Mentally Oddcast Transcript: Author and Advocate Amanda Graham
Find more from Amanda Graham here.
00:00:02.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
You are listening to the Mentally Oddcast. My name is Wednesday, Lee, Friday, and we are brought to you by Sometimes Hilarious Horror Magazine. Do find us on Ko-Fi, that's K-O-F-I, Sometimes Hilarious Horror.
00:00:17.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
This week, our guest is Amanda Graham, who has written for Apple TV, BBC TV, and has worked for projects from Channel 4, BBC, Zero Gravity Group,
00:00:29.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
Amanda.
00:00:33.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
amanda hosts the podcast neurodi disruptptors and is a disability consultant for television programming her recent book is called good stuff to read when you're about to lose your shit welcome amanda
00:00:47.37
Amanda Graham
It's such a pleasure to be here Wednesday. And let me tell you, your voice is like butter. It's beautiful. I love it.
00:00:54.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, thank you so much. So much. I'm so glad that we could do this. um i think we're going to have a lot of great information for listeners here. um Before we get into the heavy stuff, we actually like to start by asking guests to tell us about the first horror movie that they remember seeing.
00:01:12.87
Amanda Graham
Okay, well,
00:01:13.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
So let's hear it.
00:01:14.43
Amanda Graham
I'm really going to date myself when I say this, but I mean, the the jig is up. Everybody knows I'm old anyways. The first horror film I ever saw was Jaws in a drive-in theater in, was it, 1975, 76? Yeah, yep, Terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. Terrifying.
00:01:32.98
Amanda Graham
five seventy six yeah yep
00:01:33.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
five
00:01:35.27
Amanda Graham
jaws terrifying absolutely terrifying
00:01:39.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
What if I told you that there are people who don't believe that Jaws is a horror movie?
00:01:44.70
Amanda Graham
don't know. Well, okay, well, you know, they can believe what they want.
00:01:47.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
it's It's a whole thing.
00:01:47.42
Amanda Graham
That doesn't, it doesn't make it right.
00:01:49.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
it's all
00:01:49.35
Amanda Graham
i mean, buts it's, it's got a monster. People die. There's blood everywhere. There's arms and legs. and
00:01:56.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep, yep.
00:01:56.77
Amanda Graham
You've even, you've even got, sorry, you've even got government.
00:01:57.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
See, i' I'm with you.
00:02:00.46
Amanda Graham
Yeah. You've got like the government people that go, we shouldn't do anything. And then they regret it at the end.
00:02:04.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
00:02:04.91
Amanda Graham
Like we see all of those things in a horror film. So Yeah.
00:02:07.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep. Very much so. Yeah, I mean, my standard response to that is a small boy gets eaten alive in front of you. If that's not horror, then perhaps it is time for a re-examination of what horror is.
00:02:21.74
Amanda Graham
Yeah, exactly.
00:02:21.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now... Excuse me. I'm so sorry. I'll cut that out in post. um
00:02:29.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, for fuck's sake!
00:02:33.60
Amanda Graham
Are you okay?
00:02:34.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, my phone's going off.
00:02:37.17
Amanda Graham
Oh, that's okay. That's, honey, it's life. It happens.
00:02:41.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, you know, usually i remember to turn off, to you know, put myself on Do Not Disturb before the show starts. But then if i if there's some tech problem and I can't get in touch with the guests, they can't, like, dude, I was trying to email you, and then, you know, I don't get the message or whatever. So, yeah, that happens.
00:02:58.92
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
00:02:59.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
um It seems like, from where I'm standing... that horror as a genre is taken more seriously in the UK than it is here, both both in terms of like ah being appreciated, but also being legitimized.
00:03:15.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, horror is kind of considered a trash genre here in the US.
00:03:18.94
Amanda Graham
yeah
00:03:20.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
Why do you think that is?
00:03:22.15
Amanda Graham
I think because horror is usually tied over here to... um ah it's It's always a metaphor for some struggle that's going on in real life, right? Like whether it's class or... um Well, especially class.
00:03:36.33
Amanda Graham
and and and And the older horrors tend to be the things about like crumbling buildings and um you know disintegrating relationships between people, people are unable to defend themselves.
00:03:49.85
Amanda Graham
um And and then they have very different settings to the in the UK than they do the US. And so i think I think that's probably why it's you know taken, i don't know, more seriously is the right word, but um ah yeah, it's very difficult to separate the two of them.
00:04:08.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's interesting because i'm I'm trying to think of a straight-up slasher movie that's come out of the UK.
00:04:09.46
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
00:04:15.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I know there's some... You know, there's there's the Australian guy that's like a true story guy. that There's a movie about him. For the most part, though, um we don't see just like, oh, look, it's a bunch of camp counselors being picked off one by one.
00:04:31.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
Those aren't the kind of movies that we see coming out of the UK. And I think you're right.
00:04:35.01
Amanda Graham
Thank you.
00:04:35.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
I think it's that... ah some countries do see the genre's worth in terms of ah tackling socio-political issues.
00:04:47.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Now, oh, I'm sorry, go ahead.
00:04:49.33
Amanda Graham
No, just absolutely. I mean, it can be, you know, 28 days. It could be Wicker Man. um So it could be anything like unchecked power. We see like things like, um well, Romper Stomper isn't, ah ah it's an Australian film, but it's embraced by the UK audience big time.
00:05:06.29
Amanda Graham
and and And that's majorly into class issues, racism, um all kinds of stuff. So it's really about those big social and political issues where I think the US is much more about personal safety and not the safety of the community.
00:05:22.20
Amanda Graham
And, um, yeah, I think that's one of the biggest things I always noticed about the the difference in the two.
00:05:28.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, that that's huge. The personal safety versus the community. Because when we talk about horror here, we often say that um the sci-fi genre is more about where we're going as a society.
00:05:42.28
Amanda Graham
Yes.
00:05:42.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
Whereas horror is is often used to test our limits as individuals. You know, what would we do under these extreme circumstances? Which is why you get like the people in the woods where there's a, maybe it's a monster, maybe it's just a regular bear.
00:05:51.18
Amanda Graham
Mm-hmm.
00:05:57.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
um But yeah, very much like personal struggles as opposed to society. Until you get into crossover stuff like The Thing and Body Snatchers and stuff where people have to work together.
00:06:10.92
Amanda Graham
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. um And I guess what's interesting is um when I think about certain American horror films, and though it's an individual struggle and you're absolutely right, they end up having to work together. They really emphasize how it impacts each individual character.
00:06:27.89
Amanda Graham
ah So like I think of something like Aliens um and, you know, we see what happens with Ripley. then um And with each person, we see their individual story. And um and so even though they work as a collective together, and i don't know, it's so it's so interesting. and and And obviously, then when we look at the other side and we look at British horror films, I think because it's talking about big social issues, I think it's a way of like making...
00:06:53.70
Amanda Graham
the the the point much more clear that whatever they're worried about, you know, um viruses, whether they're worried about, know, annihilation or whatever else, it's a way for them to say, we're already there, man. We're already there. And we're just trying to show you what this is going to feel like and what this is going to look like.
00:07:12.64
Amanda Graham
Whereas, you know, with something like Jason or something like Nightmare on Elm Street or whatever, that's not really something that's going to happen on a grand scale.
00:07:20.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
right
00:07:20.86
Amanda Graham
So it's not like really a warning thing. So it's much more about like, that kind of more taps into your worst nightmares, the things as a child you were always worried about, whereas British ones, it's more to shake people, I think, out of, you know, normalcy bias, essentially, if that makes sense.
00:07:37.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right, right. I'm actually thinking about the movie The Descent right now because that sort of straddles the line because people do go caving.
00:07:42.55
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
00:07:44.90
Amanda Graham
Yes, yeah, no, no, no, that's a good one.
00:07:47.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
like That's a thing that happens, but usually there aren't like
00:07:48.89
Amanda Graham
Oh my God.
00:07:50.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
chuds waiting to eat them.
00:07:51.88
Amanda Graham
No, we just have to worry about things like Nutty Putty. I'm obsessed with caving stuff like accidents. My son and I went through a very long period where we were watching them on YouTube, like YouTube, caving horrors and diving caving horrors for months.
00:08:05.69
Amanda Graham
So...
00:08:06.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:08:07.24
Amanda Graham
Oh my God. Yeah. I don't know why. um I think it's just to, to, to kind of feel better about the fact that I don't do that. And I don't mean that in a judgy way, everybody's got their own things, you know, that they like doing, but I've just, I mean, I'm curious about entering spaces that I wouldn't allow myself to go into.
00:08:25.88
Amanda Graham
And um yeah, that's one of the reasons.
00:08:27.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure, sure.
00:08:27.65
Amanda Graham
Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:29.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, that kind of stuff is terrifying. Because like a caving accident, that's kind of like getting hit by a train.
00:08:31.22
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
00:08:35.23
Amanda Graham
the
00:08:35.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, yes, that's awful, but you really had to try to put yourself in that situation.
00:08:39.07
Amanda Graham
yeah
00:08:40.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like that, that didn't just happen to you on the way to work.
00:08:40.25
Amanda Graham
yeah isn
00:08:43.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
00:08:43.76
Amanda Graham
Amen. Yes. Correct.
00:08:46.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
So you are a woman and you work in television, which is not generally thought of as being led by women predominantly.
00:08:50.57
Amanda Graham
yes
00:08:55.41
Amanda Graham
correct
00:08:55.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
How's that going?
00:08:59.18
Amanda Graham
um Well, it's funny because obviously this is the worst time, worst time to work in TV ever um in terms of the industry and and where it's going and the uncertainty. and And over here in the UK, it's been collapsing for about 10 years.
00:09:14.14
Amanda Graham
ah So it's already on its on its last legs. And and then working in in comedy, you know, only 10, well, they say 12 to 15% of comedy is written by women.
00:09:27.61
Amanda Graham
Um, and so it is definitely still an old boys club. Um, so it's tough. Um, but you have to go out of your way. i think a lot of different creative jobs to get your stuff made, get yourself out there, get your name done. And like that, you know, that's Steve Martin quote, you have to get, you have to be so good that it's, you're undeniable.
00:09:49.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
00:09:50.62
Amanda Graham
And, uh, and you know, whether you're a woman, a man or everyone in between, um you have to be good anyways, you know, unless your daddy works in comedy or whatever, you have to be good anyways, because the competition is so crazy. So it's, yeah, you're always going to get people who don't take you seriously. You're always going to get people who are like women aren't funny. You're always going to get all that. But I tend to just avoid people like that.
00:10:16.53
Amanda Graham
The beautiful thing about the internet, the beautiful thing about digital comedy and doing stuff online is you can pick your audience. You know, you don't need them to pay your bills.
00:10:25.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:10:27.24
Amanda Graham
And so thank God, because I would um imagine being a woman in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, trying to write comedy would have been a complete and total nightmare. So I count my blessings where I can.
00:10:38.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
I would think so. I mean, my goodness, I'm trying to think of British comedy-related women, and ah other than French and Saunders, I i got nothing.
00:10:49.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know?
00:10:49.24
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
00:10:49.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and Olivia Colman, who has done comedy, but
00:10:51.84
Amanda Graham
you
00:10:52.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
Certainly she's done lots of other stuff too. um So I would think, and this is really just a ah guess, but if you're working in something like sensitivity reading or being an advocate for vulnerable people in their representation, that seems like an area where women would be taken more seriously because it's a nurturing type job. Is that, am I onto something there?
00:11:20.56
Amanda Graham
That's interesting. I, you know, it's, um, I, I have done sensitivity reading before, and I do a lot of disability consulting for the TV industry, um, you know, being a disabled person. So, and, and being a dis disability advocate.
00:11:35.70
Amanda Graham
And I've been doing kind of inclusion and fighting for inclusion for almost 20 years, like almost as long as I've been in the industry for. it so I'm kind of used to that anyways. What I would say is not necessarily, um there are lots of different types of people who do sensitivity readings, but you're on to something when you talk about sensitivity um ah empathy driven or or that type because women you see a very high ratio of women working in TV who are doing things like production management production secretaries you know the the women who kind of keep the production running
00:12:17.87
Amanda Graham
uh, the admin side of things that I'm not trying to reduce production manager and admin. They're absolute goddesses.
00:12:23.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, no, that's the the organized...
00:12:24.43
Amanda Graham
They are the they're the, yeah, they are the powerhouse of every production.
00:12:25.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:12:29.66
Amanda Graham
What I'm talking about is how people perceive the role to be.
00:12:33.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:12:33.40
Amanda Graham
And so you do get a lot more of that. Um, and then you see, you see women more in, it and I'm only speaking in the UK, um, um You see them in a lot of educational programming. You see them in a lot of children's programming.
00:12:48.59
Amanda Graham
You see them in a lot of um documentary. Like when I worked in documentary for religion ethics, there was a lot of women there too. So it really just kind of depends.
00:12:59.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:13:00.28
Amanda Graham
Hmm.
00:13:00.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
So it's it sounds like there is a fair amount of of sexism to be contending with. um What about ageism? Okay.
00:13:10.23
Amanda Graham
are you kidding? The TV industry invented ageism. They invented it and then they perfected it. It's like, it's, It is, you are considered geriatric if you are over the age of 35, especially as a writer, which is crazy because the older you get, the richer your experiences and the more experiences you have to draw from.
00:13:32.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes.
00:13:35.04
Amanda Graham
So um absolutely. I was a late, i was ah like a late ah entry entry into, I think I was probably 36.
00:13:46.48
Amanda Graham
435 I entered the TV industry and um i and I had to do all the stuff, you know, the runner stuff, all the of you know digitizing tapes and answering letters from crazy people who wrote into songs of praise and doing, actually that was that was one of my favorite things to do.
