Mentally Oddcast Transcript: Lyric Rivera
An audio version of this interview can be found here.
00:00:00.91
wednesdayleefriday
Hi friends, it's me, Wednesday Lee Friday, and you are listening to The Mentally Oddcast. We are brought to you by sometimes hilarious horror.
00:00:18.70
wednesdayleefriday
This week, our guest is Lyric Rivera, who is multiply neurodivergent, a self-advocate, and runs the internationally recognized Neurodivergent Rebel blog, and is the author of the bestselling business ethics book, Workplace Neurodiversity Rising.
00:00:38.04
wednesdayleefriday
ah Hi, Lyric. Thank you so much for being here.
00:00:39.42
Lyric _they_them_
Hi. Thank you for having me. I'm honored. I'm excited to have this conversation today. This will be fun.
00:00:46.58
wednesdayleefriday
Right? Right? And it was it it took a while to schedule this. It seems like the the people that I have on are at least as busy as I am. So it can be pretty tricky even remotely to schedule these interviews. So I'm so glad that you're finally here. um Before we get into like the heavy stuff, we like to start out by having our guests tell us the story of the first scary movie that you remember seeing.
00:01:12.19
Lyric _they_them_
Oh, this is a good one, but I don't, this is one that I don't know if most people would think is scary. Uh, but to me, it was really scary as a very like logical analytical child. Uh, was we saw Jurassic Park in the theater and I think I was in like elementary or preschool or something.
00:01:27.01
Lyric _they_them_
So I was like really young. Uh, and just like, because they explained like the science of how they could really do this, but I'm like, cause I'm just like, but mom, they really could do this. Like I was terrified and I had a giant like window behind my bed and just like, I, all I could think of was that T-Rex crashing through with this big teeth and the roof of that car.
00:01:36.49
wednesdayleefriday
Yay!
00:01:46.40
Lyric _they_them_
I was like, I could not sleep for, I don't know. It's a long time.
00:01:51.91
wednesdayleefriday
Yeah, I think that personally, I would not think of Jurassic Park as a horror movie, but philosophically, if children are in danger of being eaten alive, that certainly counts as horror.
00:02:04.01
Lyric _they_them_
Right?
00:02:04.02
wednesdayleefriday
I mean, but we all love Samuel L. Jackson. Nobody likes seeing that arm.
00:02:08.94
Lyric _they_them_
No. And but I love that movie. It's still like, I love the Jurassic Park movies. Don't get me wrong. There's still like some of my favorite movies, but that's the only movie that ever really scared me. Like I've seen horror. It just like doesn't, it doesn't scare me. But as a kid, Jurassic Park, that gave me nightmares.
00:02:25.37
wednesdayleefriday
Sure. Well, that that certainly makes sense. Now, I'm aware actually that you live in Texas.
00:02:31.41
Lyric _they_them_
sir
00:02:31.67
wednesdayleefriday
um And I am guessing that for someone in your demographic, that that would have a lot of challenges. How is that going for you?
00:02:40.69
Lyric _they_them_
You know, it's an adjustment period because we we were traveling the country.
00:02:41.95
wednesdayleefriday
no
00:02:46.24
Lyric _they_them_
We were very fortunate to be like full-timing and in an RV across the country for the last two years. And now like this is where we need to be for an extended period of time in our lives. And you know this is where we're from and families and things.
00:03:00.14
Lyric _they_them_
And so you know we just were brought back here for for a time period. um It's really interesting to see because like you Like there are literally like you go to the square and there are people with their um Confederate flags and preaching hate and anti-queer rhetoric like with signs like preaching to children in the streets about how bad queer people are.
00:03:21.72
Lyric _they_them_
And it's just like, wow, you didn't see this in Colorado.
00:03:26.21
wednesdayleefriday
ho Okay, groomer.
00:03:26.31
Lyric _they_them_
ah Yeah.
00:03:27.59
wednesdayleefriday
um
00:03:30.62
wednesdayleefriday
it's it I don't like to think of the country as being divided up into into regions because, you know, Ann Arbor, for example, where I am is considered very liberal.
00:03:42.11
wednesdayleefriday
There's Trump people here. It's not like there aren't because there's rich people here and where there's rich people, eventually there's going to be rich people that don't want to pay any taxes. Um, but yeah, Texas, like I had a friend of mine who wanted me to come visit him and I was afraid.
00:03:52.35
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
00:03:59.30
wednesdayleefriday
I'm like, is it, I mean, is it really safe for me to bring my husband? Uh, I mean, I'm in what JD Vance would call a two. what did he call it, a two-colored marriage?
00:04:09.34
Lyric _they_them_
Okay.
00:04:09.50
wednesdayleefriday
My husband's a black guy, so I wasn't sure necessarily, like, are are we, honestly, are we gonna be close and safe and in Texas?
00:04:11.22
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
00:04:17.91
Lyric _they_them_
Well, my partner and I are all right, but yeah, but like we, they're having places, you get looks, you know?
00:04:18.05
wednesdayleefriday
You know, I mean, stuff happens.
00:04:23.91
Lyric _they_them_
ah
00:04:24.91
wednesdayleefriday
Well, and the the scariest thing about it is that I grew up a ah white kid from a conservative, like, middle-class family. So we thought that if something was wrong, you would call the police and the police would come and help you.
00:04:38.86
Lyric _they_them_
Oh no. Yeah, no.
00:04:40.36
wednesdayleefriday
And as an adult, I've learned that that's not as universal as as I was taught that it was. And that's one of those things about Texas, especially since I watch a lot of horror movies.
00:04:53.53
wednesdayleefriday
There's a whole bunch of Texas Chainsaw Massacre movies where you you try to you you finally get to the cops and you're like, oh, yeah, I'm safe. I made it to the cops. And then it turns out that the cops are in on it.
00:05:04.98
wednesdayleefriday
So I'm sure not everything in Texas is like a chainsaw massacre, but surely some things are.
00:05:05.85
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
00:05:12.02
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah, you know, sad sad but true.
00:05:15.73
wednesdayleefriday
yeah
00:05:16.08
Lyric _they_them_
Sad but true. Oh gosh.
00:05:19.67
wednesdayleefriday
I would like to talk about the word neurodivergence because I use it in the description for this show. um Some people think that it just straight up means that someone is autistic. Other people will apply it to things like bipolar disorder, ah psychosis, ADHD, PTSD. whats ah What do you consider to be the correct definition of the term?
00:05:42.19
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah, well, like the original definition by, was it Cassian Asimasu? I mean, I probably got the name wrong, but the person who coined the term neurodivergent was intended to be anyone whose brain has any kind of like, I think they describe it as like, whether it's a little wonky or a difference in perception or a difference in how they experience the world that originates in the brain and nervous system.
00:06:05.89
Lyric _they_them_
And I'm paraphrasing because I don't know the exact wordage. But basically, you know, the way I try to think about it and also explain it to other people is a lot of times we, the conversation around neurodiversity is really led by autistic people and people who are born with neurodivergence who have been that way our whole lives. But it's not limited to autistic people and ADHDers because really it's any kind of divergence in the brain.
00:06:32.06
Lyric _they_them_
And then when you think of all the different ways human brains can diverge, ah you you know, we sometimes we're born with differences, sometimes we develop differences in our lives, you know, our our brains, um you know, through trauma is a good example, like where our brain, the way we perceive the world, our emotions and experience the world around me, or the world around us,
00:06:52.72
wednesdayleefriday
Uh oh, I hear a dog.
00:06:54.71
Lyric _they_them_
Yep. Are you gonna jump on the back to lay down?
00:06:55.11
wednesdayleefriday
if
00:06:56.35
Lyric _they_them_
I know she just can't come over here. Um, the, the, the way we experience, you know, the world around us can be majorly altered either forever or short term or, you know, it can be permanent or temporary, but but it doesn't matter how or why we have a difference in perception, what matters is honoring that perception and giving people space to you know have different experiences that we might not understand and making room for experiences we don't understand. and
00:07:29.95
Lyric _they_them_
um You know, just being curious instead of judgmental on people because we have all these differences we might, we don't even really know about, you know, from sensory things to, you know, emotional things. And you that includes like a lot of mental health diagnoses that includes some neurological things like dyspraxia and apraxia that can affect motor control because sensory motor. um So there's a lot of things. It's basically just like the divergences and the the diversity in the brain, basically.
00:07:58.45
wednesdayleefriday
Okay. So a really a catch-all term that would focus on things that you could look up in the DSM, for example, something that you could point to.
00:08:10.16
Lyric _they_them_
kind of, it's you know, outside of the average, really, you know, and, and there's all, you know, if you are, but you it's not always in the DSM, though, because, for example, like, if you're color blind, that's the way you diverge.
00:08:14.99
wednesdayleefriday
Oh yeah, that's true.
00:08:22.46
Lyric _they_them_
And I'm pretty sure that's not gonna be in the DSM.
00:08:25.62
wednesdayleefriday
okay all right so can you tell us about your diagnosis like what how old were you and was your first diagnosis accurate
00:08:36.24
Lyric _they_them_
Uh, so my guardians like were referred to get me screened for ADHD when I was in elementary school. Uh, but this was back in the nineties and they were really afraid of me being forcibly medicated with Ritalin cause that was like the big thing then. And so they fought back against having any kind of testing for learning disabilities done in school, which really i mean I get that they were trying to protect me you know because they were you afraid of what could happen if they thought I was going to get some label put on me.
00:09:07.40
Lyric _they_them_
It was their fear.
00:09:07.91
wednesdayleefriday
Right, sure.
00:09:09.32
Lyric _they_them_
But I had labels, like my labels instead, like because it was like I was treated as someone with a neuro average brain. Anytime I expressed struggles that my peers didn't have, it was seen as me not trying or me having bad behavior.
00:09:26.95
wednesdayleefriday
Yep, yep.
00:09:27.03
Lyric _they_them_
and It was treated behaviorally as something that needed to be squashed instead of supported and cared for. And so I wasn't treated with a lot of compassion and I was treated as if I was defiant and I was rebellious and I was stubborn.
00:09:38.68
Lyric _they_them_
and I was too sensitive and I complained too much and so like all of these labels were already put upon me but they were really not so nice labels and so like I believed I was just this broken failed flawed version of my peers because they were the standard by which I measured my Life to and you know that that's who I was measured against in school and when ah I couldn't do things that they found simple Like it was used as like look you must not be applying yourself and especially because like I was really skilled in reading like off the charts they couldn't even test my reading level with the elementary school tests and And because I read so well, they use that to be like, oh, this kid's really sharp.
00:10:19.57
Lyric _they_them_
They get it. They have a high vocabulary off the charts. So everything else must just mean they're not trying or they're being lazy. And so it was like, I gotcha. Oh, look, see, you can read. so That must mean you are not trying in math and everything else is just you being bad and not applying yourself because look what you can do in this one area.
00:10:34.82
Lyric _they_them_
And it was like, expected I could be an expert at everything and anything short of that was like just me choosing not to
00:10:37.51
wednesdayleefriday
Yeah.
00:10:45.38
Lyric _they_them_
succeed because I had the potential.
