Mentally Oddcast Transcript: Author Alistair Cross
An audio version of this episode can be found here.
00:00:00.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, for fuck's sake. ah
00:00:06.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, oh, nope. Now there we go. all right. You are listening to the Mentally Oddcast. My name is Wednesday, leave Friday, and we are brought to you by Sometimes Hilarious Horror Magazine.
00:00:18.32
Alistair
you
00:00:18.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
You can find us on Ko-Fi. That's K-O-F-I slash Sometimes Hilarious Horror. Supporting the magazine is the best way to support us. This week, we have Alistair Cross back with us. We actually had an interview a few months ago, and tech problems kept us from bringing that to you.
00:00:38.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
So if you're hearing this, you'll be delighted to know that we got it right this time. um Alistair was born in the western United States and began penning his own stories at the age of eight.
00:00:52.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
First published in 2012, Alistair has since released several more novels. um In 2012, he actually joined forces with international best-selling author Tamara Thorne.
00:01:04.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
And as Thorne and Cross, they actually write the successful gothic series, The Ravencrest Saga. Alistair is currently working on the seventh book in the Vampires of Crimson Cove series, as well as another book in the Ravencrest saga. Of course, that was a while ago. Is that is that out yet, your next book?
00:01:23.68
Alistair
No, not yet.
00:01:24.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
and Okay, cool. So we didn't miss it.
00:01:27.29
Alistair
Nope.
00:01:28.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
Welcome, Alistair. I am glad that you could be here with us again.
00:01:32.11
Alistair
I'm glad to be here again. it was fun the first time, and it'll be fun this time. whether it Whether it works or not, it was fun.
00:01:35.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
Let's hope so.
00:01:39.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right on. Well, you know, it's funny because the kids say that now. The kids are like, oh well, you know, we we could just get together with snacks but and in just talk, but then like not record anything.
00:01:51.04
Alistair
Right, right.
00:01:51.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, wow, you you discovered hanging out. Isn't that amazing?
00:01:57.04
Alistair
That's what we used to call hanging out. no
00:01:58.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right? ah So as you know, the first question we like to ask is for guests to tell us the story of the first horror movie that they remember seeing.
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Alistair
um
00:02:09.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
So let's have it.
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Alistair
All right. So it's, it's hard for me to recall the first first, but I think i you know, the one that left the the biggest impression on me, i think was Cujo.
00:02:25.43
Alistair
i don't really know what I was doing watching it, but it it gave me like a, it terrified me and I had like a, yeah, like it, it scared me really, really bad.
00:02:34.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, yeah.
00:02:37.08
Alistair
It was the, uh, It kind of gave me, this is kind of funny, but I wasn't afraid of um dogs, but it kind of gave me like a PTSD reaction to those old hatchback cars.
00:02:49.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
00:02:50.88
Alistair
How weird is that? That's a weird thing, but it's true. And yeah, but that's the one that I remember being kind of traumatized by, but I loved it at the same time. You know, it's weird, weird how that works.
00:03:02.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
How old were you?
00:03:04.47
Alistair
I was probably seven or eight.
00:03:10.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I think that's probably the precise right time to be terrified by Cujo.
00:03:11.82
Alistair
i was young.
00:03:14.56
Alistair
Yeah. yeah Yeah, exactly. I watched it as an adult and I'm like, yeah, there's a little bit of like a... um so you know, nostalgia, nostalgic fear, if there's such a thing as that.
00:03:28.62
Alistair
But mostly i'm just like, look how happy that dog is. He's not scary.
00:03:31.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
think
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Alistair
He's having a good time.
00:03:35.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, Stephen King says when you, like, watch a movie again or read the book again, you're not really being frightened by it the next time.
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Alistair
But, oh.
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Alistair
Yeah.
00:03:44.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
You're remembering being frightened by it the first time.
00:03:46.64
Alistair
Yeah, that's exactly. i'd I'd agree with that. It's like, it doesn't scare me now, obviously, but I remember the fear and it was, uh, it was a, yeah, I'd say Cujo for sure.
00:03:57.32
Alistair
there There's a lot of them, but that's the one that I think really, and I don't know why that one, but yeah.
00:03:58.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
he...
00:04:03.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, the thing about Cujo when you're a kid is that even if you're kind of an advanced kid who understands that monsters aren't real, they're not in your closet, they're not under the bed, that's a dog.
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Alistair
Yeah. Right.
00:04:15.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Dogs are everywhere.
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Alistair
Exactly.
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Wednesday Lee Friday
And rabies is a real thing.
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Alistair
And hatchbacks, they were everywhere.
00:04:20.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes, yes.
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Alistair
That, you know, ugly 1970 something yellow car.
00:04:21.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
Dee Wallace totally exists. So...
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Alistair
Everybody had them.
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Wednesday Lee Friday
you
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Alistair
everybody had
00:04:31.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and one of the things people forget about Cujo is that the reason that that happened was because the rich husband with the nice car didn't give a shit that the wife who drove the kid around had a junker.
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Alistair
That's right. That's right. It was a, yeah, exactly. it's You take the junker.
00:04:46.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, little bit of side horror there. Oh, you're driving my child around? Well, have this piece shit, Pinto, that barely starts.
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Alistair
Right. Exactly. yeah
00:04:56.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
right So do you do you think that watching Cujo is part of what put you on the path to horror? Or was it the more broad tapestry than that?
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Alistair
I think for sure that was ah that was definitely one of the key things. i was always So i basically what it came down to is I was a really um hyper kid. I didn't have much of an attention span. I did not like you know TV, which is weird because i I liked to read, which is really strange. But I had a really short attention span and I needed...
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Alistair
um I guess a lot of stimulation. And so, ah you know, watching horror really, you know, stimulated me.
00:05:36.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep,
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Alistair
And, you know, now that I say and like to read, I also read scary stuff. So even though I did like to read, it was the same kind of deal where... I think I needed that. It gave me more stimulation than say like, you know, cartoons or, you know, Little House on the Prairie or whatever it was that was, you know, all the rage back then.
00:05:59.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
yep. yeah
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Alistair
I don't know.
00:06:03.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, there's kind of a sameness to wholesome TV that horror doesn't have because the one of the main focal points of horror is to surprise you, you know, to catch you off guard.
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Alistair
Right.
00:06:18.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
Whereas Little House on the Prairie, you know, even Nelly, it's like, wow, you're a terrible person, but we totally expect this from you at this point.
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Alistair
Yeah, we totally see it coming, right? Right.
00:06:27.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
00:06:29.92
Alistair
Oh, yeah, and Nellie and Harriet. Remember her mother, Harriet? Yeah, yeah
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Wednesday Lee Friday
um So the first book that I read by you was actually a Mother. And mothers are a hot topic with me. ah you know, my first book has ah a mom in it. and
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Alistair
yeah. yeah
00:06:46.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Well, I love the portrayal of the manipulative narcissist. um I imagine it's even more poignant now that all of us are much more acquainted with narcissism than we would have been before.
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Alistair
Right.
00:06:58.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
All of us here in America. um i I'm curious to know a couple of things about that. First of all, did the character proceed? Was she inspired by anyone in real life?
00:07:11.97
Alistair
No, we actually, what's interesting is, so so Mother is a thriller that I wrote with Tamara Thorne, and what's interesting is we both had really good relationships with our mothers.
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Alistair
Our fathers, not so much, but our mothers, we both really you know got along with our mothers and adored our mothers, but we just loved this idea of... I know, this horrible mother figure.
00:07:39.42
Alistair
You know, maybe, i don't know. And we just, you know, obviously,
00:07:46.14
Alistair
but yeah i can't I can't think of anything that this was really, really based off of other than maybe little stories that we had heard here and there. over the years, because a lot of people had some really nasty moms. I don't know what that's about, but, and dads, you know, and dads are nasty too, you know, I know that, but the thing is, is there's a lot of nasty mother stories, and so we just kind of thought that this would be a really fun thing to explore, and it was...
00:08:16.54
Alistair
It was. It was intense. But the but interestingly, no, we actually put in the dedication. We dedicated it to our mothers who are nothing like the mother but mother in this book.
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Alistair
Because I didn't want anybody to think, oh, they must have, you know, he must really have mom issues. It's like, not really. I really don't. You know, to have a lot of issues.
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Wednesday Lee Friday
I certainly wondered when I read it, but honestly, because of the the psychopathy that's evident in that character, it seemed like if if that was based on one of your mothers, that you would be no contact with your mother.
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Alistair
Yeah.
00:08:51.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I'm probably reading plenty of of my own issues into that that line of thinking.
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Alistair
Right.
00:08:57.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because, you know, I've been no contact from my mom since 95 and my book about it didn't come out until 2008.
00:08:58.21
Alistair
Well,
00:09:04.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
So. hmm. so
00:09:05.47
Alistair
Right. And that's the thing. I think that if you, you know, that's the, that's the beauty of getting older and, and becoming, I guess, autonomous or, you know, coming into your own as you realize, even if it is your parents, this is unhealthy, this is abusive, whatever.
00:09:22.18
Alistair
And you don't, yeah, i certainly would not have contact with anyone that, that that was you know like the the the mother and in the book.
00:09:33.83
Alistair
Even if she was my neighbor, I wouldn't talk to her.
00:09:36.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right. But see, the thing is, there are people, and we know this, there are adults that never admit that they were abused. They never admit that anything bad happened to them. And they maintain, through adulthood, their relationships with the these abusers.
00:09:46.05
Alistair
Right.
00:09:50.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'm going to try really hard not to say the name that I'm thinking of. But you I'm sure we'll get to it later. But I did want to bring up something that occurred to me after we talked last time.
00:10:03.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
which is who it is that Prissy reminds me of from literature. So first I have to ask you, how much VC Andrews have you read?
00:10:12.50
Alistair
Um, I, not a whole lot. However, I, I i did, you know, grow up on, um, ah Flowers in the Attic, the movie. In fact, as a matter of fact, I have been watching Julia Child, the cooking show lately. i don't know why. i I don't know why. It's just for some reason it did it caught my fancy lately.
00:10:37.53
Alistair
And she's like baking and she'll put this powdered sugar on things. and And I'm watching it and I'm having this weird reaction to the powdered sugar. And I'm like, I don't know why that's creeping me out so much.
00:10:49.49
Alistair
Well, not too long ago, for the first time as an adult, I watched the movie Flowers in the Attic, and I watched the grandmother putting the powdered sugar on the donuts or whatever, the cookies.
00:10:58.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep, yep.
00:11:00.27
Alistair
And of course it was poison. I'm like, that's why I'm having that reaction. So that's, you know, that's another one I saw when i was a kid that kind of creeped me out. But anyway, long story short... I'm not real familiar with v Sanders. I did read the original Flowers in the Attic series, and I also read two or three of a different series. And I can't remember. want to say it's something like the the Landry series or something.
00:11:24.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
and Okay.
00:11:24.59
Alistair
I'm not sure if that's right or not.
00:11:25.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, the reason that I asked, actually, is that the Heaven series, um I forget her last name, um but that series has a character called Kitty, and she is an adoptive mom.
00:11:37.96
Alistair
OK.
00:11:37.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
with the You know, she's a very voluptuous woman, and she has the kind of... You know, she's very performative and is a very different person in public than in private, you know, that whole thing.
00:11:48.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that's kind of who who Prissy reminds me of, like those aspects.
00:11:52.01
Alistair
Nice. That's it.
00:11:52.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
But I mean, those are huge human archetypes.
00:11:53.12
Alistair
Yeah.
00:11:56.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like we write about people like that because they exist in the world.
00:11:56.59
Alistair
yeah
00:12:00.19
Alistair
Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah. But that's ah that's a huge compliment, you know, and and we actually got V.C. Andrews, Andrew Niederman, who writes as V.C. Andrews, he actually gave us a quote for Mother, and he said that it reminded but she reminded him of some of his V.C.
00:12:18.12
Alistair
Andrews characters, and that was like a huge like moment for me that was like, you know, because, yeah, it wasn't like a huge V.C.
00:12:20.47
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:12:25.02
Alistair
Andrews reader, but I'm obviously familiar, and it was really... popular when we were growing up. And oh, yeah, yeah.
00:12:30.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, yeah, it was inescapable. Like, in the Yeah. yeah
00:12:33.79
Alistair
Yes. Oh, yeah. So to have that, it was like a huge thing, to you know, to any kind of comparison like that, you know, it was a really, really big deal. I very flattered.
00:12:45.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice. That is that. Wow. That's, that's amazing. um So one more thing about that book in particular um that, yeah yeah I mean, I don't, I don't mean to like insult you or anything, but the research was kind of lacking just, I mean, ah pretending that, well, dude, the book says that Sausalito's are better than Chesapeake's.
00:13:02.09
Alistair
I know where you're going with this.
00:13:07.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, what the hell?
00:13:09.82
Alistair
Hey, yeah're I'm only human.
00:13:10.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
That is madness.
00:13:10.98
Alistair
You know what?
00:13:13.99
Alistair
I'm only human. You know, I was under a deadline. There was a lot of stress. You know?
00:13:18.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, man, you you gotta research that shit. You can't just be making up nonsense about which cookies are better. Come on Next thing you know, your characters will be enjoying Chips Ahoy, and it'll just be freaking anarchy.
00:13:32.30
Alistair
I know. It was very unprofessional of me. I admit I dropped the ball.
00:13:36.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, you know, I always think when I think about cookies in literature, I think about the movie um Stranger Than Fiction, you know, like the the Will Ferrell masterpiece.
00:13:43.90
Alistair
Okay. ah
00:13:46.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
I don't know if you've seen that or not.
00:13:46.40
Alistair
Yes. Oh, I love it. Love it.
00:13:48.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, the thing that like the thing that strikes me the most is that he's a grown man and he thinks he doesn't like cookies.
00:13:56.64
Alistair
Right.
00:13:57.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because he's never had a cookie that didn't come from a box in a store. And probably, i mean, he must not have even had a Pepperidge Farm cookie.
00:14:01.20
Alistair
ah
00:14:05.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because Pepperidge Farm, I mean, that that is a solid cookie.
00:14:08.38
Alistair
It is.
00:14:08.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
but But imagine, though, if the only cookies you've ever had were Chips Ahoy or maybe an Oreo. Yeah, you you might think cookies are stupid.
00:14:19.29
Alistair
Yeah, they're all right. You'd be like, eh, they're okay. But yeah, I've had a, and as a matter of fact, I mean, that was kind of my, my whole thing. I've never been a big cookie person, but, um, it was probably 10, 15 years ago now, somebody made like these, uh, homemade, peanut butter cookies. They were just regular peanut butter cookies, but oh my God, it was a whole new experience. I'm like, wow, I really do like cookies. So I totally get it.
00:14:43.17
Alistair
Yeah. Yeah.
00:14:44.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, you know, maybe it's like the horror. Maybe when you eat at Chips Ahoy, you're remembering cookies that you enjoyed at other points of your life.
00:14:51.60
Alistair
That's right.
00:14:52.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
that That's why they seem good.
00:14:55.34
Alistair
That's right. i love it.
00:14:58.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
So right now you're working on, um let's see, so book six of Vampires of Crimson Cove. That is out now.
00:15:06.61
Alistair
Yeah, that that that came out and now I'm moving on to book seven.
00:15:06.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then...
00:15:11.10
Alistair
It's kind of slow going. I got a little bit of a you know, I'm not very far into it, but it's it's coming along.
00:15:17.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I need to talk about how it is that you are writing in these series. Like, do you plan these from the beginning? Because as you know, I've been working on a trilogy for some time now. First book was 2020.
00:15:28.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
Second book was 2022. Third book was supposed to come out last year, but it's a political book and I can't keep up with the politics. It's too much for me.
00:15:37.56
Alistair
Right, right.
00:15:38.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, but but was was this, I mean, Vampires of Crimson Cove, was that always intended to be a series?
00:15:39.40
Alistair
Mental health and all that, you know.
00:15:46.94
Alistair
No. um As a matter of fact, um i i didn't want it to be. I i wrote the first one as you know just kind of a one-off. And um it you know that the first story kind of wrapped up, but it just kind of kept, don't know, I wanted to revisit. And I didn't really realize at the time that it's like, oh if you're going to do vampire book, people want series. you know and and And series in general, you know, and once I so once I did the second book and and then the third and I saw how this really is a whole different animal as far as, you know, um
00:16:31.74
Alistair
you know, it makes a lot more money. you know i don't know how to word it, you know but it it's it's you get five, six books into a series and you have people going back to read book one you know through four, five, six. so every Every book that I've released in this series has doubled.