00:14:04.95
Amanda Graham
But um ah but ah ah it was, so, you know, and I kind of did this thing where I ah did a willful, I am ignoring your ageism and, you know, okay, if if this door is closed to me, I'm going to find another door and enter another way.
00:14:05.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, I'm sure.
00:14:22.93
Amanda Graham
And when i so I started off in documentaries and and I wanted to get into comedy writing and I was on the the fifth floor, which is the factual floor of the BBC and all the cool kids were on the fourth floor.
00:14:35.75
Amanda Graham
Oh, the fourth floor of BBC comedy.
00:14:35.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh... ah
00:14:38.22
Amanda Graham
where all of my favorite shows were being made. So I would see them all on the yeah the lifts all the time or outside in the smoking shelter, you know, and I was insanely jealous. And it never occurred to me when I would go to the fourth floor, go, please let me, I will do anything on work on these shows. It never occurred to me they that they would go, but some weirdo, 35, 40 year old woman trying to be a runner on a show.
00:15:03.28
Amanda Graham
She's so weird. Like i think it never, i think it never occurred to them. Wow. She must really love comedy to be somebody who would be in their late thirties, like go and I'll do whatever it takes.
00:15:12.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:15:15.01
Amanda Graham
Um, but you know, so I had to go the long way around being older and, uh, and a woman. Um, and I didn't know at the time, but neurodivergent as well, but I had to go around the long way.
00:15:27.47
Amanda Graham
You know, I had to do stand up because they the BBC told me you have to do stand up to show us your series about comedy if if you want a break.
00:15:34.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
00:15:35.70
Amanda Graham
But I could tell you that half of the boys who were working on the fourth floor who were 19, 20 years old were not doing stand up. So was like, OK, but I did it. And that is how I got discovered.
00:15:46.90
Amanda Graham
And I didn't sell.
00:15:47.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:15:48.42
Amanda Graham
Yeah, I know. it was like really wild. And I didn't sell my first script until I was 41 or 42, which already breaks all the records. And um yeah, it's it's wild. It's it's crazy how how you have to fight for a place.
00:16:06.75
Amanda Graham
It really is. Mm-hmm.
00:16:08.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now, I want to point out something here. Just based on my own experience, and I'm American, so our our healthcare care system is way, way worse, and and people go undiagnosed for you know years and years.
00:16:16.76
Amanda Graham
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:16:20.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
But I didn't have the confidence to try to get professional-type work until I was almost 30.
00:16:31.95
Amanda Graham
okay
00:16:32.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, I mean, I was, I was working like low skill jobs and I have to think that that is not unique to me that for women in particular, and also neurodivergent women who were not diagnosed in, in childhood.
00:16:46.51
Amanda Graham
Yep.
00:16:46.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
That puts you at such a profound disadvantage in terms of that, in terms of just getting into the industry that you want to be in when you're still young enough to be taken seriously at it with less effort.
00:17:00.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
And as you pointed out, there are young men working in these industries that are just leaping over their prerequisites that other people are expected to to finish before they can be taken seriously.
00:17:11.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well,
00:17:12.32
Amanda Graham
Oh yeah. Yeah. I call it the.
00:17:14.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
and i
00:17:14.50
Amanda Graham
Sorry, go ahead, please.
00:17:16.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
I don't know if that is predominantly because of sexism or if it's there's a class issue there. um i don't know. In the UK, like because you have universal health care, are rich people still getting more and better treatment, earlier diagnoses, things like that?
00:17:34.03
Amanda Graham
Oh yeah. a hundred percent.
00:17:34.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
Or is it pretty much the same across the board?
00:17:34.59
Amanda Graham
one No, no, no. hundred percent. So I, I had to wait two and a half years for an assessment on a waiting list. So we do have free healthcare care here and it's amazing and it's saved my life. It's saved the lives of some of my friends and and whatever else, but we do have, um,
00:17:54.02
Amanda Graham
ah big waiting lists because the Tories have been, um were in power for 14 years and they cut the funding and started privatizing bits. And, um and so the, you know, the waiting lists have gone up. People have unfortunately died waiting for things.
00:18:10.88
Amanda Graham
um And so it's not perfect, but I remember when I was living in America, not being able, I, ah you know, I got stung by a scorpion. I couldn't afford the medication. So I had to just ride it out. My friend was a chef and I saw her put a accidentally, obviously a butcher knife by accident through her hand. She couldn't afford the healthcare. So she just had to let it heal. You know, like it, it,
00:18:37.84
Amanda Graham
I, you know, I, I, I would never complain about the waiting lists because at least you get seen here. And, um, I, I never, ever take that for granted.
00:18:49.00
Amanda Graham
I never take that for granted. I it's, it's the biggest, it's the biggest blessing. It really is.
00:18:55.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and that is one thing that I hear a lot from people that travel is that they've heard rumors about American health care, but being faced with it directly when it's you can be quite jarring.
00:19:04.08
Amanda Graham
Hmm.
00:19:08.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:19:09.15
Amanda Graham
Yeah. Yeah. it's um Yeah, people don't realize because there's only two, I think there's only two industrialized nations that don't have healthcare. care And I think that's the US and South Africa.
00:19:20.37
Amanda Graham
And so, um and I don't know if this it's that's like that in South Africa anymore. I know that that's the way it used to be. So I think because everybody ah in all of the other industrialized countries have it, and it's not ah ever an issue that you shouldn't have it, it is quite jarring to be somewhere where people can lose...
00:19:40.46
Amanda Graham
their everything, their livelihoods, their credit, their, their houses, their everything. um You know, if they're unfortunate enough to get, have a serious injury or get cancer or, or whatever else it's, it's, it's, it's horrible. It's, it's horrible.
00:19:56.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh yeah. i am I had a ah health issue in 2022.
00:20:00.90
Amanda Graham
Hmm.
00:20:01.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
um COVID knocked my heart off its rhythm and I just thought that I was dying. I didn't realize that I had something that could be fixed because I'm a fat chick. People have been telling me since childhood that my life is going to be short and not happy and whatever.
00:20:16.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
um So my husband and I argued about it for over a day. Long story short, I was there for 17 days and the first bill that I received, not counting the ambulances, because that's a separate company, $149,000 was the first bill that got. And the doctors say,
00:20:33.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
was was the first bill that we got um and the doctors say
00:20:37.94
Amanda Graham
How do you even do that? How do you do like talk, talk me through what your brain said to you when you saw that?
00:20:48.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, we just laughed. I mean, we're in an apartment.
00:20:50.43
Amanda Graham
Right.
00:20:51.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
We don't even own a car. We don't have, you know, if it was $149, that still would have created like, oh no, how are we going to work that out? But it was it was just ludicrous. Now, in the end, we did not have to pay it because we happen to be and poor people who live in a wealthy town.
00:21:12.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
So there was a charity program and in place for people like us. So the hospital worked it out, partly with the insurer, and then partly through this. Because, I mean, when the doctor in the emergency room found out that I waited two days to come in when I was clearly having a heart episode, he started lecturing me.
00:21:30.88
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
00:21:33.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
and I said we don't have any money. And he said, well, you almost had... He was ah like an African-sounding guy. He said, well, you almost had no life.
00:21:44.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, well... I don't know what to tell you, you know, because I mean, when I lived in a poorer part of Michigan, the hospital, they did, ah they called it a wallet biopsy where they, they look in your wallet.
00:21:48.66
Amanda Graham
yeah
00:22:00.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
They just help themselves to see whether or not you have an insurance card. And if you don't have one, they either, they, they won't admit you like they'll take you in emergency because they have to, but you won't get a room.
00:22:05.28
Amanda Graham
mmm mmm
00:22:11.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
If you need to stay, if you need more treatment, They'll help you get an appointment that they know you almost certainly won't go to because, again, if you don't have insurance, you can't be seen by these people.
00:22:23.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Or if your insurance sucks, like we have UHC for insurance, and they are awful. Awful. You know, they don't want to cover the machine I use at night so I don't die from not breathing in my sleep.
00:22:35.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
They don't want to cover that machine. Yeah.
00:22:37.28
Amanda Graham
Oh my God. Yeah, that's, that's wild.
00:22:40.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:22:43.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:22:43.81
Amanda Graham
I mean, I, I.
00:22:44.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and they charge us so much money for the premiums. Not only that, but for reasons that no one can adequately explain to me, in order for me to be on my husband's insurance, we have to pay an entire family plan.
00:22:57.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
There used to be a plan just for two adults, but now it's a family plan. So we're paying to insure children that don't even exist, and they still don't want to cover us. I don't fully understand why health insurance exists, because it just seems to be a middleman to give people less, you know?
00:23:18.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
But then i say, well, why do I even have insurance? And then I get my monthly prescriptions and realize that it's, you know, $120 instead of $2,000 because of what they charge for medications.
00:23:28.41
Amanda Graham
a Yeah. Yeah, I guess it it it's beyond racket, hon.
00:23:32.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
So it's quite a racket.
00:23:36.80
Amanda Graham
Not it's a horror film. Actually, it's a horror film is what it is.
00:23:43.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. So yeah, so that's what we live with. And, ah you know, every once in a while, we get a Democrat that says universal health care and people fight with everything inside them to make sure that we don't get universal health care, presumably for the donors.
00:23:58.84
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
00:24:00.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I mean, the reason that that all started here was Richard Nixon, because until Richard Nixon, it was against the law to make a profit on health care.
00:24:05.92
Amanda Graham
All right.
00:24:13.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
And he had donors with Kaiser Permanente, were one of his biggest donors. And so he, as a favor to them, said, we'll let people make a little bit of a profit on health care.
00:24:25.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I think there might have been a cap on it back in the day, but I don't believe that there is a cap on it now. Because, I mean, medical supply places will find out what your insurance deductible is, charge you $10 than that,
00:24:41.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then charge the insurance company about the same. So they're basically double charging for a lot of different kinds of medical equipment.
00:24:49.95
Amanda Graham
ah just Oh, the whole thing is just diabolical.
00:24:54.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
It really is. so And it's it's only going to get worse here. Because, ah you know, the the Orange Menace just took almost half a million people off of And...
00:25:00.78
Amanda Graham
and
00:25:04.99
Amanda Graham
Yeah, we've we've been watching it just yeah, I'm genuinely concerned for some of my friends who are in the states.
00:25:05.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
and
00:25:15.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and I actually am starting to wonder how much they they want this, how much they want old people to die. Because Trump's handling of COVID would suggest that he would prefer that the old and sick just be wiped out.
00:25:29.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that's what taking away SSI does. That's what shrinking Medicaid does. um You know, all this business with the vaccinations and not having... I mean, Florida, of all places, where old people go to, like...
00:25:44.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
chill for their final days they want to release a bunch of unvaccinated children on them I mean that's your your intentions can't possibly be good if that's what you think you want
00:25:56.15
Amanda Graham
No, I couldn't agree more. And, you know, it's really funny Wednesday say because the older I get, um and I have learned this lesson the hard way, um that you have to go by people's actions and not what they say. And I'm sorry, you can say all you want in the world, but if your actions are to make things more unsafe for people and ah to make things more dangerous and to make life harder to live, then I'm going to make that presumption. And I don't really care what you say.
00:26:24.89
Amanda Graham
like you know, to, to contradict that. I don't care. You know, if you, yeah, if you don't want people to think that about you, then don't do those things.
00:26:29.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, but that's fair.
00:26:37.12
Amanda Graham
That's it.
00:26:37.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep, I agree.
00:26:37.68
Amanda Graham
So, yeah.
00:26:39.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and that's the thing. i Every so often, one of the the worst of the worst of those alt-right, terrible people dies. you know Rush Limbaugh or ah you know people like that.
00:26:50.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then people say, oh, how could you speak ill of the dead? That's so awful. And I've had it with that, don't speak ill of the dead. If you want to be spoken of well after you die, don't be a piece of shit who hurts people for money.
00:27:03.94
Amanda Graham
Yeah, I literally have that in my book. I'm like, I i strongly, i suspect that people who say you shouldn't speak ill of the dead know that when they die, people are going to speak ill of them.
00:27:14.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, yeah. So... Moving on to something. Okay, this isn't really a question, but you've met Olivia Colman.
00:27:21.06
Amanda Graham
Okay.
00:27:24.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
You're like working with her on a project.
00:27:24.23
Amanda Graham
I have.
00:27:26.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
She's she's amazing in real life, right?
00:27:28.51
Amanda Graham
Okay, um so do you want to know how ah how that happened or just about her?
00:27:32.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
Please.
00:27:33.07
Amanda Graham
Okay, so um it's really funny. So I um had, okay, so basically my comedy is like really weird and kind of freaky and really dark and and whatever else. And so it's very, like people either love it or hate it And um I remember right before the lockdown, right before um COVID happened, I had written my, but what we call in the industry, am allowed to swear?
00:27:56.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes.
00:27:57.43
Amanda Graham
Yeah, okay, what we're what we call in the industry, my your fuck it script, right? That's the the one where the one that's dying to get out of you, much like the alien and the chest. You know, the one that's like, but just dying get out of So I wrote it and it's called How Heather Survived the Apocalypse. And it's about my time in a cult, because i was in a...
00:28:15.09
Amanda Graham
I was in a kind of dispensationalist, apocalyptic church when I was young and it was horrific. And we'll be talking about that later on. But um ah anyway, I wrote a comedy about, as you do, comedy.
00:28:27.13
Amanda Graham
and um i And so when the lockdown happened and obviously our industry shut and all the writers were like, well, what do we do?
00:28:27.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right. Mm-hmm.
