Mentally Oddcast Transcript: Nikki Mariotti

The audio version of this episode can be found here.  

00:00:01.45

wednesdayleefriday

Hi friends, you are listening to the Mentally Oddcast brought to you by Sometimes Hilarious Horror. My name is Wednesday Leave Friday and with us today we have Nicki Mariotti. Nicki is trans fem non-binary and they've actually been involved in music almost all their life. They perform through junior high and high school.

00:00:23.39

wednesdayleefriday

in their 30s and in in their 40s. They were in a couple of different bands. ah They yeah played at the Renaissance Festival and generally in love with public performance. um They're also into motorcycling, bicycling, knitting, watercolor paints, and coloring. Wow, that is such a great variety of things. Welcome, Nikki.

00:00:45.36

Nikki Mariotti

Thank you. Thank you.

00:00:46.70

wednesdayleefriday

I'm so glad you could be here. I know it took a while to ah to get the ah the scheduling on point. And here we finally are.

00:00:56.69

Nikki Mariotti

Yes, that it is, uh, it is good to be here.

00:01:00.23

wednesdayleefriday

Thanks. So we actually like to start ah by asking guests to tell us the story of their first horror movie. So let's have it.

00:01:09.92

Nikki Mariotti

Okey dokey. It was when I was 18, I believe. in still in still.

00:01:17.07

wednesdayleefriday

Whoa, what? you Wait, you went through your entire childhood without seeing a scary movie? i What?

00:01:23.21

Nikki Mariotti

Yes. Well, I mean, unless you want to talk about Snow White, I mean, as a kid, as a little kid, like when the, when you see the Queen dressed as the old lady who looks more like a witch, that was scary.

00:01:39.18

wednesdayleefriday

Oh, yeah.

00:01:42.87

Nikki Mariotti

That was some scary shit right there.

00:01:45.03

wednesdayleefriday

Well, Disney has never really been afraid to frighten children. Like, oh, you thought you had a parent? Well, they're dead now, so, you know.

00:01:52.46

Nikki Mariotti

ah Very true. I mean, it's it's no different than the little, like all the nursery rhymes and when the bow breaks, the cradle will rock and you're like, why are we singing this to little kids?

00:02:05.39

wednesdayleefriday

Totally. I remember getting my first book of uncut Grimm's fairy tales and like everybody dies at the end. You know, Cinderella's sisters have like half of each foot. Like it's, it is grotesque.

00:02:19.60

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah, yeah. ah But the ah first horror movie that i I would classify as that was when I was 18, we went to a midnight showing of aliens.

00:02:32.94

wednesdayleefriday

Nice.

00:02:33.87

Nikki Mariotti

And that was the experience. it it was I think it was more than we bargained for as as teenagers as far as how

00:02:41.50

wednesdayleefriday

yeah

00:02:44.93

Nikki Mariotti

how scary that it it was where there's all this quiet buildup.

00:02:48.59

wednesdayleefriday

So you saw the sequel before the first one.

00:02:53.20

Nikki Mariotti

Yes, yes.

00:02:53.60

wednesdayleefriday

Huh. Okay. Cause yeah, that one, like you think you're getting an action movie and, uh, yeah, that's wow. That must have been huge.

00:03:04.89

wednesdayleefriday

So I guess we're about the same age because aliens came out, aliens came out when I was in high school because our senior drama class a year ahead of me did, uh, aliens, the musical, and it was all the songs from fiddler on the roof, but rewritten for it.

00:03:17.29

Nikki Mariotti

it

00:03:20.51

wednesdayleefriday

Cause we had just done fiddler on the roof. It was so ridiculous. So.

00:03:24.22

Nikki Mariotti

You, you just did Fiddler on the Roof.

00:03:27.13

wednesdayleefriday

in In high school we did. So in high school by like the senior class, you know, the the class play was Fiddler on the Roof.

00:03:35.12

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah.

00:03:35.20

wednesdayleefriday

And then that was also the year Aliens came out. So when the seniors did their like class performance.

00:03:38.02

Nikki Mariotti

I. ah

00:03:41.59

Nikki Mariotti

here's Here's the coincidence for you. ah the i I played guitar on that production of Fiddler in the Roof.

00:03:53.01

wednesdayleefriday

What?

00:03:54.52

Nikki Mariotti

Yes.

00:03:56.57

wednesdayleefriday

Well, there was a guy that came in to play guitar that wasn't from our school.

00:03:57.75

Nikki Mariotti

Yes,

00:04:00.82

wednesdayleefriday

I knew that.

00:04:00.82

Nikki Mariotti

yes that was me.

00:04:04.15

wednesdayleefriday

Oh,

00:04:04.75

Nikki Mariotti

Yep, that was me. And because yeah you're right, the I did, I did grow up in Royal Oak, but I actually, I went to Don Darrow.

00:04:17.45

Nikki Mariotti

So, and and yes, yes, but, but no more.

00:04:17.92

wednesdayleefriday

oh my God. So so you're my enemy now. Yeah.

00:04:23.83

Nikki Mariotti

Cause there, there, there now aren't any crosstown rivals in Royal Oak. So now there's just Royal Oak high school and Royal Oak middle school and Royal Oak middle school is what Don Darrow became and Kimball became the high school.

00:04:28.46

wednesdayleefriday

That's what I heard.

00:04:39.34

wednesdayleefriday

Weird. Well, um, that is wild. That is just wild. Cause there were so many great people in that production.

00:04:47.07

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah.

00:04:49.27

wednesdayleefriday

Like I, we try not to name drop on this show, but, uh, the guy that played laser Wolf is, uh, Timo curvy. And he actually went on to do soap operas in Finland.

00:05:00.04

Nikki Mariotti

Oh, wow.

00:05:00.14

wednesdayleefriday

And, uh, the guy that played model, the Taylor was a guy named Andre Como. And he was on the first season of MTV's the real world.

00:05:11.75

Nikki Mariotti

Cool.

00:05:12.93

wednesdayleefriday

Yeah. Yeah. My high school was just, just, uh, it's weird. Cause I don't know. Does everybody have like a person who ended up low key famous in their high school and college or whatever?

00:05:23.51

wednesdayleefriday

Cause I also went to a college with a guy who was like a huge writer now, whereas I'm a tiny writer. So.

00:05:29.08

Nikki Mariotti

Well, yeah, supposedly there's a ah story that ah Glenn Fry went to Dondero or something along those lines back in the day.

00:05:29.75

wednesdayleefriday

sure Oh, wow.

00:05:41.12

Nikki Mariotti

But I don't know. I don't know if that's become an urban legend or if it's if it's actually true. I kind of suspect

00:05:48.28

wednesdayleefriday

Well, better him than Henley. I hate Don Henley.

00:05:52.24

Nikki Mariotti

I kind of, yeah, I kind of suspect it is true, but, but in any case, you remember Mrs.

00:05:56.37

wednesdayleefriday

It seems... Uh-huh.

00:05:58.96

Nikki Mariotti

Galli. So, yeah, or, um, but she brought me over to play the guitar on that production.

00:06:11.00

wednesdayleefriday

That is so wild.

00:06:11.09

Nikki Mariotti

So, so that was really unusual.

00:06:15.12

wednesdayleefriday

Yeah, I guess so. that's wow my mind is like blown by that so um but I mean as ah as a musician you probably don't sit around watching movies the way a lot of other creatives do I've heard that about a lot of musicians that like they don't waste half their lives rewatching movies that they like is that is that true for you would you say

00:06:37.27

Nikki Mariotti

I would say yes and no. I have found that due to my, I don't know whether it's anxiety or just uncomfortable with a lot of silence, I i like to have movies or TV shows on in the background.

00:06:59.14

wednesdayleefriday

Mmhmm.

00:06:59.47

Nikki Mariotti

when I'm working and sometimes even when I'm playing ah instruments by myself, uh, just especially when I'm not really trying to perform per se, but just sitting around noodling with, with something, trying to get something under my fingers where it really doesn't matter what's going on in the background. But, but for some reason, the, I end up watching a number of movies.

00:07:30.44

Nikki Mariotti

just during the day and TV shows and such, because it just feels better.

00:07:38.89

wednesdayleefriday

Yeah. Oh, definitely. Well, there's there are psychological reasons that they say that people rewatch things, even when the things in question are like. you know, Dexter, where people are just getting murdered on a regular basis because there's a comfort in knowing what comes next.

00:07:56.05

wednesdayleefriday

Even if it's, you know, even if it's something that's like uncomfortable to watch, you are prepared for it emotionally.

00:07:56.26

Nikki Mariotti

yeah

00:08:03.23

wednesdayleefriday

It doesn't have that sideswipe that, you know, you watch a new show and like, Oh no, my character, my favorite person got killed. How awful, you know?

00:08:11.12

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah, yeah, it's it's like, yeah, it it is like that kind of comfort where I know what's going to happen and i that way I kind of have control over it.

00:08:24.36

Nikki Mariotti

And i that's, it is weirdly comforting to do that.

00:08:24.64

wednesdayleefriday

Yep.

00:08:30.16

Nikki Mariotti

i There's certain movies. that used to be, you know, sort of my go-to stuff. Like it used to be, as my wife would say, like Luke and Indy and meaning of course, Star Wars and Indiana Jones.

00:08:48.22

wednesdayleefriday

ah

00:08:48.83

Nikki Mariotti

and And like those were, those were kind of my go-to. And then, then, you know, some other movies take over and then you end up watching, you know, some,

00:09:02.54

Nikki Mariotti

some of the better, but still kind of humorous Steven Seagal movies. And they they're under siege and under siege too, or are my favorites.

00:09:07.74

wednesdayleefriday

yeah

00:09:15.28

Nikki Mariotti

But I would say guilty pleasures, but they're really, those two movies in particular have a really good cast and they're actually considerably fun.

00:09:26.60

Nikki Mariotti

Unlike the new stuff that he's making now.

00:09:30.20

wednesdayleefriday

yeah Well, you know, the the term guilty pleasure, I'm trying to get away from it. It it feels like kind of a gate keeping term. Because honestly, if you watch something and you enjoy it, I don't care if it is a cartoon shark leaping 20 feet out of the water to eat the mayor, you know, it's sometimes that happens and it's like it's about having an enjoyable experience.

00:09:55.59

wednesdayleefriday

And if that is what makes people happy, anybody who has to say, oh, you should feel guilty for that. You should feel bad if if everything you watch is an Oscar worthy, like, come on, you know.

00:10:05.72

Nikki Mariotti

ah Yeah, yeah, right, right.