00:10:47.70
wednesdayleefriday
Well, and that's, that's so common. I mean, I, I definitely went through that and I didn't even understand that that was what was happening until years and years later. I mean, I was in my forties before somebody said, you know, you're probably autistic and you have ADHD, right?
00:11:02.06
wednesdayleefriday
Like, no, of course I don't know that.
00:11:02.47
Lyric _they_them_
Oh yeah!
00:11:03.93
wednesdayleefriday
Why on earth would I know that? I'm just bad.
00:11:05.69
Lyric _they_them_
And I just realized, oh yes!
00:11:07.09
wednesdayleefriday
I'm just a terrible person with no follow through. And I went, actually at one point I went through Michigan rehab services. which was about ah they, they gave me job training, which as a college graduate, I felt so defeated to have to go to this thing where they would test my motor skills to see if I could work in a factory.
00:11:30.49
wednesdayleefriday
And I had all this like, first of all, I had I was very disappointed in myself.
00:11:31.12
Lyric _they_them_
Mmhmm.
00:11:35.11
wednesdayleefriday
And I had a lot of classes hang ups about how dare you suggest that I work at a factory. That's for a different kind of person that didn't go to school like I did, like, just these douchey, like, reasons I didn't want to work in a...
00:11:47.30
wednesdayleefriday
But I mean, I work fast food. I shouldn't have to work in a factory. I paid my terrible job dues. But, but no, that is such a thing.
00:11:52.73
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
00:11:54.59
wednesdayleefriday
This idea that, like, if you're smart, you should be able to think your way past any condition that you might have. And it...
00:12:03.75
Lyric _they_them_
And it wasn't possible.
00:12:05.21
wednesdayleefriday
No, if that were possible, most of us would have done it by now.
00:12:08.61
Lyric _they_them_
And then I forgot I didn't answer about the diagnosis.
00:12:08.93
wednesdayleefriday
If I could...
00:12:10.57
Lyric _they_them_
I didn't even get there.
00:12:11.86
wednesdayleefriday
yeah ah Please, go ahead.
00:12:14.50
Lyric _they_them_
So like you know i so then like there was an opportunity for a diagnosis that didn't happen. you know It didn't happen because fear. ah But then I was only diagnosed years later when I was almost 30.
00:12:28.72
Lyric _they_them_
because I was in a job that and was treating me a lot like I was being treated in school where my needs were the problem. And so I was constantly being picked apart for things like my body language, my posture, for ah not being social enough and making friends and bonding with my colleagues appropriately and not putting enough effort into socializing and like making connections with my other employees I was working with which is wild to me and then you know like little things like typos and I was just being picked apart for things that ended up being part of my neurodivergence and I was just like internalizing so much shame and just like my mental health was falling apart and then
00:13:10.20
Lyric _they_them_
ah We moved to an office where the sensory environment was really bad for me, a lot of fluorescent lighting and busyness and chaos.
00:13:15.61
wednesdayleefriday
Ew.
00:13:16.40
Lyric _they_them_
And they started asking me to come into the office ah when I had really been only supposed to be there like once a week for half day. And then they were like, we want to hear every day because we want to see you, they want to see you working.
00:13:26.07
wednesdayleefriday
Ugh.
00:13:26.61
Lyric _they_them_
And it's like, we don't see you, we don't know what you're up to. And I'm like, that's... terrible way to do things but like so under that like new expectations increased pressure and that changed like I started to get really sick and I started wasting away and I was having like really frequent migraines like every day I was at the office and I was having seizures and other like neurological things happening and
00:13:48.45
wednesdayleefriday
Oh no!
00:13:50.27
Lyric _they_them_
My doctor was doing all these tests and we were trying diet changes and we were trying all these different things and nothing was working. A lot of things were actually making stuff worse. And she was out of ideas, really.
00:14:03.11
Lyric _they_them_
And so she's like, you know, I think maybe it's anxiety. I want to refer you to a mental health assessment. And I was kind of like, oh, you think it's all in my head? You know, I was kind of.
00:14:10.16
wednesdayleefriday
Aha!
00:14:10.95
Lyric _they_them_
freshly by that because i'd I'd heard that before when I was a kid and nothing really came over it because my family was kind of I guess maybe on mental health assignment or you know or saw a mental health ah thing like avoiding avoidant when I was growing up and so I finally was like because I remembered like there's just a little nagging because I had been reading a book about animal behavior that was written by an autistic person it was a Temple Grandin book and I was like I'd related so much to her experience
00:14:19.89
wednesdayleefriday
Mm-hmm. Hah.
00:14:39.61
Lyric _they_them_
how she described, you know, her world.
00:14:40.99
wednesdayleefriday
Duh
00:14:42.27
Lyric _they_them_
And I was like, oh, it's just like me. It's really weird. But then when I went and googled autism, I was like, I read the symptomology, you know, and I was like, Oh, no, you know, because I didn't understand and see myself that way.
00:14:48.91
wednesdayleefriday
-huh. Yep, yep.
00:14:52.54
Lyric _they_them_
And I didn't understand, like, now I understand what they're saying, by the way they say it. But I didn't know that back then as a lay person. And so I was like, Oh, no, it's not me. And so I put it away. And then I was like, Well, if I'm going to go get some, you know, mental health assessment, can I see someone who knows about autism?
00:15:07.64
Lyric _they_them_
And she's like, well, I don't think you're autistic, but sure. And she gave me a card. So I got the referral. Um, and so that's how I ended up going to see a specialist that for autism and anxiety that diagnosed me with autism and social anxiety, uh, you know, six months before my 30th birthday.
00:15:23.23
Lyric _they_them_
And it was like this boom moment that just changed how I think about myself, everyone in the world around me, because it was like, Oh,
00:15:26.15
wednesdayleefriday
Wow.
00:15:30.37
Lyric _they_them_
Wow, you know, and it was just jarring.
00:15:32.20
wednesdayleefriday
Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's like adjusting the lens, you know, in a camera that like everything, the the focus completely changes and things make more sense than they did.
00:15:35.63
Lyric _they_them_
here Yeah.
00:15:43.66
wednesdayleefriday
And that's such, I mean, you've hit on so many important things there, one of which being that a lack of awareness about neurodivergence, I mean, it it hurts everyone.
00:15:55.37
Lyric _they_them_
Mm hmm.
00:15:55.60
wednesdayleefriday
Because ah from an employer standpoint, obviously the smartest thing to do as an employer is to create an environment that lets everyone thrive. And when you're so worried about cramming people into little boxes and cubicles and making sure you can watch to see if everyone's, what why the fuck would you hire someone that you thought you had to watch the whole workday to make sure that they're working?
00:16:17.12
Lyric _they_them_
Right.
00:16:19.35
wednesdayleefriday
Like. You know, you should be a kindergarten teacher, or you shouldn't, but you know, yeah you know that's that kind of micromanagement, like nobody likes that. Even neurotypicals do not like being micromanaged in that fashion.
00:16:32.33
Lyric _they_them_
Exactly.
00:16:33.63
wednesdayleefriday
And and that's something that you focus on a lot. You ah you wrote a book about ah diversity neurodiversity in the workplace and how employers can ah create that environment.
00:16:45.72
wednesdayleefriday
So what would you like to say about that?
00:16:50.14
Lyric _they_them_
You know, a big part of it, and and this is maybe the hard part, but it's a part that actually doesn't have a dollar amount. And it's, it's key for your neurodivergent employees or any employee with a disability, but really does benefit everyone. And really all the things in in the book benefit everyone, uh, is that you need the people in your organization to have emotional safety.
00:17:18.27
Lyric _they_them_
And that is for a few reasons ah for the organizations that always want to know, how does it affect the bottom line? What's in it for me? We'll start with that um because your creativity is stifled when people don't feel safe speaking up about bold out of the box ideas because people are worried they're going to be judged.
00:17:42.06
Lyric _they_them_
They're they're less willing to be vulnerable and share ideas that you know they they think might be just too out there. you When you're in a creative field, you really want as many creative ideas as possible and people are starting diversity, equity, inclusion initiatives.
00:17:53.93
wednesdayleefriday
Yep.
00:17:55.76
Lyric _they_them_
because they know that diverse minds are good for business and that diverse perspectives are good for business. But if those members of those groups don't feel safe speaking up and sharing their opinions and they're, you know, not just, you know, because the emotional safety will help them share their ideas, also helps them speak up about their needs.
00:18:17.24
wednesdayleefriday
Okay.
00:18:18.21
Lyric _they_them_
And so, you know, with me and unfortunately this is something I see across neurodivergent communities, I had, because I was so out of touch with myself,
00:18:31.29
Lyric _they_them_
I let other people tell me what I needed against, like when I tried to speak up for my needs, people would be like, oh, you don't really need that. Let me tell you what you need. And so like, I let everybody talk me out of what I needed into like adapting what they thought was good for me based on what was good for them, which totally, you know, was like stripping me of my own autonomy. Like I basically gaslit myself for years and I didn't need things that would have made my life better. and i ran my health into the ground over and over again, burned myself out over and over again until I realized I was autistic.
00:19:00.32
wednesdayleefriday
No.
00:19:03.72
Lyric _they_them_
It was like, my needs are totally different and i I know it now and I have like the words to describe how I need to stand up for myself and how I need to like speak up for my needs.
00:19:16.83
Lyric _they_them_
Um, and so that was like a really powerful part of that. Um, and then my brain just like went off in a different direction. You want to bring me back to the question, original question.
00:19:26.85
wednesdayleefriday
Well, we're we're talking in general about why it is to an employer's benefit to create that environment.
00:19:32.27
Lyric _they_them_
Oh yeah, there we go.
00:19:32.48
wednesdayleefriday
Like the first thing that comes to my mind, I have to say is that turnover, employee turnover is very expensive. So for that reason alone, it makes sense to create an environment where people feel appreciated, where they can do their best work and where they want to stay.
00:19:40.39
Lyric _they_them_
Yes.
00:19:50.17
Lyric _they_them_
Yes.
00:19:50.33
wednesdayleefriday
but But also you had mentioned employees being able to advocate for their own needs and to feel that they're going to be heard and that their needs will be taken seriously.
00:19:57.66
Lyric _they_them_
Mm-hmm.
00:20:01.39
wednesdayleefriday
Is that, I mean, I know I've worked jobs where I have said, you know, I have, like, if I have a desk job and I say, I have carpal tunnel, they'll say, all right, we'll make a list of what you need, make a list of ergonomic supplies and we'll get it for you.
00:20:11.88
Lyric _they_them_
Mm-hmm.
00:20:15.08
wednesdayleefriday
I've had other jobs where I had to bring in a note from my doctor so that they would let me take a lunch break and in an 11 hour shift.
00:20:21.24
Lyric _they_them_
Yep.
00:20:22.26
wednesdayleefriday
You know the the variance of what employers want versus what they you know expect from I mean, it's insane So how do you manage that like within a single book? How do you address all of that?
00:20:35.71
Lyric _they_them_
And really the big part of that that addresses most of it is letting employees have control over their environment and not, and and that's the other thing is like, and this is in the book too, it's like you you were talking about why would you hire people you have to micromanage?
