Mentally Oddcast Transcript: Trans-Masc and Dwarfism Activist Chapin Lennon
The audio version of this episode can be found here.
Find more from Chapin on TikTok: @4amdemon
00:00:00.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
You are listening to the Mentally Oddcast. My name is Wednesdayly Friday, and we are brought to you by Sometimes Hilarious Horror Magazine. Find us on coffee. ah This week, we are talking to Chapin. And Chapin is 26 years old. They live in Michigan.
00:00:19.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
And they are one of the first openly transitioning people with dwarfism. They have a Bachelor of Science in Psychology. Chapin identifies as non-binary transmasculine. And we will talk about that later.
00:00:32.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
um They teach pre-K and advocate for making the world safer and more accessible for marginalized children. Wow, that must be great right now. um And also Chapin uses social media to educate and inform about disability history and its roots of intersection with other marginalized groups.
00:00:52.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
So we're going to get into all of that. But before we do, well, let me first say hi and welcome.
00:00:58.73
Chapin Kartsounes
Hello, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here and to talk about all this stuff today.
00:01:02.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
Aww. Yeah, yeah. Now, before we get into the heavy stuff, we like to ask our guests to tell us about the first scary movie that they remember seeing.
00:01:13.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
So what was yours?
00:01:15.32
Chapin Kartsounes
um I love scary movies. and But the first one I saw was actually the Paranormal Activity movie, the first one. And after that, I became obsessed with horror and thriller and all those types of movies. And i remember being nine years old and trying to watch The Ring with my friends. Yeah.
00:01:34.36
Chapin Kartsounes
and just being terrified. We couldn't even make it through the like title screen on the DVD to press play. And we had to go back like a year later and try and watch it again. And we got through it, but it terrified me for a year, just the title screen.
00:01:45.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:01:48.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, it's it's scary. I mean, the ring is scary.
00:01:50.59
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
00:01:51.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
Even even the just the American version. is it that
00:01:53.68
Chapin Kartsounes
Right. It really is. Very imagery.
00:01:57.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
But it sounds like it put you on a path, so that's a good thing.
00:02:00.94
Chapin Kartsounes
It truly did.
00:02:02.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now, getting into movies, um I actually want to talk about the way that dwarfism is portrayed in films.
00:02:10.38
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
00:02:10.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
um And I know we that that's like an all day topic, but um well, I think I only realized recently that it is not acceptable to call a person a dwarf to like.
00:02:15.16
Chapin Kartsounes
Definitely.
00:02:24.61
Chapin Kartsounes
I'm sorry.
00:02:26.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
Please go ahead.
00:02:27.04
Chapin Kartsounes
Go ahead. but um I think it depends truly on the person with that. because dwarf dwarfism and dwarf is the medical terminology that we use.
00:02:37.81
Chapin Kartsounes
So I think people are starting to move away from it only because of the way it has been used to kind of portray us as that fantasy character.
00:02:49.73
Chapin Kartsounes
um And because people are so unsure about what to call us, I think people are trying to move more towards one term, little person, ah to kind of remove that gray area.
00:03:03.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that's a thing that happens with a lot of marginalized demographics, is that a word will start to evolve linguistically. Like, it will mean something different because maybe because bigots are using it, like, as an insult, or because...
00:03:18.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
of of other factors, but like, you know, it used to be okay to say that person's disabled. And now there are people that don't want us to say that.
00:03:24.65
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:03:27.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
um I know person-centered language is a thing in ah in mental health circles. Like you don't say, I'm a bi'm bipolar. You say, I'm a person with bipolar disorder, as opposed to defining yourself by any one condition that you might have.
00:03:37.90
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:03:42.15
Chapin Kartsounes
Right. um That's definitely a pretty controversial topic in the little little people community. ah But we talk about it a lot. And I think a lot of us feel okay with both person first and identity first language.
00:03:59.28
Chapin Kartsounes
But I think that the reason why a lot of disability groups are moving away from person first language is because we are seen as our identity first. ah We are treated as our identity first. That impacts the way we interact with society and the way society interacts with us.
00:04:16.93
Chapin Kartsounes
And so the whole person first movement while it started as um a way to try and humanize us before seeing us as our disability it's not really aligning with how reality is for us so i think a lot of people are at the point where they want to acknowledge the fact that our identity is such an important part of our lives
00:04:43.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
Is it a futile gesture to try and get everyone in a given demographic to agree on anything?
00:04:51.45
Chapin Kartsounes
I guess to an extent, especially the smaller the demographic, like the little people community is very close knit and very, we we see each other frequently and talk frequently and we try to expand and get to know ah new families and things like that and throughout different countries. So yeah.
00:05:14.88
Chapin Kartsounes
With us, we have these conversations a lot and intimately in our circles. And I think that sometimes, like with dwarfism, we are still at the point where we are still trying to teach people the basics of what dwarfism is.
00:05:31.54
Chapin Kartsounes
And I think that sometimes it is important for us to agree on some terminologies and some explanations of things so that we can combat the misinformation that is out there about us because most of the information that exists publicly and more known about dwarfism is misinformation.
00:05:54.09
Chapin Kartsounes
So a lot of times we're were having to teach people to unlearn things that they've learned, and that can be really difficult. So it can also be really difficult to get us all to agree on how to explain that But I do.
00:06:09.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, i Oh, no, no, please.
00:06:11.22
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh, sorry. Oh, no, good.
00:06:12.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
I interrupted you. I'm sorry.
00:06:13.91
Chapin Kartsounes
ah you know you're good
00:06:14.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'm so mad with that.
00:06:15.66
Chapin Kartsounes
Me too. um I was just going to say that I do think that every person has a right to be called what they want to be called. um So it's definitely a slippery slope.
00:06:28.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
Totally.
00:06:29.23
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
00:06:30.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
Totally. Well, and I think...
00:06:31.52
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
00:06:33.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like Peter Dinklage, for example, um as like as a character, refers to himself as a dwarf on on Game of Thrones. So I think that that alone made it so that everyone thought that that was an okay thing to do.
00:06:50.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
But the thing about Game of Thrones is that there's also like shadow assassins and dragons and slavery.
00:06:50.13
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:06:56.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
and ah I mean, it's not a how-to manual.
00:06:59.19
Chapin Kartsounes
Right. Exactly. Personally, I don't mind being called a dwarf just because I know that it is a scientific term. But I think a lot of people talk, I think a lot of people's problem is that, one, there's a different way of spelling it. Sometimes people say like dwarves and they spell it with the V-E um as the fantasy creature.
00:07:23.48
Chapin Kartsounes
And I don't know, it's just, it's definitely a complicated subject. And it definitely goes by a person-by-person basis.
00:07:31.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, all right.
00:07:32.68
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
00:07:33.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now I'm kind of embarrassed to say this word in front of you ostensibly, but the word midget, no one should be using that word, right?
00:07:36.25
Chapin Kartsounes
No, you're so good.
00:07:39.35
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
00:07:41.96
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes, definitely. That's something that we always tell people first. Like that is a slur. It was used during the circus freak show days um as a classification for us.
00:07:52.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:07:54.66
Chapin Kartsounes
And at first, this is another explanation of how language has changed. Another example of it. um At first, it was the word that was used to bring little people together in communities.
00:08:07.21
Chapin Kartsounes
um But we've grown from that because... it's just been used so derogatory, to derogatorily towards us for decades.
00:08:19.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and it's a word that people use without even realizing that it's rude. People will playfully call their children that or any short person, you know, like they think they're being very witty.
00:08:24.02
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
00:08:26.56
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes. Yes.
00:08:31.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
And folks, slurs are not witty. you're You're not witty if you're using a slur.
00:08:36.93
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:08:37.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Wit wi is about punching up, not and any other direction but up.
00:08:37.09
Chapin Kartsounes
yeah
00:08:41.99
Chapin Kartsounes
Agreed. And it takes more skill to punch up.
00:08:45.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, yeah.
00:08:46.61
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
00:08:47.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
that's That's why once you start punching down, people think you're a bad comedian, because it's so lazy.
00:08:51.06
Chapin Kartsounes
Exactly. Right. And um growing up, I always had people asking me, like, are you sure or are you a midget? Or like, do you have dwarfism or are you a midget?
00:09:01.45
Chapin Kartsounes
Like a lot of people think dwarfism is one thing and being a midget is another thing.
00:09:06.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I thought that. I mean, all I really knew as a kid about dwarfism was...
00:09:08.41
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. Yeah.
00:09:11.75
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:09:12.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know, Billy Barty and David Rappaport. that's That's what I knew about, you know, that
00:09:15.11
Chapin Kartsounes
Uh huh.
00:09:17.66
Chapin Kartsounes
Right. Yeah, exactly. And that's why that representation matters so much for us um as such a small community. and
00:09:27.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and I asked you in the pre-interview questionnaire whether or not you have ah favorite Billy Barty movie.
00:09:34.11
Chapin Kartsounes
hmm.
00:09:34.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I kind of assumed that you might, even though you're very young. And then it occurs to me, like, damn, that was really offensive. Like, I mean, well, the thing is, people ask me if I've seen, like, everything Melissa McCarthy has ever done because they assume that if there's a fat person in movies that I'm going to go see it.
00:09:42.89
Chapin Kartsounes
Honestly, no.
00:09:51.65
Chapin Kartsounes
yep
00:09:52.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that's true to a point, but...
00:09:53.31
Chapin Kartsounes
Of course. Right. Yes, I agree. That is true to a point. Like, I'm over here watching all these reality TV shows that I don't want to watch because I'm like, I have to keep up with what they're saying about little people.
00:10:05.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, geez.
00:10:07.15
Chapin Kartsounes
but um
00:10:07.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, for future reference, um the best Billy Barty movie is called Foul Play.
00:10:08.16
Chapin Kartsounes
yeah, I really haven't.
00:10:13.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
i
00:10:13.45
Chapin Kartsounes
Alright.
00:10:14.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it's from the 70s. And it also has this like weird distinction of being a movie in which Chevy Chase is portrayed as attractive. He is the romantic lead in that movie.
00:10:24.50
Chapin Kartsounes
Alright. That's awesome. I love that.
00:10:27.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, yeah. It's wild. he's well he's Goldie Hawn is the woman in that movie.
00:10:31.00
Chapin Kartsounes
Right. Oh, okay.
00:10:32.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, you know... She was unstoppably beautiful back in the day. i mean, she's still quite beautiful now.
00:10:36.37
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:10:37.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
Seriously. But...
00:10:38.26
Chapin Kartsounes
I was going to say sounds like it. Yeah, I feel like a lot of little people my age probably have seen many Billy Barty movies. And I feel like my parents would be like, what? Why have you not watched any?
00:10:51.20
Chapin Kartsounes
But yes, I just I don't know. I have not. But I definitely know about Billy Barty, of course, um from him starting our organization and bringing us all together. So ah that would be Little People of America.
00:11:01.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
And what organization is that?
00:11:06.53
Chapin Kartsounes
And that's our organization that um it's it's basically a community group and it brings people together from all over the country and even from outside the country ah to get medical resources, see specialists, to get social resources, just everything like that. It's a lifesaving organization for sure.
00:11:32.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow. Okay.
00:11:33.73
Chapin Kartsounes
yeah. yeah
00:11:35.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now, again, my my knowledge of of people with dwarfism comes from, um you know, actors. ah Warwick Davis, Dakelage, Kenny Baker, Verne Troyer.
00:11:42.88
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:11:47.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
i You know, I'm i'm old, so Hervé Villachez was part of my deal growing up.
00:11:50.56
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
00:11:51.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
um No women. not Not a one.
00:11:54.69
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep. Yeah, yeah, I would definitely say i feel like a lot of that has to do with the fetishizing aspect and about how maybe they just don't want to see little people, women in stories unless it's under a fetish lens. And that doesn't always hit the big screen on the same level.
00:12:19.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, now I'm reminded of, ah of on LA Law, you know, there was a ah ah dwarf lawyer, David Rapoport played him.
00:12:29.16
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
00:12:29.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
And he ah went on a double date with Victor Sifuentes and he brought a call girl with him.
00:12:35.33
Chapin Kartsounes
Uh-huh.
00:12:35.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
And Sifuentes was like, well, okay, but why would you get ah a tall person to to be a call girl?
00:12:41.42
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:12:41.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
And he said, it's far too difficult to find a female dwarf call girl. As far as he knows, there were only three in the world.
00:12:49.27
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh, yep.
00:12:50.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, that you know, I was like a teenager when I saw that.
00:12:50.35
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
00:12:53.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it just made me think of a bajillion different things.
00:12:53.46
Chapin Kartsounes
Okay.
00:12:55.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, wow, I had never considered any of that.
00:12:59.80
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah, we learn really, really young. um Anyone who presents as female ah growing up with dwarfism, we learn very young what the red flags are for fetishizing and um taking advantage of us. And so I think a lot of people already have a guard and wall up for that kind of thing, and they might be less likely to know put themselves in situations where that could happen.