00:10:07.79

wednesdayleefriday

I worked all day. I don't want to watch fucking Schindler's List, okay? I want to see something ridiculous happen and then laugh about how ridiculous it is and that's all, you know?

00:10:17.52

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah.

00:10:17.73

wednesdayleefriday

And that's, that's, I think, you know, people just have like different needs, okay? Speaking of which, now I want to talk about you for a bit because you are actually a fascinating person.

00:10:22.71

Nikki Mariotti

it

00:10:28.52

wednesdayleefriday

um and Now, when I asked you to describe yourself, you described yourself as trans femme and also non-binary. Now, as a cis person, I feel slightly confused by that.

00:10:43.78

wednesdayleefriday

Because on the one hand, your gender presentation, your sexuality is none of my business, you know, like as, ah as another human being, you don't owe anyone an explanation for that. But at the same time, like, I don't really understand what that means. And I was, I would like to. So can you help me with that?

00:11:02.42

Nikki Mariotti

Sure. I, it's really become, it's really been a long time sort of coming to terms with that because a lot of ah assigned male at birth folks, when they figure out there's something going on gender wise or sexuality wise that is not, quote, normal, they, they get a lot of, there's a lot of push to be, you know, transition all the way to being a woman because passing is, is really, really important to some people.

00:11:54.73

Nikki Mariotti

And, and I, I get that like there's, there's also a lot of comfort in like finding the right label too.

00:12:00.31

wednesdayleefriday

Mmhmm. Mmhmm. Sure.

00:12:06.48

Nikki Mariotti

So you, you're kind of, you kind of get pushed toward, there is a, there's an old meme that's going around that's kind of.

00:12:19.17

Nikki Mariotti

speaks to that where it's like, beware the trans pipeline and like 2017, he, him, 2018, he, they, then it goes to they, them, then she, they, then she, her, you know, for the next four or five years. And it's like there's this inexorable slide toward fully becoming binary again.

00:12:48.03

Nikki Mariotti

And i I don't see it like that. I see it more in the sense that I'm i am somewhere, I don't know if in between is the right word, but I just feel like I'm not really a woman. I don't feel like a typical guy, I don't feel like really any of that. And I want to, I want to like quote the good place with Janet where she says, you know, not a girl, not a girl. And, and I kind of like that as well. Like I'm not a boy and I'm i'm not a girl, but

00:13:39.69

Nikki Mariotti

what are you? Well, trans can mean not cis. So it doesn't have to be necessarily, I don't have to choose between, oh, well, I'm i'm not going to be a guy anymore, so I have to be a trans woman.

00:13:46.94

wednesdayleefriday

Mm hmm.

00:13:58.84

Nikki Mariotti

Well, no, not really. But I do like to occasionally wear more femme type clothes.

00:14:07.94

wednesdayleefriday

Mm hmm.

00:14:09.46

Nikki Mariotti

And sometimes I do, but a lot of times when it's a, when it's a problem for me, sometimes hair is a big hassle.

00:14:21.30

Nikki Mariotti

So I'm of a certain age, so I'm, I'm basically bald. So if I want to have hair, if I want to have like nice femme hair, I have to wear a wig.

00:14:32.51

Nikki Mariotti

And if I have to wear a wig, then like what happens like exercising and a wig where you're going to sweat and do all that, that's no fun at all.

00:14:43.25

wednesdayleefriday

Uh-huh.

00:14:45.41

Nikki Mariotti

Like that just, it just gets in the way.

00:14:46.37

wednesdayleefriday

Sure.

00:14:48.50

Nikki Mariotti

Or if you're in some kind of having some kind of physical fun where you're, you're not, uh, you're going to get jostled or or whatever the wig might come off.

00:14:58.37

wednesdayleefriday

Mhm.

00:15:01.83

Nikki Mariotti

And for me, like, that's a whole kind of weird to be wearing a wig and then have it come off mid, midstream. So I, I kind of opt for androgyny a lot of times, but, but out of more out of practicality than Like what I would really want to look like all the time, which would probably be a little more femme, but it's, uh, it's kind of dictated by how, how you feel that day too. Like some days or it's, it's dictated by how I want to present at work. Like if I'm not feeling really great about that, then.

00:15:54.33

Nikki Mariotti

I might not wear a skirt that day and I might just wear jeans and a t-shirt or something because because I don't want to deal with the sometimes the looks and it gets a little bit funny feeling.

00:16:11.24

wednesdayleefriday

Now, I, I really, you're kind of blowing my mind here because this is something that I had not considered. Now, obviously I'm, I'm AFAB and SIS. So if I get up and I feel like putting on jeans and a t-shirt, that's what I do.

00:16:27.79

wednesdayleefriday

If I want to go to work and wear like, I mean, there was one day, like my, my wedding dress is just sort of a blue ah Renaissance looking dress. And I was just feeling super fancy one day. So I just wore it to work.

00:16:41.80

wednesdayleefriday

um yeah

00:16:42.61

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah.

00:16:43.25

wednesdayleefriday

You know, I just, I just felt like being super fancy. So I, you know, sometimes I'll wear, or when I, back when I had a day job, I would just wear a special occasion dress to work. And the thing is that when I do that, nobody said, what do you think you're doing? Why are you wearing that here? Who are you trying to impress? Like I got zero pushback.

00:17:03.48

Nikki Mariotti

Sure.

00:17:03.57

wednesdayleefriday

And it occurs to me that if you are trans or NB, for those of you who don't know, NB is ah like a term that came out of non-binary because it sounds like N and B. um But that ah that's a luxury. Being able to wear whatever the hell I want and not be attacked for it is a luxury. And it's one that up until like this minute, I don't think I've ever really appreciated to that extent.

00:17:31.64

Nikki Mariotti

it's is its It's a really weird experience and it's partly and the whole patriarchy kind of thing, how men are more powerful and women are you know not as as worthy and you know you're supposed to be all you know dainty and all that. and and i And what that does is it makes a lot of people, I think, if you're assigned female at birth and you want to dress more

00:18:09.67

Nikki Mariotti

more mask, then like that makes sense to a lot of people because you're you're wanting to dress as the more more powerful person.

00:18:15.97

wednesdayleefriday

Mm hmm.

00:18:22.09

wednesdayleefriday

Mm hmm.

00:18:24.93

Nikki Mariotti

But when somebody who's, you know and I can't pass, i would I don't know what I would have to do to even come close, but because i'm not a I'm not a small human.

00:18:38.25

Nikki Mariotti

And I'm being, I'm about six one and fairly large. And so to pass is not really an option per se. So when I dress femme, it's, it's very, very obvious, I think to others. And the question I think ah many would ask is why would They want to do that.

00:19:07.93

Nikki Mariotti

Why would they want to dress as, you know, the weaker sex or, but and, and it just doesn't, it just doesn't make a lot of sense for a lot of people.

00:19:20.20

wednesdayleefriday

No, I think you're really right.

00:19:21.46

Nikki Mariotti

Like I don't dress because of that. i

00:19:26.23

wednesdayleefriday

I mean, the the thing is that like... You hear a lot of like, you know, the grand turf JK Rowling, um, we'll talk about trans women like stealing femininity.

00:19:29.10

Nikki Mariotti

Hmm.

00:19:36.67

wednesdayleefriday

And I've met a lot of really beautiful trans women that are much, much more attractive than I could ever hope to be.

00:19:37.80

Nikki Mariotti

ah Right.

00:19:44.51

wednesdayleefriday

I still didn't feel like they were stealing anything from me any more than any other woman who is more attractive than me. I mean, maybe you're stealing the spotlight, but you're not like, I'm not less feminine because you exist, you know?

00:19:58.61

wednesdayleefriday

So I don't really end up the whole mindset, you know, like you were saying, like, well, but if you're a man that in society, you already have a lot of power. So making yourself a woman.

00:20:11.02

wednesdayleefriday

i shouldn't be making people as... may I guess I shouldn't say making yourself a woman, but presenting as female shouldn't be upsetting people the way that... and I'm not saying it should upset people, but if you think people are stealing things, then women pretending to be men should offend a whole lot more.

00:20:29.64

wednesdayleefriday

Because if you're engaging in like Trump style locker room talk, and then it turns out, whoops, there was a woman here listening to you. Yeah, that's going to be a problem for a lot of dudes who rely on, you know, the bro code to keep up with being awful. But like, I think I remember in like the eighties and nineties, when people started being more ah vocal about being bisexual.

00:20:54.60

wednesdayleefriday

and people were mad. And one of the things that struck me about it was that there were a lot of gay people who didn't think that bisexuality existed and they were mad at the very i idea of it. And I see the same thing happening with being non-binary, that there are people that I would think would be more tolerant and understanding of those kinds of differences really not digging the whole non-binary thing and thinking people are like making it up and everybody's one or the other you know you just want attention like all these weird things where

00:21:31.56

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah, there's a there's a ton about that. it's the and And the bi thing with gay, it that is some of that is because people that are bi can exist in a apparently heterosexual relationship and not have that stigma.

00:21:59.76

wednesdayleefriday

Sure.

00:22:00.69

Nikki Mariotti

And so that people that, and I don't, and I mean, I can, I understand that, but I don't, I mean, I don't agree with it, but I can understand why that would be upsetting, but it's not, but it's not a cop out. I mean, they're not, you know, they didn't ask to,

00:22:25.94

Nikki Mariotti

They didn't ask to be bi. That's not a thing. But there is, ah speaking on the the trans folk subject, like there is ah a lot of, I've experienced gatekeeping the other way where you're supposed to be binary.

00:22:47.12

Nikki Mariotti

So you know why why don't I shave all the time?

00:22:47.33

wednesdayleefriday

Mm hmm.

00:22:51.90

Nikki Mariotti

why don't I you know do X because that'll make me look more feminine. And I i don't always and do those things, but but you can also feel that people some do look down on it. So not only as a non-binary signed male at birth person, like Not only do you get shit from normal people, but you also get some shit from the trans community occasionally.

00:23:26.46

wednesdayleefriday

Mm hmm.

00:23:27.22

Nikki Mariotti

And that's, that's really weird. And you'd think like, Hey, we're kind of all in this together. And why don't we, instead of like further dividing ourselves,

00:23:40.81

wednesdayleefriday

It makes me want to read up on like the human justification and need to judge other people because obviously everybody's trying to find their place in the universe, but it it would be better if we could do that without everything being a hierarchy of, you know, who's doing the best job and who deserves the most respect and who has the toughest time. um I also wonder though, like, how much of our relationships to other human beings have to do with probably subconscious thoughts about sex?

00:24:17.05

wednesdayleefriday

Because if you're mad about people being non-binary and you're like, well, which is it? I need to know. I need to know. Like, no, you don't because like you shouldn't be treating men and women inherently differently anyway.

