five submissions and I want to, you know, I see one thing that's great and three things that are promising and one thing that really doesn't work for us.
01:06:39.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
I want to work with all the promising people and and see if they want to you know edit edit their story with me and and like really sharpen it and bring it up to snuff.
01:06:41.95
mothshade
Yep.
01:06:49.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it was great to be able to do that. And now I've got 200 submissions and sitting in my inbox and I can pick eight stories for the next issue.
01:06:59.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
So a lot of them are just sitting there because I don't want to just go through and be like, no, no, no, no. no But I also don't want people to have to wait six months for a reply.
01:07:10.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
So the whole thing is just like, and I find myself saying things like, this does not meet our needs at this time. And, you know, and like if I, in yeah, and that's the thing is it's not bullshit.
01:07:19.42
mothshade
And it's exactly the truth.
01:07:23.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it can feel like bullshit when you receive it from someone. I remember myself being like, oh, well, what are your needs at the present time, dick?
01:07:27.54
mothshade
Yeah. a lot of writers.
01:07:32.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, yeah.
01:07:33.08
mothshade
Well, usually if you look on the website, they will tell you what they like.
01:07:37.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:07:38.23
mothshade
Usually a website, usually a publisher who has a website, usually, usually they'll have a section that says, here's what we like.
01:07:38.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and if... And...
01:07:50.73
mothshade
Here's what we're looking for. Here's what we absolutely do not want. And it's all up to you now.
01:07:54.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
h
01:07:57.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and a good way to find out what kind of fiction they publish is to buy an issue or two and read it.
01:08:02.36
mothshade
Read what they've published.
01:08:04.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that's the thing.
01:08:04.57
mothshade
Yeah.
01:08:05.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, I have not... sold one issue, um ah like each issue has not sold the amount of of submissions I have in my inbox.
01:08:15.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
Most of these people have never read us before because our readership is is compact enough that and I get all the reports.
01:08:16.69
mothshade
Yeah.
01:08:19.38
mothshade
Yeah.
01:08:23.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
So I know who's reading our magazine and who's paying and who's a monthly subscriber. And it's not most of the people in my inbox, which is not to say like, oh no, how dare you submit?
01:08:34.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
But like, I understand why a lot of small publications charge reading fees. And I would never want to do that, but we'd break even if I charge like $2 to read your story.
01:08:43.56
mothshade
Oh,
01:08:46.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
We would, you know, we would have enough money to fund the magazine.
01:08:47.02
mothshade
God, yeah.
01:08:51.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
And for writers, it's kind of like a gamble because we pay $25 per story. So it's like, well, do I send $2 and hopefully get $25 back and get published? or you know, do I say, no, I'm going to submit to magazines that pay a royalty share?
01:09:08.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, well, I mean, i ran a magazine for somebody else that paid a royalty share. And in 18 months, I think I made about $200.
01:09:17.26
mothshade
God.
01:09:17.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
So that didn't really, ah you know, go my way.
01:09:21.34
mothshade
Well, if we're being if we're being you know absolutely honest, um the one story that I had published in a magazine um it's actually my first um short story I had published in an actual magazine.
01:09:22.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
so
01:09:40.59
mothshade
I'm pretty sure that I made $250 for that story?
01:09:49.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice. Was that a royalty share or a straight payment?
01:09:51.70
mothshade
Yeah.
01:09:54.55
mothshade
Straight payment.
01:09:55.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice.
01:09:56.22
mothshade
And i was like I was like, if I could do this regularly, I could actually live.
01:09:56.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice.
01:10:04.38
mothshade
but I can't do this.
01:10:04.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
01:10:06.52
mothshade
Okay, I can do this regularly. It's just, I'm not.
01:10:10.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, you need a place to, that will, you know, do, it's, it's not about creating the work. It's, Finding a place to put it where people will pay for it and see it. And, you know, all that. As you described, that's why people have agents.
01:10:24.47
mothshade
I really want...
01:10:24.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
01:10:25.66
mothshade
i really If there's an agent out there somewhere who would be even slightly interested in me as a client, please let me know.
01:10:35.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, you are shopping around a novel right now, though, right? Have you pitched any agents?
01:10:39.86
mothshade
um Years ago, when i wrote... When I when i originally... When I wrote the manuscript... and i'm not going And I'm not going to admit when that was because it it was a while ago. um i actually I actually queried a couple of agents.
01:11:00.59
mothshade
And um and honestly, they were really nice and they were really helpful and they were really friendly. And the only issue at the time was and didn't have a large enough catalog really that they could work with.
01:11:13.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Thank
01:11:17.11
mothshade
That was the only issue. um Now I have shopped my novel around a little bit. Um, there was a time when one of, I can't remember which one it is offhand now, but one of the really huge, um, um, um, publishers, um, they actually had, they actually had an open call, um,
01:11:45.77
mothshade
They actually i hope that he had an open call for manuscripts, which I was like, holy crap. So yeah, I i hurled it at them.
01:11:52.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
01:11:54.95
mothshade
And um the only, okay, the only issue um was that I had written my novel.
01:12:11.06
mothshade
Okay. I've written my novel in the first person singular.
01:12:18.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:12:19.00
mothshade
And they didn't like that.