00:13:28.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yikes. That is really scary.
00:13:29.42
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:13:33.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Okay, I'm looking over my questions right now. um You mentioned dwarfism as a disability. Is that the predominant thinking, that it is a ah type of disability because like it causes physical issues?
00:13:48.40
Chapin Kartsounes
um I would say that's another controversial subject, but leaning towards, yes, most people think dwarfism is a disability and I don't know why it's controversial because scientifically, medically, it is a disability.
00:14:04.24
Chapin Kartsounes
um i think this comes from when we were first starting to kind of advocate for advocate for ourselves as a community. We would say things like, oh, we're just short and that's it. Because we were trying to say like, oh, we're just like you. We just have height difference.
00:14:19.48
Chapin Kartsounes
But the truth is no single person with dwarfism is just short and that's it across all hundreds of types that exist. ah All dwarfism comes with skeletal issues, muscular issues, what have you, depending on the type, um because it is a skeletal dysplasia. And so dwarfism is what happens when your skeleton does not develop properly.
00:14:46.53
Chapin Kartsounes
So there's no way that can happen and you wouldn't have issues like arthritis, spinal issues, joint issues, ah things like that. And a lot of other things.
00:14:57.99
Chapin Kartsounes
are also impacted by the different forms of dwarfism. Like my form, for example, is called we call it s-e-d-c for short it's a mutation of my collagen so i also have eyesight issues and things like that that come along with collagen disorders so um dwarfism is definitely a disability and what makes a person disabled is how well you are able to navigate the world
00:15:29.69
Chapin Kartsounes
And so the more and more accessibility is taken away from us, the more and more disabled we will be and are.
00:15:40.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow, okay.
00:15:42.00
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
00:15:42.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's rough. um
00:15:43.94
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
00:15:46.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
and And right now, it must be such an increasingly difficult time because so many people are flipping out about DEI.
00:15:54.40
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep. It definitely is. It's stressful.
00:15:57.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now, you're also undergoing hormone therapy because you are transitioning. um
00:16:02.25
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes, I am.
00:16:03.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
Are there specific concerns that dwarfism um interacts with? that I mean, like, I don't even know how to phrase the question.
00:16:10.26
Chapin Kartsounes
No, no, you're right. You're valid. hu I had the same question myself when I started and i was looking around and I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't find anyone who has done testosterone.
00:16:23.23
Chapin Kartsounes
And now, um, two years into my transition transition, I have met people at this point. But um honestly, there is no research. um For lot of it, I am, i don't want to say guinea pig, but that's basically what I am.
00:16:42.47
Chapin Kartsounes
ah But I'm fine with that because if I didn't transition, i was not living a sustainable life. So it was either suffer or take the risk.
00:16:54.34
Chapin Kartsounes
And I'm two years in and I haven't had anything out of the ordinary.
00:16:54.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:16:58.62
Chapin Kartsounes
That's not typical for what they've seen from testosterone um hormone transition therapy. So yeah, I'm doing good and I'm i'm loving life.
00:17:08.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
That is trailblazing, man.
00:17:11.27
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:13.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Did you...
00:17:13.75
Chapin Kartsounes
And it's been awesome to meet other people from sharing my experience with that and find out that I'm not the only one. Yeah.
00:17:20.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
wow
00:17:21.43
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
00:17:22.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, I mean, i i know your parents, but um is this, i'm I'm wondering, like, I'm sure that they were, you know, loving and supportive just because I know what kind of people they are.
00:17:25.30
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:17:32.24
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
00:17:33.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
But ah apart from that, like outside of your home of origin, what what is, I mean, again, I'm not sure how to phrase the the question, but it seems like that's a lot.
00:17:34.11
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:17:41.82
Chapin Kartsounes
but You're good.
00:17:47.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
That that is a lot to be going on with.
00:17:47.66
Chapin Kartsounes
It is.
00:17:50.44
Chapin Kartsounes
It is. It's a lot. And no, you're good because sometimes when people ask that question, they phrase it as like, why would you add more struggle onto your life? But i exactly.
00:18:00.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, no, you you got to live authentically. that's Anything that's not authentic is an increased struggle.
00:18:04.82
Chapin Kartsounes
Right. Right. And that's how, exactly. So that's how people, some people see it. and But for me, I'm like, no, I took struggle off my life by transitioning
00:18:14.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, hiding is never the way to go.
00:18:14.90
Chapin Kartsounes
um Right, exactly. So yeah, it it definitely is tough to be part of those two groups, especially right now when disabled people and trans people are under such heavy attack.
00:18:29.46
Chapin Kartsounes
But also, it's beautiful because i have made such a large and strong support system that I'm like, I would have never been able to have this without living authentically and with pride.
00:18:45.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right on. Yeah, I maintain that the reason that the broligarchy is screwing with our social media is because they know the power of community.
00:18:46.96
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
00:18:55.72
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes, I actually posted about that on TikTok.
00:18:56.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
And they...
00:18:58.75
Chapin Kartsounes
I agree with that completely.
00:19:01.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I mean, and it's not... I mean, at first it was like, okay, well, Elon Musk is having a temper tantrum, go figure. Oh no, Mr.
00:19:08.52
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm.
00:19:09.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Entitled isn't having the whole world bend to his whim. How awful.
00:19:12.54
Chapin Kartsounes
Exactly.
00:19:13.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
He better buy it. But then when Zuckerberg was, I mean, Zuckerberg slays me because it's like he doesn't know that we know what Facebook was made for in the first place.
00:19:18.48
Chapin Kartsounes
yeah
00:19:25.20
Chapin Kartsounes
yeah Right.
00:19:28.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, because I'm a sex writer. And when I work the page from work, I get dinged all the time. Oh, you're talking about sex. Like, dude, this entire website was made so that dude bros at some fancy ass school could like let each other know which hot girls were DTF.
00:19:34.48
Chapin Kartsounes
Ugh.
00:19:41.46
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm.
00:19:46.07
Chapin Kartsounes
Exactly.
00:19:46.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's what Facebook is for. So to turn around and be like, oh, nipples. Oh, my goodness. Oh, I'm having the vapors.
00:19:51.77
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:19:53.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
Fuck you, man.
00:19:54.14
Chapin Kartsounes
Exactly.
00:19:55.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
you're not protecting people. You're wielding your power like every other white boy dude. were Excuse me, I better stop that.
00:20:02.36
Chapin Kartsounes
ye
00:20:04.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
00:20:05.68
Chapin Kartsounes
No, literally, though. It's all about censorship. It really is.
00:20:09.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, and it's it's baffling. I mean, i if you if you say cis on Twitter, though' they'll like shut your post down and not let anybody see it.
00:20:17.68
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
00:20:18.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
The word cis.
00:20:20.27
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes, yeah, you have to censor it It's aggravating.
00:20:20.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
And again... Well, I heard a rumor, and this is a rumor, so I'm presenting it as a rumor and not a fact, but, like, I guess a lot of Elon Musk's kids were made in a lab.
00:20:26.65
Chapin Kartsounes
but Allegedly.
00:20:33.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, i I can't speak to the validity of that, but what I heard is that, like, he is paying extra to have male children because he thinks that's important, and that's why he's so salty that one of his kids is trans.
00:20:35.81
Chapin Kartsounes
No way. Uh-huh.
00:20:45.61
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm.
00:20:49.44
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah, I would really not put eugenics above him.
00:20:53.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
oh No, exactly.
00:20:54.12
Chapin Kartsounes
Like, yeah, that...
00:20:54.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's like, well, but but he's from slavery money.
00:20:58.54
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:20:58.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
it's Surely a guy who benefited from apartheid isn't going to do something all weird and fucked up like that.
00:20:58.74
Chapin Kartsounes
yeah
00:21:02.94
Chapin Kartsounes
You would think, you would think.
00:21:04.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
May Musk seems so nice.
00:21:06.07
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh my god. No, I really feel for his trans daughter, though, and ah it's I can't imagine that.
00:21:12.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh my God, she's so funny. do you follow her on threads?
00:21:14.19
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes, she is.
00:21:15.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
She is wonderful.
00:21:15.72
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes. Yes, she is. She's funny and she says it like it is and I love that.
00:21:22.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's always great when the kids of bad people come out and are like, ahem, no.
00:21:27.38
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
00:21:27.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because, you know, Kellyanne Conway had that daughter who did that, and she just cracked me up.
00:21:27.62
Chapin Kartsounes
did you
00:21:30.83
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh my gosh. That was amazing. I remember that. And did you even see hit the ex, the little baby, all the things he's been saying in the Oval Office and whatnot?
00:21:39.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I know he told Donald Trump he's not the president he needs to go sit down or whatever.
00:21:43.81
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
00:21:45.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
I've been calling that kid Kevlar, but I guess that's rude.
00:21:46.08
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. it and that li That clip kills me of him leaning forward being like, shush!
00:21:51.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and the thing that's so funny is that, I don't know if you know, but I have like a special interest in Don Jr.
00:21:52.95
Chapin Kartsounes
hu
00:21:57.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
So I got to tell Don Jr., hey, look at that toddler standing up to your dad.
00:21:57.99
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes, I didn't know that.
00:22:02.64
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:22:03.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
Bet you wish you had the spine of a toddler.
00:22:03.78
Chapin Kartsounes
Like, oh my god.
00:22:07.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
you
00:22:08.46
Chapin Kartsounes
That's amazing. yeah
00:22:10.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, he's a very bad man.
00:22:12.25
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes, he really is.
00:22:12.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
Um... And I'd spent a long time thinking that Don Jr.
00:22:14.20
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
00:22:16.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
was not a very bad man. And so now I feel stupid and I'm mad about it.
00:22:18.26
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:22:22.48
Chapin Kartsounes
I get it. We think we can save them, but sometimes you just can't. It's that that nature and the nurture.
00:22:29.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, you know, it's this whole thing with, I mean... I'm sure it's difficult to go from being rich to not being rich. Like, I'm sure that's a thing.
00:22:38.29
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. Right.
00:22:40.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
So if you are used to being rich and protected, yeah, it probably sucks to suddenly be like, oh no, I might have to get a job like a person.
00:22:45.36
Chapin Kartsounes
Definitely.
00:22:48.58
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:22:48.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
But weaker men have done far more with far less.
00:22:51.50
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep. i agree
00:22:53.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it's funny because I was just ah talking to some some of my British friends online about Camilla and Like, i I refer to Camilla as the patron saint of mistresses, because it's like, see, you wait and you wait and you wait and you wait, and then when you're really, really, really old, you get the guy you wanted.
00:23:13.26
Chapin Kartsounes
ye
00:23:13.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it's so sad and gross and everything, because, you know, don't don't sleep with married men. But anyway, it just...
00:23:19.60
Chapin Kartsounes
Right. The drama.
00:23:23.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, but the thing about it is there are people that want to argue, well, Charles was in an impossible decision. And in itated like, oh, no, he might have only been a Duke if he walked away.
00:23:32.71
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:23:33.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
And like, oh, no, he would have been slightly less whatever you get for being part of the British monarchy.
00:23:34.81
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh, no. Right. yeah Yep.
00:23:40.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
As far as I can tell, it's a bunch of dumb hats and a lot of parades and whatnot. I don't really see the appeal.
00:23:45.51
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep. That's the thing is they're always like, I'm losing it all.
00:23:47.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
But.
00:23:49.63
Chapin Kartsounes
And it's like, okay, but your rock bottom is still like my sunny day.
00:23:54.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right, right. Well, and someone I, like, have never talked to a day in my life was like, well, I guess you should feel lucky that, like, you can and make your own choice.
00:23:56.28
Chapin Kartsounes
So.
00:24:04.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'm like, bitch, my family of origin has not said a friggin' word to me since they found out I was engaged to a Black guy.
00:24:10.18
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:24:13.28
Chapin Kartsounes
Right. Yes.
00:24:13.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know? i mean, we were, that that wasn't, like, the first thing that ever, like, split us apart, but for heaven's sake, it's like,
00:24:14.91
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
00:24:19.88
Chapin Kartsounes
Right, but it was the straw that broke the camel's back.
00:24:22.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, sometimes making a choice has consequences.
00:24:26.73
Chapin Kartsounes
Exactly.
00:24:26.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's not an excuse to be a coward. And that seems to be the overarching theme in American politics right now is that there are cowards goddamn everywhere.
00:24:28.79
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
00:24:34.64
Chapin Kartsounes
yes Everywhere.
00:24:37.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
People with power, with money, who would be safe even after taking a stand, and they still don't do it.
00:24:43.88
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah, that's so true. ah And that's what's frustrating is then there's all these people like us on the ground floor saying all these things and risking our jobs, risking our friendships, our family relationships, and so they're just like, you guys are the threat.
00:24:53.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mhm.
00:25:00.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. And all these comfortable ass people that are like, oh, maybe we should just vote with MAGA. Well, maybe you fucking shouldn't.
00:25:06.92
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. if i Yeah.
00:25:08.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, John Fetterman can blow me.