00:20:51.51
Lyric _they_them_
No, you need to hire people you trust.
00:20:53.76
wednesdayleefriday
Mm hmm.
00:20:54.02
Lyric _they_them_
So trust is a key part, like you have to have trust. And that so trust is earned, you know, by leadership being trustworthy and modeling like trustworthy behavior.
00:21:04.58
Lyric _they_them_
And like, also there's like, like the vulnerability is part of the trust.
00:21:08.76
wednesdayleefriday
Mm hmm.
00:21:10.42
Lyric _they_them_
You know, because you can't be vulnerable with people if you don't trust them.
00:21:13.39
wednesdayleefriday
Right.
00:21:14.96
Lyric _they_them_
So like, vulnerability and trust are really big pieces in it. And also, you know, it's with leadership that is a lot of times they're looking for how can people serve me instead of like being a servant leader, like I'm here to remove obstacles from the people I work with.
00:21:36.12
Lyric _they_them_
It's, it's a different way of leading and, you know, it's more human focused, which, you know, there are certain neurodivergent people that just don't see those social hierarchies. And so if you're like, do what I say, because I say it, like, it just, they're they don't see it that same way. Versus like, where we're building a mutual relationship where we mutually respect each other and nobody's barking orders at anybody.
00:21:58.96
Lyric _they_them_
you know we're We're coming to understanding, we're collaborating, we're working on a project. These are your tasks. you know Let's figure out a timeline. Let's figure out how we can make this work together. Let's figure out if there are any obstacles I can help remove to make this work for you. And if you're saying, hey, what are the obstacles? Well, if you're whether you're someone with a disability or not, you know not saying, Oh, I need this documentation of it. If someone's like, Oh, well, you know, if I really just had a couple days to work from home, I could work get all of this done really quickly versus spending a couple weeks at the office where all I have a lot of distractions. And it's like, I could wrap it up in two days. You know, it's like, Oh, shoot, that costs nothing. Let them work from home for two days so they can focus and work on this project. Or, you know, like a lot of times, like,
00:22:43.24
Lyric _they_them_
Even if they don't have a medical need, like if they're asking for something like we do X, it makes me more efficient at my job, especially if it doesn't cost anything. Why don't we want to empower people to do things that make it easier for them and to do their jobs more effectively? It doesn't make sense.
00:22:59.85
wednesdayleefriday
Right. You know, that's really interesting because when I was researching what you do, um what i when I went into it, i I thought that it was predominantly about awareness.
00:23:13.64
wednesdayleefriday
But I think when you bring up awareness in, in work situations, you get this mental picture of some outsider coming in and letting people know that it's not cool to be mean to people with neurodivergence.
00:23:25.86
wednesdayleefriday
And then everybody agrees, you know, like a sexual harassment seminar where they just remind people like, Hey, don't, don't touch your coworkers boobs.
00:23:28.92
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
00:23:33.47
wednesdayleefriday
That's not professional. And then everybody is like, Oh, okay. Noted. and But, but it sounds like there are a lot of very tangible and concrete, you know actionable things that both employers and employees can do once they know what those things are.
00:23:52.64
wednesdayleefriday
Because I think, I mean, MAGA people notwithstanding, I think for the most part, humans want to help each other. We want to be decent people, and but we don't always know how.
00:24:00.24
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
00:24:03.70
wednesdayleefriday
And that can be paralyzing. So I think um a book like yours is a great way to address that. Is there an audio book, by the way?
00:24:14.52
Lyric _they_them_
There is an audio book.
00:24:16.44
wednesdayleefriday
Oh, sweet.
00:24:17.71
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah, I know it's on like a good place, an easy place to get it for a lot of people is Spotify.
00:24:17.74
wednesdayleefriday
Sweet.
00:24:22.67
Lyric _they_them_
I don't know if it ever made it to Audible, but it's on, it's on a lot of places. Uh, if you go to my website, there's a link to where you can get it in different forms.
00:24:30.48
wednesdayleefriday
cool. yeah We'll have links in the description. i just I love when informational books like that are available audibly, but just because you know you can't read yeah you can't read while you're driving.
00:24:38.70
Lyric _they_them_
I read it myself.
00:24:41.81
wednesdayleefriday
That's the thing. and so you know that's That's just the perfect thing for your commute so you can listen to it and then you're at work and you're thinking about it.
00:24:45.68
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
00:24:50.33
wednesdayleefriday
and that's i just I love that concept. It makes me so happy. um but yeah you said
00:24:54.91
Lyric _they_them_
It was hard.
00:24:55.70
wednesdayleefriday
you Oh yeah, i have I tried to do one of my own novels, and I i don't... i I'm not sure that...
00:25:06.72
wednesdayleefriday
I mean, I am a pretty good reader, but for long-form pieces like that, and particularly for non-fiction, yeah, and that's that is rough, man.
00:25:12.19
Lyric _they_them_
It has to be word for word.
00:25:17.06
Lyric _they_them_
It's hard. Yeah. No paraphrasing. It was, it was so hard and it took so long, but like I wanted it to be in my voice because there's a lot of my stories in there because like you were saying, like there's so many boring trainings and boring like lessons. Like I'm ADHD or, you know, I didn't know that officially until, you know, a few years after my autism diagnosis, but.
00:25:38.27
Lyric _they_them_
I don't like when things are boring. So like I don't want the people to have a boring learning experience. So it's like the book is a lot of like lived experiences and using stories and life examples instead of just a boring textbook. But it is like a handbook and like, you know, I made it real simple and like you can skip around so that it's not restrictive. And like if people have short attentions, they can still sit down with it and get something from it. And that's just something I've tried to like,
00:26:04.68
Lyric _they_them_
do when I work with organizations too. We make it fun, I tell jokes, you know, I tell stories and there's, there's facts in there too, but it's like weaved throughout like, you know, an official like, what is it, the you know, that official framework, the hero's journey or whatever, you know.
00:26:07.00
wednesdayleefriday
four Cool, cool.
00:26:17.51
wednesdayleefriday
Yep, yep. So I would guess now I've spent a lot of time in the service industry, like ah Kamala Harris, I've worked ah for McDonald's. um I manage for Blockbuster.
00:26:29.61
wednesdayleefriday
I work the return desk at Whole Foods, which is its own special kind of nightmare. I would think that I'm not alone in this, that the service industry is an especially difficult place for people that are neurodivergent.
00:26:41.47
Lyric _they_them_
Oh yeah.
00:26:43.74
wednesdayleefriday
Do you have any specific comment about some anything that a service worker can do, ah rather than avoid the industry? Because that probably is but I mean, i I did not understand why I had such a difficult time with customer service, and it's because I talked to customers as if they were people.
00:27:04.23
Lyric _they_them_
Oh.
00:27:04.33
wednesdayleefriday
So if a situation went off the rails, I would fix the situation, but I would also explain to the customer what they could do to keep that from happening in the future. And boy, did they not like that.
00:27:14.09
Lyric _they_them_
Oh, no.
00:27:16.67
wednesdayleefriday
Because at Whole Foods, your job, aside from you know counting and giving back change and memorizing things, is kissing rich people's asses.
00:27:25.47
Lyric _they_them_
Awful.
00:27:25.59
wednesdayleefriday
And that is is not as a skill. I mean, it's not like I can't do it it. It just doesn't occur to me to say, wow, I wonder if you're so emotionally fragile that you're going to go talk to my boss if I don't smile at you.
00:27:39.78
wednesdayleefriday
Oh, you are.
00:27:40.45
Lyric _they_them_
Well, see now,
00:27:40.91
wednesdayleefriday
well how
00:27:43.17
Lyric _they_them_
Okay, sorry.
00:27:44.50
wednesdayleefriday
I just, I would encounter that so much and I didn't understand.
00:27:46.19
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
00:27:49.58
wednesdayleefriday
Like my bosses would say, you you do such a great job, but we have to talk to you about this person. This person was angry. This other person was angry. And I would just be like, well, I can't help that.
00:28:00.78
wednesdayleefriday
Maybe they should send their butler to the store. Like I just, I could not find the requisite sympathy for people that thought that I was hurting their feelings. by, you know, telling them that like not groveling because they were charged the wrong price for something.
00:28:10.84
Lyric _they_them_
yeah
00:28:17.45
wednesdayleefriday
Like, oh, that sucks. Let me fix it. Oh, you need more than that?
00:28:20.25
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
00:28:20.94
wednesdayleefriday
Well, why?
00:28:22.37
Lyric _they_them_
Well, it's funny because I handled it differently.
00:28:22.46
wednesdayleefriday
you know
00:28:25.55
Lyric _they_them_
like When I was in high school, I worked at like ah Sonic Drive-In. You had kind of like scripts for everything, so it was really easy because I just said whatever I was told to say, and that wasn't easy.
00:28:33.58
wednesdayleefriday
Yep.
00:28:36.90
Lyric _they_them_
But like now, like you know I worked before ah a couple jobs ago the job that broke me worked with a lot of corporate clients and The ones that had the most money often were the ones that treated you the worst and my employer was like well It doesn't matter they have a lot of money.
00:28:51.26
wednesdayleefriday
Oh, yeah.
00:28:54.33
Lyric _they_them_
That means they are paying a premium You mean everyone needs to be available to them and like you took a lot of abuse from these really horrible clients because they had money and I decided in my own business I have a no a-holes policy and If, you know, I do, I screen every potential new client and if they give me the wrong vibe, ah I don't take the business.
00:29:08.01
wednesdayleefriday
Oh, yeah.
00:29:15.31
Lyric _they_them_
If if if I even think you might be in a jerk, I'm like, not, it's not going to happen. Cause it's like, I decided never again.
00:29:20.39
wednesdayleefriday
you I hear, no, I get it, man. That's been one of my greatest joys. I have a little soap business. It's little. I run it out of my home.
00:29:27.74
Lyric _they_them_
Oh yeah.
00:29:29.08
wednesdayleefriday
and ah But there are people that will, I mean, the audacity is just, it's so insane about what people think they have a right to not not ask about, but to just demand.
00:29:42.08
wednesdayleefriday
you know I had someone like, we make scary soaps.
00:29:42.21
Lyric _they_them_
Oh yeah.
00:29:44.44
wednesdayleefriday
It's spooky soaps for the discerning bod and they're adorable.
00:29:45.16
Lyric _they_them_
Oh cute.
00:29:48.12
wednesdayleefriday
We have all kinds of stuff. We have some stuff that's totally custom because we had sculptors make us molds and you know, we can do a lot of things and people will call for things that we like don't offer, don't sell.
00:29:51.13
Lyric _they_them_
Aww. That's awesome.
00:30:00.35
wednesdayleefriday
Like, I don't care that you want a soap that looks like an American girl doll. I can't help you. not only that, but even if I could do that, they're like, oh, you could just get one of those dials and make yourself a mold.
00:30:12.19
wednesdayleefriday
Yeah, I could, but that would be fucking illegal. And also, why would I want that, you know?