01:12:21.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Ah.
01:12:24.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
that's That's my preferred POV as well.
01:12:27.58
mothshade
Now, I wrote it that way at the time. Usually it's not for me. okay This is the only time I've ever done this. And um at the time, the only reason I chose that was because
01:12:46.65
mothshade
The protagonist protagonists of the novel is an immortal. And and i just thought that writing writing everything from their viewpoint and all in the moment would convey that um um um um personality more.
01:13:14.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. okay
01:13:15.93
mothshade
And I wrote the whole thing in the first part the singular. I never and never tried that before, and it was an exercise. Actually, nearly nearly nearly every writing I do is kind of an exercise. Because I don't write in one genre, and I don't write in one you know anything. It's like i like to
01:13:34.15
mothshade
it's like it's I like to try new things. on I like to learn new things. But anyway, um the only reason they gave me why why they didn't accept it was that they didn't like reading it in the first person singular.
01:13:48.54
mothshade
So i kind of
01:13:50.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
dang.
01:13:52.70
mothshade
ah kind of laid it aside for a while and you know just ah I was you know working on other things and I only submitted it to a couple other places and one of the places that I chose actually went out of business like
01:14:10.97
mothshade
I think couple months after i had submitted it. um And there was another one that I but i never heard back from.
01:14:14.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
so dang
01:14:20.25
mothshade
um And right now it's actually in the hands of a friend of a friend who is a writer and who has a few connections in the industry. And I am waiting to see what he thinks.
01:14:35.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow, okay, cool. Well, keep me posted.
01:14:38.55
mothshade
I can do that. Oh, you'll know. Trust me.
01:14:40.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
01:14:41.77
mothshade
You everybody will know.
01:14:43.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah Now, I'm curious to know um about world building and how you ah would approach that differently in fictional prose as opposed to something like a role-playing game.
01:15:01.93
mothshade
I've actually been. Actually, that's essentially one thing I. um there one yeah I'm sorry, I'm trying to control my speech better. um That is actually one thing i have considered a lot recently.
01:15:18.23
mothshade
And for me,
01:15:22.65
mothshade
the real difference is that, with me at least, okay, i don't know how other people do this, and there is and there isn't any in RPGs, know, I've never read anything like, OK, here's how to do it. And OK, with me, if it's an RPG, I am creating the world and I'm populating it.
01:15:43.70
mothshade
For stories. If I'm writing a novel, I will.
01:15:45.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:15:46.72
mothshade
oh ah I will outline.
01:15:51.93
mothshade
The story. And create a world to support it.
01:15:57.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, that makes sense.
01:15:59.54
mothshade
And. I don't know it's because of my anxiety or also have OCD, but I don't know it's because of really how my brain works.
01:16:12.57
mothshade
Nearly every project i create, nearly nearly every nearly every writing you know that I have that I do, I can't help create a world for it.
01:16:25.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
01:16:28.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's so neat. And that's something your brain just does automatically. It just wants you to do that and expand and like,
01:16:33.69
mothshade
Yeah, I'm all about the details. I create details for everything. I can't help it. It just... It's like I'll have an idea or a concept for something, and I will usually write it down in a notebook um using a pencil by hand.
01:16:47.32
mothshade
and And while I'm writing, I'm brainstorming, you know, just little ideas and little things. And... and And usually by the time I'm through, i have pages and pages and pages of just things.
01:17:02.84
mothshade
um and And honestly, I do that for everything. I have all these worlds and I try to combine things usually where I can, you know, to save work and effort for myself. And, know, also that, you know, it's an easy way to, it's an easy way to, it the sorry, it's an easy way to way to add um layers um because I have all these ideas where you know they have you know where they have overlaps and they have things in common and they have you know kind of a flavor in common and and it's easy to combine certain things and um I just have
01:17:51.58
mothshade
so much. I mean, pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and pages of information and just world building and ideas and um little details. I mean, just little details.
01:18:07.58
mothshade
and um And I just can't not do that.
01:18:07.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
01:18:14.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
That is so much like the opposite of what I do. I'll be halfway through at ah a fight scene and be like, oh yeah, there's a window. I probably should have said something about that.
01:18:25.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because i I hate getting bogged down. and And I don't mean to imply that having details is bogging things down, but it it feels that way to me. Maybe I'm just not very good at explaining things. Because, I mean, you've read my stuff. I'm all about economy of language.
01:18:42.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that's...
01:18:42.62
mothshade
Can we clarify me clarify what I said, actually, because I'm not sure it all came through.
01:18:47.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. Okay.
01:18:48.02
mothshade
it
01:18:52.60
mothshade
And that's my fault. um When I say I create a whole world in details, um usually usually about 80% of it really does not actually show up in my writing.
01:19:04.33
mothshade
It's all in the background.
01:19:07.50
mothshade
It's all there,
01:19:07.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh,
01:19:09.59
mothshade
foot It's not always in the store, which is why which's why I create RPGs. Because eventually it eventually it all gets used and it's all there and it all gets shared.
01:19:21.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
oh yeah, because that kind of, I don't want to say you make it up as as you go along, but there are a lot of variables that have to be expanded on, right?
01:19:26.87
mothshade
Oh, I do have that too.