00:16:53.09
Alistair
uh in cells and so that alone is not enough to keep to to do it i think you have to love it and i really do love this series luckily and i just every time i'm finished with one my mind is already going to the next one and i want to find out what happens next and after that and after that um but it's it's a lot harder in a lot of ways than doing uh standalones because in a standalone you you have all your threads, you tie them together, you boom, you're done.
00:17:24.43
Alistair
With a series, you have you know these character arcs that go throughout, you know you change your main character, but not as much as you would, you know what I mean?
00:17:34.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, yeah, I mean, because that's when I'm writing an actual novel, I find that once I get to like the three quarter point, I have to start going back to the beginning and like refining what I had written before I really knew where it was going.
00:17:35.80
Alistair
Slowly.
00:17:47.86
Alistair
Right. Right.
00:17:49.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
And you can't do that with a series. It's already published.
00:17:51.74
Alistair
Nope.
00:17:52.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
You can't go back and change it.
00:17:53.07
Alistair
Nope. And believe me, there are times that I'm like, why? did and that's that's one of the the the disadvantages of a series is it's like, you you it's it's a done deal. If you did it and it made sense to you at the time, you have to stick to it. you know There are people that that I've killed in it that I'm like, God, why did I do that?
00:18:07.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, you know what, though?
00:18:12.70
Alistair
But hey, you know...
00:18:14.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I'll tell you, though, I just got finished reviewing the prequel series for Dexter.
00:18:20.74
Alistair
Okay.
00:18:21.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it's it's basically fanfic.
00:18:22.24
Alistair
Oh,
00:18:25.44
Alistair
oh okay.
00:18:26.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
There's so much retconning. Like, an enormous, unfathomable...
00:18:28.55
Alistair
Yeah.
00:18:30.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, if you have a lot invested in especially the first season of Dexter... it's It's going to make you mad, the things that they're retconning. Things like a guy that we know was a serial adulterer now has had one affair that he feels extremely conflicted about.
00:18:40.16
Alistair
Right.
00:18:48.44
Alistair
Yeah, see, yeah, and this is...
00:18:48.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, stuff like that. It's just like, okay, I don't want to go all like Annie Wilkes on you people, but that's not what happened last season.
00:18:58.78
Alistair
i know
00:18:59.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
Have you all got amnesia?
00:18:59.55
Alistair
never got out of the cock-a-doodie car! Have you all got amnesia? Exactly.
00:19:04.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
They just cheated us.
00:19:04.75
Alistair
Yeah.
00:19:05.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
This isn't fair.
00:19:07.51
Alistair
But it's true. And, you know, Annie Wilkes, while over the top, really spoke.
00:19:13.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
She was making some good points.
00:19:14.67
Alistair
she She was. She was speaking for all of us because you can't do that because it is a cheat. and And you do lose respect for it. You do. And i've I've read series like that before, too, or seen them. And I'm just like, come on.
00:19:27.83
Alistair
And you know you you can't you can't do that.
00:19:27.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I mean, sometimes...
00:19:29.51
Alistair
you know if if i If I, in my series, and this is true whether I'm writing my own series or the or the series that I write with Tamara, it's like, you know what, it it's it's a done deal. And sometimes it sucks, but this is where being a writer and being very creative comes out.
00:19:43.75
Alistair
You have to figure a way around it. you know Oh, whoops, i I set this up. i have to find a way around that. yeah A reasonable, believable way around it. Right.
00:19:51.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right, right. Because if you just have Patrick Duffy in the shower, suddenly people aren't gonna...
00:19:56.83
Alistair
right
00:19:58.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
I better explain that for young people.
00:19:59.71
Alistair
right Right, right.
00:20:00.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
See, there was a show where they'd written themselves into a corner and then just decided to write the entire season off as a dream.
00:20:08.01
Alistair
My favorite is, I won't name names, but there's one author. but
00:20:13.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
00:20:14.07
Alistair
good Very respected and and great a great author. there's there's But, but, but, you can always tell when this author has written themselves into a corner because at the end of the book, at the end of the big seven, eight, 900 page book, poof, out come the aliens. It was aliens.
00:20:33.20
Alistair
And this, this author has done this to me three or four times now. I'm like, enough is enough.
00:20:40.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
were Were they under some sort of dome by chance?
00:20:43.16
Alistair
Right, right. But it's like, you can, you can tell it's like, it's, it's great to not, you know, s plot your books so meticulously. I'm not a a huge plotter myself. I have plot points that I know need to happen. I basically, I have a basic beginning, middle, and a few possible endings.
00:21:03.18
Alistair
I need to have that. Otherwise I'm going to write myself into a corner.
00:21:05.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right, right, because you have to know at least what direction you're going
00:21:08.92
Alistair
Right, right. I don't want to write myself into a corner, but at the same time, I leave it pretty wide open so that I also get the pleasure of of that organic, you know, discovering the story as I go along, because I love that. That's the main reason I do it. I couldn't do, you know...
00:21:25.10
Alistair
scene by scene by scene, you know, this is exactly what needs to happen. It just, that's not how it, that's not how the process works for me. But, you know, when you write yourself into a corner, sometimes you just don't blame it on aliens, unless you're writing an alien story, in which case that's fine, but, but let us know that it's aliens before, you know, the last 10 pages of the book.
00:21:47.84
Alistair
At least drop some hints, for God's sake.
00:21:48.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah mentioned the possibility of aliens before then
00:21:51.28
Alistair
Exactly. Exactly. Just some hints.
00:21:55.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah it's so funny because the third book of my trilogy has aliens um well and the thing is that like i was having such a difficult time it never occurred to me that that trump would be re-elected i i really did not i i just thought so much more of my country than that um
00:22:00.54
Alistair
Right.
00:22:14.14
Alistair
I think we all did. We all just kind of went, oh, well, okay. But then, you know, yeah.
00:22:18.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
So i'm I'm trying to finish this book, you know, and it's it's very political. And ah things just kept changing and changing and changing. And I said, you know what? Look, here's what I'm going to do.
00:22:30.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
As long as space aliens don't come to Earth and as long as the president doesn't tell people to shoot them, i think I won't have to change it ever anymore.
00:22:40.74
Alistair
Right.
00:22:40.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
And goddamn, three days later, Trump posts, oh, there's drones. No one knows where they're coming from. You should shoot them.
00:22:49.16
Alistair
Yeah.
00:22:49.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, alright, it's kind of hard to not take this personally at this point.
00:22:52.50
Alistair
Right. Right.
00:22:55.79
Alistair
Maybe you should just consider writing history. Go back in time.
00:22:57.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
with No, that motherfucker is getting shot into the sun, if it's the last thing I do.
00:23:04.80
Alistair
ah
00:23:05.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
and And it may be. I'm trying to get on a charity thing for healthcare, and it's not going too well.
00:23:11.46
Alistair
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's
00:23:12.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's like the only time people think I'm rich is when I'm trying to get some kind of financial aid, and then suddenly it's like, oh, you have so much.
00:23:19.32
Alistair
right, right?
00:23:19.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, I really don't.
00:23:21.92
Alistair
Yeah, right. It's, yeah.
00:23:23.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
I have a husband that keeps me from having to live in a refrigerator box. That's pretty much the extent of my my opulence. So... um Getting back to the work. Now, a lot of people and in in a lot of milieus, vampire stories are inherently about addiction and about feeling sort of separated from the rest of society. So what is your take on that?
00:23:50.60
Alistair
um i I would agree. i think that you know my whole my whole approach to the kind of vampires I did is yeah I could never figure out how vampires, you know how you would get bitten by a vampire and then become a vampire.
00:24:05.56
Alistair
I couldn't figure that out. And then i i couldn't i never liked the idea of, oh, you drink their blood and then you become a vampire. And so I kind of went the route of like snakes, you know, like venom, you know, so so my vampires have venom.
00:24:19.39
Alistair
and And if you inject a little of the venom, it is like a drug. It's a lot like heroin and you become a addicted and you become... subservient to this vampire.
00:24:31.60
Alistair
However, if you you know, over time it slowly erodes you, it slowly kills you, you basically die slowly, you kind of rot and or and eventually die. And if you, you know, die from enough of the venom, then that's how you become a vampire.
00:24:48.17
Alistair
So it's, yeah, so that's kind of my my approach.
00:24:48.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, wow.
00:24:50.59
Alistair
So the whole, the drug, you know, addiction angle, I totally, you know, am am on board. um And that's the whole ah whole series. My whole concept of vampires is kind of a metaphor for addiction and control over others.
00:25:09.38
Alistair
Yeah, yeah. Loss of control over yourself.
00:25:12.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and and you are a recovered addict, right?
00:25:13.42
Alistair
Obsession.
00:25:15.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, you have you you have over 20 years of sobriety at this point, right?
00:25:15.85
Alistair
Yes.
00:25:18.81
Alistair
i'm i'm I'm coming up on 20, it'll be 20 years in June, which is amazing.
00:25:24.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
00:25:25.16
Alistair
I'm not old enough to have 20 years of sobriety, but I do.
00:25:27.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
00:25:28.08
Alistair
But I do, yeah. i So yeah, so that was, that was you know, um God, that's kind of where the the concept kind of came from, because believe it or not,
00:25:40.11
Alistair
20 years ago, when I was getting sober, this is when this concept kind of came to me about the vampires and the, you know, leeching the life out of you and and giving yourself completely to this entity, this substance, whatever.
00:25:57.22
Alistair
So the the concept for the Vampires of Crimson Cove series was kind of born way back in like 2005, which is when I got sober. And I didn't write, you know, the first book until, let's see, the Crimson Corset came out in 2015.
00:26:12.11
Alistair
two thousand And fifteen that's book one. So was, you know, but yeah, yeah. So I totally get the, yeah, addiction, obsession angle. That's kind of what I'm going for, for sure.
00:26:24.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, so when you're writing about addiction, what what aspects of addiction do you think are most important to portray accurately?
00:26:33.15
Alistair
um I would say the loss of yourself, the loss of who you are, the loss of your morals, the loss of, you know, you know when you when you're an addict, you you do things you swore you'd never do with people you swore you'd never do them with in places you swore you'd never go. um This is, it you surrender your entire soul.
00:26:57.54
Alistair
And that's kind of, that's the approach that I kind of take and in the writing. is you become as a vampire's, you know,
00:27:09.31
Alistair
supplicant, you know, you you trade your blood for their venom and you become, it becomes this symbiotic, almost, you know, drug dealer, addict relationship.
00:27:21.77
Alistair
This kind of sick, twisted symbiotic relationship where, you know, you need each other to survive, you know, codependence in the sickest, you know, way where you're destroying each other.
00:27:29.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, like pimps when they they string the girls out.
00:27:31.11
Alistair
Yeah. Sure, sure, exactly. Same exact thing. And I have a lot of prostitution in the in the book. not not It's not central, but it's it's so there's a theme there.
00:27:42.16
Alistair
You know what i mean? um and and And, you know, to to put it, you know, quite simply, I would say that that's that's a good word for it. The prostitution of the self. That's what drugs and alcohol do. And that's the approach that I take with the vampire venom in the books.
00:27:58.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's really interesting because I'm actually thinking about that in terms of some of my favorite vampire stories, like ah Salem's Lot, I would say, is is like the king of all vampire stories after, you know, Dracula, I guess.
00:28:12.97
Alistair
Sure, yeah. yeah
00:28:13.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
But yes, yes.
00:28:14.93
Alistair
I guess. Yeah, Dracula.
00:28:18.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, the thing about Dracula is that it set up a lot of expectations that I think people associated with vampires that really didn't have anything to do with vampirism, like living in a castle and wearing capes and, you know, being called Count.
00:28:32.40
Alistair
Right.
00:28:34.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, he didn't live in a castle because he was a vampire.
00:28:34.90
Alistair
Right.
00:28:36.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
He was a count.
00:28:38.03
Alistair
Right.
00:28:38.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's why he had a castle.
00:28:38.66
Alistair
right
00:28:40.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
The whole vampire, that that was just incidental to that.
00:28:43.17
Alistair
It was, it was.
00:28:43.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
Lots of counts with castles back then. They weren't all vampires.
00:28:47.52
Alistair
Right.
00:28:48.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
But Salem's Lot, you know, has, first of all, the the main vampires are very, you know, zombie-like. they They don't tend to speak as much.
00:28:56.43
Alistair
Yeah.
00:29:00.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
They're obviously very slow-witted. They have, like, their memories seem sort of vague. But then there's the guy. Like, if you're watching the movies, you know, the the James Mason, the Donald Sutherland, the, ah I forget his name, Euron Greyjoy.
00:29:14.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
um that that are, you know, the helpers.
00:29:15.48
Alistair
yeah yeah
00:29:17.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
I loved, loved the new Salem's Lot. I mean, I understand that it had issues because they cut almost an hour out of it, but there was so much to like there, so much beautiful cinematography.
00:29:26.11
Alistair
Yeah.
00:29:30.43
Alistair
i I would agree with that. Yeah. I watched it not too long ago. And I i know what you mean. i felt, I really felt those those cuts. Like i was going along and I was loving it and then all a I'm like wait a minute.
00:29:42.26
Alistair
Wait, how did we get here? But then I'd start getting into, you know what I mean?
00:29:45.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes.
00:29:45.16
Alistair
it was it was It was, I liked it. I think I i really did. i i do wish, I don't care if it's three hours. I would watched all of it.
00:29:53.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, it's supposed to be three hours. Every other good version of it is roughly three hours.
00:29:54.77
Alistair
Exactly. hey Exactly. Sometimes it just has to be, you know, I mean, can you imagine if they would have tried to condense Gone with the Wind into an hour and a half? Impossible. You know what I mean? Just, you know, i mean, really, i mean, what would it, you know, some.
00:30:08.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
Just take out all the parts where Scarlet is selfish and annoying and there's your movie.
00:30:11.40
Alistair
Right.
00:30:12.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah
00:30:12.76
Alistair
Right.
00:30:16.34
Alistair
And what kind of movie would that be? That's not the Scarlet we know and love.
00:30:20.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's a movie about an angry servant that we're going to pretend is paid fairly. Yeah, I mean...
00:30:26.55
Alistair
Right? Right? But yeah, it's just if they would have done, i would have loved it. I would have really loved it that that movie if they would have given the, you know, left a little more.
00:30:34.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah i mean
00:30:37.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
I'm really, it it seems like we're not going to get the full version that they're not going to, you know, pay attention to the fan outcry because the fan outcry has been minimal. You mostly people have just been trashing it. And that bums me out. That's why the last issue of sometimes hilarious horror, instead of one of my stories, I would normally submit. I had ah just a long essay defending the movie.
00:31:01.33
Alistair
Oh, nice, nice. Well, I'm glad you do that.
00:31:02.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well,
00:31:03.54
Alistair
You know, that's cool. That matters.
00:31:06.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
but There are certain things, like, for example, Mark Petrie. This portrayal of Mark Petrie was incredible. He was a wonderful character. The boy actually reminds me of a young version of So...
00:31:16.31
Alistair
Right.
00:31:20.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
so
00:31:20.98
Alistair
Oh, nice.
00:31:21.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
So it was well, and you know, the thing that is most attractive about age and and many things are because, you know, my husband kicks ass, but he is so morally and ethically centered as a person.
00:31:33.50
Alistair
Yeah.
00:31:33.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
He always knows what the right thing is to do. And I personally am much more morally ambiguous than that.
00:31:41.47
Alistair
Yeah.
00:31:41.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
But the thing about that kid is that he's like, well, I have to do what i hate what I can for my friend. That's my friend, and I made him a promise, and I'm keeping it, even if it involves, you know, putting a stake through his heart.
00:31:54.70
Alistair
Right, right.
00:31:56.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
And when you see a kid like that, the obvious question is, who are his parents? How did that happen?
00:32:02.06
Alistair
right
00:32:02.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
And we barely saw the Petries until the scene where they died.
00:32:06.74
Alistair
Right.
00:32:07.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I'm pretty sure we were meant to see a conversation at the funeral because they are present at the the funeral of the Glick Kid, but they don't say anything.
00:32:15.61
Alistair
Yeah.
00:32:17.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
And given that they're the only black family in the goddamn movie, you'd think you could have given them, you know, a little bit more screen time just so we could know them.
00:32:22.43
Alistair
Right. Right.
00:32:25.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
Plus, the sheriff, I think, is the other big blunder because the sheriff, we see him getting the hell out of town and it is not yet dusk.