00:30:15.85
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah. Oh yeah. That's a lot of work.
00:30:19.92
wednesdayleefriday
And it just, you know, it's, it's, uh, but I love being able to say, you know what, you are a pain in my ass and you will not continue to be so. Have a great day.
00:30:29.36
Lyric _they_them_
Yes.
00:30:30.25
wednesdayleefriday
And people think, you know, like um but I also write novels and people will contact me and say, Oh wow, your politics suck. I'm never reading one of your books again. Like, first of all, I don't believe you really read one cause you didn't say a title and you're trying to hurt my feelings.
00:30:44.70
wednesdayleefriday
So if you had read it, you tell me, but also. I don't want evil people to love my work.
00:30:52.64
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah, no.
00:30:52.78
wednesdayleefriday
I don't i don't want that. if if like There are people that if if they told me that they loved my work, I would then be suspicious of my own work. like what What was in there that resonated with you because I want to take it out?
00:31:07.42
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah, right.
00:31:10.54
wednesdayleefriday
um So in addition to ah what you do um for for businesses and you're consulting and everything, you are also a visual artist.
00:31:20.98
Lyric _they_them_
Oh, yeah.
00:31:21.97
wednesdayleefriday
I've checked out a little of your work online and it actually strikes me as a combination of expressionism and impressionism. It's really cool and I super love it.
00:31:32.77
wednesdayleefriday
ah Would you say that your work has like a central theme?
00:31:36.42
Lyric _they_them_
I don't know because it depends on what you're talking about. because i don't Are you talking about like some of the watercolor paintings? Are you talking about the stuff I've done?
00:31:41.96
wednesdayleefriday
Yes, yes.
00:31:42.96
Lyric _they_them_
Okay. I was like, because I do digital on the computer and that has a really different, very modern feel. Uh, I, it's just, I, I grew up, you know, in my grandmother's home and she was always doing art and teaching art.
00:31:56.08
Lyric _they_them_
She was like an art theater, I think, or maybe children's art theater or something like she went to school for.
00:31:58.97
wednesdayleefriday
Oh wow.
00:32:02.42
Lyric _they_them_
And so like, she just was always like teaching me to do like different little art projects when I was like really young. And it just kind of made an impression on me over the years. And then like, when we were traveling like across the country for two years in our RV, just having the watercolors and just being surrounded in nature, like nature, you know, nature, than my partner nature is one of my other great love, you know, and just like the just being able to capture it.
00:32:25.00
wednesdayleefriday
yeah
00:32:28.91
Lyric _they_them_
And I don't know, I like color and just, you know, just using more vibrant colors. And it's just like, it's just so relaxing. It's just I love it. I don't know.
00:32:39.95
wednesdayleefriday
Do you see a connection between that work and your neurodivergence?
00:32:44.82
Lyric _they_them_
probably because I'm always like, like you know autism they say we're uh they accuse us of not being able to see the forest for the trees because we're too like up close on the details of the trees but like I spend so much time just watching and pondering and observing and especially like a lot of the details like how the light bounces and reflects off of things and apparently uh my visual spatial awareness is a little different and I don't, my 3D vision isn't super good.
00:33:13.48
Lyric _they_them_
Um, so I guess the world looks a little bit more like a painting for me also that I've learned recently than it would for someone who has better 3D vision. Like I can't see 3D movies. It's kind of sucks.
00:33:24.00
Lyric _they_them_
But, um, yeah.
00:33:24.17
wednesdayleefriday
Oh, wow.
00:33:25.72
Lyric _they_them_
Um, but I know why now. Hey, I never knew why before I understood neurodivergence and started learning about myself more.
00:33:30.63
wednesdayleefriday
Wow, that that period when we were all looking at the 3D posters must have been awful for you.
00:33:35.67
Lyric _they_them_
Oh man, and I can't see those little, you know, the one thing where you stare at the art and it's supposed to pop things out at you that were real big, the seeing eye books.
00:33:40.17
wednesdayleefriday
Right, right.
00:33:42.47
Lyric _they_them_
I can't see any of that stuff.
00:33:42.58
wednesdayleefriday
Yep.
00:33:44.11
Lyric _they_them_
I was so left out as a kid because those were so popular. Yeah, but I, you know, it's because my 3d vision is like different, not, not as good. And it's gotten worse as I've gotten older, but I guess like, apparently that can make art easier because it kind of like the world kind of looks a little bit like a painting, apparently.
00:34:01.87
Lyric _they_them_
I don't know. I don't have anything to compare it with because I've never had 3d vision.
00:34:05.29
wednesdayleefriday
Right, but that would make sense though, because like if I I'm bad with visual art, I tried to make a comic, it's hilarious, but it is not visually pleasing in any sense.
00:34:07.59
Lyric _they_them_
right
00:34:16.40
wednesdayleefriday
um And I do find Like how do you, i like I can't get my hand and my eye and my brain to like work together on looking at something and then drawing what it looks like.
00:34:29.53
wednesdayleefriday
Like I don't, I guess I'm not even like seeing the lines, you know.
00:34:31.18
Lyric _they_them_
Right? Yeah.
00:34:35.59
wednesdayleefriday
like drawing, like drawing someone's face. Like it I can't even get a ah concept of like, well, why would I put a line there shading? Well, I don't, I don't see any shade. What do you even mean? Like, I don't, it just, it doesn't translate in my brain, which is kind of fortunate because the less art I can do and that I think about doing, like the the fewer mediums there are, those are the mediums that I can then enjoy without picking them apart with my mind.
00:35:04.64
wednesdayleefriday
You know, I can't watch a movie without my brain just automatically saying, wow, I wonder what the director thought of that.
00:35:04.68
Lyric _they_them_
Mmhmm.
00:35:11.24
wednesdayleefriday
I i bet that's a studio change, you know, or. When the score comes in and you pick out the score and try to think about what they're trying to convey and just, you know, it takes away from some of the, the visceralness of, of consuming, you know, and that's any art form.
00:35:27.36
wednesdayleefriday
Like I know people that are musicians, that it it impacts their ability to hear music because they hear it in math instead of in music.
00:35:34.80
Lyric _they_them_
Mmhmm. Yeah!
00:35:38.36
wednesdayleefriday
So, um, but, but speaking of art, I know a lot of people use art, you know, to as like a coping mechanism or as a way to express things that they aren't able to express verbally.
00:35:46.16
Lyric _they_them_
Mmhmm.
00:35:51.99
wednesdayleefriday
The thing about art supplies is they are expensive. Um, if you have someone that's on a really small budget, what are good ways to go about doing visual art?
00:36:03.77
Lyric _they_them_
Well, you know, some are more expensive than others. I would say watercolor is one of the cheaper ones because you paint on paper instead of canvas and you can get, you know, cheap watercolor paints, even like the kids watercolor paints aren't that terrible and they're real cheap.
00:36:19.11
Lyric _they_them_
You know, like it, it needs to be thicker, but like even you can get like a little watercolor pad at Walmart, you know, and yeah, Walmart has watercolor paper.
00:36:20.36
wednesdayleefriday
Can you paint on regular paper though I always bought vellum when I was doing watercolors.
00:36:29.25
wednesdayleefriday
Oh really.
00:36:32.46
Lyric _they_them_
you know, for budget people.
00:36:32.91
wednesdayleefriday
i I don't go to the Walmart I'm afraid.
00:36:35.77
Lyric _they_them_
i I don't like the Walmart, but you know, we're talking about people who don't have other resources and in some places it's their only resource, you know.
00:36:41.50
wednesdayleefriday
Well, yeah. Yeah. That's the thing is that like, I want to be so down on Walmart because I know they don't treat their people well, but I shop at Amazon. So it's not like that's better.
00:36:49.71
Lyric _they_them_
Exactly. Yeah, I usually do more Amazon than Walmart because I don't like to go out.
00:36:50.39
wednesdayleefriday
You know, that right. Right.
00:36:54.61
Lyric _they_them_
but you know so i was thinking like the alternative but even the same thing like i i have really cheap water i don't have the nicest watercolors i have very entry-level watercolors i have some medium quality paper it's not the fanciest of the fancy but and i have cheap brushes like i don't have nice brushes you don't need the best stuff and the other thing is like i try to remind myself like it's
00:36:55.05
wednesdayleefriday
Exactly.
00:37:19.25
Lyric _they_them_
it's about the process it's not about it being perfect and that's been hard for me because that's but that's an exercise i'm trying to do to be less of a perfectionist because like i'm trying to remind myself nothing's perfect uh and otherwise i just overwork things and then it's like no why didn't i stop you know so
00:37:28.19
wednesdayleefriday
Right, right. Well, especially in art.
00:37:35.53
wednesdayleefriday
Well, you know, it's it's interesting because um but I used to sell violins and with musical instruments, one of the things that I learned is that if you get something that is considered like mid grade or even lower mid grade,
00:37:39.87
Lyric _they_them_
oh wow
00:37:49.55
wednesdayleefriday
The average person can go a long time before they reach the limits of what that thing can do.
00:37:52.32
Lyric _they_them_
Oh, yeah.
00:37:56.04
wednesdayleefriday
You know, I mean, obviously if you're a professional painter, you're going to need something nicer than, you know, a sixth grader who's starting to dabble.
00:37:56.52
Lyric _they_them_
yeah
00:38:04.42
wednesdayleefriday
But yeah, I mean, even simple, like just basic leveling ah supplies.
00:38:05.51
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
00:38:11.22
Lyric _they_them_
Sketchbook pencil.
00:38:12.32
wednesdayleefriday
Yeah.
00:38:13.34
Lyric _they_them_
I started with the number two pencil in a sketchbook, you know, printer paper.
00:38:15.84
wednesdayleefriday
Nice. Nice. Okay, cool.
00:38:19.63
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
00:38:19.92
wednesdayleefriday
So wait, so when you're making visual art, are you listening to music? And if so, what?
00:38:25.41
Lyric _they_them_
Oh, it depends because the music is going to influence how I'm painting, I think. It'll influence, you know, because and I'm really sensitive to music.
00:38:31.48
wednesdayleefriday
Yeah, that's me too. I'm so moody.
00:38:35.19
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah. And so like music totally seeps into like my emotions. It'll make me feel different ways. so like I probably like if I'm painting a lot of nature stuff I'll probably put something really calm and soothing on you know because I don't i don't know because I'm trying like nature is calm soothing like it matches in my head it makes sense.
00:38:52.34
wednesdayleefriday
Okay.
00:38:52.38
Lyric _they_them_
um But you know if my partner is home and and we're both here then I'm listening to whatever my partner's listening to because I like all music. You know, I'm like, oh, music, I like it. So for the most part, there there are some exceptions. There are some exceptions. ah And my partner is more picky over music than I am. So I'm like, you just pick. It's just easier because then umm I'm like, as long as it's music, I like music, you know. So, you know, I don't know if there's there's anything. I think it depends. ah But like if I was going to sit down and do my watercolors, it'd probably be something really relaxing and chill and soothing.
00:39:28.25
wednesdayleefriday
Sure. That makes sense. That makes sense. Um, so I am also aware that you are, uh, gender fluid. Is that correct?