00:24:29.86

wednesdayleefriday

You know, if you're the kind of person that has to flirt with every dude or every woman, then yeah being non-binary is like wow I don't know which kind of sexy I should be right now it's so confusing to me like because I mean I'm I'm kind of bi I've been madly in love with some women but I'm pretty famously married to a dude so you know I don't i I don't have to tell people that I'm bi if I don't want to no one would ask no one would assume it

00:24:51.25

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah.

00:24:59.08

wednesdayleefriday

unless I get too drunk at a party and I'm like making out with some random chick, which um let's let's pretend I've never done that. And that's hypothetical. um But but people do seem to have that sense of like, I have a right to know what's in your underwear. And you don't. You you just don't. If we're not dating, the contents of my clothing is up is my business and who I will like share it with.

00:25:26.34

Nikki Mariotti

decidedly so. Yes, yes.

00:25:27.28

wednesdayleefriday

and

00:25:28.02

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah, yeah it's it's really, I don't quite understand why that people get all up in arms about about this, because you know, there's that one, there's the one meme where it's like, hey, you know, follow me for more information than, you know, if you don't, if you don't like the idea of gay marriage, then say no when a gay person proposes to you.

00:25:53.65

wednesdayleefriday

yeah

00:25:54.79

Nikki Mariotti

Like, so that's it's not that difficult because it really doesn't affect your life.

00:25:58.90

wednesdayleefriday

Well, exactly. And then we get into this thing now where people are so desperate to judge that they use, I'm sorry to bring up this word, but they use Nazi tactics.

00:26:01.77

Nikki Mariotti

Like,

00:26:11.53

Nikki Mariotti

Mm hmm

00:26:11.66

wednesdayleefriday

Pretending people you don't like molest children is a Nazi tactic because who in their right mind is going to argue on behalf of someone once an accusation like that has been made?

00:26:23.07

wednesdayleefriday

Because some of us like you I'm sure are still old enough to remember Rick Santorum and all his Nonsense who decided that if there was gay marriage, we'd all be like marrying their pets And if people are marrying their cats, I'm pissed that I have not been invited to those weddings Okay, because what like that is insane and now

00:26:41.86

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah, that'd be be a wild affair.

00:26:45.94

wednesdayleefriday

but they're doing the same things now. It's like, don't you remember they all lied to you about gay people and you believed it. Now they're all lying to you about trans people and you believe it. Stop being so fucking stupid. It's just so like, it's so frustrating because it's like people, you know, I talked to MAGA people on the internet constantly and uh,

00:27:08.38

wednesdayleefriday

they they're just so ready to believe the most awful things and then when you say do you even know a trans person oh god no of course not like well first of all you probably do and you just aren't aware of it but also like

00:27:13.68

Nikki Mariotti

Mm hmm.

00:27:23.83

wednesdayleefriday

Really? You're making a sweeping generalization about all those people? Because I could do that with Christians and y'all wouldn't like it if I did. You would not want to be compared to like the worst stereotype someone ever made up about your demographic.

00:27:43.40

wednesdayleefriday

And i I don't understand the idea of like, I'd rather believe some nonsense that makes me feel comfortable than know what's actually happening in the world. And I mean, yeah, sure. What's happening in the world can suck sometimes, but you you kind of still got to know about it.

00:28:02.74

Nikki Mariotti

yeah Yeah, you do. ah but but but But you're right. it's ah it it's a real It's a real problem. And they they the level of control that they seem to want over how people identify what you can talk about in school, what And it's pretty ridiculous really, but, but anyway.

00:28:33.96

wednesdayleefriday

Well, they the educational stuff in particular, because when people say, well, let's put people off on a good foundation, let's give people factual information and let them make up their own minds.

00:28:34.60

Nikki Mariotti

yeah

00:28:44.71

wednesdayleefriday

There are, you know, zealots that bust in and say, well, no, you can't tell my kids that it's okay to be gay. Well, why on earth not? You know?

00:28:54.46

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah.

00:28:54.50

wednesdayleefriday

And because I don't want them to be gay. Well, wish in one hand. I mean, that's not a thing you can control. I mean, I don't think I've ever had a friend in my life who didn't at one point date someone that I did not approve of.

00:29:02.64

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah.

00:29:09.34

wednesdayleefriday

You know that' you don't get to control that for other people as much as you might want to. um I want to kind of move on a little bit and just sort of lay a mea culpa on you because when I invited you to be on this interview, I knew that you were trans and I knew that you were non-binary and that you were a creative type.

00:29:31.35

wednesdayleefriday

I had assumed that as a trans person that you would have experience with things like depression and anxiety um and you know think things of that nature. and i I think I might have jumped the gun on that because you do not have a diagnosis. Is that correct?

00:29:52.76

Nikki Mariotti

um Well, it's it's really, it's complicated. i don't i it's a It's just related to gender in the sense of like gender identity disorder. ah that would I think that's the sort of official diagnosis.

00:30:14.02

Nikki Mariotti

but ive But I have had trouble with depression and anxiety and all of that because it's it is, as you point out, when I first ah started experimenting with gender and all that, there were a lot of things that were very just very difficult.

00:30:42.31

Nikki Mariotti

and

00:30:45.16

Nikki Mariotti

I don't know. And it's been a long time. It's been about 12 years, I think, since I since i kind of knew that there was something different.

00:31:04.73

Nikki Mariotti

I don't really, I don't really, I'm not one of those people that like do when they were six years old that I was in the wrong body or or anything like that.

00:31:18.21

Nikki Mariotti

It was never, it was never like that, but also the time that I grew up wouldn't, it, it, you know,

00:31:30.34

wednesdayleefriday

Yeah, that, that would, it wouldn't have come up. No one would have ever introduced that to you.

00:31:35.03

Nikki Mariotti

No, there wouldn't there wasn't any kind of like ah terminology, or like like there is now. Yes, there was some terminology, but it was all it was all stuff that now you wouldn't want to say.

00:31:45.31

wednesdayleefriday

Right.

00:31:53.45

wednesdayleefriday

ah right

00:31:53.70

Nikki Mariotti

And you know and i I didn't really know what to do. And a lot of what I did do because I didn't know anything like I didn't prepare very well for like the after effects of it like coming out to people like why isn't it why is that so difficult well it turns out it can be it can be really difficult but I I didn't think that much of it at the time and

00:32:34.63

Nikki Mariotti

So there were some, there were some surprises in my personal life that weren't, that weren't so great, but I, yeah.

00:32:45.03

wednesdayleefriday

And I mean, we we live in ah in a progressive town. I don't know if you want me to say the town, but we live in a place where the major university that is known for being progressive. And you are well-placed in the community as a creative and as someone who is like married and employed and doing all the, you know, stereotypical adult things.

00:33:04.40

wednesdayleefriday

And yet you still get, did get pushback from people, right? And there are still things that you don't necessarily want to talk openly about.

00:33:09.52

Nikki Mariotti

Oh, yeah.

00:33:11.99

wednesdayleefriday

So what, what is that? I mean, was that a surprise? It sounds like it must've been like, what the hell? I'm in the middle of Ann Arbor and people are being dicks about this? What, what?

00:33:22.69

Nikki Mariotti

Well, yeah, it was and and really, since say I I until the until the pandemic really I lived in Royal Oak up until then, which which isn't, it's pretty, it is, it's pretty progressive.

00:33:34.81

wednesdayleefriday

But again, very progressive, upper middle class.

00:33:39.42

Nikki Mariotti

It's close to Ferndale, which is also really progressive, even more so than Royal Oak, I think. And and i I just don't, I don't know.

00:33:51.28

Nikki Mariotti

i Growing up, like when we were in high school or whatever, We didn't have a very diverse high school, like in Royal Oak.

00:34:04.16

Nikki Mariotti

And no,

00:34:04.21

wednesdayleefriday

Oh yeah, there were there were no ah no black people at Kimball when I was there, not a one.

00:34:08.92

Nikki Mariotti

there was, there was, yeah, there was not a one, I don't think at Don Darrow either. And so that was, I won't say it was a real eye-opener when I went to school, I went to Wayne State, but it, it wasn't,

00:34:27.69

Nikki Mariotti

it it was a It was a good thing because we got to meet a whole bunch of other people and and that was fine. But I don't know in the climate of Royal Oak, even there, like being trans in the like the early 90s would have really not been a great thing. And I i don't know whether, like,

00:34:56.34

Nikki Mariotti

Secretly, I knew something. I mean, these are things that you can't really know now. And I don't think, I don't think I did, but for the most of my like early life, I was mostly a rules follower. And so I wouldn't have done anything very risque or, and talking about I mean, we, we had, we had terrible conversations at the dinner table and like, and you know, making fun of this and that and like, but not knowing, not knowing any better.

00:35:41.04

Nikki Mariotti

And I think if, if you've, if you grew up in the time that I did and you aren't at least somewhat appalled by some of the things you did as a child or

00:35:55.64

wednesdayleefriday

Yeah.

00:35:56.39

Nikki Mariotti

teenager or whatever, then you're just kind of kidding yourself.

00:36:02.38

wednesdayleefriday

yeah

00:36:02.82

Nikki Mariotti

Like, and, and I, and you know, so people that aren't introspective at all, when like everything's fine, always, it's, everybody's fine.

00:36:15.98

Nikki Mariotti

It's like, it's like the dog meme with the whole room on fire, you know, it's everything's fine.

00:36:19.73

wednesdayleefriday

yeah

00:36:21.36

Nikki Mariotti

You don't have to worry about it. We're all good. We're all good. Uh,

00:36:24.79

wednesdayleefriday

I can recall having a conversation with a friend of a friend way back on LiveJournal and it was about the word gay. and and how and and why it's okay to use the word gay.

00:36:38.94

wednesdayleefriday

And what they were arguing was that the expression, that's so gay, like as a negative, should never be used because it's offensive to gay people. And what I had said at the time was that, well, hang on, because the word gay has meant a lot of different things.

00:36:55.99

Nikki Mariotti

Hmm.

00:36:56.65

wednesdayleefriday

And even if you're using it as a negative, it may or may not have anything to do with gay people.

00:36:59.27

Nikki Mariotti

Hmm. yeah and and it

00:37:03.45

wednesdayleefriday

because that I mean in the 20s gay was a good thing you were the gay girl and that meant you were out having a great time nothing to do with with lesbians but that's the thing is that like

00:37:11.05

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:37:15.27

wednesdayleefriday

ah the What the conclusion I eventually reached was, well, it doesn't really matter what's going on in someone's mind in that if you're saying something and it's hurting someone else and you know that and you keep doing it, you're a dick because it's not, you know, there's no, there's no reason to not just pick a different word.