00:25:09.78
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
00:25:11.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:25:11.94
Chapin Kartsounes
Exactly. Oh, God.
00:25:14.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, I am going to have a penis attached to my body specifically so he can blow it.
00:25:19.78
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes, exactly.
00:25:21.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's how mad I am.
00:25:22.59
Chapin Kartsounes
i know, i get so fired up about it.
00:25:27.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, um, it is not a good time to be transitioning in America, but you are in ah a relatively blue state. Um, has your experience in terms of, um,
00:25:35.63
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
00:25:39.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, like the red tape, like, are you having trouble seeing your doctor? Are you able to afford the things that you need? That sort of thing. How how' is the system treating you?
00:25:48.78
Chapin Kartsounes
um For me, since I am 26 and well over 19, 18, I haven't had many changes. med prices, like my hormone prices have gone up, but I don't know if that's just because of the new year. And I've also changed insurances. I don't know if it's gone into that.
00:26:08.27
Chapin Kartsounes
But I have had um a lot of friends that have been dealing with things like ah coverage for their hormones, cost of their hormones.
00:26:19.79
Chapin Kartsounes
I know people that are 19 and under that are having trouble getting access to their hormones, even though they've been on them. And that's really tough because going off your hormones, cold turkey,
00:26:32.95
Chapin Kartsounes
is really hard to do. Anyone who has natural hormone imbalances knows how much it sucks. And to have your system go from one end to the other that drastically, it can really throw your your mental and physical health through a loop. And to think about the fact that adults are putting young, like young adults and older teens through these things.
00:26:57.93
Chapin Kartsounes
It's just like, why, what are you gaining from this causing them pain and health problems? Like.
00:27:02.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and the thing about that is, and is I know just from mental health meds, that stopping them suddenly and and things about hormones, I mean, like, that's a joke.
00:27:07.35
Chapin Kartsounes
ah
00:27:09.81
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
00:27:12.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, when someone is acting out, one of the things someone might say is, what are you, hormonal?
00:27:12.68
Chapin Kartsounes
yeah
00:27:16.87
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
00:27:17.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
and Hormones are not a joke.
00:27:17.60
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
00:27:19.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
They're they were a big deal.
00:27:20.81
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
00:27:20.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
And yet, when kids, and when anyone has their medication mixed with, they're still expected to, like, be polite and go to school and sit still and do their jobs and drive and do, like,
00:27:28.78
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm.
00:27:32.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
All these different things that they may or may not be capable of doing.
00:27:34.20
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm.
00:27:37.06
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
00:27:37.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
And yet people don't want to recognize what an enormous struggle and issue that can be.
00:27:42.29
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes. Exactly. I completely agree. And then not only that, but then these like teenagers, they're they're thinking that they're never going to get this again. they're they're thinking all or nothing. They're having that scarcity ah mindset because that's all they've known because they haven't been able to get into that adulthood, building your family and your community and your support and your medical team.
00:28:10.19
Chapin Kartsounes
So it's just really scary to think about. having the physical effects of um hormonal changes as well as the external effects of having your life-saving medication taken from you.
00:28:25.58
Chapin Kartsounes
Because a lot of trans people say that our hormones are mood stabilizers for us because how I see my testosterone is that it it changed my life because it gave me the ability to live my life without...
00:28:31.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure. chair
00:28:41.55
Chapin Kartsounes
the lens of insecurity that I had before. So before, almost all of my actions, my thoughts, my perceptions of things were based in how insecure I was about myself.
00:28:52.90
Chapin Kartsounes
And now that I'm starting to feel love about the way I look, the way I feel, the way I'm presenting, i approach things so much, different so way differently than I did before.
00:29:06.94
Chapin Kartsounes
And so when I go off my hormones for different reasons, I start to get all emotional and irritable and all those things. And I just really fear for people who don't have the coping skills, the support, the resources to get through that period.
00:29:24.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, yeah. And then when that's coupled with the tearing down of of support structures and people, you know, like Zuckerberg recently made it okay to tell trans people that they're mentally ill, that like that fits in with community guidelines, to which a lot of people said, oops, this is clearly not my community.
00:29:31.41
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
00:29:37.17
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
00:29:43.97
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:29:44.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
Um, which Which is a shame.
00:29:46.00
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
00:29:47.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, you know, it really, like, there is part of the MAGA psyche that MAGA people get really angry if they don't find you attractive and and just like them.
00:30:01.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
They're mad if you're happy.
00:30:03.72
Chapin Kartsounes
That's what i I always say that they look at themselves and they're like, how do I fit the standard of what society wants at in a conventionally attractive person? Yeah, I have so much self-hatred.
00:30:17.62
Chapin Kartsounes
But then they look at me and they they literally think, because they say this comment on all my videos all the time, they literally think, how low can life get? and But then they see me happy.
00:30:29.77
Chapin Kartsounes
They see me with relationships. They see me with friends. They see me successful in my career. They see me getting degrees. And they're like, how? And so that's that's what makes them so mad. And that's honestly a reflection of them. And it has nothing to do with me.
00:30:45.41
Chapin Kartsounes
So.
00:30:45.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and that's that's another thing that MAGA is doing right now.
00:30:46.64
Chapin Kartsounes
ah
00:30:50.13
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
00:30:50.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, they went through the Arlington website and took out all the accomplishments of people who are black, who are ah brown, who are Hispanic, all the women, you know, people who are Jewish, people who are gay.
00:30:56.99
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm.
00:31:00.76
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
00:31:03.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
um but We would have found out later about most of those because, you know, was back when gay people weren't supposed to serve.
00:31:05.80
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:31:09.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
Shh, don't ask, don't tell.
00:31:10.29
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:31:11.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
um but But that's the thing. They don't want people to have role models because they know. They know representation is important, and that's why they don't want everyone to have it. They want their kids to have it, and that's all.
00:31:24.90
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
00:31:25.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, it's...
00:31:25.66
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
00:31:26.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it's just this whole... and i what one of the things that I try to do here is just to point out that, like, yes, these are big, sweeping things that are, like...
00:31:38.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, they they go across these wide swathe demographics of the country. But the people, the individual people that are being hurt by this, you know, these are not numbers.
00:31:50.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
They're human beings that when you say, you know, hey, we're not going to we're going to jail people if they take their trans kids to a doctor.
00:31:51.04
Chapin Kartsounes
Right. Mm-hmm.
00:31:58.45
Chapin Kartsounes
Right. Mm-hmm.
00:31:59.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
My buddy had to send his kids out of state to live with his ex because he couldn't take one of his kids to the doctor without the risk of jail.
00:32:03.23
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm.
00:32:08.17
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
00:32:08.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, that's obscene.
00:32:10.60
Chapin Kartsounes
It really is. It truly is. And it's just like... Hold on, sorry. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why going back to talking about how they're trying to censor social media to ah go with their specific morals.
00:32:29.87
Chapin Kartsounes
um It's because of how we we are able to build communities that are so strong and we're able to share our stories while they're erasing history.
00:32:41.15
Chapin Kartsounes
We're able to connect with other people in our area. We're able to share resources and answers to questions that we have about things that we're going through. and without that, we're able, they're able to just keep us hidden in the shadows, just like they used to back when ugly laws were a thing.
00:33:01.48
Chapin Kartsounes
And disabled people and people who were different weren't allowed to be in public without disgusting people. It's just really frustrating.
00:33:11.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and the thing is that, like, Disney has hopped on that train. And boy, am I mad about it. Like, I've always had issues with Disney because, you know, I think a lot of, like, the Disney philosophy is everyone is exactly what they look like.
00:33:27.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
No surprises.
00:33:27.41
Chapin Kartsounes
Right. Yeah.
00:33:28.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
The only time there's a surprise is if they're evil and they're hiding and they're tricking someone, you know.
00:33:32.66
Chapin Kartsounes
Right. Mm-hmm.
00:33:34.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
But Disney, like, I don't know if you read any of my stuff for culturists. I've been writing for culturists.
00:33:37.78
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
00:33:39.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I just wrote up that they canceled the Princess Tiana series, which was their first black princess ever, like almost 100 years of programming over 80 years and like 100 and some movies.
00:33:44.36
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm.
00:33:51.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
Finally, one black princess and she was going to get a show.
00:33:52.03
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:33:55.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
And they were like, actually, no, let's not do that. And there was going to be a Moana show for a while. And they just shortened it to like a second feature film. And then that was it.
00:34:05.13
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm.
00:34:05.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then. They had a trans character that was supposed to be on their new show, ah Win or Lose.
00:34:10.64
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm.
00:34:11.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
That show had a trans character, and they hired a trans actress to play her, and kept the actress, and then, like, cis-washed the role, so there is not a trans child.
00:34:16.80
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm.
00:34:21.36
Chapin Kartsounes
Ugh.
00:34:22.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
But there was a child on the show that was praying to Heavenly Father.
00:34:26.19
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh my.
00:34:27.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
So...
00:34:27.54
Chapin Kartsounes
it's always yup It's always one-sided.
00:34:28.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
So they're they're not fucking around over there. They're they're full MAGA. And it's just gross because, yes, obviously Disney is a company, so their job is to like make money for shareholders or whatever. But, I mean, the cultural impact of what Disney does is insane.
00:34:46.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's huge and unstoppable, and they know that.
00:34:46.75
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep.
00:34:50.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
So when they're all like, oh, well, we want to give parents a chance to talk about serious issues with their kids. Like, dude, you have parents die in the open of like half your movies.
00:35:01.18
Chapin Kartsounes
Every movie, every movie, there's one parent dead.
00:35:02.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah Okay, so... Let's not say like I mean, you know, like, like Cinderella is not, you know like, I don't know.
00:35:07.48
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:35:13.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's, it's, they're such liars.
00:35:14.79
Chapin Kartsounes
No.
00:35:15.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's so disingenuous. And that is one of the more frustrating things about it.
00:35:17.16
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
00:35:19.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's like, oh no, we're just innocently giving parents a choice on this one issue and just this one. So it, it really bums me out.
00:35:27.17
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
00:35:28.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
but Well, you work with kids. I mean, what do you think the impact of that is?
00:35:30.78
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep. I was going to say, and i the fact that Disney is geared towards children and they're always talking about how trans people and queer people are child groomers, yet all they do is push their agendas on their children's networks and in their classrooms. And yet we can't even talk about our own personal lives without being threatened to be put on a child grooming list.
00:35:56.81
Chapin Kartsounes
So... I just think that's crazy. And Disney is very impactful. um Mickey Mouse is everywhere. ah Mickey and Minnie are everywhere. Every child knows Mickey and Minnie, aside from Elsa, all the princesses, all that.
00:36:12.48
Chapin Kartsounes
And I think it's really funny that they are removing Tiana and Princess and the Frog because a lot of Black people have an issue with that movie because Tiana is Black for, like,
00:36:24.67
Chapin Kartsounes
three seconds of the movie before she turns to a frog. And then she's a frog for like 85% of the movie. So the fact that they couldn't even have her be black on screen for 15 minutes is really insulting, disrespectful, and disingenuine, just like you said.
00:36:31.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:36:43.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, but that's that weird segregation that happens.
00:36:43.79
Chapin Kartsounes
And that's... oh
00:36:47.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, if you you should have ah a Black person in your movie because of representation, but once the Black person is the lead, then it's a Black movie.
00:36:50.89
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm.
00:36:54.54
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm.
00:36:55.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
It can't be just a movie anymore.
00:36:55.90
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep. Right. Right. Exactly. And that's because you only have two movies with black characters.
00:37:06.49
Chapin Kartsounes
If it was a normal thing, we wouldn't think twice about it.
00:37:10.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, wait, I have to ask if you're including Song of the South in that.
00:37:15.00
Chapin Kartsounes
um so Song of the what? Sorry. No.
00:37:17.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
Song of the South. Oh, are you not familiar with Disney's Song of the South?
00:37:23.11
Chapin Kartsounes
no
00:37:24.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, it is a black-led movie, and it's ah Uncle Remus, and he's talking about tar babies and whatnot.
00:37:25.85
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
00:37:30.93
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh God. Wait, actually, i think I have seen that when I was a kid.
00:37:32.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, it was...
00:37:35.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
Probably. It was vaulted for the longest time because people said, finally someone said, hey, wait a minute.
00:37:36.85
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. Yep.
00:37:41.81
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. ah Why are we showing this to children?
00:37:45.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, when I was a kid, ah Fantasia still had Sunflower, the ah but the slave horse.
00:37:51.55
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:37:51.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
and And it it's one of those things. I mean, Little Mermaid was in the 90s and they had that like Al Jogelson blackfish, you know, the jet blackfish with the big red lips.
00:37:57.92
Chapin Kartsounes
and
00:38:03.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. Yeah, that, I mean, Disney?
00:38:05.85
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep. It's not long ago at all.
00:38:09.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, no, i was i was in college for a Little Mermaid.