01:19:30.39
mothshade
Yes. And I create a whole world. Okay. and actually this is And actually, this is actually actually actually this is also a secret. Okay.
01:19:41.37
mothshade
One reason why I create a whole world my RPGs is so I can just create as I go while I play because it's all there in the background. I know what's you know all around us and what's there and available, and I can just create on the fly while I am running the game because it's all there in the background.
01:20:03.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice. that's Actually, that's why I use character sheets.
01:20:05.89
mothshade
I don't have to write any stories.
01:20:08.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
that Yeah, that makes so much sense.
01:20:09.03
mothshade
Mm-hmm. It's all there. i don't have to write any plots or any adventures. Really, all I have to do is go, okay, where are we going today? and I know what's there.
01:20:21.37
mothshade
And I just let you know everybody who's... is I let the players kind of choose... choose their areas of interest. I let them know what's there. I give them all the details.
01:20:38.17
mothshade
And... And I just watch and and observe
01:20:47.42
mothshade
which details you know hit them the hardest.
01:20:52.76
mothshade
Because they'll always ask a question about the details that really interest them.
01:20:53.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
I see. Wow.
01:20:57.97
mothshade
I mean, as an example, I've had a whole adventure completely um um complete um um um um completely um um
01:21:11.38
mothshade
you know i'm sorry um um I've had an adventure derailed by mentioning apple butter. It's
01:21:19.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah wow
01:21:20.98
mothshade
like I had the adventurers, you know, the entrance of a town, the gate of a town, and they're having a chat with an old man.
01:21:32.80
mothshade
gatekeeper at the gate. And, you know, they're asking questions about the town because
01:21:43.06
mothshade
He's never been there before.
01:21:44.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:21:45.14
mothshade
you know, and he gave him, he's like, oh, this, this, and this. And also this season's apple butter is particularly fine. And that's all I said. The whole group, they went into the town and went searching for apple butter.
01:21:59.22
mothshade
They had to have apple butter. They went all through that town trying to find the, um not just apple butter, but the best apple butter in town.
01:22:15.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
well I can't blame them for that apple butter is delicious
01:22:18.39
mothshade
We spent an hour and a half of the game time on that. Not adventuring, not anything else, but just looking for apple butter.
01:22:26.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
did they find it though no I can't no I can't
01:22:28.47
mothshade
Well, yes, I had to let them find. I had to let them find the damn apple. but Can you imagine what would happen if I hadn't let them find apple butter?
01:22:36.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
no i can't
01:22:38.30
mothshade
They would have lost their shit. Of course they found apple butter. And while they were looking for it, I was working in my head on a description of this fantastic apple butter so so I could describe it where they found it.
01:22:44.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
That is hilarious.
01:22:53.46
mothshade
It was insane. And it was awesome.
01:22:56.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow. Yeah, I guess so. Wow. that's Yeah, see, I often wonder if I would like RPGs if I did them. But...
01:23:05.91
mothshade
I think you would.
01:23:07.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, my my sister thinks that too. oh Actually, she's H's sister, but you know We've been together for so long, she's basically my sister now. um
01:23:15.70
mothshade
but and There's actually RPGs of every genre and every it's every property you can imagine there's an RPG for it. There's a Walking Dead role-playing game.
01:23:21.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I've read some of the the White Wolf stuff. Mostly because a movie ripped them off and I wanted to know all the details.
01:23:27.00
mothshade
oh God.
01:23:30.90
mothshade
Yeah.
01:23:30.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
01:23:32.28
mothshade
Yep. I was there, I know.
01:23:34.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:23:34.90
mothshade
And it's true.
01:23:36.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right.
01:23:36.79
mothshade
um White Wolf is... White Wolf can be problematic, but but if you actually have players you know who are human beings and mature, it's not a big deal.
01:23:49.69
mothshade
But if not, it can quickly it can it can quickly degenerate into
01:23:58.94
mothshade
schlock and crab.
01:24:00.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, some of that content is pretty adult.
01:24:04.12
mothshade
That's kind of where I'm going with this. Yeah.
01:24:07.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. hum Yeah, that's...
01:24:10.78
mothshade
someone know What kind of role playing you're into.
01:24:11.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
01:24:14.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, that's the thing about RPGs, though, is that you're going to learn things about your friends. So get ready for that, right?
01:24:24.06
mothshade
When I ran a game in the ninety s when I ran a game of.
01:24:30.78
mothshade
Actually, a long running game of. um
01:24:34.81
mothshade
Vampire the Masquerade, which is a white wolf game. I learned things about a couple of my friends that I wish I could unlearn. And i'm not saying everybody's like this.
01:24:44.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:24:45.94
mothshade
I'm just saying that there are certain kinds of games where
01:24:54.90
mothshade
with the rules and the structure and the subject matter encourage a certain kind of role-playing.
01:25:08.34
mothshade
Which is why I'm very choosy about you know what I run for my games, even an edition of a game that I choose. Because they're often very different. um And
01:25:22.65
mothshade
and a rule set will encourage a certain um kind of gaming. and And honestly, after all these years, I've been gaming and I've been running games for over 40 years now.
01:25:37.34
mothshade
I don't have the patience for, you know, crap and wasting my time, you know, at a table with people. So I'm really particular about one, actually about the game I'm running. And also I'm really, I'm really particular about, about my players. I pick.