00:37:31.83

Nikki Mariotti

yeah

00:37:37.54

Nikki Mariotti

Enter JK Rowling.

00:37:37.58

wednesdayleefriday

And we talk about that.

00:37:39.25

Nikki Mariotti

Yes.

00:37:39.38

wednesdayleefriday

Well, right. I mean, we talk about that a lot on the show, just like, well, where do you draw the line?

00:37:40.83

Nikki Mariotti

the

00:37:43.74

wednesdayleefriday

you You draw the line when you're causing pain to someone else and you know that you don't have to be. That's where the line is.

00:37:51.32

Nikki Mariotti

Right. Or when you're, you know, or the, or the usual expression about punching down and, and that, yeah, that's a bad thing.

00:37:57.22

wednesdayleefriday

Right.

00:38:00.28

Nikki Mariotti

We don't, it's

00:38:00.58

wednesdayleefriday

Yeah. it If you're hurting Elon Musk's fee fees, I'm going to get over that. But if you're, you know, talking shit about people that are already in a vulnerable demographic, like why are you doing that?

00:38:13.97

wednesdayleefriday

But also stop it.

00:38:16.12

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah, then you're just being an asshole and that's it's ah it's very true.

00:38:16.33

wednesdayleefriday

You know.

00:38:21.77

wednesdayleefriday

Now, as someone who does not want to be an asshole, if I can help it, um, I have a question for you and I'm asking you this as you and not necessarily as a representative of, of NB or trans people, but, uh,

00:38:36.72

wednesdayleefriday

I have, ah it's especially in the last 10 years, I have been accused and I'm using air quotes for that of being a trans person. And once I was mistaken for a trans person on the internet, because just recently there was a Kamala Harris, a women for Kamala Harris community. And someone had asked, you know, if that includes all women and they were like, well, no, I do, you know, blah, blah, a lot of hemming and hawing.

00:39:03.84

wednesdayleefriday

And it turned out that the women for Harris community did not want to accept trans women. And I was, you know me, not just me but like a handful of people were like well that's bullshit and then they went started a new community.

00:39:09.31

Nikki Mariotti

Ha.

00:39:16.38

wednesdayleefriday

But because of that, people assume that I was trans. You know, my name is weird, so they thought that maybe I chose it. um You know, stuff like that. um What is a non-dickish way to say, no, that's, I'm not trans. You know, I'm cis. Because I have no problem saying, like, I'm a cis chick. I don't, like, I'm not afraid of the word, like some people. But I also don't want to give the impression that I'm like, oh, ew, ah, no, of course I'm not a trans chick.

00:39:45.45

wednesdayleefriday

First of all, if I was a trans chick, I'd have to be a whole lot braver and I think I'd have to be much better at pretty girl makeup because I am not good at pretty girl makeup. Never happened.

00:39:58.25

Nikki Mariotti

yeah i you know

00:40:02.82

Nikki Mariotti

in you you could well Well, one thing you could just say is you're an ally, but the there's other there's other things about you know people calling themselves allies who who really aren't.

00:40:21.85

wednesdayleefriday

Yeah, I think the more i I think about that, the more I don't want to be a self-proclaimed ally. If someone wants to say, hey, thanks for being an ally.

00:40:29.31

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah.

00:40:31.82

wednesdayleefriday

Oh gosh, that's okay. You know, I would be very touched by that, but I don't want to tell people like, I guess, because I'm not, I'm i'm a fat chick and i'm i'm not I'm not like conventionally pretty.

00:40:35.78

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah.

00:40:44.58

wednesdayleefriday

so i'm sure that that goes into it like maca boys think they're being so like clever like oh you must be you know yeah like and i i find myself saying things like i'm sorry i don't have any dick for you fellas but uh alas you're just but i mean even that is kind of homophobic and not cool so i don't really know how to like I want to convey a lot of things like I'm sis and you're a dick for saying that and fuck you and like how do you really convey all that

00:41:15.06

Nikki Mariotti

Well, you can just, yeah, I mean, you could just, you could, I mean, you could say you're cis. I mean, I don't know what's what's really wrong with that, but you you could also say, like, you don't know what you're talking about, but um it's it's very tricky. I mean, it depends on depends on the person. Like, is it, is it ah as they say, is it is it a ah teachable moment?

00:41:43.83

wednesdayleefriday

Right.

00:41:43.88

Nikki Mariotti

Like, you know, cause if it is, then you could say, you know, I, trans people have of a really hard time and I want to stick up for them where I can.

00:41:57.63

wednesdayleefriday

Right.

00:41:57.97

Nikki Mariotti

And, and you know, something like that, rather than like, Hey, you know, you don't know, I'm not trans, like, and, and that, you know, say it in a way that is.

00:42:14.60

Nikki Mariotti

more ah like you're describing what you what you do, or I'm in this group because I want to promote awareness for that.

00:42:24.81

Nikki Mariotti

And like, if they make if they make the assumption that you're trans, I mean, what's it matter really? Like people are...

00:42:33.61

wednesdayleefriday

Well, I mean, honestly, stolen valor, man, i I would not want people to think that I have the bravery that it requires to go out and be a trans woman in this world.

00:42:44.91

wednesdayleefriday

That really sounds like I probably could now, you know, as ah as a middle-aged woman, um but

00:42:53.02

Nikki Mariotti

but

00:42:53.75

wednesdayleefriday

In my 20s? No fucking way, man. No way. I was still trying to pretend that I was going to be thin from dieting when I was in my 20s. Like, yeah, i I look fat now, but just you wait, fellas.

00:43:02.56

Nikki Mariotti

ah Well, yeah.

00:43:08.49

wednesdayleefriday

Whoops.

00:43:08.87

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah.

00:43:10.19

wednesdayleefriday

Because that's a thing. like i was I was accused of being a trans person in like a violent way once. But usually, well, no, man, I mean, i oh, no, no, I was I was on my way into the women's restroom at an IHOP and a complete stranger, like stop me, back me against the wall, put a hand on my shoulder and said, Where do you think you're going?

00:43:16.53

Nikki Mariotti

ah Okay. ah

00:43:33.21

wednesdayleefriday

and i was just like that honestly the first thought in my mind was i need to wax my upper lip and this is not cool um but yeah it was it was pretty scary and uh you know of course my husband was on that like a flash but um

00:43:35.42

Nikki Mariotti

Wow.

00:43:45.62

Nikki Mariotti

Oh

00:43:52.22

wednesdayleefriday

Yeah.

00:43:52.45

Nikki Mariotti

yeah.

00:43:52.97

wednesdayleefriday

like because and i mean it All he had to do, like he stood up. I don't even know if he knew what was going on, but like he stood up and the guy made eye contact with him.

00:44:03.09

wednesdayleefriday

and I was like, yeah, that's my husband. and and he like I really had to go to the bathroom, which is the only reason that I did not you know make like a bigger thing of it.

00:44:14.00

wednesdayleefriday

because basically I went in the bathroom and came out and the guy was gone because I was fully like I should probably press charges not because I was hurt but because that fucking guy is dangerous and he needs a wake-up call but you know and in a situation like that I wouldn't even want to say I'm cis because it doesn't matter if I'm cis or not that kind of behavior is completely unacceptable

00:44:26.01

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah, yeah, it's it's a big.

00:44:38.75

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah, yeah, that's, and I think that really. is kind of the the point in a way. like it's not whether they think you're Whether somebody comes off thinking you're trans, like that's on them.

00:44:58.16

Nikki Mariotti

like you don't have to You don't have to worry that you're you're getting like negative points. You're getting demerits and in the in the views of trans people because

00:45:09.94

wednesdayleefriday

and

00:45:13.44

Nikki Mariotti

someone thought you were trans.

00:45:16.43

wednesdayleefriday

Well, no, but I mean, it's the same.

00:45:17.36

Nikki Mariotti

I don't think that's a thing. it

00:45:20.39

wednesdayleefriday

Well, you know, I'm one of these like late in life autistic types. So I'm just now coming to terms with the fact that like, no, I'm not argumentative. I just need for people to not be full of shit.

00:45:31.08

wednesdayleefriday

And, you know, that's, that's one of those ways of like,

00:45:31.43

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah.

00:45:36.00

wednesdayleefriday

No, I'm not saying like, you're not insulting me by saying, Oh, I think you're, I mean, they they are trying to insult me. Definitely. Like when a MAGA boy says you must be trans, cause like I have pronouns in my social media profiles.

00:45:48.40

Nikki Mariotti

Oh, yeah.

00:45:48.42

wednesdayleefriday

And the reason that I have that is because trans people have told me that it, Destigmatizes that if if cis people do it, so I'm like well That's reasonable and I also have a life where like I don't have like I'm a sex writer So my boss isn't gonna unfollow me for like you know or like fire me for for you know being inclusive I'm really lucky in that way like I don't have kids so I don't have anybody that's gonna like get beat up at school because their parent is speaking out or you know and

00:45:59.16

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah. Right, right. there Yeah. Yeah.

00:46:18.80

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah, yeah.

00:46:19.81

wednesdayleefriday

Which is why I, I feel very obligated to stand up for marginalized people if I can, because I do have the privilege of being relatively risk free as far as that goes.

00:46:20.19

Nikki Mariotti

Oh, that's Yeah,

00:46:33.07

wednesdayleefriday

you know

00:46:34.90

Nikki Mariotti

yeah. and And that's really like, you could tell, you can tell people that Like because, because you're sis and you can use your privilege for something good and you're not, you're not self proclaiming as an ally, but you're telling them the stuff that you are doing, which is good. And I don't think that people,

00:47:09.30

Nikki Mariotti

I mean, if people want to argue about it, Well, then they're probably not your people anyway. um i

00:47:18.07

wednesdayleefriday

Great.

00:47:18.95

Nikki Mariotti

I'm not really, I don't get into a lot of conversations about this at work because I don't feel like it has to come about the right way, I guess is what I'm saying. Like people have to have sort of ah They can be inquisitive, but you can be but you can do it one of two ways. You can come up to somebody and say, hey, what's with the nail polish?

00:47:53.89

Nikki Mariotti

oh or Or you can come up and say, ooh. I really like that blue color you're wearing today. like and and And there's a huge, there's a chasm between those two.

00:48:02.58

wednesdayleefriday

Right.

00:48:08.56

wednesdayleefriday

Absolutely.

00:48:08.83

Nikki Mariotti

And the one is like, okay, I'm not touching this conversation, screw that. And the other, you might actually have a conversation and talk about something sensible.