00:32:29.03
Alistair
Oh yeah. Yeah.
00:32:35.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
So he should have been able to get away.
00:32:37.97
Alistair
Yeah.
00:32:38.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
And the fact that he didn't means I need that information. i need to know why he didn't get away.
00:32:44.34
Alistair
Exactly. And that's exactly what, you know, it it really, I feel like it was really well done. I think that there was a lot of love put into it. It's one of those sad, it's one of those sad cases where I'm like, it really just came down to the final, those fine, it just, it, I mean, I'm a complete layman when it comes to, to, to movie making. And I could tell, I'm like, this has been edited.
00:33:05.20
Alistair
within an inch of its life, it's been cut down, pared down the bare minimum, and unfortunately it has lost some of the essential ah bridges that are going to gap, you know.
00:33:05.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:33:18.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and it just, it doesn't make sense to make those cuts. Maybe if if it was getting a theatrical release, which is what we were initially promised, that might make sense to say we don't want people in their seats for more than two hours.
00:33:27.58
Alistair
Yeah.
00:33:33.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's, you know, that's a reasonable thing to say.
00:33:35.74
Alistair
Sure.
00:33:35.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
But the fact that they ended up putting it on HBO instead, you know, like, people have a lot.
00:33:36.05
Alistair
Right.
00:33:42.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
First of all, you can hit pause because it's on HBO. It's right there at home.
00:33:46.07
Alistair
right
00:33:46.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
But Yeah, there's there's just no reason to cut it.
00:33:49.99
Alistair
Well, and even and even in the movie theater, even in the you know the the the movie theater thing, you know it it's you know people who love this. And there are lots of people, obviously, who love this. I think they're willing to sit through it. You know what?
00:34:02.87
Alistair
When was the last time you saw a movie with Brad Pitt in it that wasn't four hours long? you know I remember going to see, you know, nothing against him. I think he's, he's great, but that's not my point. My point is, is I'm like, if he's in a movie, I have to really think about it because I'm like, it's going to be at least three hours long. I remember going to see seven years in Tibet in the movie theater.
00:34:20.89
Alistair
I call it seven years in the movie theater. um Oh, it was just so, it just went on and on and on and on and on. And I mean, you know But why is that okay? I mean, people will tolerate Brad Pitt, but I think people, the point is, is that people would tolerate a really long version of Salem's Law.
00:34:36.94
Alistair
We want it you know We've asked for it for you know a long time.
00:34:39.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and I mean, I'm sure part of it is just underestimating horror fans and the passion that we have for the things that we love.
00:34:45.46
Alistair
Sure. Absolutely. That's exactly what it is, I think.
00:34:50.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
But they knew, i mean, i think that it's possible that the way that the two-part release of the It movies was mishandled and the way that...
00:35:02.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, they forgot that the cast was predominantly children, and so they didn't shoot everything before they hit puberty, you know, and then they had to go back and CGI things.
00:35:07.64
Alistair
Right. right Whoops. Yeah.
00:35:12.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
but So, yeah, I mean, i think those kind of problems...
00:35:13.09
Alistair
Whoops. Yeah.
00:35:15.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, because the thing about the kids in Salem's Lot is that because there was so much time in between the the shooting of the movie and its release, we know that the kids got a lot older because one of those kids is a twin, and their twin is on another show, and he looks much older.
00:35:29.63
Alistair
Right.
00:35:33.82
Alistair
right
00:35:36.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because, you know, the the the kid that plays... ah Danny Glick is the twin of the kid that plays Homelander's son on The Boys.
00:35:43.39
Alistair
Yeah.
00:35:44.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
So I'm just mentioning that for reader for listeners in case, you know. Because, you know, people think The Boys is woke, so they don't watch it anymore.
00:35:52.26
Alistair
Right. Well, and, you know, on then on the on the on the ah um topic of little Danny Glick, ah that's another scene that in my mind as ah as a child that I saw that I must have watched, I guess, Salem's Lot, the old miniseries.
00:36:09.88
Alistair
think it was like 1979.
00:36:11.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
who
00:36:12.01
Alistair
I you know not and didn't watch it when it was new. um It was kind of before my time, but I watched it
00:36:17.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, really? I watched the premiere.
00:36:19.77
Alistair
ah Really.
00:36:19.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
I was maybe seven.
00:36:21.86
Alistair
ah Really.
00:36:22.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, my parents were very into letting me watch all the horror I wanted.
00:36:22.82
Alistair
See, I would have...
00:36:25.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
Kind of irresponsible in retrospect, but...
00:36:26.32
Alistair
I must have... Yeah, I must have saw it when I was, again, eight, maybe nine, seven, between somewhere between seven and nine. And I don't remember. and was young enough that I don't remember the whole thing. um But I just remember little Danny Glick at the window.
00:36:41.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh yeah.
00:36:41.96
Alistair
And boy, that creeped me out. Something fierce. So there's another. You know, pretty much Stephen King's fault, if you think about it. All of this is his fault.
00:36:47.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, for, for people our age though, I mean, that, that is a formative horror moment. I don't know anybody who saw that movie as a young kid and was not impacted by it.
00:36:58.31
Alistair
Oh, yeah, it was traumatic.
00:36:58.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
There are people that tell me that it, it put them off of horror movies altogether.
00:36:59.43
Alistair
It was, yeah.
00:37:02.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like they didn't watch another scary movie for 10 years. They missed the whole Halloween, Friday, the 13th thing, because after Salem's lot, they were just like, Nope.
00:37:08.79
Alistair
Yeah. Yeah. I...
00:37:12.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
Whereas I was like, I am terrified. I want more of that.
00:37:17.14
Alistair
I know, which isn't that weird. But I remember, I remember, and my mom was really, really cool. I remember going to, this is back when you had, you know, video stores. And I'd go to the video stores. Now it's straight to the horror section every time. and and i And the movie that I really, really, really fell in love with, that I i would say is probably my favorite movie of all time, not just horror, but all time,
00:37:38.95
Alistair
ah Carrie.
00:37:40.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, yeah.
00:37:40.24
Alistair
i I love that movie and I remember watching it so much over and over. i would I would rent it and then you had to return it and then I'd wait a couple days and rent it again and I watched it over and over and over.
00:37:52.93
Alistair
I mean, there was a point I guarantee you I had pretty much the entire script memorized. I loved that movie. It just did something to me. I don't really know what. I'd have to analyze that, but it changed things.
00:38:03.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, it certainly put you on a path as far as writing about bad moms, because that's the Margaret White is the gold standard of bad moms because the things that she does are horrible.
00:38:06.41
Alistair
Yeah. And maybe that's, yeah, maybe that's right.
00:38:15.66
Alistair
Right.
00:38:15.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
But she is so sure that she's doing the right thing. You know, she's not a drunk.
00:38:18.61
Alistair
That's right. And you know what? Right.
00:38:20.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
She's not lazy. She really just thinks all that wackadoo stuff.
00:38:21.84
Alistair
Right.
00:38:25.83
Alistair
and This is an interesting conversation because this is almost like a therapy session because Tamara and I have talked about this. In fact, we talked about it a lot, especially when we were writing Mother because we were both like, because she has some some nasty moms in some of her other books and I have a few nasty moms and and some of mine and we have nasty dads too, but it's just like we're both kind of a little bit baffled as to why you know we both have such great relationships with our moms and and yet this comes out of us and it's it's interesting because But this is an interesting conversation with you because now I'm thinking maybe it's Carrie, maybe it's, you know, old Piper Laurie, you know, maybe that's where it's coming from.
00:39:00.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
it It could be. But, you know, there's also the the psychological theory that, like, if you are raised in a in a good environment that's loving and safe, then you can spot bad behavior. You can spot red flags.
00:39:18.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
and poor treatment and you're not the person that sits there and says, oh, do I have a right to be upset about this?
00:39:18.40
Alistair
Right.
00:39:24.29
Alistair
Right.
00:39:24.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
Maybe I'm being ridiculous for being mad. No, because if you've been treated well, it's much easier to say, hey, that was fucked up. That shouldn't have happened.
00:39:32.53
Alistair
Now this didn't feel good. We shouldn't do that, right?
00:39:34.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
But when your whole life is one fucked up thing after another, it's like, oh, I guess I deserve this again. so
00:39:41.41
Alistair
Yeah.
00:39:42.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, because, I mean, obviously you and I have very different mom experiences. My mom was a narcissist, I say was.
00:39:47.73
Alistair
Right.
00:39:49.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
She's only dead to me. i promise i I didn't actually kill her.
00:39:55.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, no, it's... um But... If you're raised by a narcissistic sociopath and then you try to go out in the world and do things like have a boss or date, you you may or may not have a sense of what is appropriate behavior and what's not.
00:40:13.40
Alistair
Right.
00:40:13.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know? Like, if if you're 16 and your boyfriend calls you a bitch and you've never been called a bitch before, you're gonna know immediately how unacceptable that is.
00:40:23.64
Alistair
Right.
00:40:23.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
But if you've been called that your whole life, then you've
00:40:26.64
Alistair
it's It's not only acceptable, it's cozy.
00:40:29.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right. It's like that is familiar to me. i am comfortable in this situation because I understand what's happening.
00:40:31.40
Alistair
It's home. Yeah.
00:40:35.33
Alistair
Right.
00:40:36.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, and then when I met H and he treated me like a queen, I was like, oh, what's this about, man? I don't I don't even know what's going on here.
00:40:45.09
Alistair
Did you, did you have a hard time trusting that?
00:40:45.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
And.
00:40:47.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, my goodness, i I honestly, I still have a hard time trusting it.
00:40:51.79
Alistair
Really?
00:40:53.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yes. I mean, it i when I got sick in 2022, I was like, dude, you don't have to stick around for this. You've done plenty. you know you You would not be a bad guy if you called it at this point and said, I'm going to go get a different life with someone who's you know not an unhealthy wackadoo that requires constant care.
00:41:02.51
Alistair
Yeah.
00:41:14.92
Alistair
Yeah.
00:41:15.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I don't really require constant care, but at the time I did because, yeah,
00:41:18.85
Alistair
Yeah, you were really sick. You got really sick, didn't you?
00:41:21.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
and and And I was pretty sure I was going to die.
00:41:23.48
Alistair
Yeah.
00:41:23.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I wasn't really like the whole situation made me depressed enough that I didn't want to do anything about it. You know, the ambulance showed up and they were like, look, you need to go to a hospital. And I, I told them to leave.
00:41:35.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
They're like, no, you can't, your blood sugar is too low. If you go back to bed, you're going to go into a a coma and die. And I was like, you need to get out of my home. I don't want you here.
00:41:45.81
Alistair
Right. You're like, I don't care. I'm done. Yeah, no.
00:41:47.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, like, yes, I'm trying to sleep.
00:41:48.37
Alistair
And that's horrible. Yeah.
00:41:50.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
Can you hold it down, please? And the only reason I did anything is because of that guy. Because I realized how fucking mean it is when someone is standing there trying to save your life and you're telling them that you don't care. Like, that's just mean.
00:42:05.78
Alistair
yeah
00:42:06.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
And by that point, I had been in a loving relationship for 20 years and had you know i just I had more responsibility to him than that. Because that' that's a thing that I say to other people but had not been saying to myself, which is that if you want people to love you, you have to you can't make them watch you hurt yourself over and over again.
00:42:21.37
Alistair
Right.
00:42:31.64
Alistair
Right.
00:42:31.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know Which is you know an addict thing, too, because that's a lot of times what at addicts end up doing.
00:42:34.89
Alistair
Yeah, for sure.
00:42:36.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
They hurt themselves, and then everybody who loves you has to just sit there and watch.
00:42:42.19
Alistair
Right. And in that respect, you are, you know, that whole, oh, I'm not hurting anybody but myself. That's not true.
00:42:47.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right, exactly.
00:42:48.67
Alistair
It's never true. It's never true. I'm curious, and I hope it's okay if we kind of go this direction, but I'm just curious, is is your are those issues for you?
00:42:59.76
Alistair
So you're you're your problem is with with with your mom. See, i had ah I had a good relationship with my mom, but my my dad was a whole different story. And for me, um I'm much more trusting of women.
00:43:13.19
Alistair
I don't have mom issues, and I don't have... i don't have I love women. Women to me are safe. Women to me are great. Men, it's a little different. it it's It's a little more difficult. It's a little more complicated.
00:43:29.02
Alistair
And so what I'm wondering is, i don't know, you've never said anything about your your your dad. um is is this Is it different for for for you from gender to gender?
00:43:41.16
Alistair
Because it it is for me.
00:43:41.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
um It is. Lots to unpack there. um
00:43:44.83
Alistair
I know, right? I know. I'm sorry.
00:43:45.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. No, no, not at all. No, i um I would say that I also, and and this is interesting because I had a ah quote unquote best friend going out growing up, a girl I'd known since I was like seven.
00:43:59.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
And so we were like, you know, I'd go stay over at her house or whatever. And then we ended up, you know, going to the same schools and we went to the same undergrad college for a while.
00:44:12.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
And ah she, um, She's a very troubled person like like me, you know, we had weird upbringings and I think that's one of the reasons that we hung out.
00:44:18.51
Alistair
yeah
00:44:22.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
But she was a very mean person and someone who like wanted to be my best friend until like the popular kids wanted to hang out with her. And then suddenly i was, you know, they they would just all make fun of me and, you know, stuff like that.
00:44:37.16
Alistair
yeah
00:44:37.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
And. And i I tolerated it because of, I think, what we were talking about earlier. Like, people who who knew me the boat most and who knew me the longest treated me the worst. And it must have been because that's just, you know, because I was a fuck up and I wasn't pretty and I wasn't thin. And, you know, I just assumed that that's how people were treated because i that's always what the world was.
00:45:05.08
Alistair
Right.
00:45:05.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it really wasn't until I got to college and then after that discovered the internet that I was like, hey, wait a minute. That doesn't happen everywhere. That was just happening to me.
00:45:15.86
Alistair
Right.
00:45:17.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it's wrong. And there are people who know it's wrong.
00:45:18.86
Alistair
Right.
00:45:21.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because the thing is, that friend, that friend officiated my wedding. Like that is how long i maintained that type of relationship. ah relationship with a person who did not treat me well.
00:45:35.21
Alistair
Right,
00:45:35.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, and, and it was, there was a lot of gaslighting too, you know, because you get that with abusers that you're in long, long-term relationships with. Like they want to tell you things weren't that bad or they didn't really say that or, Oh, come on. That's not how that happened. And it's like, yeah, I can see why you'd want to tell yourself that, but bitch, that is what happened.
00:45:57.46
Alistair
right right
00:45:58.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
So
00:46:00.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, so I really, um I tended to have female friendships out of necessity because it was expected of me, but I didn't, I didn't tend to trust my female friendships. It was very rare.
00:46:16.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
um And even now, you know, I have a handful of female friends, but for the most part, the people that I would rather just hang out and watch movies and get high with are are dudes.
00:46:26.74
Alistair
Yeah, see, and to me, and it's so interesting because to me, it's it's the opposite. And I've had this conversation, you know, with Tamara also. And it's just, it's really interesting to me because I'm i'm i'm kind of the opposite. I just feel more, you know, there was a lot of, you know, you were you were talking about, you know, growing up and I grew up in a small town, really conservative small town. And I'm not like...
00:46:54.62
Alistair
the rest of the boys, I didn't play football. I didn't, you know, so the bullying we're basically, you and I are basically the same age.
00:46:58.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
u
00:47:01.91
Alistair
So I don't need to tell you how, you know, acceptable and normal it was. I mean, I remember getting just, you know, kicked down the hall and passing teachers and they were just like, no you know, it was no, yeah, it was no big thing.
00:47:15.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
Gotta toughen up, kid!
00:47:17.84
Alistair
And it was really bad for a couple of years there and in junior high, really bad. I don't even know how I did it to be honest, but
00:47:25.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I mean, if we're being honest with ourselves, the only reason that most schools really looked into bullying was that the kids being bullied started shooting up the place.
00:47:34.44
Alistair
exactly, exactly.
00:47:35.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, and then everybody was like, oh, this is a problem we should probably deal with.
00:47:36.58
Alistair
Yeah.
00:47:39.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, it has been.
00:47:39.94
Alistair
Yeah. Yeah.
00:47:41.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know, if girls started shooting people for tugging their bra straps, we would have real dress codes and real consequences for that shit now.
00:47:42.17
Alistair
Yeah. You remember.