01:26:02.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
That makes sense. I mean, as in life, right?
01:26:05.18
mothshade
I had to learn the hard way. You have to learn the hard way sometimes, though, because it can be really difficult because in role-playing as an industry, everybody wants to play.
01:26:19.16
mothshade
Everybody wants to run a character. Very few people actually run a game. And honestly, that's all I've ever done is run games. So I have to find players, and that's easy. I mean, they're everywhere.
01:26:32.15
mothshade
However... Trying to come up with the person who is willing to create and run a game is not easy. So I would be flooded with requests, and all kinds of players, you know, and it was, it's almost like when you're an editor, it's like, okay, I've got 20 requests and I only have, and I only have five seats.
01:26:56.31
mothshade
fact
01:26:56.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
01:26:57.88
mothshade
And I don't, and I, and a lot of these people are strangers. I don't know, you know,
01:27:01.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:27:02.33
mothshade
eight people I'm going to have them in my home, and I don't know these people because I run my games usually at home. um Every now and then online, but not often. So I've had to be particular, and i've learned the hard way.
01:27:14.84
mothshade
People lie. People lie to get into a game. um And people also...
01:27:27.00
mothshade
i won't say people who are who are who are really in to role playing games have, you know, have issues with social interaction, but a lot of them do.
01:27:42.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
a Well, and it's weird to me because I would think of an RPG as being something that you do with your friends. So it it wouldn't occur to me to want to go to a stranger or a virtual stranger's house to to play.
01:27:56.73
mothshade
Let me ask you a question.
01:27:57.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
Uh-huh.
01:27:59.83
mothshade
Sure, let me ask you a question.
01:28:04.60
mothshade
how many friends you have within a... Oh...
01:28:16.16
mothshade
I'll give you a 50-mile radius.
01:28:18.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
a 50 mile radius?
01:28:20.38
mothshade
Good friends that you would have in your house.
01:28:20.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
Uh...
01:28:24.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Maybe... Five or six?
01:28:28.91
mothshade
That's almost enough to have a game.
01:28:30.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
01:28:32.09
mothshade
Then...
01:28:32.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. Okay.
01:28:33.53
mothshade
Then you have to get them all together at the same time.
01:28:39.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure. Sure.
01:28:43.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, that that makes sense.
01:28:43.90
mothshade
Week after week. Yeah.
01:28:50.67
mothshade
It's hard.
01:28:52.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, scheduling group activities with adults is ridiculous. It's, I mean, yeah, I, uh, I concur.
01:29:00.25
mothshade
Unless you're lucky to have adult friends who are actually adults. Yeah.
01:29:04.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
mut Yep. Um, okay. I'm looking over my question list cause we're getting toward the end of our time. And you consented to talk about a time when you felt legitimate fear for your life.
01:29:18.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
And you don't have to still do that if you don't want to. But if you would like to say something about that, now is the time for that.
01:29:22.16
mothshade
I've got no problem.
01:29:26.65
mothshade
No problem. and I'll try to keep it brief. um When I was in high school, I had a friend and he and I decided that we were going to just leave a little bit early and skip school.
01:29:41.85
mothshade
We were about 16. And we decided to go to his house and hang out you know for the rest of the day because, well, there was nobody at his house and his house was in walking distance and mine was not.
01:29:52.86
mothshade
So.
01:29:53.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:29:54.55
mothshade
We snuck out of school and just left school. And okay. Now at the time, um he lived on the other side of a ravine that had a railroad track at the bottom of it.
01:30:08.60
mothshade
I don't know how deep it was, but I have an issue with heights. Well, if they're man-made heights and I, and I got a little, I got, I got a little wibbly wobbly at the idea of, um,
01:30:23.70
mothshade
At the time at the time, there was a road under construction that went um um past our high school and over and over connected with the road where he lived off of that road.
01:30:38.49
mothshade
And they were building a bridge at the time. It was over the ravine. And all they had crossing over the ravine at the time, there were these I-beams.
01:30:52.47
mothshade
Can you see where we're going with this?
01:30:54.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, i think so, and I don't like it.
01:30:54.33
mothshade
So. Well. He was. Okay I was actually willing to just. Crawl down the ravine on one side.
01:31:04.78
mothshade
Walk across the railroad tracks. And climb all the way back up the other side. It was a long way down.
01:31:08.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:31:09.50
mothshade
But I was like. Whatever. Or you know we could have just. Walked way around. Anyway. He was anyway he was like Hey, why don't we cross on the I-beam?
01:31:25.02
mothshade
And I just looked at him. Now you gotta... to Okay, at the time... Okay, at the time i was... Really skinny, and I was really agile, and I had really good balance, and I had no problem doing this, actually.
01:31:39.58
mothshade
You know, was like...
01:31:40.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, dude, if there was ever a time to use the phrase, let's not, and say we did, that is the time for that. for That's why that phrase was invented, for that situation.
01:31:53.21
mothshade
We were 16.
01:31:55.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, let's not, and say we did.
01:31:57.82
mothshade
I actually tried and he called me a wuss.
01:32:03.99
mothshade
So what was I to do?