00:39:38.82
Lyric _they_them_
That is correct.
00:39:39.85
wednesdayleefriday
And, uh, another term for that. Oh, I guess and me being, and beer like non-binary is that that's different than being gender fluid.
00:39:45.60
Lyric _they_them_
It's an umbrella.
00:39:46.99
wednesdayleefriday
Right.
00:39:47.48
Lyric _they_them_
Non-binary is the larger umbrella above.
00:39:47.87
wednesdayleefriday
Um, explain it to me like I'm an idiot. How does, how does that all go?
00:39:53.44
Lyric _they_them_
Okay.
00:39:56.09
wednesdayleefriday
Assume I know nothing.
00:39:56.54
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah. Yeah, so ah so if you are non-binary, it just means you're someone who doesn't fit neatly into our two category. Hang on. Okay, she's taking the dog's collar off so she don't make noise. So non-binary is not fitting in the neat I'm a man or a woman 24-7 category. So, you know, that's people who maybe don't feel like they have any gender experience or like they feel like they're neither or.
00:40:26.57
Lyric _they_them_
or maybe people that's gender is somewhere in that continuum but might not be in a fixed place. and So that's for me, I'm gender fluid. I experience my gender where I don't ever quite feel exactly like I'm a man or a woman, but the way I experience gender from an internal standpoint does flow, ebb and flow depending on different ah situations and what I'm doing and the people I'm around and and things like that. And yeah the other thing people always assume is that gender like identity and the way you're feeling about gender is always matched or reflected on the outside. ah But that that's not true either. like Just because like my presentation might look stereotypically feminine, I have makeup on, it doesn't necessarily mean that's how I'm feeling on the inside. you know
00:41:21.65
Lyric _they_them_
people just kind of make those assumptions. But it's, ah you know, so he I don't know, like, I'm not gonna go wash my makeup off all of a sudden. If I if i if i have this, ah something shifts internally with me.
00:41:32.22
Lyric _they_them_
I'm not gonna announce, I don't usually it go like an announce, announce it to everyone. That's why I have these they them pronouns, because it's like, that way it can just be consistent for everyone around me. Because I don't really want to go announce how I'm constantly feeling inside.
00:41:45.31
Lyric _they_them_
That's kind of personal. I don't know. I don't know if a lot of people understand it.
00:41:47.44
wednesdayleefriday
Yeah.
00:41:48.79
Lyric _they_them_
Like, genderfluid people, they quit it.
00:41:49.49
wednesdayleefriday
it And I think the thing is that so much of how we relate to each other as humans is like there is a sexual undercurrent and there is a sense of um presumption.
00:42:05.47
wednesdayleefriday
You know, we presume that if someone looks a certain way that this is their gender and this is the gender that they fall in love with and that we you know, that there are norms and there are, you know, certainly commonalities with these things. A lot of people are, this, you know, a lot of people are, are gendered and, and cis and, and straight or whatever, but obviously not everyone is. And the more we talk about it, the more we find out that, no, not everyone is. So I certainly understand that, uh, when you're talking about like trans people,
00:42:40.95
wednesdayleefriday
that there's more to gender than what's on the surface and what is physically happening. um Is that also true with being gender fluid?
00:42:52.03
wednesdayleefriday
Are there chromosomal or or hormonal ah aspects to that? Or is it purely ah mental and emotional?
00:43:01.10
Lyric _they_them_
i don't know i think you'd have to ask I think we'd have to ask a scientist that question and I don't think I'm qualified to answer that one, you know.
00:43:01.25
wednesdayleefriday
or do Or do we not know? We might not know.
00:43:06.57
wednesdayleefriday
yeah Yeah, I mean, because I know that that is a question that's out there and I do not know the answer, um but it's, I think, well, one of the things that I hear from people, because i I talk to haters, I can't help myself.
00:43:14.60
Lyric _they_them_
I know autistic people are more likely to be trans or gender non-conforming.
00:43:24.68
wednesdayleefriday
I go on the internet and I converse with these haters and just, you know, 20 different ways of saying, hey, what the fuck are you talking about? And just try to get at what these people think.
00:43:36.04
wednesdayleefriday
And a lot of people, do say that things pretty like with trans people in general even just being like gay or bisexual that's that can be a goal a landmine for people just saying I'm bi like oh no one can be bi nobody likes both like well yeah I promise you they do ah but oh for heaven's sake
00:43:52.43
Lyric _they_them_
Hmm, I've heard that. I've had a lesbian tell me that once. Like, really? Yeah. She was my boss.
00:44:02.51
wednesdayleefriday
Oh no, no. See, and that, I mean, and that is another, that's a stereotype that I fall into.
00:44:05.16
Lyric _they_them_
Years ago.
00:44:09.38
wednesdayleefriday
I think that if someone is in a demographic that you need to be liberal to appreciate, that they need to be liberal too. You know, like, why would you choose to identify with ah haters?
00:44:21.83
wednesdayleefriday
But I don't, I mean, you know, one of life's great mysteries, I guess. But, but how do you respond to someone who says that being gender fluid or envy even is like made up, that it's, uh, that it's like, and I don't want to use the word weird because that's another hot button word right now.
00:44:42.56
wednesdayleefriday
But I mean, that I guess where I come from on that is, I mean, everything is made up, you know? I mean, if you say, oh, I fell in love with someone, nobody says, oh yeah, prove it.
00:44:53.71
wednesdayleefriday
Show us the evidence, you know?
00:44:53.81
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah, well it's kind of funny because if you want to talk about made up and then look at like history, like if you really want to look at history. And how people experienced and expressed gender before Christian colonization and white supremacy came and like started saying, oh, you need to fit into this binary. Like we had indigenous cultures all over the world that were identifying outside of just these strict binary gender labels that we have now.
00:45:28.20
Lyric _they_them_
So, like technically, if you really want to get technical, the newer concept is the two binary system. And even looking in nature, we see that...
00:45:40.41
Lyric _they_them_
She just crawled into my table.
00:45:43.76
wednesdayleefriday
Yeah, yeah that that's totally that's totally coming through.
00:45:45.64
Lyric _they_them_
ah ah yeah okay So, like looking at even like in nature, when we see like animals like even sex isn't binary like we have animals that literally can like change gender like people sex isn't even binary in people so like why would gender be binary it doesn't even logically make sense okay oh
00:46:10.47
wednesdayleefriday
Oh my God, you said animals, so I have to bring up my pets. Um, I keep a tank of morning geckos and, uh, morning geckos are so dope.
00:46:17.49
Lyric _they_them_
that's so cool
00:46:21.32
wednesdayleefriday
And I did so much research cause I, I came to a point in apartment living where I cannot have a cat anymore. Uh, you win JD Vance. Um, I don't have a cat anymore and I wanted to, keep I needed to keep something that stays in a cage.
00:46:34.60
wednesdayleefriday
And I did all this research on all these different animals and I decided I wanted lizards and I wanted them to do all the cool lizard things. Like I wanted them to regenerate their tails if they had to drop them, for example.
00:46:42.67
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
00:46:46.35
wednesdayleefriday
I wanted something that would live a long time, that would eat bugs, but that I didn't have to, like it wouldn't get so big that I had to start feeding it mice and stuff like that. So I did all this research.
00:46:56.45
Lyric _they_them_
Nice.
00:46:58.38
wednesdayleefriday
It turns out that morning geckos as a species are 99% female. There are occasionally males. I know people that have been working with them for 20 years that have never seen a male.
00:47:10.04
Lyric _they_them_
wow
00:47:10.12
wednesdayleefriday
So they're exceedingly rare rare. And when they do exist, they're sterile.
00:47:15.21
Lyric _they_them_
Huh.
00:47:15.28
wednesdayleefriday
And what actually happens with morning geckos is they have what scientists call pseudocopulation. So it is lesbian sex. And afterwards, they're both stimulated to become gravid.
00:47:27.47
wednesdayleefriday
So both of the females will have two eggs each usually.
00:47:33.13
Lyric _they_them_
Oh, that's awesome.
00:47:33.41
wednesdayleefriday
after the pseudo copulation. Yeah. And then like, and it is.
00:47:36.53
Lyric _they_them_
Haha, that's great!
00:47:38.51
wednesdayleefriday
And so I started with like five of them a about a year and a half ago. And I think I've got probably a dozen now. They are prolific. It's crazy.
00:47:49.12
wednesdayleefriday
And they're just clones.
00:47:49.95
Lyric _they_them_
That's awesome.
00:47:50.37
wednesdayleefriday
They're just clones of themselves. Cause when I first got them, I gave them all famous lesbian names. I'm like, Oh, look, it's Kristen Stewart. And this one is Joan Jett. And I just went like through all the,
00:48:01.30
wednesdayleefriday
But, but now I have a bunch of clones and I can't tell them apart.
00:48:03.76
Lyric _they_them_
That is epic though.
00:48:04.10
wednesdayleefriday
So, so now they're all Joan Jett. They're all Joan Jett.
00:48:10.78
Lyric _they_them_
see like there's like there's there's things in nature like we don't even like if we must be looking at we don't understand ah oh yeah i yeah exactly see terrifying
00:48:19.36
wednesdayleefriday
Well, and Jurassic Park, I mean. but
00:48:26.25
wednesdayleefriday
Right? so So let me ask you this. Now being non-binary, does that impact you when you are trying to get medical or mental health treatment? Especially in Texas? Like, did did that go okay for you?
00:48:39.95
Lyric _they_them_
I'm just going to go and pretend I'm whatever they think I am. I'm going to pretend to be a woman and take the she her. It's just simpler because I don't know if I like, I don't even have a good medical provider. I trust right now. Honestly, I don't have like a provider here at this moment. But like, if I go, like when I've needed to go in for things here and there, uh, I'm going to play the role and be careful because I don't know if it's going to impact my care or.
00:49:07.56
Lyric _they_them_
you know, the way I'm treated. I i might not even mention, i'm I probably won't even mention I'm autistic.
00:49:13.13
wednesdayleefriday
Wow, that sucks.
00:49:13.53
Lyric _they_them_
Because a lot of doctors don't even know what that is. Like they don't understand. Like my GP that referred me for my autism assessment was like, I don't think you're autistic as she refers me for the assessment.
00:49:24.91
wednesdayleefriday
Wow.
00:49:27.56
wednesdayleefriday
That's, that's just so frustrating to hear. It's just so frustrating.
00:49:31.80
Lyric _they_them_
Well, you know, plus we got our healthcare care system here as well.
00:49:31.98
wednesdayleefriday
Um, ah well, yeah, I, I hear that. I mean, I got like super sick in 2022. I got COVID and it like knocked my heart out of whack.
00:49:43.10
wednesdayleefriday
Yeah. And then I stopped eating. And so this went on for months. I like wasn't like the, the respiratory part of COVID went away, but then I like wasn't getting better and wasn't getting better.
00:49:46.37
Lyric _they_them_
Oh no.
00:49:52.78
wednesdayleefriday
And my husband and I would have these arguments and he'd be following me around with food and telling me like, no, all you've had to eat today was a glass of juice, but I couldn't keep anything down. Like my, you know, like all these things were happening.