00:28:35.06
Amanda Graham
So we all started exchanging each other scripts and reading each other's scripts, like between London and ah New York and L.A. And so ah i I sent my script to probably about 10 different writers in l L.A. or people you know people who ran production companies. And everybody's like, this is great, but weird. Or people were going, this is amazing, but I have no power in the industry, shut down and whatever else. said So I was like getting all no's.
00:29:01.03
Amanda Graham
So me being me, um I went, okay, well, I'll just have to do something that nobody else does. I'll i'll figure out, I'm going to find my director first. So instead, and so I, long story short, i found my dream comedy director and snagged him and I got him.
00:29:17.83
Amanda Graham
And now he's one of my partners. But anyways, I had decided, i was like, I don't know why, but I just think Olivia Colman needs to read this. And I don't even know how to get this to her. And so then somebody had mentioned she has an indie now, like an independent production company.
00:29:31.95
Amanda Graham
But when you go on their website, it's it's one page and it says, we do not accept unsolicited scripts.
00:29:36.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right, right.
00:29:36.70
Amanda Graham
So I was like, okay, so I don't know what to do. And my agent was like, oh, well, we'll just have wait something else. and i was like, okay. So um then and I helped a woman who I know who's on one of my talent cohorts and and her name is Charlie. She's lovely.
00:29:52.81
Amanda Graham
And she um was... She worked in documentaries, but she wanted to give comedy script writing a try. So I said, let me have your script. I will read and give you notes. Anyways, so I was doing that.
00:30:05.07
Amanda Graham
And she said, what are you writing right now? I mentioned to her everything I just told you. And she said, oh, she's like, our friend and is working. Somebody else in our cohort is working for South of the River.
00:30:18.56
Amanda Graham
Why don't you just get in touch with her? And I was like, you are messing. And she's like, no
00:30:23.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure.
00:30:24.32
Amanda Graham
So I was like, that's weird. So i I emailed her and I said, hi, um this is weird, but I have something that I think she would like.
00:30:35.36
Amanda Graham
Do you want to read it? She's like, yeah. She said, shoot it over. So I shoot it over. She goes, now give me like a month. And that's pretty common Wednesday, like ah couple months not to read a script is pretty common over here.
00:30:42.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
sure
00:30:45.46
Amanda Graham
She calls me hours later. Oh my God, I couldn't help but peek. It's one of the best scripts I've ever read. um And then, yeah.
00:30:54.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh my gosh.
00:30:56.18
Amanda Graham
And then that was a Friday. They had a meeting about my script over the weekend. And by the Monday, they sent me an offer for the option. And, um but they were like, but I, but they were like, but we, but she wants, but Olivia wants you to write a part for her.
00:31:12.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
00:31:13.65
Amanda Graham
So I was like, I know, I know.
00:31:13.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
What?
00:31:15.67
Amanda Graham
So I was like, okay, um that's cool. and And so I did. And and obviously my director partner um was on board. So it was crazy because I'm working with my dream comedy director who's directed everything I've ever loved and who loves my script and loves me. And we get on like a house on fire and now Olivia Colm and he's directed Olivia in like three different shows.
00:31:42.03
Amanda Graham
So, and, and, and so I was like, this is too good. This is too good. This is too much. So I wrote the part for her and I would see her cause her husband ah runs, you know, runs the indie.
00:31:55.15
Amanda Graham
And so we would have these, zooms to go over script the script and talk about the the the deck and the pitch and everything. And I would see her in the background and be like, Oh my God, it Olivia Colton. Oh my God, it was Olivia Colton.
00:32:06.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
you
00:32:06.36
Amanda Graham
And they're very excited, but like, be cool, be cool. Don't be a dick, you know, be cool.
00:32:09.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
and
00:32:10.31
Amanda Graham
And, and then i got invited to, they had done a show called the landscapers, which is amazing. I don't know what it would, maybe sky in America. I'm i'm not sure, but it was so good anyways.
00:32:23.79
Amanda Graham
So we got invited to the premiere. And ah so the woman, the my development producer, the one who was in my talent cohort who brought the script to her in the first place, ah she she was like, oh, you get to meet her tonight. And I was like, no
00:32:38.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:32:38.25
Amanda Graham
So I brought my friend, one of my best friends for emotional support and and we went. And so it's very, you can imagine it's a big you know premiere. There's a big red carpet.
00:32:50.31
Amanda Graham
We were not allowed on the red carpet. The only people who were allowed on red carpet, because it was a huge event.
00:32:53.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
00:32:55.95
Amanda Graham
The only people who were allowed you know on the red carpet were like the people related to the show, obviously, because it was a premiere. So anyways, ah so we go to see the first episode. It's in a big, huge theater. And then um like outside of the theater is a massive, huge, great room.
00:33:12.31
Amanda Graham
And there's beautiful cocktails and lovely canapes. It's like really cool cocktail stuff. It was very cool. Anyways, she's around a corner. And um I'm, I'm like, I was like, go talk to her for God's sake, go talk to her So was like, I can't, I can't.
00:33:27.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right?
00:33:29.33
Amanda Graham
Wednesday i was like, cannot.
00:33:29.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:33:31.17
Amanda Graham
And it's funny because usually I don't, i've been in the TV industry forever. You know, I don't usually get starstruck very often. um But anyways, they're like, oh, for God's sake, just go. And so they pushed me and I went. And let me tell you something about her. So she was kind of surrounded by people, but around like this little corner. So you couldn't see her in the main bit of the room.
00:33:53.08
Amanda Graham
Right. And it was quite dark around this kind of screen thing. And she was teeny, teeny. So um she was ah I'm short. I'm 5'4", right? So she must have been well, she had heels on, but like just this tiny frame, tiny, tiny, tiny.
00:34:14.25
Amanda Graham
She had on a very glamorous um jumpsuit that had
00:34:14.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh. Hmm.
00:34:21.64
Amanda Graham
Marabou, no, it was a Marabou. No, it was ostrich feather around the bell sleeves, all black V neck, um, all ah bell sleeves with huge ostrich feathers around. And I can't remember if she had them around her neck.
00:34:36.88
Amanda Graham
She made it. I'll have to see the photos. Um, I'll have to look at the photos, but she had on these huge, um, ah False eyelashes, enormous false eyelashes.
00:34:47.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:34:48.16
Amanda Graham
I don't know how she kept her eyes open because I'm the kind of person that like if I put them on my eyes, just water continually, you know, like even the light ones.
00:34:55.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
00:34:56.29
Amanda Graham
So I was like insanely jealous.
00:34:56.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:34:58.53
Amanda Graham
And so I was very nervous and i was like, oh, hi. I was like, um, Hi, I'm Amanda Graham. I'm the one who wrote How Heather Survived the Apocalypse. And she just went like this. Oh, my gosh. She slapped her hands to together. She went, oh, my God. god I love that script. Thank you so much.
00:35:14.48
Amanda Graham
And so she gives me a hug. And I was like, this is so weird. And so she's talking to me about my script. And it was weird because I was kind of frozen and I didn't know what to do.
00:35:28.52
Amanda Graham
And so then instead of me going, but we're not here to talk about that, Olivia Coleman, we're here to talk about the landscapers. You did an amazing job. No, I just decided talk about script for like five minutes, very nervously.
00:35:40.67
Amanda Graham
And so she's just standing there.
00:35:42.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:35:43.85
Amanda Graham
She's just standing there so patiently nodding her head, but she could see her wheels going, oh, is this going to be a whole long conversation? And bless her. and um and then i went but And then I went, wait a minute, sorry, I've been talking too much about me.
00:35:56.67
Amanda Graham
um anyway congratulations and then she went oh there it is
00:36:01.92
Amanda Graham
exactly in the middle of the sentence it was the most olivia coleman thing to say and in the middle of my sentence i burst out laughing i was like i apologize i'm just a little nervous and very overwhelmed by the fact you like my script Because usually people go, what is this? I don't know what to do with this.
00:36:18.31
Amanda Graham
So, um yeah. So, no, she was really, it was very funny. And my my friend who came with me and another friend who was there, two just happened to be there the same night. We were all, like, kind of hanging out and talking to her. It was pretty cool. It was pretty cool. And her husband is amazing, too. Like, I love working with him.
00:36:36.92
Amanda Graham
And he's an insanely talented writer as well. Like, just wonderful writer. So, yeah. of just a really cool
00:36:44.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
That must just feel so surreal to just meet someone like that and have them want to talk about your work. I mean, that's, I keep waiting for that to happen to me as a writer and it it kind of hasn't yet.
00:36:58.61
Amanda Graham
and No, but I'm so, no, you know what, Wednesday, I'm so glad you said yet because, you know, it took me 10 years.
00:36:59.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
Um,
00:37:07.60
Amanda Graham
Let's see, more five, 10. ten ah No, took me about eight years to get to that point. Now we are talking eight full-time years, you know, um and except at the beginning, I i was, ah you know, I had, I could, I had a broken toilet, a broken oven, you know, I was,
00:37:27.92
Amanda Graham
sacrificing to focus on my writing and get better and get better and had thousands of rejection, thousands of rejections. And so, you know, first to have,
00:37:41.95
Amanda Graham
my director partner call me from LA and go, who are you? I've never met you before. What the hell? I love your writing. i was like, Oh my God. And then to have her on top of that, it was the most surreal year, the most surreal year of of my life. I couldn't, you just get so used to being told no, that you just don't know how to handle being told yes, it's like a, almost like a fight, flight or freeze thing.
00:38:14.84
Amanda Graham
I still, I'm reliving it as I'm talking right now.
00:38:15.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, because...
00:38:17.68
Amanda Graham
And it's, it's so odd. I don't think you ever get used to it.
00:38:25.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, the thing is that there has to be a certain vulnerability there because when you put so much of yourself into a piece of writing and then have people that you respect and admire say, i get this.
00:38:41.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
They're pretty much saying they get you. You know, it's like it's you it's an instant bond of like when you find something funny and someone else laughs at it, your first impulse is to be like, those are my people. Those are my friends because they're the people that get what I think is funny.
00:38:58.55
Amanda Graham
yeah
00:38:59.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
And the more obscure it is and the more pointed it is, the more it it says about, ah you know, about ourselves and our society, the the more relevant it is, the more that means when somebody else gets it.
00:39:14.55
Amanda Graham
You know, I love that you said that. And I'll tell you why. Because, oh, God, so true, Wednesday. It really is what you just said. Because um I remember when I first started writing, and I'm sure that you and maybe quite a lot of your audience, whether it's writing or something else, can really relate to this, but any creatives really.
00:39:32.40
Amanda Graham
We spend all of our time trying to fit in to, you know, places that already exist. So for me, I was always trying to prove myself to the BBC, you know, like hire me.
00:39:42.92
Amanda Graham
um I'm really good at writing comedy. And I was always like trying to bend and twist myself, you know, to show that I was good enough to work for them. And I did that for years. And, know,
00:39:54.83
Amanda Graham
And what i what I didn't realize until later on, and Brene Brown talks about this, I couldn't put my, I didn't have a word for this, but she said, instead of trying to fit in, we need to find the people who we naturally belong to.
00:40:09.52
Amanda Graham
You know, the people who get who we are, our weirdness and everything we have to offer, we should never have to sell ourselves to people.
00:40:10.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:40:17.52
Amanda Graham
And when I made that shift from going, you know what? all right, BBC, you beat me, I give up, I'm done. What I'm gonna do, you know, when I decided to find that director and and whatever else was, I'm going to find the people who make the content that I adore.
00:40:33.64
Amanda Graham
and I'm gonna know everything about them. and And because if they make content I adore, the chances are they're gonna like the stuff that I like because we already have all this, you know, stuff in common, I already get them.
00:40:45.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right, right. right
00:40:48.29
Amanda Graham
So, and that has changed everything for me. That has changed everything for me. I don't care about trying to fit in anymore. I don't care. Like I have stopped, you know, begging for meetings. I have stopped begging to be on projects. I have stopped even answering emails from specific channels because I'm like, you're not my people.
00:41:11.25
Amanda Graham
You're not my people. And I'm not going to get, you know, fall into that trap of, um, of becoming a pretzel again. I'm not doing it. and And so I love that you said that because you you know it already on ah you know on on your own level, on your own personal level.
00:41:29.57
Amanda Graham
it's the biggest It's one of the biggest mind shifts that we can do. And it and not not not even about creativity, but just in our lives, whether it's romantically, friends, or whatever else is, we have got to stop trying to fit in because it is a battle we can never you know, win because there are people who, well, first of all, people going to like us or not like us, but there are people who are committed to misunderstanding us and they are committed to misunderstanding the things that we want to say and the things that are important to us.
00:41:53.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
but
00:41:58.07
Amanda Graham
So why on earth are we expecting them to open their doors wide for us? I wouldn't open my doors for them.
00:42:06.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and ah something like the BBC is an entity. An entity is like that.
00:42:11.62
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
00:42:12.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
They're made of people, but the people aren't beholden to themselves. They're beholden to the entity.
00:42:17.87
Amanda Graham
Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:19.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, I mean, because novelists certainly go through that as well. I spent a few years pitching to big houses and they don't even want you to pitch if you don't have an agent.
00:42:29.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
And so you pitch to agents and they say, well, you don't have an offer. Why would I want that?
00:42:35.96
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
00:42:36.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, you know, and it becomes this whole thing. And I said, well, you know what, what are my favorite books? What are my favorite books that have come out in the last 10 years?
00:42:44.99
Amanda Graham
Mm-hmm.
00:42:45.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I looked to see who published them. And that was who I pitched to. And that went much better for me than just looking at houses and saying, oh, wouldn't it be prestigious to be accepted by that house?