00:38:09.42
Chapin Kartsounes
And so, yeah, exactly. And that's why it's like, um everyone's like, oh my gosh, as soon as they remove DEI, people are, all these big companies are pulling back and those of us are bad.
00:38:22.03
Chapin Kartsounes
have been in these groups that have been represented this way, we're like, yeah, shocker. They were still making jokes about us up until last night.
00:38:27.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, yep.
00:38:30.05
Chapin Kartsounes
Like, yeah, pretty much every time I go and watch a movie that I used to like, there is a midget or dwarf joke or a trans joke and or sometimes both.
00:38:31.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
yep
00:38:41.55
Chapin Kartsounes
And I'm always shocked. I'm like, oh my gosh, that was in there.
00:38:44.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and, I mean, the MCU, the very first Iron Man movie, has jokes that, and I mean, I want to say...
00:38:49.88
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
00:38:54.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, I don't... I'm trying to think if they actually used the word tranny, but I don't think they did.
00:38:58.42
Chapin Kartsounes
Mmm.
00:38:58.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
I think they just said, you know, you were with so-and-so and they were a man.
00:39:00.56
Chapin Kartsounes
Something similar.
00:39:02.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
So they basically called a ah either either a drag performer or a trans woman a man.
00:39:03.30
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. Yeah.
00:39:08.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
And we don't know which it is, but...
00:39:08.87
Chapin Kartsounes
Right. Mm-hmm. Ugh, just something, yeah. I swear, they have it in everything.
00:39:13.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
But it's, it's yeah.
00:39:17.20
Chapin Kartsounes
I can't think of a specific example, but they'll they'll either have a little joke or they'll have someone like a male character dressing up as a woman for it to be the butt of the joke or to be crazy or something like that.
00:39:30.17
Chapin Kartsounes
Or they'll be like, they'll say something like, why do you, why are you dressed like a man? du I don't know. There's always something. And yeah, I know for other communities that's true as well because it all falls under the white supremacy umbrella and that's just what's so ingrained in our society.
00:39:45.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:39:49.14
Chapin Kartsounes
Like I'm unlearn, I'm even learning unlearning white supremacy. We're all unlearning white supremacy every day. I'm unlearning ableism every day because like we've talked about this whole time, language is changing.
00:40:02.10
Chapin Kartsounes
We're learning more information about each other, about the world, about our impact in the world. every day. So we have to, as a society and as people, take accountability and understand that sometimes we were wrong and now it's time to grow so we can help everyone.
00:40:23.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, um I was a teenager in the 80s. And comedy movies in the 80s?
00:40:31.33
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh God, they were bad.
00:40:31.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Yeah, it's it's pretty embarrassing now to look back because I was in my 30s when an Asian man explained to me... why he did not like the movie 16 Candles.
00:40:44.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Cause I was like, what, why? oh wait, I know why you don't like it because the leading male sets his ex-girlfriend up to be assaulted sexually by Anthony Michael Hall's character.
00:40:53.67
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:40:55.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
So maybe that's why you don't like it.
00:40:55.32
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:40:56.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
And he actually had to explain to me that he was growing up an Asian boy in a, in a white high school when that movie was out and there was a character called Long Duck Dong and he was an exchange student.
00:41:10.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I don't know if you're familiar with that at all, but it is real, real, real racist.
00:41:10.45
Chapin Kartsounes
hey
00:41:13.89
Chapin Kartsounes
um Yeah. sounds
00:41:17.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
and
00:41:17.41
Chapin Kartsounes
Sounds like it.
00:41:18.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I just didn't, oh no, I mean like, yeah, stereotypical accent.
00:41:21.39
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
00:41:22.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
that Well, Ken Watanabe, who is kind of known for playing those kinds of roles and taking a lot of shit from the agent Asian community and just saying like, hey man, I just wanted to be an actor and that's what I was hired for.
00:41:23.85
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:41:29.20
Chapin Kartsounes
He is the tropes.
00:41:32.48
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
00:41:36.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, you know, and yeah,
00:41:37.23
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
00:41:39.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it's a tough call. I mean, if you've always dreamed to be an actor, it's not my business to tell you that you shouldn't.
00:41:40.46
Chapin Kartsounes
It is.
00:41:45.60
Chapin Kartsounes
Right, right. And that's why we have to really work to fix the system surrounding because yeah, like, like you said, you were 30 years old, but that's all there was of Asian representation at that time.
00:41:47.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know?
00:42:00.82
Chapin Kartsounes
Like, well, that's fair.
00:42:01.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, no there was more. I just didn't go looking for it because I wasn't thinking about it and didn't, you know...
00:42:06.02
Chapin Kartsounes
And ah I love that. I love that you acknowledge that. That is fair and and a great point.
00:42:10.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I definitely had opportunities to know more than I did.
00:42:11.24
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
00:42:14.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
I was raised by, um you know, rednecky conservative types, you know, that thought, you know, charity was stupid and you didn't want too much fancy book learning because how would I land a husband that way?
00:42:14.90
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:42:18.68
Chapin Kartsounes
huh
00:42:25.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, you know, smart for your own good.
00:42:26.19
Chapin Kartsounes
Right. Right. All the traditional bullshit. Yeah.
00:42:30.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's the thing used to say to me. I'm too smart for my own good.
00:42:33.89
Chapin Kartsounes
Right. That's always how I felt too. yeah
00:42:39.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
00:42:39.38
Chapin Kartsounes
But yeah.
00:42:39.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
so um But yeah, like, that's the thing about, like, when you grow up, and I mean, if something's in a movie, you see it in a movie theater, everyone's laughing at it, so it seems very normal.
00:42:51.82
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
00:42:51.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it it literally normalizes humor that is cruel, humor that is ignorant.
00:42:56.92
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
00:42:58.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
And the thing is that the reason that MAGA philosophy, I think, is so widespread isn't because people are having their minds changed.
00:43:09.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's because they're seeing these things being normalized and being like, yes, I've been saying that for so long.
00:43:13.50
Chapin Kartsounes
ah Exactly.
00:43:15.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
Those people are weird. Why should I have to look at them? Like, you know, and it's, it's like we were saying it's, it's about the community.
00:43:18.87
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:43:23.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
And if the community standards are suddenly that we're all going to collectively be assholes to people we don't like, well, I want to say who the people are that we don't like.
00:43:31.32
Chapin Kartsounes
yep
00:43:34.50
Chapin Kartsounes
ah right
00:43:36.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Um, and So, like, but what do we do about it? I mean, you're an activist. what What are you doing to to make things better? Hmm.
00:43:46.12
Chapin Kartsounes
um I am just educating people on what dwarfism is, um what being trans is. And I'm sharing my story because apparently people need to know, they need to know the intimacy of it. They need to know someone, they need to be able to relate.
00:44:04.99
Chapin Kartsounes
I just try to really show who I am and show that maybe you would like me if you stopped listening to all the fear mongering and the brainwashing and the misinformation that's out there.
00:44:19.88
Chapin Kartsounes
Or if you let me teach you something about history, because when we're talking about repeating history, that's what's happening. And you're you're like, these things have been said forever now.
00:44:32.33
Chapin Kartsounes
And now they're just louder. And we fought these things before. We can fight them again, ah but we just need people to know our history in order to have the motivation and to know to get past the shock and awe of it all and know that there is something we can do. We can use our voices and they do matter.
00:44:55.19
Chapin Kartsounes
calling people to call their representatives, calling people to protest, speaking out on social media, um speaking out in your interpersonal conversations in your daily life.
00:45:07.49
Chapin Kartsounes
All of those things, they matter. And ah the representation that we have in media, it directly influences the way people treat us. We hear comments about things that are on TV all the time from strangers on the street. And we get compared to Peter Dinklage all the time on the street.
00:45:28.43
Chapin Kartsounes
And some of us have no similar characteristics to Peter Dinklage except height and the fact that we have dwarfism, even though it's a completely different type sometimes.
00:45:38.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wait, wait.
00:45:38.90
Chapin Kartsounes
And ah yeah, exactly.
00:45:39.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
you You drink and you know things. Come on, admit it.
00:45:43.06
Chapin Kartsounes
That's true. I do relate to him on that one. And I do have a little bit of a curly, shaggy haircut. But... No, honestly, though, it's like, we just need to educate people on history, on who we are on our stories. I really I'm always encouraging people as they're comfortable to share their stories, because I think that's how you ensure that history is never erased and keep culture alive.
00:46:15.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes. Now, i I completely agree with that.
00:46:15.98
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
00:46:18.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
I want to draw attention to one thing you said, which is, as you are comfortable, and and as an addendum to that, as you are safe.
00:46:23.41
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
00:46:27.43
Chapin Kartsounes
That too.
00:46:27.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because we know that trans people, for example, it's not always safe to come out.
00:46:33.30
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh, no.
00:46:33.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
and And I think that whenever we talk about the opportunity and the responsibility that people in invulnerable demographics have,
00:46:45.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
to make their stories heard, we have to at the same time acknowledge, and i don't want to suggest that you weren't doing that. I'm just giving it some voice because it's a podcast.
00:46:51.74
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh, no, no. No, no, right.
00:46:54.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
00:46:54.62
Chapin Kartsounes
This is you preaching to the masses.
00:46:55.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
But that that no one should feel obligated to be a representative of a demographic just because they're part of it.
00:47:04.22
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
00:47:04.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know?
00:47:05.31
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
00:47:05.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
And like, because i was I was kind of apprehensive about this interview because, you know, even though I know you a little bit outside this,
00:47:13.71
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm.
00:47:13.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
I try to give a perspective that is helpful to someone who knows nothing about the topic, which kind of leads to questions that can make you feel like I'm asking you to like be an ambassador or for people with dwarfism.
00:47:19.95
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm.
00:47:26.11
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh, yeah. Redundant and all that. Right.
00:47:29.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then I was like, Oh, you like Billy Barty, right? yeah Wait, there's a dwarf card.
00:47:32.36
Chapin Kartsounes
No, you're so good. And I was like, oops, I haven't seen anything. I'd take away my dwarf card. yeah No, but we should.
00:47:39.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:47:41.02
Chapin Kartsounes
Well, I don't know. we We should make one. Okay.
00:47:44.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right. I have a woman card. I got it from Hillary.
00:47:47.07
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh my gosh. Wait, I remember that.
00:47:48.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, it's dope.
00:47:49.21
Chapin Kartsounes
I have a, well, I have a little people of America membership card, so I'll take that.
00:47:52.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, you, so you, you literally have dwarf.
00:47:53.13
Chapin Kartsounes
yeah
00:47:57.39
Chapin Kartsounes
I love it. No, but, um, uh, what was, what was the point before that about, oh, as you're safe. Yes, I completely agree with that. And that's why those of us who have been able, i always call my level of support group that I've built a privilege. Like I feel privileged every day to know that no matter what, I always have someone who's going to have my back, even if that's holding me accountable and telling, helping me grow.
00:48:24.40
Chapin Kartsounes
um I have built this community and I'm so privileged for that. And I think, those of us who have that, that are able to speak out, we have to do so for people that aren't able to.
00:48:38.24
Chapin Kartsounes
I speak out for like trans kids because they, Kids in general have absolutely no rights that are their own.
00:48:48.86
Chapin Kartsounes
And then trans kids, marginalized kids, they have even less. So i we can't expect them to come and share their stories about how all these things being taken away from them feels.
00:49:01.29
Chapin Kartsounes
And so we have to listen to the adults that are able to share how it would feel for us if we were in their position back then. And yeah, I just think it's really important um to listen to people as they speak to share when you can. And then also growing up,
00:49:25.20
Chapin Kartsounes
this growing up visibly disabled, a lot of people don't understand that you are like walking, talking advocacy, walking, talking teacher.
00:49:35.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:49:36.07
Chapin Kartsounes
um And that's any visible difference because like even something as simple as going to the grocery store and shopping, that's someone saying, oh my gosh, little people go to the grocery store and store and shop.
00:49:47.87
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh my gosh, little people can push a shopping cart. So we kind of grow up like answering these redundant questions and teaching people and it is very exhausting.
00:49:59.85
Chapin Kartsounes
So you have to, you have to like weigh your pros and cons and weigh where you're at at that time. ah But there's a lot of times that ah most of us are more than willing to answer questions as long as the person respects us as a human being. And that, and we can always tell when you don't.
00:50:18.75
Chapin Kartsounes
And we can always tell when somebody is trying to bait us with curiosity just to come back and dehumanize us or preach eugenics.
00:50:28.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
Jesus Christ, I'm so sorry.
00:50:29.99
Chapin Kartsounes
You're good. No, you're good.
00:50:30.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
I had had my Do Not Disturb on. I don't know how he's even able to reach me.
00:50:34.06
Chapin Kartsounes
ah Oh my God.
00:50:35.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it's like my weird friend I don't even need to talk to.
00:50:36.09
Chapin Kartsounes
You're so good.
00:50:39.72
Chapin Kartsounes
It always is. You just reminded me.
00:50:41.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
Damn it, Jim.