01:32:06.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
You had no choice at that point, I suppose.
01:32:09.85
mothshade
So anyway,
01:32:10.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
mean, it might as well be a triple dog dare.
01:32:13.59
mothshade
so anyway, I went first, I began walking across. I had no problem. None. I mean, I kept my eyes on the other side because like I said, I have a real issue with heights, but only man-made heights. I can
01:32:29.56
mothshade
it i can do rock climbing. I can anything else. If it's a man-made thing, I don't trust it. It's like way in the back of my head, i don't trust it.
01:32:42.49
mothshade
You know, it any... um um so um I do not trust any... any structure a human built. So anyway, I'm walking across. I get about halfway across.
01:32:59.03
mothshade
And... Like I said, I'm just watching ahead. Okay.
01:33:03.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
huh
01:33:03.90
mothshade
Because I want to get across as quickly and easily as possible. I'm not worrying about him. This was his idea. Okay.
01:33:10.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right, right.
01:33:11.16
mothshade
He insisted. I assumed he was cool. I get about halfway across and hear this croaking sound.
01:33:16.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
Uh-oh.
01:33:19.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh no!
01:33:21.82
mothshade
He's trying to say something, however he can't, because he's too scared. So I look over my shoulder, I see him crouching on the I-beam about a quarter, well, actually closer to halfway across.
01:33:35.96
mothshade
A little behind me, but not too far. He's crouching on the I-beam with his hands, you know, i clenching it, and it's obvious he can't go any further.
01:33:45.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
What a wuss. Uh-huh.
01:33:48.31
mothshade
So...
01:33:49.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, no. Oh,
01:33:51.64
mothshade
So I turn around. At that point, I accidentally glance, you know. You know, outward some.
01:34:02.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
no.
01:34:03.10
mothshade
My head spins. I'm I don't know where the hell I am.
01:34:08.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
no
01:34:09.91
mothshade
um i don't I don't know what's up. And I'm like, oh shit.
01:34:18.33
mothshade
I'm about to fall and die because i mean, I was wobbling. i was however, however, for some reason i have no idea how long it lasted after, you know, a little bit.
01:34:31.51
mothshade
i was OK again. and and i was on the beam sideways. So I just kind of like, you know, slowly sidestepped.
01:34:47.38
mothshade
and know over to where he was on the I-beam. And helped him up. And helped him back you know over to his side of the beam. So he...
01:34:59.54
mothshade
hey um Yeah. um
01:35:05.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
So did you go across or did you go back the way you came?
01:35:05.08
mothshade
I guess I saved him.
01:35:09.05
mothshade
and I went back the way we came. I if
01:35:10.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. Okay.
01:35:11.13
mothshade
is I was over halfway across and he wasn't quite halfway across. So it was closer to the other side, in the original side, his side. um I helped him back over to the original side. And eventually after we had calmed down some, we went all the way down the ravine on one side, climbed up the ravine on the other side and went to his house.
01:35:35.96
mothshade
Because he couldn't, he panicked.
01:35:36.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
by that point it was like 8 at night and your day was over um that is that is crazy cause
01:35:37.40
mothshade
you
01:35:39.86
mothshade
No, it was like, It was noon or so. Yeah. a I would never forget you know the sensation of that, and I'm and i'm actually going put it in one of my stories, because...
01:35:53.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
oh you should yeah
01:35:55.48
mothshade
Because, I mean, I've heard... I
01:36:00.34
mothshade
i mean, you've read about... Vertigo, I guess is what it was at the time.
01:36:04.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Uh-huh, uh-huh.
01:36:06.01
mothshade
do You watched... the movies and such, but mean, it's just, I mean, it's, I mean, the feeling is just, I mean, it is, it is honestly overwhelming. And i mean, it's not like any anything I've ever experienced before. And, and I honestly thought I was going to die.
01:36:27.64
mothshade
i mean, I honestly believed I was just going to fall right off the side beam because I was not in control. I didn't know where I was. i didn't know what was happening. And I just assumed I was about to die.
01:36:40.47
mothshade
I really did.
01:36:43.74
mothshade
And I assumed that he was going to die too, because he wasn't able to go across.
01:36:43.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yikes.
01:36:46.46
mothshade
He was i mean he was hanging along with his hands. I mean, he was like crouched.
01:36:50.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, how much do you remember about what went through your mind when you really thought you weren't gonna make it?
01:37:02.39
mothshade
Okay, this might be...
01:37:06.61
mothshade
It's kind of weird. um Okay. One, I was angry at my friend.
01:37:11.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, yeah, okay. Well,
01:37:15.77
mothshade
And I wasn't angry that he made us cross this thing. I was angry that he made me turn around.
01:37:21.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
well yeah.
01:37:22.65
mothshade
Because I would have been fine. I was pissed off. And the only ah and the only other the only the only other thing I can remember...
01:37:34.14
mothshade
At the time there into my mind is God, my mom's going to be pissed.
01:37:37.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
Hmm. Hmm. You know, what I think was very clearly illustrated in your story is the difference between being brave and being fearless.
01:37:49.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because your friend was fearless and he did not consider consequences, whereas you had to be brave because you knew full well that that was a potentially fatal situation.