00:47:49.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
But we don't, so
00:47:49.89
Alistair
Right. But it was, it was mainly, um you know, looking back on it, it was mainly the boys the that were the bullies to me.
00:48:00.92
Alistair
And so again, you know, I, I don't, I'm in a much, you know, I can deal with men now, but I don't think I could even look them in the eye until I was 30 something. It was something.
00:48:15.11
Alistair
Yeah.
00:48:15.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, toxic masculinity, man, that makes bullying out of control because there's so much fear attached to it.
00:48:17.34
Alistair
something yeah yeah Yeah. Yeah, it was a weird thing. I mean, I remember, you know, someone more than once commenting on that, you know, a woman, you know, being like, what why but don't you look at him? like And I'm like, because he's a dude.
00:48:37.67
Alistair
You know what I mean? And so, you know, and the and and yet, you know, I talked to Tamara or even you and it's like, Tamara's much more comfortable with with with men.
00:48:38.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:48:46.01
Alistair
And I'm like, isn't it just, it's strange, you know? And then, you know, you talk to somebody who has these, you know, kind of their their trauma comes from, you know, women, whether it's a mother or whatever.
00:48:56.75
Alistair
And it's like, I i just, i I don't understand that. Women to me are safe.
00:49:02.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, see, i if you have a gaslighting mom, what you learn is not to trust what you see.
00:49:05.54
Alistair
Right.
00:49:08.52
Alistair
Right. Right.
00:49:08.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
And because I have autism, I want very much to believe that everyone is well-intentioned and that everyone is telling me the truth.
00:49:15.94
Alistair
right
00:49:16.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
But because of my mom, I have to second-guess everything. So when my husband says, you are so beautiful and I am so proud to be your husband, I'm like, okay, what's the gag?
00:49:27.67
Alistair
Yeah. What do you want?
00:49:28.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know, what when do your buddies come out and start laughing at me because I fell for it, you know?
00:49:28.55
Alistair
Yeah.
00:49:33.00
Alistair
Right. Right. No, I get it. I do. I really do. um Would you, how, how old were you when you cut ties with your mom? You said 1995.
00:49:45.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
right around there. i was... ah um Actually, it must have been 95 because I went to Woodstock 94 and we had a big argument about it afterwards because she ah took my my boots that had the Woodstock mud all over them and she put them in the washing machine.
00:49:58.94
Alistair
Oh, yeah. Okay.
00:50:01.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I was pretty upset about that because she did it to be mean.
00:50:03.79
Alistair
Well, yeah.
00:50:04.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, it's another one of those things that she, oh, gosh, why is that a problem?
00:50:05.22
Alistair
Right.
00:50:08.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
but Like, bitch, you know what you know what you did.
00:50:09.58
Alistair
Yeah.
00:50:11.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it was probably a ah year after that, because actually at that point, her husband, I refer to him as my dad. He's not my dad. I called him to dad growing up, but he's he's my stepdad.
00:50:23.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
I could not pick my actual dad out of a lineup. i I think we traded some emails around like 2004 and he had heard that I was a writer, but when he found out I wasn't rich, he kind of lost interest.
00:50:32.00
Alistair
Yeah.
00:50:37.05
Alistair
Oh, wow.
00:50:37.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
So...
00:50:37.92
Alistair
that's That's nice.
00:50:39.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, quite ah quite a winner. winner um But the thing is, growing up, and I was like, I sort of idolized him, even though he wasn't around. I had really romanticized that
00:50:53.18
Alistair
Yeah.
00:50:53.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
the you know, like, oh, he got to escape my mom. That's awesome. And then when I was, you know, when I was escaping my mom, I was like, wait a minute.
00:50:59.32
Alistair
Right?
00:51:05.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
I was concerned about leaving the dog behind. and
00:51:08.49
Alistair
Right?
00:51:08.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
he was not concerned about leaving me behind.
00:51:08.96
Alistair
Yeah.
00:51:11.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
So that, you know, you have these realizations later on, like, You know, with my mom being abusive, I had a ah point where I was like, well, I should probably forgive her because she was mentally ill and she didn't know what she was doing.
00:51:27.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
But then when you realize, like, you want to say, oh abusers, you know, they just can't control themselves sometimes. They lose control. But the fact of the matter is, my teachers didn't know what was happening.
00:51:38.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
My grandfather didn't know what was happening. My aunt slash godmother didn't know that we were being beaten, like, regularly or that I'd be like,
00:51:46.24
Alistair
Right.
00:51:46.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know, locked in my room or, you know, just crazy shit like that. So then I had to admit that, like, yes, she could control herself just fine when she wanted to.
00:51:59.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
She didn't think that I was worth that level of control.
00:52:02.40
Alistair
Well, and sometimes, you know, the way that I've come to reconcile it, and and I mean, even just with people that I've known as an adult, people who sometimes you just have to say, you know what?
00:52:13.42
Alistair
You are sick, but go be sick somewhere else because it's destroying me.
00:52:17.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep. Yep. Yeah. and And you can really want someone to like get better and have a better life way the hell away from me.
00:52:25.65
Alistair
Without being part of it.
00:52:27.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right. Exactly.
00:52:27.55
Alistair
Right. Right.
00:52:28.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
And you know, that's also something that addicts go through because if you screw people over hard enough while you're using, even though you got better and you got sober, there are those people that'll say, that's great.
00:52:34.03
Alistair
Yep. Yep.
00:52:40.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
Congratulations. No, I don't want to see you.
00:52:41.96
Alistair
Fuck off. Yeah, yeah exactly.
00:52:44.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
Off you go then.
00:52:46.38
Alistair
exactly.
00:52:47.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, no, you you won't be house-sitting for me anymore, sir.
00:52:49.72
Alistair
Thanks for saying you're sorry. i but Yeah.
00:52:53.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right. Well, and, you know, one of the 12 steps, if you're you know if you're sobering up using the steps, one of them is to just sort of go around and grovel to everybody that you fucked over and and, like, admit what you did and listen to what they have to say about it.
00:52:54.70
Alistair
No, yeah. And...
00:53:04.41
Alistair
Yeah. yeah
00:53:08.62
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's like, I don't know if...
00:53:09.49
Alistair
ah I got so lucky. I got so lucky with that one because I did do, I did do the 12 steps and I, I, I'm a total, I'm i'm not a zealot or a fanatic, but I think everybody should go through the 12 steps. I think they're fantastic, but um I got so lucky with that one.
00:53:25.34
Alistair
Most people just said to me, you know what? That that's fine. Just, just stay sober and and we'll be fine. You know, nobody, And I wasn't like a thief or anything. So I didn't owe anybody any money.
00:53:35.70
Alistair
i didn't, I didn't, I was too, you know, I wasn't out, you know, having affairs with strange people. I was, yeah yeah I was not, sex was not the thing.
00:53:44.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
laughter
00:53:45.03
Alistair
It was not a pretty situation. There was no, none of that for me, but you know, it's, it's, yeah, I, yeah, I got lucky with those, with that. I think it's step nine. i think that's where you, you go make amends.
00:54:00.55
Alistair
Yeah. it was it was It was scary, but I'm glad I did it.
00:54:06.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and I noticed that unlike a lot of people who work the 12 steps, a lot of people sort of replace their addiction with religion.
00:54:16.12
Alistair
Sure.
00:54:16.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
and And specifically, you know, Jesus stuff, which like I have nothing against the teachings of Jesus as stated.
00:54:20.11
Alistair
Yeah.
00:54:25.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
I think the red words in the Bible are very nice. um
00:54:28.19
Alistair
Right.
00:54:29.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
I think, oh, you know what? We're going to actually pause for a second. That was the door.
00:54:34.45
Alistair
Okay.
00:54:34.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
don't know if you heard that. That was the...
00:54:35.87
Alistair
I didn't.
00:54:36.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay, yeah. That was my door buzzer. My mic is actually... rit i mean, it's it's like a cheap little cardioid mic, but it does a good job of of keeping out ambient sounds.
00:54:47.15
Alistair
Nice. Yeah, I didn't hear i didn't hear anything.
00:54:47.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
So... Yeah, like, the the door buzzer straight up went off.
00:54:52.38
Alistair
Oh.
00:54:52.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I have noise-canceling headphones on, so I only heard it a little bit. But then, you know, H got up and ran out to get the produce delivery. Because, you know, I'd be disabled.
00:55:02.07
Alistair
Don't you love delivery?
00:55:03.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
I don't go to the grocery store a whole lot, but, uh, well, there's like people everywhere and there's the sun, which, you know, fiery ball of cancer in the middle of the frigging sky.
00:55:06.17
Alistair
I love it. I can. I just don't like to.
00:55:13.99
Alistair
I know.
00:55:17.43
Alistair
i know.
00:55:17.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
Who thought that up? ah
00:55:19.49
Alistair
i know. I'm with you.
00:55:20.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
Whose idea was this? This is not intelligent design.
00:55:24.23
Alistair
It was Jesus.
00:55:24.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
This is some drunk.
00:55:24.99
Alistair
We were just talking about Jesus.
00:55:26.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. ah
00:55:30.31
Alistair
Oh, yeah, but no, I do. i i know I know what you mean. It's ah that replacement of addiction. And I think that you have to be really careful because I don't know that addiction ever really dies. I think it just kind of changes form. So you have to learn how to um
00:55:48.31
Alistair
control and disperse your energy in a balanced way.
00:55:53.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep. Yep.
00:55:55.05
Alistair
Because I think it's very natural to quit one thing and go head first into another thing. I mean, even those 12 step programs become an obsession for some people and that's fine in the beginning, but eventually the goal is you to be a productive member of society.
00:56:09.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, right. Like, if you're three years in and you're still doing a meeting every single day, it might be time to
00:56:17.20
Alistair
And if you, right.
00:56:17.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
Re-evaluate. What a good...
00:56:18.59
Alistair
I mean, if you, if you.
00:56:19.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, because you need stuff in your life. It's like that experiment with the rats. You know that experiment where they they have the rats and they gave them a choice between like food and water versus cocaine?
00:56:23.45
Alistair
Yeah. Yeah.
00:56:30.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
And of course, they pick the cocaine.
00:56:31.33
Alistair
Yeah.
00:56:32.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
But then if you give them a playground with other rats and it's social and there's things to do and play and and work toward... Then they they don't. I mean, every once in a while, there's one that goes for just the cocaine.
00:56:45.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
But for the most part, they they don't.
00:56:45.89
Alistair
Right.
00:56:48.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that's the thing about like, that's why community is so important. And that's why the fascists are trying so hard to break up our communities.
00:56:52.87
Alistair
Exactly.
00:56:56.61
Alistair
Exactly, and we you know I've been to, like there are these places, and I'm not judging anybody, I think, you know what, you do whatever works for you, you do whatever you need to do.
00:57:07.07
Alistair
But when I was early on in my recovery, I would go to these places that would have meetings, like AA meetings, and there would be like five, six you know meetings a day, spaced a few hours apart.
00:57:18.74
Alistair
And you would see these people and you'd see them there, you know, week after week. And you'd realize that there are these people who are going to meetings and they're just hanging out between meetings, waiting for the next meeting and the next.
00:57:28.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:57:30.78
Alistair
It's like all day, every day, they're hanging out, just bouncing from meeting to meetings meeting to meeting. Now, again, I want to be very clear. i I'm not judging that that that you do whatever you have to do. But when I was early on in my recovery, I specifically remember hearing them talk a lot about, you know, the whole program talks a lot about, you know, the goal, you be a productive member of society.
00:57:53.86
Alistair
And I thought, well, that that to me is not my version of being, um, a productive member of society. So I had to learn and it's still a challenge because I'm very OCD and I mean that literally, um you know, like diagnosably I'm OCD. And so I have to be really careful about, I can pour myself into one thing and just, just go, go, go, go. go And so when I quit, you know when I got sober, it was you you know you're kind of looking for something to fill that void.
00:58:27.11
Alistair
And it could have been it could have been anything.
00:58:27.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
00:58:28.75
Alistair
But I really, um because of the 12 steps and because of these programs, I really learned you know that I'm not that unique. you know A lot of people are a lot like me.
00:58:38.98
Alistair
And and you know you have to learn to, like I said, kind of disperse your energy evenly and in ah in a balanced way.
00:58:48.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and that's one of the biggest things about community is that it teaches us when you listen to other people, you realize that you are not alone. I mean, that's one of the things we talk about on this show is that people do share your experience, whether you're like late diagnosed with something that you've been struggling with your whole life or, you know, you self-medicated for a long time and now you want to not do that or, you know, whatever it is, there's someone who's been through what you've been through.
00:58:58.16
Alistair
Right. Right.
00:59:06.53
Alistair
right
00:59:18.38
Alistair
Right. there's There's a phrase I like to to to use for people, it for not people, but for this this idea that we all kind of have it, I think, and I call it terminally unique. like
00:59:30.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mmm.
00:59:30.77
Alistair
Meaning, you know you believe we all have the tendency to do this, that that we're the only, our case is so unique, we're so different. and I don't know if it's the ego. I don't know what it is, but there's something inside of us, you you know, that that tells us that we're different from other people that we're so.
00:59:48.68
Alistair
And yet, if you can get people, if you can get people to open up in a real meaningful way and you can listen and and and there's trust there, you realize that it's like we are all a lot more alike than we are different.
01:00:01.91
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:00:02.92
Alistair
and And that's a really weird realization. And that's something that I came to much later in life. I always felt very different. And yet I am around people all the time who feel exactly the same way, that they're different.
01:00:19.86
Alistair
they're They didn't quite fit in. They didn't, you know, even the people that you thought, you know, you look at somebody from across the room and you think, well, you know, they've got it together. no they don't.
01:00:31.17
Alistair
No, they don't.
01:00:31.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I mean, just look at writers. Like, we all look at each other based on, like, who we appear to be online and the work. Like, that's how most of us writers know each other.
01:00:39.21
Alistair
Sure.
01:00:42.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then it turns out that people I've idolized for 20 years have money problems and people that, you know, I think are just the cat's pajamas.
01:00:47.83
Alistair
Right. And mental mental health issues. and
01:00:51.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
01:00:52.27
Alistair
Yeah.
01:00:52.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, imposter syndrome and stuff.
01:00:53.18
Alistair
Yeah. Right. Right.
01:00:54.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, I don't want to name any names, but finding out that certain people have imposter syndromes when it's like, shut up, I'm trying to worship you literarily.
01:00:59.06
Alistair
No. Yeah.
01:01:03.26
Alistair
Right. No, trust me. I know. We did...
01:01:04.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
Stop humanizing yourself.
01:01:06.30
Alistair
ah Tamara and I did ah podcast for seven years. And I mean, we we interviewed people like, I mean, we you know we did Anne Rice, we did you know Laurel K. Hamilton, we did Andrew Niederman, VC Andrews, we did Preston and Child, we, you know...
01:01:26.65
Alistair
Just all kinds of amazing people. And there were some of them that we got to know um off the air a little bit. And I know exactly what you're saying, because these some of these people, I'm like, I grew up wanting to be you.
01:01:42.61
Alistair
And you're you're lost too.
01:01:46.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right. Mm-hmm.
01:01:47.23
Alistair
You know what I mean? not not in ah Not in a bad way, but we're all lost. But in the bit in the way that we're all lost, we're all kind of broken, i guess. I don't know. I mean, maybe that's kind of strong. Maybe some people don't feel broken, but we all have our problems.
01:02:00.77
Alistair
Let's put it that way.
01:02:00.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right.
01:02:01.53
Alistair
And and and yeah.
01:02:01.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and I mean, because like for me, one of my formative horror things is Night of the Living Dead. It was profound for me as a kid.
01:02:10.56
Alistair
Right.
01:02:12.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
It is still extremely meaningful now. Thanks to the Internet, I've become friendly with a lot of the cast, you know, the crew.
01:02:18.45
Alistair
Yeah.
01:02:18.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
um And one of the things that strikes me is that like Russ Streiner and John Russo, for example, are... regular guys that worked a job and then they retired and they're in the industry and they're just as mad about politics as me.
01:02:29.35
Alistair
Right.
01:02:35.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
That like having power and privilege and and money and and notoriety, you know, having like a ah well-known name doesn't help...
01:02:35.53
Alistair
Right.
01:02:42.93
Alistair
Right.
01:02:44.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
For that, you know, which is why I used to be very into the night shows like the Jon Stewart, the Seth Meyers, because it's it's so valid to hear other people just say, yeah, you're right.