00:42:57.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
It was more like this person cares about what I'm writing. They see the vision in this. You know, that's that's who I want to handle it. And it turned out it was a really small house who couldn't do a whole lot for me, like in terms of marketing.
00:43:12.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
But the validation, I think, of of having someone who published people that I really respect and admire I found that validating enough that I felt more motivated to to market my own work and to have confidence when I say, yeah, it's it's a good book.
00:43:32.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
it's It's doing well in the industry.
00:43:32.80
Amanda Graham
Mm-hmm.
00:43:33.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like I was in an anthology with Jack Ketchum, who is is no longer with us. And I was always too cowardly to contact him when he was still around. But for me, that was so...
00:43:45.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
validating And I don't necessarily know if it's good that I get validation that way because some people say, oh, well, the work should should validate you or you don't need validation. And yeah, I'm fucked up.
00:43:56.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'm mentally and emotionally fucked up and I do need validation because I can't always see things clearly. and so
00:44:04.49
Amanda Graham
Well, okay, that makes sense. And there's nothing wrong with a little bit of needing validation. We're, you know, as humans, we're built to, you know, to focus on community.
00:44:16.99
Amanda Graham
and um and and And as early humans, we needed validation, we needed acceptance to survive. And so that that isn't going anywhere. That's still way in the amygdala. And, you know, like but that's a very hard thing to to get around.
00:44:28.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
Totally.
00:44:33.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, the key seems to be where you get your validation from. Do you want to get it from some entity that may or may not even be what you think it is?
00:44:38.53
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
00:44:44.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
Or do you want a person that you respect to respect you back?
00:44:48.49
Amanda Graham
Mm-hmm.
00:44:48.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
And so if I readjust my expectations, which I eventually did, and said, well, here are some writers that I admire. I'm going to send them my work and see what they say about it.
00:44:59.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
And i got friendly with a guy named Alistair Cross, who I think is a fantastic writer and ah and a really ace human being. And then he read my work and he liked it so that it was so much more meaningful than hearing from a big six house and Joe Schmo, whoever, you know, because if I don't know you, why would I care what you think, you know?
00:45:17.60
Amanda Graham
Yep.
00:45:20.42
Amanda Graham
Yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah. That that makes like total sense.
00:45:26.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
So...
00:45:26.66
Amanda Graham
And I love that for you. I'm glad you're getting, um ah no, I'm always rooting writers on, you know, like we we got to be there for each other.
00:45:28.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:45:33.12
Amanda Graham
And I think it's really cool that you're getting, you can you could go for years on ah on a compliment from someone you care about. Like you really can.
00:45:39.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right?
00:45:40.56
Amanda Graham
And that's human. That's okay. 100%.
00:45:42.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and we humans gotta stick together now that we're literally like battling the machines. I mean, AI wants all our jobs.
00:45:47.23
Amanda Graham
Yeah. Yeah.
00:45:51.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
So let me ask you this.
00:45:51.71
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
00:45:53.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now, you have been a sensitivity reader reader and you have also worked with ah ah just on helping shows be more accurate in terms of depicting neurodivergence.
00:45:56.16
Amanda Graham
Yes.
00:46:06.16
Amanda Graham
yes
00:46:06.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
um I definitely want to talk about that and I want to start with ah the question of ah who do you think is doing a good job with that right now?
00:46:16.75
Amanda Graham
Okay. I'm going to say something controversial. Um, with the except with the exception, the only show that I've ever, now it could be that I have not seen show ah you, your audience might go, but what about this film or show?
00:46:21.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
Ooh.
00:46:32.85
Amanda Graham
And i I might not have seen it. So I haven't seen every TV show or film that's ever been made, but I think.
00:46:38.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
it
00:46:38.88
Amanda Graham
With the exception of The Cleaner, ah which is Greg Davey's show, he has ah an autistic character on, which I think is one of the most perfect, beautifully written and
00:46:55.72
Amanda Graham
representations of a neurodivergent character. I think most all of the... the neurodivergent characters we see on TV and film. it It sucks. The representation sucks and I hate it.
00:47:09.03
Amanda Graham
However, what I will say is neurodivergent coded characters are usually much better representations than the autistic doctor or, you know, whatever else. so um So that that's what I would say. If if you, generally speaking,
00:47:31.41
Amanda Graham
if you have a character or a show that's like, Ooh, or a film that's like, Ooh, this is a film about an autistic man. And ah you know, the rain man or whatever you want to say, like, i just, that kind of shit drives me crazy.
00:47:44.30
Amanda Graham
But if neurodivergent coded is things like, but like new girl and house and Abed and community and everybody on adventure time, ah you know, like there are,
00:47:51.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
00:47:55.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah yeah
00:47:58.32
Amanda Graham
clearly coded characters that are written so accurately and so wonderfully. And so ah so my answer is for the most part, like atypical stuff like that, forget it, forget it.
00:48:15.83
Amanda Graham
I can't, I can't handle it, but, um, but, but I do love my neurodivergent characters that are what I consider exceptionally divergent and ones I relate to. I don't know. What do you think?
00:48:29.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
um I think, well, my favorite TV portrayal of an autistic person by a wide margin is Dexter, but they never actually say it.
00:48:38.52
Amanda Graham
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. See that's neurodivergent coded.
00:48:40.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
00:48:41.92
Amanda Graham
That's what I'm talking about.
00:48:42.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes.
00:48:43.37
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
00:48:43.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because I think once you, once a show or a movie states what the condition is, it seems like rather than depicting it accurately...
00:48:54.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
They want to depict it in a way that an audience can say, oh I recognize that as that disorder because that's what I've always heard.
00:48:54.90
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
00:49:02.71
Amanda Graham
yeah
00:49:02.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
And we all know that the the everybody knows philosophy is is not as accurate as we would like to think.
00:49:11.55
Amanda Graham
Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. And I think like, and the boy, the, the, the quote unquote out autistic characters on TV, they lean into so many stereotypes and it's really difficult.
00:49:23.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:49:24.88
Amanda Graham
Like, oh my God, like ah what was that comedy? I can't remember. I was so mad. Was it called roommates or something like that? yeah, The guy couldn't walk down the sidewalk without freaking out. Now, I am not saying that there aren't autistic people who get sensory overwhelm, you know, but what I'm saying is if every single representative of an quote unquote autistic character is we get hit by cars. Yes, I have been hit by a car, but that is not the point. That is not the point.
00:49:51.48
Amanda Graham
The point is that like,
00:49:51.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
Bye.
00:49:53.43
Amanda Graham
The point is that like, ah you know, we all get hit by cars all the time. None of us are capable of having any type of relationship. um You know, we we we freak out over everything.
00:50:05.00
Amanda Graham
I don't know how that does us. good. I don't know how that does us good. And I don't know how that shows the world that when you meet one autistic person, you only meet one autistic person because we are all different. And it just that kind of stuff just drives me crazy.
00:50:22.55
Amanda Graham
But I love that you said Dexter.
00:50:22.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, yeah.
00:50:23.83
Amanda Graham
I love that you said Dexter. i never thought about that. And obviously he is so yeah, that's brilliant. I never thought of that. Yeah, I love that.
00:50:34.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I think, well, what you're saying actually makes a lot of sense because what I think is one of the biggest problems that humans have in terms of interpersonal relationships is that, and and just interpersonal communication,
00:50:46.95
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
00:50:50.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
is that we want to tell other people what their experience is.
00:50:54.34
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
00:50:54.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, a woman can go online and say, i was on the bus and this man said this to me and I was really uncomfortable. So I was watching around to make sure I wasn't being followed on my way home.
00:51:05.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
Something very simple, something a lot of people have gone through and yet total strangers will say, oh, were you rude?
00:51:07.12
Amanda Graham
yeah
00:51:13.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, did you flirt? Oh, this and that. And just completely discounting what this person is trying to say. And I think for the neurodivergent, when you say to someone, oh, I have ADHD or I have autism, first of all, they'll regard it as, oh, you're just making an excuse, as if you owe anyone an explanation.
00:51:20.49
Amanda Graham
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:32.16
Amanda Graham
yeah
00:51:34.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
um But also this sense of, oh, well, I knew someone else who had this and they didn't act like that, so you must be lying.
00:51:41.50
Amanda Graham
yeah
00:51:41.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
And we need to have more faith in each other than that. You know, we're we're so bad at just listening and believing we shouldn't be waiting for an Epstein list.
00:51:48.22
Amanda Graham
yeah
00:51:53.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
Those girls, those women can tell us all that information.
00:51:55.42
Amanda Graham
Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:58.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
and yet, how many people are still sure that it's all a big set? Like, there are people that still think he didn't do it.
00:52:07.10
Amanda Graham
yeah
00:52:07.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
And i I can't imagine how he got there. Like, he has said that he harasses and assaults women. He's said it. So... What are we still doing here? But I don't i don't want to get too far off the the track here.
00:52:23.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Your diagnosis is AUD, ADHD with autism is is what that is, which it looks like that's probably the diagnosis I should have gotten in childhood.
00:52:24.74
Amanda Graham
Yeah, no, I got it.
00:52:37.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
um When were you first diagnosed?
00:52:40.50
Amanda Graham
ah So I was diagnosed autistic um three, but no, three weeks, four weeks into lockdown. Can you imagine? So I had to, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:52:49.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow, so really recently.
00:52:51.59
Amanda Graham
I was 49.
00:52:54.13
Amanda Graham
nine
00:52:55.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:52:56.33
Amanda Graham
48 or 49. And what's funny is, it it was really funny because, and I think this is a joke for everybody in the neurodivergent, well, especially autistics and ADHD, but especially autistics, is that um they what they do is they, you know, they ask you a million questions and then they talk to like your family and your friends and and and preferably you friend a couple of friends from childhood and whatever else.
00:53:14.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:53:22.53
Amanda Graham
But because we tend to come from families that are neurodivergent. And also we tend to gravitate toward other neurodivergence in like with long-term friendships.
00:53:34.22
Amanda Graham
They don't know that they think it's weird. we're going for an assessment. So everybody was like, why do you think you're autistic? That's so weird. But everybody's... Everybody who was in my assessment has all been diagnosed either ADHD, ADHD, or, ah or autistic since then. So, but they all were like, why are you doing that? Everything you do is so normal.
00:53:56.89
Amanda Graham
And i was like, I know it's so odd, but anyway.
00:53:59.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and to put that into something maybe a little more accessible when you have an alcoholic, but all of their friends are also alcoholics and no one realizes it.
00:54:09.03
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
00:54:11.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it's like, do you guys think I might have a problem? No, no, you drink about the same as everybody else.
00:54:14.57
Amanda Graham
No, you're fine. you
00:54:17.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, if you're an alcoholic, then we're all alcoholics. Like, yeah.
00:54:20.43
Amanda Graham
Absolutely. It's perfect, it's that's the perfect example.
00:54:20.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:54:22.61
Amanda Graham
And what was so funny was, you know, so I did all this and then, so I waited for the phone call. Normally you would go in, but because of lockdown that they had to call me and they were like, um so they were like, ah oh yeah, you're, you're absolutely autistic.
00:54:31.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right, right.
00:54:35.94
Amanda Graham
We're sending you the, the report and everything else. And like, oh, okay. And, ah and they're like, we knew within like 10 or 15 minutes. And I was like, oh, that's very interesting. Yeah. um Can I ask why er how? and And they went, oh, well, because when you ah when we started the assessment, you didn't ask us how we were. And I was like, what?
00:54:57.64
Amanda Graham
And they were like, yeah, you didn't ask us how we were doing turn the questions back on us at any time or anything else. And I was like, but when. we sat down and you said, okay, we're going to go through like 200 questions. So answer the first thing that comes to mind. And if you need clarification, ask, but that's what we're going to do.
00:55:16.50
Amanda Graham
We ask the questions and you just answer them in this way. And and they're like, yeah.
00:55:19.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
00:55:20.07
Amanda Graham
And I was like, so you didn't tell me to answer anything back. You just said, I just followed the instructions. And they're like, yeah. And I was like, wait, wait a So yeah,
00:55:30.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, that that seems to be it.
00:55:30.36
Amanda Graham
so
00:55:31.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
That seems to be like, if you're autistic, you do things in a way that makes sense. And you're not looking for like invisible reasons to do other weird things that no one asked for.
00:55:37.45
Amanda Graham
Well, yeah.
00:55:42.76
Amanda Graham
I was like, Wednesday, I was like, I was like, wait a minute. So you didn't want me to disagree or to disobey your instructions during an assessment.
00:55:53.85
Amanda Graham
I was supposed to somehow know that I was supposed to interrupt the assessment to ask how you're doing. Okay.
00:56:03.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now, I think...
00:56:04.00
Amanda Graham
And they were like, that's yeah, there that's how we knew you're artistic. And I was like, this is, and that was like my welcome to neurodivergence moments.
00:56:14.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, but hold up, though, because the thing is...
00:56:14.43
Amanda Graham
Welcome. Yeah.
00:56:17.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
If you are a child who grew up in an abusive home, that's going to have the same result.
00:56:21.30
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
00:56:23.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
You don't interrupt people.
00:56:24.49
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
00:56:25.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
You don't do something that you were not asked to do.
00:56:25.56
Amanda Graham
yeah yeah
00:56:27.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
You don't...
00:56:28.52
Amanda Graham
yeah
00:56:28.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because, like, that's, I think, one of the reasons that my autism was missed. Because ADHD in girls, they didn't know how to diagnose in the 70s, but they were understanding things about the autism spectrum.
00:56:36.77
Amanda Graham
Mm-hmm.