01:38:04.63
mothshade
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
01:38:04.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
And what ultimately happened was that the fearless guy... got smacked in the face by reality, and then you had to be even more brave to save your friend.
01:38:15.45
mothshade
Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. I hadn't really considered that, but yeah.
01:38:19.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, bravery versus fearlessness is a very important distinction that is not discussed enough, in my opinion.
01:38:27.43
mothshade
It's actually important in what I'm writing right now with couple of my characters and that's where I'm going to be using a few of a few of the details of this experience actually in my writing is actually the novel is actually the novel I'm writing right now and I was working on i was working on this morning and I was actually waiting on our
01:38:50.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, you said that you were writing this morning.
01:38:51.00
mothshade
interview yeah and that's actually where I'll be using this because um Actually, in this one, the characters are either right out of high school or.
01:39:06.68
mothshade
Or actually, one's a high school senior, the others are college age.
01:39:11.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
and Okay. Okay.
01:39:12.60
mothshade
So I'm like, yeah, I've got so I've got a few things to say. i got a few things I could say for this. Yeah, I can use this.
01:39:21.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right. Well, you know, we're, we're just about, uh, to our wrap up question. So was there anything that you wanted to talk about that we didn't get to?
01:39:31.61
mothshade
No, I rambled quite a bit.
01:39:34.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, I don't remember that rambling. No, everything seems so valuable to me. um I, I do also like to give guests an opportunity to ask me a question. And I think you indicated that you wanted to know why i choose horror as, as my main genre.
01:39:50.90
mothshade
Yeah, you touched upon it a little bit.
01:39:51.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, uh,
01:39:52.30
mothshade
However, I'm really curious if there was any like one event or any... or any... or any... like or any ah one author or any one experience or anything that really said that's for me.
01:40:07.18
mothshade
That's what I want.
01:40:09.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
I can actually point to a few different things. Now, I grew up on horror. I was raised on it. Sir Graves Gastly was my hero, the Detroit horror host.
01:40:15.57
mothshade
Oh
01:40:19.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
01:40:19.47
mothshade
yeah. Yeah.
01:40:20.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
I think I was nine or ten when I started reading Stephen King because Gen X parents did not give a shit what we read. We were allowed to read pretty much anything, at least at my house.
01:40:31.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
And um so I was very into horror at a young age and
01:40:33.65
mothshade
I am Gen X.
01:40:36.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah i'm I'm turning 55 on Monday. So I am.
01:40:39.26
mothshade
I'll be 55 in December.
01:40:40.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. So yeah, I am the Gen X. And um thank you.
01:40:43.76
mothshade
Happy early birthday.
01:40:45.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
and And the thing is, my mom also liked horror. And she was an abusive, horrible person.
01:40:49.91
mothshade
Oh.
01:40:53.98
mothshade
Oh.
01:40:54.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
So ah horror, like memories of watching horror are one of the thing the few things that my mom and I consistently enjoyed together.
01:40:58.78
mothshade
Yeah. Yeah.
01:41:04.41
mothshade
wow.
01:41:05.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
So horror to me has like a, I don't want to say a warm fuzzy connotation, but putting it, putting in a horror movie means nobody is going to hit you for the next 90 to 120 minutes.
01:41:11.83
mothshade
Now I get it.
01:41:18.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
So it, it has that, that comforting vibe to me always, because truthfully, i think that if an agent looked at my work, they would say, you're not a horror writer.
01:41:18.58
mothshade
I see that.
01:41:23.76
mothshade
Wow.
01:41:29.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
You write dark comedy. You are a black comedy writer.
01:41:32.01
mothshade
Yeah.
01:41:33.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
and i And that's fair. I just love horror, so I want to think of myself as a horror person. And as long as people are dying and getting devastated, come on, man, that's horror.
01:41:43.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
Work with me.
01:41:45.34
mothshade
I so get that.
01:41:47.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. so So that's where I'm at with that. um But also, i mean, Stephen King, i read a lot of Stephen King because i found his work very accessible.
01:42:00.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Even though as a fat girl, there was a lot to not feel good about the way that he he talked about fat people, which is like, I mean, that's a huge topic for another day.
01:42:07.10
mothshade
um
01:42:12.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
But um apart from that, like Stephen King, the the short story collections in particular, are great primers in how to reveal information, how to choose a point of view, you know, and and why that matters to the the telling of the story, like who, you know, and and that was so educational for me that by the time On Writing came out, I already thought that he was my writing tutor.
01:42:40.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
He just didn't know it. Yes.
01:42:42.74
mothshade
is very generous with that, actually. he
01:42:44.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes.
01:42:48.12
mothshade
He talks with a lot of people about writing, and he's you know he's always happy to do it, and I i admire him for that.
01:42:56.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I've never heard of ah any young writer say, I asked Stephen King for help and he didn't help me. I mean, I know he can't reply to everyone, but you don't hear about him like being rude and shitty to people.
01:43:03.26
mothshade
Exactly.
01:43:08.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know not Not all of his internet jokes land as well as he seems to think they do, but yes.
01:43:14.30
mothshade
He also goes around and gives a lot of talks and interactive you know things. and so yeah i mean He's very generous.
01:43:19.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and giving away the rights to the the short stories to new filmmakers, I always thought was a classy move.