01:02:45.74
Alistair
No, it doesn't. and
01:02:55.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's fucked up. Here's what's funny about it. Ha ha ha. But yes, these are very serious issues and we hear you and you're right to to feel the way you feel about it.
01:03:05.70
Alistair
Right, right. And I think that we do. I think that we have a natural inclination to, you know, look at these people and go, you know, that somehow they're they're not affected.
01:03:16.78
Alistair
they're They're above it somehow. or they're theyre I don't know, but it's, no, it's... It's really, really weird to realize that some people are human. That's all. It's like, oh, you're human. Wow. Okay. it's But it's great at the same time. It's it's kind of ah it's kind of a double-edged sword.
01:03:34.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, totally, because there's plenty of things that I wish I did not know about people.
01:03:34.42
Alistair
um there's It's great.
01:03:38.50
Alistair
Right. Right. Right. And it's like, it's not it's not their fault. You know, it's like, you know, you're just you're just human. But I kind of thought that you were a little bit, well, ah sure.
01:03:45.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, sometimes it is. i i wish I didn't know who Breddy Stenellis was inside.
01:03:48.67
Alistair
Sure.
01:03:52.73
Alistair
See, I don't know who he is. I don't know anything about him.
01:03:56.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, he's a dick.
01:03:57.56
Alistair
Should I Google him? Is he?
01:03:59.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, don't, see if you enjoy his work.
01:03:59.50
Alistair
Okay. Don't Google him? Okay. Well, I...
01:04:02.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Well, I mean, he's...
01:04:03.80
Alistair
Well, if it makes you feel better, I tried to read American Psycho. I liked the movie. And I tried to read it, and I was just like, stylistically, this just... Ugh. I don't like it.
01:04:13.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's a huge issue for me because I discovered American Psycho and Feminism in the same year.
01:04:13.23
Alistair
So...
01:04:18.34
Wednesday Lee Friday
And those things were very much at odds with each other.
01:04:21.74
Alistair
ah Yeah, right, right. So you were like, yeah. So to to me, I was just like, it's a little, mean, and I don't know. I just, I had a hard time with it. So yeah, apparently, so he's not a nice person. So I see, I didn't know that.
01:04:31.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, my whole thing with American Psycho is, yes, of course it's violent. It's not an instruction manual. It is a subversive takedown of a very particular subset of the culture.
01:04:37.20
Alistair
Right.
01:04:42.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that's why it's like this. That's why there's a whole, you know, chapter about Peter Gabriel and Genesis and Phil Collins. And like, there are reasons for this.
01:04:50.55
Alistair
Right, right.
01:04:52.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I was very into defending it. because i was suddenly at odds with all these people that made sense to me on a lot of other issues. I mean, I was at a take back the night rally and they were reading from American psycho and talking about how horrible it was and how books like that shouldn't exist.
01:05:11.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
And so I immediately, like, I wasn't able to get like swept up in feminism because I had to be like, Hey, wait a minute, wait a minute. The book banners are never the good guys.
01:05:22.20
Alistair
Yeah, but see, this is but see this is this is, and I know I've kind of told you this before, but this right here, this is why I respect you.
01:05:22.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
Be the good guys. Hmm.
01:05:33.24
Alistair
You are someone who, I'm, how do i say this without being, let's say okay. Okay. I am so done with the climate, the culture, the politics. I recently went through and like just deleted like 1,700 people off Facebook because I'm like, I am so tired of your opinions, I don't care.
01:05:54.03
Alistair
Even the ones I agree with, I don't care. i didn't ask.
01:05:58.76
Alistair
And the main reason for that is is because there is no objectivity, there is no critical thinking And I don't care what side you're on. I don't care what point you're making. if You need to think critically. You need to be objective. You need to be fair.
01:06:15.90
Alistair
Even if sometimes it doesn't work out. It doesn't, you know, even if sometimes maybe it makes your side look bad, you know, because let's be honest, it happens.
01:06:27.48
Alistair
Um, the, what I'm trying to say is what you just said, that, that, that reasonableness, that's what I've always really respected about you.
01:06:27.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:06:37.13
Alistair
And I hope you never lose that because you are, you are outspoken about the things that you believe And I, and, and I think it's fantastic because it's well thought out. And just because it doesn't fit into a nice little box that, that you want, you know, it to fit into,
01:06:55.74
Alistair
doesn't mean you you can't see it. That's actually really, really rare. it's It's incredibly rare. Tribalism, I don't like.
01:07:07.49
Alistair
I don't care which side it is. Even if it's the side that I'm on, I'm like, are you thinking? Are you thinking? That's all I ask. And you think. And I appreciate that. And I hope you never, ever, ever, ever lose that.
01:07:19.94
Alistair
Because it's rare.
01:07:20.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
I hope so, too. Because I gotta say, i'm I'm feeling pretty tribal about MAGA versus non-MAGA these days.
01:07:26.42
Alistair
Sure, sure, sure. But but but not... And and that's that's that's great, because it's what you it's what you believe. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But it's like, you don't do it blindly.
01:07:37.69
Alistair
And that's what I like about you. its You can back it up. You know what I mean? and what you just said about the whole thing about, you know, um the the book banning versus the feminism. You're like, well, okay. but But, you know, there's it's not quite... It's not...
01:07:55.82
Alistair
There's a lot of nuance.
01:07:57.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and certainly if you're talking about kids, like I can't think of any reason that American Psycho needs to be in a high school library or or but or below.
01:08:05.18
Alistair
Sure.
01:08:06.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
01:08:06.82
Alistair
Sure.
01:08:07.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
But to say that ah a book shouldn't exist, I mean, I wouldn't even say that about Mein Kampf. Because we can't just pretend things don't exist because we don't like them.
01:08:13.92
Alistair
Right.
01:08:17.34
Alistair
Right.
01:08:18.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's not an okay thing to do.
01:08:21.31
Alistair
Right. And I remember seeing, i remember seeing you posting about the, the changes that they made to the Roald Dahl books and that, that, you know, kind of disgusted you as well. It should.
01:08:34.46
Alistair
And yet they, they were, I don't know. There's, like I said, i just, I really respect the fact that you, you know, aren't, um there's a lot of sheep and I don't care which side it is or whatever it is. I, I,
01:08:50.17
Alistair
i
01:08:52.45
Alistair
Just think, think critically, use your head and make your decisions.
01:08:54.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and because i think in a lot of cases, it's easy to lose track of what you personally believe in the face of what is being foisted on you.
01:09:05.73
Alistair
Right.
01:09:09.45
Alistair
Right.
01:09:09.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know? Like, I don't, for example, think that trans people are having a great time at their best. I think it's it's a very difficult thing to be trans.
01:09:17.68
Alistair
Right.
01:09:20.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
Even if society were awesome at it, it would there would still be, like, medical things and, you know, plenty of things that I don't understand.
01:09:23.53
Alistair
Right.
01:09:27.08
Alistair
Right. I mean, it can't, it's not, right. Sure.
01:09:30.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
But that... I forget where I was going with that, but like that just because I think it's, it's like there are difficulties inherent to it doesn't mean I don't think anyone should be allowed to do it.
01:09:46.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that seems to be where our government is headed.
01:09:46.64
Alistair
Right.
01:09:49.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, oh, well that's not a perfect life. So you shouldn't be allowed to do it. Like, yeah, try cis heterosexuality sometime. It is a pain in the ass.
01:09:57.32
Alistair
Right.
01:09:57.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, it's, it's not like there is a gender and sexual dynamic that is all smooth sailing.
01:10:03.69
Alistair
Right. And that's true.
01:10:04.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
because trying to get two people to to agree on like anything significant is well okay though but like moving on um you well well this kind of goes back to what we were saying about like meeting your heroes you met one of your heroes and they became your writing partner so tell us that story
01:10:05.01
Alistair
That's
01:10:10.37
Alistair
true. I
01:10:16.31
Alistair
love it. Yes.
01:10:25.66
Alistair
Yes.
01:10:28.39
Alistair
So when I was growing up, as you know, I loved horror and I remember um going to library by my house and i i went to the, you know, I just went and I was, go to the horror section and i remember seeing ah row of books and I remember seeing the name Tamra Thorne.
01:10:46.38
Alistair
I don't even know, you know, it's like almost like some weird kind of creepy cosmic thing and I know it sounds really kind of woo out there. but i don't care because it's the truth i just was i just kind of zeroed in on this name tamra thorn and i thought well that's interesting and i picked up a book and it was actually it was moonfall and i took it home i checked it out took it home i read it loved it went back um got another one got another one loved this woman's writing loved her books and uh this was and then a few years later i remember you remember when the internet was so old that we had dial up
01:11:23.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah Yes, yes I do.
01:11:24.67
Alistair
I remember, yeah, I remember going to my mom's house because she had a computer. I didn't have a computer. I go to my mom's house and get on her dial up and, you know, go to, you know, Tamra Thorne dot com and just see if there was anything new out. And I just kind of had this weird.
01:11:41.04
Alistair
It certainly was not an obsession or anything creepy like that, but but just this interest that that I just, I liked her work. I liked her. it's just, you know, i was a fan. And in 2012, I got published um and had a book out there and it was like, yay, yeehaw. I'm i am a published author and, you know, nobody fucking cares because nobody cares.
01:12:05.63
Alistair
And I thought, you know, I don't even know any other authors. And so I got this idea that I would do author interviews on my blog. It was back when I had a blog. And she was one of the first people I asked. So I found her on Facebook and i sent her a private message. And I just said, you know, I do interviews on my blog and I wonder if you'd be interested in doing...
01:12:27.52
Alistair
an interview and she said yes and we talked we did do the interview but we talked every single day i don't think you know maybe in in this was in 2012 or 13 we've maybe missed four or five days and all that time that we haven't spoken and we just really clicked and really got along. And I was living in St. Louis at the time, and i was talking to her on the phone, which is something in and of itself, which is really weird because neither one of us are phone people. I hate talking on the phone. She hates talking on the phone, but we were cool talking to each other on the phone.
01:13:02.98
Alistair
And she just said to me, how would you like to, you know, collaborate with me on a short story just to see? And I, of course, was like, oh my God.
01:13:14.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
I think that can be arranged.
01:13:14.96
Alistair
And of course, Exactly.
01:13:16.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
Let
01:13:16.98
Alistair
And of course, i I actually played it off like really cool. And I'm like, well, you know, let me think about it.
01:13:21.87
Wednesday Lee Friday
me check my schedule.
01:13:21.94
Alistair
And you Yeah, yeah, exactly.
01:13:23.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
you
01:13:24.90
Alistair
Let me give this some serious thought. I got off the phone and i'm like, of course I'm going to do it. So I waited a respectable day or two or whatever and said, yeah, I've thought about it. And I think we can do that because she had read she had read my book and and and thought, you know, I had something which I thought was, of course, very, very flattering.
01:13:41.94
Alistair
And so um we sat down, we got we finally figured out how to do this because we're in different states. And it's like, OK, so we work in the cloud. on Skype, so we're working together in real time in, you know, different states.
01:13:57.10
Alistair
We finally figured out how to do that, so we we sit down to start writing this short story and it became the Cliff House Haunting, which was so huge, we had to cut 65,000 words from it just to get it down to a normal huge size.
01:14:15.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
no Wow. Wow.
01:14:18.16
Alistair
And as soon as that was done, we started the Ravencrest series, and then we did Mother, and then we did Darling Girls, and then on and on and on, and we've never stopped.
01:14:26.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
wow
01:14:27.14
Alistair
We've never stopped. We work together ah five days a week. It's been a little less just the last couple of months because of stuff going on on my side. But three, four, at least three, between three and five times a week, eight hours a day, like a normal job.
01:14:44.10
Alistair
And we we work together. We've never fought. And that is so amazing to me. In fact, I was talking to her a little earlier today and we were commenting on something we had seen online, people working together, fighting. And I was and I even told her, I'm like, aren't you glad that never happens to us? I don't know.
01:15:02.34
Alistair
People just don't work together well, but we do. You know, and people say to us, you know, you you know, you guys have been collaborating for like 10 years and it's been successful. what What's your advice? And both of us are like, don't do it Because because we don't it's a fluke thing.
01:15:18.46
Alistair
It's we both had collaborated in the past and it's not something I would advise doing. What is.
01:15:25.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
When I first encountered you guys online, I was trying to guess the nature of your relationship.
01:15:26.47
Alistair
Yeah.
01:15:30.91
Alistair
People still are.
01:15:31.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because...
01:15:31.71
Alistair
Yeah.
01:15:33.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's like, are they a couple? Are they related?
01:15:35.47
Alistair
No.
01:15:36.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, Okay.
01:15:37.63
Alistair
Well, the way, the way she says it, and I would agree, we're too close for that.
01:15:38.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
Okay.
01:15:41.85
Alistair
It would be, it would be weird. It would be like your brother your sister.
01:15:46.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
okay
01:15:47.53
Alistair
we're like We're like kindred. It's weird. It's so strange.
01:15:51.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
and
01:15:51.23
Alistair
But yeah, no, there's no... And you know maybe that's why it works. there's There's no... Our egos are such that we're not in competition with each other. There's no sexual tension. There's no...
01:16:01.81
Alistair
We don't have these issues. you know Because you know it's... For some reason, it's just... fell into place in such a way that it's like, this is what we are supposed to do.
01:16:14.30
Alistair
And so this is what we do.
01:16:15.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's so amazing.
01:16:16.08
Alistair
And it really is. And this is why it's like when people say, well, you know, what's your advice? I don't have any, I don't know. Because to to just go, oh I want a writing partner. Let me go find one.
01:16:26.69
Alistair
Good luck.
01:16:27.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
01:16:28.69
Alistair
It's just, you know what I mean? It just, it's, it's kind of a freak thing.
01:16:33.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, i've I've never had success. And I have tried a few times to write with people and it's...
01:16:37.00
Alistair
Most people have.
01:16:38.56
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:16:38.87
Alistair
And it just, it's not, it's not a good thing. I think, you know, i think Preston and Child, we interviewed them. Those guys seem to get along, but who knows what goes on behind the scenes, of course, but they seem to really get along. They have a totally different ah process than than Tamara and I do.
01:16:54.54
Alistair
um But it's, it seems to work for them. And, you know, there are those people that it it works for, but it's, it's really, really rare. There's so much, I mean, and then you get into the business side of it. Well, I did more than you. blow but People fight over these. They squabble.
01:17:11.01
Alistair
She and I are just like, we have the same vision. you know um We just do everything fifty fifty
01:17:19.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nice, nice.
01:17:19.55
Alistair
You know, the Thorn and Cross royalties, fifty fifty s if if If shit was going on in my life and she kind of carried the weight in that last book because I was going through shit that I can't handle or vice versa, who cares?
01:17:31.38
Alistair
Who cares? 50-50. Because we're together every day, talking it out, brainstorming it, writing it, working it.
01:17:40.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
wow that is so awesome.
01:17:42.31
Alistair
Yeah, we have the same vision, same goals, same vision. Not a lot of ego. We love the writing. It's not about being important. It's not about being smart. It's not about
01:17:55.51
Alistair
selling. It's not about it's it's about loving what we do. And we have our sensibilities are similar enough that And maybe it's because i I read her when I was, you know, ah kind of a budding writer. I don't know.
01:18:09.35
Alistair
But our sensibilities are similar enough that we love the same things. You know, we write the same kind of quirky shit that we think is funny that a lot of people don't think is funny. But we think it's funny because, I mean, you read Mother, but it's like we were cracking up.
01:18:22.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
01:18:22.92
Alistair
You know, there's shit in that. And I'm like, oh, my God, that's hilarious. It's not really hilarious, but it is to us because we're sick like that. You know?
01:18:31.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, the the potato salad was definitely hilarious.
01:18:35.60
Alistair
I think that the, to me, one of the funniest things was the, like the hair necklaces and the the bone jewelry. That's so sick. And yet we're like, oh my God, this woman is sick.
01:18:47.80
Alistair
This woman is so sick. And we think that's hilarious. Cause you know, that's the kind of thing that makes this work, you know, but there's never like a, you know, and even in our solo, you know, books, it's like, can I borrow one of your characters?
01:18:54.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:19:02.09
Alistair
You know? And sure. And, you know, I'll be like, you know, kind of help me write him a little bit because this is your guy.
01:19:04.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
Neat.
01:19:08.29
Alistair
i don't want to, you know, and she's like, ah you know him. Just go ahead. It's great.
01:19:13.31
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow.
01:19:14.17
Alistair
Yeah, it's great. Yeah.