00:56:43.14
Amanda Graham
yeah
00:56:43.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
But my mom was a well-known crazy pants. So people knew that she was hitting us. So a lot of people just said, oh, well, yeah, of course, she's kind of messed up. They're they're hitting her.
00:56:54.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
um So I wonder, like, what the the crossover is there, like how that impacts people getting diagnosed properly.
00:57:04.48
Amanda Graham
Oh, definitely. I mean, you know, my mom, same thing. And plus, we were in the cult church, you know, like I never questioned authority or whatever. But I don't know if when I had the assessment, if that was a subconscious thing or it just didn't make any, you know, if someone's assessing you, like if you go to the hospital and and you've broken your leg, you don't say to the doctor, how's your leg?
00:57:24.35
Amanda Graham
like It's just not something that you do because you're being assessed.
00:57:25.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
00:57:29.53
Amanda Graham
So that's the whole point of meeting. So it wasn't like I was worried about like but not following the instructions. It just didn't make any logical sense to me. So, you know, to, to not follow the instructions because I was getting assessed and that was the whole point of the freaking thing, the conversation in the first place.
00:57:49.32
Amanda Graham
But I think you're right though. I think that Venn diagram is a perfect circle of girls that aren't, you know, aren't assessed that are ah raised by someone off authoritarian.
00:57:55.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:58:00.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
Did you ever get the sense that like... i oh my gosh, I'm losing my train of thought because somebody's at my door and I'm not going to answer it because why would I? Well, if I'm not expecting you, I'm not...
00:58:12.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, I just don't.
00:58:12.38
Amanda Graham
I'm amen, amen, amen. I don't, amen.
00:58:17.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:58:18.25
Amanda Graham
I love you.
00:58:22.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
um yeah I'm trying to get my train of thought back because I had a relevant question.
00:58:27.54
Amanda Graham
Well, we're talking about the authoritarian thing with undiagnosed girls.
00:58:33.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right. So... i guess Girls in particular, i think, might be less likely to be diagnosed as... i mean, unless you have... Because if you're a girl, like, I know girls that were diagnosed with oppositional defiance disorder.
00:58:50.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then when you dig deeper into it, it's like, oh, so they weren't putting up with assholes.
00:58:56.18
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
00:58:56.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know? Because boys don't get...
00:58:57.89
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
00:58:58.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
that Unless a boy is very violent, chances are they don't get diagnosed with that. But girls that are, you know, difficult and argumentative... Like, I'm not entirely sure that's a mental condition.
00:59:11.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
That might be an atmospheric condition where you are responding to being surrounded by people who suck.
00:59:11.78
Amanda Graham
Yeah, no, no, definitely.
00:59:18.75
Amanda Graham
Oh my God. Totally. Couldn't agree more. Couldn't agree more.
00:59:22.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
So I wonder if you have ideas for what ah might be ways that women and girls can better advocate for themselves and and seek out those those kind of diagnoses.
00:59:36.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, how do you know if you need to seek out a diagnosis?
00:59:36.81
Amanda Graham
Okay.
00:59:39.87
Amanda Graham
I mean, well, obviously one thing, the first thing that helps is if you do have anybody in your family who's been diagnosed with anything, you know, like whether it's dyslexia, like, you know, the, the neurodivergent conditions that are less about the sensory things, but they're always cop co-occurring, aren't they usually?
00:59:57.45
Amanda Graham
ah But, you know, things like dyslexia tend tend to be diagnosed first or Tourette's or or whatever else. and But I would say so, you know, obviously look at that kind of stuff.
01:00:03.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:00:07.87
Amanda Graham
But really, i would tell everyone whether, you know, no matter what their gender um is to if you suspect that you're neurodivergent, hang out with as many neurodivergent people as possible.
01:00:23.14
Amanda Graham
you know, start building those social relationships, whether they're online or in person. um Because first of all, if you are neurodivergent, you need to, you need to be in a safe environment where people understand you and you are not masking 24 seven.
01:00:38.06
Amanda Graham
That's number one. And number two, um you will, when you are around other neurodivergent people, it's, it becomes much more clear if you have the same issues, if things are, you know,
01:00:50.06
Amanda Graham
you know, because after my, my nephew was diagnosed, my brother was diagnosed with dyslexia, my son. and so i just went, Oh my God, I've got all those traits. I have all, all of those things. I do all of those things.
01:01:02.84
Amanda Graham
And ah you know, when I, I, yeah we all do, don't we? We on Instagram or whatever, we follow a million neurodivergent meme accounts and you you're 75% of them, right?
01:01:14.30
Amanda Graham
You're like 75% of them and you're like, yeah, every single time.
01:01:15.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:01:18.24
Amanda Graham
And I think, so I think what's really important is because the world invalidates us so much all the time. you have to get ah so a sense of safety to get that confidence in the first place to start asking for, ah if if it is accessible to you, you know, um oh a um assessment or ah maybe a support group for people who can't afford assessment, um you know, who are self-diagnosed, but you you need to really put yourself into a safer environment.
01:01:54.83
Amanda Graham
I really believe that. And so that that would be the biggest piece of advice i'd give I'd give to them. And you're probably going to have to just say, yeah, no, when people try and deny your experiences and whatever, you're going to have to be, you know, a big girl, put your big girl pants on and say no and and advocate for yourself. And that sucks and it's hard, um but it's that or don't get diagnosed.
01:02:19.71
Amanda Graham
You know, I mean, we all have learn to
01:02:22.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, well, and it's it's so important because, ah like we were saying earlier, people who invalidate your experience, those aren't your people.
01:02:31.21
Amanda Graham
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
01:02:32.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I think that some of us have so much self-doubt that even making that leap and saying, no, no, you're the problem. It's not me. What I'm doing is okay.
01:02:42.73
Amanda Graham
Mm-hmm.
01:02:43.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
um is I mean, it's kind of a slippery slope. You don't know if having that attitude means that you're not going to listen to people that you should be listening to. Because if you're autistic, you're already probably overthinking absolutely everything.
01:02:57.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:02:58.14
Amanda Graham
Yeah, 100%. But I think, but once you come to that realization, you know, you know, you know that moment where you realize just how much you've been masking, you know, your whole life, ah sometimes more than others. And with some people, much a much stronger mask than others. and First of all, you realize how exhausting it is.
01:03:18.99
Amanda Graham
And the most important realization at that moment is to go, hang on, I, I, I sacrificed so much of myself um and masked and where did it get me it still didn't get me anywhere they still hated me they still excluded me they still fired me you know they still didn't want to play with me or whatever else so i might as well go wait yeah hang on no screw you the problem is you the problem is you and so i'm going to stop torturing myself
01:03:30.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right. Yeah.
01:03:43.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
01:03:48.74
Amanda Graham
you know, putting myself into these situations that could be avoided. Y'all are doing enough torturing for me. I'm not going to do that to myself anymore. and So we have got to flip that switch. Of going, no, no, no, i'm I'm sorry. I'm not letting you gaslight me anymore. I'm not letting you gaslight me anymore. Maybe the problem is you.
01:04:07.45
Amanda Graham
Maybe the problem is you and your exclusionary, can't handle anyone that's slightly different, wants me to read your mind, lie in communication. Maybe the problem is you.
01:04:20.68
Amanda Graham
We have to do that. We have to kind of be, you know we really, do we we need to kind of do that. And that's another reason.
01:04:27.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and the neat thing is that the internet is so helpful in that way.
01:04:29.00
Amanda Graham
Hmm. Oh, yeah. So good.
01:04:32.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, it can be a cesspool. I won't deny that.
01:04:34.23
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
01:04:34.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
But in terms of finding your community and finding your people and having your groups of of people that are supportive, that get you, that you get them, you know, because being able to help other people is huge.
01:04:37.36
Amanda Graham
Mm-hmm.
01:04:43.00
Amanda Graham
Yep.
01:04:49.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
If you're feeling bad about yourself, if you're feeling hopeless, whenever I am suicidal, which is not infrequently, frankly,
01:04:53.01
Amanda Graham
Mm-hmm.
01:04:57.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
one of the things that I will do first is I will look at my friends list and say, all right, what's going on with everybody? Who could use a hand?
01:05:06.29
Amanda Graham
yeah.
01:05:06.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
Who might need a phone call? Who might want a small gift? What can I do to make somebody else's day a little bit better? Because that's going to give me a sense of accomplishment.
01:05:17.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
It will let me know that I have value. And you know, whatever stupid depression thing has been whispering in my ear all day, doing something positive and helpful and useful tells that little voice to shut the fuck up.
01:05:32.45
Amanda Graham
yeah Yeah. Yeah. And I love that. And I love that you said that because, and you know, ah I've had suicidal ideation as well. And and some, some points it has been much, much stronger than it, you know, than it, than in other times.
01:05:46.93
Amanda Graham
um And it always comes down to one of two things for me, disconnection, feeling disconnection from people.
01:05:54.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:05:54.97
Amanda Graham
the world and whatever else or exhaustion from trying and not getting solutions, you know, like, and, and I can't see my a way out of this problem and I'm so exhausting and exhausted and I cannot go on anymore.
01:06:05.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:06:10.48
Amanda Graham
And, and, and so, and I just need this exhaustion to end. And so, you know, and you're absolutely right. I think sometimes what it is, is just that, know, even if it's just for a day, even if it's just to get through the day, to find something that helps you reconnect with people.
01:06:28.80
Amanda Graham
And you do get such a ah buzz when you help somebody. You do, you just get such, I do a thing where if I'm if i'm having a really bad day, i will go on threads and I will spend half an hour going through complete strangers um posts, praising them, bigging them up,
01:06:48.24
Amanda Graham
uh, and whatever else. And it it just makes me feel so much better because I know what it's like to have that post that no one responds to, you know, and I, and, and so we have that and we have to keep doing things like that.
01:06:56.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:07:00.42
Amanda Graham
And, and so you're right. Yeah, you're right. You're right.
01:07:04.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and here in America, we have a wide swath of people who work against that actively. They make it their business to make strangers have a worse day.
01:07:16.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
And the fact that there are people that do that lights a fire under my ass to be a better person and to be just more...
01:07:19.92
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
01:07:26.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I don't always succeed because people piss me off and then I'm just all smug and sarcastic about it. Like, I i don't always meet my own standards for kindness, but I'm working on it.
01:07:37.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
um But that, the idea that as somebody with autism or ADHD, I think there is a certain, well, and and also, ah you know, abused kids.
01:07:50.94
Amanda Graham
Mm-hmm.
01:07:51.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
there's There's a certain kind of... ah insight that we get from that because we had to grow up earlier and we had to figure things out by ourselves and you know it gives us a kind of a vision that we can more clearly see when somebody is is just being an asshole like it's easier to pick out damaged people i find
01:08:16.06
Amanda Graham
Yeah. Oh God. Yeah. Well, you know, you know what it's like. I always find it really funny when people are like, oh, you know, neurodivergent people struggle with communication. No, no, I can spot an asshole a mile away.
01:08:30.08
Amanda Graham
You know, ah what we're very good at is being able to put pick up on people's energy. What we struggle with is the fact that what they say isn't what their energy is.
01:08:40.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:08:40.72
Amanda Graham
And, and, and, and, and we struggle with like things like the, that that stupid social hierarchy and that kind of stuff.
01:08:40.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:08:48.09
Amanda Graham
We struggle with that kind of stuff. We struggle with people lying to us and then expecting us to read their minds, but no, no, no.
01:08:54.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:08:55.13
Amanda Graham
Energy doesn't lie, baby. Energy does not lie. It doesn't lie. I think we're really good at picking up on that because we're not trying to prove anything to anyone.
01:09:01.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. Yeah.
01:09:03.14
Amanda Graham
We don't care about the hierarchy in the same way. We're not bound by those rules.
01:09:08.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
So with that in mind, I would like to know how a ah the, ah how are you saying the AUDHD or do we say ADHD?
01:09:16.73
Amanda Graham
um audio audiod yeah
01:09:19.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. So how has that impacted your professional life both before and after diagnosis? Cause I'm sure there's a difference.
01:09:25.41
Amanda Graham
I love this question. I love this question. um I am absolutely ah complete contradiction. and i had I had 50,000 jobs in my life, um ah but was was able to deep dive ah in into things like research. So like, for example, before I before I was, ah you know, when I was at uni, I was a debater, and I was a ah policy debater. So it was which was heaven for being ADHD, because ah the the the autistic side was really happy that because it was deep, deep, deep research and focus.
01:10:05.16
Amanda Graham
deep. um your Your whole life was devoted to it 24 seven. And then the debate itself, you would speak 150 to 200 words a minute. So you could talk as fast as you wanted at the same time.
01:10:17.10
Amanda Graham
and And so it was absolute ADHD heaven. and And so, and that was the only time there's only been a couple of times where I was able to do both things at the same time. Usually i have phases.
01:10:27.66
Amanda Graham
I have this theory that our ADHD people are 70, 30, So at any given time, we're 70% one and 30% the other, and that flips back and forth all the time.
01:10:37.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, wow.
01:10:38.33
Amanda Graham
So I have, so I have some, so I have all the variety of like millions of types of jobs. I used to be a, I used to be a matchmaker in a dating, company.
01:10:50.45
Amanda Graham
I used to be, I worked in a million retail jobs. I was a waitress. I was a bartender. I was, um I worked in lots of different temping jobs at different offices, different types of businesses.
01:11:02.78
Amanda Graham
But then I would do stuff like when I worked in TV, I worked in documentaries, which was all about super, super deep dives, you know, because you would have to learn to explain complex things like neuro, Neolithic sensory archaeology to an audience that didn't know what any of those words meant.