01:43:25.05
mothshade
I know, right? Yeah. Me too.
01:43:28.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:43:28.54
mothshade
Actually, the only reason why I'm really aware of of i mean King at all I mean, know the other than watching him on TV for Salem's Lot and pissing my pants is um is really because of is really because of Lovecraft. He's a huge H.P. Lovecraft fan.
01:43:43.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
01:43:44.63
mothshade
And everything, you know, nearly all of his writings will have a reference or have <unk>ll have a piece of Lovecraft in there somewhere.
01:43:56.65
mothshade
That's only reason why I'm really aware of him um really as a writer. um because I've read a couple of his things, but honestly, they're not really my thing.
01:44:11.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, well, that's fair.
01:44:11.86
mothshade
I know that sounds weird because he writes a lot of the things you know that i'm I'm into, but for some reason, I just, I don't know. Just never really...
01:44:21.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I think we we all have...
01:44:23.79
mothshade
like the only thing of his that I've read that I... It's the only thing of his I've really read are The Talisman, and he wrote that with Peter Straub.
01:44:29.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, no, that's not a good one. That's not a good book. Sorry, it's it's not good.
01:44:32.41
mothshade
Well, what
01:44:35.19
mothshade
Well, and also the Dark Tower series.
01:44:37.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, yeah. You know what? I haven't read any of the Dark Tower stuff. I was so into like the early stuff. ah Carrie, Salem's Lot, Cujo, The Shining, ah Pet Sematary.
01:44:47.70
mothshade
Yeah.
01:44:49.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, that that is the stuff that will knock your socks off.
01:44:52.28
mothshade
And i read The Shining years ago. And i I tried reading ah tried reading either Carrie or Cujo. hujo I tried reading Cujo and was just like, eh.
01:45:08.22
mothshade
i don't know. It just wasn't for me, I guess.
01:45:10.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, Carrie is an interesting choice, especially talking about point of view, because Carrie, the novel, has several different points of view. There's like a scholarly book that was written after the incidents.
01:45:23.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
There are excerpts from a book called My Name is Sue Snell, which would be the book that that the character wrote about her surviving the incidents and what her perspective is.
01:45:28.37
mothshade
Okay.
01:45:32.83
mothshade
It's also the one It's also the one that he threw in the trash and his wife cut out and had published, right?
01:45:39.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I don't know that... I think that my understanding is that he had a pretty good bite on it. Like a couple of chapters. And she saved that from the trash and was like, hey, why did you throw this out? This is actually really good. You should finish it.
01:45:56.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that makes a ton of sense to me. H h didn't read my writing for the longest time. he He doesn't read it now unless I say, please sit down and read this and tell me what you think.
01:46:08.98
mothshade
I'm lucky my wife actually will read my writing out loud so I can hear it.
01:46:08.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because...
01:46:13.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, wow.
01:46:14.58
mothshade
And that's a gigantic help.
01:46:16.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'll bet that sounds way better than Siri.
01:46:19.54
mothshade
It does. And it's a humongous help hearing it out loud because it's like use a so you use all different areas um different an areas of your brain and it's like a whole other input, you know, and it's like, oh, oh, why did I write that?
01:46:34.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:46:37.37
mothshade
Oh, I got to fix that.
01:46:37.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, right. Reading stories out loud for podcasts has changed the way that I write a little bit. I'm like conscious of the the words that I choose like in a different way.
01:46:45.53
mothshade
Yeah.
01:46:49.69
mothshade
Mm-hmm. Me too.
01:46:50.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
If that makes sense.
01:46:50.52
mothshade
Oh, it does.
01:46:51.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:46:51.85
mothshade
Absolutely.
01:46:52.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, speaking of words, man, it's time for the Mad Lib.
01:46:54.58
mothshade
i
01:46:55.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
It is time for it now.
01:46:55.74
mothshade
Madlib!
01:46:56.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right.
01:46:57.34
mothshade
Hit me!
01:46:57.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
So let me see. Let's see. I need a bunch of adjectives. One, two, three, four, five adjectives.
01:47:06.75
mothshade
Oh, Jesus. Okay, five adjectives. um Crunchy.
01:47:16.09
mothshade
Green.
01:47:20.06
mothshade
um Wet.
01:47:25.40
mothshade
Short. Yeah.
01:47:30.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
One more.
01:47:32.38
mothshade
Yeah. One more is going to be...
01:47:45.05
mothshade
Rusty.
01:47:47.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, I need, uh-oh, says person and room. Person and room is always the guest. Oh, actually there's two. So one will be you and one will be me. All right, so for nouns, I need singular nouns.
01:47:58.11
mothshade
Rusty. Rusty.
01:48:00.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
I need one, two, three, four, five, six singular nouns.
01:48:06.01
mothshade
Bloody hell.
01:48:06.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
I know, right?
01:48:07.13
mothshade
All right. Singular nouns, six of them. All right. We're going to go with lasagna or lasagna noodle, if that's more appropriate.
01:48:25.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
We'll just say lasagna. I think that's good.
01:48:27.93
mothshade
Okay. And baseball bat.
01:48:33.78
mothshade
ah
01:48:43.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
See, this is always more difficult for writers because you feel the pressure to give interesting words.