00:48:22.10

Nikki Mariotti

but and And that's part of like though the labor of being ah a trans person in a sense is that everybody wants to know things.

00:48:33.96

wednesdayleefriday

Sure.

00:48:39.72

Nikki Mariotti

And they do it in various ways, some great, some terrible. and

00:48:47.38

wednesdayleefriday

Well, I mean, you see this also with with like gay folk when they come out. Now, there used to be a thing where it would coming out was considered like an event.

00:48:58.92

wednesdayleefriday

you know like it was like a ah single like okay I'm gonna come out at Thanksgiving and then the whole family's there and you're like hey everybody I'm gay and that if everyone isn't immediately celebratory it's like well why don't you accept me which like I can certainly understand that when you build it up in your mind and say all right I'm gonna reveal this huge thing about myself that I've been thinking about for months if not years and then when your family just sits there a GOG like look I just wanted some potatoes man why is this happening like I cannot like I guess the point I'm trying to make is that like yeah you you break the news to people but it's a conversation

00:49:32.69

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah.

00:49:40.80

wednesdayleefriday

Because while your parents are sitting there with their mouths hanging open, they're probably not in a state to articulate, well, I'm concerned about the challenges you're going to face in life. And that upsets me.

00:49:51.05

wednesdayleefriday

And, you know, like, it's ah it's a conversation.

00:49:52.50

Nikki Mariotti

Right.

00:49:54.53

wednesdayleefriday

It's like any relationship, you know, like, if you find out that your buddy wants to join a convent, that can be just as shocking. And it's not because you're a nonaphobe. It's because what?

00:50:06.32

wednesdayleefriday

I didn't expect that. And now I need a minute.

00:50:10.10

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah. Yeah. And I can totally, and I can totally see that. Like that's, that's a whole, that's a whole level of, you know, what you, what you assume people are going to come out and, or, you know, maybe they were getting ready to say, Hey, you know, I made a different kind of pie this year.

00:50:34.93

Nikki Mariotti

And, and, you know, and then they come out and yeah, that's, that's,

00:50:38.27

wednesdayleefriday

Wait, is is is that a lesbian joke?

00:50:41.54

Nikki Mariotti

I don't think so, but it probably could be. i mean this' the and you know i don't and don't really see how um I mean, I see how a families could be there and they could be sort of dumbfounded and and just like, oh, wow, this was unexpected.

00:51:03.23

Nikki Mariotti

but it doesn't necessarily mean they're they're all against it. just It's just odd and or unexpected.

00:51:08.09

wednesdayleefriday

right right

00:51:13.34

Nikki Mariotti

ah so maybe And that's kind of what I did wrong as well, is that like I didn't really prepare for it. And so I didn't really consider that there, this could be odd for people.

00:51:31.92

wednesdayleefriday

Right, right. Uh huh.

00:51:34.00

Nikki Mariotti

like and And so, it because it was all new to me and, you know, I

00:51:45.98

Nikki Mariotti

I decided I was, you know, I forget I was dressing as a hooker for Halloween that year or something. And, and, and cause, cause that's the, like Halloween is one of those universal things where you can, you can dress up and you can dress as whatever you want and people don't care.

00:52:02.62

Nikki Mariotti

Right.

00:52:03.40

wednesdayleefriday

Well yeah.

00:52:03.51

Nikki Mariotti

So, and, and the really astute people will notice, uh, But, but it really, it really doesn't matter if you want to go, if if you want to get out your sexy nurse costume at Halloween, then fine. Nobody's going to care. But it, it's just, it's just the other times that you can't just explain away.

00:52:34.30

wednesdayleefriday

Right.

00:52:35.23

Nikki Mariotti

and And then I don't know.

00:52:35.67

wednesdayleefriday

Right.

00:52:38.68

Nikki Mariotti

I guess I would probably do things a little bit differently, but whatever.

00:52:47.62

wednesdayleefriday

So if you had a friend who was about to come out, what would how would you advise them? How would you would help them prepare?

00:52:55.43

Nikki Mariotti

um

00:52:58.72

Nikki Mariotti

I would

00:53:03.13

Nikki Mariotti

I think I would have them go to um one of the places that ah the affirmations in Ferndale, I would probably go there and they, even and in the past, they have had groups, I don't know what their current status is, but a lot of that of that they can they can help because they have groups and I think they could help with more of like what to expect when you come out to people or even maybe

00:53:42.01

Nikki Mariotti

the best way to have a conversation around it. I, I, you know, a lot of people, of course, there's some people that like, they come out and they just like text their parents, Hey, I'm gay or Hey, I'm trans or whatever. And, and that works for them. And that's fine. But there's other people that it's it's not going to work for. Or if you know your if you know your parents are are going to disapprove a lot, then there's other things that probably you should do. I mean, I know in one case, a young

00:54:32.53

Nikki Mariotti

A young trans lady ah moved into a friend of mine's house because their parents were so, so bad about it that theyre they just they just left their own home to go somewhere else.

00:54:53.62

wednesdayleefriday

It's terrifying, especially when you hear that there are laws being passed that require like teachers or even counselors to out students to their parents.

00:55:04.55

wednesdayleefriday

If students felt safe being out ah outing themselves to their parents, it seems like most of them would, you know, if they had a safe environment to come out in.

00:55:04.72

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah.

00:55:15.63

wednesdayleefriday

people wouldn't be hiding.

00:55:16.66

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah.

00:55:17.67

wednesdayleefriday

so it's i mean To me, for somebody who grew up in a home with a lot of abuse and a lot of things being deliberately kept from people who would freak the hell out about it, that ah that it it just seems extremely ignorant and myopic

00:55:26.63

Nikki Mariotti

yeah

00:55:33.60

wednesdayleefriday

to you know it's kind of like with homeschooling and there are people that are like oh homeschooling they don't they don't need supervision well they do because that's whackadoo shit like i'm not saying homeschooling parents are whackadoos i i think i just said that so i'm going to cut that out later but it is like people that want to have the government help with those kinds of things and like, no, if my kid wants to hide something from me, I'm going to make them tell me.

00:56:01.03

wednesdayleefriday

Well, gee, I wonder why anyone would want to hide from anyone who's so obviously bug fuck.

00:56:05.46

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah.

00:56:07.40

wednesdayleefriday

But it's just, it it is so scary because a lot of these are just basic privacy issues.

00:56:08.22

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah, and it's it's huge.

00:56:16.05

Nikki Mariotti

Oh, yeah. Yeah. and and And I also like the trans kids or a big are a big part of, you know, trans and queer. Of course, queer is another one of those words, but the that queer we've we've kind of taken back.

00:56:36.49

Nikki Mariotti

And and you know so you can you can be queer as fuck and that's a good thing. like and And I certainly like to think that I am in that category.

00:56:48.59

Nikki Mariotti

But the the the other thing that's...

00:56:56.01

Nikki Mariotti

Well, what was I saying? oh ah Well, let's go on.

00:57:00.35

wednesdayleefriday

Oh, well, just generally about but about safe environments to to come out in.

00:57:00.76

Nikki Mariotti

We can cut that.

00:57:05.02

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah, the that that when trans folks, if you use their preferred name, like that in and of itself is a huge, huge mental health thing. And there are so many there are so many kids that you could you could help so much by just that. but there's also now ah ah But kids are getting a lot of the thing because everybody thinks they can you know protect their kids at school. They can protect their

00:57:37.89

Nikki Mariotti

yeah you know all that kind of stuff. but but And there's not a lot of emphasis on like people, a trans adults, what they go through, or like being being trans in the workplace. I know where where I work, it's been it's been a huge hugely a mixed bag about it. And like about using the name, about And a lot of companies are are behind the times and and they don't they don't know how to how to deal with trans people in the workplace.

00:58:21.31

wednesdayleefriday

And it's so weird, like the name thing makes so little sense to me because again, I'm a cis woman.

00:58:21.44

Nikki Mariotti

and

00:58:27.66

wednesdayleefriday

So when I married my husband, I took his last name legally. So when I went to the doctor, they started calling me by my legal last name. And when I, you know, you fill out forms and it's on there and no one second guesses you.

00:58:37.22

Nikki Mariotti

Sure.

00:58:40.10

wednesdayleefriday

No one says, well, hey, wait a minute. Why did your name change? Because everybody understands that, you know, like, oh, like no no one acts like I'm trying to pull something, you know?

00:58:46.37

Nikki Mariotti

Right. Right, right. And with and with the funny thing is, is with trans folks, it's not even generally, like, I don't know how many trans folks actually changed their last name.

00:59:01.59

wednesdayleefriday

Right.

00:59:02.21

Nikki Mariotti

Like they might, they might not. So it's generally like a first name and middle name. I mean, that's what I did when I did my legal name change last year. And, but, and I did that because of, of work actually, because there were a number of places, even though in most of the things we could use our preferred name.

00:59:28.11

Nikki Mariotti

There were a number of places where the legal name still kept cropping up on evaluations, on certain other things. and And I just finally decided that enough was enough and I i was going to change my name.

00:59:44.85

Nikki Mariotti

and so ah So I did.

00:59:45.93

wednesdayleefriday

Well, I mean, there's, there's like, sometimes people are just confused and they don't know what name to call someone, but there also seems to be a deliberate obstinance. And I'll tell you how I notice because as a kid, because my name is Wednesday, I would go through phases where I just wanted to be normal.

01:00:04.60

wednesdayleefriday

I wanted a name that did not call ridiculous attention to myself and lead to questions and stuff. So I asked people to call me Wendy.

01:00:10.62

Nikki Mariotti

Right.

01:00:12.97

wednesdayleefriday

And it was no problem. The teachers all said, yeah, that makes sense. And they did it and, you know, introduced me that way to students. My mom lost her shit when she find out found out, like, went to the school screaming at people. But, like, the bottom line was that if you ask someone, hey, I would prefer that you address me this way.

01:00:31.56

wednesdayleefriday

You know, some people are Mike and some people insist on being Michael. I have a friend named David. He does not like to be called Dave. And if you give a shit about someone and you care about their feelings, or you just don't want to be a flagrant asshole, you call people what they want to be called.

01:00:39.52

Nikki Mariotti

right

01:00:48.93

wednesdayleefriday

And if your response to, could you please address me this way, is a long list of reasons why they shouldn't have to,

01:00:49.58

Nikki Mariotti

Mm.

01:00:56.59

wednesdayleefriday

That's gross. like I'll tell you, I'm not always perfect with people's pronouns. My brain just wants to default to he or she, and it doesn't occur to me to use the singular them.