01:19:15.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
That is amazing.
01:19:17.43
Alistair
And to to go back to the beginning of of the of this the subject, to to have this be someone that I grew up reading, that I teethed on, that I you know totally admired. Yeah, it's amazing.
01:19:30.96
Alistair
It's one of those things that I'm like, oh, wow, dreams do come true. They really, really do, you know? um Life is never ideal. Life is never perfect. But if you put your if you set your mind to something and you put your time and your effort into it, things will just things come the way they need to come. I don't and don't know how to explain it.
01:19:51.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
Wow. Right on. You know, I actually want to move on to another topic. um I'm aware that you have had issues in the past with stalkers.
01:20:03.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
01:20:03.21
Alistair
Yes.
01:20:03.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
This is something that that I've dealt with a little bit. i When I first started doing phone sex, I had a stalker. um MAGA boys get a little fixated on me every once in a while, but, you know,
01:20:13.30
Alistair
but
01:20:14.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, they have short attention spans.
01:20:15.85
Alistair
Right, right.
01:20:15.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
So that's the kind of thing that lasts a couple of days. And when they, you know, they cross a line and I'm like, look, fucker, I'm calling the FBI. um then Then they just go away because, you know, they're cowards.
01:20:23.01
Alistair
Yeah.
01:20:26.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
um
01:20:26.95
Alistair
Yeah, of course.
01:20:27.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
But but what what was your experience like with that?
01:20:30.25
Alistair
um There's two of them, actually. um One was online, and it was a man, and we met on MySpace way back in the day, and he...
01:20:42.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm hmm.
01:20:44.24
Alistair
um
01:20:47.84
Alistair
and friendly. And then
01:20:51.60
Alistair
at some point I drew back because I'm like, oh, he's interested in things that I'm not interested in. ah So I shut it down and he did not take that rejection well at all.
01:21:05.04
Alistair
And he cyber stalked me for a couple of years. It got bad enough. We had threats and finding out where I lived and This was back in the day when I was really stupid. And I thought that I wasn't interesting enough.
01:21:17.91
Alistair
Nobody's going to bother me. And I'd put any you know put whatever I wanted online where I lived. Oh, look here's a picture of my car with its license plate on it. you know Here's my nieces and nephews. Here's you know stupid shit that I would never do now.
01:21:27.63
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well,
01:21:30.26
Alistair
I'm extremely... Private now because of these experiences, but this is what I did when it was new to me and I didn't think you know I was under the illusion that you had to be you know
01:21:42.28
Wednesday Lee Friday
I think most people's idea of internet security is based on nobody giving a crap who we are, you know?
01:21:48.68
Alistair
Right. Exactly. Exactly. This was before i had even published anything. You know what I mean? This was before any of that. And I was under the illusion that you, that in order to, to get a stalker, you had to be, you know, rich or famous or super good looking or whatever. I don't know.
01:22:05.75
Alistair
I'm like, I'm nobody.
01:22:06.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, it turns out that when you seem ah attainable, that you know that's that's what happens to a lot of low...
01:22:06.61
Alistair
Yeah.
01:22:10.14
Alistair
Yeah.
01:22:13.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because Aurelio Voltaire also has a lot of like issues with stalkers. I don't mean to like call him out personally or whatever. But because he is sort of C-list celeb, he's kind low-key...
01:22:21.04
Alistair
Right.
01:22:26.76
Wednesday Lee Friday
celeb he's kind of lowki He has a day job in addition to doing the things that he's famous for.
01:22:32.64
Alistair
Yeah.
01:22:33.05
Wednesday Lee Friday
People do get fixed. And plus, he's approachable.
01:22:37.24
Alistair
Yeah.
01:22:37.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, he's low-key enough that if you find him on threads, you make a comment, he'll see it. Because there's like 15 comments.
01:22:43.26
Alistair
Right.
01:22:44.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know?
01:22:45.47
Alistair
Right.
01:22:46.19
Wednesday Lee Friday
So...
01:22:46.29
Alistair
And that's, yeah. And so so I just was, I was just, you know, not, um you know, anyway, it got bad enough.
01:22:56.31
Alistair
He stalked me. I moved to Facebook. He found me there. On and on it went. I finally ended up going to the cops because the threats were really bad and he was, it was ugly.
01:23:05.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
How unhelpful were the cops?
01:23:07.63
Alistair
Um, pretty unhelpful. But, um, what basically what ended up happening is I shut everything down and I changed my name.
01:23:17.99
Alistair
I don't go by my real name and I don't put my real name out there. Um, and, uh, it's, it's great because it worked out great because you know, for writing it's, it's, but yeah, I,
01:23:32.41
Alistair
I don't say what state I'm even in. If people ask me, I mean, we did the radio show. And if that's one thing that I'm like, I will, I will lie. I'll lie at the drop of a hat. You know, where do you live? Oh, and whatever comes out of my mouth comes out of my mouth.
01:23:45.62
Alistair
No, no. And that might sound super paranoid, but I'm telling you, it is not.
01:23:49.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, man. it no it it isn't.
01:23:50.77
Alistair
You do not. Yeah. And then, and then the second one was a ah ah woman who, and real real life in the 3D world.
01:24:02.36
Alistair
um I met her also online, but she was local and she really, you know, i was published and writing then and she thought that I was, she was a little bit older than me and she thought I was so cute.
01:24:14.00
Alistair
And um I reminded her of Jensen Ackles, which I don't see at all.
01:24:18.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh my goodness.
01:24:19.04
Alistair
I know, but she but that's what she said. Oh, you remind me of Jensen Ackles and oh, he's so, and anyway,
01:24:24.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
Dude, but like that show and that fan base, I don't know what it is, man, but some of those people seem really nuts about it.
01:24:27.44
Alistair
Yeah. yeah
01:24:32.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, like it's a psychopathy.
01:24:32.55
Alistair
Yeah. Yeah. You know, and this was when, you know, I had, I now have long hair and I don't, I'd never looked anything like him, but the point is, is for whatever reason, she, she thought I reminded her of Dean Winchester's but specifically, and she kind of fixated on me. And like I said, she was local and I found out that she had this,
01:24:54.71
Alistair
really unhealthy obsession with Jensen Ackles. And when she met me, she kind of just moved, transferred it onto me. And this one was real.
01:25:02.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, well, because again, you're you seem attainable and local.
01:25:03.85
Alistair
This one was, yeah.
01:25:07.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
And and that's the thing is that when and someone is fixated on someone who is like, like if if you approach Taylor Swift and online and she doesn't answer you, you're much less likely to be like, well, why not?
01:25:07.48
Alistair
Yes.
01:25:21.07
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, why not?
01:25:21.46
Alistair
Right, exactly.
01:25:21.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
what What do you do? You know, she's got stuff going on. But if you're the guy down the street, that's that's all that's a whole different set of circumstances.
01:25:26.44
Alistair
Right.
01:25:29.39
Alistair
Right. And so so I have learned to be very, very, very elusive, not very even communicative. And people are like, oh, well you need to be more. No, I don't. No, I don't. I'm here to write books. And if you're interested in my books, you can read my books. but I don't need to be your buddy.
01:25:45.35
Alistair
I don't need to be buddies with people I don't know, even if they, you know, But anyway, so this woman, this was physical. she she She knew where I found out where I lived. She, she yeah, apparently you can go online and find these things. It was insane.
01:26:00.05
Alistair
And so she was a real physical threat and it was scary. I may be a man and she was a woman, but it was scary. And I ended up moving. I left the state, which was a stroke of luck. I didn't leave because of her, but it was the timing was perfect.
01:26:14.28
Alistair
And this is when I moved to um St. Louis and I didn't tell anybody. I didn't post it, but it was the damnedest thing. I'd blocked her number and on on the road somewhere in Kansas on my way to to a Missouri, my phone rings and it's it's her.
01:26:33.76
Alistair
Where are you going? How did you get my number? And I said, I don't know. I don't know. Creepy, creepy stuff.
01:26:39.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
Jesus.
01:26:39.28
Alistair
Anyway, it would have been really ugly um because i had a home in where I was moving from. And it i had I had a renter and this woman knew where I lived.
01:26:49.67
Alistair
And I was so worried about so many things. But um I'm going to say this and it's going to make me sound like a horrible person. And I don't care. I got super lucky because she died.
01:26:57.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
oh Oh, Jesus.
01:26:58.55
Alistair
Yeah, she had a heart attack and died. Thank God.
01:27:02.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, don't terrorize people, you know?
01:27:04.09
Alistair
yeah
01:27:06.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
mean...
01:27:06.39
Alistair
I, I've, I've never felt, I mean, when I, I looked her up,
01:27:10.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
You are allowed to feel good when your abuser dies.
01:27:14.21
Alistair
I, I always, I always would check online to, to see if she, has she, has she found me? I you know look her up on Facebook. I'd look at one day I Googled it. I didn't see anything. Couldn't find anything. Googled her name, came across her obituary and I laughed
01:27:32.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, I don't have...
01:27:32.87
Alistair
That's how horrible of a person I am, but I did. I, i this had gone on for.
01:27:35.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
i don't think that's horrible at all. I think that is a celebration of your freedom from someone who was hurting you for selfish reasons.
01:27:39.63
Alistair
Yeah.
01:27:44.65
Alistair
Yeah.
01:27:45.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like that's, that shit's not okay.
01:27:45.71
Alistair
Yeah. yeah And I, and I want to, I want to, you know, I really glossed over it, but this went on for ah couple years.
01:27:47.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
And,
01:27:54.35
Alistair
This went on for a while and it was it was involved people who were close to me, it involved my home, it involved, I've really glossed over the top, but yeah.
01:28:03.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
No, no, man.
01:28:04.99
Alistair
It, yeah.
01:28:05.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's the thing. is that let's Let's not gloss over it. Let's point out the fact that a stalker, simply by knowing who you are and where you live and telling you that, is terrorizing you.
01:28:18.18
Alistair
Yes.
01:28:18.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
Their goal is to make you feel unsafe where you live.
01:28:21.95
Alistair
That's exactly what the goal is. It is not about sex.
01:28:23.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
And...
01:28:25.07
Alistair
It is not about Jensen Ackles. It's not about being cute. It's not about being so interesting. I actually had a woman say to me once when I was going through this, I told her what was going on and she said to me, oh I wish I had a stalker.
01:28:39.02
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh, Jesus. See?
01:28:40.02
Alistair
i couldn't even I couldn't even speak to that woman again after that.
01:28:42.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, there's a line of thinking that, like, maybe it should be flattering that someone is investing that time and energy in you, but it's not.
01:28:42.84
Alistair
I was just like, are you serious? This is not about being important.
01:28:49.02
Alistair
It's not.
01:28:51.83
Alistair
Yep.
01:28:51.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because when it happens without your consent, it's not for you.
01:28:52.40
Alistair
It is not.
01:28:56.25
Alistair
Well...
01:28:57.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's for them.
01:28:58.00
Alistair
and and furthermore And furthermore, how much does it have to do with you? Do you really think you're special? Because let me tell you something. The only reason it wasn't Jensen Ackles is because I came along. She couldn't get to him.
01:29:10.45
Alistair
If I would have died first, she would have moved to someone else. It's not about me. It's not personal. They don't care. They don't even know who you are. It's not about you. It's about a sickness in them.
01:29:21.25
Alistair
And this is one of those cases where, yes, you're sick. Go be sick somewhere else.
01:29:27.66
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep, yep, yep.
01:29:29.27
Alistair
I just, I don't have any, I don't have any compassion for it. I don't have any, I, to me, that is very much a choice. You, you, you decide to to do this to someone and, and you, it's not flattering. It's not fun.
01:29:43.46
Alistair
And it's, it, it, what you said encapsulates it perfectly. The goal is to make you feel unsafe. They thrive on it. They love it. That's what both of them did.
01:29:55.37
Alistair
I know where you live. I saw your sister at the store. Oh, I saw your niece. Oh, I know. i have your license plate number. I got your number. i got your blah, blah, blah. You know, this is all meant to make you walk around looking over your shoulder. What are they going to do?
01:30:12.95
Alistair
You know, am I afraid?
01:30:13.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, it's to feel powerful.
01:30:13.87
Alistair
am I, am i Right. Now, physically, I'm bigger than this woman. I could have taken her down physically. That has nothing to do with it. I'm like, first of all, I'm not going to beat your ass in Walmart. I mean, I don't know what, you know, wherever you approach me.
01:30:28.48
Alistair
It's beyond that. It's insane. It's like, what are you going to do? And who are you going to do it to? You know what I mean? Or is is someone innocent, someone that i I care about going to get involved because that's how you figure that's how you're going get to me?
01:30:42.20
Alistair
Yeah, it's scary. It's not flattering. And when I hear, I hear people talk about, you know, stalking and it just, yeah. yeah
01:30:50.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, it's it's not positive attention.
01:30:52.35
Alistair
It is not positive attention and it's not even personal.
01:30:53.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's, it's, no, it's, it's terror disguised.
01:30:55.17
Alistair
It's not about you.
01:30:57.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's, it's just a big ball of gaslighting that's supposed to look like fandom, but isn't.
01:30:57.92
Alistair
It's exactly. Yep.
01:31:02.20
Wednesday Lee Friday
I know from fandom.
01:31:02.69
Alistair
Mm-hmm.
01:31:03.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
I have been a rabid fangirl at many times in my life, but.
01:31:04.01
Alistair
Mm-hmm.
01:31:06.84
Alistair
Oh, I know, me too. I'm like, you know what? You know who I love for some reason since I was eight years old? I love Stevie Nicks. I just love her vibe.
01:31:13.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
Aw.
01:31:13.97
Alistair
I love her style.
01:31:15.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's an excellent choice.
01:31:15.61
Alistair
I just, yeah, I just, I love that woman.
01:31:16.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
Mm-hmm.
01:31:18.39
Alistair
I've seen her in concerts. i You know what i mean? If I ever met her... I would be so respectful. There's no way I would ever do anything I'm like, no, I wouldn't even go up and be like, oh my God.
01:31:25.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:31:30.74
Alistair
what I'd just be like, I would, i would just be like, you know what? You are, you know, a big part of, you know, she is, she's, you know creatively, she, she was, One of the reasons I wanted to write, I loved her lyrics.
01:31:42.32
Alistair
I loved the, you know, she, she, her songs had imagery, you know, and something I could hold on to, you know, my, as a kid with no attention span, you know, she'd sing about things that you could see in your mind and that, you know, plus she was kind of spooky, you know, a little bit.
01:31:46.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
01:31:55.80
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and the older you get and the more you know about the world and about her life, the more you realize what a goddamn queen she was.
01:31:56.92
Alistair
And I love that.
01:32:04.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
i mean, the whole...
01:32:05.06
Alistair
Right. And right. And I would never ever, I just really like her. I really like her. I've always really liked her lover vibe. i I've always kind of had a crush on her and it's like a crush, but it goes beyond a crush. She's fantastic. I think she's talented. Amazing.
01:32:19.15
Alistair
I don't wish to terrorize her. Why would I do that?
01:32:23.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, exactly. Because you are not broken in that particular way. um
01:32:29.23
Alistair
right
01:32:30.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
But no, I always i always think of Silver Spring, which is such a great song and just how ah sheets you know she has to sing it right there with Lindsey Buckingham just standing there being like, yeah, this song is about an asshole and that asshole is me.
01:32:33.25
Alistair
yeah
01:32:35.95
Alistair
Isn't it?
01:32:41.66
Alistair
Yep.
01:32:47.29
Alistair
Yeah, you want to you want to hear an interesting thing on that note, since you brought that up?
01:32:47.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
Please. please
01:32:51.23
Alistair
um The woman who was stalking me, she knew. i was a Stevie Nicks fan. She would post on my page on my page of Facebook every day that live version.
01:33:05.34
Alistair
You know, I'll follow you down until the sound of my voice will haunt you.
01:33:05.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Uh-huh.
01:33:08.99
Alistair
You'll never get away from the sound of the woman that loved you.
01:33:09.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep, yep.
01:33:12.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, no, that's not...
01:33:13.32
Alistair
Really?
01:33:14.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
um That's like people that play every breath you take at their wedding.
01:33:15.53
Alistair
You know, pointed things like that because, you know.
01:33:20.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's like, first of all, you don't even understand what this song is about.
01:33:20.33
Alistair
Right.
01:33:23.35
Alistair
Right.