00:50:01.96
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
00:50:05.24
wednesdayleefriday
And, uh, I was in the hospital for 17 days. And we fought like the worst the worst argument my husband and I have had ever had went on for a day and a half because he wanted to call the ambulance and I was depressed and suicidal and I did not see the point in spending the money or trying or anything like that.
00:50:10.21
Lyric _they_them_
Wow.
00:50:24.30
wednesdayleefriday
And let me just say that is a horrible thing to put your spouse through telling your spouse that you don't want to live and you don't see the point in trying to stay alive.
00:50:25.13
Lyric _they_them_
ah Oh yeah.
00:50:34.31
wednesdayleefriday
Like I sure wish I could take that back more than any other thing in life because man, did he not deserve it. But after all of that, like, and I went to the, you know, I was there 17 days.
00:50:45.89
wednesdayleefriday
I came home. There was like rehab afterwards. I had physical therapy and all this stuff. The bill that I got was $149,000 not counting the ambulance.
00:51:00.16
wednesdayleefriday
I have not made that much money in my entire life.
00:51:00.52
Lyric _they_them_
yeah Yeah, that's why I potentially broke my arm at the beginning of a month ago and didn't go get an x-ray because I'm like, it doesn't matter.
00:51:03.40
wednesdayleefriday
Okay.
00:51:11.77
Lyric _they_them_
I don't want to know because I can't afford whatever the treatment is.
00:51:15.37
wednesdayleefriday
Well, yeah. Yeah. and And the thing is we ended up, because we're poor people, but we live in a rich place, a private charity helped us. So basically we had the biggest financial windfall of our entire life being helped by this charity.
00:51:24.29
Lyric _they_them_
Oh, wow.
00:51:31.36
wednesdayleefriday
And all it did was not ruin us. You know, cause normally if someone says, Hey, we'd like to give you $149,000, like we could buy a house with that much money.
00:51:41.95
Lyric _they_them_
That's life change of money. Yeah.
00:51:43.17
wednesdayleefriday
you know And yeah, and and all we got to do was like not drown in debt for the rest of our lives. I, like many people, I'm sure you feel me on this, but for fuck's sake, if not having something can kill you, it should be illegal to make a profit from it.
00:51:55.46
Lyric _they_them_
Uh-huh.
00:51:59.71
wednesdayleefriday
That's very simple. you know Healthy food, water, healthcare, people die without it.
00:52:02.01
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
00:52:06.67
wednesdayleefriday
And we know people die. I'm sure you remember there was a kid maybe two two Two thanksgivings ago, a kid lost his job and he made a GoFundMe to pay for his insulin.
00:52:19.14
wednesdayleefriday
And he said, if I can just make it to Christmas, now I'll have more money and and I'll be set for a while. And he didn't get it. And he died.
00:52:26.96
Lyric _they_them_
ah
00:52:28.49
wednesdayleefriday
and Like, that should have infuriated a nation, not because it's so rare and awful and he slipped through the cracks, but because it's exceedingly common.
00:52:40.45
wednesdayleefriday
ah This is not true of Patreon, but on GoFundMe, the majority of what people are trying to get funded who are Americans is their healthcare.
00:52:49.00
Lyric _they_them_
customer Yeah.
00:52:49.89
wednesdayleefriday
I would like to live through cancer. Would anyone like to help me? and Yeah, people who aren't Elon Musk, my God, if I could go to GoFundMe and just give everyone money, like, that is my dream.
00:53:02.45
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
00:53:03.10
wednesdayleefriday
And I don't understand how rich people don't want that. Like how you could have billions of dollars and just sit around and say, wow, you guys are really suffering.
00:53:09.82
Lyric _they_them_
Well.
00:53:12.43
wednesdayleefriday
That sucks. So anyway, I built a new rocket. i
00:53:16.37
Lyric _they_them_
ah Well, I think you have to do deplorable things to accumulate that much money, so...
00:53:19.82
wednesdayleefriday
Well, not necessarily. You can just have deplorable parents who accumulate it for you and then you can turn around and be decent.
00:53:23.63
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah, that's true.
00:53:26.77
Lyric _they_them_
Well, I think you've got their generational trauma, you know, unfortunately. You know, they they might rub up on ya.
00:53:30.77
wednesdayleefriday
Well, I mean, obviously I'm not going to get out on a tear because I don't know if you know this about me, but I spent like 30 years thinking Don Jr.
00:53:32.59
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
00:53:38.77
wednesdayleefriday
was like a decent person who was swimming against a tide of fuckery.
00:53:40.98
Lyric _they_them_
Oh no. Oh, it's okay.
00:53:43.04
wednesdayleefriday
Yeah.
00:53:43.22
Lyric _they_them_
I used to think Elon Musk was awesome once upon a time and you know, we we all, we all, you know, it's like, oh, dang.
00:53:46.40
wednesdayleefriday
Well, yeah. I think the Henry Ford analogy for him is is just perfect. It's like, yeah, we used to think he was Henry Ford, like inventing shit and being cool, but no, he's like Henry Ford, just a big, dumb Nazi. like ah Because yes, you can be brilliant and still an asshole. And that's a shame, Neil Gaiman.
00:54:10.43
wednesdayleefriday
um h Sorry, I had something horrible stuck in my throat. um
00:54:19.25
wednesdayleefriday
So moving on, um, I actually wanted to talk about polyamory a little bit. I don't talk about this on the show very much, but after my aforementioned illness, um, and a work project, I'm um a sex writer when I'm not, you know, doing this sort of thing. I, uh, I went on Ashley Madison for a while just to see what it was like. I was planning to write a piece about it, which I did. And it's hilarious. You should all check it out over at Kinkly. Um, but, uh,
00:54:48.35
wednesdayleefriday
I just wanted to see what was up. I heard it was like a den of cheaters and it was going to all be awful. And that's kind of what I figured. And I was wondering if it was like, if there was a way to have fun doing it, if it could be good for self-esteem.
00:55:01.70
wednesdayleefriday
And, ah you know, long story short, I just started cyber dating and I talked to the husband about it and was like, well, this is what I'm thinking of doing.
00:55:12.35
wednesdayleefriday
Is this an okay thing for me to be doing? And he was like, yeah, you live in your best life.
00:55:15.40
Lyric _they_them_
Nice.
00:55:18.26
wednesdayleefriday
Do the thing! so so So I'm doing the thing.
00:55:20.17
Lyric _they_them_
Do the thing.
00:55:22.92
wednesdayleefriday
I've become a cyber-dom and I am just topping dudes all over the place and it is so fucking fun.
00:55:28.85
Lyric _they_them_
I love that.
00:55:29.29
wednesdayleefriday
So now that I've revealed that about myself, right? but And it's so unlike me. Like for someone who is a sex writer, I was like startlingly vanilla and I married a guy who is even more vanilla than me.
00:55:42.47
wednesdayleefriday
And then, you know, now that I'm kind of, people call me middle age, I'm almost the same age as old people, which is very weird. um But yeah, I'm, ah um I have this, what the hell was I waiting for?
00:55:58.83
wednesdayleefriday
ah attitude toward life of like, well, why not do it if like, as far as sex things in theory, if we're talking about consenting adults, you know, that are giving like informed consent, nobody's lying, the rest of it isn't really anybody else's business.
00:56:15.40
wednesdayleefriday
You know, so, and and that's obviously, that's trickier on Ashley Madison because there are married people there.
00:56:16.42
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
00:56:22.74
wednesdayleefriday
Like I'm a married people and I'm there. So it's, it can be harder to find people that are not being deceitful, but they're there. A lot of, a lot of open marriages and poly marriages and recently divorced or in the process of a divorce, people are there.
00:56:38.70
wednesdayleefriday
Um. And one thing I'm wondering is that like, it's hard for me to gauge whether I'm just hearing more about polyamory and alternative sex and open marriages and stuff. Like if I'm just hearing more about it because of the kind of work I do, or if it really is like becoming much more popular than it used to be and people are talking about it more. What is your take on that?
00:57:04.36
Lyric _they_them_
You know, I don't know. I feel like it's hard to have always been here because I knew I was this way even when I was young before I had a word like to describe it. Like I knew I was able to be attracted to multiple people at the same time. And I thought it was BS that this was like something that was forbidden and not allowed. Like even, you know, you know once I so was you know able to start feeling attractions for other people.
00:57:30.77
Lyric _they_them_
And so, you know, that was many years ago when I was i was a teenager. And then the other the other thing is like, you know, there's there's different things like there's there's open relationships and then there's, you know, there's polyamory where, you know, you're You're looking to potentially form different yeah levels of relationships with people that that may or may not be sexual, may or may not be intimate in that way, but also can be not can be much more than that, can be like falling in love and having multiple like partners you are truly in love with.
00:58:02.06
wednesdayleefriday
Mm hmm.
00:58:06.00
Lyric _they_them_
And so, like, I love being polyamorous. ah Being monogamous just doesn't logically make sense to me, but it's also like you have to realize it is something that will really challenge you and make you face all your demons.
00:58:19.01
wednesdayleefriday
Yeah.
00:58:22.56
Lyric _they_them_
it You know, if it's a din of cheaters and liars, that's not really doing it right. You know, there's honesty and openness, like my partner and I, like, we share
00:58:29.47
wednesdayleefriday
Yeah.
00:58:32.34
Lyric _they_them_
everything. like we We share our feelings, we share our insecurities. I share like when I'm triggered by something and we we talk about it and we work it out together. like If we're not able to like express and communicate like our needs and what's going on and we're hiding and we're withholding like feelings or things that are happening from one another, like it's not good. It's not going to work ah But when we are, ah like, you know, you think about like the people you're around, like influence your life. And so like if your partner has partners that make them a better person, like that comes home into your relationship.
00:59:15.88
wednesdayleefriday
Mm-hmm.
00:59:16.06
Lyric _they_them_
and like You know, if like I, my partner and I, and my, you know, if I've had partners in the past, like I date people who have similar values to me.
00:59:17.62
wednesdayleefriday
Yep.
00:59:27.43
Lyric _they_them_
Right.
00:59:27.46
wednesdayleefriday
Mm-hmm.
00:59:27.71
Lyric _they_them_
And so my partner will date people that have similar values to them. And so it's also a nice way to build a little community because like.
00:59:34.38
wednesdayleefriday
Sure, yeah.
00:59:35.49
Lyric _they_them_
your partners can have really cool partners that, you know, even if you're not dating your partner's partners, they might be cool people you want to hang out with sometimes. And so like, it's a different way of thinking about things.
00:59:45.70
Lyric _they_them_
And instead of like, thinking about things like being jealous, and like, it's being happy for your partner.
00:59:49.69
wednesdayleefriday
Well, that's the thing that a lot of people I think can understand having crushes or being interested in a lot of different people, but accepting and not being jealous when your partner is doing that, I think is the stumbling block for a lot of people, which is why non-poly people get into these situations where people cheat, but they expect their partner to not cheat.
01:00:15.54
Lyric _they_them_
Mm hmm.