00:50:41.60
Chapin Kartsounes
I don't, I don't even think I have my do not disturb on right now.
00:50:42.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know
00:50:44.44
Chapin Kartsounes
So good thing mine hasn't come on, but yeah, that's,
00:50:46.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
And now everybody knows that my ringtone is Matchbox 20.
00:50:51.23
Chapin Kartsounes
It's okay.
00:50:51.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh no, actually, that's that's Santana with Rob Thomas, but still.
00:50:51.55
Chapin Kartsounes
Mine is...
00:50:56.04
Chapin Kartsounes
Mine is like an old song from All Time Low from like 2009.
00:50:56.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
i'm
00:51:00.04
Chapin Kartsounes
So it's okay.
00:51:04.84
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah, that was like my last thought though.
00:51:04.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right, so but but so you work but you work with students um and you work with young kids, but what I'm wondering is if you've got students who are in a marginalized demographic
00:51:10.47
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes. Yes.
00:51:18.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Do you have any input on how they can best advocate for themselves, like in a school environment?
00:51:24.99
Chapin Kartsounes
ah Yes, I do. I have had um and do have students from marginalized demographics. um I would say how they can advocate for themselves or how educators can advocate for them.
00:51:42.30
Chapin Kartsounes
which Which are you asking?
00:51:45.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
um I guess how students can advocate for themselves, but then also like what happens if they voice their needs clearly and are not heard?
00:51:46.14
Chapin Kartsounes
Huh.
00:51:54.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like what recourse is there? I mean, where're we could be straight up losing the Department of Education, which is terrifying um in in terms of marginalized kids in particular, because that's who's supposed to catch everybody that falls through the cracks.
00:52:00.05
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes. Yes, it is.
00:52:06.41
Chapin Kartsounes
hey Yes, exactly. It will hit them first and then trickle up. Yeah. um ah I can't even... I truly can't even imagine being in school right now because it was already so hard for me as a disabled kid who used IEP and 504 services to get those enforced, even though they are law and once they're in place, they have to be followed.
00:52:32.56
Chapin Kartsounes
And so now them removing these laws, pausing all this funding And appointing a woman who has absolutely no history and education and experience, ah it's truly scary.
00:52:46.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, and it's funny because I said, i said at the time, well, my God, it can't be worse than Betsy DeVos.
00:52:54.96
Chapin Kartsounes
Literally, we all thought.
00:52:55.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
And shut my mouth because certainly it certainly
00:52:59.22
Chapin Kartsounes
ye Yep, yep. We definitely... do not support Betsy DeVos in this house. And we definitely thought it couldn't get worse until Linda McMahon. But yeah, it's really frustrating um because if you don't have education experience, um you don't know what supports would benefit children in the classroom. I don't know how you would. um It's different than the supports that would benefit a child at home.
00:53:30.93
Chapin Kartsounes
They may overlap, but they're not the same. And I think a way that kids can advocate for advocate for themselves is just to try and build their community um with their peers, to find people like them, to look out for ah community and social organizations or events that might help them build community.
00:53:58.58
Chapin Kartsounes
Because honestly, sometimes you just have to get through it. um You as a kid, it's really hard to get educated on special education law. um And for me, I was lucky because I had not only um parents that were very educated and well versed on special education law, but also i had the Little People of America organization who had parents.
00:54:23.90
Chapin Kartsounes
people, ah parent coordinators who could help us advocate for ourselves. um And so with all that being taken away from the federal government, it's I don't know. It's very dark and dismal and there's definitely a sense of impending doom, but all I know is that the adults are still fighting to keep these protections in place so that we can cite the law and say, this is the law.
00:54:53.70
Chapin Kartsounes
um You need to follow these things and accommodate me so that I can reach my potential in school.
00:55:01.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right. Okay. Yeah, all all of that makes sense.
00:55:03.51
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. Yeah.
00:55:05.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
um it It is so scary. Like, i I feel fortunate that I am not a teacher because that that's what my mom wanted me to get into.
00:55:12.80
Chapin Kartsounes
yeah
00:55:15.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I said, I don't know. i don't know if that's... It seems real corporate-y.
00:55:19.97
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah, that's that was me too.
00:55:20.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
And...
00:55:23.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. um Now, I want to actually, on a more cheerful note, what do you love best about teaching pre-K?
00:55:28.75
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
00:55:32.69
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh my gosh. I love so much about teaching pre-K. I really love that we're teaching them the foundations of life. Like, yeah, we're teaching them the alphabet and numbers, but we're also teaching them how to wash their hands, how to blow their nose, how to take off take off their coat and unzip zip and unzip it, how to change their shoes, how to identify their name, um identify themselves in pictures. Like, we're teaching them all the things that it is important.
00:56:04.93
Chapin Kartsounes
to function in daily life. And they're just so entertaining. It's just so fun to watch them experience things that we take for granted for the first time. Like one day I lined all my students up for the drinking fountain and with each kid that tried the drinking fountain, I was like, I had to add on more directions because I didn't think Not to say, oh don't put your entire mouth over the thing or don't just stick your tongue out and try to lick the stream.
00:56:24.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:56:30.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
and
00:56:32.85
Chapin Kartsounes
You have to drink like a straw and then they're trying to put their mouth on the hole. And it was just hilarious because, you know, these are things that we just do second nature now, now years later, but they're learning for the first time.
00:56:45.54
Chapin Kartsounes
And it's just a beautiful thing to witness for sure. It's very, that's very rewarding. Yeah.
00:56:51.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's just so funny that you say that because I taught my husband how to cook. And that's, it was the same kind of situation. i would explain how something's supposed to go and then you have to say, okay, no, it never occurred to me that you would do it that way.
00:57:06.56
Chapin Kartsounes
yep.
00:57:07.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
You cannot do that.
00:57:07.39
Chapin Kartsounes
Exactly.
00:57:08.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
know Like, okay, i clearly I have not considered all the possible ways there are to make macaroni and cheese because whatever is happening here is is not...
00:57:09.22
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep. Yes.
00:57:19.22
Chapin Kartsounes
Not right.
00:57:20.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, no you have to boil the noodles and drain the water before you add any cheese at all.
00:57:20.84
Chapin Kartsounes
And I like...
00:57:25.46
Chapin Kartsounes
yeah Yes.
00:57:26.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, come on, dude.
00:57:27.36
Chapin Kartsounes
Literally.
00:57:28.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
You had a mom?
00:57:28.87
Chapin Kartsounes
and
00:57:29.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
What is happening here?
00:57:32.31
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh, my God. i cannot imagine. But that's the thing is that, like, I love working with this age group, the younger, the younger early childhood age, because it it has helped me heal my own life experiences and then giving me patience in my own life, because we're also learning things for the first time. Sometimes we're also experiencing things for the first time.
00:57:55.67
Chapin Kartsounes
And people grow with the resources they have. And so if you're not given the resources that you would need to grow and learn these things, then you might be learning them later than other people.
00:58:08.42
Chapin Kartsounes
But at least you're learning them and you're trying.
00:58:12.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm. Yep.
00:58:12.99
Chapin Kartsounes
So yeah, it's definitely given me a new outlook on life, working with this age group. there They're healing and it's awesome.
00:58:22.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
It sounds awesome.
00:58:23.36
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
00:58:24.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Now, I'm aware that you also educate people on disability history, and I'm a big proponent of history in general, particularly when it comes to social issues, because one of the things that I encountered, I was a Kamala ambassador for the last election, so I kind of made myself a nuisance i'm talking to everyone who would listen to me about how important the last election was.
00:58:29.25
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
00:58:35.78
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
00:58:40.50
Chapin Kartsounes
Awesome.
00:58:45.14
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:58:47.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
and And we didn't even take Michigan.
00:58:48.73
Chapin Kartsounes
That's amazing.
00:58:49.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
But don't don't get me started on that aspect of it.
00:58:50.44
Chapin Kartsounes
hey
00:58:52.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
I had the best meme ready to go for it, too.
00:58:52.34
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
00:58:54.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
oh But but the thing about one of the things I kept hearing was, oh, they'll never take this right away. We've always had that. And and it's things like abortion and and having your own bank account and being able to buy property and things that when my mom was a teenager, you couldn't do.
00:59:03.07
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm.
00:59:08.67
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm.
00:59:14.55
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
00:59:14.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, someone like if I have an abortion discussion and someone will say, well, aren't you glad your mom chose you?
00:59:15.25
Chapin Kartsounes
Exactly. Mm-hmm.
00:59:20.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, she didn't have a choice. Her choices were to stay with a man she knew didn't love her or risk dying in an alley somewhere.
00:59:22.60
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
00:59:27.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know, she didn't she didn't have any good choices because the world was set up to make sure that vulnerable women did not have good choices.
00:59:27.93
Chapin Kartsounes
Exactly. Mm-hmm.
00:59:37.28
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm.
00:59:38.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
And people that don't know their history.
00:59:38.40
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
00:59:40.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
feel like whatever is going on now is what's always been and it would be ridiculous to take it away.
00:59:46.74
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
00:59:46.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then you show them a picture of women in Iran in 1979 where they're wearing short skirts and high heeled shoes and their whole face is exposed.
00:59:50.88
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm.
00:59:54.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
And you say, no, that shit can go away in an instant.
00:59:55.38
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
00:59:59.35
Chapin Kartsounes
Right. Yeah, it was only 1977 when they were doing the sit-ins to protect Section 504. And I was actually just talking about this exact topic this morning on online um about in reference to The Greatest Showman, because um The Greatest Showman is the story of P.T.
01:00:16.63
Chapin Kartsounes
Barnum and the freak shows completely false falsified and glorified and inspiration porn.
01:00:17.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm. Yep.
01:00:23.44
Chapin Kartsounes
But um I was talking about it and being like, oh, everyone dancing and loving this musical. And then Meanwhile, here's people looked dwarfism and other disabilities being like, that's our generational trauma and abuse that you're dancing and singing to.
01:00:39.73
Chapin Kartsounes
And somebody had commented, it's just a movie. Why would you compare your life to a movie? Just like, get over it.
01:00:45.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh holy shit, what?
01:00:47.62
Chapin Kartsounes
And I was like, um because I, exactly, exactly.
01:00:48.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
What does the humanities have to do with humans?
01:00:52.46
Chapin Kartsounes
i was I commented back, first of all, isn't that what movies are for? what Why else would you watch a movie other than to try and relate to it?
01:00:56.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes.
01:01:00.82
Chapin Kartsounes
Two, um I know people who remember what it was like to be in the freak shows or had parents or close family members who were in freak shows or knew people who were in freak shows who could tell people what it was like.
01:01:15.71
Chapin Kartsounes
then versus now and the differences. And same with Section 504 sit-ins. I know many people who are still alive because, again, it was only 1977 that talk about how life was before those sit-ins versus once they started enforcing 504.
01:01:35.93
Chapin Kartsounes
five or four So for people to sit there and say, it's always been like this, we can't change it, or there's no use in changing it, or why do you care? Because we can change it we have changed it, and we'll do it again if they take it away.
01:01:52.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
So when it comes to ah disability history, um I think Stonewall is one of the things that, I mean, not not to to say that that it's it's ah you know a disability to to be gay or trans, but when we talk about like the history of why we acknowledge things today.
01:02:00.74
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
01:02:05.30
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
01:02:11.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
um I had a MAGA boy recently say, like, when is straight pride month?
01:02:18.16
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh my god.
01:02:18.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that always makes me laugh because my staple response is, oh, yeah, definitely tell me the story of the time that you finally stood up against your oppressors and said that you were going to be straight no matter what anybody else had to say about it.
01:02:28.91
Chapin Kartsounes
Right. Exactly.
01:02:33.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then the cops finally left you alone.
01:02:33.57
Chapin Kartsounes
Exactly.
01:02:35.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
When did that happen?
01:02:36.68
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. My response to that is, okay, go plan it. Because, you know, the problem they have with us a lot of the time is that we don't just have concepts of plans. We actually follow through plans.
01:02:49.11
Chapin Kartsounes
Sorry that the straight flag is boring. Sorry that you don't have a straight pride month. Sorry that you don't have this and that.
01:02:54.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, there is an International Men's Day, and the only time men care about it is on International Women's Day.
01:02:58.01
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
01:03:01.00
Chapin Kartsounes
Exactly. It's like, sorry, you can't plan.
01:03:03.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, it's like how February is, why isn't there a white history month?
01:03:04.44
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. Right, right.
01:03:07.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, bitch, there's 11 of them, look it up.
01:03:09.34
Chapin Kartsounes
Exactly.
01:03:10.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:03:10.58
Chapin Kartsounes
Exactly. Gosh. Honestly, there's 12 of them at this point. like
01:03:16.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
seriously well yeah because now people want to tell you white history like just to be defiant like all histories matter oh do they because I know some Native Americans who would like a word
01:03:17.45
Chapin Kartsounes
Gosh. But, yeah. Yep. I can't with that.