01:33:23.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
if
01:33:24.01
Alistair
And let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. There are certain there are certain things that when I was younger, before I had these experiences, never bothered me. um
01:33:33.41
Alistair
Things like that, like that song, Every Breath You Take. God, it creeps me out.
01:33:36.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
It is a creepy song.
01:33:37.25
Alistair
It really creeps me out. I'm like, it has a good beat. It has a good, but if I listen to it and even the tone of his voice, I'm like, no, no, no.
01:33:43.94
Wednesday Lee Friday
But see, that's the thing about the band, the police in general, a lot of their songs are just wackadoo songs.
01:33:45.17
Alistair
It's a different experience now.
01:33:53.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's like, you know, you're singing along, singing along, and it's like, wait a minute, is he singing about a sextile?
01:33:53.42
Alistair
Right. Right. Yeah.
01:33:59.33
Alistair
Right.
01:33:59.41
Wednesday Lee Friday
He is! Yeah.
01:34:00.58
Alistair
Yeah. I, right. But yeah, I'm not even, I'm, I'm totally able to separate art from artists for the most part, I think for the most part in most cases. So I don't think or care.
01:34:13.69
Alistair
yeah i don't think sting or whoever wrote that song is a creepster. And even if he is, I i don't care. It's a good song, but I just, when I hear it it has a whole different meaning to me now.
01:34:24.42
Alistair
Now I'm like, nah, it just makes me a little uneasy.
01:34:30.34
Alistair
You know,
01:34:30.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, it's it's not a love song, I guess, is the takeaway.
01:34:34.72
Alistair
But you, you also, I remember you telling me this and I, a little bit, but you have experience with stalking too, because you were, but as you said, a phone sex operator, which, whoo boy, I can imagine.
01:34:48.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, well, and that was... It was back in the day. So we had, you know, I was doing it on a landline and it's very easy to find someone's address if you have it on a landline.
01:34:55.09
Alistair
Right.
01:35:01.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
And at the time, my phone was in my ah boyfriend slash fiance slash abuser's name. And um but so he started calling every day asking for my boyfriend by name.
01:35:16.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
And then, you know, at at first I was just like, eh, fuck off, and I'd hang up or whatever. And then finally the boyfriend was like, well, let me talk to him. and And he threatened to kill him.
01:35:28.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
And so the kind of boyfriend that he was was not well-suited to those kinds of of threats.
01:35:28.94
Alistair
yeah
01:35:35.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
So he was, you know, he he dealt with that threat by, like, driving to his parents' house and bringing back a shotgun. And... and
01:35:43.38
Alistair
Naturally, right?
01:35:44.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, well, I see where you're going with that, but I'm of the opinion that most conflicts are not improved with with Crossfire.
01:35:44.26
Alistair
yeah
01:35:50.95
Alistair
With gunfire, right?
01:35:52.69
Wednesday Lee Friday
um with that that type Yeah, I'm more of a de-escalator, if I can help it.
01:35:53.67
Alistair
Yeah.
01:35:59.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, but yeah, and i I ended up calling the police because I was still a young, naive white person who thought that the police's job was to help people.
01:36:09.93
Alistair
Right, right.
01:36:10.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Whoops. and
01:36:11.86
Alistair
Wow. Wow.
01:36:12.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, you know, I explained the situation and the cop just stared at me and he said, well, what do you expect me to do about it?
01:36:20.51
Alistair
wow
01:36:20.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
And I was like, okay, let me ask you that same question.
01:36:21.38
Alistair
wow
01:36:25.21
Wednesday Lee Friday
A man I don't know just gave me my own address and threatened the life of me and and my partner. What am I supposed to do about it? Because, you know, and and he basically, the cop was like, well, if they make it onto your property, you can shoot him.
01:36:42.80
Alistair
You know, i i right.
01:36:42.86
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, well, what if I want to leave my property? i might need groceries or laundry done at some point.
01:36:48.42
Alistair
You know what's really messed up? And I don't mean, I want to get back to this, but I just have to inject this while I'm while i'm thinking about it. When I went to the police, and this is for the guy that was stalking me online.
01:37:00.90
Alistair
The police weren't super duper helpful, but they did tell me, they said, you know what, we can trace it. We can find out where he is and we can basically do a cease and desist. It ended up not needing to happen because I ended up changing my name.
01:37:14.45
Alistair
But my point is, why were they more helpful with me with this cyber stalker who actually ended up being in a different country, come to find out.
01:37:25.21
Alistair
um But they're just like, what do you want me to do about it? That's messed up.
01:37:31.46
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, yeah, be well, the I mean, i the thing that that galls me about it is that if the cop had showed up and I was smoking weed, he would have been he would have done something about it, you know, and and the thing that always kills me, because once I made this realization, it just blew my friggin mind because people talk a lot about like criminals and people
01:37:42.59
Alistair
Sure. Right.
01:37:54.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
how people get treated when they're arrested and, you know, all that there. But the thing is, if I go to a store and I try to walk out with something I didn't purchase, I'll be arrested.
01:38:05.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
If I work at the store and I show up to the cops with evidence of wage theft, like paperwork, evidence, absolute 100% proof that my boss is commit committing wage theft, they're not going to arrest my boss.
01:38:18.69
Alistair
Right, right, right.
01:38:19.27
Wednesday Lee Friday
They're going to tell me to get a lawyer. Even though it's theft, it's the same friggin' thing.
01:38:24.73
Alistair
Yeah.
01:38:24.90
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, yeah, i've I've become much less like the more I've lived in the world. I've actually never had a situation where I've called the police to help me and had the police show up and improve the situation.
01:38:38.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, that's literally never happened to me.
01:38:38.65
Alistair
Yeah.
01:38:41.07
Alistair
Yeah.
01:38:41.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
They've always either done nothing or they have aggravated the situation.
01:38:45.06
Alistair
Right, right.
01:38:47.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah Well, when I was a teenager, um my friends came to pick me up for a school slash church event, and and my mom had just beaten the hell out of me for something.
01:38:59.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
And so when they came up and saw the aftermath of that, they were like, you know what? We're sick of this. We're going to the cops. And my friends went to the cops and told the cops that I was regularly being beaten. The cops came to our house and they made a big to do out of it.
01:39:12.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
It was like two cop cars with flashing lights showed up for this in a little neighborhood where you could hear people next door because the houses were just that close together.
01:39:15.40
Alistair
Right.
01:39:22.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
So they made just a big showy to do of it, separated all of us, questioned everybody. And they asked me, like, are your parents hitting you? And I was like, my mom does. And they asked if I was afraid of what would happen after they left. And I said yes. And they said, would you like us to take you out of here?
01:39:39.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Would you do you have any interest in a foster home? And I was like, as long as my brothers are safe, yes. Because, you know, they weren't getting it as bad as me because she hated my dad and they had a different dad. She was married to their dad.
01:39:52.37
Alistair
yeah
01:39:52.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, you know, the dynamic was pretty obvious in hindsight. But the cops left me there. They told my mom everything I said, said I needed therapy, and left my ass there.
01:40:06.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
And at that point, I should have known enough not to trust cops. But the way that my brain worked then, i was like, oh, i'm yeah they don't believe me, again.
01:40:16.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
They only believe her, again.
01:40:17.15
Alistair
yeah
01:40:19.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
And, you know, but But that that kind of started my journey of the cops like just not helping and not... like you know As far as I knew, it was movies and TV where cops actually help people.
01:40:35.61
Alistair
Right. And you know, and exactly.
01:40:36.09
Wednesday Lee Friday
But doctor shows are the same way. it's like I've never gone to a doctor that's like house that's like, okay, we're going to get to the bottom of this.
01:40:43.09
Alistair
Right.
01:40:43.33
Wednesday Lee Friday
you know They're like, well, you sound like you might be lying, but have you tried losing weight?
01:40:48.63
Alistair
Oh
01:40:48.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, what? What a fascinating idea. Losing weight. No one's ever said that to me before. Thank you.
01:40:54.56
Alistair
my God. You sound like you might be one.
01:40:55.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
I am so glad this cost $300 and a copay.
01:41:00.07
Alistair
You know, it's true, though. You have to you have to figure. i i totally i'm totally with you on on the cop thing. um I've had some good doctors. I'm not going to lie.
01:41:12.29
Alistair
I've had some good doctors. um A few.
01:41:15.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, you're a man.
01:41:16.02
Alistair
not Not many.
01:41:16.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
They probably believe what you say.
01:41:18.19
Alistair
maybe Maybe, maybe that's what it is, but I'm with you. Maybe, seriously, but but I have had some good doctors, but i'm but I'm with you on the cop thing. I'm like, I actually started out so naive, you know, when I was young and thinking, you know, well, they're good. They're doing their job. ah I have come to the point in my life where i hate to say this because it just makes me sound ugly and i just don't like them.
01:41:42.06
Alistair
I don't have legal problems. I don't have a criminal record. I've never been in real trouble with the law. It's not about that. I just don't like them. It is just through, you know, for 20 years. I mean, my God, I have been pulled over for the stupidest shit. And, oh, have you been drinking? Do I look like I've been drinking? Oh, it smells like pot in here. Well, why does it smell like pot? I don't smoke pot. Leave me alone. i have been so bothered by the God. over the course of you wouldn't believe that I have copsters oh I have cop stories and I have a absolutely pristine record absolutely I'm a law-abiding citizen I swear to god they're just annoying not a fan I'm not a fan
01:42:23.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep, nobody's blaming you.
01:42:27.62
Alistair
but at the same time there must be good ones out there there must be i mean there has to be
01:42:31.35
Wednesday Lee Friday
i'm I'm sure that there are cops that are well-intentioned, that that mean well, but, you know, it's kind of like the Nazi thing. Just because you're not doing it yourself, if...
01:42:38.59
Alistair
On the same way that Margaret White was well-intentioned.
01:42:41.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, well yeah, I mean, if if you see shenanigans and you don't do or say anything to stop those shenanigans, then you might as well be shenanigan-ing yourself.
01:42:53.39
Alistair
Right, right.
01:42:55.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know? I mean, that's that's the thing that, like... you have an elevated responsibility to do right and to stop wrong. That's the whole job that you have.
01:43:04.04
Alistair
Right.
01:43:05.37
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's why you get to shoot people at work if you need to. So because you get to do all that, you have a much higher standard for, you know, buckery and, and, you know, we we know what we're saying.
01:43:09.19
Alistair
Yeah.
01:43:19.74
Wednesday Lee Friday
We don't have to go on and on about cops.
01:43:20.49
Alistair
Well, and I've seen, and I i know and one more thing though, and and the abuse of power is really what it, what I see a lot of.
01:43:21.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
We know.
01:43:27.04
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, yeah, exactly.
01:43:28.64
Alistair
That is, that is the problem. And it's like, you do not need to pull me over, yank me out of my car, search my car, talk down to me, bully me.
01:43:40.27
Alistair
i literally, go ahead, search my car. I literally have nothing to add. I don't even smoke pot. I don't like it. I literally nothing. And I'm like, these guys, I've so many times, so many times. I don't know if it's maybe, maybe the doctors, you know, believe me because I'm a dude and maybe the cops are harder on me because I'm a dude. I don't know. But I'm like, I have had a really, it's just, oh, and I love it when you're like stuck at a ah red light and they turn their, they come and pull up next to you and sit there for a few minutes and turn their lights on and go through it.
01:44:10.53
Alistair
And They're not going anywhere.
01:44:11.38
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, but...
01:44:12.21
Alistair
They're just like, eh, I'm like, come on. Uh-huh.
01:44:15.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, but, like, you have long hair. Long hair means pot, if you're a grown man.
01:44:20.32
Alistair
Maybe, maybe, maybe. i don't know. i just I just have had a really, you know even starting you know when I was young, when I had when i had short hair. you know But yeah, I just, I don't know what it is. They just...
01:44:32.03
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean...
01:44:32.11
Alistair
i Like I said, it's abuse of power, and I think that there are not very many people who are good in positions of authority. I think you have to be really careful who you put into a position of authority, especially when it's something like the law where you can be aggressive and you can lie to people legally and you can push people around.
01:44:55.05
Alistair
um I think it takes a certain type of person to be good with that kind of authority. And i unfortunately, i think that most of them are not.
01:45:04.98
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, no, and it's very much a job where the people that seem the most gung-ho to get those perks and privileges are the people who should least have them.
01:45:14.06
Alistair
Right.
01:45:14.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
But I feel that way about a lot of gun culture. But it's also an issue of like, you know, there's not a news story that says plane landed at destination safely.
01:45:17.71
Alistair
Yeah.
01:45:24.70
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, we we hear about the bad ones because they're bad.
01:45:26.90
Alistair
Right.
01:45:27.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
So there's probably plenty of decent ones, just like there's plenty of decent Christians and a couple of loud assholes giving everybody a bad name.
01:45:28.24
Alistair
Right.
01:45:35.07
Alistair
right Right. I mean, this is that this is the thing. And this is this is that that balance that you have to find. Because it's like, I i agree. I'm, you know, yeah. I'm with you on that one, too.
01:45:43.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
But then when do you get to the point where, like, I don't know, as far as I i read the numbers, police presence doesn't make a neighborhood safer. Like, things that make a place safer are everyone having enough.
01:45:53.95
Alistair
No.
01:45:57.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
People not being desperate. People not being cheated.
01:45:59.13
Alistair
Right.
01:46:00.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
People not being, like, angry and furious and frightened all the time.
01:46:04.42
Alistair
Which is common sense.
01:46:04.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, the
01:46:05.42
Alistair
What do you do when you're desperate? What do you do when you're scared? What do you do when you're in need? You know?
01:46:12.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yep.
01:46:12.22
Alistair
It's common sense.
01:46:13.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, and that's why the Fash are, like, tearing everything up right now, because they're making everyone, like, prices are going to keep getting higher, and they're just haphazardly firing people and removing protections from the most vulnerable people.
01:46:13.40
Alistair
I totally...
01:46:27.25
Wednesday Lee Friday
So then, I mean, there's going to be plenty more Luigi's where that came from.
01:46:27.55
Alistair
Right.
01:46:32.70
Alistair
but And that's the thing, you know, and that's a really nuanced thing right there, too. I had to look into that to be like, what's going on with this? And I'm like, boy, that's a that's a mixed bag. Well,
01:46:42.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, but I mean, I told you I got sick in 2022. Everybody knows that. I was in the hospital for 17 straight days. And the whole time I was there, first of all, H and i argued for over a day, like over a full day in between me telling the ambulance guys to get out of the house. Actually, I shouldn't say that. I shouldn't call them ambulance guys. They're paramedics.
01:47:03.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
And that's a skill.
01:47:03.53
Alistair
Right.
01:47:04.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
they're They're far more than just driving an ambulance.
01:47:04.67
Alistair
Right. Right.
01:47:07.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
They're saving people's lives.
01:47:08.57
Alistair
right right
01:47:09.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
but But the point is we argued and I mean he was the the angriest I have ever seen him. Like he actually made a fist with his hand and like shook his fist at the ground.
01:47:19.36
Wednesday Lee Friday
He was so frustrated because he kept saying you need to go.
01:47:21.20
Alistair
right
01:47:23.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
We need to save you. And I kept saying there's no reason to spend the money. You know, I'm pretty old. We don't have any kids. There's no reason to spend thousands of dollars keeping me alive.
01:47:31.85
Alistair
but
01:47:34.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
And...
01:47:35.55
Alistair
That's horrible.
01:47:36.24
Wednesday Lee Friday
And all these people said, well, you remember the post.
01:47:36.55
Alistair
ah
01:47:38.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
All these people were like, oh, it's not about the money.
01:47:39.48
Alistair
I do, I do.
01:47:40.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
Just go, just go And it occurred to me i didn't do it. But it occurred to me to tag every single one of those people when we got that bill, because that bill, the first bill we got was $149,000.
01:47:57.18
Alistair
Wow.
01:47:57.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
It was more than a fucking house in this neighborhood. Like I live in Ann Arbor.
01:48:01.50
Alistair
Right.
01:48:01.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
Houses are expensive here. And I still could have bought a house for the amount of money that they charged me to be in the hospital for 17
01:48:05.32
Alistair
Right.
01:48:09.26
Wednesday Lee Friday
And guess who my insurer is?
01:48:09.43
Alistair
Wow.
01:48:11.17
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's UHC.
01:48:12.93
Alistair
Yeah.
01:48:12.93
Wednesday Lee Friday
So when I was, I just remember waking up that day and saying, hey, they shot our insurer. H was like, not going to ask why.