01:11:21.60
Amanda Graham
So um it was it was really interesting. And it is i mean I always need that variety and I have to work on lots of different things. And I really struggle to focus on things that I don't like.
01:11:36.20
Amanda Graham
Right.
01:11:36.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
yep yep.
01:11:36.89
Amanda Graham
But at the same time, but but and and that is really that will never change.
01:11:37.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
yep
01:11:41.37
Amanda Graham
I've accepted that about me and I've accepted the spoons thing. i honor the spoons thing. But um but ah there have but there have been incredibly huge advantages.
01:11:55.76
Amanda Graham
to being Audie HD in my field. And that is that um I am like my writing is very vivid because I write when I write scripts, it's all the sensory experience of my characters.
01:12:11.84
Amanda Graham
And because I observe how humans act, like I always call myself a robot because I observe how those humans act.
01:12:16.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:12:20.68
Amanda Graham
I'm really good at understanding people, how they occupy a space and how they react, what's said, what is unsaid. And that is all the types of stuff you need in in really good script writing.
01:12:34.32
Amanda Graham
And because um I'm able to construct things, jokes, deconstruct them. And I'm also a hell of a script editor because of my pattern spotting. So, um so what I've done and what I've learned over the past couple of years is, okay, yep.
01:12:49.65
Amanda Graham
I'm always going to have problems with working in an office environment, you know, with big loud lights and things like that. And I'm going to struggle ah with, with office politics, which are very strong in the TV and film industry, you know, like unquestioned power as a fuck all that shit.
01:13:05.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:13:08.13
Amanda Graham
I'm not doing any of that. But I so what I have to do is what I, you know, was I had to become a freelancer and do my own work and advocate for myself and figure out ways to get my work out there.
01:13:21.15
Amanda Graham
and um And so I did that. And then the other thing I do, which is the public speaking, um i do a lot of that because of my standup. So i'm I'm cool with public speaking. But what I'm very famous for are my how-to network sessions, my networking hack sessions. And I fly all over the world doing them.
01:13:37.51
Amanda Graham
And I did them because I was so shit at networking that i almost destroyed my career. And so what I had to do was reverse engineer all my mistakes, autism,
01:13:48.31
Amanda Graham
um i So I reverse engineered everything, broke it down, and then constructed system that everybody uses, whether they're neurotypical or neurodivergent.
01:14:01.18
Amanda Graham
And I succeeded that only because that was a disadvantage you know that I had at with ADHD. So I think what's really important for people who are neurodivergent to understand is um that you have to lean into but what your biggest challenges and weaknesses are and that, and take that because there is a market for people who are experiencing the same thing and then give that to them.
01:14:28.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow, that's amazing! I love that so much!
01:14:34.54
Amanda Graham
Yeah. Yeah, I'm all about like, you know, then but again, this is the fitting in versus the the the belonging thing. You know, it's, we can bang down the doors and we can beg and p plead to be invited to the table or we can build our own damn table.
01:14:41.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
01:14:50.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
So... that makes so much sense. I wonder... how does Does that get applied to personal relationships as well?
01:15:01.06
Amanda Graham
Um, I, o the older I get, the fewer relationships I have with neurotypicals. Uh, so yeah, unless we've got something, unless we've got something, only it's, it's nothing against neurotypicals, bless them.
01:15:09.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I hear that.
01:15:15.81
Amanda Graham
They can't help the way they're born. Um, but I, no, I love them. It's just that it's exhausting having to explain myself all the time and, you know, and, and, and all that. And I, and I just, I have so much more in common with neurodivergent people.
01:15:31.49
Amanda Graham
I love films and, and dark horror and, and, and comedy and all these these types of things that we all tend to love. And we all tend to joke about the same things. And we all have that very, well, not all of us, but we, a lot of us have that very fierce sense of justice. And, um you know, all of the things that are important to me are things that are important to,
01:15:51.96
Amanda Graham
my friends and um I, I don't have the spoons for, ah you know, superficial, and small talk type of relationships.
01:16:06.61
Amanda Graham
I I I I'd much rather have 10 friends who I drill down deeply and have these very rich relationships where i can talk about lots of interesting things, you know,
01:16:06.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah,
01:16:19.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah I find that hanging out with with neurotypical people, in some ways, it reminds me of having a customer service job. Where you can't...
01:16:27.85
Amanda Graham
I love that Wednesday. I feel bad if any of your listeners are neurotypicals, but yeah.
01:16:30.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because you can't necessarily... they get it. They get it
01:16:34.82
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
01:16:35.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, I do have a couple of friends that are neurotypical. My very first episode of my show, I invited a neurotypical guy so that he basically could do what I normally do, which is bring out people's stories so we can we can showcase individuals.
01:16:49.63
Amanda Graham
yeah
01:16:51.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
So he he kind of showcased me so I didn't have to showcase myself because I'm bad at that. But, yeah, it's because it's this thing where you can't really say what's on your mind
01:16:57.49
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
01:17:03.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because if you are your me as me, your most authentic self, um you have to keep stopping to answer their questions.
01:17:11.57
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
01:17:11.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
Or to explain how this thing is connected to this thing when it makes perfect sense to you.
01:17:15.13
Amanda Graham
Mm-hmm.
01:17:17.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I often find it very frustrating to not feel understood.
01:17:19.73
Amanda Graham
Mm-hmm.
01:17:22.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I'm going to, like you were saying, I'm going to have a much better chance of being heard and seen and understood.
01:17:22.94
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
01:17:29.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
by people whose brains work more similarly to my own.
01:17:34.46
Amanda Graham
Yeah. Do you ever get frustrated? Let me ask you something, Wednesday, because it's one of the things that I just think is the most frustrating thing. Do you already know where they're going in their conversation? Like you're like, yeah, you're going to talk about this next, this and this. Would you please talk faster? Talk faster.
01:17:48.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I have a...
01:17:48.51
Amanda Graham
faster. Talk faster.
01:17:49.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah And I tend to interrupt people, which I guess people don't like.
01:17:53.76
Amanda Graham
yeah
01:17:55.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's that's kind of frowned upon in modern society. But yeah, I already know the next five things you're going to say. You don't really have to say them because what you're going to say.
01:18:02.53
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
01:18:03.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then they feel like I'm calling them insipid and and banal. And it's like, well, I wasn't going to say that. But because I think.
01:18:12.12
Amanda Graham
Yeah. Also, do you.
01:18:13.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
I think impatience sometimes comes off as as annoyance or smugness. And i recognize that it's me not having the patience to sit through the things that I can already guess that you're about to say, you know, to a neurotypical person.
01:18:26.42
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
01:18:28.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
But it it comes off as rude. And I don't, just for authenticity's sake, I don't want people to think that I don't care what they're saying.
01:18:31.83
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
01:18:37.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because I do.
01:18:37.91
Amanda Graham
yeah
01:18:38.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like that I don't value their opinion.
01:18:39.23
Amanda Graham
yes
01:18:40.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because if I don't value your opinion, I'm probably not going to be talking to you unless someone's making me.
01:18:47.78
Amanda Graham
Yeah. Do you that's that is hilarious. I absolutely relate to this 100%. But as see, but but when I'm talking, see, I don't mind the interrupting when I'm talking to neuro divergent people, I always see the interrupting thing as you're finding the, the, the, the subject stimulating and you want to make sure that you get this thought out because you're going to forget it.
01:19:09.01
Amanda Graham
Cause you're going to be 20 thoughts ahead in five minutes, you know, like in 50 seconds anyways,
01:19:09.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
01:19:13.56
Amanda Graham
And also I love the fact, and this is what I love about neurodivergence is whenever I talk about something that's upsetting me, the first thing they do is share a story about their own similar thing. And I always think, thank Christ, they get it.
01:19:26.60
Amanda Graham
And ah apparently neurotypicals hate that.
01:19:27.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm. So relatable.
01:19:28.56
Amanda Graham
They think we're trying to like capitalize on the conversation when we do that. But I want to know that when you're listening, you at least understand in an empathetic way, you know, what I'm going through that makes what you say so much better than just, Oh yeah.
01:19:44.26
Amanda Graham
Yeah. That must be hard. You know, no tell me you understand, show me that you understand that. Well, that's how we bond. So yeah. And you only get that from neurodivergent people.
01:19:53.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right, because the neurotypical response to that is often an accusation of like one-upmanship. or
01:20:00.31
Amanda Graham
Yep.
01:20:01.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
it it it to me, it comes across as this very, like, i am trying to tell my story. Do not interrupt me with your life.
01:20:08.01
Amanda Graham
Yeah. Yeah.
01:20:09.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, dude, I get it. You're having a bad day, and I want to be here for you.
01:20:13.35
Amanda Graham
yeah
01:20:13.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
I want to hear you out about all these things. I'm just saying, like, I get it. And this is why I get it. So I'm not just empathizing you with you, like, oh, I'm so sorry that happened, moving on.
01:20:26.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because I do get it. And if, like, what I'm, like like you were saying, like, if I'm seeking out someone to talk about this issue, I want it to be someone who gets it.
01:20:37.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
So if if telling me why and how you get it, ah like, if if that's what what you've got for me,
01:20:37.69
Amanda Graham
Yes.
01:20:44.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Give it to me. I want it. I want to know that you get it. And I want to know why and how.
01:20:49.46
Amanda Graham
Absolutely.
01:20:49.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
So...
01:20:49.78
Amanda Graham
And the reason we do that is because we've been so traumatized, especially in our childhood with other people not getting it.
01:20:54.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep. Yep.
01:20:58.35
Amanda Graham
And so we understand the value of feeling like we're understood. And that's why our brain goes there first when somebody talks about a problem.
01:21:08.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
Absolutely.
01:21:10.35
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
01:21:10.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
So um you actually, this is a question we only ask with consent, and you did consent to tell us about a time when you felt in legitimate fear for your life.
01:21:16.09
Amanda Graham
Yes.
01:21:20.29
Amanda Graham
Okay.
01:21:20.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
What would you like to say about that?
01:21:22.48
Amanda Graham
Right. Okay. I've got many, but, um, the one that, um, I, I, I talk about, I can't give all the details because some of the, some of it is not my story, to tell, but, um, when I was in the cult church, um, the pastor who was complete psychopath, uh, ended up
01:21:31.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. Okay.
01:21:42.40
Amanda Graham
sexually abusing at least six women that we know of. I was, he was grooming me as well, but I was 13 or 14 at the time. Um, and, uh, my mother told the deacon board, ah they didn't believe her.
01:22:01.08
Amanda Graham
ah they told, well, you know, that that, that was the, that was the official line.
01:22:01.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes, they did. Oh!
01:22:05.65
Amanda Graham
They didn't believe her. So they went right to the pastor and told him. And, ah he, uh, left he wrote a letter saying he was going to kill us in left it in the mailbox and she so she took the letter and took it to the deacon board said now do you believe me and uh so then what happened was the now i obviously i wasn't there for the conversation between the deacons and the pastor but all i know is that that night we went to our friend's house
01:22:16.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
oh
01:22:38.39
Amanda Graham
And, uh, so they, we, we didn't know that like the kids. So there was my mother and her two friends. I won't say their last names, but like the, the, you know, the the husband and the wife and they knew what was going on, but all of us kids didn't know what was going on.
01:22:53.58
Amanda Graham
And, uh, so they lived in a semi-detached house. Um, And they were very poor. We were all very poor, but they were very poor. And um and and this will become important in a second.
01:23:04.94
Amanda Graham
So we were upstairs and we were being very naughty, the kids. We were actually playing bingo, which was um banned from the church, but they had a ah little, it just literally bingo.
01:23:15.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because it's gambling, right?
01:23:16.84
Amanda Graham
Yeah, literally just little kids bingo. And they had it hidden in their attic. So they got it out and we were playing it really quietly. And then we heard this banging on the downstairs um door.
01:23:29.59
Amanda Graham
And um this was cold. It was January, of February in upstate New York. So cold. And um and it was it was the pastor and he was screaming for my mom.
01:23:41.25
Amanda Graham
And the husband was like, um go away. She's not here. And he's like, I can see your car, blah, blah. blah And he had a gun. and um the And the husband was like, this went back and forth. And he was like, we're going to call the police.
01:23:56.45
Amanda Graham
um and he And the pastor was just screaming, I'm going to you know i'm going to get get in one way or the other, all that kind of stuff. Now, don't bear in mind, we're all upstairs and we have no idea why all this fighting is going on.
01:24:08.93
Amanda Graham
So anyways, somehow the mom comes upstairs into the room. And now we're there with the bingo. So you know, we're frozen and having no clue what's going on. And she doesn't even notice the bingo.
01:24:21.28
Amanda Graham
She doesn't even notice that we're like, being and she goes, okay.
01:24:21.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, no.
01:24:24.97
Amanda Graham
um And she goes over to the wall because they were so poor, they couldn't afford a phone. So she had to kind of wrap on the wall, but be quiet enough where the pastor couldn't hear us from the outside, um but be loud enough where the woman next door could hear us.
01:24:42.01
Amanda Graham
And so um she started, yeah, so she started um ah knocking on the, I can't remember the lady's name, but she started knocking on the wall and going like, call the police, call the police, call the police right now, call the police.
01:24:42.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
oh no
01:24:53.60
Amanda Graham
And then ah my friend started joining in as well. I guess they had talked through the wall before. I'm not quite sure, but ah anyways, they ended up calling the police. And so um ah she went back downstairs and, and then the next thing I heard the husband, we were still, you know, in the top level of the house. And then the next thing and I heard the husband going, we called the police now you need to go pastor.