01:03:27.67
Chapin Kartsounes
Right, literally. They're like, we've been trying and you keep erasing us from databases, but whatever. That's sick.
01:03:35.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
it it really is I mean it's it's a tough time to be a decent person you know
01:03:36.26
Chapin Kartsounes
Gosh. yeah
01:03:40.62
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes, it really is. It honestly, it feels like you're going crazy because you're like, is am I in reality?
01:03:43.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
01:03:48.11
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes, I am, actually. It's
01:03:51.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. um
01:03:53.30
Chapin Kartsounes
tough.
01:03:53.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
So with regard to intersectionality, um I mean, I imagine that you, you have I mean, because you have dwarfism and are trans, that intersectionality is kind of an always thing with you.
01:04:02.92
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
01:04:06.57
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes, definitely.
01:04:06.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
um what ah What would you like to say about that?
01:04:11.51
Chapin Kartsounes
um I'd just like to say that I think that we really need to acknowledge that some people have different experiences with oppression and that's okay. It doesn't make anyone's experience more or less violent or life-threatening than the other.
01:04:32.24
Chapin Kartsounes
The thing is though, that sometimes we have to acknowledge that because sometimes one group is being hit harder than another at a certain point in time.
01:04:42.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:04:42.56
Chapin Kartsounes
And like, dirt I love to talk about disability history because it's a great example of intersection and how marginalized groups came together to help us fight for our rights. Talking about the 504 sit-ins again, ah the Black Panthers were huge allies to us, not just protesting for us, but literally washing protesters' hair, hand-feeding them, cleaning making sure they can get dressed and they have food and blankets and pillows and what have you.
01:05:16.64
Chapin Kartsounes
And people ask them, why are you helping us when you're also attacked and you also have little to no resources? And the Black Panthers were like, you're trying to make the world a better place.
01:05:27.69
Chapin Kartsounes
That's what we're about. Making the world a better place for whichever group is most vulnerable at that time is going to help all of us because once they take out the most vulnerable, they're going to come for you next.
01:05:40.53
Chapin Kartsounes
So.
01:05:41.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and that's another huge, like, MAGA philosophy thing. Like, why are you helping that person? They're not you.
01:05:47.11
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
01:05:47.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, if I speak out in defense of trans rights, people will assume I'm trans.
01:05:47.88
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
01:05:51.99
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
01:05:52.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
It happens to me a lot that I'm accused, you know, with air quotes, of being a trans person.
01:05:53.96
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. Yep. Yep.
01:05:58.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
And the whole attitude is, well, why are you saying all that stuff about trans persons if you're not trans?
01:06:03.04
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
01:06:03.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, because I'm not an asshole. And if I see somebody being hurt, especially if they're being hurt because of misinformation,
01:06:05.61
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm.
01:06:11.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
The only thing that makes sense is to address that and say the real information and to, you know, if somebody's being hurt for something that is completely out of their control or stupid, then, you know, you're an asshole for not stepping in and saying something like I don't.
01:06:15.04
Chapin Kartsounes
Exactly. Right.
01:06:29.09
Chapin Kartsounes
I agree.
01:06:30.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's that's a kindergarten thing. I mean, I'm sure you teach kids that all the time.
01:06:32.09
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep. Yes. That's the thing is sometimes I'm like teaching kids like early childhood. You're teaching take turns. You're teaching everyone's different and we should celebrate that.
01:06:45.86
Chapin Kartsounes
You're teaching all these things that all these adults are missing fundamentally in their approaches to life. And it's so frustrating when four-year-olds are getting it and I'm seeing this every day, but here we have grown adults who can't even say hi to their neighbor and listen to how their day went.
01:07:07.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and now that like playground style bullying is in the oval freaking office, I mean, you know, talk about normalizing ridiculous things.
01:07:13.37
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep. God. Yeah. You didn't even say please or thank you.
01:07:18.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, they're like inches away from saying like neener neener. And I mean.
01:07:22.92
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. that That whole Zelensky conversation literally, it honestly felt like something, like just a conversation between a group of children.
01:07:27.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, my God.
01:07:35.43
Chapin Kartsounes
It's honestly, it didn't even feel like that because I feel like kids would have understood more. Yeah.
01:07:40.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, that's the thing. If that was a room full of high school students, somebody at some point would have said, hey, come on, you guys, you're being dicks.
01:07:41.99
Chapin Kartsounes
ah Yeah.
01:07:47.54
Chapin Kartsounes
I completely agree. I completely agree.
01:07:48.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know At least where I hang out, there's like always going to be that one person.
01:07:51.73
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
01:07:53.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
i guess sometimes it's me, but that one person that's like, hey, hang on, hang on.
01:07:54.16
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. Right.
01:07:58.70
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
01:07:59.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
I want to say something different to what you're saying.
01:07:59.27
Chapin Kartsounes
And maybe they got...
01:08:02.08
Chapin Kartsounes
Right, and maybe they got made fun of, but they were still there.
01:08:05.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
Probably. Well, and again, that is a huge problem that we're having right now is just this rampant cowardice.
01:08:06.43
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
01:08:10.26
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes. The oligarchy. Yeah.
01:08:12.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
and And it's so frustrating because people say, oh, well, you wouldn't do anything about it.
01:08:13.14
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
01:08:19.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
I would. i would. If I could march right into the White House right now and say things to people, I 100% would.
01:08:21.28
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
01:08:23.58
Chapin Kartsounes
Literally. Literally. and Point my finger. Shake my fist.
01:08:28.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
i would tell the Donald precisely what I think of him.
01:08:31.80
Chapin Kartsounes
Me too.
01:08:32.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Hmm.
01:08:32.82
Chapin Kartsounes
Me too.
01:08:33.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
There's actually a story that I tell on occasion, and which I'm about to tell now, is that, um no, there was there was this um time that I was on LSD, because, you know, I'd be doing that in my twenty s so
01:08:33.99
Chapin Kartsounes
ah
01:08:38.14
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes, let's go.
01:08:46.82
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah, you have to.
01:08:47.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
and um And I found out from a guy who was in school with with Don Jr., because I've been a fan of Don Jr. for ah long, long time. I had been.
01:08:57.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
I always thought he was just this scrappy little badass who was surrounded by assholes and that he was going to fight really hard and turn out good.
01:09:02.07
Chapin Kartsounes
I mean, they thought that about Baron, too. Yep. Yeah.
01:09:05.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, but ah
01:09:07.07
Chapin Kartsounes
yeah
01:09:09.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
but i I had found out from him that ah Don Jr.'s dad had like gone to visit him at Penn and um And I didn't know like the whole story at the time. What I heard was that um he went there to see him.
01:09:23.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
And when he opened his door to his dorm room, his dad like smacked him so hard he fell down. and then he just walked out.
01:09:30.18
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh my god. Yeah.
01:09:31.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
So I thought that he like basically drove all the way up there just to hit him.
01:09:36.91
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
01:09:36.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
And.
01:09:37.94
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
01:09:37.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
And when I found out about it, again, acid, and I was so mad.
01:09:41.18
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep. You're like, no!
01:09:42.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I started like, I was mad.
01:09:43.28
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
01:09:45.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
And what made me the maddest was that nobody did anything about it.
01:09:49.50
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
01:09:49.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like from the story that I heard and my buddy wasn't even there. He like heard it from people on campus and it was my my friend's brother.
01:09:54.80
Chapin Kartsounes
Uh-huh.
01:09:56.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
But anyway, yeah. So, so I was so mad that I started yelling at my friends to drive me to New York because I was going to kick Donald Trump's ass.
01:10:04.85
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh my god.
01:10:06.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, oh, that's it, man.
01:10:07.08
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
01:10:08.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'm taking him to task.
01:10:10.10
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah, I've been there.
01:10:10.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, ah yeah, luck luckily no one was fit to to drive, so that did not in fact take place, but...
01:10:11.80
Chapin Kartsounes
ah
01:10:16.09
Chapin Kartsounes
my god. They're like, hide the keys, hide the keys. That's amazing. Yeah, I've been there definitely under the influence cursing out the government.
01:10:26.49
Chapin Kartsounes
Like, let me tweet something! And everyone's take their phone, take their phone! Because...
01:10:30.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, yeah, see, that's the thing. Like, when I was coming up, we didn't even have cell phones, let alone the internet.
01:10:32.62
Chapin Kartsounes
ye Yeah. Oh, yeah.
01:10:36.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
I got all the way through undergrad without the internet, so...
01:10:39.04
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh, God. See, that was my problem. I had it. I had the internet in undergrad, and I actually had friends who made a tweet about Betsy DeVos and Homeland Security showed up to our sorority house.
01:10:50.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's so weird!
01:10:50.63
Chapin Kartsounes
And...
01:10:50.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
We had a guy on, like, two weeks ago that had a visit from Homeland Security for saying unaliving things about our FOTUS.
01:10:51.29
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
01:10:54.43
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep. Yeah.
01:10:57.89
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. Yep. And so I'm like, ever since, thankfully I wasn't involved in that at all. I wasn't even there when they showed up, but I was like, ever since then, everyone was on edge. They're like, no, don't tweet.
01:11:08.46
Chapin Kartsounes
Take the phone. ah Oh my gosh.
01:11:10.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and i always wonder exactly where the line is.
01:11:13.31
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes, me too. Because I see stuff all the time from both sides where I'm like, where's the line?
01:11:14.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because...
01:11:20.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, it's saying that you wish something would happen versus wanting it to happen versus you would do it yourself under different circumstances.
01:11:22.83
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. Right. Plans. Right. Yeah.
01:11:27.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, yeah, it's it's pretty rough.
01:11:30.44
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
01:11:30.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because, you know, on Facebook, you can take a ban for calling someone a bitch.
01:11:34.73
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
01:11:35.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, I'm an adult.
01:11:35.31
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah, my my friend's tweet was super lighthearted.
01:11:36.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'm in my fifty s
01:11:38.88
Chapin Kartsounes
It was so dumb. So I was like, what? I was shocked at that.
01:11:45.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:11:47.28
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. ah
01:11:49.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, wait, there was something else I wanted to cover.
01:11:51.47
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh.
01:11:52.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Yeah, i'm looking at my list, because I have a list, but then we kind of jumped around, because, you know, like, I i don't think we have to talk about Billy Barty anymore.
01:11:55.47
Chapin Kartsounes
I know. Yeah. It just kind of led him into one room there.
01:12:03.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
But seriously, though, Steve Fowl Play, it's so great.
01:12:05.79
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes, I have to. Sometimes I'm like, maybe I have seen some of these. I have to go.
01:12:11.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, it it actually, um yeah, I had, I had
01:12:11.72
Chapin Kartsounes
I have to go watch that. Because that's what I'm...
01:12:14.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
people over to watch it at one point we were having a Burgess Meredith double feature.
01:12:17.38
Chapin Kartsounes
Really? oh I love that. That's cool. Because that's how um Peter Dinklage was in that... I cannot remember the town's name in that movie. Three Billboards to Ebington. Or what was it?
01:12:30.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, is he in that?
01:12:30.25
Chapin Kartsounes
can't remember.
01:12:31.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
I haven't seen that.
01:12:31.39
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah, yes, and he played like a love interest to the main character.
01:12:36.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, he's the love interest in the station agent, which is, yeah, and I, I mean, I guess kind of a love interest.
01:12:38.93
Chapin Kartsounes
ah okay. That's the one I haven't seen. I was like, I haven't seen that one.
01:12:43.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
I don't know.
01:12:44.09
Chapin Kartsounes
Uh-huh.
01:12:44.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
he'd He'd be kissing someone that already has a boyfriend. um
01:12:47.43
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh, I think that might be... I'm trying to think if the main character in the Three Bill Warts movie has a husband or something. I can't remember. I saw that so long ago when it came out. It was a great movie, though.
01:12:59.15
Chapin Kartsounes
have to watch it again.
01:12:59.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, this station agent is just wonderful. And then when the Game of Thrones came out, I was like, oh my god, it's that guy from the station agent.
01:13:02.05
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
01:13:04.92
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. I love that.
01:13:09.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, he's also in, um well, 13 Moons, but also Nights of Badassdom.
01:13:14.40
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh, right.
01:13:16.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it's funny because he does a lot of ah fantasy stuff, Peter Dinklage does.
01:13:21.65
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes, he does. Yeah.
01:13:22.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I know that he had that rule when he was cast in Game of Thrones that he said under no circumstances was he going to have a long beard.
01:13:30.46
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
01:13:30.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because that was such a stereotype of that.
01:13:32.81
Chapin Kartsounes
It is. is. The thing about it is, it's like, we love fantasy. I personally, I played um Dungeons and Dragons. I choose a dwarf and elf, goblin.
01:13:44.35
Chapin Kartsounes
I choose those characters every time I play. And we love fantasy. But the problem is that they started off representing us in fantasy and we were like, oh, cool. But then we just never moved from there. And it's been decades now.