01:01:09.02

wednesdayleefriday

Even though I absolutely support that you know in practice, my brain doesn't always want to do it. and I have never in my life miss like given someone the wrong pronoun,

01:01:16.62

Nikki Mariotti

and

01:01:22.31

wednesdayleefriday

And then, you know, either I apologize or they correct me and I apologize, but no trans person or envy person has ever been like, wow, you are an asshole for doing that.

01:01:32.46

Nikki Mariotti

Right, right.

01:01:32.59

wednesdayleefriday

And I, you know, everybody gets that as long as you're trying your best, it's fine. The reverse does not always seem to be true. I find many people, and I don't want to just say, well, you're a bigot if you do this, but if you're like angry at someone else because you got their name wrong,

01:01:51.23

wednesdayleefriday

I don't I mean no that's that's not okay mm

01:01:52.84

Nikki Mariotti

that That's yeah, that's a new level of stupid. Really. I, I, I think. Yeah, I think about the name stuff a lot. It's, I like to, I like to get people's names correct.

01:02:08.53

wednesdayleefriday

-hmm

01:02:08.68

Nikki Mariotti

But on that note, you know, you'd think that as, you know, all the trans people are as correcting me about the pronouns to use and ah blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:02:22.75

Nikki Mariotti

True maybe, but we don't have a free pass on knowing people's pronouns either. So trans people misgender each other also,

01:02:39.25

Nikki Mariotti

including, and this is the wild thing, like misgender ourselves.

01:02:45.82

wednesdayleefriday

Really?

01:02:46.07

Nikki Mariotti

Because, because, you know, for, for 43 or four odd years, like I grew up socialized as a guy, you know, all of that. So occasionally not as much anymore, but refer to myself as he or like something like that. And and it's really, really, and I don't think people understand that that's even possible.

01:03:25.23

Nikki Mariotti

And ah it that that makes it that makes it weird. So like, I have a friend who uses they them, and sometimes I i fuck up their pronouns as well.

01:03:39.65

Nikki Mariotti

and but But don't we all?

01:03:40.72

wednesdayleefriday

Hater.

01:03:44.72

Nikki Mariotti

like So it's not... It's not that we've, like, like there's this, uh, sinister, like organization, trans organization that, that has defined all these pronouns for people.

01:04:00.76

Nikki Mariotti

And yet we, we fuck it up as well. So it's not sure.

01:04:08.28

wednesdayleefriday

So it's important to understand the distinction between a linguistic error and outright bigotry, because there are distinctions, like a whole bunch.

01:04:17.86

Nikki Mariotti

sure

01:04:21.28

wednesdayleefriday

So yeah, I mean, the thing is, like, because there are also times when I give someone the benefit benefit of the doubt in a conversation, and then it turns out that they are a bigot, and it's like, oh, I had so much good sarcasm ready to go, and I held it back.

01:04:22.79

Nikki Mariotti

Absolutely.

01:04:35.65

Nikki Mariotti

Yup.

01:04:36.53

wednesdayleefriday

Damn it.

01:04:36.83

Nikki Mariotti

Yup. Yeah. The other thing too is the, to consider is if you, one thing I found in our even little community out here, we There's a number of people that continue to fuck up my pronouns. Like they just, I've talked to them. I, I like, I haven't had like maybe with one or two of the people, I haven't had like a sit down alone conversation about like, Hey, you keep fucking up my pronouns and all that. But I know other people who've had that and.

01:05:20.08

Nikki Mariotti

Some of them continue to fuck them up, no matter what. So when like this same person screwed up my pronouns just yesterday, and I did nothing about it.

01:05:35.98

wednesdayleefriday

ah

01:05:37.22

Nikki Mariotti

And and the there's there's reasons though. and

01:05:42.46

wednesdayleefriday

Oh, hey, that that was not a judgment.

01:05:42.78

Nikki Mariotti

it it

01:05:44.34

wednesdayleefriday

I want to be clear.

01:05:45.12

Nikki Mariotti

it because I know, I know, but it it becomes,

01:05:45.30

wednesdayleefriday

i i

01:05:50.78

Nikki Mariotti

kind of a, it's a pain in the ass when somebody is just not gonna use the right language.

01:05:57.07

wednesdayleefriday

I'm, I'm

01:05:58.53

Nikki Mariotti

So if if we don't correct people who are screwing up our pronouns, that's for one of two reasons.

01:06:10.54

Nikki Mariotti

One, we missed it altogether. Like that's possible. Like it might not even have registered that they screwed up our pronouns.

01:06:22.82

Nikki Mariotti

Okay. But two is we don't think that you're worth correcting.

01:06:23.54

wednesdayleefriday

Okay.

01:06:33.74

wednesdayleefriday

Well, it must be exhausting to

01:06:36.42

Nikki Mariotti

It is. It is. It really is. ah And andd for me, being non-binary, there's a couple things that are really annoying that i've I have not figured out how to get around.

01:06:52.22

Nikki Mariotti

And one of them is being called Sir.

01:06:56.73

wednesdayleefriday

okay we we should as a society agree on something better like esteemed guest my my liege

01:06:57.01

Nikki Mariotti

And this whole Sir and Ma'am thing, like that's gotta go. like i

01:07:10.83

Nikki Mariotti

your Your excellency, or you yes, my liege, yes, exactly. Yes, captain, your my majesty, you know.

01:07:17.97

wednesdayleefriday

but

01:07:20.15

Nikki Mariotti

you're and But, you know, and I know, you know, it is funny. We are laughing about it. But but the number of times that I've been served, and I just, oh, thank you, sir.

01:07:37.34

Nikki Mariotti

ah just ah but and and it And it just creates.

01:07:40.92

wednesdayleefriday

Well, and its it's tough because there's not another honorific and there there needs to be, you know?

01:07:46.83

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah. Yeah. So you can't, like, I get that you can, I can be, I can be mixed biryati. That's okay. Like the, the Amex and that's fine. But, but the, the, the way that,

01:08:04.64

Nikki Mariotti

Sir and ma'am have been ingrained in like all customer service people.

01:08:11.82

wednesdayleefriday

Yep, yep.

01:08:12.84

Nikki Mariotti

like you cannot You cannot get rid of it. and that is a really difficult thing to to kind of deal with. Cause there's no good answer. Like what what do I say?

01:08:30.34

Nikki Mariotti

you know ah Because if I do that, I'm both outing myself and like maybe having a conversation with somebody that I really don't want to have this conversation with.

01:08:47.62

wednesdayleefriday

Yeah.

01:08:48.58

Nikki Mariotti

Like, ah or could be, or it might be that that person, I have a sense that they're actually okay. And we could maybe have that conversation, but probably not in a line in a store.

01:09:03.69

wednesdayleefriday

Right.

01:09:04.29

Nikki Mariotti

You know, it, yeah.

01:09:04.35

wednesdayleefriday

Right. Time and place.

01:09:06.91

Nikki Mariotti

And so that's a little tricky. That's, that's, it's a lot different. And I, I still like, say, I don't have any idea what to do about that.

01:09:19.27

wednesdayleefriday

Well, you know, there used to be that SNL character, Pat, and the the the humor in that sketch comes from people's embarrassment at not knowing how to address someone, which could have been a great conversation for, for, and, and, and trans folks.

01:09:19.58

Nikki Mariotti

Probably nothing.

01:09:23.29

Nikki Mariotti

Yep.

01:09:31.27

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah.

01:09:36.25

wednesdayleefriday

And it, it wasn't, it was just played for laughs. And then we all forgot about it, which is a shame.

01:09:40.89

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah, sure. Meet, you know, in Pat, meet my friend, Chris, like, and and like that.

01:09:45.50

wednesdayleefriday

Right.

01:09:47.75

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah. That was a whole, that was a whole level of, of NB kind of like, yeah.

01:09:54.27

wednesdayleefriday

Well, and I'll tell you, when I first moved to Ann Arbor, I was meeting a lot of people that was just like, good afternoon, ma'am. Hey, ah sport. what What's up?

01:10:04.60

Nikki Mariotti

yeah

01:10:04.65

wednesdayleefriday

You know, like, I really was not sure. Like, even if I thought I could guess someone's assigned gender at birth, doesn it necessarily follow that that's how they would want to be addressed now.

01:10:18.66

Nikki Mariotti

No, no, they, and there's a lot, and there's a lot of communities where you can, if you assume things that gets you in all sorts of trouble, really, because anything could be true.

01:10:18.77

wednesdayleefriday

You know, like,

01:10:30.72

Nikki Mariotti

Like it's, it's, yep.

01:10:31.08

wednesdayleefriday

Yep. Yep.

01:10:33.93

Nikki Mariotti

So yes.

01:10:34.26

wednesdayleefriday

So listen, I really want to talk about music before we we run out of time here, because you, I know you play guitar and also violin. um Now I tried, I started working for Shar products, which is a violin company in Ann Arbor um in like 2007, right before I got married.

01:10:54.85

wednesdayleefriday

And my initial plan was I'm going to take lessons and then at the end of a year or so, I'm going to do the store recital and it'll be silly because I'll be like, you know, playing what ah a seven year old would play.

01:11:07.14

wednesdayleefriday

Um, it turns out that a year would not get me anywhere close to what a seven year old who could play violin could play.

01:11:07.89

Nikki Mariotti

Yep.

01:11:15.54

wednesdayleefriday

And I was so bad at it.

01:11:16.06

Nikki Mariotti

yeah

01:11:16.98

wednesdayleefriday

I have no musical talent. How how long have you been playing violin? and

01:11:21.51

Nikki Mariotti

I've been playing, well, in, I've been playing violin. I started when I was six. They, but it's a, it's a kind of a weird thing because after high school,

01:11:37.21

Nikki Mariotti

I just kind of dropped the violin for almost 11, 12 years.

01:11:46.14

wednesdayleefriday

Now is that because you were made to play the violin?

01:11:46.64

Nikki Mariotti

and

01:11:50.56

Nikki Mariotti

No, it just it just became kind of a thing that I didn't want to do anymore. I mean, i there was there was parts of it that I liked, but by then, like in seventh or eighth grade, I took up electric guitar.

01:12:07.00

wednesdayleefriday

Okay.

01:12:07.43

Nikki Mariotti

And so the guitar kind of supplanted the violin.

01:12:15.58

wednesdayleefriday

Well, to a kid, that's gonna seem much, much cooler, right?

01:12:16.09

Nikki Mariotti

like

01:12:18.38

wednesdayleefriday

A guitar versus a violin?

01:12:20.58

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah, it it I mean it was, but also like um I'm also the kid who used to follow along with my dad's Nathan Bilstein recording of the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto and follow along in the music when I was young.