01:25:16.79
Amanda Graham
And the last thing I remember about that scene was him walking away and he had on this big puffy jacket and he had on ah like a, a toque, you know, like a, um, ah like a wool hat that was kind of hanging like a beanie off the back of him.
01:25:32.10
Amanda Graham
And he was walking away um with a gun and, um and he walked away into the night. And then I remember, I don't know how long it was because we were all just like, what the hell?
01:25:43.56
Amanda Graham
um But, and I don't even remember what they said to us, but I do remember that we went right then to hide out at a farm for three days.
01:25:57.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
wow
01:25:58.47
Amanda Graham
Yeah. um And then, you know, the church obviously split. And what was crazy was, and this isn't anything to do with like... being scared anymore, but being really confused.
01:26:11.51
Amanda Graham
they the When the church split, so that must have happened on like a Tuesday night or something. And then that Sunday, the pastor wasn't there, but his whole family was there, including his mother-in-law, like his wife's mother.
01:26:25.16
Amanda Graham
And um ah they made all those women, they have in churches, these types of churches, what's called an altar call, which is at the end of the service, um they sing a hymn very quietly.
01:26:37.89
Amanda Graham
And if you feel moved by the spirit or you're convicted or want to get saved or whatever, you go to the front and then somebody will take you into another room and, you know, pray with you or convert you or whatever. And, but they also made you um confess your sins in front of the whole church.
01:26:57.00
Amanda Graham
They made all those women who he had been abusing, confess their sins of being Jezebels and whatever else in front of the whole church. Um,
01:27:06.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
Ew.
01:27:08.13
Amanda Graham
Oh yeah. And then I remember that the, the pastor's wife's mother, um, who ah started screaming at them. and and I remember, I'll never forget. She said, I just have so much bitterness toward these women. And all six of the women were standing there with their heads down in front of the whole congregation. And, and they were all like kind of fidgeting with their hands and whatever It was just insane. It wasn't until after that,
01:27:36.20
Amanda Graham
we were told what had actually happened. Um, yeah. And it w it wasn't until, um, much later that I realized i was the next in line because he did this, he had this pattern where he, he would, he had a special a burden in his heart for lost women, you see.
01:27:55.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
Of course.
01:27:55.57
Amanda Graham
And so all of the women who he was ah doing this to were all divorcees or single moms or women who had problems in their you know relationship or whatever else.
01:27:56.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, for sake.
01:28:06.56
Amanda Graham
And so he would do it in counseling. He would have one-on-one counseling. So he had already done it with all these women And then he said ah that I needed counseling because I was a rebellious jean jacket wearing kid.
01:28:20.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
oh
01:28:21.15
Amanda Graham
ah and And so i had two sessions with him ah before my mom stopped it and then everything blew up. So thats that's my story with that, yeah.
01:28:31.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
01:28:33.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
I don't even know what to say. that is ah That's horrifying.
01:28:38.40
Amanda Graham
yeah
01:28:38.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
um i Because I actually, i know someone who had ah a similar situation. I think it was a I mean, they they didn't consider it a cult.
01:28:49.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
They just called it a church.
01:28:51.34
Amanda Graham
Oh, no. Yeah. Okay. All right.
01:28:52.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
But the the priest, and yeah, you do.
01:28:53.62
Amanda Graham
You need to use the word cold when it's a cold.
01:28:56.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
01:28:56.99
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
01:28:57.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
But the ah the the pastor that touched her ah she had to apologize in front of the the church as well.
01:29:05.35
Amanda Graham
Mm-hmm.
01:29:05.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
And she, I mean, as an autistic person, i think I probably would have asked what I was, like, what my sin was.
01:29:17.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Because it's always, like, i mean, the idea that ah the victims are in any way responsible is such a blatant, patriarchal women are responsible for everything men do.
01:29:30.37
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
01:29:32.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
Men are never responsible for their own behavior. And yet, men should run everything because women are too emotional.
01:29:40.11
Amanda Graham
yeah
01:29:40.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
But, you know, apparently multiple women tempted this this servant of God into sin. I just, ah oh gosh, I don't want to be angry for the whole rest of the show.
01:29:51.95
Amanda Graham
and know Yeah.
01:29:52.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'm so sorry that that happened to you.
01:29:52.30
Amanda Graham
Yeah. No, yeah.
01:29:54.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's, I mean... That's such an awful, unfair thing to to make someone have to live with.
01:30:02.27
Amanda Graham
Yeah, well, I mean, you know, though it's odd because... Well, I mean, there there was a lot... You know, I had a lot of stuff in my childhood on on on my mom's side of the family that was pretty fucked up. But um it was just it was just ah another step in the whole continuum.
01:30:16.56
Amanda Graham
um But i I try not, it's not that I try not to dwell on it, but I try and see it as, okay, it happened.
01:30:28.67
Amanda Graham
And, and the only thing I can do about this is keep control by defining, what that means and what happened and you, and choosing the words and not letting anybody else redefine that for me. And because this happened to me and this happened to me, I'm going to do this and, and not necessarily make it right, but I'm, I am not going to let this experience happen in vain. If that makes sense. I'm i'm going to take the knowledge that I got about human nature not do
01:31:02.67
Amanda Graham
know,
01:31:05.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, it seems like your career, like the work that you do, ah first of all, comedy is one of our most powerful coping mechanisms.
01:31:05.59
Amanda Graham
you know
01:31:09.34
Amanda Graham
Mm-hmm. 100%. It's, yeah.
01:31:14.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
So working in comedy, you know, that absolutely helps anyone who's been through anything traumatic. I mean, that's, you know, we we all know that.
01:31:25.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's what Robin Williams taught us, that comedy is how we deal with with trauma, but also...
01:31:30.94
Amanda Graham
Mm-hmm.
01:31:32.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
the way that when you advocate for the the vulnerable, any vulnerable demographic, you empower them and you, you give them more, I mean, to, to whatever degree it is, more power to live their life the way that they want to, and to advocate for themselves and to keep them safer.
01:31:42.17
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
01:31:56.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, like, I'm a big advocate for sex education for kids. And MAGA people have all kinds of nasty things to say about that. But the fact of the matter is, the more information you have, the better equipped you are to keep yourself safe and to understand, for example, who is at fault.
01:32:09.15
Amanda Graham
yeah
01:32:15.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, like, what is your responsibility to avoid and what is completely on someone else?
01:32:15.34
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
01:32:23.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, um yeah, I think that... it It seems pretty clear to me that you were able to take that experience and and use it to inform a career that helps people in really meaningful and really individualized ways.
01:32:41.74
Amanda Graham
Oh God. Yeah. And it's this, it's, it's this whole thing that like, you know, when you write, ah you know comedy is, ah is, you know, there's a, there's a saying that comedy is tragedy plus time.
01:32:52.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm. Yep.
01:32:52.68
Amanda Graham
um And, and, you know, because all of my stuff is ah almost all my stuff, not all, I have some silly things as well, but like all my stuff is usually rebels going against ridiculous power systems, like unchecked power systems. And,
01:33:06.39
Amanda Graham
and And the thing is that you can't write evil if you haven't looked into the face of evil.
01:33:15.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep. Yep.
01:33:15.15
Amanda Graham
and And if you don't know what it feels like and you don't know what it looks like. And and and so there is that. Am I going to say it was worth it? Probably not. But, you know, at least I'm going to get something out of it. And the other thing is, it gives you an authority, you know, because whenever somebody questions this or, oh, that doesn't happen, that never have, blah, blah, blah, blah.
01:33:34.85
Amanda Graham
I'm just like, you're not a serious person. You could just, you're just not a serious person. i'm not even going to engage it. You know what i mean?
01:33:39.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
01:33:39.45
Amanda Graham
I'm not going engage with that way of thinking. You're not a serious person. just no and no and you do have like in the kind of un an authority that you know about human nature that people can't question because you've lived it you've seen it so no no no thanks yeah
01:33:46.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:33:58.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep. Yep.
01:34:03.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now I want to talk more about your book.
01:34:07.31
Amanda Graham
yeah
01:34:08.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
So what inspired you to create this book?
01:34:12.97
Amanda Graham
Uh, well, I, ah you know, the last decade of my life has been the hardest time.
01:34:17.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
Thank
01:34:20.06
Amanda Graham
ah it's been extraordinary. And as I pivoted kind of over and over again, I, I, I was trying everything, you know, to to, I was trying everything basically to get something to work.
01:34:37.63
Amanda Graham
Um, and you know, I started off at 42,
01:34:42.14
Amanda Graham
ah divorced, no money, no idea what I was going to do, but I wanted to write. And um I remember I had a kind of dark night of the soul. I didn't know that it was called that by back then, but where i was nothing was working. And I remember it was a December morning. it was freezing.
01:35:00.49
Amanda Graham
And um I was so upset. I had no money. i couldn't find a job. I couldn't do anything. Nothing was working. I had a terrible, terrible breakup with a betrayal that eight years later, I'm still not ready to talk about.
01:35:15.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, yikes.
01:35:15.34
Amanda Graham
and But yeah, it was bad. and But I, it was really, really bad. And I, and I remember just like being in my bed going, I cannot go on. I cannot go on like this any longer. And so I don't even believe in anything, but I was like, i don't know, God, universe, whoever is out there, I just need something to help me just, just one thing to help me.
01:35:41.68
Amanda Graham
And then the next day, this is just such a stupid story, but the next day I got up and I, and I just put on YouTube because Lord knows I didn't have a job to go to. So, um, I put on YouTube and, um, I don't know why, but I put ah some motivational videos came on, you know, the really cheesy, they show pictures of people running marathons and there's like very important quotations.
01:35:50.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep, yep.
01:36:01.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
yep yeah
01:36:03.40
Amanda Graham
very serious quotations. And, and then, and and some of the voices you recognize, some of them you don't, but some of them you do. And I recognize Steve Jobs voice and I was up watching and there's like people running and and doing the long jump and stuff. And I hear Steve Jobs voice and he's like, so, you know, there's times in your life where nothing makes any sense. And I was like, okay, this is weird.
01:36:23.24
Amanda Graham
And he goes, um, ah you know, and and everything you try doesn't work. And I'm like sitting up Wednesday, I'm sitting up on the sofa going, this is exactly what I was talking about yesterday. but And he's like, so I've just got one thing to tell you one solution, one thing that you must remember. And i was like, Oh, my God, tell me what it is, Steve Jobs, I need to know, what is the thing that I prayed for?
01:36:42.01
Amanda Graham
And he goes, it's only when you look back, after it's over, that you can connect the dots and see why things had to happen the way they did. And i was like, That's it.
01:36:52.67
Amanda Graham
Dots. Dots. That's what's supposed to help me. That's what I prayed for when everything in my life is completely screwed up. I was like, you have got to be kidding. So anyways, I put it aside.
01:37:04.68
Amanda Graham
i was like, this is the most ridiculous thing. Dots. Connecting the dots. That's so stupid. So anyways, but then a couple years later, the dots started to connect. The dots started to connect.
01:37:16.05
Amanda Graham
um And I was direct, you know, this is much more complex than, oh, rejection is a redirection. No, it was literally like deep, dark failures and deep, dark moments.
01:37:27.06
Amanda Graham
years later, ah specifically equipped me to do certain things and specifically equipped me to meet certain people and whatever else. And then the dots started to connect. So i was like, oh, I think we've got something here.
01:37:41.38
Amanda Graham
and And then meanwhile, because, um you know, being autistic, i when I have problems, I try and... find the equation to get out of them. And so I was reading loads of self-help books and I loved them.
01:37:54.62
Amanda Graham
But the problem was that they always assumed that when you're in a crisis, that you can sit down and and and do a workbook for an hour and read 50 pages of a chapter.
01:38:04.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
01:38:05.32
Amanda Graham
And that is not how crisis works. So I was like, okay, I want to write a self-help book. because I'm very good at research and with my ADHD, I know a million different things.
01:38:16.14
Amanda Graham
um But I want it to be to honor spoons. I want it to honor if you only have enough energy for one sentence, you are going to go to that page in the chapter and get one sentence. It's going to get you through the day. Or if you need a story or if you need whatever, that's what I'm going to do.
01:38:32.95
Amanda Graham
So I decided to write this book and I did different chapters like assholes and money and broken hearts and and all that. and um And so I did that, but I needed a kind of arc for the book, like a spine.
01:38:46.04
Amanda Graham
And that's when the dots came in. and I started off. So with each chapter, you know, I've got like, say, assholes. At the end of each chapter, I've got how the dots from the assholes I met connected to get me to where I needed to go or...
01:39:00.73
Amanda Graham
idiots, like all the times I was an idiot, how I connected those dots. And then that got me to where I needed to go. So I so it works on two different levels.
01:39:09.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, wow.
01:39:09.77
Amanda Graham
um But what yeah, it's really wild.
01:39:10.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
wow
01:39:12.30
Amanda Graham
So but what was really funny was, well, it's funny the right word. I started writing it like three and a half years ago. And then as i um I started, I got an agent for it right away, like right away. And I wasn't even finished with the book. She's like, we'll package it.
01:39:28.22
Amanda Graham
It'll be great. um and And she said, I'm warning you, though, you haven't got enough of an audience. And because you're doing nonfiction, that's going to be a real problem. And lo and behold, all the publishers, the big six, well, three of the big six um and and then a bunch of little ones were all like, this is brilliant. Who is she? Tell her to come back when she's got 50 80,000 people.
01:39:47.68
Amanda Graham
you know, followers. And i was like, oh, so you want me to do the work of an eight person social media team so that you can scoop in and take 90% of the profit?
01:39:52.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
01:39:58.40
Amanda Graham
I think not.