01:13:56.13
Chapin Kartsounes
And we're like, hello, can we get something else now? Yeah. And that's what Peter was saying when he's like, you're still telling the story of the Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. Like, how many remakes do we need of this? It's like, yes, it was great. And we can still appreciate the story of the Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.
01:14:12.27
Chapin Kartsounes
I literally have so many merchandise of the Seven Dwarfs. But the thing is, can we get something else? Like...
01:14:20.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, what about if they when they make a movie of of the seven dwarves and they don't cast dwarves?
01:14:25.19
Chapin Kartsounes
That too. that's That was a whole added layer. And then they did that because they were like, oh, well, let's not use dwarves so that dwarf-like little people don't feel like we're representing them with this movie. it's It's the actual fantasy character, not like the disability. And we're like, okay, but you're still making the movie, so at least cast us. Yeah.
01:14:45.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
Great.
01:14:46.65
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
01:14:46.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
01:14:48.07
Chapin Kartsounes
Like, if you're gonna still make the movie, and you're gonna use the word dwarf, and you're gonna say it's fantasy, you've always seen us as that fantasy character, so cast us if you're gonna do it.
01:14:58.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I don't know if you checked out um the show Boardwalk Empire on HBO, but there was...
01:15:02.66
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh, no.
01:15:04.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's set in the you Like... twenty s thirty s you know like
01:15:08.92
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
01:15:09.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah Well, polio was a problem.
01:15:11.29
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah, man.
01:15:11.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
um but But one of the things that happens is there is a union of dwarf performers and they get hired to do things like play elves at a Christmas party and play leprechauns at a St.
01:15:17.13
Chapin Kartsounes
ah Oh, that's amazing.
01:15:25.71
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
01:15:26.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
Paddy's Day. like Stuff that just smacks you in the face with how offensive it is.
01:15:29.33
Chapin Kartsounes
that was And that's true. That really... Yeah. We actually still do have um a group of dwarf actors and dwarf artists, the Dwarf Artists Coalition.
01:15:34.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it was just business as usual.
01:15:43.26
Chapin Kartsounes
They have pages on... social medias if you look them up and yeah they have several um several little people artists and performers and they post about the things they're doing all the time um i don't know if you've seen the show louder milk on netflix well it's on netflix right now um okay uh it might be on something else they just put it on there recently
01:15:46.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:16:02.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, I don't have Netflix.
01:16:08.31
Chapin Kartsounes
There's, it's about a group of people in Alcoholics Anonymous and the main character, he's like Charlie Sheen Energy in Two and a Half Men, like that kind of guy who's just like ah ah dick, but he's also like a good person deep down, it seems like sometimes.
01:16:25.78
Chapin Kartsounes
And he's changing.
01:16:26.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
Bill Burr, if you will.
01:16:28.08
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes, yeah.
01:16:28.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
cool.
01:16:29.24
Chapin Kartsounes
So um it's him, but then there's like the, you get to meet the other characters in his group and all that and their stories.
01:16:29.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
you
01:16:35.21
Chapin Kartsounes
And there's one guy in the group who, goes on a date and ends up um getting a girlfriend and she has my form of dwarfism and she's a friend of mine and she's part of the dwarf artist coalition and so it was really fun to have them post about that she was going to be on Netflix and she the show was in the top 10 shows on Netflix for a long time and she was in multiple reoccurring episodes so that was really awesome to see yeah
01:17:01.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow, that is.
01:17:03.81
Chapin Kartsounes
yeah
01:17:04.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
So are the dwarfs in reality TV? Are they also in the Union? Does that does that count?
01:17:11.32
Chapin Kartsounes
um
01:17:11.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, I don't even know if reality TV gets you a SAG card.
01:17:15.00
Chapin Kartsounes
i'm like I feel like they could. if Honestly, I think anyone can join if you consider yourself an artist. um So they could join. a lot of them do art stuff in their personal lives too.
01:17:26.35
Chapin Kartsounes
But I don't know. It's kind of hard. they They're kind of... It's like... I don't know. yeah That's a very controversial subject and it's just hard because they try to represent us, but they are under contract and it's, and they're being groomed honestly.
01:17:37.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well,
01:17:43.57
Chapin Kartsounes
And so it's tough.
01:17:45.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
well I know that there's a show called Little People Big World, and I have not watched it because it always seemed blatantly exploitive to me.
01:17:48.80
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
01:17:53.81
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh yeah, it is
01:17:54.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
01:17:55.90
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. I talk about it a lot. Just honestly, all those TLC shows in general, they are, Fetish content under the guise of representation. And even if it's not like, even if you can't tell that it's blatantly fetish content, the clips, the way they film things are like, they'll take them to a restaurant and it will be an empty restaurant, but they'll make them this group of little people sit at a high top table.
01:18:22.12
Chapin Kartsounes
Not only will they do that, but they'll film them climbing up the chairs to get to the high top table. I don't know a single little person that would choose a high top table.
01:18:26.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, for fuck's sake.
01:18:31.04
Chapin Kartsounes
and Like, um ever. So i'm like, and and the fact that it's not just once, it's in every little person's show. It's in every time they go out, they're at a high top table. It's just little things like that where it's like, if you are a little person, you know, we wouldn't do that unless someone was paying us a lot of money to do that.
01:18:53.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
01:18:53.59
Chapin Kartsounes
It's really frustrating. Yeah.
01:18:55.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, see, that's what's so gross about it. I mean, because it's supposed to be representative and people will watch it.
01:18:57.71
Chapin Kartsounes
Uh-huh.
01:19:01.01
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm.
01:19:01.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I know that mostly from like the fat people shows, you know, that like, like, no.
01:19:05.25
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. ah Yep. It's, it's fat people, little people, trans people and, um, queers.
01:19:12.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like the, whoa, look at that weird freak.
01:19:13.78
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. Yep.
01:19:15.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
let's Let's learn more about that weird freak so that you can be more knowledgeable. And it clearly is Yeah, I mean, it's really exploitive and it gives people false information.
01:19:18.92
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
01:19:24.33
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep. Yes. And that's what we are pretty much half the time we're advocating online and, and teaching people things. It's, unteaching them about the things that these reality TV shows have taught them about us.
01:19:41.00
Chapin Kartsounes
And yeah, it's really hard when you think about all those, all the shows and all the people they represent and the fact that they are fetishized categories of people.
01:19:51.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
well And it really speaks to another issue that we kind of have as a society, which is what that we don't take people at their word about their own life experience.
01:19:56.34
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes.
01:20:00.97
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
01:20:04.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
Every time I have a post take off on threads about something that's happened to me, a complete stranger will come and and lecture me that I don't understand my own life and I don't know what happened and i that isn't real.
01:20:09.09
Chapin Kartsounes
Uh-huh.
01:20:13.69
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. Yep.
01:20:16.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
or you know so And I mean, not just when something bad happens to us, because certainly victim blaming is a completely huge and...
01:20:20.74
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah, yeah. Right.
01:20:24.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
and
01:20:26.16
Chapin Kartsounes
Epidemic.
01:20:26.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, I mean, that's that's a topic for another day. But but just the idea that we don't take people at their word about what they're living with and what is happening to them.
01:20:29.41
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah, right.
01:20:36.89
Chapin Kartsounes
OK.
01:20:37.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then they make a TV show that's supposed to be reality. And it feeds people a bunch of bullshit because it hopes it will entertain them.
01:20:45.14
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. A lot of times it turns into a savior complex where people think they're protecting us by um like saying these things saying these facts about us. Like, oh people men are going to fetishize you, so you have to be really careful.
01:21:01.07
Chapin Kartsounes
But it's like, I also am 26 years old, and sometimes these are my peers, and I'm like, I have the same life experience as you. Maybe I've I don't care what I look like. I don't care if I look like a kid to you.
01:21:14.41
Chapin Kartsounes
The bottom line is I'm not a kid. I have 26 years of life experience. I know how to protect myself. So when you're getting to the point where you're having a savior complex and controlling my life, that's when it's a problem and when it's ableist and it's no longer you being a good person.
01:21:35.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, yeah, and I mean, that that's the thing about allyship, is that plenty of people want to be an ally, and it's absolutely sincere, but yet, first of all, it can look very performative, depending on and what it is that you're doing and why.
01:21:48.85
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. Yep.
01:21:51.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
But an ally doesn't mean walk in and rescue someone, you know, like and someone, I was in a hospital leaving the and someone just like took my, said, like took the back of the wheelchair that I was in and started pushing it and said, all right, where to?
01:21:56.34
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm.
01:22:05.14
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh, no. Ugh.
01:22:07.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I'm like, who the hell are you?
01:22:10.14
Chapin Kartsounes
That's like the biggest no-no.
01:22:10.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
what
01:22:11.46
Chapin Kartsounes
You're taking away someone's independence.
01:22:11.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, I was waiting for my husband to get out of the bathroom.
01:22:13.62
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
01:22:14.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
And like, I, like, I, I think I'm being kidnapped.
01:22:15.07
Chapin Kartsounes
Right. Ugh.
01:22:19.31
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah, i literally.
01:22:19.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
don't,
01:22:20.78
Chapin Kartsounes
Like, that's that's terrible. That's the worst thing. I hate hearing those stories. And it that's ah great example.
01:22:25.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, and but then he was angry when I was like, what the fuck do you think you're doing?
01:22:27.71
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
01:22:29.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
well I was just trying to help. And they're like mad at me.
01:22:30.81
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
01:22:32.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like I'm supposed to console this person that just did this rude, ridiculous thing.
01:22:36.86
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep. That's literally, i swear, that is one of the most common experiences we have with ableism in the dwarfism community, is that it's done with a good nature.
01:22:45.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
Can I ask you a personal question about that?
01:22:47.61
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. yeah
01:22:49.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
Do strangers ever try to like lift you up off the ground?
01:22:53.38
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes, I was gonna kind of lean into that I get yeah picked up touched. Some people think we're good luck. So they want to hug us for good luck.
01:23:01.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh my God, what?
01:23:02.14
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. Oh, yeah, I know. It's absolutely like I laugh about it all the time, just because I've dealt with it for so long that it's just like, what? Like, how? How do you think these things?
01:23:12.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
Holy shit.
01:23:13.72
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. And you yes, we get picked up all the time. And it's actually, it could be life threatening because we have extreme spinal instabilities almost across the board.
01:23:20.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. Yeah.
01:23:24.78
Chapin Kartsounes
um And even diving into a pool or sleeping in the wrong position can paralyze us. So if you're picking me up in the wrong spot and squeezing me or shaking me around, you could paralyze me.
01:23:38.53
Chapin Kartsounes
So i just, people need to stop doing that.
01:23:40.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, that's an assault, right?
01:23:42.76
Chapin Kartsounes
It is, it is, quite literally. And and we all we've had people in our community that try to take legal action and it's a difficult process to get that done, to get that process, like to get that recognition.
01:23:57.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
That, like, a cop doesn't necessarily accept that as an assault?
01:24:01.07
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah, well, I know people yes,
01:24:01.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
Where you'd you'd probably be, like, lectured for not knowing how to take a joke or some shit?
01:24:06.28
Chapin Kartsounes
yes. yes And yeah, I've had friends that have literally like had their like butts grabbed and stuff like that. And they've tried to file charges for sexual assaults and whatnot or sexual harassments. And they've literally had to like, leak lawyer up and do all these things. And it's just been a long process.
01:24:30.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Geez.
01:24:31.65
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah, it's tough.
01:24:33.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
That is just infuriating. i I don't even know what to say.
01:24:35.45
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. I know, right? I know. I know it's tough to respond to, but I think the bottom line is just that when you do that to people, when you push their wheelchair or pick them up or you're just taking away their autonomy, their independence, like imagine it's basically putting someone in handcuffs or putting weights around their ankles and not.
01:24:54.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
for fuck's sake, consent.
01:24:55.69
Chapin Kartsounes
yeah
01:24:56.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, we know about consent now, right?
01:24:56.56
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah, right. Exactly. Like, do we have to go back? ah
01:25:03.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, like, I mean, because I know people do it with kids. Like, I've seen people pick up other people's kids, and if I just picked up somebody's kid out of a crib or off the ground or something, I would fully expect a parent to knock my friggin' block off.
01:25:06.57
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
01:25:09.15
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
01:25:12.66
Chapin Kartsounes
Literally.
01:25:15.79
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
01:25:16.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
Man, that's, like, what?
01:25:16.39
Chapin Kartsounes
Right. Yeah, right. So.
01:25:20.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
was ah Was there anything that you wanted to talk about that we didn't really get to cover?
01:25:24.45
Chapin Kartsounes
um No, this was great, honestly.
01:25:27.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Aw, yay.
01:25:28.49
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah, it was a great time. I think we got a lot of good stuff said.
01:25:32.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
I think so, too. i think so, too.
01:25:33.85
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
01:25:34.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
I hope people ah get something out of it.
01:25:36.31
Chapin Kartsounes
Me too, me too.
01:25:36.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
um ah So was is I like to give guests a chance to ask me a question if they want to. So is there anything you want to ask me?