01:12:35.55

wednesdayleefriday

Oh wow.

01:12:39.66

Nikki Mariotti

So I yeah i did i thought violin was was pretty cool, but the the guitar was just a little more attractive at the time.

01:12:53.17

Nikki Mariotti

and And I'd played a lot in high school in the pop concert in Don Darrow and all of that and of course at your Fiddler on the Roof production.

01:13:05.95

wednesdayleefriday

yeah

01:13:06.10

Nikki Mariotti

So I i did a lot of that and I took I took some guitar lessons for a while and then around, it was kind of a turning point around in like 98, 99, I started taking classical guitar lessons and I also, around the same time for whatever reason, I wanted to start playing violin again.

01:13:30.75

wednesdayleefriday

Mm-hm.

01:13:37.50

Nikki Mariotti

And so I, so I did. And I started, I started, uh, the number of years later I started actually, cause I was in a band. That was a really funny thing. I was at a friend's housewarming party and there were, there were some other people there and they're like, Hey, we hear you, you play violin. And I'm like, well, well, yeah, but I haven't really like seriously played in years. And.

01:14:06.29

Nikki Mariotti

But they're like, well, how would you like to be in an Irish band? And and I said, well, okay, why not? so so we did So I joined the band and we were we had a lot of fun as an Irish band and then we decided eventually that we would become like a jug but jug music band, jug band music and like old time jazz and stuff like that because as an Irish band, you don't you know it's not like there's a whole bunch of places that always want Irish music.

01:14:45.59

Nikki Mariotti

i mean

01:14:45.94

wednesdayleefriday

yeah

01:14:46.65

Nikki Mariotti

lay around St. Patrick's Day. That's, you know, that was an easy thing because everybody wanted St.

01:14:48.55

wednesdayleefriday

Right.

01:14:52.59

Nikki Mariotti

Patrick's Day live music, you know, but ah so we did that for a while. And along the way, I really decided that I wanted to learn how to play violin better, become more finished.

01:15:08.23

Nikki Mariotti

And so I started taking real violin lessons. And then a few years into that, I i decided to not take classical lessons on the guitar anymore, because that's a lot to take lessons on two different instruments.

01:15:21.43

wednesdayleefriday

Oh, sure.

01:15:21.75

Nikki Mariotti

um So one of them was getting short shrift and it was the classical guitar. but um But by and by, i took I took that to work occasionally and I'd play at lunch. and And that's how I got into the Renaissance Festival because one of the people important in the Renfest worked at my place of business. And she said, hey, would you want to come out for like a weekend and and try out and play at the festival? And I'm like,

01:15:57.64

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah, sure. So I ended up doing that for about 10 years or so.

01:16:04.89

wednesdayleefriday

Wow.

01:16:06.30

Nikki Mariotti

And, uh, it's just, yeah,

01:16:07.55

wednesdayleefriday

I have a friend who does that. He like swallows sores and eats fire and stuff, and he does all the Renaissance festivals.

01:16:14.25

Nikki Mariotti

it's a, it's a big thing. And, and I didn't realize that there's like a whole group that do they like travel around the country to different Renfests and all that.

01:16:21.29

wednesdayleefriday

Yeah, yeah.

01:16:23.39

Nikki Mariotti

And that's a, that's a huge deal, but for me. with a day job and all that to give up like seven weekends in a row, I would normally only play like three weekends, four tops.

01:16:38.38

Nikki Mariotti

And that's just, it gets to be brutal. And I was always playing multiple stages.

01:16:43.72

wednesdayleefriday

I'm sure.

01:16:47.38

Nikki Mariotti

So it's like, you you go back and forth across the thing with your instruments and, you know, a few times a day and and sometimes it's hot and muggy and your fingers stick to the instrument and it's hard to play. And like, there there's a lot of there's a lot of reasons that's ah actually a really difficult gig, but ah some people just love it. So, you know, more power to them, but I've, I kind of decided that I'm going to

01:17:20.18

Nikki Mariotti

Uh, not, not do that anymore, but when I, when I retire, which will be in January, I might want to maybe not take up Renaissance festival again, but maybe some other music thing will, you know, enter into my life.

01:17:35.80

wednesdayleefriday

I would hope so.

01:17:36.23

Nikki Mariotti

so

01:17:36.88

wednesdayleefriday

I mean, once you retire, you actually have like time to do any dang thing you want. That seems like it would open up a lot of possibilities.

01:17:41.97

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah.

01:17:46.54

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah.

01:17:46.70

wednesdayleefriday

um

01:17:46.82

Nikki Mariotti

I i think so.

01:17:48.83

wednesdayleefriday

So I have kind of a tough question for you. And this is a question that we ask because it turns out that a lot of people have had this experience and they tend not to talk about it.

01:18:01.60

wednesdayleefriday

But I understand that there was a time in your life when, it like an incident, when you felt that your life was legitimately being threatened. Can you tell us about that?

01:18:12.32

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah, yeah, there's, there was a time, um, I was in a, ah we were a friend of mine and I, we were going to a party and we stopped in a, in a truck stop off of, off of 23 and we,

01:18:40.08

Nikki Mariotti

We went into this truck stop and there were a few people in there and they they were like the kind that were looking and like pointing and and laughing at me.

01:18:56.21

wednesdayleefriday

Mhm. Oh!

01:18:57.55

Nikki Mariotti

And I i was really Like, cause obviously we stopped there. I had to use the restroom and I certainly, I didn't feel comfortable really walking into any of the bathrooms when they were in, in the place of, in the, you know, a convenience store thing.

01:19:15.64

wednesdayleefriday

Right.

01:19:20.35

Nikki Mariotti

And I just, I didn't really know like how to handle that because you're, i'm I am afraid that like that that things could if I did or said the wrong thing that things could turn violent.

01:19:38.75

wednesdayleefriday

Mm hmm.

01:19:39.43

Nikki Mariotti

And and and even if somehow I was successful in fending them off or whatever, that if the cops are called, then like, you don't even know what the cops are going to be like. And I was, I was dressed, I had a wig on and makeup and all that. And it was just a, a really, a really unsettling experience and ended up that my partner just took me into the women's

01:20:15.66

Nikki Mariotti

restroom and we we decided that you know that was the best course but I think we also waited for the those other three to leave before we did that but it still felt it you know you get that sort of adrenaline reaction and you're And you're kind of wired and, and it's, it's really unsettling.

01:20:42.67

Nikki Mariotti

Um, I, you know, other, other than that kind of experience. Yeah. I mean, the people look at you and I've had some people like blatantly call attention to me, which is never fun.

01:20:58.95

Nikki Mariotti

But those times I didn't really fear for my life, but those are, it's

01:21:04.91

wednesdayleefriday

Well, you hit on something really important, which is that even if you do manage to keep yourself safe, once the cops show up, that could go any number of ways because, I mean, I, I,

01:21:20.04

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah.

01:21:23.83

wednesdayleefriday

I'm still uncomfortable with the term ACAB, but I don't have a legitimate argument against it, frankly.

01:21:32.26

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah.

01:21:32.46

wednesdayleefriday

Cops are not, are not ah by and large, worthy of the power that we give them. Let's let's say that.

01:21:39.73

Nikki Mariotti

No, yeah, i would I would venture to say that as well. And I, you know, as when I grew up, I i really, Like we all in our little like lily white suburb of Froyolo, like we all thought the cops were good.

01:21:58.25

Nikki Mariotti

Like, of course they were good.

01:21:58.25

wednesdayleefriday

Yep.

01:22:00.05

Nikki Mariotti

Like, why wouldn't they be good? But, but as I have gotten older and have had more experience with hearing about things from the the interwebs as it is and and other friends of mine that have been just really mistreated.

01:22:23.86

Nikki Mariotti

And like i I have an entirely different opinion and feelings about cops now.

01:22:32.03

wednesdayleefriday

Sure. Well, I think yeah if you're paying attention, I mean, my experience as a younger person was that I found cops to be unhelpful in situations when I had called them needing help, but i had it had never occurred to me that I should be afraid of cops.

01:22:32.65

Nikki Mariotti

And and that it's ah I think it's impossible not to.

01:22:52.34

wednesdayleefriday

You know, that a cop might hurt me and and get away like that as ah a white person, even when I was a criminal, I did not have that, that experience of like, yeah, that's my weed.

01:22:53.60

Nikki Mariotti

Right.

01:23:00.01

Nikki Mariotti

yeah

01:23:03.66

wednesdayleefriday

What are you going to do about it? You know, like I didn't, I mean, even, even when I was breaking the law and getting caught, cops were still, you know, polite and courteous to me.

01:23:05.80

Nikki Mariotti

Right, right.

01:23:13.76

wednesdayleefriday

They, they called me ma'am turn to the left, please ma'am.

01:23:15.17

Nikki Mariotti

Right, right.

01:23:18.50

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah, right.

01:23:18.76

wednesdayleefriday

So, so yeah, I, uh, I feel that that. Wow. Because I just, ah I don't know. That's that's so scary.

01:23:29.38

wednesdayleefriday

you know Because it's it basically means that like other people are living under the law, but it's it's martial law where you are because the cops may or may not take you seriously.

01:23:40.82

wednesdayleefriday

They may or may not. You know, like, I mean, women enough get like, oh, you were harassed. Well, look at what you're wearing. But if you are trans or envy, that's a whole like, well, why don't you just wear a sign that says, please give me shit for this, you know, like.

01:23:49.10

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah, right.

01:23:56.87

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah, yeah. yeah that And I think that's really, and that's really the point.

01:23:58.92

wednesdayleefriday

okay

01:24:01.64

Nikki Mariotti

Like, I mean, I i also, like when I'm dressed femme especially, I avoid, I avoid groups of guys on the sidewalk, like Like, why wouldn't I? And, and there, and that's a, that's kind of a terrible thing to live with, but you, but you do find yourself like, Oh, look, I can walk across the street and I won't encounter these people. Perfect. Let's do that. You know, and, and that's me being white and six, one and pretty large.

01:24:44.40

Nikki Mariotti

probably no one's going to screw with me, but, but I don't, I don't know that for sure. And it's like you, so it makes me think like, Oh geez, the things I have problems with, I mean, if I weren't as large and if I weren't white, the, the difference would be monumental.

01:25:07.60

wednesdayleefriday

Mm hmm.

01:25:08.06

Nikki Mariotti

And, and I, and so I have,

01:25:13.55

Nikki Mariotti

That's part of why I'm as out as I am. Because if i if I can't be out and that's why I'm completely out as trans at work, then like then what what chance do other people have?