01:48:47.63
mothshade
going to go with ladle.
01:48:48.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
Seriously, man, musicians just look around the room, like, a table, TV, ceiling. um
01:48:56.79
mothshade
okay um we're going to go with ladle
01:49:05.03
mothshade
We're going to go with
01:49:16.28
mothshade
dead cat.
01:49:21.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:49:22.23
mothshade
And how many more do I have?
01:49:22.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
Two more. Two more.
01:49:24.57
mothshade
Two more. Two more, two more, two more, two more. Fair tire. um um fair tire
01:49:36.92
mothshade
and And
01:49:44.45
mothshade
shotgun.
01:49:46.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right, and I need, let's see, a verb ending in ing.
01:49:57.75
mothshade
um
01:50:01.49
mothshade
Swallowing.
01:50:05.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right, a part of the body. Mm-hmm.
01:50:09.30
mothshade
Well, gee, right after swallowing, that's kind of unnerving. All right. Heart of the body, we're going to say neck.
01:50:21.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
And a plural noun. i need two of those actually, two plural nouns.
01:50:26.14
mothshade
But of course you do. All right. um Speakers. Now I'm looking around my room, my office. And... and Light bulbs.
01:50:42.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
And i need an article of clothing.
01:50:53.62
mothshade
Oh, hell, we'll go with undies.
01:50:58.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
And an exclamation.
01:51:02.49
mothshade
Jinkies. Jinkies.
01:51:07.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right, sweet. So this is from the sports section of the Mad Lib book. And this is called Going Going Gone.
01:51:11.16
mothshade
Oh, bloody hell.
01:51:15.48
mothshade
Hit me.
01:51:16.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, so this is a crunchy sports commentary to be read aloud. Announcer 1. Well, it's a green day for baseball here at Baseball Bat Park.
01:51:27.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
and
01:51:27.48
mothshade
Perfect.
01:51:28.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right?
01:51:28.50
mothshade
Nailed it.
01:51:30.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
And David is about to throw out the first ladle. Announcer two. He's facing wetness, who is a wet hitter with a 325 swallowing average. Oh, you prick.
01:51:45.55
mothshade
Nailed
01:51:47.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, announcer one. Here's the pitch. It's a dead cat. Ball for strike one. ah Hitter doesn't look too short about it. He's shaking his neck and stepping outside the batter's spare tire to collect his speakers.
01:52:02.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
Announcer 2. The pitcher adjusts his undies and reads the signs from his catcher. He nods.
01:52:08.37
mothshade
Damn,
01:52:09.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
He winds up. Here's the shotgun.
01:52:12.66
mothshade
damn dude!
01:52:12.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah They must be play.
01:52:14.06
mothshade
Nailed it again.
01:52:15.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
I know, right? Uh, announcer number one, it's a hit deep to right lasagna. It's going, going, it's rusty. Jinkies, a home run for the light bulbs.
01:52:28.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
And there we have it. Yes. I love the Mad Lib. It's my favorite part of the show. Um, and I hope, I hope Mad Lib never sues me because I don't have their permission to do this.
01:52:34.90
mothshade
That was awesome.
01:52:39.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
Um, David,
01:52:40.83
mothshade
It's okay, won't tell. Yes.
01:52:42.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
Thank you. Well, like I said, I think like 40 people might listen to this show. um Hi, everyone. No, um David, I'm so glad you could be here. This was a great conversation. I had so much fun.
01:52:54.04
mothshade
thank you i really really enjoyed it much more than i actually imagined i was really nervous because well speaking and all
01:53:00.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I'm a terrible person and I'm known for being really hostile, so I can see why it would be unnerving to think you had to come and talk to me for two hours. um No,
01:53:09.42
mothshade
it's just hard on this it's just hard when you stutter that's all
01:53:13.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
I get it, man. I mean, I don't get it from experience, but I can certainly understand it, which is why i was so touched and honored that you agreed to to come and do this. And it was it was so worthwhile.
01:53:22.64
mothshade
Well, like I said before, I've actually had offers and requests before and i've and I've actually turned them all down just because I wasn't, I don't know. I just, but when you asked me, i was actually excited. So I, you know, I thought, well, i'll give it a try this one time.
01:53:42.72
mothshade
going to ask, what's the worst that can happen? It'll be unusable and you just have to delete it. What the fuck? Yeah.
01:53:48.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, sure. I mean, i don't even know who said it, but there's a ah common saying that we tend to regret the things that we don't do much more than we regret the things that we do.
01:53:59.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
And if you're not a serial killer, I'm sure that's accurate.
01:53:59.96
mothshade
Yeah, well, there is a lot.
01:54:03.42
mothshade
And if you're not walking across an I-beam over a railroad track, I really appreciate this.
01:54:08.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right. Well, I...
01:54:09.54
mothshade
Thank you.
01:54:10.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, of course. Of course. Now, I want to remind all our listeners that the best way to support the show is to find us on Ko-Fi, where we are Sometimes Hilarious Horror.
01:54:20.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
So that's ko-fi slash Sometimes Hilarious Horror. Supporting the magazine with a subscription or a purchase is the best way to make sure that we also have money to do this show.
01:54:32.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
So thanks so much to everybody, and we will see you next week.
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