01:39:58.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:39:59.85
Amanda Graham
So that was the first thing. But the other thing was, um what was really horrible was the last year and a half, you know, because I was refining it and and really trying to figure out what I wanted to include and what I didn't. And I was still connecting dots myself. So I was still like trying to figure out what the end of the book was.
01:40:17.29
Amanda Graham
And then all like I had, I had thought this decade was bad. I thought this decade was bad, but the last year and a half of my life to like, uh, somebody in my immediate family had a second heart attack.
01:40:31.79
Amanda Graham
Somebody in my, this is like my closest family. Somebody in my immediate family had not one, but two strokes. My best friend died. My aunt died or sorry, my Nana died. Um, my, the, the, the sale of my apartment fell through eight times. Um,
01:40:46.30
Amanda Graham
Um, I, let's see what else I mean, there, there's so many things I don't even know where to begin. It was just like, what, Oh, my friend Martin died. Um, so I had three deaths I had.
01:40:56.97
Amanda Graham
Um, I mean, really my best friend, like my ride or die, my lifelong best friend. it, it, it was just one thing after another.
01:41:00.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh.
01:41:03.91
Amanda Graham
And it was like, uh, like a final purification of, okay, if I can not lose my shit, if I can not lose my shit despite these extraordinary circumstances, then I think that I am equipped to help other people who are going through the same thing.
01:41:22.94
Amanda Graham
So I'm just going to be raw and I'm going to tell them the truth and I'm going to teach them about, ah you know, these things that make people do the things that they do. And I'm going to tell stories and I'm going to do a ton of jokes and I'm going to let them know that I am sitting right next to them.
01:41:42.56
Amanda Graham
While they go through what they're going through and I'm gonna help them connect the dots too. And and that's why I wrote that's the short answer to why I wrote the book.
01:41:50.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
That is brilliant. I love everything about that. Love it.
01:41:55.90
Amanda Graham
Yeah, yeah.
01:41:56.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
um So as a book person, ah is there a book, like just one book, provided it's available in every language, that you wish everyone in the world would read?
01:41:59.80
Amanda Graham
Mm
01:42:08.37
Amanda Graham
hmm. Oh, that's a good one. Um,
01:42:15.62
Amanda Graham
I mean, my brain immediately goes to the joke, which is, yeah, read the Bible. It's the best horror book you've you will ever read in your entire life.
01:42:22.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep. ah
01:42:24.15
Amanda Graham
um um That's a really good question. um i i would struggle with that because it's so hard to find a universal experience that has one answer.
01:42:39.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
yep
01:42:40.68
Amanda Graham
um so i don't know I don't know if i could answer that I don't know if I could answer that. That's that's a really tough one.
01:42:49.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, it it is. It is. Which is why I like to pose it.
01:42:51.09
Amanda Graham
What will would yours be?
01:42:53.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, um
01:42:56.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know, it's it's it's funny that because there are there are a handful that I think the world might be improved by reading. i think Daniel Quinn's Ishmael is a good one.
01:43:05.62
Amanda Graham
it Okay.
01:43:08.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
When we think about just people in society and how we got where we are.
01:43:13.23
Amanda Graham
Mm-hmm.
01:43:13.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
i think Harriet Lerner's Dance of Intimacy. which is one of her earlier self-help books, um just about, largely it's about how if a relationship isn't going the way you want to, you can't get other people to change.
01:43:20.00
Amanda Graham
Mm-hmm.
01:43:30.17
Amanda Graham
a
01:43:30.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
But if you look at a relationship as a dance, if you change your own steps, then the dance can't continue the way that it was. So it's, you know, it's a metaphor, but it's a,
01:43:45.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I like her a lot. um But I also think everybody should read Stephen King's Carrie, which is kind of a ridiculous title and obviously are a ridiculous like pick.
01:43:52.57
Amanda Graham
Yeah.
01:43:57.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I have a bias because I love Stephen King and I love Carrie. And I think one of the most valuable things about Carrie is the multiple point of view narration.
01:44:02.18
Amanda Graham
people
01:44:08.73
Amanda Graham
yeah
01:44:09.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because it teaches us that a bunch of people can be in the same room or the same family or the same space and see all the same things happen and think about it and experience it totally, totally differently.
01:44:25.11
Amanda Graham
Yes.
01:44:25.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
depending on and how we got there, why we're there, what we're trying to accomplish. And so I think it's valuable in that way.
01:44:29.97
Amanda Graham
Yep.
01:44:32.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
I don't imagine that everybody who reads Carrie got out of it what I got out of it, but that was such an inspiring book for me as a writer.
01:44:36.93
Amanda Graham
Mm-hmm.
01:44:40.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's one of the things I look back on the most when I look at what I'm trying to do with my own work.
01:44:46.75
Amanda Graham
I love that.
01:44:47.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I just think, like, in my fiction, point of view is is one of the most important aspects of it because i do a lot of multiple first-person point of views for that reason.
01:44:53.62
Amanda Graham
Mm-hmm.
01:44:58.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
So that we see two people experience an event and see how they experience it differently and what kind of problems that causes.
01:45:08.32
Amanda Graham
Yes. I love that.
01:45:10.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
we're We're nearing the end of our time, so I want to make sure...
01:45:10.98
Amanda Graham
That's great. Yep.
01:45:14.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
that there was not anything that you wanted to talk about that we didn't get a chance to cover.
01:45:19.10
Amanda Graham
No, I think you've been absolutely brilliant, but I did have something I wanted to ask you and say, yeah.
01:45:24.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, okay, please do.
01:45:26.94
Amanda Graham
um i had I was thinking about like, oh, ah you know, I wanted to. There's. okay because you are a creative and you are a writer and you are you have so many plates spinning and so many fingers and so many pies. I love this about you.
01:45:43.34
Amanda Graham
But what I'm curious about is. OK, so we're going to do ah it's a it's a theoretical question. um I if I could give you. Thirty million dollars.
01:45:57.26
Amanda Graham
for a project, one project, and I give you full creative control of it, what would you do?
01:46:07.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, um well, that's actually kind of an easy one because I would start a i would start a program for young...
01:46:10.64
Amanda Graham
Okay.
01:46:13.48
Amanda Graham
Oh, no, no, this is a creative This is a creative project, like a film or a book or a TV thing.
01:46:17.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Just...
01:46:19.17
Amanda Graham
It has to be something like that, like your dream film or your dream book or your dream TV show. It has to be something creative like that.
01:46:29.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
Huh. I, uh... I would probably make a ah show that is basically this show, but where I could travel and, and have, uh, interviews where I'm in the room with these people and, and do basically what I do here, because I love being able to share these perspectives with people.
01:46:45.06
Amanda Graham
Okay. Yeah.
01:46:51.65
Amanda Graham
yeah
01:46:51.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
I think that even though our listenership is small, uh, people tell me all the time that they've gotten things out of the show that they felt seen that, that, uh,
01:47:02.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
I think that what I'm doing here has has value. And I wish that I knew how to get it out to more people. Because the problem I have with my projects is once they get into people's hands, they like what they're seeing.
01:47:14.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
But I'm not, you know, I'm just not reaching people on ah on a wide scale yet. So i think I think, yeah, I think between travel and marketing, I could easily spend $30 million dollars doing this.
01:47:21.75
Amanda Graham
Yes, I love that. Okay, who would some who would some of your first guests be? I'm curious.
01:47:30.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
I would want to talk to ah the writer Billy Martin, ah formerly known as Poppy Z.
01:47:35.80
Amanda Graham
Okay.
01:47:37.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
Bright. I would want to talk to um Andrew Ray, who does the show Binging with Babish. I love that guy. um a lot of comedians, actually, because I think that there would be a lot of value in interviewing comedians because we see comedians a certain way.
01:47:53.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I think if we get in there and talk to people, particularly people that do like political comedy,
01:47:53.72
Amanda Graham
Oh.
01:47:59.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Jordan Klepper, John Oliver. Now, they are not out loud and proud about being neurodivergent, but I'm seeing it in them. so And that's that's actually one of the the problems that I have, one of the the struggles with the show, is that if I notice that someone is neurodivergent, but they don't, and or they don't want to talk about it publicly, it can be very difficult to be like, hey, you're a crazy pants like me.
01:48:21.11
Amanda Graham
oh
01:48:26.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
You want to come on the show? Because... people are not always open to that. It does take a certain level of not just bravery, but self-awareness and a and a willingness to put yourself out there.
01:48:40.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
in a in ah Depending on your genre, horror people, we we can attract some ah unstable fans. So we we don't always want to be real upfront about about certain things.
01:48:48.76
Amanda Graham
yeah
01:48:53.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, like, what is that? the um ah so so There's a kid that's stalking someone on one of the the primetime cartoons, and I forget, but he says, well, why don't you just write down your class schedule and a list of your fears?
01:49:09.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, you not everybody wants that information out.
01:49:11.35
Amanda Graham
Oh boy. That seems very specific.
01:49:15.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right? Yeah.
01:49:18.31
Amanda Graham
fine
01:49:20.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, yeah. But but that's that's what I would do. I would i would do this show, but but bigger and and more.
01:49:28.32
Amanda Graham
I love it.
01:49:29.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
Cool. Well, it is time for the Mad Lib. Do you know Mad Libs? Do you know how this works?
01:49:33.66
Amanda Graham
Yes, of course. Are you kidding? I'm a child of the seventies kid. I bring them, bring them.
01:49:37.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right on. Okay, all right. So we're going to start with some plural nouns. I need one, two, three, four, looks like five plural nouns. Let's have them.
01:49:50.12
Amanda Graham
Okay. um Let's see. Ooh. ah ah ah Wait, I'm just looking around my flat. um Okay. Nouns. Beer.
01:50:00.83
Amanda Graham
Beers.
01:50:03.90
Amanda Graham
um Hair tongs. Or what do you guys call them? of your Hair straighteners.
01:50:09.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:50:11.67
Amanda Graham
Fountain pens.
01:50:15.63
Amanda Graham
Overalls.
01:50:18.56
Amanda Graham
And... Eclipses.
01:50:26.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
And eclipses. All right.
01:50:30.41
Amanda Graham
yeah
01:50:31.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
I need an adjective.
01:50:36.37
Amanda Graham
Slow.
01:50:38.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
Alright, and a singular noun.
01:50:44.06
Amanda Graham
Pulpit.
01:50:48.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, we have a person in room, and that is always the guest. I need two, ah three actually, three celebrities.
01:50:56.60
Amanda Graham
Well, obviously, Olivia Colman.
01:51:03.26
Amanda Graham
We'll do Mark Hamill.
01:51:09.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
Always a winner.
01:51:11.18
Amanda Graham
And Flavor Flav.
01:51:17.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
Flav. Alright. An exclamation.
01:51:23.13
Amanda Graham
so um Abracadabra.
01:51:30.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
Alright. I need one, two, three more adjectives.
01:51:35.45
Amanda Graham
Okay. um Fuzzy.
01:51:42.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:51:43.77
Amanda Graham
Stinky.
01:51:46.50
Amanda Graham
And rough.
01:51:46.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:51:51.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
I need an adverb.
01:51:56.03
Amanda Graham
Quizzically.
01:51:59.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
And a number.
01:52:02.91
Amanda Graham
Eleven.
01:52:05.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
a verb ending in ing.
01:52:09.03
Amanda Graham
Tripping
01:52:11.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
And one more noun.
01:52:15.76
Amanda Graham
tile.
01:52:18.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, so this is called baseball cards.
01:52:23.10
Amanda Graham
Okay. Amazing.
01:52:25.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, it's a sports section of the Mad Lib book, so we've been doing all sports stories lately.
01:52:30.83
Amanda Graham
amazing
01:52:32.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
I have been collecting baseball beers for years. I started my collection by buying a slow pack of cards at the local pulpit store.
01:52:44.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
I kept the cards I liked and traded the ones I didn't for new hair straighteners. I made my first trade at my friend Amanda's house. I gave them my 2005 Olivia Colman in exchange for his 1999 Mark Hamill.
01:53:01.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
Abracadabra, I thought. What a fuzzy trade. Every weekend I would go to swap fountain pens and trade with the stinky collectors.
01:53:12.98
Amanda Graham
He
01:53:13.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
My collection grew quizzically and I now have over 11 cards. I put the valuable ones in plastic overalls to keep them in rough condition and preserve their dripping value.
01:53:29.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
My favorite card, however, is my 2002 Flava
01:53:35.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
My dad says to guard it with my tile. It's going to be worth hundreds of eclipses someday. Yay. i
01:53:47.09
Amanda Graham
Sounds like chat GPT got drunk.
01:53:49.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right? Right? Except it can't really get drunk, so it just has to you know feed off the information of lots of other people who got drunk like long before it.
01:53:52.95
Amanda Graham
the
01:53:58.36
Amanda Graham
It just, it just steals our junk.
01:53:59.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:54:00.75
Amanda Graham
Yeah. It just steals our junk.
01:54:03.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
Amanda, I'm so glad you could be here.
01:54:03.13
Amanda Graham
That's really cool.
01:54:05.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
This was so much fun.
01:54:06.85
Amanda Graham
Yeah. I've had so much fun. It's been a, it's been a brilliant chat Wednesday and I really, thank you so much for having me on. I appreciate it.
01:54:13.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, it is my pleasure. um We want to remind all our listeners to find us on coffee, coffee, um... That's our money-making platform where you can subscribe to the magazine, Sometimes Hilarious Horror.
01:54:26.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
um And they the magazine supports the show, so it's all one big joyful thing. So if you want to support us, we are on Ko-Fi. That's ko-fi slash sometimes hilarious horror.
01:54:39.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
um And thanks again to Amanda for being here. We're going to see everybody next week.
Comments
Post a Comment