01:00:16.49
wednesdayleefriday
What I've actually found talking to a lot of poly ah people is that that community is far less tolerant of cheating than hetero people are.
01:00:27.01
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah, it's about honesty.
01:00:28.39
wednesdayleefriday
right a Cheating is much, much more likely to end a poly relationship because, I mean, to be kind of blunt, the lies are less necessary under under the right circumstances because
01:00:37.74
Lyric _they_them_
Mm hmm.
01:00:43.12
wednesdayleefriday
I mean, even taking sex out of the equation, we don't get everything we need out of life from one person, you know? H, my husband isn't gonna like, he doesn't want to watch every movie I want to watch.
01:00:51.43
Lyric _they_them_
yeah
01:00:55.86
wednesdayleefriday
He doesn't want to go to every restaurant I want to go to. You know, we're not going to read all the same books and discuss them. Like I, you know, that's why we have friendships.
01:01:06.21
wednesdayleefriday
That's why we, you know, keep in touch with our families and like just, you know, go on the internet. Like we need a lot of different kinds of interactions to be full and complete people.
01:01:12.46
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah. Yeah.
01:01:16.89
wednesdayleefriday
And sometimes they're sexual and sometimes they're not.
01:01:16.96
Lyric _they_them_
And see now? Yeah. And see for me, it's like, for polyamory, it's like, I have all of, I'm open to all of these, you know, friendships and relationships.
01:01:27.65
Lyric _they_them_
Uh, and they start as friendships and, you know, they could maybe develop into more. They could not. And I'm open to the possibility of that. And if it doesn't, it's also no big deal.
01:01:38.57
Lyric _they_them_
And then, you know, the people I'm with, I'm not with them, you know, then you aren't with someone because of necessity, scarcity.
01:01:45.88
wednesdayleefriday
Right.
01:01:47.83
Lyric _they_them_
You're with them because you actually want to be with them.
01:01:51.07
wednesdayleefriday
One thing that I did not really expect, but that makes so much sense, you know, if you think about it, is that when I was dating before I met my husband, I did not like dating. I did not. I was always really reticent to meet new people, especially when you do like internet dating, where you talk to someone online for a while, and then there's this big like bomb drop when you meet them in person. And it's you know just like oh my god the what if they think i'm ugly what if they they don't like fat chicks what if you know all these different things and when every bad date makes you feel like oh no i'm gonna be alone forever this sucks i don't deserve love or companionship like
01:02:32.15
wednesdayleefriday
and dating when you already have a husband, who I am so discerning now. I'm like way much I have such a ah clearer sense of like, what I will accept what my boundaries are, what I'm looking for, what works for me, what doesn't.
01:02:40.46
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
01:02:49.48
wednesdayleefriday
And I'm just seeing the way that I react to certain kinds of come ons, or certain kinds of interactions that like, When I was in my 20s, I had no self-esteem. And I was so terrified because I had gotten no contact with my family of origin. And I was so terrified that I was just going to be like alone and family-less forever. So every date was like, yep, see, I suck. No one will ever love me. And once you take that out of ah out of the equation, that like fear of of never finding your right person,
01:03:25.69
wednesdayleefriday
Everything is so much easier and more fun because there's no worry at the end of it. There's no sense of like, well, if this doesn't work, there are going to be terrible consequences.
01:03:36.76
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah, and then also like and it kind of enforces the idea that you know there's not just one right person out there either.
01:03:43.48
wednesdayleefriday
Yep.
01:03:44.34
Lyric _they_them_
you know ah But it was just a totally different way to think about it. like It's kind of funny. like My partner and I will watch movies and we'll just be like, you know if they were in a polyamorous relationship, this this whole movie would have no plot.
01:03:58.61
wednesdayleefriday
yeah
01:03:58.88
Lyric _they_them_
And it applies to so many scenarios. Polyamory, I'm just saying that this movie wouldn't, there'd be no problem here now.
01:04:06.13
wednesdayleefriday
The notebook could be 10 minutes long. Oh, you met another dude? He seems great. Let's hang out. Yeah, that yeah the I think the Hallmark channel and the Lifetime network would both be pretty decimated by a by widespread polyamory. They have a lot invested in ah jealousy in relationships. um I actually have a theory, I'm going to run it by you actually, and that is that neurodivergent people are more likely to pursue less mainstream forms of relationships and and sexuality and sexual expression because they're more used to re-examining societal norms and looking at them objectively and then choosing what works and what doesn't.
01:04:52.71
wednesdayleefriday
am Am I on to something?
01:04:55.42
Lyric _they_them_
I work checks out in my case personally, ah you know, and and that's, but here's, here's, here's the way I put it. Like I've described something very similarly that like for me, like I've,
01:05:09.19
Lyric _they_them_
Even when I wanted to blend in, I never blend in. Like, never. My whole life.
01:05:12.72
wednesdayleefriday
yeah
01:05:13.20
Lyric _they_them_
Like, I've always stood out. So, you know, for someone else who blends in more easily, like, maybe they could have been normal, air quotes, but I've always been thought of as strange or weird, like, that, that, you know, and I was like, I hate that.
01:05:27.65
Lyric _they_them_
They're using weird to describe trumpers, because I'm like, weird was, weird was, how dare you?
01:05:30.71
wednesdayleefriday
How dare you? How dare you? That is our word.
01:05:33.05
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah. year yeah it makes me really annoyed but like so i was like i'm a proud weirdo you know and like i never had this shield of normalcy so like being queer like i was already air quotes weird queer is like strange right it's literally what the word means like so used to mean strange and it was like i've always been kind of strange so like just being queer and like you know not following
01:05:53.68
wednesdayleefriday
Right.
01:06:00.55
Lyric _they_them_
these other norms was easy for me. But then also being autistic, me like like by definition, we don't fit neatly into the social norms.
01:06:09.70
wednesdayleefriday
Yep, yep.
01:06:10.74
Lyric _they_them_
And so like all social constructs bog me down. And I don't know if that's an autism thing or not because it's like, it's not just like gender roles and and relationship roles and monogamy and and all that.
01:06:21.95
Lyric _they_them_
And it's also like clocks and time changes and money and like all of the social constructs.
01:06:24.02
wednesdayleefriday
Small talk.
01:06:28.82
Lyric _they_them_
I'm like, I hate you all. burn all the social constructs to the ground, social hierarchies, all of it.
01:06:33.17
wednesdayleefriday
Yeah.
01:06:34.76
Lyric _they_them_
Like, why do we have to work?
01:06:37.42
wednesdayleefriday
Well, so many social constructs are based in deception.
01:06:41.41
Lyric _they_them_
Don't make sense.
01:06:43.95
wednesdayleefriday
you know Like if your boss says, hey, how are you you? You aren't allowed to tell him how you actually are because he's not really asking. He's not so he's not asking the question that he just said.
01:06:54.82
wednesdayleefriday
You know, that, that sort of thing that people will ask you things they don't want to know the answer to, especially in, uh, in customer service situations, you know, like, well, why are you out of this?
01:07:03.50
Lyric _they_them_
Oh, yeah.
01:07:07.18
wednesdayleefriday
Well, we're out of it because Oprah told people to get it. And every household, every housewife in the world came here to buy that, that product. And that's why we're out of it.
01:07:17.58
wednesdayleefriday
Well, why are you telling me your problems? Well, ma'am, you literally came in and asked me why we were out of it. So I'm telling you, if you just want to complain that we're out of it, do that.
01:07:29.23
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
01:07:29.29
wednesdayleefriday
Don't pretend that you're requesting information and then get mad when I give it to you, you know? And like a lot of people would not have to deconstruct that exchange.
01:07:34.06
Lyric _they_them_
here
01:07:38.42
wednesdayleefriday
They would just get it. But it's a social contract that it's like, oh, so you're, you're lying.
01:07:40.89
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
01:07:43.98
wednesdayleefriday
You're completely full of shit. And yet somehow I'm the bad guy in the scenario. Yeah, maybe this isn't the right job for me. and so so yeah i think I think Podcaster is a better job for me than ah than Whole Foods' ah return desk person.
01:08:00.47
Lyric _they_them_
You've got a good podcast voice.
01:08:00.61
wednesdayleefriday
it does not It does not pay as well, though. I don't actually make an hourly rate for this.
01:08:03.30
Lyric _they_them_
No.
01:08:06.70
wednesdayleefriday
Luckily, it's it's like super fun.
01:08:06.73
Lyric _they_them_
But it's fun.
01:08:08.42
wednesdayleefriday
right
01:08:09.16
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah, this is fun.
01:08:09.54
wednesdayleefriday
um so The next question is kind of a tricky one. And this is a question that we only ask ah with permission, which we have.
01:08:18.71
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
01:08:19.64
wednesdayleefriday
um But I would like for you to talk about a time in your life when you felt that your life was being threatened and you found it to be a believable and credible threat.
01:08:29.97
Lyric _they_them_
yeah So, you know, I'm no stranger to bad relationships, which is why I've done a lot of work in my recent life, especially since finding I'm autistic, like thinking more carefully about the kinds of relationships, you know, I'm in and just physical and emotional safety and relationships and things like that. But, you know, when I was, how old was I? Probably around 18 or so, i would you know, yeah almost adult, young adult, 18, 19.
01:09:00.36
Lyric _they_them_
I don't know. I'm bad with numbers. So around that age, my my high school partner, who I had tried to leave, um basically told me they weren't going to leave.
01:09:02.76
wednesdayleefriday
Okay.
01:09:14.85
Lyric _they_them_
um And so they told me that they would harm themselves and make sure I found the body if I left them.
01:09:24.52
wednesdayleefriday
Oh, God.
01:09:26.17
Lyric _they_them_
And so I was like, fine, you stay, but i I'm mentally, I'm not in this anymore, but I'm just like, fine, just whatever. And I was just living there with this person. And they didn't use words, but like they were, like every time, like like they were like sit everywhere, like you would see like places they would sit in the house or like where they would sleep in the bed, like like the places they would hang out, like by their computer desk, their place on the couch, like their place in the bed.
01:09:52.66
Lyric _they_them_
you would find like like when when they weren't there I would find knives just like stashed like in the cushion of the couch next to where they sit like big knives and like under the pillow in the bed and like in the drawer on the computer.
01:09:59.79
wednesdayleefriday
Oh god.
01:10:03.54
Lyric _they_them_
like just like every So I just you know I just stopped being in the house for a while and living in my car for a few months and then eventually he got bored and left me for somebody else ah and so I was like fine don't come back and He came back and stole all my stuff, but then I got the locks changed and he he wanted to come back eventually, but it was like, no, absolutely not.
01:10:19.25
wednesdayleefriday
Aww.
01:10:25.31
Lyric _they_them_
And he didn't come back. And so it was like, finally he left. It was like the best thing that happened, but it was just like, like a he didn't have to use words, but it was very, you know, very menacing the entire time.
01:10:37.05
Lyric _they_them_
Just like a tense, just situation where it was like, you know, you you don't feel like you can be home in your own home.