01:48:23.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
but
01:48:24.30
Alistair
Right, right? it Exactly. No, it's, yeah, that's insane.
01:48:27.29
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, well, you know what? They kill people. When you tell someone they can't have the care that they need, despite the fact that they're paying, that's what insurance is for.
01:48:30.95
Alistair
Yeah.
01:48:39.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
You're killing people, except it's legal.
01:48:41.40
Alistair
Yeah.
01:48:42.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's like the wage theft. You can't go to the police and say they wouldn't allow us to get this treatment and now my person is going to die.
01:48:44.49
Alistair
Yeah.
01:48:50.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
They're not going to go arrest them because society is set up in such a way that that's an absolutely acceptable way to kill people.
01:48:52.13
Alistair
Right.
01:48:56.86
Alistair
Right. Exactly. It's true. It is. And I think the insurance issue is one of the most.
01:49:05.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, it's just killing us for profit for already rich people.
01:49:06.72
Alistair
It's almost.
01:49:08.78
Wednesday Lee Friday
That's that's all it is.
01:49:09.03
Alistair
Oh, I know.
01:49:09.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
it's an It's a fucking broligarchy bullshit that every other civilized country in the world does not have to contend with.
01:49:10.06
Alistair
and. and
01:49:17.39
Alistair
I know. And I, to me, I'm like, you know what? I think you go, you get the medical care that you need. um they They have to treat you. And when that bill comes, oh, well, what are they going to do?
01:49:30.82
Alistair
That's my attitude. What are they going to do? Send you more bills, put a frowny face by your name in their file.
01:49:36.01
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, that's the thing. It's like, we don't even have anything they could take. We don't have a car.
01:49:39.81
Alistair
Exactly.
01:49:40.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
We don't have a house, you know?
01:49:41.37
Alistair
Exactly. And furthermore, and furthermore, they couldn't even do that. They could not take your house or your, I mean, there's all kinds of, you know what? All they can do is push you around and bully you and try to intimidate you.
01:49:52.02
Alistair
You get the care that you need. They have to help you. And if if they and then, like I said, when you get that bill, oh, well, because if you can't afford it, you can't afford it. You can't get blood out of a turnip. And it pisses me off when I hear stories like that, because I'm like, it's not fair.
01:50:06.66
Alistair
It's not right. But you know what? They can't do anything to you.
01:50:12.53
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, I don't think, like right now I'm in a situation where I can't get admitted to see my doctor. Because you can't do the online check-in if you have an overdue balance.
01:50:22.38
Alistair
OK.
01:50:22.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
And you can't really just walk in and, like, if you need to go to the emergency room, the emergency room has to take you.
01:50:28.58
Alistair
Right. Right.
01:50:29.65
Wednesday Lee Friday
But they don't have to admit you. Like, if you don't have insurance and you can't show them that you can pay, they don't have to admit you.
01:50:31.76
Alistair
Right.
01:50:34.98
Alistair
Then they're like, yeah.
01:50:36.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
it's It's a crapshoot.
01:50:38.07
Alistair
It's sick.
01:50:38.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, hospitals that have a charity program, like I went to U of M Hospital, so I was the most fortunate that I could possibly be that I went to a ah very good hospital, but also a hospital where where they say, like you said, you know what, we're just going to do it and we'll work the rest out later.
01:50:39.18
Alistair
It's so sick.
01:50:55.09
Alistair
Exactly.
01:50:55.79
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because they had a charity program. Well, we're trying to get back on the charity program because they want to do a thing ah to my heart so it can work right. Because it turns out if you have apnea from birth and it's not treated until your 30s, your whole body didn't really get put together right.
01:51:05.10
Alistair
Yeah.
01:51:12.60
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it's going to fall apart way earlier than it it would have otherwise.
01:51:12.69
Alistair
Really?
01:51:17.90
Alistair
So when you were sick a couple years ago, was it, I can't remember, it had to do with that, didn't it? Or was it, it was COVID, but it had, but it hit you so hard, I think because of, yes, yeah.
01:51:22.68
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, it I had COVID... Which, it knocked my heart out of its rhythm. And I was in AFib for months, and I had no idea.
01:51:28.80
Alistair
yeah
01:51:33.49
Alistair
Wow.
01:51:33.81
Wednesday Lee Friday
The only reason I know when I'm in AFib now is because when I got out of the hospital, my buddy bought me an Apple Watch. And he was like, here, now you'll know if your heart is turning on you.
01:51:40.72
Alistair
Yikes.
01:51:43.80
Alistair
Right?
01:51:44.11
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, okay.
01:51:47.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
and And, you know, last November, that's what happened.
01:51:47.23
Alistair
Yikes.
01:51:50.39
Wednesday Lee Friday
My heart rate went over 140 and stayed that way. And I was trying to go to sleep because I didn't feel well. And my watch was like, no, get up. Your heart's bad. Get up. Your heart's bad.
01:52:01.00
Wednesday Lee Friday
And it just kept going off.
01:52:02.49
Alistair
Oh my gosh.
01:52:03.48
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah. So my Apple Watch probably saved my life.
01:52:06.98
Alistair
Nice.
01:52:07.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
thanks Thanks, Tim Apple. um
01:52:08.96
Alistair
I know, right? Right? Gotta love technology. I actually love technology for the most part. Stuff like that.
01:52:13.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
I mean, I'm a fan of it and it, but it is, again, a double-edged sword because it seems like if somebody wanted to find me knowing that I'm wearing an Apple Watch at all times, they probably could.
01:52:17.99
Alistair
It is.
01:52:25.55
Wednesday Lee Friday
of course, my phone probably does the same thing.
01:52:28.21
Alistair
ah Right?
01:52:28.58
Wednesday Lee Friday
I don't turn location on on my phone because, you know, I'm no contact with my family, and every once in a while I feel paranoid that, like,
01:52:28.97
Alistair
Right?
01:52:35.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, if somebody threatens to kill you enough times, eventually you're like, wait, what if they do?
01:52:39.34
Alistair
exactly yeah I know, I know.
01:52:44.49
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right. So we're actually getting to the end of our two hours and I want to make sure we discuss what the best place is to start if someone is completely unfamiliar with your work.
01:52:56.30
Alistair
Well, if you um it depends. if you If you like standalone novels, um I have a Dream Reaper, which is like angels and demons and very Faustian concept. If you like murder mystery and ghosts, there's Sleep Savannah Sleep, and that's kind of like a paranormal murder mystery.
01:53:18.24
Alistair
That's probably my cleanest book. It's my least horrific, although there's plenty of horror, but it's a little more straightforward murder mystery, paranormal. And if you like vampires, you start with the crimson corset and you can work your way through.
01:53:32.89
Alistair
As far as the collaborations, if you like gothic horror, that's kind of like it you know kind like our spin on gothic romance. It's like... Rebecca plus horror, that's the Ghosts of Ravencrest. That's the first book in the Ravencrest saga. Otherwise, the rest are standalones other than Spite House.
01:53:50.13
Alistair
If you like haunted house stories, we have a three book series called the Spite House Chronicles. It's Spite House, Spiteful Creatures, and, oh, sorry, Spite House, Spite Island, and Spiteful Creatures.
01:54:03.45
Alistair
And you can find me and everything I do at my website, which is alistaircross.com. And coming up the 12th, March 12th through the 19th, I have a big sale coming for my Empires of Crimson Cove book. So if this gets aired before then, then you can check it out.
01:54:24.74
Alistair
And if not, then that's OK, That's it.
01:54:28.32
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Well, we'll have links in the description. you Do you have a Linktree?
01:54:32.33
Alistair
I have what?
01:54:32.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
A Linktree?
01:54:34.47
Alistair
I don't even know what that means.
01:54:35.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh my gosh! No, you have to you have to do that. I'm just going to plug for Linktree. um
01:54:40.07
Alistair
Link tree.
01:54:40.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because, yeah, well, no, it's for like if you have, um you know, like on Instagram, you're only allowed to put up one link on your profile.
01:54:40.71
Alistair
I don't even know what it is.
01:54:48.32
Alistair
Right. Yeah.
01:54:49.30
Wednesday Lee Friday
So it it allows you to make a link that goes to all your other links.
01:54:54.34
Alistair
Oh, like a link tree.
01:54:54.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:54:56.28
Alistair
I get it. Nice. Nice.
01:54:58.73
Wednesday Lee Friday
It is aptly named.
01:54:59.13
Alistair
nice
01:54:59.85
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah, and and they're great because of, you know, that you can set it up with, like, if you want your social media, if you want to do, like, all your different book series as a separate link.
01:55:07.69
Alistair
Right, right.
01:55:08.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
So it's it's helpful in that way. um
01:55:11.13
Alistair
Right. I'll check it out. That's brilliant.
01:55:12.50
Wednesday Lee Friday
Plus, I mean, get with the times, Grandpa. Internet?
01:55:14.65
Alistair
I know, right? i'm like, Linktree, what is this? What is this sorcery you speak of? for this but What's the World Wide Web?
01:55:19.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
Internet? ne
01:55:25.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
good I'm gonna surf it! if When people used to say that, I'm surfing the web!
01:55:28.98
Alistair
but know, right? Seriously, yeah.
01:55:33.14
Alistair
ah Yep. Surfing the web. And I don't know wow that what they were talking about. You couldn't surf on dial-up. it was like, there was no surfing.
01:55:39.40
Wednesday Lee Friday
No. No.
01:55:41.60
Alistair
It was like waiting for, yeah you couldn't even watch porn in those days. it took for forever.
01:55:44.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
Oh no, man, I remember, like, setting up a trailer to download and then going to bed.
01:55:51.68
Alistair
Yep.
01:55:51.83
Wednesday Lee Friday
Because in the morning, if no one called on the phone,
01:55:54.79
Alistair
Yeah.
01:55:54.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
You would have it.
01:55:56.40
Alistair
As long as nobody called.
01:55:59.08
Wednesday Lee Friday
Right, because there was one landline and no one had friggin' cell phones yet.
01:55:59.15
Alistair
Telling everybody, don't call. Yep.
01:56:03.64
Wednesday Lee Friday
Like, maybe you had a pager.
01:56:04.08
Alistair
Yep.
01:56:04.88
Wednesday Lee Friday
But, okay, so it is time for the Mad Lib.
01:56:05.80
Alistair
Yep.
01:56:07.67
Wednesday Lee Friday
I hope you are ready for some nouns because I need one, two, three, four, five, six singular nouns.
01:56:08.94
Alistair
I...
01:56:16.09
Alistair
Six singular nouns. Okay. um Human Lampshade. Like made from human flesh, I don't know whatever you want to call it.
01:56:24.12
Wednesday Lee Friday
I know what a human lampshade is.
01:56:26.88
Alistair
Human lampshade. ah um Let's see now. Mattress.
01:56:40.25
Alistair
Doorknob.
01:56:41.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
you're looking around the room.
01:56:43.62
Alistair
I am. I'm trying to.
01:56:44.82
Wednesday Lee Friday
yeah
01:56:45.82
Alistair
OK.
01:56:51.40
Alistair
Can I be vulgar?
01:56:53.57
Wednesday Lee Friday
You're on my show. What do you think I'm going to say? No.
01:56:56.73
Alistair
Okay, horse...
01:56:56.72
Wednesday Lee Friday
Please watch your language for the kitties.
01:56:58.29
Alistair
Okay. Horse cock?
01:56:59.61
Wednesday Lee Friday
The goddamn kitties. Wait, what was that? Of course.
01:57:02.49
Alistair
Horse cock.
01:57:06.51
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right. Go on.
01:57:08.57
Alistair
ah Porn channel?
01:57:13.54
Wednesday Lee Friday
You know, i used to have a buddy.
01:57:13.77
Alistair
Yeah, we...
01:57:15.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
I've had, well, I still have a buddy. the that He's been on the show, actually. And every time we would play Mad Libs at my party, he would say dead hookers every single time.
01:57:23.23
Alistair
death but That's a good one.
01:57:25.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, it it is. I mean, you know, it's best if there are no sex workers present, but.
01:57:32.83
Alistair
Yeah, it's probably not very nice.
01:57:34.10
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right. So one one more one more singular noun.
01:57:37.18
Alistair
Um, Ouija board.
01:57:42.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
Alright, and now I need plural nouns. One, two, three, four of them. No, wait. Five. One, two, three, four.
01:57:50.66
Alistair
Five plural nouns.
01:57:51.71
Wednesday Lee Friday
Yeah.
01:57:51.93
Alistair
um Dead hookers.
01:57:57.21
Alistair
a
01:57:57.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
Alright.
01:57:59.71
Alistair
um
01:58:02.96
Wednesday Lee Friday
So yeah, four more.
01:58:06.23
Alistair
This is boring, but books.
01:58:10.32
Alistair
Termites. And I'm not looking around the room anymore. so Books and termites.
01:58:13.89
Wednesday Lee Friday
I hope not. Goodness. If you've got books in there, that'd be really weird. All right.
01:58:19.34
Alistair
um ah And bald men.
01:58:26.42
Wednesday Lee Friday
all right You know what I'm sorry. I need one more plural noun.
01:58:29.18
Alistair
Okay.
01:58:33.12
Alistair
Wiretaps.
01:58:36.13
Wednesday Lee Friday
All right. I need an adjective.
01:58:41.20
Alistair
Sweaty.
01:58:44.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
A number.
01:58:49.94
Alistair
76 Sexual I know right?
01:58:51.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
um Another adjective.
01:58:59.44
Wednesday Lee Friday
And another number.
01:59:05.18
Wednesday Lee Friday
Nope, I'm changing that to 69. I had to. There's no way around it. Um...
01:59:11.65
Alistair
ah Okay, okay. almost said it anyway
01:59:14.06
Wednesday Lee Friday
I kind kind of figured. I kind of figured. All right. So, so this is called sleepover shmeep over. Okay.
01:59:23.16
Alistair
Okay.
01:59:23.75
Wednesday Lee Friday
Uh, the sweaty thing about sleepover parties is that even though you're supposed to sleep over, chances are you and your dead hookers will catch fewer than 76 winks. Oh dear. Okay.
01:59:37.77
Wednesday Lee Friday
oh dear
01:59:39.08
Alistair
Yikes.
01:59:39.95
Wednesday Lee Friday
It's always the same. You promise your mom and human lampshade that you'll go to bed before 69 o'clock.
01:59:50.99
Wednesday Lee Friday
But instead, you stay up until the crack of mattress.
01:59:56.44
Alistair
god
01:59:58.16
Wednesday Lee Friday
The next thing you know, you're waking up to the smell of fried doorknob and scrambled books emanating from the horse cock.
02:00:03.65
Alistair
so
02:00:10.15
Wednesday Lee Friday
Dude!
02:00:10.71
Alistair
There it is.
02:00:12.22
Wednesday Lee Friday
After breakfast, you change out of your termites, pack your bald men, and stumble into your parents' porn channel when they will come to pick you up.
02:00:26.43
Wednesday Lee Friday
If you are like most wiretaps your age, you'll be so tired you'll want to take a sexual nap the minute you get home.
02:00:36.97
Wednesday Lee Friday
Which gets a Ouija board thinking maybe they should call them wakeovers instead. Wow, that might be one of the best libs we've had to close the show out in a while.
02:00:48.60
Alistair
a so Thank God for horse cocks and dead hookers.
02:00:51.14
Wednesday Lee Friday
So, my goodness.
02:00:56.95
Alistair
That's what made it.
02:00:57.84
Wednesday Lee Friday
Well, you know, i mean, and the Bible barely mentions them. Um...
02:01:02.72
Alistair
It's true. no
02:01:06.19
Alistair
God.
02:01:06.92
Wednesday Lee Friday
um but but But they do mention them. i'm I'm pretty sure that...
02:01:09.92
Alistair
Right.
02:01:11.52
Wednesday Lee Friday
ah Yeah, I'm going to look that up later on a discreet browser. ah
02:01:18.35
Alistair
ah Right.
An Audio version of this episode can be found here:
02:01:19.45
Wednesday Lee Friday
Dude, thank you so much for being here. i am so glad that we could do this. This was a lovely interview. And um I want to remind listeners that we'll be back ah next week.
02:01:31.23
Wednesday Lee Friday
We have new shows every Wednesday. And that if you want to support us, which, oh my God, why wouldn't you? ah The best place to do that is at our Ko-Fi. That's ko-fi slash sometimes hilarious horror because supporting the magazine is also supporting the show.
02:01:48.59
Wednesday Lee Friday
So we will see everybody next week.
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