01:25:44.60
Chapin Kartsounes
Let's see.
01:25:49.95
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh, I didn't even read that part on the thing. I would have prepared a question. um Let's see. What do you feel is the most important thing that you gain from doing this podcast?
01:26:03.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh my gosh, I learned so much.
01:26:04.56
Chapin Kartsounes
Like, what's the most rewarding thing that you gain?
01:26:06.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
I learned so much. Um, I guess...
01:26:08.28
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
01:26:11.85
Chapin Kartsounes
ah
01:26:12.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
This is... this It's weird because it's it's, like, really, like, personal and specific to me.
01:26:16.26
Chapin Kartsounes
No, I mean, go ahead.
01:26:16.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's not, like, a general wisdom.
01:26:18.51
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
01:26:18.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
But I have... I have a couple of uncles. And like I said, my my ah upbringing was very conservative. i come from a long line of of white conservative people that are, like, European and all that there.
01:26:32.01
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep, yep.
01:26:32.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
um and And one of my uncles um and just started listening to my show a couple weeks ago. And so now he and he'll just text me out of nowhere and comment about something I said in the show, which for me could be like a year ago.
01:26:39.71
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh, wow.
01:26:42.89
Chapin Kartsounes
Huh.
01:26:49.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'm just like, what?
01:26:49.35
Chapin Kartsounes
yeah
01:26:49.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
What do you even? Oh, oh But the fact that he's thinking about things that he wouldn't normally think about and is thinking about things that you know, like in, in new ways with new empathy, um, I, I think is, um, cause yeah, he was taught like nothing about trans people.
01:27:09.60
Chapin Kartsounes
Beautiful.
01:27:12.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
And so when he first started learning about trans people, he didn't understand it.
01:27:12.80
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
01:27:16.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
He thought it was weird.
01:27:16.64
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh, yeah. I mean, we all...
01:27:17.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I mean, I didn't really understand it either.
01:27:19.39
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
01:27:20.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
i didn't understand how like that, that gender and sexuality don't necessarily...
01:27:27.35
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
01:27:27.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
um like I thought that it was part of...
01:27:29.26
Chapin Kartsounes
They're not.
01:27:31.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like any change that someone was making, I thought it was part of a journey that ended with everybody being cis and straight.
01:27:38.63
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
01:27:39.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
And so when the author, Poppy C.
01:27:39.77
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
01:27:42.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
Bright, transitioned, um I was... I guess I was surprised that they still liked men.
01:27:50.38
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
01:27:50.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, well, wait a minute, but then you're just being gay. That's hard too.
01:27:53.42
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. Right.
01:27:54.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
But but it's it's what we were discussing earlier. Like, no, you're living authentically and that's the right direction, no matter what direction it is.
01:27:57.53
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
01:28:00.37
Chapin Kartsounes
Exactly.
01:28:01.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
But like, I was young and inexperienced and I didn't have exposure to any of that, which is part of the reason that I do this, because I think that most people are basically good and most people will make good decisions if they're given good information.
01:28:04.98
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
01:28:13.53
Chapin Kartsounes
Mm-hmm. Yes. I agree. Yeah.
01:28:18.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
So that is what I'm trying to do here, and in the case of one of my uncles, I managed to succeed. so
01:28:23.06
Chapin Kartsounes
I love that. That's always feel good story to hear. I kind of have a similar thing. and that's why I share my story online is I've literally had some of the most conservative people from my high school experience find me in the hometown bar and be like, because of you sharing your experience and knowing you before your transition and now.
01:28:41.79
Chapin Kartsounes
Now I see everything differently. And I'm like actually way more moderate now or way more left-leaning now. And I'm like, what? I would have never experienced you'd get that from like my crazy Instagram stories and stuff like that.
01:28:51.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, that's why people think that college indoctrinates people because you raise kids in this hateful little bubble and tell them everybody who's not just like them is, you know, a criminal or a predator or something.
01:28:56.44
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep. Yep.
01:29:00.08
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
01:29:03.52
Chapin Kartsounes
Evil. Right. Right.
01:29:06.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then, like, I've had so many trans people on the show. And my takeaway every time is how could you spend any time whatsoever talking to this person and think that they're only trans so that they can be around kids?
01:29:15.92
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
01:29:19.45
Chapin Kartsounes
Exactly.
01:29:20.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, you know, it's extra infuriating because the reason people think that comes from a bunch of people who, you know, do bad things to kids and and women.
01:29:20.92
Chapin Kartsounes
Exactly.
01:29:29.27
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. And we're all against that.
01:29:30.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, you know, and that's it's so infuriating that the things that MAGA people yell about are generally the things that they're doing, which is why I don't like all their talk about voter fraud.
01:29:33.30
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. Uh-huh.
01:29:40.58
Chapin Kartsounes
Yep.
01:29:43.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because I still...
01:29:43.31
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah, right. It's all projection.
01:29:45.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, it's it is possible that that Trump won legitimately last time.
01:29:49.87
Chapin Kartsounes
Right.
01:29:50.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, I can't discount the the possibility that America really is that hateful.
01:29:53.52
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah, right. There's a lot of people that love him, for sure.
01:29:56.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
but But man, i don't I don't think so. I really think it was rigged last time.
01:29:59.08
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah. I know all the pulp-like predictors were leaning, comma, like, his stuff.
01:30:07.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
But, yeah, I guess it's probably inappropriate for me to say something like, Elon Musk helped Trump steal the election. So I won't. I won't say that.
01:30:14.92
Chapin Kartsounes
I know we're not trying to be hypocrites.
01:30:16.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, that would that would be inappropriate to say that. Yeah. um so
01:30:21.26
Chapin Kartsounes
That'd be so wrong.
01:30:23.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, it's it's actually time for the Mad Lib. but
01:30:25.68
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes, let's go.
01:30:26.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
so So, all right. So I have it in front of me here. um I need some adjectives. Looks like one, two, three, four.
01:30:35.52
Chapin Kartsounes
right.
01:30:36.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
four adjectives.
01:30:36.72
Chapin Kartsounes
All right. Okay. the First one, um fruity.
01:30:43.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:30:43.81
Chapin Kartsounes
Uh, second one.
01:30:48.92
Chapin Kartsounes
let's do...
01:30:53.90
Chapin Kartsounes
spicy. Not me doing flavors. Um, and then another one is, uh, hard.
01:31:04.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, and one more.
01:31:06.60
Chapin Kartsounes
One more.
01:31:09.06
Chapin Kartsounes
Let's do...
01:31:14.27
Chapin Kartsounes
Heavy.
01:31:17.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right, I need one, two plural nouns.
01:31:23.42
Chapin Kartsounes
see. First one Let's Flags.
01:31:33.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
Flags, okay, and one more.
01:31:34.03
Chapin Kartsounes
Yes. And the other one will be...
01:31:42.02
Chapin Kartsounes
Let's do... school buses
01:31:47.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. And let's see a noun. I'm going need one, two, three, four, looks like five singular nouns.
01:31:57.72
Chapin Kartsounes
and okay let's do um why is it so hard to think of words
01:32:05.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
Cause smart people have a more difficult time with this because they feel pressure.
01:32:06.26
Chapin Kartsounes
ah I know, right? I'm like trying to be creative. i'm like I feel like I can't just say a basic noun. Okay, let's do um let's do flower. Let's do And would
01:32:21.79
Chapin Kartsounes
let's do michigan
01:32:26.90
Chapin Kartsounes
her
01:32:26.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:32:28.03
Chapin Kartsounes
ah
01:32:32.32
Chapin Kartsounes
we would do
01:32:35.61
Chapin Kartsounes
Beach. And how many? Four or five.
01:32:39.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know what? I'm actually going to use... um There's a couple coming up that are placed. So I'm going to use Michigan and Beach as as those.
01:32:46.06
Chapin Kartsounes
Use those. and
01:32:47.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
So give me...
01:32:47.93
Chapin Kartsounes
All right.
01:32:48.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
I need three more nouns.
01:32:48.94
Chapin Kartsounes
Okay. All right. I got you. um Guitar. And let's do...
01:32:59.23
Chapin Kartsounes
Let's do... Donald Trump. Can we do him as a person?
01:33:04.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
Sure.
01:33:05.34
Chapin Kartsounes
Alright, maybe it will fit in there funny.
01:33:08.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right. um Actually, I need two more nouns.
01:33:10.90
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh, okay.
01:33:14.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
I think I miscounted. Maybe I did. i don't know.
01:33:15.96
Chapin Kartsounes
You're good.
01:33:16.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
But I do need two more.
01:33:17.02
Chapin Kartsounes
let Let's do Twitter
01:33:23.93
Chapin Kartsounes
and Pitchfork.
01:33:30.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right. I need a number.
01:33:33.73
Chapin Kartsounes
Six.
01:33:35.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
And another number.
01:33:39.91
Chapin Kartsounes
Let's do 48. slowly. you.
01:33:46.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
and an adverb.
01:33:48.27
Chapin Kartsounes
oh
01:33:50.71
Chapin Kartsounes
slow
01:33:54.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right, I'll put a ly on that and verb.
01:33:57.54
Chapin Kartsounes
oh slowly thank you
01:33:59.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah and a verb
01:34:01.84
Chapin Kartsounes
That one I will do... I
01:34:10.02
Chapin Kartsounes
ah gosh i don't even know.
01:34:11.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
We cut out the pauses in post. It's totally cool.
01:34:14.17
Chapin Kartsounes
No, I know you're good. Oh my god, hope so!
01:34:20.68
Chapin Kartsounes
ah
01:34:23.29
Chapin Kartsounes
Let's do... running. yeah
01:34:28.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right. It's a present tense one, so we'll put run. And then i need an occupation.
01:34:32.28
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh, thank you.
01:34:35.22
Chapin Kartsounes
Ooh, teaching.
01:34:40.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay. Alright. um So here we go.
01:34:42.97
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh, God.
01:34:43.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
This is called a Friendly Game of Baseball.
01:34:43.70
Chapin Kartsounes
Okay.
01:34:47.92
Chapin Kartsounes
Okay.
01:34:48.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
Are you a fruity athlete looking for something spicy to do after school? Why not learn to play the hard game of baseball? Baseball is played on a field shaped like a flower.
01:35:03.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
There are six teams in a league and each team is limited to 48 players. The team takes turns going to bat at the guitar and playing defense in the Michigan.
01:35:17.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
The batting team sends the players up to home trump one at a time, and each player tries to hit the Twitter as slowly as he can, then run to first base without being tagged out by the teachers.
01:35:18.92
Chapin Kartsounes
ah
01:35:21.80
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh my god. No. Oh my god.
01:35:36.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
If the player can run around all the bases, oh that happens sometimes, he scores.
01:35:41.16
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh.
01:35:42.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
And when you score in baseball, you score flags. And the team with the most school buses wins the pitchfork.
01:35:46.65
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh. ah
01:35:51.26
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh my god. So it's dystopian.
01:35:53.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
Baseball is simple, it's exciting, and it's heavy.
01:35:54.86
Chapin Kartsounes
yeah
01:35:57.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
No wonder it's the beach's favorite pastime.
01:36:02.77
Chapin Kartsounes
I love it.
01:36:03.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice. Nice.
01:36:04.96
Chapin Kartsounes
yeah
01:36:05.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
that That is... I just... I love those. I love Mad Libs.
01:36:07.82
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
01:36:08.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
I love that you can do them with absolutely anyone.
01:36:11.17
Chapin Kartsounes
I know, they're chaotic. It's great. That's
01:36:13.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
They're written super binary, though. i don't I don't care for that. There's a lot that are like girl in room, boy in room, which, you know...
01:36:17.07
Chapin Kartsounes
true. Yeah. Yeah.
01:36:21.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
But, I mean, these are reprints of really old ones.
01:36:21.90
Chapin Kartsounes
Yeah.
01:36:23.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
They might be better now.
01:36:23.94
Chapin Kartsounes
I was going to say, I'm pretty sure all the Mad Lib books I have are so old, of too.
01:36:27.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because even this one... Well, this says copyright 2009, but, I mean, I was playing this and in high school, so...
01:36:30.44
Chapin Kartsounes
Oh. Right, right.
01:36:33.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know.
01:36:34.87
Chapin Kartsounes
Well, that was amazing.
01:36:35.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
Chapin, I am so glad that you could be here and that we could have this conversation.
01:36:38.10
Chapin Kartsounes
Me, too.
01:36:39.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
I think ah people will find it really interesting.
01:36:42.40
Chapin Kartsounes
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm glad we could finally do it. Wow.
01:36:46.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, right on. Right on. I want to remind all of our listeners that we are sponsored by Sometimes Hilarious Horror and we can be found on Ko-Fi. That's K-O-F-I.
01:36:57.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
Supporting the magazine is a great way to support us And you can find Chapin on TikTok. We will have links in the description. And thanks. We'll see everybody next week.
01:37:11.40
Chapin Kartsounes
Thank you.
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