01:25:26.97

wednesdayleefriday

Mm hmm.

01:25:28.66

Nikki Mariotti

like yeah And it's gotta be normalized somehow.

01:25:28.78

wednesdayleefriday

Yep.

01:25:34.68

Nikki Mariotti

But it's still gonna be, as as we've talked about today, i mean it's still gonna be a long road. Because there's, you know, politically, there's a lot to do.

01:25:46.39

Nikki Mariotti

ah And in the, yeah.

01:25:48.32

wednesdayleefriday

And, and some prejudice, they just remain no matter how much evidence or experience there. I mean, honestly, I was on the internet last week and I met someone who is my same age and she thinks that left-handed people were touched by the devil.

01:26:05.44

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah.

01:26:05.85

wednesdayleefriday

I mean, like that is a thing that happened.

01:26:07.52

Nikki Mariotti

yeah

01:26:09.54

wednesdayleefriday

So, so yeah.

01:26:09.63

Nikki Mariotti

That, but that's in history too. Like that was, you know, the, um, yeah.

01:26:12.16

wednesdayleefriday

Oh yeah. Well, it's not even that long ago. Like, 1980 is when they stopped trying to make kids right-handed where I live. Like, I was in Hazel Park schools then.

01:26:23.35

wednesdayleefriday

and But, yeah.

01:26:24.35

Nikki Mariotti

You know, the, uh, you know, the, the word for, uh, like a ah left, left turn in Italian, right? It's c Sinistra.

01:26:33.78

wednesdayleefriday

Well, I'm a Simpsons fan, so I know that sinister comes from the Latin word meaning left-handed. So, we we found that out when Ned opened the leftorium.

01:26:39.42

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah. So yes, I i am a huge Simpsons fan as well.

01:26:43.78

wednesdayleefriday

yeah

01:26:48.57

Nikki Mariotti

So that.

01:26:49.58

wednesdayleefriday

So do you um do you encourage people to contact you on social media? Because I'm sure everyone will find you fascinating after this interview.

01:26:56.44

Nikki Mariotti

Um, you can, uh, sure. You can find me on, on, uh, on, uh, Facebook, I guess. I mean, that if you look, look me up under Nicki Mariotti, um,

01:27:12.46

Nikki Mariotti

I have my profile fairly locked down. So if somebody wants to find me, they might have to wait for a message for a while or, or stuff.

01:27:22.76

wednesdayleefriday

Okay. Well, you have a YouTube though too, right?

01:27:24.15

Nikki Mariotti

ah I do.

01:27:25.09

wednesdayleefriday

Like a channel with all your stuff.

01:27:26.18

Nikki Mariotti

I do.

01:27:26.53

wednesdayleefriday

Okay. Cool.

01:27:27.28

Nikki Mariotti

Yes. And I, I believe I sent you the link to that one. So that will be, so somebody could

01:27:33.02

wednesdayleefriday

Yeah. Yeah. So we'll have it in the description.

01:27:35.53

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah. So somebody could, if they wanted to ask something about trans or about, uh, trans issues or like, um, changing name kind of stuff, because I did the legal name change last year, which is its own little Kafka ask procedure and weird, weird stuff about you got to get a background check.

01:27:51.82

wednesdayleefriday

Oh yeah.

01:27:58.18

Nikki Mariotti

You got to publish your name in the newspaper, you know, ah like

01:28:00.87

wednesdayleefriday

It's weird cause the same thing is true. Like if you're a woman changing your last name without getting married, like that's a whole ordeal too.

01:28:06.44

Nikki Mariotti

Right. Right. If you get married, you get it for free.

01:28:09.70

wednesdayleefriday

Yep.

01:28:10.14

Nikki Mariotti

But, but yeah, if you want to change it, and I think there's even a, um like, if you get a divorce, there's a certain window that you can change your name back.

01:28:22.37

wednesdayleefriday

Yes. Mm-hmm.

01:28:23.70

Nikki Mariotti

But then if you go beyond that window, then you're stuck with all the people like me who just wanted to change their name. So and well, the other thing, too, is I was I was planning to go for the ax on my driver's license and passport. But then it was it was kind of a big to do at the secretary of state. And I kind of forgot to ask. So and I had had a little misgivings about that, but like Anybody who wants their gender to be an X that could be used as a filter to find all the, all the weirdos or something.

01:28:58.94

wednesdayleefriday

Oh, yeah.

01:29:00.30

Nikki Mariotti

And yeah, I mean, I don't want to give them, I don't want to be like handing them the bullets really.

01:29:00.50

wednesdayleefriday

When we get even more Handmaid's Tale, you don't want to you you don't want that.

01:29:09.93

Nikki Mariotti

Like that, that's not the best plan.

01:29:13.31

wednesdayleefriday

Yeah, I mean, it's dangerous enough to have an F, but an X might. Yeah. Yeah, that's and it's a shame because obviously the goal should be a world where

01:29:19.95

Nikki Mariotti

But.

01:29:26.35

wednesdayleefriday

Everybody gets to live authentically and nobody is offended by anyone else's authenticity Well, are you uh, are you gonna give us a song to play at the end of the episode we're gonna get to hear something

01:29:33.33

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah, that would, that that would be the goal, but we're not, uh, we're not there yet. So that's, it's unfortunate, but that.

01:29:51.98

Nikki Mariotti

No, I don't, I don't, I don't think so. but I'm sorry.

01:29:54.77

wednesdayleefriday

and That's okay. Nope, that's A-okay. So i also I always want to ask our guests before the end ah before we get to the Madlib if you have any questions for me. So do you?

01:30:09.19

Nikki Mariotti

Um, yeah, yeah I, so I, um, I, I probably have lots of questions about your, uh, your high school time, but, uh, we can, we can go into that offline, I think.

01:30:24.78

wednesdayleefriday

Seriously, I spent most of it working at McDonald's, honestly.

01:30:25.32

Nikki Mariotti

Oh.

01:30:27.90

wednesdayleefriday

Um, but aside from a little drama club stuff, I was, cause I worked full-time my senior year.

01:30:28.37

Nikki Mariotti

Oh oh wow.

01:30:32.50

wednesdayleefriday

Our store got fined because I was a minor working so many hours. Yeah. But I just, I wanted to get the hell out and I needed money and it's you know, that whole thing.

01:30:37.98

Nikki Mariotti

That's.

01:30:44.36

Nikki Mariotti

Yeah, but that was a, that's a wild, it's a wild thing. I mean, I ended up, I think my senior year, I think I, I ended up clerking at a drug store, I think a little bit.

01:30:56.00

Nikki Mariotti

I think I, I worked at Romaine pharmacy and when that was there right before it went to Liberty drug right before then it became like Memphis smoke or something on the corner of Levin and Maine.

01:31:00.98

wednesdayleefriday

Okay.

01:31:05.49

wednesdayleefriday

Right, right.

01:31:12.67

Nikki Mariotti

And that was. Yeah, that's a whole thing. So,

01:31:18.19

wednesdayleefriday

Alright, well then, let us get to the Madlib. Um, it looks like yours has a bunch of adjectives in it. One, two, three, four, five adjectives. Nope, six. Nope, five. Five adjectives.

01:31:37.72

Nikki Mariotti

all right, let's see red.

01:31:44.00

Nikki Mariotti

Gigantic.

01:31:49.79

Nikki Mariotti

ah Round.

01:31:52.02

wednesdayleefriday

All right, three more round. Uh-huh.

01:32:00.12

Nikki Mariotti

Sharp. And.

01:32:17.57

Nikki Mariotti

formulaic formulaic.

01:32:22.31

wednesdayleefriday

All right, so now this one actually had two that said person in room female, so I scratched those out. So we're gonna do, now when we say two person in room, obviously there's two of us, so it's you and me. So do you wanna be first or second?

01:32:40.05

Nikki Mariotti

Oh, I can, I can be first. That'll be fine.

01:32:42.09

wednesdayleefriday

Okay, all right, and then I will be the second person. All right, so I need two nouns, please. Nope, three, three singular nouns.

01:32:57.79

Nikki Mariotti

OK. A train.

01:33:05.05

Nikki Mariotti

A speaker.

01:33:05.15

wednesdayleefriday

Okay.

01:33:08.58

Nikki Mariotti

And a lamp post.

01:33:13.43

wednesdayleefriday

I need two plural nouns.

01:33:20.57

wednesdayleefriday

Oh wait, I guess I just need one, one plural noun.

01:33:27.60

Nikki Mariotti

Trees Leg

01:33:32.31

wednesdayleefriday

All right, a part of the body.

01:33:39.76

wednesdayleefriday

And a part of the body plural.

01:33:44.17

Nikki Mariotti

Ears

01:33:47.88

wednesdayleefriday

Okay. So this is called pillow fight.

01:33:54.00

wednesdayleefriday

The last time I went to a sleepover, a red pillow fight broke out. Out of nowhere, Nikki grabbed their gigantic fluffy train and began swinging it at anyone close to them.

01:34:04.79

Nikki Mariotti

Well.

01:34:08.05

wednesdayleefriday

Soon, everyone else joined in. At one point, I got hit right in the back of my leg. See, we should have said penis. I don't know why we didn't. um As soon as I recovered, I tossed my speaker at Wednesse's ears, but I missed. Instead, I knocked over an expensive lamp post and my pillows split open. Trees flew everywhere, covering the room in a layer of round feathers.

01:34:38.33

wednesdayleefriday

The fighting stopped when we all broke out in sharp laughter. The fun ended when we realized we had to clean up the formulaic mess.

01:34:51.52

wednesdayleefriday

See? Delightful.

01:34:55.88

wednesdayleefriday

Nikki, I am so glad that you could be here and that we could do this interview. I learned a bunch and I hope everyone else finds you as fascinating as I do. ah Is there anything you want to tell listeners before I do the ending you know plug thing?

01:35:12.66

Nikki Mariotti

Oh, just, uh, you know, give your, anybody who's going through a lot of, uh, troubles with identity or whatever. One of the biggest things that we talk about is self-compassion. And it's also, of course, one of the hardest things to do because we're always so hard on ourselves, but Give yourself grace as you're trying to figure out all this stuff. It'll, it'll pay dividends later. It might not feel like it, but it'll happen eventually. So thanks for having me, Wenis.

01:35:54.50

wednesdayleefriday

Oh, right on. It was our pleasure. ah We are ah sponsored by Sometimes Hilarious Horror Magazine. We can be found on Ko-Fi slash Sometimes Hilarious Horror, um because we do have the quarterly magazine for all the funny horror stuff. And if you want to support us, that is the best way. Thanks, everybody. We'll see you next week.