01:10:44.28
wednesdayleefriday
were Was there anyone that you were able to tell while this was going on?
01:10:44.48
Lyric _they_them_
You know?
01:10:48.05
Lyric _they_them_
I just really didn't know how to handle it. And I also didn't think it was anyone else's responsibility to deal with it. You know, I don't know, like I, I wasn't the same person I am today. This was like, you know, years before my autism diagnosis. And back then, like I was, I almost didn't even think my needs mattered really. And that like, that
01:11:12.23
Lyric _they_them_
That like, I was just kind of this punching bag for everybody else's feelings. You know, I could take it. I could take it. I could take it. I can take what anyone can dish out. And I just thought that was normal. I didn't realize that that was unhealthy. And that relationship was really toxic the entire time we were together. It was volatile. It was toxic. It was violent. There was lots of screaming. There was, you know, it was, it was a bad situation, but Just it didn't register outside of normalcy for me, not having the reference that that was toxic that I know now.
01:11:40.75
wednesdayleefriday
um
01:11:44.52
wednesdayleefriday
Wow. Wow. What what i'm I'm really um noticing is the the but potential relationship between you not being able to get tested when you were younger and growing up to feel like your feelings and needs were not as important as as other people's.
01:12:03.23
Lyric _they_them_
Oh, yeah.
01:12:06.13
wednesdayleefriday
Because that, that really is, I mean, and I think like I have a hard time parsing like the the commonality of like how, how much that happens.
01:12:06.31
Lyric _they_them_
Oh yeah.
01:12:16.24
wednesdayleefriday
Cause my parents we're were not good. I mean, they, there was like physical violence, there was emotional, uh, you know, violence. and And so, but, but I hear from people that have parents who mean well, like they're really trying their best and they're not violent and they're not, you know,
01:12:34.87
wednesdayleefriday
Like they they do care about their kids' well-being and yet there's still stuff like this. Like that's that's a big ball drop when people say your kid needs to be tested and you decide that you don't even want the information.
01:12:50.21
wednesdayleefriday
You know, which which is, you know, not to besmirch anyone, but that in in retrospect, it seems like
01:12:50.57
Lyric _they_them_
yeah
01:12:58.60
wednesdayleefriday
ah you You could have had a much easier time had you had information sooner. when When I was growing up, they wanted me tested for certain things, but they didn't know how ADHD presented in girls.
01:13:09.41
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
01:13:10.43
wednesdayleefriday
They didn't know that it was it was different.
01:13:10.63
Lyric _they_them_
Mm hmm.
01:13:12.92
wednesdayleefriday
So even if I had been appropriately tested, there's a good chance that I would not have been properly diagnosed. But what you describe, I think is extremely common, this idea of yeah I mean, you know, like the the meme with the dog and everything's on fire.
01:13:30.28
wednesdayleefriday
Like, well, but I'm not burning myself personally.
01:13:30.32
Lyric _they_them_
yeah
01:13:33.86
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
01:13:34.84
wednesdayleefriday
I don't want to call any attention to this and then have people see that I'm not on fire. um And it's it's so like, I mean, if if there was, I think,
01:13:44.50
Lyric _they_them_
I became the master of disassociation.
01:13:48.47
wednesdayleefriday
Right? Right? And the thing is that, like, as a society, a lot of us are doing that right now. We're kind of backing off, you know, like there are these terrible people doing awful things and we're not even getting angry about them. I mean, you know, the Orange Menace just admitted that, yes, he did interfere with the election and he thinks he had a right to And instead of them like slapping handcuffs on him and taking him away, we all just look at each other and say, wow, that's, that sure is illegal. Boy, and somebody should probably do something about that. Wasn't there a guy Merrick something, you know? but And, and we, but there are just these wide swaths of people. And I'm one of them that just look at this and say, wow, that is, that's terrible.
01:14:38.39
wednesdayleefriday
I don't feel like it would do any good to speak up about it because we're also pretty powerless. And there are a lot of people that have a lot invested in making sure that people in our class feel powerless.
01:14:54.35
wednesdayleefriday
you know
01:14:54.60
Lyric _they_them_
Sad.
01:14:55.44
wednesdayleefriday
I mean, for how long did did businesses in general want to impart to us how lucky we are to have jobs?
01:14:55.62
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
01:15:02.42
wednesdayleefriday
I mean, that's a remnant from like the Great Depression. Aren't you glad you can come in here and slave away for pennies while we make money off your labor? And we say, well, yeah, because then I'll get to have oatmeal for dinner.
01:15:11.90
Lyric _they_them_
Hmm.
01:15:15.98
wednesdayleefriday
you know like and and that's ah And so now we have this thing happening in society where millennials and and younger are really reevaluating, like, hey, we did everything that we were told to do, and we're still fucked.
01:15:32.31
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
01:15:32.85
wednesdayleefriday
And not only that, but boomers who had everything like given to them for the asking, you know if you were a boomer, hard work often did result in prosperity, and now it doesn't.
01:15:33.60
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
01:15:44.49
Lyric _they_them_
yeah
01:15:45.18
wednesdayleefriday
and they haven't figured that out. So ah just just this whole concept of of like, well, let's look at this again and see how we can do better. And even though it makes people angry, I see people like you out there saying, yeah, let's grab this shit by the horns. Let's distill it down to actionable information and and get it out to people.
01:16:11.22
wednesdayleefriday
And that's the kind of thing that is going to make a difference.
01:16:11.49
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah.
01:16:13.98
wednesdayleefriday
You know, it's slow growth for sure, but slow growth is is still growth.
01:16:16.94
Lyric _they_them_
Oh yeah.
01:16:19.85
wednesdayleefriday
You know, all growth started out slow and small.
01:16:20.29
Lyric _they_them_
Mmhmm.
01:16:23.46
wednesdayleefriday
So, so yeah, so that I just, I, I'm really excited. That's like one of the reasons I was so excited to have you on is because I knew that you would have a lot of actionable content for, for people that, uh, you know, things that, that, uh,
01:16:41.33
wednesdayleefriday
you know, like like your book, just things that that ah people can take away and apply that will improve their life and improve the lives of those around them. So um was there anything that you wanted to talk about that I did not bring up?
01:16:56.25
Lyric _they_them_
No, this was really thorough. I appreciate it.
01:16:58.56
wednesdayleefriday
Cool, right on. Well, I also want to give guests a chance to ask me a question if they have one. So if you do, now is the time.
01:17:07.37
Lyric _they_them_
Gosh. And now I don't because i'm on like I'm on the spot and I don't have one.
01:17:11.33
wednesdayleefriday
Oh, I'm not very interesting.
01:17:11.89
Lyric _they_them_
I'm sorry.
01:17:12.51
wednesdayleefriday
It's cool.
01:17:13.19
Lyric _they_them_
No, you are interesting. But now my brain just went blank. I'm worried that my partner's going to get home in a minute and the dogs are going to start barking really loud.
01:17:21.03
wednesdayleefriday
Oh, yikes. Okay. Well, you know what? Let's actually um get to the Mad Lib because I love the Mad Lib and it's time. Are you familiar with Mad Libs?
01:17:28.81
Lyric _they_them_
yeah
01:17:29.49
wednesdayleefriday
Okay, cool. Um, now it's interesting because, uh, this is the second time actually that I've had to alter the Mad Lib to make it appropriate for the guest because Mad Libs do sometimes refer to ah binary, you know, they'll say person in the room man or person in the room woman.
01:17:36.39
Lyric _they_them_
Yeah. Uh-oh.
01:17:44.71
Lyric _they_them_
Mm.
01:17:47.43
Lyric _they_them_
Mm-hmm.
01:17:48.00
wednesdayleefriday
So I'm actually going to reach out to Mad Libs about that. And, uh, I'm sure I wouldn't be the first, but, uh, like, Hey, Hey, I use you on my show Mad Libs and I need you to do better.
01:17:59.85
wednesdayleefriday
What's that? It's illegal to use you on my show? Well, then, okay, I have to go now.
01:18:02.54
Lyric _they_them_
Oh, no.
01:18:06.64
wednesdayleefriday
but My name is Mark Marin. Please have my show canceled. um All right. So we're going to need a bunch of adjectives first. Let's see. One, two, three, four, five, six adjectives.
01:18:21.65
Lyric _they_them_
ah Exciting, bold, strong, creative. How many is that? fun, festive. Is that six?
01:18:33.74
wednesdayleefriday
Yeah.
01:18:38.33
wednesdayleefriday
All right. And I need, let's see, one, two, three singular nouns.
01:18:47.26
Lyric _they_them_
um Cat, sofa, and the bus.
01:18:58.55
wednesdayleefriday
okay and one of these is person in room so that will be you because that's always the guest uh and let's see i need a plural noun a number actually i need three numbers for some reason that's a lot of numbers for a mad lib
01:19:11.84
Lyric _they_them_
Hats. Eight.
01:19:20.27
Lyric _they_them_
ah Uh, four eight three.
01:19:28.91
wednesdayleefriday
That's great because I do have yuck yucks who come on here and want to give me like an eight digit number with a decimal point. yeah ah We also need some places. One, two, three places.
01:19:41.41
Lyric _they_them_
uh texas the moon um the beach hairstylist
01:19:51.81
wednesdayleefriday
And finally, I need an occupation.
01:20:06.65
wednesdayleefriday
OK, scribble, scribble. So there we have it. um ah This is called MASH. And I don't know why it's called that. ah Congratulations. According to MASH, the ultimate sleepover game, your future looks bright and exciting. Well, okay. When you are eight years old, you will meet the person of your hats at the Texas. yeah Their name will be Lyric and you will have a bold wedding where you will go to the moon on your strong honeymoon. When you return, you will move into a creative bus at the beach.
01:20:48.68
Lyric _they_them_
that's funny
01:20:51.13
wednesdayleefriday
Then, when you have been married for four years, you will have your first sofa. Aw, so cute. You will go on to have three more children and work as a hair stylist until you retire and move to a tropical cat.
01:21:07.25
wednesdayleefriday
Your mashed future looks prosperous and festive, so prepare to enjoy it. Wow, that's probably the most uplifting one we've had in some time.
01:21:14.98
Lyric _they_them_
just nice
01:21:17.78
wednesdayleefriday
Yeah.
01:21:20.33
wednesdayleefriday
Well, Lyric, I am so glad that you could be here. This was super fun and informative. um ah You have anything you want to say to listeners before we go?
01:21:32.44
Lyric _they_them_
Just thank you everyone for your time. If you stuck around here, listen to me ramble that long. Oh my gosh.
01:21:37.41
wednesdayleefriday
ah Right on.
01:21:37.83
Lyric _they_them_
Thank you.
01:21:38.96
wednesdayleefriday
And we are going to have ah links into the description for your website and your book. I want to remind everybody that we are sponsored by Sometimes Hilarious Horror magazine and that you can find us on Ko-Fi slash Sometimes Hilarious Horror.
01:21:56.04
wednesdayleefriday
And we're also open for submissions for the October issue. um Cause yeah, we still have some slots open for your sometimes hilarious horror. So if you got some, send it our way and we will see everybody next week.
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